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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #1  
Old 03-04-2014, 03:34 PM
IhateBMW IhateBMW is offline
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SCR Tank fix options

My first post here comes as a jaded car owner and forum user, so I must apologize in advance for the tone I'm sure to use.

So, according to the rude guy at the local BMW dealer, my 2010 335d needs a new SCR tank which will run me $2400 for the part and installation. They offered no other options.

This is clearly a sensor issue in the tank. BMW, I guess going off years of data proving their sensors are extremely reliable (sarcasm) decided to make the sensors irreplaceable (apparently) and requires the whole tank be replaced in this situation.

Now, I'm sure everyone reading this knows that DEF is not at all crucial to the performance of the car, but is a component in the line of the exhaust that virtually eliminates the NOx coming out the car's ass. You might think this sounds a lot like a catalytic converter, as it uses NH3 as a catalyst to convert the NOx into N2 and H2O. But alas, this is not the case. According to BMW and our Gubment (THANKS OBAMAS!!!) a catalytic converter only counts as one if it's a part that couldn't ever really fail anyway due to no mechanical or electrical components. Due to this, it is only required to cover a 2 year/24,000 mile warranty, rather than the far more sensical 8 year/80,000 mile warranty a "real" catalytic converter would be required to use. (Yes, I know this has nothing to do with Obama, just give this one to me)

All this adds up to a broken sensor somewhere in the tank, which to properly replace would cost me $800 and a long Sunday afternoon (or $2400 + loaner costs at the gaudy BMW dealer that was just shocked (SHOCKED!) that I wouldn't just leave the car with them under these circumstances).

In my searches, I found nothing to my liking, but I'm hoping some of the knowledgeable and helpful folks in this forum could offer some advice. My options right now are:

1 (preferred option). Trick the sensors. Now, I know all of you just let out a collective gasp that could be heard on the ISS despite the lack of sufficient atmosphere between here and there. But, I don't think it's right for Obama to disable my car, which I need, due to a sensor that will cost me a significant amount of money to fix. Also, it's fun to fight 'the man'. Any information about the pin-outs and expected readings would be just super grand.

2. Replace the sensors. It doesn't look like this will be possible as the sensors seem to be one with the tank. But throwing it out there in case anyone does have info on that.

3. Replace the tank myself. Looks like I can get one for $800, maybe less if I go to a junkyard, and it looks easy to replace, but if anyone has any how-to information, tips, or links to a manual would be great. I was going to buy a shop manual, but I don't see any out there that I felt guaranteed they'd have information on how to replace the SCR tank anyway, as they seem to be E90 generic.

I know, I'm asking for information without offering anything in return so I'm in no position to make demands. I do implore you though, if you don't have anything useful to add, please do not reply. In my search for information related to this issue, I had to scroll through pages of replies that simply caused my eyes to recede into my brain until I passed out, only to awaken later, tied to a table, getting an endoscopy from a grey.

Last edited by IhateBMW; 03-04-2014 at 03:37 PM.
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  #2  
Old 03-04-2014, 05:52 PM
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fun2drive fun2drive is offline
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You might read this thread and make your own conclusion. Mine is that there is probably an issue with your DEF level sensor and if was my car I would do a couple things. Fill the tank as full as possible after siphoning the tank dry and refilling with water and doing the same thing to try and clean the tank out.
Also not the poster that mentioned that the 2010 does list the SCR as emissions warranted.
Good read and good luck...
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...=626953&page=2
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  #3  
Old 03-05-2014, 09:26 AM
IhateBMW IhateBMW is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fun2drive View Post
You might read this thread and make your own conclusion. Mine is that there is probably an issue with your DEF level sensor and if was my car I would do a couple things. Fill the tank as full as possible after siphoning the tank dry and refilling with water and doing the same thing to try and clean the tank out.
Also not the poster that mentioned that the 2010 does list the SCR as emissions warranted.
Good read and good luck...
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...=626953&page=2
Ah thanks. Good idea, I read up on ammonia crystallization and it seems flushing with warm water may just do the trick. I'll report back once I do that.

I gave my best at causing a scene at the BMW dealer, but to no avail on the warranty coverage. They insist it's only covered by the 2/24 no matter how many articles of clothing I strip off.
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  #4  
Old 03-05-2014, 10:32 AM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Annoying, to say the least. Especially since the "C" in "SCR" stands for Catalytic.

There's a good chance a flush with water will, at least for a time, fix the problem. I seem to recall someone - maybe it was on a new F3x - that was able to replace the sensor, but I'm unable to find the thread.

Too bad you're in TX; if you were in the 13-state California emissions consortium you'd be covered to 7/70.
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  #5  
Old 03-07-2014, 02:14 PM
rmeltz rmeltz is offline
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Oh boy - I've been down this road - TWICE ! My 2010 335d, at 56,000 miles had a sensor in the tank go bad. They replaced the whole tank under the extended emissions warranty (which is 70k in CA I believe). Around 3,000 miles later, I had a puddle of DEF fluid on the garage floor at both work and home. I noticed both puddles only after my Low DEF warning light lit up. At the dealer, they replaced the tank again (this time it took THREE weeks to wait for it to arrive from Germany). Thankfully I was in a loaner car the whole time. I can't offer any thoughts here - just sharing one of MANY experiences (which include carbon buildup, blocked fuel injectors, a cracked intake manifold and driving almost a year with my SES light on more than out).
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  #6  
Old 06-08-2014, 11:12 AM
IhateBMW IhateBMW is offline
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Finally was forced by Obama to address this issue so I'm resurrecting it. I'm curious how others have extracted old DEF from their systems. I can't get a tube into the filler ports (my tubes are too big), and the caps on the service ports illustrated in the SI B 16 01 09 DEF Extraction and Refill bulletin don't seem to come off with brute force.

On a side note, I was able to determine the passive tank level sensor is my issue. It's hard to access though, so I'm wondering if anyone know where to get a wiring diagram for the DEF system? There's an assortment of wires near the service ports, and I'm hoping all the sensors lead there. But I have no way to know right now. It would also be nice to know acceptable ranges for those sensors. All of this is documented in the service shops. I had an easier time getting ahold of a Ferrari SD3 than anything resembling a shop manual for the 335d.

TL;DR - I need to know how to extract DEF from the tanks (Tiny hose through filler port or how to get the service port caps off without destroying them). Also, I need information on the DEF system wiring and sensor readings.

Thanks!
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  #7  
Old 10-27-2014, 06:09 PM
touareg$$$ touareg$$$ is offline
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There is a recall for the DEF tank. I experienced a temperature related failure. I complained to BMW NA without success but asked them to elevate the problem. A year later the recall was released. Contact your dealer.
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  #8  
Old 03-09-2015, 06:54 AM
curiousgeorge curiousgeorge is offline
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IhateBMW - how did you resolve the problem? I am seeing the same issue with my 2010 X5. Local BMW dealer is quoting $2,190 to replace the passive tank. I was thinking of doing it myself. Any suggestion, tips, etc?
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  #9  
Old 03-09-2015, 07:23 AM
touareg$$$ touareg$$$ is offline
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DEF Tank Sensor

The DEF sensor has no effect on the car emissions. You can just ignore it. Mine went out when the outside temperature went above 60 degrees. This winter has been very cold so expect many people are experiencing the sensor fault.

I can't answer for your dealer but mine found the recall notice and replaced the tank. Try another dealer if you don't get any satisfaction.

Have you had your intake passages walnut blasted yet? This is another issue with the diesel. The design of the EGR system allows carbon to build up at the intake valves. Save your pennies for this one. I was surprise when BMW Germany offered to do the repair for free. They were going to send some engineers to examine the intakes but that never occurred. For me this was the last straw and I sold the 335d. I bought a M235i and it is way more fun to drive.
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  #10  
Old 03-09-2015, 07:26 AM
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need4speed need4speed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousgeorge View Post
ihatebmw - how did you resolve the problem? I am seeing the same issue with my 2010 x5. Local bmw dealer is quoting $2,190 to replace the passive tank. I was thinking of doing it myself. Any suggestion, tips, etc?
+1
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  #11  
Old 03-09-2015, 08:05 AM
curiousgeorge curiousgeorge is offline
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I was under the impression the recall was only for the active tank. Do you have the recall number handy by chance?
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  #12  
Old 03-09-2015, 08:19 AM
touareg$$$ touareg$$$ is offline
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The active and passive tanks are a single assembly. Don't let the dealer BS you. I don't have the recall number. When I sold my 335d I tossed the paperwork.
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  #13  
Old 06-29-2015, 11:39 AM
clark.stanfill clark.stanfill is offline
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Going through the same thing with my 2010. I bought it used and out of warranty (I know, stupid idea on a German), but managed to yell at them enough to bring the total cost of part/install to about $600. From what I can tell that's pretty good. Would be curious to know how difficult it is to do by yourself.

Also, bought the car on 6/13 brought it back to the dealership on 6/18 and I've been waiting on the part now since about 6/23 with no end in sight. I used to work for an Audi dealership and I have to say, so far the customer service provided there is much better than I've experienced with my dealership here. I think they need to replace the whole thing with no cost to me seeing as I didn't even get the car home from the dealership before the SES light turned on... depending on how long they make me wait to get the part, I'll have to re-open this conversation with them...
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  #14  
Old 07-30-2015, 06:44 PM
SpeedyD SpeedyD is offline
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Any update on this? Was anyone able to get a resolution, or identify the recall that was mentioned above?
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  #15  
Old 09-30-2015, 11:32 AM
Addicted2Torque Addicted2Torque is offline
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It is poor engineering to make sensors in the tank that can't be replaced individually requiring the entire tank to be replaced-especially when that part is not readily available as well as needing 8 hours labor to replace!

How many of you had to do this that no tanks are available?
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  #16  
Old 09-30-2015, 11:48 AM
SpeedyD SpeedyD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Addicted2Torque View Post
It is poor engineering to make sensors in the tank that can't be replaced individually requiring the entire tank to be replaced-especially when that part is not readily available as well as needing 8 hours labor to replace!

How many of you had to do this that no tanks are available?
Not joking, it was in the high hundreds on BACK ORDER, so definitely in the thousands of vehicles affected.
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  #17  
Old 09-30-2015, 12:18 PM
clark.stanfill clark.stanfill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyD View Post
Not joking, it was in the high hundreds on BACK ORDER, so definitely in the thousands of vehicles affected.
It took over a month, but I got mine. The dealer told me 800 of them.
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  #18  
Old 11-12-2015, 07:23 PM
kvdoell kvdoell is offline
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Glad to learn I am not alone on this, though bmw na would have you think so. When I was told to call the 800 number by the dealer who is asking for $2,100 to replace my active tank and pump, bmw told me they hadn't heard of this issue. Really? With "800" tanks on back order as reported in an above thread, I think they are aware.

Waiting now for bmw to call back with an offer of assistance for the repair. I will ask about the recall mentioned above.
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  #19  
Old 11-13-2015, 09:05 AM
touareg$$$ touareg$$$ is offline
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BMW335d Issues Solved

I had a fix for my 335d issues. I traded it for a M235i X-Drive. I was at the dealer getting service for the M235 and the salesman told me my 335d sold quickly but several months ago the car started smoking and burst into flames!!!!! Imagine dealing with BMW to replace my cars and house!
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  #20  
Old 03-01-2016, 01:29 PM
murat335d murat335d is offline
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Does anyone have the recall campaign number for this. I have the P205B code for my 2011 335D at 29K miles. It says the temperature sensor is bad. I also wonder if this faulty sensor is located in the module or welded to the tank... Any help is appreciated.
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  #21  
Old 03-01-2016, 02:30 PM
montr montr is offline
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See this post for temperature sensor workaround
e_9_0_p_o_s_t.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1209238&highlight=thermistor

This is another forum, remove underscore for the correct link
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  #22  
Old Yesterday, 07:25 PM
Skirata Skirata is offline
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335d

So I found this article and the previous other forum post helpful. I work on BMWs for a living and just had my first 335D tank replacement. Exactly like everyone elses. Expensive job, not hard but I can see it is frustrating to others at home without lifts and tools. I did get some codes(Ill get the full name and maybe some descriptions tomorrow) on my test drive that maybe helpful to others.

474C-
*Gives you the 1000 mile count down to no start-top off tanks,slowly as to not overfill
*Clear code

4D02-Reducing-agent pressure buildup
*Pump related, in my experience, you can mix up the lines from the passive and active tanks to the pumps

4BB2-DeNox Cat, plausibility
*BMW test plans and info basically boil down to-Check plugs and connectors on, this is my preference, EVERY connector to EVERY sensor in the exhaust system. If they appear clean, tight, and secured, REPLACE SENSOR.

I was also reading more about the diesel systems and turns out. You shouldn't see soot in your exhaust. I dunno how true this is as I have encountered very few E90 335Ds. There is a simple way to check I will try and remember to post tomorrow.



Brass tax-If you get the temp sensor code for the DEF tanks your options are Fix or replace. Fixing isn't that bad and I have a brand new tank to compare the sensor fix resistance to, it does work out well. Just take the time, follow the E90post guide and your all set.

Fixing-I work at an indy shop and we have done this job for around $1600 for part and labor, some other various Diag and other jobs done put total cost to $1900 and 3 day turn around. Find a good one, ASK if they have done it before. Get a quote! Find another shop or two and ask what this job costs. Reason being is a lot of people find very different labor rates from different sources. To be super honest. It took me around 2.1-2.5 hours to do with filling, BMW SERVICE PROCEDURE tank level check and adaptation resets, test drive and rinse off the nasty DEF fluid.

Dont be surprised if the shop wants it for a day or two. It takes some miles for these SCR system codes to return and adapt and what not. There is not a lot in the way of research help either that isnt time intensive.

Sorry to be lengthy but I know what its like to be looking for info, cross reference, etc. and not find anything.
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  #23  
Old Yesterday, 07:51 PM
Skirata Skirata is offline
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PDFs

Found these rummaging through my BMW books.

I have a useful one on Introduction to Diesel Technology but its 20MB

I actually have a TON of BMW technical manuals on my google drive. If youd like access, PM me your email and Ill add them to a list.

List of Recalls on the 2011 BMW 335D(My job) for some helpful searching and research.(I actually have access to them all so, on demand)

OEM Number Issue Date Description
SI B16 03 10 03/01/2010 "Exhaust Fluid Low" Warning Displayed Before Oil S
SI B 16 01 09 03/01/2010 DEF Extraction and Refill
SI B16 02 10 03/01/2010 Proper Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) Level in SCR Res
SI B16 03 10 04/01/2011 "Exhaust Fluid Low" Warning Displayed Before Oil S
SI B04 19 11 11/01/2011 Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) Refractometer
SI B04 14 09 05/01/2013 Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) Extractor/Filler
SI B04 06 13 05/01/2013 Spare Parts Ordering: DEF Extraction/Fill Unit and
SI B04 19 11 04/01/2014 Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) Refractometer
SI B11 02 10 06/01/2010 E90 M57Y - Diagnosis of SCR Metering Valve for Fau
SI B18 04 12 04/01/2012 Service Action: Replace the Selective Catalyst Red
SI B18 03 12 05/01/2012 Voluntary Emissions Recall Campaign 11E-A03: Check
SI B18 02 12 06/01/2012 Voluntary Emissions Recall Campaign 11E-A03: Check
SI B18 06 12 08/01/2012 Voluntary Emissions Recall Campaign 11E-A03: Repla
SI B18 05 12 03/01/2013 Voluntary Emissions Recall Campaign 11E-A03: Check
SI B18 06 12 03/01/2013 Voluntary Emissions Recall Campaign 11E-A03: Repla
SI B01 04 10 04/01/2013 BMW Maintenance Program: Annual Low-mileage Engine
SI B16 01 14 05/01/2014 Service Action: Replace the SCR Tank
SI B13 01 14 10/01/2014 N47T and N57T Diesels with SCR Efficiency Faults S
Attached Files
File Type: pdf N57TU Engine.pdf (3.37 MB, 4 views)
File Type: pdf AdvancedDiesel with BluePerformance.pdf (3.28 MB, 3 views)

Last edited by Skirata; Yesterday at 07:54 PM.
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