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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #26  
Old 04-01-2014, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
A few comments:

1) There is far more room in the rear seat in the F30 than the E90. There is no question about this.

2) Lets pick the worst possible F30 iteration and do a test of it. Fine idea.
BMW claims the 3 sedan is a sports sedan. That doesn't hold true in the 'worst iteration of the F30'.

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Originally Posted by chiefneil View Post
Over on an MB forum somewhere in cyberspace, someone is posting that she drove her son's C63 and the suspension was so rock hard she rates it a -20 on a scale of 1-10, and that it feels like a rebadged peterbilt.
You should of heard what she said about the M3....Hated it. As did most of my family members.

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Originally Posted by the_phew View Post
The 320i can be two different vehicles, each that offers something unique in its segment:

1. An affordable, comfortable cruiser (with available AWD) that offers great fuel economy. Beats the new Audi A3 and Merc CLA in most metrics. Leases for cheaper than a loaded mainstream sedan (Camry, Accord, Mazda6, etc).

2. An affordable sport sedan (ZSP+ZMT) that offers great fuel economy. A $400 tune away from respectable performance. Leases for cheaper than other "sporty" vehicles like the GTI and WRX, while providing more room and comfort.

I chose Option 2, hoping to take delivery in May. Your mom chose Option 1, and I can't think of a better vehicle for those requirements (A4 is smaller and less efficient, Legacy is less comfortable/refined, Fusion would be the closest but has some flaws).
The problem is, in order for it to be that 'affordable sports sedan'. You'll need to tack on some options. Shouldn't the 3er be naturally sporty from the factory? That IS what the 3er was known for.
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  #27  
Old 04-01-2014, 10:30 AM
Kafkaesque320 Kafkaesque320 is offline
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Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post


The problem is, in order for it to be that 'affordable sports sedan'. You'll need to tack on some options. Shouldn't the 3er be naturally sporty from the factory? That IS what the 3er was known for.
My goal for the 320 was to keep it low on options besides the one essential option: ZSP and sunroof and thats what I got. Otherwise if its loaded up, you are $40k + and then you are in 328i territory. I wanted everything good about the 3 series with no frills. I negotiated a selling price of $4000 below MSRP for $32k and change, no cap cost reduction etc. $32k for a brand new RWD sport sedan, staggered high performance summer tires, m sport suspension, m sport steering wheel, anthracite headliner, sunroof and increase top speed limiter and my payment is $360 a month. I would argue that there is no other sedan out there on the road that drives, handles, feels or looks like my car for the money.

Saying the 3 should be 'naturally sporty' from the factory is pointless because all the 3 series start as no-line and the vast majority of 3 series I see in L.A., land of the 3 series, are no-lines with halogens on 17s and those horrid wheels. No one cares. If you care, you order the sport package and call it a day.
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You drive a 320 so pretty sure you have nothing of value to contribute.
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  #28  
Old 04-01-2014, 11:14 AM
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My goal for the 320 was to keep it low on options besides the one essential option: ZSP and sunroof and thats what I got. Otherwise if its loaded up, you are $40k + and then you are in 328i territory. I wanted everything good about the 3 series with no frills. I negotiated a selling price of $4000 below MSRP for $32k and change, no cap cost reduction etc. $32k for a brand new RWD sport sedan, staggered high performance summer tires, m sport suspension, m sport steering wheel, anthracite headliner, sunroof and increase top speed limiter and my payment is $360 a month. I would argue that there is no other sedan out there on the road that drives, handles, feels or looks like my car for the money.

Saying the 3 should be 'naturally sporty' from the factory is pointless because all the 3 series start as no-line and the vast majority of 3 series I see in L.A., land of the 3 series, are no-lines with halogens on 17s and those horrid wheels. No one cares. If you care, you order the sport package and call it a day.
I totally agree. Nobody cares and a lot of the cars are no lines and basically no options because lets be honest, people will buy it because of the badge on the back so they can gloat they own a BMW. There was one thing that separated BMW from the pack though, and that's how it felt right out of the factory. The directness, and the sportier nature of the car. What's stopping me from going and buying a Mercedes C-Class now? The 3 series in e9x form was comfortable, but I'm not going to sit here and tell you it was perfect. The car crashed in potholes, and while mid-corner bumps did upset it, it was no where near what the no line xDrive suspension is. That could of been remedied, easily I think without much cost. The point I'm trying to make is, BMW use to provide its customers with a car that really didn't need any kind of suspension tuning to make it a nice car to drive. Now, I'm not sure if the competition has caught up, or if BMW just stopped attempting to make a sporty sedan. The 320 is a great car. It's comfortable, and with the proper options, it has the ability to be 'sporty', but BMW needs to figure out how to fix the standard no line suspension quick. It's uncharacteristic of them to have such attributes in their cars. If I wanted a Lexus ride, I'd go buy a Lexus.
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  #29  
Old 04-01-2014, 12:38 PM
the_phew the_phew is online now
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Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
The problem is, in order for it to be that 'affordable sports sedan'. You'll need to tack on some options. Shouldn't the 3er be naturally sporty from the factory? That IS what the 3er was known for.
On the 320i, BMW offers their most "comfortable" suspension/wheel/tire combo, and their most "sporty" fixed suspension/wheel/tire combo, and only $1300 separates the two. I don't see how giving consumers a choice is a bad thing.

The only reason that BMW can sell us 10% an affordable sport sedan is because it's subsidized by the 90% that are leasing no-lines and don't know or care that they basically have Camry handling. If every 3-series had sport suspension by default, Consumer Reports would say "The ride is rough", soccer moms would hate that they couldn't apply makeup while driving, and sales would tank.

Last edited by the_phew; 04-01-2014 at 12:40 PM.
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  #30  
Old 04-01-2014, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post

Sorry, I go to school in Baltimore but I'm a Dallas fan.
The point isn't who you're a fan of, the point is that you're rehashing the same argument from 2012 that we've been through a thousand times, you've been here long enough to know this.

The F30 can be configured to out-handle an E90 Sport, it's just no longer standard equipment, you have to pay for it now. If your point is that BMW has released an inferior, downmarket version of the 3 Series to hit a pricepoint and combat Mercedes and the CL-A, no one is going to argue with you as it is not something 'secretive'. It's BMW's business strategy.

You want great handling, pay $4,000. You don't want great handling, you can get a decent 3 Series for $29,000. Win-win. Your mom isn't an enthusiast but she got a great car that suits her needs and that's the entire point of why her no-line exists. For decades, BMW made customers pay for basic comfort features while forcing the sporty suspension on everyone. Thousands of customers (my mom, for one) bought an Acura because they allowed her to get a garage door opener, dimming mirror, split rear seats, heated front seats, for free as Honda allowed her to opt-out of the sportier configuration. BMW woke up and is now allowing the same thing. Mom can get a nicely optioned cushy 320i for the same money as a sporty tight 328i by opting out of the handling and the engine and putting that money towards comfort features. Used to be a one-way road for BMW, now it's two-way. People have been de-spec'ing 3 Series for years, now the performance can be sucked out to save money too.

It's an old discussion, not sure why the re-hash.

BJ
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  #31  
Old 04-01-2014, 04:53 PM
gkr778 gkr778 is offline
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Originally Posted by the_phew View Post
If every 3-series had sport suspension by default, Consumer Reports would say "The ride is rough", soccer moms would hate that they couldn't apply makeup while driving, and sales would tank.
I doubt that would be the case. BMW's sport suspension tuning is revered for an almost magical quality: delivering excellent handling without imposing the penalty of harsh ride quality.

Consumer Reports said the following about an E82 135i it tested back in 2008, which was equipped with Sport Suspension:

"Despite its very good cornering, the 135i doesn't beat you up with a stiff ride. It's taut but supple."
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  #32  
Old 04-01-2014, 04:57 PM
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Consumer Reports often rates the Camry as its top-rated car--and it's a terrific driving appliance, best ordered in refrigerator white. On the other hand, the magazine has been a big fan of the BMW 3-series.

Last edited by Nordique; 04-01-2014 at 06:36 PM.
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  #33  
Old 04-01-2014, 06:10 PM
gkr778 gkr778 is offline
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Consumer Reports often makes the Camry as its top-rated car--and it's a terrific driving appliance, best ordered in refrigerator white. On the other hand, the magazine has been a big fan of the BMW 3-series.
Both Camry and 3-Series are excellent choices, though only the V6 and Hybrid versions of the Camry earned top road test scores in Consumer Reports' evaluation of midsize sedans. The non-hybrid 4-cylinder Camry was outscored by comparable variants of the Honda Accord and Hyundai Sonata.
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  #34  
Old 04-02-2014, 12:34 AM
Kafkaesque320 Kafkaesque320 is offline
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I doubt that would be the case. BMW's sport suspension tuning is revered for an almost magical quality: delivering excellent handling without imposing the penalty of harsh ride quality.

Consumer Reports said the following about an E82 135i it tested back in 2008, which was equipped with Sport Suspension:

"Despite its very good cornering, the 135i doesn't beat you up with a stiff ride. It's taut but supple."
I don't find sport suspension ride to be harsh in the least. Firm yes, but harsh? No way. The GTI was harsh. It had one ride quality - harsh. Harsh plus epic wind noise above 60mph. I would go out of my way to avoid various streets and roads because the ride was so bad. Along with that you get a symphony of strange rattles, squeaks and "chassis flex" as it was called.

I would say that all in all, the 320 is fantastic. It speaks to both driver, just like the 328 does, but for quite a lot cheaper. Option a basic sport line 328i with a few features vs. a 320 like mine with ZSP as a standalone and you are looking at close to a 10k difference. To some, like myself, 10k is considerable. Your mom can get a 320 like she has and it can suit her needs as a comfortable and fairly quick DD that gets great mileage and then someone like me can scope sport 320 as the poor man's tuner for a purist who wants core elements of BMW driving characteristics. I'm basically $33k in and I've got a RWD sport sedan with excellent handling, fuel economy, transmission and with a $400 piggyback, very near stock 328i power. I'd take my car over a no line 328 any day of the week which would leave either a sport line or M sport 328 and then we're in a whole different price point.

I also drove my friends C250 recently and while it was nice and comfortable inside, as far as driving dynamics, it was pure MUSH compared to my car. I also test drove a CC before getting this car and it just didn't compare. For the segment, the 320 can't be beat.
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You drive a 320 so pretty sure you have nothing of value to contribute.

Last edited by Kafkaesque320; 04-02-2014 at 12:37 AM.
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  #35  
Old 04-02-2014, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Kafkaesque320 View Post
I don't find sport suspension ride to be harsh in the least. Firm yes, but harsh? No way. The GTI was harsh. It had one ride quality - harsh. Harsh plus epic wind noise above 60mph. I would go out of my way to avoid various streets and roads because the ride was so bad. Along with that you get a symphony of strange rattles, squeaks and "chassis flex" as it was called.

I would say that all in all, the 320 is fantastic. It speaks to both driver, just like the 328 does, but for quite a lot cheaper. Option a basic sport line 328i with a few features vs. a 320 like mine with ZSP as a standalone and you are looking at close to a 10k difference. To some, like myself, 10k is considerable. Your mom can get a 320 like she has and it can suit her needs as a comfortable and fairly quick DD that gets great mileage and then someone like me can scope sport 320 as the poor man's tuner for a purist who wants core elements of BMW driving characteristics. I'm basically $33k in and I've got a RWD sport sedan with excellent handling, fuel economy, transmission and with a $400 piggyback, very near stock 328i power. I'd take my car over a no line 328 any day of the week which would leave either a sport line or M sport 328 and then we're in a whole different price point.

I also drove my friends C250 recently and while it was nice and comfortable inside, as far as driving dynamics, it was pure MUSH compared to my car. I also test drove a CC before getting this car and it just didn't compare. For the segment, the 320 can't be beat.
Enjoy in good health.
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  #36  
Old 04-02-2014, 11:43 AM
Kafkaesque320 Kafkaesque320 is offline
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Just for ****s, Here's a shot of the 320 way up Little Tujunga Canyon Road.

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You drive a 320 so pretty sure you have nothing of value to contribute.
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  #37  
Old 04-02-2014, 08:17 PM
gkr778 gkr778 is offline
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Just for ****s, Here's a shot of the 320 way up Little Tujunga Canyon Road.

Beautiful 320i, beautiful scenery. Enjoy those canyon drives - a ZSP equipped 320i is an ideal companion!
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Last edited by gkr778; 04-02-2014 at 08:18 PM.
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  #38  
Old 04-02-2014, 09:20 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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Originally Posted by Kafkaesque320 View Post
Just for ****s, Here's a shot of the 320 way up Little Tujunga Canyon Road.
668 looks great(mine is same color)! From this shot the F30 looks like E90.
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  #39  
Old 04-02-2014, 10:08 PM
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VERY nice!!
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  #40  
Old 04-02-2014, 10:32 PM
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Great comparison on bang for the buck!

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Originally Posted by Kafkaesque320 View Post
I don't find sport suspension ride to be harsh in the least. Firm yes, but harsh? No way. The GTI was harsh. It had one ride quality - harsh. Harsh plus epic wind noise above 60mph. I would go out of my way to avoid various streets and roads because the ride was so bad. Along with that you get a symphony of strange rattles, squeaks and "chassis flex" as it was called.

I would say that all in all, the 320 is fantastic. It speaks to both driver, just like the 328 does, but for quite a lot cheaper. Option a basic sport line 328i with a few features vs. a 320 like mine with ZSP as a standalone and you are looking at close to a 10k difference. To some, like myself, 10k is considerable. Your mom can get a 320 like she has and it can suit her needs as a comfortable and fairly quick DD that gets great mileage and then someone like me can scope sport 320 as the poor man's tuner for a purist who wants core elements of BMW driving characteristics. I'm basically $33k in and I've got a RWD sport sedan with excellent handling, fuel economy, transmission and with a $400 piggyback, very near stock 328i power. I'd take my car over a no line 328 any day of the week which would leave either a sport line or M sport 328 and then we're in a whole different price point.

I also drove my friends C250 recently and while it was nice and comfortable inside, as far as driving dynamics, it was pure MUSH compared to my car. I also test drove a CC before getting this car and it just didn't compare. For the segment, the 320 can't be beat.
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  #41  
Old 04-03-2014, 01:16 AM
Kafkaesque320 Kafkaesque320 is offline
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668 looks great(mine is same color)! From this shot the F30 looks like E90.
Doesn't it? I thought the same thing. The wheels really make the car. Great stock wheels.
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You drive a 320 so pretty sure you have nothing of value to contribute.
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  #42  
Old 04-03-2014, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Kafkaesque320 View Post
Doesn't it? I thought the same thing. The wheels really make the car. Great stock wheels.
668 actually is color code of Schwarz II(Jet black), which looks great with matt black finish on the window frames and exterior mirror.

My stock wheels are the 17-inch Style 393, those have the no-nonsense cool looks. The 320i ZSP's 18-inch Style 398 are OK, although my pick of 18-inch would be 328's Style 397 or 400M, those are clean and mean.

BTW, online prices of Style 398 and 397 are only $20 apart($328 vs. $346), 400M is $377. Interestingly, 393 is $298(or $30 cheaper than 398), so BMW really is not saving much with the 17-inch wheels.
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  #43  
Old 04-03-2014, 10:37 AM
Kafkaesque320 Kafkaesque320 is offline
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what part of northern CA are you?
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You drive a 320 so pretty sure you have nothing of value to contribute.
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Old 04-05-2014, 08:49 AM
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U my friend, is in the wrong boat.

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  #45  
Old 04-05-2014, 10:04 AM
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The 320ix was actually my first choice, but it just didn't offer all the options I wanted, so I had to upgrade to a 328ix. But considering the added standard equipments on the 328ix the price difference is not that great - maybe more like 4-5K instead of 8-10K.
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  #46  
Old 04-05-2014, 11:04 AM
Kafkaesque320 Kafkaesque320 is offline
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The difference in price for a similar 328 for me which would be sportline moonroof, sport auto w/paddles etc. is about $8000.
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You drive a 320 so pretty sure you have nothing of value to contribute.
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  #47  
Old 04-06-2014, 05:31 PM
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My goal for the 320 was to keep it low on options besides the one essential option: ZSP and sunroof and thats what I got.
My 320i, in addition to Sport Suspension and Moon Roof has the heated front seats(I live in the North East) and the 6 Speed Manual. Managed to get $4100 off thru USAA - so $32K car here too. Tremendous value/phenomenally balanced car for performance/handing/fuel economy. All I can say is awesome car!!
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  #48  
Old 04-06-2014, 07:10 PM
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My 320i was under $33K ZSP ZMT, what with loyalty discount and BMW CCA rebate, plus my bimmer trade. Awesome car, as fine as my sport package E46 trade-in!
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  #49  
Old 04-06-2014, 08:59 PM
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I get to drive lots of Toyota's (unfortunately) and I've also driven the new 320i for extended periods. Anyone who thinks the 320i feels anything like a Toyota is out to lunch or is just exaggerating for the sake of.
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  #50  
Old 04-06-2014, 10:17 PM
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The point isn't who you're a fan of, the point is that you're rehashing the same argument from 2012 that we've been through a thousand times, you've been here long enough to know this.
Thank you, the OP sounds like he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and is use to driving some of the better cars out there. As you pointed out, BMW did it's homework on what the 320i should be and been very successful at it.
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