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X5 F15 (2014 - Current)
The all new F15 BMW X5 started production August 2013 as a 2014 model year. The new X5 arrives in sDrive35i (RWD), xDrive35i, xDrive50i and a diesel xDrive 35d.

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Old 04-02-2014, 05:20 PM
MotoWPK MotoWPK is offline
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X5 35i vs 35d comparitive sales volume

As we consider whether to order a 35i or 35d X5, I'm curious as to what the relative sales volumes have been for the two. Though posted in the X5 F15 forum, it would be interesting to know this information for past years too.
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Old 04-02-2014, 08:30 PM
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We ordered a 35d in February and the dealers we spoke to gave us the impression that the 35i was is shorter supply. Don't know if that was due to demand or production levels though. FWIW


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Old 04-03-2014, 07:04 AM
CTSoxFan CTSoxFan is offline
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I would guess that in the US, the gas model outpaces the diesel by quite a margin. Unfortunately in this country a lot of people still think of the horrible diesels of years past and are turned off by them, thus lowering the sales volume. I currently have a 2011 35d and we just ordered a new 2014 X5 35i. Why the switch? At the time we bought the diesel, the gas was an underpowered 3.0 (the 4.8 was out of the budget) and the diesel had a huge ECO credit attached to it ($3500 or $4500 can't recall). That plus at the time the fuel cost was very favorable when owning a diesel. Fast forward to today, and the 35i is a much improved gas engine, there is no eco credit, and at least where we live the cost of diesel vs. gas (approx $0.30 more per gallon) offsets the better mileage in the diesel. Add in the fact that the D is $1500 more expensive and it was really a no-brainer. Only way I would opt diesel at this point is if you plan to use the vehicle to tow or drive a lot of miles (to where the fuel savings offsets the additional up front cost).
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Old 04-03-2014, 07:14 AM
Clifton Clifton is offline
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Originally Posted by MotoWPK View Post
As we consider whether to order a 35i or 35d X5, I'm curious as to what the relative sales volumes have been for the two. Though posted in the X5 F15 forum, it would be interesting to know this information for past years too.
I went trough the same struggle and ultimately it came down to gas mileage/range of vehicle. The ratio quoted to me for US based X5ds was 1 in 20. The majority of the diesels are shipped to the rest of the world.

Two separate dealers quoted me this same (SWAG) number. The allocation numbers for diesel builds, or lack thereof, seemed to support this guess. There was an abundance of 35is.
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:46 AM
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As far as I remember, X5d US sales was between 20-30% of all E70 sales depending on the incentives available at the moment. As a diesel fun boy I would not buy more expensive F15 with single turbo diesel over 35i gas version. It does not make sense (IMO) from a financial perspective, but also from power perspective. If they offered $4-5k credit, I would reconsider...
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Old 04-04-2014, 08:00 AM
Clifton Clifton is offline
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Originally Posted by kanar200 View Post
As far as I remember, X5d US sales was between 20-30% of all E70 sales depending on the incentives available at the moment. As a diesel fun boy I would not buy more expensive F15 with single turbo diesel over 35i gas version. It does not make sense (IMO) from a financial perspective, but also from power perspective. If they offered $4-5k credit, I would reconsider...
I'm interested in your financial analysis that brought you to your conclusion. Not discrediting your thoughts, but I'm not sure that I would agree.

Using available on-line calculators and resources like Fuel Economy Gov, I'm seeing that the X5d will pay for itself over the gas equivalent ($1.5k delta) in ~3 years (see attached screen shot). That calculation is a mix of city/highway driving with a tilt toward city. Slide that scale to favor more highway and I would suspect the recovery cost to take even less time to recoup.

Think it really comes down to how you plan on using the X5, but most cases seem to favor diesel over gas.
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Old 04-04-2014, 09:45 PM
CTSoxFan CTSoxFan is offline
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It all depends on the figures you put into your calculator. In my area, the spread between premium gas and diesel is around $0.30 (the default you used is only a $0.08 spread). Using that, at 15,000 miles per year and the 45/55 split in your figures, the diesel saves you approximately $400/year. So you save only $1200 over a 3 year lease term, vs the $1500 upcharge, which is obviously not worth it. Obviously is you are buying and keep your vehicles a longer time than the numbers tilt towards the diesel.
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Old 04-04-2014, 09:56 PM
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In my area premium gas is $4.15 to $4.20 and diesel is $3.99 to $4.05.
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:07 PM
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I landed at a similar conclusion as others here. The economics of upgrading to diesel are not that compelling - 4 year ROI for us based on our usage pattern and the typical price spread between premium and diesel as reported on gasbuddy.com. All the while, giving up on that glorious BMW gas inline-6 sound! Pass.
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Old 04-07-2014, 08:17 AM
MotoWPK MotoWPK is offline
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In our area diesel is running equal to a few cents a gallon more than premium, but I still expect the oil burner will save us $400 to $600 per year in fuel costs.

Back to the original post, we upped the relative sales of the 35d by one this past Saturday with the purchase of an F15 35d, the decision finalized after test driving a 35i (we'd previously driven a 35d). While the engine in the 35i is excellent, the additional power of the 35d in the RPM range we most commonly drive in was the deciding factor.
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Old 04-08-2014, 06:26 AM
CTSoxFan CTSoxFan is offline
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Grats on the new ride. Either vehicle is a great choice, and ultimately it comes down to what makes for you based on your driving habits and economics.
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Old 04-08-2014, 03:07 PM
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caveatesq caveatesq is offline
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Originally Posted by CTSoxFan View Post
It all depends on the figures you put into your calculator. In my area, the spread between premium gas and diesel is around $0.30 (the default you used is only a $0.08 spread). Using that, at 15,000 miles per year and the 45/55 split in your figures, the diesel saves you approximately $400/year. So you save only $1200 over a 3 year lease term, vs the $1500 upcharge, which is obviously not worth it. Obviously is you are buying and keep your vehicles a longer time than the numbers tilt towards the diesel.
Your analysis is not correct for a lease. Yes, there is a $1,500 MSRP price difference between the gas and diesel models, but on a lease, you are not paying the entire $1,500 difference. You are only paying the percentage that is not residualized. The current residual on a 15k/yr lease is 57% so you are only paying an extra $645 plus interest for the diesel over the 3 year lease (likely less than $25/mo in the lease payment), which leaves you with several hundred dollars in savings based upon your fuel cost estimates above.
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Old 04-08-2014, 03:20 PM
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Yeah, almost everybody is focused on the price difference... this is only one of the arguments against diesel. The other one is that 35d (real 30d) in F15 is not an engine comparable with 35i. 30d aka 35d in the US is just not as good as 35i. 35i and 40d are comparable engines.

As a side note, 35d installed in E70 was completely different engine (predecessor of 40d, bi-turbo) than rebadged 35d in F15 (single turbo).
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:09 PM
CTSoxFan CTSoxFan is offline
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Originally Posted by caveatesq View Post
Your analysis is not correct for a lease. Yes, there is a $1,500 MSRP price difference between the gas and diesel models, but on a lease, you are not paying the entire $1,500 difference. You are only paying the percentage that is not residualized. The current residual on a 15k/yr lease is 57% so you are only paying an extra $645 plus interest for the diesel over the 3 year lease (likely less than $25/mo in the lease payment), which leaves you with several hundred dollars in savings based upon your fuel cost estimates above.
Yup..epic math fail by me...thats what I get for doing it quickly. Math works for a finance however, with the payback not being until 4 years in...

In my case, I drive about half that many miles, so I wouldn't see the benefit. Plus as it is my wife's car, she prefers the gas due to the greater availability (probably only 50% of the stations near me carry diesel) and the fact that the pumps are usually pretty nasty (again, wife's POV).
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:11 PM
NJ330Ci NJ330Ci is offline
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Originally Posted by MotoWPK View Post
Back to the original post, we upped the relative sales of the 35d by one this past Saturday with the purchase of an F15 35d, the decision finalized after test driving a 35i (we'd previously driven a 35d). While the engine in the 35i is excellent, the additional power of the 35d in the RPM range we most commonly drive in was the deciding factor.
Just curious, in what type of driving does the 35d provide better power than the 35i?
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Old 04-08-2014, 06:28 PM
MotoWPK MotoWPK is offline
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Just curious, in what type of driving does the 35d provide better power than the 35i?
At low to moderate RPM. Peak torque of the 35d is 417 and the 35i is rated at 300. In both cases from around 1750 RPM. Both deliver peak torque from this speed across a signicant part of the operating speed range. Within this engine speed range, the 35d delivers about 40% more power than the 35i (417/300).
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:02 PM
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At low to moderate RPM. Peak torque of the 35d is 417 and the 35i is rated at 300. In both cases from around 1750 RPM. Both deliver peak torque from this speed across a signicant part of the operating speed range. Within this engine speed range, the 35d delivers about 40% more power than the 35i (417/300).
Torque is not power, but let's not get into that debate. Sound like you wanted a diesel and you got one. Viva la difference!
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Old 04-09-2014, 08:56 AM
MotoWPK MotoWPK is offline
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Torque is not power, but let's not get into that debate. Sound like you wanted a diesel and you got one. Viva la difference!
Power is torque x engine speed so at the same RPM power is proportional to torque. The 35i is rated at 295 lb-ft from 1300 to 5000 rpm while the 35d is rated at 413 lb-ft from 1500 to 3000 RPM. Therefore, from 1500 to 3000 RPM, the 35d produces 40% more power than the 35i (413/295). The 35d will continue to produce more power beyond 3000 RPM with the 35i overtaking the former at some point depending on the slope of the torque curves. The 35i produces more peak power than the 35d because its torque does not fall off as quickly with engine speed with former rated at 300HP from 5800 to 6000 RPM and the latter at 255HP at 4000 RPM, the 35d not capable of reaching 5800 RPM.

Thus at, say, 2500 RPM, the 35d is capable of 40% more power than the 35i or, alternatively, the 35i, would need to run at a 40% greater engine speed, 3500 RPM, to produce an output equal to the 35d. In typical driving (at least my typical driving), it's this latter difference that usually comes into play where the 35i, to produce a certain degree of acceleration or maintain speed up a grade, will downshift one or two gears while the 35d will not downshift at all or only downshift one gear.

You're correct, we did want a diesel, though the fuel savings was not the deciding factor ($400 - $600 per year is a small amount compared to the purchase and operating costs of car a like the X5), it was the relative power characteristics of the two engines that caused us to conclude we prefer the diesel over the gasser. Someone whose driving style prefers higher RPM will likely prefer the latter over the former.
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Old 04-09-2014, 11:51 AM
Clifton Clifton is offline
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Yeah, almost everybody is focused on the price difference... this is only one of the arguments against diesel. The other one is that 35d (real 30d) in F15 is not an engine comparable with 35i. 30d aka 35d in the US is just not as good as 35i. 35i and 40d are comparable engines.

As a side note, 35d installed in E70 was completely different engine (predecessor of 40d, bi-turbo) than rebadged 35d in F15 (single turbo).

Using that logic, wouldn't that make the 35i gas engine "not as good as" as it's predecessor? The gas 35i use to have bi-turbo (N54) and now has a single turbo (N55).

Personally and from a more power is better, I'd rather have a 40d, but they are not really an option in the US. However, I don't think that makes the 35d any less of a workhorse.
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Old 04-09-2014, 12:59 PM
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N55 uses a single twin scroll turbocharger which is not a single turbo. Twin scroll works more like bi-turbo and not like single turbo. E.g. it reduces turbo lag.
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Old 04-09-2014, 03:07 PM
Clifton Clifton is offline
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N55 uses a single twin scroll turbocharger which is not a single turbo. Twin scroll works more like bi-turbo and not like single turbo. E.g. it reduces turbo lag.
False - The N55 twin scroll is a single turbo, not two, only one. The N54 had two physical turbos in parallel.

The the N57 diesel is a single turbo and works on a similar principle as the N55, hence "Twin Power".

Both try to replicate what the N54 g/ M57 d with two turbos.
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Old 04-09-2014, 03:32 PM
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kanar200 kanar200 is offline
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Read again what I wrote: N55 uses a single twin scroll turbocharger which is not a single turbo.

Twin scroll turbocharger is not something similar to a single turbo. This is completely different technology.

30d is a single turbo, regular single turbo (not twin scroll turbocharger). "Twin Power" is only BMW marketing BS and does not mean anything...


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Originally Posted by Clifton View Post
False - The N55 twin scroll is a single turbo, not two, only one. The N54 had two physical turbos in parallel.

The the N57 diesel is a single turbo and works on a similar principle as the N55, hence "Twin Power".

Both try to replicate what the N54 g/ M57 d with two turbos.
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:39 PM
Clifton Clifton is offline
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I read yours and I ask that you read mine, carefully.

Twin scroll/Twin Power is the same marketing gimmick. It does not the equate to two physical turbos. The N55 is a single physical turbo, period. I think what you are trying to say is that the single turbo of the N55 with dual vanes is doing the work similar to that of the N54 bi-turbo that uses two physical turbos.

Read me N54 vs N55

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Originally Posted by Clifton View Post
The gas 35i use to have bi-turbo (N54) and now has a single turbo (N55).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clifton View Post
The N55 twin scroll is a single turbo, not two, only one. The N54 had two physical turbos in parallel.
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:52 PM
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Please, 35i and 30d (aka 35d in the US) use completely different turbo systems. One is twin scroll turbocharger (35i) second one is single turbo turbocharger with variable vane geometry (30d). What is the advantage of having twin scroll turbocharger I mentioned before - the twin scroll reduces "turbo-lag".
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:53 PM
Clifton Clifton is offline
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30d is a single turbo, regular single turbo (not twin scroll turbocharger). "Twin Power" is only BMW marketing BS and does not mean anything...
Also False. the 35d is a single turbo, but it utilize variable geometry vane technology. The vanes of the turbo vary so they can adjust to driving needs (small turbo/large turbo). It's the same concept "two turbos in one" that the N55 banks off of.

Both the N55 and N57d are marketed as "Twin Power".
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