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E36 (1991 - 1999)
The E36 chassis 3-Series BMW was a huge hit among driving enthusiasts from the first moment the car hit the pavement. The E36 won numerous awards over the years it was produced and is still a favorite of many BMW enthusiasts to this day! -- View the E36 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 04-21-2014, 05:19 PM
WestonBallard WestonBallard is offline
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Advice on m52 turbo

I have had my 99 323is for about a year now and really like it. Although it's not a super fast bimmer, I love the driving experience. Everything works good and it has low miles.

I was originally thinking about selling my car and picking up an e36 m3, but I love my car and don't intend on getting rid of it anytime soon. So, since I have decided to keep my car, I have looked into making it a bit faster. With the research I have done, many people have thrown a turbo on the m52 and have done some great work.

I am just looking for some advice. Should I convert to OBD1? How difficult is it to convert to OBD1 if I should? Am I in for a ****ty ride?

Thanks fellas.
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  #2  
Old 04-21-2014, 06:45 PM
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drivinfaster drivinfaster is offline
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in cali?? psshhh,....good luck with the idea of using obd1....


there are plenty of kits available, but i would make sure that the kit you wish to use will comply with carb regs....unless you 'know a guy'....





df
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  #3  
Old 04-21-2014, 07:46 PM
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southpark11235 southpark11235 is online now
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Regardless of CA, I would not bother with OBD-I. OBD-II is easier to tune.
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:24 AM
WestonBallard WestonBallard is offline
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Silly me, I assumed OBD1 was easier to tune. Perfect! Since my car is already OBD2. Thanks for the info.
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  #5  
Old 04-22-2014, 07:29 AM
hnaz hnaz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestonBallard View Post
Silly me, I assumed OBD1 was easier to tune. Perfect! Since my car is already OBD2. Thanks for the info.
Uhm, I dunno what Alex is smoking but I want some of that!

OBD 1 is easier to tune, my good sir. OBD 2 is second easiest to tune, namely because it is a more common standard used in cars now. And everyone has a OBD 2 scanner.
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  #6  
Old 04-22-2014, 11:49 AM
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southpark11235 southpark11235 is online now
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Originally Posted by hnaz View Post
Uhm, I dunno what Alex is smoking but I want some of that!

OBD 1 is easier to tune, my good sir. OBD 2 is second easiest to tune, namely because it is a more common standard used in cars now. And everyone has a OBD 2 scanner.
With OBD-I you have to pull the chip and re-flash it for every adjustment you want made. So, the tuner has to make a safe estimate tune and put the car on the Dyno. Then he looks at all the readings and pulls the chip to adjust the tune accordingly. Then he repeats that until the tune is right.
With OBD-II the tuner can sit in the car with his laptop and see all the data in real time. The tuner can make all the adjustments on the fly and quickly see how they effect the engine. This makes fine tuning the engine easier and quicker.
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“We got about ten minutes before this entire county is up in flames. If you want to live, you’d better step on the gas! Oh wait is this a Tesla? Sh!t! Well, step on the prissy pedal, we're going to die!” – Cartman
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  #7  
Old 04-22-2014, 12:48 PM
hnaz hnaz is offline
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Originally Posted by southpark11235 View Post
With OBD-I you have to pull the chip and re-flash it for every adjustment you want made. So, the tuner has to make a safe estimate tune and put the car on the Dyno. Then he looks at all the readings and pulls the chip to adjust the tune accordingly. Then he repeats that until the tune is right.
With OBD-II the tuner can sit in the car with his laptop and see all the data in real time. The tuner can make all the adjustments on the fly and quickly see how they effect the engine. This makes fine tuning the engine easier and quicker.
That's interesting... the way the guy at Kassel Performance does it is he reads the numbers from the dyno, and has a spare chip handy making the adjustments. Pops that chip in, re-dynos the car and makes further adjustments on the chip that was pulled out. Estimated time of pulling chip out and putting back in, maybe 10 seconds tops.
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  #8  
Old 04-22-2014, 01:30 PM
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Jakobie1086 Jakobie1086 is offline
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Here in Bucks County PA '75-'95 cars need the ASM5015 test, aka "Smog". People don't realize that if you own a 1975 to 1995 car in PA you have a emissions test just as hard as smog out in cali.

OBD1 cars are nice because they don't have a air pump, have 1 O2 sensor rather then 4, better intake mani stock, easier to access crank sensor, better located FPR (On back of fuel rail rather then under car), less EWS invasiness, and no CCV.
Downside is emission bull****
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1992 White 325i Auto - Lemons race car
1995 Green 318ti 5 speed - OBD1 S52 Race Car
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  #9  
Old 04-22-2014, 05:32 PM
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drivinfaster drivinfaster is offline
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meh,....obd1/obd2....pretty much it is a moot point. yes, obd2 can be reflashed, but is dependent upon having the necessary tools to do so.

obd1 requires more labor to install said chip, and, if a mistake is made, then the chip is more or less useless.

the exception to the chips are ee-prom chips. i am not certain if bmw obd1 oe chips are like this or not.

as for emissions related 'crap', stuff like egr, air pumps, and the like are not operable @ wot.



df
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Old 04-22-2014, 05:36 PM
hnaz hnaz is offline
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Originally Posted by drivinfaster View Post
meh,....obd1/obd2....pretty much it is a moot point. yes, obd2 can be reflashed, but is dependent upon having the necessary tools to do so.

obd1 requires more labor to install said chip, and, if a mistake is made, then the chip is more or less useless.

the exception to the chips are ee-prom chips. i am not certain if bmw obd1 oe chips are like this or not.

as for emissions related 'crap', stuff like egr, air pumps, and the like are not operable @ wot.



df
BMW obd1 e-prom chips come pre-programmed to your VIN. They are locked as well, unfortunately. But the guy at Kassel Performance can break the code. Dude is amazing.
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My 325is M-Tech Restoration Thread
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  #11  
Old 04-22-2014, 05:49 PM
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drivinfaster drivinfaster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnaz View Post
BMW obd1 e-prom chips come pre-programmed to your VIN. They are locked as well, unfortunately. But the guy at Kassel Performance can break the code. Dude is amazing.
ok. thought so, as a lot of makers went to an e-prom (ee-prom) by some makers.

most 'chip' tunes were plug-n-play back in the day, meaning anyone who had cash to buy one could do so and plop it in the ecu. obd2 put a stop to that and hence got the rap as more difficult to tune.





df
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  #12  
Old 04-22-2014, 06:23 PM
Gertzerroz Gertzerroz is offline
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Now what turbo to use? and how much boost could the stock engine take reliably? The OBD version is out of the equation for now.
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  #13  
Old 04-22-2014, 06:27 PM
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drivinfaster drivinfaster is offline
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what can you afford??

what is your end goal??


just to be turbo'd??


or do you really want some serious gains??


read this. http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...658&highlight=





df
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  #14  
Old 04-22-2014, 10:10 PM
hnaz hnaz is offline
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Just remember these wise words; "It's not about how fast you want to go. It's how much money you got."
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  #15  
Old 04-23-2014, 03:00 AM
WestonBallard WestonBallard is offline
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I ain't no crazy mutha that wants a bunch of power. I want just the right amount for a great ride. I am thinking around 300 to 350 horses. I am willing to spend around $3-$3,500 for this project. Of course I ain't rich and will be working for more than a year to make this project happen. I'm not sure what turbo yet. I know garret and precision have some great turbos but am not sure what would be good for my ride. Also, not sure how much boost my stock M52 can handle and am not sure how much boost I will need to reach my hp goal. Any thoughts?
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  #16  
Old 04-24-2014, 08:09 PM
ron94mtech3 ron94mtech3 is offline
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Originally Posted by WestonBallard View Post
I ain't no crazy mutha that wants a bunch of power. I want just the right amount for a great ride. I am thinking around 300 to 350 horses. I am willing to spend around $3-$3,500 for this project. Of course I ain't rich and will be working for more than a year to make this project happen. I'm not sure what turbo yet. I know garret and precision have some great turbos but am not sure what would be good for my ride. Also, not sure how much boost my stock M52 can handle and am not sure how much boost I will need to reach my hp goal. Any thoughts?
You need to do some research on what turbo systems are CARB approved http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/aftermkt.htm You will never pass smog certification without CARB approval. There may some turbo systems that are certified but you need to find one them or will be wasting your money because you will not be able to get your license registration renewed.
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Old 04-24-2014, 10:38 PM
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dc_wright dc_wright is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestonBallard View Post
I ain't no crazy mutha that wants a bunch of power. I want just the right amount for a great ride. I am thinking around 300 to 350 horses. I am willing to spend around $3-$3,500 for this project. Of course I ain't rich and will be working for more than a year to make this project happen. I'm not sure what turbo yet. I know garret and precision have some great turbos but am not sure what would be good for my ride. Also, not sure how much boost my stock M52 can handle and am not sure how much boost I will need to reach my hp goal. Any thoughts?
Very rough estimate about 10-12 psi of boost should get you past the 300 hp threshold.
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  #18  
Old 04-25-2014, 03:00 AM
WestonBallard WestonBallard is offline
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Originally Posted by dc_wright View Post
Very rough estimate about 10-12 psi of boost should get you past the 300 hp threshold.
Is 10-12 psi going to be alright for my stock m52? And what amount of boost is the limit? Just wondering...
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