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Fuel trim bank1 and bank2 error

132K views 20 replies 11 participants last post by  ricks5series  
#1 ·
:cry:
My 2001 525i has trim bank errors, I have tested it for intake leaks with brake cleaner. Also had a smoke test done and still nothing. Shop told me it was my maf. He said it was reading 13 kg and it should read 10 kg. so I bought a new one and installed it. reset the code and it still comes back. The new maf reads 13kg also. I am so frustrated, so is their anyone out their with my answer.:dunno:
 
#3 ·
#6 · (Edited)
My scanner say fuel trim bank 1 , permissible range exceeded and also the same for bank 2. He is suppose to specialize in bmw, that's why he did the smoke test to rule out vacuum leaks. I bought a rebuild maf one from a local auto store. I also changed the boot after the maf it was cracked pretty bad.
The engine will idle idle around 1000 rpm when down shifting from one of the higher gears to nuetral . Stay their for a second then idle normal
 
#4 · (Edited)
Let's see if we can put together some more info that will help solve your problem.

What do you mean by "trim bank errors"? What are your codes? From your post I assume you have a scan tool that reads live data. What are your long and short term fuel trims?

The reason for my questions is that you are obviously looking for vacuum leaks which would create a lean condition. However if your MAF was creating a lean condition, it would be reporting less air coming into the engine than what was actually happening. In that case the ECU, thinking less air, would be providing less fuel than what was actual and a lean condition. However with the MAF reporting more air than actual, the ECU would be providing too much fuel or a rich condition. FYI-positive fuel trims tell us that the computer is trying to add fuel so a lean condition would exist; negative fuel trims tell us that the computer I'd trying to take away fuel so a rich condition exists.

Another question is what MAF did you buy. Only a VDO-Seimens MAF will do. Sorry to say this but all the others are aftermarket junk.

Edit-Just another thought. From what I know about air flow, 10 kg/hour is low and 13 kg/hour is about right. So your shop seems to be confused. Why are they smoke testing your car for vacuum leaks (lean) when the MAF is reporting more air than actual (rich)?
 
#5 ·
Take this for what it's worth. I'm quoting from memory and I cannot find the original article on the web. Sorry.

In said article, the CEL was coming on about 8 minutes after a cold start even with replaced sensors. Fuel trim errors were causing the CEL. Mechanic guy put the car "on the scope" and determined that the air pump was working until about that time to augment flow to the cats (or some such thing) this was not required once the engine was warm. Consequently, there is a solenoid that fires to shut off flow from the pump - but it fires before the air pump is shut off. If it fires "slowly" or not at all, the extra air from the air pump is now interpreted as "bad" whereas prior to the solenoid firing, it's acceptable.

Not sure if this helps - and sorry I cannot find the article - but it may shed some light.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I realize that the fuel trims have been exceeded but I'm wondering which way they have been exceeded, lean or rich. Our cars usually have lean problems, i.e. vacuum leaks, but I just wanted to make sure lean is still your problem after replacing the intake boot right after the MAF. If your problem is lean (a fuel trim with a plus value) , have you inspected the rubber boot right in front of the throttle body/idle control valve or the hose from the bottom of the CVV to the dip stick tube.

However unusual, a rich running condition which your mechanic suggested by saying your MAF is the problem has a completely different set of solutions than a lean problem. You icarsoft scan tool can give you live data, so, pretty please, tell us whether you fuel trims are plus or minus.
 
#10 ·
#21 ·
check this out too:
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-5-series-forum/208875-what-these-codes-means-plz-help.html

it points to MAF, boots, O2 sensors, CCV and DISA.

one of them is the culprit. Also, the CCV/Oil return sit below the throttle body and smoke may not get to them and could be missed.

any whistling sounds or what sounds like the jetsons' car? not Astro, but their car. Close to this:

I had a whistling sound for quite some time and couldn't determine where it was coming from. Thought it may have been one of the pulley's but I changed all of them when I redid my entire cooling system. Now the CEL appeared, ran a Foxwell scanner and now receiving the same error message, "Fuel trim bank 1 &2, permissible range exceeded. Your Youtube is no longer available so couldn't see what you were referring to. I realize this is an old post, but can you she any light on this? Thanks in advance.
 
#12 ·
I bought the car second hand, the o2 sensors look new but I can't really tell. I inspected the disa, hose coming from the sop stick . I was under the impression that a smoke test would show any leaks . If I did a live scan of the vehicle, what reading should I get to test the o2 sensors, ccv, and maf. I am not an auto mech but I am a ok tech in my field. I do understand voltage readings and if I could get the values of these components I will be ready to tackle the job myself. So how do I test each component to find which one or ones are not functioning .
 
#14 · (Edited)
I will try to answer your questions.

O2 sensors will set a fault code when they begin to fail (slow response) or fail (no signal). I wait until they set these codes to replace. On one of my family's E39s two of the sensors set slow response codes at 164K miles and I replaced them all so I did not have to do the job 4 times, one at a time. They had worked fine IMO. Many change these sensors at 90K or some other mileage but mine worked fine until the car told me they were not.

The DISA valve can start falling apart and you will also get a code telling you that there is a problem. Partiular to your engine, a M54, the metal pin that holds the flapper can work its way loose and when the frame that holds the flapper breaks the pin can get sucked into the engine and cause damage. This is a rare occurrence but there is a kit to fix the problem. You'll have to search for the kit as my cars have the m52TU motor which does not have this problem very much. I superglued my pin into place. The DISA can also leak around the o-ring. BMP Design is the only place that sells a replacement o-ring.

A properly performed smoke test will reveal any vacuum leaks but the person doing the test has to know the car and how to do the test. As helmet75 said, it may take a while, 5-10 minutes, for the smoke to reach deep into the intake and associated sustems. As I said, the mechanic doing the test has to know what he's doing and have patience. My smoke machine, a Smoke Pro, has a gauge that tells you if there is a leak. So if the gauge indicates a leak, you have to be patient and wait until the smoke appears.

There is really no specific test for the CVV but many remove the oil fill cap while the engine is running and if there is a huge amount of vacuum there, the CVV is shot. There should be some vacuum at the cap but not a huge amount. Another sign of a failed CVV is a plume of white smoke out the exhaust at startup. A search on this forum will tell you about a failing CVV. Using the Wiki section ( top tool bar at the extreme right) will provide much info.

You MAF is fine showing 13kg/hour. Tihis value is not absolute and will change with air temp and elevation above sea level but yours is in the neighborhood. Another test is to measure the voltage at the signal wire-should be between .5 and 4.5 volts depending on engine speed. The lower value is the idle value. Different engines have a different number of wires so you will have to search for your car. Mine has 3 wires and the yellow wire is the signal wire-yours may be similar but I don't know. Take a look.

Live data will have many readings that include coolant temp, intake air temp, short and long term fuel trim for all 4 sensors (both after CAT sensors basically watch the CATs for proper operation and have only a very small input into how the engine computer adjusts air, fuel and spark), the voltage being generated by each sensor (if you graphed these voltage readings, you'd get a bell curve approximately), short term fuel trims tell you what the engine is doing NOW, long term trims are much more stable as they are a sort of average of the short term trims over time. The volume of air flowing thru the MAF is also reported. Hopefully, the MAF is correct. I've made a table for my car with a known good MAF showing the volume, ambient air temp and elevation for different rpms up to about 3K. Very useful for checking on the MAF. I can't remember exactly but any short term fuel trim (all fuel trims are displayed as a percentage) that is either plus or minus over 10% for over 10 seconds will set a code.

I think that experience with live data is the best teacher. The fault codes point a finger at the problem and you have to have knowledge of how everything works to interpret data and solve problems. Research and reading is the best teacher or take some classes at an automotive school. A friend of mine who is an excellent tech says he doesn't have to get dirty diagnosing problems anymore because Google knows all.

I am no expert but just a DIYer who has been working on his own cars for many years. I did work in a repair shop as a service manager for 8 years and learned a tremendous amount during that time.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Okay with my lean cuz I have changed the MAF I have changed my boots to the intake took off the disa valve the plunger Works however it seems to not be closing the flap when I pump air into the little hole. I did a smoke test there was one hose off front of the CCV valve could it be or what the problem lies in the CCV itself? Any help appreciated

Sent from my LGMS210 using Bimmerfest mobile app
 
#16 ·
is there a port without a cap on the CCV? (small vac line size port) it should be capped. the m52 engine used that vac line for the fp regulator, but not the m54,
on the DISA, the vac line should have vacuum applied, not pressure. the vacuum is stored in the DISA chamber, and released to operate the flap when its electrically enabled, hence the electrical connector to the DISA.
 
#18 ·
This port on your CCV(middle of picture) needs to be capped on your M54 motor. If not it can result in a vacuum leak.



It was used only on the M52TUB28 motor to evacuate fumes off of the fuel pressure regulator.
Not used on M54 and needs to have a plug on it.

BMW did not change the design of the CCV between the two motors.

It has no relation to the Disa Valve. Just make sure there is a good sealing plug on it.
 
#19 ·
:cry:
My 2001 525i has trim bank errors, I have tested it for intake leaks with brake cleaner. Also had a smoke test done and still nothing. Shop told me it was my maf. He said it was reading 13 kg and it should read 10 kg. so I bought a new one and installed it. reset the code and it still comes back. The new maf reads 13kg also. I am so frustrated, so is their anyone out their with my answer.:dunno:
I found maf actual valu (10 to 16kg) it's Right or wrong
 
#20 ·
:cry:
My 2001 525i has trim bank errors, I have tested it for intake leaks with brake cleaner. Also had a smoke test done and still nothing. Shop told me it was my maf. He said it was reading 13 kg and it should read 10 kg. so I bought a new one and installed it. reset the code and it still comes back. The new maf reads 13kg also. I am so frustrated, so is their anyone out their with my answer.:dunno:
Read the entire thread but didn't see if you ever resolved your issue and if so, what it turned out to be because my 530i is giving me the same error message.Thanks in advance