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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #1  
Old 05-06-2014, 09:41 AM
brewder brewder is offline
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RFT to Non RFT Question

So my wife overheard a technician at the local tire shop talking to a customer who wanted to switch from a RFT to non RFT. (This is exactly what I want to do as my existing RFT's are shot.)

The shop is a pretty reputable place and they ONLY deal in tires... (meaning, they aren't a general shop that does automotive repair... they only do tires). Anyway, he was saying that switching from RFT to non's is a bad idea. That the car and the suspension is all setup for RF's and if you change them out it changes all the dynamics and could be dangerous.

I'm thinking hogwash... as I've seen plenty of threads of happy enthusiasts here loving their RFT to non RFT setups.

Any truth to the techs comments? I think I've had enough of the rough riding RF's and want a change.


Past/Current RF's: Conti's / Yokohama Avid Envigor

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  #2  
Old 05-06-2014, 09:49 AM
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335IoTwnTrbos 335IoTwnTrbos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewder View Post
So my wife overheard a technician at the local tire shop talking to a customer who wanted to switch from a RFT to non RFT. (This is exactly what I want to do as my existing RFT's are shot.)

The shop is a pretty reputable place and they ONLY deal in tires... (meaning, they aren't a general shop that does automotive repair... they only do tires). Anyway, he was saying that switching from RFT to non's is a bad idea. That the car and the suspension is all setup for RF's and if you change them out it changes all the dynamics and could be dangerous.

I'm thinking hogwash... as I've seen plenty of threads of happy enthusiasts here loving their RFT to non RFT setups.

Any truth to the techs comments? I think I've had enough of the rough riding RF's and want a change.


Past/Current RF's: Conti's / Yokohama Avid Envigor

//Brew

Most probably say it because our cars no longer come with spare tires. The non RFTs are always better in my opinion, other than the hassle if you get a flat.
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  #3  
Old 05-06-2014, 09:52 AM
ctuna ctuna is online now
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There are many threads on RFT vs non RFT's here

There are many threads on RFT vs non RFT's here
There are many that have made the switch and they don't
seem to be reporting they are crashing.
They mostly report things like.
The ride is more comfortable
I can hear the stereo now
I don't have to buy tires at twice the price twice as often.
I can actually buy the tires I use most places for reasonable prices.
If you want to talk about things that are not designed right
ask about pothole explosions from the RFT's.

Please search for RFT for further info.
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  #4  
Old 05-06-2014, 09:55 AM
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335IoTwnTrbos 335IoTwnTrbos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctuna View Post
There are many threads on RFT vs non RFT's here
There are many that have made the switch and they don't
seem to be reporting they are crashing.
They mostly report things like.
The ride is more comfortable
I can hear the stereo now
I don't have to buy tires at twice the price twice as often.
I can actually buy the tires I use most places for reasonable prices.
If you want to talk about things that are not designed right
ask about pothole explosions from the RFT's.

Please search for RFT for further info.
ctuna has it, see?

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  #5  
Old 05-06-2014, 09:55 AM
ctuna ctuna is online now
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There are many threads on RFT vs non RFT's here

There are many threads on RFT vs non RFT's here
There are many that have made the switch and they don't
seem to be reporting they are crashing.
They mostly report things like.
The ride is more comfortable
I can hear the stereo now
I don't have to buy tires at twice the price twice as often.
I can actually buy the tires I use most places for reasonable prices.
If you want to talk about things that are not designed right
ask about pothole explosions from the RFT's.

Please search for RFT for further info.

Also how often do you get a flat?
The TPMS system gives you a warning .
Almost everybody and there kids have a cellphone.
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  #6  
Old 05-06-2014, 10:01 AM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewder View Post
...
Anyway, he was saying that switching from RFT to non's is a bad idea. That the car and the suspension is all setup for RF's and if you change them out it changes all the dynamics and could be dangerous.

I'm thinking hogwash... as I've seen plenty of threads of happy enthusiasts here loving their RFT to non RFT setups.

Any truth to the techs comments? I think I've had enough of the rough riding RF's and want a change.
Mostly hogwash. Many many people have changed, with no problems. Now, the absolute limits of the suspension will be affected due to the increased rolling of the tire due to less stiff sidewalls, but in a very minor way.

IME and IMO, people changing to go-flats are not really getting much additional softness in the ride. I just changed from my go-flat winter tires to my RFT summers, and the ride and noise is much better with the RFT's (of course, they aren't noisey, soft winter tires.) And the pothole experience is much the same.

It's not the RFT, btw. It's the low profile. Check out this post from a guy with go-flats on what look like 19" rims: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=770022
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  #7  
Old 05-06-2014, 10:41 AM
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bear-avhistory bear-avhistory is offline
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If anything the car rides much better with non-RFT's. No thrashing & crashing over bumps. Changed mine out in 2011 when the car had 1500 miles on it. No tire issues since the swap.
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  #8  
Old 05-06-2014, 10:46 AM
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laser laser is offline
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But the concerning thing is the seed has been planted in your wife's head ......whatever route you take now .....can only be wrong.......
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  #9  
Old 05-06-2014, 11:06 AM
Spagolli94 Spagolli94 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
Check out this post from a guy with go-flats on what look like 19" rims: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=770022
True, the pothole I hit was pretty bad. But I can say with confidence that if I had the RFTs on the car, it would have been much worse. And, I'd likely have a bubble in my RFT sidewall, thus need a whole new tire.

As far as the suspension being engineered for RFTs, I've heard this before. Not sure how true it is. Then again, I'm running Koni FSDs, so I'm not worried what the stock suspension is geared for.
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  #10  
Old 05-06-2014, 11:09 AM
brewder brewder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laser View Post
But the concerning thing is the seed has been planted in your wife's head ......whatever route you take now .....can only be wrong.......
OMG now THAT was funny! (and ohhhh so true in general!)

The good news is, I'm asking for MY car.... She likes the idea of the RF's because I drive long distance in some remote areas where calling someone implies a 4 hour wait till they find me....

But I would get myself a plug kit, to add to my air compressor kit... so I wouldn't be worried about it... So the wife-factor is moot (at least on this topic!).
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  #11  
Old 05-06-2014, 11:58 AM
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laser laser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewder View Post
OMG now THAT was funny! (and ohhhh so true in general!)

The good news is, I'm asking for MY car.... She likes the idea of the RF's because I drive long distance in some remote areas where calling someone implies a 4 hour wait till they find me....

But I would get myself a plug kit, to add to my air compressor kit... so I wouldn't be worried about it... So the wife-factor is moot (at least on this topic!).
So you are in the clear ! .........switching from run flats to go flats on my 2009 328i made it drive like a new car .......and I can hear the stereo ......

can of green goop inflator in the trunk ......never touched in 30,000 miles now .....my tire shop said no problem if you use it we can clean it out ......
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  #12  
Old 05-06-2014, 12:19 PM
birdman15 birdman15 is offline
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Run Flats great idea but forget them. get a roadside auto plan!!

I took the run flats of my 08 328xi and the car felt like a completely different car.
ha yes I can hear the radio.

complete BS on the dynamics of the car changing.
I put on Michelin Primacy Mx4's and they are SUPER, dry, wet and even in the snow. ( I will be putting on winter tires next winter though )
I say get rid of run flats all together but again that is just my opinion.
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  #13  
Old 05-06-2014, 12:34 PM
Nadir Point Nadir Point is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birdman15 View Post
..get a roadside auto plan!!
I consider me and my family's safety and time FAR more valuable than the difference between the higher cost of run-flats and any roadside plan. Ever wonder what might happen if your teenage daughter had a front wheel blowout on the Interstate in heavy traffic? Ever considered the potentially loooong response time for the typical roadside breakdown service visit? It varies - considerably, depending on location and TOD/DOW.

We have that anyway, but flat tire repair is not the reason for it.
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  #14  
Old 05-06-2014, 12:47 PM
birdman15 birdman15 is offline
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Like I said just my opinion. RFT have been out for how many years now? been around in production vehicles since 1994, "run flat tires provide convenience to a consumer just to get to point B, but conventional tires are typically lower in cost and have better ride qualities." Tire will still prolly need to be replaced be it a non run flat or a run flat

here is where the sales guy was prolly talking about dynamics:

standard on most BMW models with the exception of some BMW M Models. run flat tires have several advantages and that they "Support BMW's Efficient Dynamics Strategy by eliminating the extra weight of the spare tire, jack and tools in the vehicle for better balance, dynamic handling and fuel efficiency."

again just my opinion and to each their own all depends on preference.

cheers
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  #15  
Old 05-06-2014, 02:23 PM
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Mark K Mark K is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewder View Post
The good news is, I'm asking for MY car....
OK, here's what I know to be 100% true. Because I tried it. Multiple, repeated times.

My car lost RFT with 22,000 on odo (roughly). Since then it run exclusively on non-RFT. Michelin Pilot Super Sport in summer, Dunlop Wintersport 3D in the winter. Not only that, but summer setup and winter setup are on different wheels and with different tire sizes.

That car has been driven at 8-9/10ths on a racetrack almost routinely since it had 5,000 miles on odo. In no moment, none whatsoever, did Michelin tire feel dangerous respect to OEM Bridgestone Potenza's. I do not know what the tire shop guy is talking about, but 99.9% of BMWs are driven at no more than 5/10ths for their lifetime. Never to exceed that threshold. So, if I perfectly safely did many, many laps on a racetrack on street non-RFTs ... you take your conclusions.

It seems to me that RFT became like a cell phone. OMG! How will I call if I don't have my cell phone with me? It is true now, but when cell phone was a stuff you saw in sci-fi movies (not even there, they usually went for Skype alternative in the movies and call it videophone), there was a payphone to be found every 1/2 mile. So, as long as you have a spare tire (payphone in my analogy), there's nothing to be afraid of. Your car will not explode and burn in 30 seconds if you slowly drive on deflated tire to a safe location to replace it with a spare. Besides, old cars didn't even have a feature to tell you almost immediately that you have a tire losing pressure and give you PLENTY of notice to arrive to a tire shop or off the highway to change the tire and people didn't get extinct back then ...

Now, remove the spare and create a NEED for RFT. Remember "Sell me this pen" from Wolf of the Wall Street? Brilliant! Same with remove payphones and create a need for cellphones.
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Old 05-06-2014, 02:34 PM
DozerDan DozerDan is offline
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I recently toyed with this same question. I went with not RFT for my summer set.

Cost- $100+ cheaper than RF
I have not gotten a flat tire in over 6 years (knock on wood)
I have the option of carrying one of my winter tires with me as a spare
I have AAA (free 100mile towing)

I can not fully comment on the ride and handling as I also went to 18's and Michelin tires. But the tires are awesome and the car handles great.
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Old 05-06-2014, 07:46 PM
cazzopazzo cazzopazzo is offline
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I got some toyo proxes 4 plus Wow! What a ride and cornering is amazing!



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  #18  
Old 05-06-2014, 08:21 PM
Spagolli94 Spagolli94 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadir Point View Post
I consider me and my family's safety and time FAR more valuable than the difference between the higher cost of run-flats and any roadside plan. Ever wonder what might happen if your teenage daughter had a front wheel blowout on the Interstate in heavy traffic? Ever considered the potentially loooong response time for the typical roadside breakdown service visit? It varies - considerably, depending on location and TOD/DOW.

We have that anyway, but flat tire repair is not the reason for it.
My daughter isn't anywhere near driving age, but I think I'd feel better with her waiting for AAA rather than her attempting to change a tire on the side of a busy interstate.
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Old 05-06-2014, 08:50 PM
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Olatunji Olatunji is offline
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RFT to Non RFT Question

I always enjoy reading RFT threads. Loving my go-flats!


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Last edited by Olatunji; 05-06-2014 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 05-06-2014, 08:53 PM
ashewb ashewb is offline
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well, as far as switching to non run flats and no spare ? a lotta new cars come with non run flats and an inflation kit. have for a while . a cafe/mpg thing. the last flat i had , a strip of roofing gun nails on i-45 in the rain, between 2 18 wheelers, pretty sure run flats would have not been better.
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:17 AM
Nadir Point Nadir Point is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
Now, remove the spare and create a NEED for RFT.
Another way to view that angle is remove the spare to take advantage of better technology while making a better car at the same time.
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:59 AM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadir Point View Post
I consider me and my family's safety and time FAR more valuable than the difference between the higher cost of run-flats and any roadside plan. Ever wonder what might happen if your teenage daughter had a front wheel blowout on the Interstate in heavy traffic? Ever considered the potentially loooong response time for the typical roadside breakdown service visit? It varies - considerably, depending on location and TOD/DOW.

We have that anyway, but flat tire repair is not the reason for it.
when you say Blow out vs flat tire, my opinion thats two different cases,

tire blow out means the tire disintegrates and comes off the rim which can happen to both
RFT and NRFT, now loosing air pressure is a less sever case, but remember you can only drive on RFT with out air for 50 miles, and the inside of the tire will be destroyed and its not likely that any tire store will have one in stock as noted in several post on here, people had to wait several days for a replacement tire, you can drive on a flat tire for a bout a mile but you can still get to a safe place and call a tow truck, or if you have a 12v compressor and plug kit and know how to do it, fix it on the spot and Move on!
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  #23  
Old 05-07-2014, 09:08 AM
ctuna ctuna is online now
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The argument about saving weight seem weak.

The argument about saving weight seems weak.(due to no spare)
Since in some cases runflat tires run as much as 10lbs heavier per tire.

Last edited by ctuna; 05-07-2014 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 05-07-2014, 09:56 AM
Nadir Point Nadir Point is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hondo402000 View Post
...tire blow out means the tire disintegrates and comes off the rim which can happen to both.
Uh, that would be incorrect:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...lar-tires.html
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  #25  
Old 05-07-2014, 10:04 AM
Spagolli94 Spagolli94 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hondo402000 View Post
when you say Blow out vs flat tire, my opinion thats two different cases,

tire blow out means the tire disintegrates and comes off the rim which can happen to both
RFT and NRFT, now loosing air pressure is a less sever case, but remember you can only drive on RFT with out air for 50 miles, and the inside of the tire will be destroyed and its not likely that any tire store will have one in stock as noted in several post on here, people had to wait several days for a replacement tire, you can drive on a flat tire for a bout a mile but you can still get to a safe place and call a tow truck, or if you have a 12v compressor and plug kit and know how to do it, fix it on the spot and Move on!
Agree. Two scenarios...

Option A, RFT. Pay a fortune and have crappy ride quality. Pick up a nail with RFT. Limp to service station. Save the cost of a tow truck, but be stranded for 3 days waiting on a specialty tire.

Option B, Non-RFT. Save some money up front and enjoy better handling and ride quality. Pick up a nail with a non-RFT. Pull over. Call tow truck. Wait two hours. Use the money you save on regular tires to pay for the tow to the service station. Wait a couple more hours, then be on your way.

To me, option B is a no brainer.
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