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F80/F82/F83 M3 and M4 (2015 - Current)
F80 BMW M3 sedan, F82 BMW M4 coupe and F83 M4 convertible forum. This 5th generation M3 and all new M4 features a 3.0 liter twin turbo engine (engine code S55) 425hp and 406lbs of torque! Heavy use of light weight materials makes this generation lighter and faster then the outgoing E9x M3.

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  #1  
Old 08-15-2014, 10:31 AM
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"Would it" be harder to resell a manual M3? Do people typically pay down or up for it

Curious as to how it could affect resale on a car like the M3. I know on a 535i, a manual will massively limit your buyer base, but on an M3?

At the same time, I can see manual cars raising resale due to specific buyers who have little choice to find one elsewhere, and will pay you top dollar. Yet again, you're working with a limited base I'd assume, which isn't good for resale.

Can anyone also quote me the difference between manual and auto M3 in 0-60, 1/4 mile, and mpg?

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 08-15-2014, 10:39 AM
Kafkaesque320 Kafkaesque320 is online now
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It would most likely take you a little longer but the M3 has an enthusiast audience and you will certainly find a buyer and I doubt you would take any kind of 'hit' for it being manual. There is however a faction of drivers of such cars that don't like using their left foot, but you would easily be able to find a buyer I would think since it is seen as a 'sports car'. Not nearly as hard as it would be selling an X3 or similar with a manual.
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You drive a 320 so pretty sure you have nothing of value to contribute.
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  #3  
Old 08-15-2014, 10:55 AM
M3Inline6 M3Inline6 is offline
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Not at all. There's a reason that manual ///M cars are big here in North America.
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  #4  
Old 08-15-2014, 11:02 AM
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Good to know. Yeah, I figured/hoped/assumed that an M3 would be one of the rare cars out there that wouldn't suffer much for being a manual. Starting to think about considering an M3 again, without an auto this time to cut the price down some. Pretty dramatic price decrease.

My biggest concerns would be resell value/ease, performance, and gas mileage (i.e does the "you shifting" aspect cost some tenths of a second, and does only having 6 gears eat away at any MPG, namely highway?).

I keep hearing how the M auto's aren't all that smooth, a little jerky, which makes considering a manual on these cars even more enticing. That and rowing your own gears thus truly "FEELING" that masterpiece of a straight 6 motor, would be some fun. Paddle shifting a car around town just doesn't draw the same connection, at all (feels more like a video game, at least on my F10).
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  #5  
Old 08-15-2014, 12:13 PM
kk22 kk22 is offline
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Road and Track did a 3.9 0-60 in an M4 manual recently. Can't remember the 1/4
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Old 08-15-2014, 12:16 PM
Kafkaesque320 Kafkaesque320 is online now
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Originally Posted by kk22 View Post
Road and Track did a 3.9 0-60 in an M4 manual recently. Can't remember the 1/4
Man, that's insane
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  #7  
Old 08-15-2014, 01:20 PM
CTSoxFan CTSoxFan is offline
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Originally Posted by kk22 View Post
Road and Track did a 3.9 0-60 in an M4 manual recently. Can't remember the 1/4
Actually R&T said the DCT does it in a 3.9, whereas the manual is a 4.1 (although I believe this was just using what BMW told them). Car & Driver said they ran a 4.3 with the stick.

Found a bunch of data that suggests 1/4 mile on the DCT will be 12.1 @ 117 or 119 (depending on source)

Going DCT vs Manual is going to be the biggest choice I make in my M4. I have pros and cons for both.
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  #8  
Old 08-15-2014, 01:42 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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It'd be impossible for a manual to run a faster time, I'd think, though it will put a little more power to the ground, so I'm assuming it should trap higher or be a little faster at highway speeds (unless maybe the lack of gearing hampers it there)? It's also about 55 lbs lighter, focusing reducing that weight from right around the drivers side front of the car.

Any links to MPG differences between both?
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  #9  
Old 08-15-2014, 01:52 PM
CTSoxFan CTSoxFan is offline
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
It'd be impossible for a manual to run a faster time, I'd think, though it will put a little more power to the ground, so I'm assuming it should trap higher or be a little faster at highway speeds (unless maybe the lack of gearing hampers it there)? It's also about 55 lbs lighter, focusing reducing that weight from right around the drivers side front of the car.

Any links to MPG differences between both?
I saw 17/26 for the dct vs 17/24 for the manual.
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  #10  
Old 08-15-2014, 02:12 PM
kk22 kk22 is offline
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Originally Posted by CTSoxFan View Post
Actually R&T said the DCT does it in a 3.9, whereas the manual is a 4.1 (although I believe this was just using what BMW told them). Car & Driver said they ran a 4.3 with the stick.

Found a bunch of data that suggests 1/4 mile on the DCT will be 12.1 @ 117 or 119 (depending on source)

Going DCT vs Manual is going to be the biggest choice I make in my M4. I have pros and cons for both.
Let me help you with you decision by providing a picture of the actual page

Always read the fine print.

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  #11  
Old 08-15-2014, 02:22 PM
CTSoxFan CTSoxFan is offline
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Originally Posted by kk22 View Post
Let me help you with you decision by providing a picture of the actual page

Always read the fine print.

The R&T online article I read stated 4.1 manual and 3.9 dct, but as I mentioned I believe they were just parroting the BMW #s.

I love the proof you provided...and hate it because it makes the decision that much harder
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  #12  
Old 08-15-2014, 07:44 PM
DerStig DerStig is offline
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Manual is so much fun, if my wife let me, I'd get 6MT.
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Old 08-15-2014, 08:18 PM
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Manual is so much fun, if my wife let me, I'd get 6MT.
That is my biggest issue..wife can't drive a MT...I tried teaching her on my S4, but it didn't go so well.
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  #14  
Old 08-15-2014, 08:48 PM
DerStig DerStig is offline
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That is my biggest issue..wife can't drive a MT...I tried teaching her on my S4, but it didn't go so well.
My wife can drive it as well as I do, the problem is, she doesn't want to and rightfully so. With a little baby in the back, it's very difficult when she has to constantly turn and give her water, snack, etc. Let's just be honest, as much as it is fun, it is also not practical. 6MT that is. DCT is just so convenient.
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Old 08-15-2014, 08:58 PM
CTSoxFan CTSoxFan is offline
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Originally Posted by DerStig View Post
My wife can drive it as well as I do, the problem is, she doesn't want to and rightfully so. With a little baby in the back, it's very difficult when she has to constantly turn and give her water, snack, etc. Let's just be honest, as much as it is fun, it is also not practical. 6MT that is. DCT is just so convenient.
Agree...have to admit I hated it when I was stuck in traffic back in the northeast...at my current job in CA though I have a virtually traffic free commute (I go against traffic) so I wouldn't mind 6MT...but if that situation changes I would not want the MT.
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  #16  
Old 08-15-2014, 09:21 PM
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Yeah, the convenience would be an issue. I could see myself either dreading the car after a couple/few years, or finding the MT giving me a reason to not want to let go or get out of it. I live in a heavy traffic area, which is an issue.

That 24 MPG highway kinda sucks, kind of takes it to a different sector than even the 26 gets (which is at least somewhat more reasonable), though from what I understand, the DCT mileage is very underrated, so hopefully the MT would be too.

Another issue of MT is that it's only a 6 Speed, which is where the MPG issue arises, it woulda been cool if BMW implemented a 7 Speed manual, like Porsche did, though it's obvious that BMW is more leaning toward phasing out MT than they are investing extensive R&D money toward it.

Regardless, it'd take you a LOT of miles to even put a dent in that $3K savings by way of getting just 2 MPG less on the highway.
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Old 08-16-2014, 07:02 AM
DerStig DerStig is offline
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Yeah, the convenience would be an issue. I could see myself either dreading the car after a couple/few years, or finding the MT giving me a reason to not want to let go or get out of it. I live in a heavy traffic area, which is an issue.

That 24 MPG highway kinda sucks, kind of takes it to a different sector than even the 26 gets (which is at least somewhat more reasonable), though from what I understand, the DCT mileage is very underrated, so hopefully the MT would be too.

Another issue of MT is that it's only a 6 Speed, which is where the MPG issue arises, it woulda been cool if BMW implemented a 7 Speed manual, like Porsche did, though it's obvious that BMW is more leaning toward phasing out MT than they are investing extensive R&D money toward it.

Regardless, it'd take you a LOT of miles to even put a dent in that $3K savings by way of getting just 2 MPG less on the highway.
24 or 26, they are impossible to achieve if you drive the car to enjoy it. If I stay in efficient mode and D1, I can get over 30mpg in highway, so I wouldn't worry too much about 6MT's fuel economy there.

Also, the reason why 6MT has better fuel economy, only in the U.S. by the way, is because of the ancient way EPA tests these cars. In reality, DCT is more efficient.
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Old 08-16-2014, 07:22 AM
MMCRACING MMCRACING is offline
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I think it will be harder to sell. People who prefer manual may "settle" for DCT, but the opposite is less likely. I was also expect selling prices to be different similar to the up front cost of the DCT. I don't see it as lost money - you will probably see a good portion of it back when you sell it.
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Old 08-16-2014, 07:56 AM
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I have the 6MT. It's a nice MT, not Honda good but still good. All BMW DCTs are thirstier than the 6MT version of the same car by a few mpgs. The ZF 8-speed AT is another couple of mpgs better than the 6MT. The DCT is a very good transmission but it's not frugal, it's thirsty. Autobahn mpg with varying speeds and no cruise control including stop and go situations and several hard accelerations averaged about 26 mpg with my 6MT F80. My E90 DCT would have given around 20 mpg here. In town and using the engine the difference is smaller vs. E90 maybe 2-3 mpg better. Pretty much as I expected and a welcome range extender for road trips.

Will an MT be harder to sell? Yes, likely but still these cars are not in every garage, it will be easy enough to find a buyer to similar value loss as a DCT car. If you trade it will likely not make a difference.

The slight roughness of the M3 is mostly in the LSD and impacts both transmissions. I.e an MT isn't much smoother than the DCT at low speeds. The MT is simpler, cheaper, more frugal and more involving. The DCT is faster and more convenient. Pick your favorites

Last edited by solstice; 08-16-2014 at 08:50 AM.
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Old 08-16-2014, 11:43 AM
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Didn't the official statistics actually state that the DCT got better highway MPG than the MT? Or did I mix them up?

Re: Resale of a manual. I guess it's kind of a crapshoot. At this point, imagine how many people don't even know how to drive a manual, and every year that statistic surely climb. I.e in several years from now, the manual driver base would continue to shrink.

Still, though, if there is a car to have with a manual, it'd be an M3, or Porsche, as there will probably always be a select group who purposefully seek a manual, though fewer and further between. If you find the right person, maybe they'd even pay up for it.

It does seem super fun to have the S55 masterpiece at your own fingertips at all times, though I'd almost feel like a second car would be needed for times I just don't want to row gears (though maybe I'd look forward to it?), which then negates the initial savings, lol.
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Old 08-16-2014, 11:47 AM
M3Inline6 M3Inline6 is offline
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Originally Posted by DerStig View Post
24 or 26, they are impossible to achieve if you drive the car to enjoy it. If I stay in efficient mode and D1, I can get over 30mpg in highway, so I wouldn't worry too much about 6MT's fuel economy there.



Also, the reason why 6MT has better fuel economy, only in the U.S. by the way, is because of the ancient way EPA tests these cars. In reality, DCT is more efficient.

So a driver has to drive like a hooligan to enjoy the car? I just want to make sure I understand you correctly. I must've been doing something wrong all these years of driving ///M cars.


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Old 08-16-2014, 01:48 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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Didn't the official statistics actually state that the DCT got better highway MPG than the MT? Or did I mix them up?
Yeah the MT get better numbers. You have the 2015 EPA for BMW here:

http://fueleconomy.gov/feg//bymake/BMW2015.shtml
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Old 08-16-2014, 01:56 PM
M3Inline6 M3Inline6 is offline
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Yeah the MT get better numbers. You have the 2015 EPA for BMW here:



http://fueleconomy.gov/feg//bymake/BMW2015.shtml

That's for the link.


P.S. I didn't know you were a member here man.


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Old 08-16-2014, 01:58 PM
DerStig DerStig is offline
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MT got better numbers only in the US. Rest of the world is quite opposite.
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Old 08-16-2014, 02:14 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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That's for the link.


P.S. I didn't know you were a member here man.


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Np, yes I haven't posted here regularly since the F8X was on the horizon but they had/have a really good F10 crowd here and I used to participate frequently. Unfortunately the F8X coverage here has been a bit slow in comparison.
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