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E36/7 Z3 (1996-2002)
E36/7 Z3 Roadster, Z3 coupe, Z3 M Roadster and Z3 M Coupe talk with our gurus here.

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  #1  
Old 11-19-2004, 08:37 PM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Clutch pedal spring

The S54 M-Z3 uses the dual center over clutch pedal spring.



The S52 M-Z3 uses a single center over one shown with the from 3/97 mounting parts.



This pic shows the same spring with the up to 3/97 mounting parts.



The non M's use an extension return spring. My ti uses the same spring.



The pedal has never squeaked and the pedal doesn't take a set to the left like the ones that use the center over spring (especially with stock bushings). It stays centered on the clutch stop.
I finally got around to installing one in my coupe a few days ago. Pedal force appears slightly more. Driving with it is fine. Easily changed with a different spring if you wanted to change it either way.
If you want to try this, extension spring part number is 35 21 1 158 489. You also need two grommets 35 31 1 113 725 where the spring mounts on the pedal and pedal mount assembly.
The E46, Z4, X3 and the new one series use an extension return spring too, but it is smaller.

Last edited by Ron Stygar; 11-26-2004 at 11:01 PM.
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  #2  
Old 11-19-2004, 09:01 PM
Ben Carufel Ben Carufel is offline
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Err, Ron, in that last pic...

" '00 z2-2.8 "

I didn't know BMW made a Z2! :P
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  #3  
Old 11-20-2004, 01:25 AM
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My 1.9 had the extension return spring. I was wondering what the part number was for those grommets. It was a bitch transferring the one from the old pedal to Ron's clutch pedal.
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  #4  
Old 11-20-2004, 01:33 AM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjcoston
My 1.9 had the extension return spring. I was wondering what the part number was for those grommets. It was a bitch transferring the one from the old pedal to Ron's clutch pedal.
Good idea. I will install one in the pedals I sell. Ordered six yesterday for another reason, but will order some more.
Thanks,
Ron
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  #5  
Old 11-20-2004, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Stygar
Good idea. I will install one in the pedals I sell. Ordered six yesterday for another reason, but will order some more.
Thanks,
Ron
I installed your clutch pedal a couple of years ago. Does this mean that I can update it to the new spring configuration you are describing?

I've had a constant creak in my pedal that I cannot eliminate which I blame on the return spring mechanism. My spring mechanism is different from the stock ones you describe, unless I am missing something. My M coupe has a spring mechanism that has an upper and lower part that are mated together inside the spring. They slide back and forth on each other as the spring expands and contracts. This constant friction leads to a lot of noise regardless of how much grease I force into it. I've had two M cars with this type of spring and they all made noises. My '00 Z3 coupe had the S52 mechanism you described above, and never made noise.

Clearly I'm trying to eliminate a constant creaking noise that does not emanate from any of the pivot points or connection points. I can say this with the confidence of lubricating them incessantly. I want to replace this spring configuration if it will work on the Stygar pedals.

Dwayne
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  #6  
Old 11-20-2004, 08:04 AM
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Just for clarity, when you installed the external return spring, you deleted the dual center over clutch spring assembly?
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  #7  
Old 11-20-2004, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwaynemosley
I installed your clutch pedal a couple of years ago. Does this mean that I can update it to the new spring configuration you are describing?
Dwayne
Yes, using the parts mentioned.
If you want to try this, extension spring part number is 35 21 1 158 489. You also need two grommets 35 31 1 113 725 where the spring mounts on the pedal and pedal mount assembly.

Last edited by Ron Stygar; 11-20-2004 at 11:09 AM.
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  #8  
Old 11-20-2004, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonM
Just for clarity, when you installed the external return spring, you deleted the dual center over clutch spring assembly?
Yes. All of the involved parts are now in a plastic bag.
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  #9  
Old 11-20-2004, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Stygar
Yes, using the parts mentioned.
If you want to try this, extension spring part number is 35 21 1 158 489. You also need two grommets 35 31 1 113 725 where the spring mounts on the pedal and pedal mount assembly.
Thanks Ron. I'll order the pieces on Monday and let you know the results I get.

Dwayne
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  #10  
Old 11-20-2004, 11:53 AM
Ben Carufel Ben Carufel is offline
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Are there any performance ramifications?

Why would BMW Motorsport not have gone to the beefier spring unless they had a reason?
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  #11  
Old 11-20-2004, 12:13 PM
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I believe my 2000 S52 has this setup.

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  #12  
Old 11-20-2004, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Stygar
Good idea. I will install one in the pedals I sell. Ordered six yesterday for another reason, but will order some more.
Thanks,
Ron
I'm going to be purchasing another one of your pedals to install in the M. I may then convert to the extension return spring. Thanks
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  #13  
Old 11-20-2004, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjcoston
I'm going to be purchasing another one of your pedals to install in the M. I may then convert to the extension return spring. Thanks
I will include the extension spring and two grommets with your pedal kit.
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  #14  
Old 11-20-2004, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Stygar
I will include the extension spring and two grommets with your pedal kit.
I was planning a waiting a while, but I think I'll go ahead and order it. I will email you tomorrow about the details. No hurry on shipping it. Thanks Ron
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  #15  
Old 11-20-2004, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Carufel
Why would BMW Motorsport not have gone to the beefier spring unless they had a reason?
Judging by everything from the stock sub-frame bushings to the bearing shells in the S54 engines I think it's pretty clear that the engineers at BMW are working within a myriad of constraints and certainly aren't infallible.
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  #16  
Old 11-22-2004, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Carufel
Are there any performance ramifications?

Why would BMW Motorsport not have gone to the beefier spring unless they had a reason?
The over center spring is refered to as an over center helper spring.
So I assume it makes the pedal easier to push down.
So I assume that is why BMW is using the over center spring.

I get requests from some folks with leg problems.
They are looking for a pedal that is easier to push down.

Will be trying some spring things to see.
Have to find a way to measure pedal force.

The non M extension return spring comes out around 15 pounds per inch.
The E46 M3 extension return spring comes out around 5 pounds per inch.
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  #17  
Old 11-22-2004, 04:41 AM
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bob lindquist bob lindquist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Stygar
Following pic shows the single center over spring with the from 3/97 mounting parts.
This is what was in my '00 M coupe.

This is the one my 2000 M coupe has.

The other spring setup is better at keeping the pedal from bending sideways like this one tends to do. Is that the benefit of changing to the other?
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  #18  
Old 11-22-2004, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Stygar
The over center spring is refered to as an over center helper spring.
So I assume it makes the pedal easier to push down.
So I assume that is why BMW is using the over center spring.

I get requests from some folks with leg problems.
They are looking for a pedal that is easier to push down.

Will be trying some spring things to see.
Have to find a way to measure pedal force.

The non M extension return spring comes out around 15 pounds per inch.
The E46 M3 extension return spring comes out around 5 pounds per inch.
In my opinion the clutch pedal in my M does take less effort to push in than the pedal with the non M extension return spring that was in my 97 1.9. I kind of prefer the pedal feel of the 1.9.
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  #19  
Old 11-22-2004, 11:45 PM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob lindquist
The other spring setup is better at keeping the pedal from bending sideways like this one tends to do. Is that the benefit of changing to the other?
Yes. See following pic.
It also gets rid of six potential squeak parts.
More consistent pedal travel.
Also the way the center over helper spring works doesn't make sense to me yet. Maybe someone can explain.

I set up a pedal mount assembly along with the clutch pedal.
I measured the force from where you place your foot (of the three different springs) moving from rest, 4 7/8 inches to the clutch stop and back. No master cylinder involved.
The single center over spring takes eight pounds to get it moving. It goes from eight to zero compressing the spring approaching center. From center down to the stop distance, the spring uncompresses from zero to eight pounds. So you start out with eight pounds compressing the spring going down to zero at center travel and from there the spring uncompressing adds eight. Why do they do that? It also works the same way coming back.

The dual center over spring works the same way except the eight pounds is four.

The extension spring takes just over a pound (clutch pedal arm to spring arm ratio is 8:1) to move from rest to the clutch stop distance.

So going from the dual center over spring to the extension spring adds five pounds to whatever it takes to move the master cylinder.
Will be measuring the system pedal force soon.


Last edited by Ron Stygar; 12-06-2004 at 12:12 AM.
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  #20  
Old 11-23-2004, 07:11 PM
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Single center over helper spring

Following pics show the spring at rest, center and over center (all the way down).

Spring at rest. Pedal all the way up. Spring uncompressed.



Spring at center. Pedal ~half way down. Spring compressed.



Spring at clutch stop. Pedal all the way down. Spring uncompressed.

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  #21  
Old 11-30-2004, 08:24 PM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Scale

Scale showed up today.
Purchased from McMaster-Carr:
http://www.mcmaster.com/

Made by:
www.salterbrecknell.com

Purchased the 55lb one. Does kg too along with hold, tare etc.
Also comes with a handle, fabric case and strap.

Takes 37 pounds to push down the pedal with the extension spring.

Will check the single and double over center ones.
My guess is that they will be 33 and 29.

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  #22  
Old 12-05-2004, 05:39 AM
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I installed the spring and grommets in my car Saturday afternoon. It certainly makes a big difference. The clutch pedal feels completely different. It works much smoother and the release is easier to feel.

The creaking noise is completely gone. I've had that noise for over three years, and now it's gone. Yea!!!!

Ron, thank you, thank you, thank you, I think you get the picture.
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  #23  
Old 12-05-2004, 06:24 AM
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bob lindquist bob lindquist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob lindquist
Dwayne did you replace the big spring over assembly with the simple spring and two rubber gromets?
Dwayne did you add the spring in the left photo and remove the one in the right photo?
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Eurosport Cam Kit 1, touch lane change
Zaino polish, Beach Sand
Garys mirror adapter, S54 Oil Cooler
seat tilt coupling nuts, spare tire

"life's to short to drink cheap beer"



Last edited by bob lindquist; 12-05-2004 at 06:28 AM.
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  #24  
Old 12-05-2004, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob lindquist
Dwayne did you add the spring in the left photo and remove the one in the right photo?
Yes, exactly.

I removed the whole pedal to add the spring. To me, the pedal feels lighter, which isn't a bad thing for me. But, it works very consistently now. Before, I felt like the pedal had small "jumps" in its top to bottom travel that I could never remove. Now it is as smooth as silk.
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  #25  
Old 12-05-2004, 02:13 PM
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bob lindquist bob lindquist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwaynemosley
Yes, exactly.

I removed the whole pedal to add the spring. To me, the pedal feels lighter, which isn't a bad thing for me. But, it works very consistently now. Before, I felt like the pedal had small "jumps" in its top to bottom travel that I could never remove. Now it is as smooth as silk.
Had to remove the pedal to get the old spring out?
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Eurosport Cam Kit 1, touch lane change
Zaino polish, Beach Sand
Garys mirror adapter, S54 Oil Cooler
seat tilt coupling nuts, spare tire

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