330i vs 330xi, would you notice any difference ...

driving them back to back? Does the xi feel heavier and slower?

Thanks,
Mike

The eep is a link.

Yes, the x will fell slightly heavier and slower. But faster on snow.

Obvious, isn´t it ?

Off the line the xi is a tiny bit faster because of traction, but they even out. The i is lighter should handle slightly better, but unless your tracking this thing you wont notice much of a difference.

There is more of a difference between the 325xi and 325i

You will feel it in a few ways:

1) The xi steering will be heavier and you will feel torque steer on the throttle in turns. (NOT in a straight line.)
2) xi initial roll is greater than a RWD 3'er with the sport suspension, but ABSOLUTE roll is much greater in the RWD version.
3) Acceleration will be marginally worse, but not that bad.
4) Braking will likewise be marginally worse.
5) When driven hard, the xi requires a far more careful management of grip.

Everytime I see an Xi I'm so glad I didn't get one. The lower stance of the i makes the car looks so much sportier. I've been using snow tires and I haven't had any problems. Plus I have better stoping and cornering traction with the i and snows then I would with the Xi and all-seasons.

Originally Posted by Moderato

Plus I have better stoping and cornering traction with the i and snows then I would with the Xi and all-seasons.

how did you determine this?

Originally Posted by rumratt

Common knowledge.

When the pavement is dry, you'll do much better with your all seasons though.

i see... he meant on snow

Originally Posted by Moderato

Everytime I see an Xi I'm so glad I didn't get one. The lower stance of the i makes the car looks so much sportier. I've been using snow tires and I haven't had any problems. Plus I have better stoping and cornering traction with the i and snows then I would with the Xi and all-seasons.

I also like the stance of the rwd i even though I bought an Xi. My car really came into its own over the holidays. We got nearly a foot of snow and then temps dropped into single digits for more than a week. The plows couldn't clear the neighborhoods and the roads were snowy and icy the whole time. The Xi was a blast. It was fun zooming around under full control, and going right up my sloped driveway effortlessly while my wife's fwd lexus and my fwd Intrepid usually took several tries and slid backwards each time. I'm sure that snows on any of these cars would help, but the Xi didn't require any prep. This situation might happen only once or twice a year, but I loved the awd then.

-rkahn

Originally Posted by Moderato

Everytime I see an Xi I'm so glad I didn't get one. The lower stance of the i makes the car looks so much sportier. I've been using snow tires and I haven't had any problems. Plus I have better stoping and cornering traction with the i and snows then I would with the Xi and all-seasons.

That's comparing apples with oranges. Why don't you compare all-season vs. all-season and snow vs snow?

Xi with snows has superior traction over your RWD with snows.

Originally Posted by breytonX5

That's comparing apples with oranges. Why don't you compare all-season vs. all-season and snow vs snow?

Xi with snows has superior traction over your RWD with snows.

RWD with a set of winter wheels and tires costs the same as the AWD 3'er.

Greater satisfaction for the same price.

Originally Posted by Nick325xiT 5spd

You will feel it in a few ways:

1) The xi steering will be heavier and you will feel torque steer on the throttle in turns. (NOT in a straight line.)
2) xi initial roll is greater than a RWD 3'er with the sport suspension, but ABSOLUTE roll is much greater in the RWD version.
3) Acceleration will be marginally worse, but not that bad.
4) Braking will likewise be marginally worse.
5) When driven hard, the xi requires a far more careful management of grip.

Car and Driver had a comparo on 10/01 pitting a 2001 330Xi vs. a WRX and the S4 Quattro where the 330Xi did a 5.7 seconds 0-60 (5.4 WRX, 5.5 S4) and a 14.4 sec @96 mph quarter (14.1@96 WRX, 14.2@97 S4).

In braking, the Xi took 175 ft to stop from 70 mph, whereas the WRX (a whopping 433 lbs lighter) took 181 ft and the S4 (127 lbs heavier) took 164 ft. Skidpad was .78g Xi, .82g WRX and .86g the S4.

The Xi did not have any performance tires or suspension.

Then Car and Driver tested a 2003 330i Performance Package on 9/03 which did the 0-60 in 5.6 sec, the quarter in 14.3 sec @ 97mph and took 158 ft to stop from 70mph. Skidpad was .86g.

So sometimes weight works in mysterious ways...

I have an 04 330xi with the sport package. I wasn't going to bother with AWD but my wife wanted one car in the "fleet" with it. I don't find it that different from a (non ZHP) 330i, except that under acceleration out of some corners you will sometime feel the torque steer. You might have to "manage" your turns a little more but no biggie. The steering also feels a little heavier but not enough that it bothers me. Seat of the pants acceleration or braking didn't feel much different between the two. Maybe it is the sport package or the 330 model, or the fact it is a sedan, but the xi does not seem to sit that much taller than the "i" either.

I don't like the A/S run-flat tires - they are too greasy feeling in the wet and are not the best handling tire. The snows I put on for this winter (Semperit Sportgrip) actually feel better on the car. I may replace the run-flats with standard performance summer tires.

Even though it is a heck of a lot bigger and heavier than the open-wheel cars I used to race, it is still enteraining snicking through the gears and running the backroads. Overall the car puts a smile on my face and that is not a bad thing.

Originally Posted by rumratt

You're definitely correct it's apples and oranges. But it *is* an interesting comparison because these are often the only two choices that people consider. A large percentage of people get AWD to avoid the hassle of snow tires.

Maybe that's not true in CA, but it is in the US.

Agreed. RWD with snows can perform just as good a job as AWD with all-season. In retrospect it's not an unfair comparo at all.

Originally Posted by mtmnet

driving them back to back? Does the xi feel heavier and slower?

Thanks,
Mike

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to bring up the snow factor because I'm not sure if mtmnet was even considering that. I just mentioned it because living in the Northeast I had some reservations about going with a RWD and snows and I also considered the Xi, but I wanted to mention that I'm very pleased with the RWD and performance snow tires. I should mention that I do have an AWD Subaru Outback which I use when the weather gets really nasty. That car has new A/S tires and it does take hills bettter then the RWD with snows, BUT in every other situation, other then straight ahead traction, the 330i with snows is better then that car. The 330i with snows brakes better and is more stable on corners. I just love the characteristics of the RWD 330i with summer tires during spring, summer and fall so much that I think it's worth it to get the (i) and spend the money on winter wheels and tires. Even though you are going to spend another 1K on winter wheels and tires and you could put that 1K towards the Xi and not bother with changing wheels, keep in mind that over the winter that set of rims will get trashed, they will get all pitted and nasty looking from not cleaning them often enough. Plus like I mentioned before the traction you gain from snow tires is very confidence inspiring. Let's put it this way, even if I got the Xi, I would still get a set of winter tires and snows for it. The bottom line is this, if RWD is important to you then get the (i), if not then get the Xi.

Originally Posted by rumratt

I'm a big advocate of RWD + snows. But what the RWD crowd doesn't normally acknowledge is that all seasons are better on dry pavement, which is 95% of your winter driving.

That's why if you have a lift & and impact gun in your garage then you can have 3 sets of wheels & tires: summer, UHP all-season, & snows. Now if I could just win the Lotto..

Originally Posted by rumratt

I'm a big advocate of RWD + snows. But what the RWD crowd doesn't normally acknowledge is that all seasons are better on dry pavement, which is 95% of your winter driving.

Summer tires are better on dry pavement than all seasons which is 100% of your summer driving.

I'll live with the so called marginal handling in winter. Winter tires STOP better than all-seasons.

Originally Posted by ObD

Summer tires are better on dry pavement than all seasons which is 100% of your summer driving.

I'll live with the so called marginal handling in winter. Winter tires STOP better than all-seasons.

It's funny how the guys who are so confident about the superiority of summer tires over All-seasons on dry roads get vague about the superiority of Ultra high-performance all seasons over winter tires on those same dry roads.

For those of you interested in high performance winter tires that rock in snow, wet & dry - check out the Vredstein Wintracs. I really can't say enough about the performance aspects of this tire. On my Audi S4 I run Yoko AVS sports on 19" rims for my summer tires and switch to Vreds on 17" rims. Yeah - you can somewhat feel the additional sidewall (flex/wobble) and in the dry it doesn't have quite the stick - but its really amazing how close it is. For 95% of my (hard) driving - I don't at all miss the Yokos - yeah the Vreds are just that good - I could use this tire year round (and so far wear seems very good as well) - and in fact last year I kept the Vreds on till June!

And its hard to compare between vehicals - but I'd swear by both the Yokos and the Vreds over the Michilen Pilots I have on the Bimmer (all nice tires). But I really think the Vreds are grippier - even in the dry(but noticibly so in wet weather)...but it just might be the AWD. Anyway - I recently dogged this Sti in the rain where try as he might (in the twisties and on the straights) he could not pull away from me - and he was fishtailing, slipping and sliding all over in the corners - my traction control never went on and I never slid - even a bit - I was firmly planted to the pavement with the Vreds - at high speeds and in the rain. And yeah - snow tires in general really make sense for snow driving. The Vreds are so vastly superior to the Toyo all season (performance) tires I had previously used - and consider the dangers/risks - its really worth a winter change out (and yeah - I have stacks of wheels & tires in my garage - lol).

Originally Posted by mtmnet

driving them back to back? Does the xi feel heavier and slower?

Thanks,
Mike

If you are worried abour RWD vs AWD on snow, I had the same dilemma. I picked RWD and am very glad. With snowtires, Blizzak LM-25, it is MUCH better on snow than my FWD Accord with all seasons.

If you are worried enough about snow to get AWD, then go all the way and get AWD + snow tires.

I hate to bring a thread back to life after it's been dead for a while but here goes.

I ran my 330xi for 2+ years on the GY AS tires and they did a decent job but they are a compromise in the winter and summer and I would suggest tossing them all together.

This year I switched to Wintersports for the winter and they make a big difference in handling and stopping but not as much of a difference in traction. I thought it would be night and day but it's not. Can you notice? Absolutely! But not night and day.

What I have found is that the AWD system will make the most difference, followed by the tires.

We picked up the X3 this year and it is night and day better in the snow compared to the 330xi and the X3 has stock tires on it.

There is a new development going in up the road and we have taken both vehicles through the un-plowed snow and the you can't even compare the 330xi to the X3.

Although the 330xi with snow tires will get you there and back 99.9% of the time, I can only imagine what it would be like with a real AWD system like the X3 or Audi. I wish I had it the one time I got stuck 3/4 the way up my steep driveway with 1' of snow on the ground Luckily I did the right thing and put it in park and cleared the driveway around the car

Originally Posted by mtmnet

driving them back to back? Does the xi feel heavier and slower?

Thanks,
Mike

I see you live in San Diego, so snow is not a concern for you at all. I would recommand i over xi.

I have chance to drive 330xi in BMW fund racing for breast canser event. Let me chip in my 2 cents here, but it is base on the impression of xi on a 30 minutes test drive, so no acceleration or handling measurement number from me.

On the process of getting in to he car, I will immediately feel the car is higher, this makes getting in and out easier. The increase in ride high is actually very noticeable when going around freeway ramp, car rolls more than the i. Xi in feels heavier mainly because the steering is heavier. In terms of acceleration, I would say it is about the same as i but the RPM on xi is notically higher than i at cruising speed. I didn't experience torque steer on xi at all. On the exist of the corner, I though I can put it harder because of tht AWD, but the body roll of the xi tells me that I don't want to push it any harder than i. Overall, I think xi is a great car, but it is just not as sporty as i especially with the high stance. Also in CA, xi really doesn't show its advantage over i.

eel

Originally Posted by FireFly

Luckily I did the right thing and put it in park and cleared the driveway around the car

Too bad I didn't do that in one of the last storms we had with the 5er - I thought I could go over the "snow hump" that I made with the Jeep... after 2.5 hours of chipping the snow out from under the car I did make it in the driveway...

After running the xi with the performance snow tires this winter... I still like the way the 5er feels in the snow. The xi felt unpredictable in some of the nasty stuff I drove in, like it was wandering, trying to find which wheel to give traction to. I'm not sure if changing to the WS-50 type Blizzaks that the 5er has would help.

I know I'm going to get flamed, but let me just add how amazingly bad summer tires are in the snow. I figured I wouln't drive in the snow and I'd make it 1/2 a winter without getting wheels and tires, but boy was I wrong. The only thing that saved me from a dozen wrecks was the manual gearbox, otherwise I would have been toast. Needless to say I learned my lesson.

I learned my lesson last year when the Explorer got stuck 3/4 the way up. I tried to keep going and ended up going backwards and almost rolled it off the driveway Took the tow guy 1 hour to get it out

It's best to leave it there and get the snow-blower out and go around it.