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E36/7 Z3 (1996-2002)
E36/7 Z3 Roadster, Z3 coupe, Z3 M Roadster and Z3 M Coupe talk with our gurus here.

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  #1  
Old 01-20-2005, 02:54 AM
dutchmroadter dutchmroadter is offline
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M Roadster is holding back

Hello everyone!

First of all let me introduce myself. My name is Nick, I'm 19yrs old and I come from the Netherlands. Before you might think I'm a spoiled brat: the M Roadster isn't mine, it's mums .

I do have a question though. Recently I was driving the Z3M and when I got off the highway, something strange occured. At low rpm the car was kind of hassitating, you could feel it was holding back and he refused to react on the gaspedal. When I pressed the pedal harder, the engine released 'full power' again a didn't had the problem anymore. My guess is that the fuel injectors are putting to much fuel to the engine, because of the sound the exhaust makes. A kind of sound you sometimes hear at a rally when downshifting, a serie of small "explosions". I think it's the sound of unburned fuel hitting the exhaustpipe.

Is there someone who can help me out? My dad also has felt it and he thinks it's quite annoying.

To make it easier, here a some specs:

Z3 M Roadster, 1998, with euro specs (321hp)
aprox. 30k miles
Fuel is unleaded 98 octane.

-No engine mods
-No exhaust mods

Thank you all for your help,



(I'm very sorry, but I'm dutch so I don't know all the grammar and words. Hope you still know what I'm talking about )

EDIT: I seem to have made a misstake in my username too, stupid me

Last edited by AndyM; 12-11-2007 at 06:27 AM. Reason: dutchmroadster's request
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  #2  
Old 01-21-2005, 06:02 AM
dutchmroadter dutchmroadter is offline
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There must be at least one out of the 72 viewers who has an idea?
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  #3  
Old 01-21-2005, 07:03 AM
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Randy Forbes Randy Forbes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchmroadter
There must be at least one out of the 72 viewers who has an idea?
Apparently not...

If the engine has developed a fault code in the DME, your local dealer should be able to determine its cause.

Most of the viewers on this forum have never seen the engine in your (European) car, and therefore would have no experience diagnosing its misfire. Good luck though!
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  #4  
Old 01-21-2005, 07:04 AM
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rjcoston rjcoston is offline
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There are so many possibilities of what could be causing it that it would be difficult to give you a meaningful answer. For example, it is probably related to fuel or electrical. You might try a gas additive that removes water from the fuel system to see if that helps. Otherwise, you should take the car to a competent mechanic who would have a code reader or otherwise be able to diagnose the problem. Good luck.
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  #5  
Old 01-21-2005, 10:39 AM
dutchmroadter dutchmroadter is offline
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Thanks anyway guys!

We're going to the dealer next week to sort it out. I was hoping that this was a known problem, so that there was a sollution. Although we can't fix it by ourself, it had reduced the labor costs

Just an other question:

Isn't the s54 (the US version with 315 ? hp?) the same as the european? My guess is that they don't build different engines just voor the US only, so this must be the same.

Ciao!

Nick
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  #6  
Old 01-21-2005, 10:50 AM
De'Auntre De'Auntre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchmroadter
Isn't the s54 (the US version with 315 ? hp?) the same as the european? My guess is that they don't build different engines just voor the US only, so this must be the same.

Ciao!

Nick
Your 1998 M likely is engined with the S50 (B32)... that powerplant was not marketed in America.
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  #7  
Old 01-21-2005, 01:01 PM
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rjcoston rjcoston is offline
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Here's some additional information on the differences between the European and US engines:

http://www.bmwmregistry.com/model_faq.php?id=16
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  #8  
Old 01-21-2005, 02:14 PM
Z3Papa Z3Papa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchmroadter
Hello everyone!

First of all let me introduce myself. My name is Nick, I'm 19yrs old and I come from the Netherlands. Before you might think I'm a spoiled brat: the M Roadster isn't mine, it's mums .

I do have a question though. Recently I was driving the Z3M and when I got off the highway, something strange occured. At low rpm the car was kind of hassitating, you could feel it was holding back and he refused to react on the gaspedal. When I pressed the pedal harder, the engine released 'full power' again a didn't had the problem anymore. My guess is that the fuel injectors are putting to much fuel to the engine, because of the sound the exhaust makes. A kind of sound you sometimes hear at a rally when downshifting, a serie of small "explosions". I think it's the sound of unburned fuel hitting the exhaustpipe.

Is there someone who can help me out? My dad also has felt it and he thinks it's quite annoying.

To make it easier, here a some specs:

Z3 M Roadster, 1998, with euro specs (321hp)
aprox. 30k miles
Fuel is unleaded 98 octane.

-No engine mods
-No exhaust mods

Thank you all for your help,




(I'm very sorry, but I'm dutch so I don't know all the grammar and words. Hope you still know what I'm talking about )

EDIT: I seem to have made a misstake in my username too, stupid me

I guess I was not aware the European 98 M version had 321 HP. Is that correct? What is the specs of a 2001 or 2002 Euro M?
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  #9  
Old 01-21-2005, 02:48 PM
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samer555 samer555 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3Papa
I guess I was not aware the European 98 M version had 321 HP. Is that correct? What is the specs of a 2001 or 2002 Euro M?
European-spec S54 versions are rated at 325 hp
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  #10  
Old 01-22-2005, 02:08 AM
dutchmroadter dutchmroadter is offline
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That's a very usefull site! Thank you!

So the difference between the Euro S54 and the US s54 is the place of the cat? I always thought the lower octane level of US fuel was to blame for this!

What happens when you upgrade the ECU? Because euro spec cars can reach up to 351hp (DIN) with just this modification! (so I'm told )

And are you allowed to remove the cat?

Regards..
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  #11  
Old 01-24-2005, 07:44 PM
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Pinecone Pinecone is offline
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Also the difference in rating systems. US uses SAE Net, Euro uses DIN. In this range about 5 HP difference in rating.

US E46 M3 S54 333 SAE Net HP, 338 DIN HP. Euro E46 M3 S54 343 DIN HP, 338 SAE Net HP. Or real difference of 5 HP in either system.

So Euro E36 M3 Evo or MZ3 (up to 2000) is 321 DIN HP or about 316 SAE Net. MZ3 (post 2000), US 315 SAE net or 320 DIN, Euro 325 DIN or about 320 SAE Net, again the 5 HP difference due to cat placement.

WRT octane, again different rating. Euro use RON, US used AKI which is the average of RON and MON. BMW found that even with the proper RON, but low MON long high speed runs caused engine failure. So they spec RON of 98 with a minimum MON of 10 lower or 88. AKI of such fuel is 98+88/2 = 93 which is the US premium in most of the country. So we actually have the same octane fuel as Europe does.

And we do have at limited stations 98-100 AKI fuels. Which are in the 103-105 RON range.
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  #12  
Old 01-24-2005, 07:55 PM
Lanc3r Lanc3r is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone
Also the difference in rating systems. US uses SAE Net, Euro uses DIN. In this range about 5 HP difference in rating.

US E46 M3 S54 333 SAE Net HP, 338 DIN HP. Euro E46 M3 S54 343 DIN HP, 338 SAE Net HP. Or real difference of 5 HP in either system.

So Euro E36 M3 Evo or MZ3 (up to 2000) is 321 DIN HP or about 316 SAE Net. MZ3 (post 2000), US 315 SAE net or 320 DIN, Euro 325 DIN or about 320 SAE Net, again the 5 HP difference due to cat placement.

WRT octane, again different rating. Euro use RON, US used AKI which is the average of RON and MON. BMW found that even with the proper RON, but low MON long high speed runs caused engine failure. So they spec RON of 98 with a minimum MON of 10 lower or 88. AKI of such fuel is 98+88/2 = 93 which is the US premium in most of the country. So we actually have the same octane fuel as Europe does.

And we do have at limited stations 98-100 AKI fuels. Which are in the 103-105 RON range.



I am humbled.
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  #13  
Old 01-26-2005, 12:52 PM
Mike S Mike S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone
Also the difference in rating systems. US uses SAE Net, Euro uses DIN. In this range about 5 HP difference in rating.

US E46 M3 S54 333 SAE Net HP, 338 DIN HP. Euro E46 M3 S54 343 DIN HP, 338 SAE Net HP. Or real difference of 5 HP in either system.

So Euro E36 M3 Evo or MZ3 (up to 2000) is 321 DIN HP or about 316 SAE Net. MZ3 (post 2000), US 315 SAE net or 320 DIN, Euro 325 DIN or about 320 SAE Net, again the 5 HP difference due to cat placement.

WRT octane, again different rating. Euro use RON, US used AKI which is the average of RON and MON. BMW found that even with the proper RON, but low MON long high speed runs caused engine failure. So they spec RON of 98 with a minimum MON of 10 lower or 88. AKI of such fuel is 98+88/2 = 93 which is the US premium in most of the country. So we actually have the same octane fuel as Europe does.

And we do have at limited stations 98-100 AKI fuels. Which are in the 103-105 RON range.
Which begs the question: does anyone know if problems result with the S52 if it sees 100 octane (US) fuel? Union 76 sells it here in California and I'm thinking of trying a bit to see if the car responds, but I'd hate to damage anything in the process.

For the record the car has Conforti Shark software, the S50 manifold / Eurosport OBDII adapter, and their intake supplied with the kit.

Mike
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  #14  
Old 01-26-2005, 10:14 PM
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phrider phrider is offline
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In the S54, it appears that you can blend it with ordinary premium up to about a 96 octane mix. Beyond 96, it is more money with not much additional benefit. The engine has to adapt to the higher octane, so the impact isn't immediately obvious until you run nearly empty and put in that fine California 91 premium. The engine then adapts downward in performance very quickly, and it is obvious.

The biggest problem appears to be damage to the pocket book.
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  #15  
Old 01-27-2005, 11:44 AM
JimR JimR is offline
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Octane and performance

I'm not an engineer (nor do I play one on TV), but I think my understanding of this is correct.

If you use a lower octane fuel, then once the computer gets signals from the knock sensors it begins to retard the ignition until the knocking is no longer heard. If you put fuel with a higher octane than recommended, the engine programming will only advance the ignition to what is programmed as the max allowable. Past that point it will not go.

So I guess I'd agree that the biggest hit is probably to your wallet, but not to the seat of your pants dyno.

At tracks where higher octane fuel has been available, I've experimented with putting it in. I have never noticed any great difference.
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Last edited by JimR; 01-27-2005 at 11:50 AM.
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  #16  
Old 01-27-2005, 10:08 PM
hokoman hokoman is offline
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I do have a question though. Recently I was driving the Z3M and when I got off the highway, something strange occured. At low rpm the car was kind of hassitating, you could feel it was holding back and he refused to react on the gaspedal. When I pressed the pedal harder, the engine released 'full power' again a didn't had the problem anymore. My guess is that the fuel injectors are putting to much fuel to the engine, because of the sound the exhaust makes. A kind of sound you sometimes hear at a rally when downshifting, a serie of small "explosions". I think it's the sound of unburned fuel hitting the exhaustpipe.


**I am not a car mechanic and don't know much about cars..... but... since the older cars (my 99 m coupe) have a cable driven gas pedal mechanism (don't know the proper term), could your cable to slack or loose? My car had a completely different powerband from a friends with the gas pedal. It would take a lot of pedal push from idle to about 3000rpms it would slowly climb, then after that the car jumped. My cable where it connects to the engine (like aforementioned, I don't know much about cars) was really loose and I turned a little screw to remove the slack (kinda like der. and brake adjustment barrels on bicycles) and what a difference from the moment I touch the gas......
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  #17  
Old 01-28-2005, 12:19 AM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hokoman
I do have a question though. Recently I was driving the Z3M and when I got off the highway, something strange occured. At low rpm the car was kind of hassitating, you could feel it was holding back and he refused to react on the gaspedal. When I pressed the pedal harder, the engine released 'full power' again a didn't had the problem anymore. My guess is that the fuel injectors are putting to much fuel to the engine, because of the sound the exhaust makes. A kind of sound you sometimes hear at a rally when downshifting, a serie of small "explosions". I think it's the sound of unburned fuel hitting the exhaustpipe.


**I am not a car mechanic and don't know much about cars..... but... since the older cars (my 99 m coupe) have a cable driven gas pedal mechanism (don't know the proper term), could your cable to slack or loose? My car had a completely different powerband from a friends with the gas pedal. It would take a lot of pedal push from idle to about 3000rpms it would slowly climb, then after that the car jumped. My cable where it connects to the engine (like aforementioned, I don't know much about cars) was really loose and I turned a little screw to remove the slack (kinda like der. and brake adjustment barrels on bicycles) and what a difference from the moment I touch the gas......
The lack of tension is by design.
While working on another car someone else working on his car in my garage adjusted the slack out. He ended up $450 flat bedding his car home when the cable broke after I nailed it in second. It took us an hour or so to idle back home, which really upset the meal preparer.

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  #18  
Old 01-28-2005, 01:51 PM
hokoman hokoman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Stygar
The lack of tension is by design.
While working on another car someone else working on his car in my garage adjusted the slack out. He ended up $450 flat bedding his car home when the cable broke after I nailed it in second. It took us an hour or so to idle back home, which really upset the meal preparer.


oh boy...... my cable was really slack though.... probably a good 1/2" of slack. Is that normal? i would hate to break something......
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