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E46 (1999 - 2006)
The fourth generation 3 Series (E46 chassis) was introduced in 1999 and set the standard for engineering and performance during it's years of production including being named to Car & Driver's 10 best list every one of those years! ! -- View the E46 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 01-31-2005, 07:59 AM
Carskibum Carskibum is offline
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What can I do for more performance?

I want to add some more power to my 323ci. What else besides cold air, exaust, chip, and turbo/super can u do. Can't afford the Turbo/ super right now. Any ideas?
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  #2  
Old 01-31-2005, 08:15 AM
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Spiderm0n Spiderm0n is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carskibum
I want to add some more power to my 323ci. What else besides cold air, exaust, chip, and turbo/super can u do. Can't afford the Turbo/ super right now. Any ideas?
have you done all of those things?
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  #3  
Old 01-31-2005, 08:25 AM
Lanc3r Lanc3r is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carskibum
I want to add some more power to my 323ci. What else besides cold air, exaust, chip, and turbo/super can u do. Can't afford the Turbo/ super right now. Any ideas?

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...erfest+sticker

I heard these are good for at LEAST 10 hp.
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  #4  
Old 01-31-2005, 11:21 AM
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norihaga norihaga is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carskibum
I want to add some more power to my 323ci. What else besides cold air, exaust, chip, and turbo/super can u do. Can't afford the Turbo/ super right now. Any ideas?
Most efficient method, without being trite about it, is to sell the 323ci in spring and buy a 330ci or an E36 M3 coupe. Probably cheaper than a s/c kit installed, and less likely to go pop. Also a better investment since the 330/M3 will retain part of whatever additional value you put in to do the trade, whereas a s/c kit isn't likely to retain much or any of its value.

I've never priced it, but perhaps an engine swap to a junkyard 330 engine would be more efficient?

If you want to improve the power-to-weight ratio, the cheapest way might be to strip out the car (although I don't know what the potential weight savings actually are, never having tried it), but of course you have to be extremely dedicated to live with that on a daily driver!

If you're bored, you could always spend the money on additional track days ...
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  #5  
Old 01-31-2005, 11:23 AM
philippek philippek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norihaga
Most efficient method, without being trite about it, is to sell the 323ci in spring and buy a 330ci or an E36 M3 coupe.
x 1000
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  #6  
Old 01-31-2005, 12:30 PM
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norihaga norihaga is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philippek
x 1000
...or even better, buy a used ZHP!
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  #7  
Old 02-01-2005, 10:14 AM
kenzo kenzo is offline
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Mein Auto: 2000 323 cabrio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carskibum
I want to add some more power to my 323ci. What else besides cold air, exaust, chip, and turbo/super can u do. Can't afford the Turbo/ super right now. Any ideas?
After asking my mechanic so many many many times about how to find more horse/Torque out of my 323ci, I am kind of give up on that. I have put into a Conforti CAI, Shark ECU ugrade, Turner light weight flywheel, and the light wheel pulley set. A slight improvement is found but not significant. About cat-back or exhaust, it will improve the exhaust note, but not really on engine power. Putting a turbo/supercharger is the most effective way, but I can't (at least for myself) believe myself driving a Non-N/A Bimmer.
Camshaft?? Okay, then you better pick up the valve spring and etc etc.....
After driving my 3600lbs 323 cabrio for 4 years, I realized one thing, it's not the power that makes me happy, it's because it's a Bimmer!
If I really wanna go for more horse, I'll start saving money for a 330 or M3.

Have Fun with it cos no cars handle like Bimmer!

P.S. Sorry it's such a long one.
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  #8  
Old 02-01-2005, 12:26 PM
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norihaga norihaga is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenzo
After asking my mechanic so many many many times about how to find more horse/Torque out of my 323ci, I am kind of give up on that. I have put into a Conforti CAI, Shark ECU ugrade, Turner light weight flywheel, and the light wheel pulley set. A slight improvement is found but not significant. About cat-back or exhaust, it will improve the exhaust note, but not really on engine power. Putting a turbo/supercharger is the most effective way, but I can't (at least for myself) believe myself driving a Non-N/A Bimmer.
Camshaft?? Okay, then you better pick up the valve spring and etc etc.....
Werd.

And I posted this link recently, but if you haven't read it, check out this old thread... and the .pdfs posted thereon.
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  #9  
Old 02-01-2005, 02:05 PM
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The Roadstergal The Roadstergal is offline
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More performance? Driving schools.
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  #10  
Old 02-01-2005, 02:09 PM
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HW HW is offline
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Mein Auto: 323ci, manual
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carskibum
I want to add some more power to my 323ci. What else besides cold air, exaust, chip, and turbo/super can u do. Can't afford the Turbo/ super right now. Any ideas?
i changed my wheels to lighter ones. i wouldn't mind swapping in a compact spare as well.
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  #11  
Old 02-17-2005, 08:45 PM
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operknockity operknockity is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Roadstergal
More performance? Driving schools.
Werd! Just ask Stuka how many E36/E46 M3s he's pwnzed in his lowly E30 325is
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  #12  
Old 02-17-2005, 08:53 PM
jetstream23 jetstream23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumratt
buy a 330. Serioulsy. For the money you're spending on mods you could have bought a 330.
And with the $3,800 incentive you can easily negotiate a 330i ZHP in the $35-36K range BRAND NEW if you didn't want too many options. You could trade in your 323 and then already be at 235 HP without adding anything.
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  #13  
Old 02-17-2005, 08:59 PM
jenSWflorida jenSWflorida is offline
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Mein Auto: BMW 323 ci
Exclamation Aaaggh!!!

Some TAURUS beat me at a red light. How can that happen?!?!?!? Do I need a tune up or something??
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  #14  
Old 02-17-2005, 10:59 PM
CRZY BMW CRZY BMW is offline
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Mein Auto: BMW 3 Series
330

Dont get me wrong, I LOVE my 323i, but it just doesn't have a lot of power and its not worth modding IMO... I'm going to sell within the year and upgrade to a 330i...

Probably not what you wanted to hear...
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  #15  
Old 02-17-2005, 11:08 PM
nosoule46 nosoule46 is offline
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Mein Auto: '01 325 SDN ZSP
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenSWflorida
Some TAURUS beat me at a red light. How can that happen?!?!?!? Do I need a tune up or something??
Dude, it better have been a SHO (S*** Head Ogre)
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  #16  
Old 02-18-2005, 01:46 AM
Masko Masko is offline
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Mein Auto: 01 TiSil 325ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by HW
i changed my wheels to lighter ones. i wouldn't mind swapping in a compact spare as well.
I heard that. one way to increase performance is obviously reduce weight in your car. Take out the spare tire, get lighter wheels, invest in carbon fiber (like it really makes much of a difference), lose weight.


first post on these forums
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  #17  
Old 02-18-2005, 05:22 AM
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Artslinger Artslinger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenSWflorida
Some TAURUS beat me at a red light. How can that happen?!?!?!? Do I need a tune up or something??

Dude there are tons of crappy cheapo American cars that can kill you of the line, does that make these cars better somehow? Look at it this way... you can better them in two other categories on the highway and the twisties.
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  #18  
Old 02-18-2005, 09:09 AM
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brave1heart brave1heart is offline
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Lighter wheels will help noticeably.
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'01 325i: Orient Blue/black, SP, M stress bar, UUC sways, TMS camber plates, TMS rear sub reinf kit, CAI, Shark, Borla, Dunlop Direzza 245/40/17 on 17x8 O.Z. Superleggeras

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My performance driving site: www.OneHotLap.com
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  #19  
Old 02-18-2005, 09:16 AM
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Fifty_Cent Fifty_Cent is offline
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323i's were stranded by the factory deliberately to give way to the 328i....

What the factory did was to put a "restricted" intake and re-mapped ECU.
Best bet for the 323i is to change the intake with one of a 328i and add a good ECU chip. You will go up straight to 190 bhp.(325i)

Cheap and efficient.
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  #20  
Old 02-18-2005, 09:34 AM
Staszek Staszek is offline
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I hate some of these answers, sell your car???

Does anyone think he might be happy with his car? I know I am with mine, I plus its PAID OFF!!

Give him some answers to what he can do with what he has.

There are several people I have seen who have made the 323 (as long as its a manual) quite quick

Look up Slow323 on the e46fanatics board.

He has simple bolt ons, Conforti Intake, Shark, Exhaust, and Differential, did everything for under $2000 and his car runs with 330's.

Many of you probably havent even seen a Dyno of a 323, they not far off from the 328's at all. Dont look at marketing literature.

Also a 323 is the lightest of the US based 3's, mine weighs under 3200 pds. I love my tight steering and non drive by wire

Now that being said, if its a step there isnt much you can do except Supercharge.
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  #21  
Old 02-18-2005, 09:46 AM
Staszek Staszek is offline
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Just something to read from a friend on the other boards

"These are BMW's factory spec marketing numbers, nothing more.

Here are three different dyno results from three different cars ('00 323, '02 325 and '02 330), courtesy of www.aatuning.com:

3000 rpm:
323 - 160.3 tq, 91.5 hp
325 - 158.2 tq, 90.4 hp
330 - 185.5 tq, 105.9 hp

4500 rpm:
323 - 158.3 tq, 135.7 hp
325 - 157.8 tq, 135.2 hp
330 - 186.3 tq, 159.6 hp

5500 rpm:
323 - 146.3 tq, 153.2 hp
325 - 149.2 tq, 156.1 hp
330 - 177.4 tq, 185.7 hp

Look at how flat the torque curves are for all three cars!

I'll leave it to you to decide whether the 323 actually has only 170 hp (it doesn't) or that the 325 actually has only 175 torque (it doesn't). 325 has slightly more top end (6000-6500 rpm) power. Unfortunately, the dyno run for this 323 begins winding down just before 6k so the results for the 323 are off past 5500 (peak power). Regardless, we could probably expect the 325 to put down somewhere around 165 for horsepower at around 6k and the 323 would max at just under or around 160. Also important to note that the torque differences between the two at those rpms would be in-line with the formula posted above. Using standard loss rates, this 323 is good for about 184 hp/195 tq at the crank, the 325 at 193 hp/195 tq, and the 330 at 231 hp/231 tq.

My car personally outscored both of these cars when I did a dyno run, by about 2 ft-lbs of peak torque and 3 hp. However, I'm not using my car as an example because it was run on a different dyno under different conditions than these cars.

Also, the 330 peaks at around 6000, I believe, but it's run also ended early. At the rate this particular car was dynoing, we'd have seen 191-194 hp or so, which is very typical for a stock manual 330."
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  #22  
Old 02-18-2005, 10:18 AM
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machmeter machmeter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philippek
x 1000
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  #23  
Old 02-18-2005, 10:00 PM
kris6957 kris6957 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Staszek
I hate some of these answers, sell your car???

Does anyone think he might be happy with his car? I know I am with mine, I plus its PAID OFF!!

Give him some answers to what he can do with what he has.

There are several people I have seen who have made the 323 (as long as its a manual) quite quick

Look up Slow323 on the e46fanatics board.

He has simple bolt ons, Conforti Intake, Shark, Exhaust, and Differential, did everything for under $2000 and his car runs with 330's.

Many of you probably havent even seen a Dyno of a 323, they not far off from the 328's at all. Dont look at marketing literature.

Also a 323 is the lightest of the US based 3's, mine weighs under 3200 pds. I love my tight steering and non drive by wire

Now that being said, if its a step there isnt much you can do except Supercharge.

No, I believe there is something we can do (I own a 323i with a Step) and here is what I am doing. My mechanic races bimmers and is good at what he does. I toyed with the FI thing, but in the end decided that I wanted my car to last and as some one put it, "not go boom".

As far as the recommendations to buy another car......hahh. Just look at the economics after depreciation etc, compared to what you spend on mods. I fully expect my NA modded 323 to keep up with 330's. Not M3's, mind you, but 330's.

OK, here is the plan:

1) 256/264 Shrick Cams. Cost installed: $1960. Not cheap, but the lion share of the hp will come from this. The air intake injectors, and chip will be leaveraged also. The previous statement about having to get new springs and lifters is incorrect. That is only true if you wnat to increase the stock redline so the valves do not float. My springs and lifters will be stock.

2) 24lb fuel injectors. Cost installed: $500

3) UUC under drive pulleys: $160. Easy DIY

4) The newly designed CAI from UUC. I spoke with Rob today and he is thinking he will have the first batch in the end of the first week of March. Cost unknown, probably around $400. DIY Install.

5) Shark it. $350

TOTAL COST: $3370 ESTIMATED HP GAINS: 35-40. Maybe that does not sound like much, but it is 20% or more.

My cams should be in in 6 to 8 weeks and the work will beging then.

Some noteable things that are left off are:

1) Ported and polished heads. My mechanic told me that the M52U heads are very efficient, and you would only see maybe 6 hp. Not worth the cost. Head runs $950 at technick and then you have to put it on.

2) Headers and exhaust. Again, minimal gain for the money. Cat back system only gives maybe 4 hp. Headers give more, but lots of labor to put on. If you really want to do it right you need the racing cats, which are big bucks, but your car will sound like it should be in NASCAR.

Now, for the icing on the cake: 3.91 custom differential. Since we both have autos, we are running 3.46 rear ends. Cost is not cheap at $2000, but well worth it. I don't have the cash right now to do it, but I plan to put one on the later half of the year.

I can hear the FI guys screaming, "for that much money you could have a SC!". Well, not really. I'm spending around $5500 with the diff. A SC would cost me $6000 pluse another $1000 to install.

My main reason for not going FI is the reliablity of the car over a long period (complexity and strain on it), the longevity of the engine and step (I would like my engine to last another 100K miles), and this is important, I have no local support here. If I lived close to AA, Technick, Turner, etc, I might do it. I drive my car everyday and cant wait for email responses, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it would be a kick in the ass to drive, we just all have to make choices that we are comfortable with.

I think the fun level will surely pick up this spring :-)
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  #24  
Old 02-21-2005, 06:38 AM
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norihaga norihaga is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kris6957
As far as the recommendations to buy another car......hahh. Just look at the economics after depreciation etc, compared to what you spend on mods. I fully expect my NA modded 323 to keep up with 330's. Not M3's, mind you, but 330's.
That's just it - no-one will pay a $5,000 premium for a heavily-modified 323, and in fact, if he tries to sell his car with extensive modifications, there's likely to be a price penalty, as buyers sensibly speculate as to what sort of muppet did the work, and the number of miles before the car grenades on them.

Of course, you can convert it back to stock and sell all the performance parts on e-bay, but the more extensive your modifications, the more that's going to cost you.
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  #25  
Old 02-21-2005, 06:44 AM
Staszek Staszek is offline
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Location: Princeton, NJ
 
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Mein Auto: Something German
Quote:
Originally Posted by norihaga
That's just it - no-one will pay a $5,000 premium for a heavily-modified 323, and in fact, if he tries to sell his car with extensive modifications, there's likely to be a price penalty, as buyers sensibly speculate as to what sort of muppet did the work, and the number of miles before the car grenades on them.

Of course, you can convert it back to stock and sell all the performance parts on e-bay, but the more extensive your modifications, the more that's going to cost you.

Its still not going to equal the price of an M3 or new 330. You can never think of a car as an investment, unless its a classic.
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