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E46 (1999 - 2006)
The fourth generation 3 Series (E46 chassis) was introduced in 1999 and set the standard for engineering and performance during it's years of production including being named to Car & Driver's 10 best list every one of those years! ! -- View the E46 Wiki

View Poll Results: Favorite ZHP feature
10HP & 8 ft/lb of torque & 6800 redline 16 16.16%
Style M 135 18" wheels 15 15.15%
3.07:1 differential 2 2.02%
MTech spoilers 23 23.23%
Black Cube or Silver Cube trim 3 3.03%
M alcantra steering wheel 4 4.04%
Alcantra & Cloth interior 14 14.14%
M suspension 22 22.22%
Voters: 99. You may not vote on this poll

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  #26  
Old 02-10-2005, 03:26 PM
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Aknatar Aknatar is offline
Eat my special ZHP shorts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluetree211
The retail price for the M68 17" rim is actually MORE than the M135 18", an upgrade for you but BMW's cost hasn't changed.

Should BMW really be allowed to charge all that money for what they could have swapped for free? The only upgrade I see is the leatherette -> cloth interior, which I believe is the most significant part of their cost.

I think wheel costs are pretty negligible overall, but you're right, if I could have had them swapped at the factory no cost, I would have opted for that, but since I couldn't and I liked everything about the ZHP in addition to the wheels, I went for the package. Damn those BMW profit machines...
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  #27  
Old 02-10-2005, 03:28 PM
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Aknatar Aknatar is offline
Eat my special ZHP shorts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluetree211
Im not trying to convince you that you overpaid, Im saying that BMW is overcharging. If I'm thirsty in the movie theater, I have to buy a large soda for $4. Shame on me for paying, or shame on the theater for setting that price?

If you paid what you feel was worth it, then there is no issue. Im just saying that you bought a $4 soda, so stop telling us what a great bargain it was.
Dammit, you read my post before I deleted it, but I like $4 soda analogy...just apply it to the entire car, and that's my idea of BMW....and I'm not trying to convince you it was a bargain, just saying that it would have been more expensive to do it piecemeal (sp?)
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  #28  
Old 02-10-2005, 03:30 PM
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Aknatar Aknatar is offline
Eat my special ZHP shorts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluetree211
$4 soda
$3.90 to be exact
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  #29  
Old 02-10-2005, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aknatar
$3.90 to be exact
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  #30  
Old 02-10-2005, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aknatar
$3.90 to be exact
Oooh, I feel sooo violated! My theater charges 4.25.




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  #31  
Old 02-10-2005, 03:58 PM
Alex Baumann Alex Baumann is offline
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Hello,

The 'M' suspension that comes in the ZHP is not the same suspension which comes in the M cars from the factory.

Although the ZHP suspension is a tad different than the Sport Suspension, it is not an M Suspension.

Just for info.
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  #32  
Old 02-10-2005, 04:09 PM
allaboutme allaboutme is offline
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My favorite "feature" is the fact ZHP owners face such ominous rebuttals to anything posted (but perhaps with reason).

I love my 3 series.. by the way.. it's also a ZHP -> translated: it's also/it has the performance package. See how the context of the wording works?

If anyone wants to waste more time, try arguing how the RSX > M3 here: http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=235157
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  #33  
Old 02-10-2005, 04:15 PM
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Why isn't anyone voting for the cube trim?
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  #34  
Old 02-10-2005, 04:17 PM
allaboutme allaboutme is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moderato
Why isn't anyone voting for the cube trim?
I scratched mine when I accidently hit it with plastic. Although, to me, it gives the car more substance since it's actually a metal compared with the plastic as standard (or is that wood now). The wood is nice but my opinion is that the metal fits the image of the car better.
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  #35  
Old 02-10-2005, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ff
Upgraded? Is the M-Tech bumper "better" or more expensive to produce?
yes...it looks much better
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  #36  
Old 02-10-2005, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ff
Are the wheels better because they're an inch taller?
no, they're better because they're much better looking
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  #37  
Old 02-10-2005, 04:22 PM
alpinewhite325i alpinewhite325i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSPDiver
How is it possible to repeatedly argue over something so subjective as the value of the option package? If you compare the 3er to it's competition, you may say the BMW isn't worth the extra. If you compare cars to public transportation, you may say that owning a car isn't worth it. Screw it, let's all live under the freeway and eat grubs! That way we could never be though of as getting bad value for money.
Ever hear of the "Law of Diminishing Returns"?
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  #38  
Old 02-10-2005, 06:02 PM
allaboutme allaboutme is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinewhite325i
Ever hear of the "Law of Diminishing Returns"?
Yes... It doesn't make the Ferrari any less of a car.
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  #39  
Old 02-10-2005, 06:03 PM
maxcat maxcat is offline
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Complaints about ZHP pricing

This is my first post to this forum and I'm not sure what all the griping is about over the cost of the ZHP package. I'm taking delivery of my car next week and the dealer passed along the manufacturer to dealer incentive of $3,800. It seemed to me that I was getting the package for free.
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  #40  
Old 02-10-2005, 06:26 PM
allaboutme allaboutme is offline
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Well anyway.. to stay on topic.. having cloth seats is the #1 reason to get the package for me atleast. So many people complain about leather in the winter and summer.. leaving only two seasons of the year to not complain about their hide. If cloth had a luxury image to it I swear so many more people would choose that instead. The only other car available with cloth is the m3.
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  #41  
Old 02-10-2005, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moderato
Why isn't anyone voting for the cube trim?
Because I can only vote once. And there are other items I like MORE than the cube trim. If I am allowed to pick more than one, I probably would have checked them all. Yes, I like every one of the options in the package. And many of them are actually answers to my disliking of the standard 330i, eg. wood/plastic trim, chrome exterior trim, exhaust, etc.

Last edited by mkh; 02-10-2005 at 06:42 PM.
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  #42  
Old 02-10-2005, 06:35 PM
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Its true, those who order ZHP wouldn't get the car without sports seats (hence sports package). So at that point, its a few thousand dollars for nicer looking wheels (I was never a fan of SP wheels), M aero kit (including spoiler for those who like it), Imola Red option, Metal Cube trim, a nicer exhaust note, a little more power (and faster 0-60time), and better handling. The shorter throw shifter is also nice for those who dont want to go modding their cars with aftermarket parts. Toss in the fact that all mods are warrantied, and it justifies the price.

Sure this may not cost BMW much extra money, and hence gives them higher margins. But do you think Sports seats really cost that much more than regular? How about any of the other upgrades you can get for your cars? To BMW they are marginal costs. We as the consumers get stuck with the bill. that's how the world works.
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  #43  
Old 02-10-2005, 06:41 PM
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nah, not even close
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  #44  
Old 02-10-2005, 07:14 PM
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I voted wheels, seems like the thing that stands out about the car externally. If I had two choices I would have voted for the wheels and the suspension.

I could do without the cube trim, but interestingly this was the FIRST thing Mrs. Wingspan remarked on when she got in the car...?

But what do I know...
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  #45  
Old 02-10-2005, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinewhite325i
Ever hear of the "Law of Diminishing Returns"?
Yep. I don't think my car purchase and ownership are dimished in any way. You ever hear of the phrase, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder?" You substitute "Beauty" with "Value, and "beholder" with "buyer", and you have my point. Nobody in the world can possibly convince someone else (who doesn't already have buyer's remorse, or a weak will) that their preference is flawed because the cost seems too high for the package they got on their car. Is the ZSP that much better than the regular car? Is it really worth it?

I'm just saying that arguing over whether or not the ZHP package is worth it is stupid, and pointless as anything can possibly be.
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  #46  
Old 02-10-2005, 08:21 PM
Megatron Megatron is offline
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I'd say the factory installed MTechII kit is my favorite. Of course, I also like the 18" wheels and the M Steering Wheel and the Alcantara/Cloth seating surfaces. (Much better than Leatherette's feel and I'm not a fan of leather seating surfaces)

I dunno why people complain the ZHP isn't worth the cost. If you like modding your vehicle yourself, then yes, it is overpriced because I'm sure you cna get a lot of aftermarket parts and install it yourself and get more bang for the buck. But if you don't want to modify your vehicle yourself or have any buddies who can do it for you, the ZHP is worth the cost. I know I'm not going to install the aero kit myself and no way would I want to disassemble the engine to install new camshafts. If I get the dealer to do it, they'll charge me an arm and leg. And no, I don't want to take my vehicle in to any auto shop just to get them to do it for cheaper because they may screw up my car. I'll stick with the factory installed options.

If you still think the ZHP isn't worth the money, why don't you question why you own a BMW in the first place since that costs way more than the competitors? (Is that precise steering feel or crisp handling BMWs have really worth that much more than the competitors?) If you look at other vehicles like the Acura TL (ignoring the fact it is front wheel drive), it appears you get a lot more car for your money than what BMW offers.
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  #47  
Old 02-10-2005, 11:49 PM
jetstream23 jetstream23 is offline
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There are 5 different features in the poll with more than 15% of the vote each. That tells me that this really is a great PACKAGE and not just a one hit wonder. Some people love the alcantara, some the suspension, some the M-tech aero kit and wheels.....I am a fan of the entire deal and I'm glad it ONLY took BMW until about 2003 to finally come out with this ZHP package.
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  #48  
Old 02-10-2005, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluetree211
The retail price for the M68 17" rim is actually MORE than the M135 18", an upgrade for you but BMW's cost hasn't changed.

Should BMW really be allowed to charge all that money for what they could have swapped for free? The only upgrade I see is the leatherette -> cloth interior, which I believe is the most significant part of their cost.
If the 2.5L engine gets the same fuel economy as the 3.0L, why even build it?

Does the 3.0L engine actually cost more to engineer and mfg than the 2.5L? It would be cheaper to engineer and offer 1 engine as in the TL and G35.

It's all about marketing.
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  #49  
Old 02-10-2005, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetstream23
There are 5 different features in the poll with more than 15% of the vote each. That tells me that this really is a great PACKAGE and not just a one hit wonder. Some people love the alcantara, some the suspension, some the M-tech aero kit and wheels.....I am a fan of the entire deal and I'm glad it ONLY took BMW until about 2003 to finally come out with this ZHP package.
I agree. It's a nice extra package. In fact ZHP offers more features than the Sports package does (granted at a higher price). My only beef with the ZHP is that you have to get Alcantara on the M-wheel. It would have been nice if they offered a regular M-wheel for those who opted for leather interiors. But believe me that's only a small gripe. We'll see how I like the wheel when the car comes, and worst case scenario, I swap it out cheaply.
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  #50  
Old 02-11-2005, 12:08 AM
jetstream23 jetstream23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxcat
This is my first post to this forum and I'm not sure what all the griping is about over the cost of the ZHP package. I'm taking delivery of my car next week and the dealer passed along the manufacturer to dealer incentive of $3,800. It seemed to me that I was getting the package for free.

Same here.

Some people just like to nitpick things when it comes to ZHP's. My friend who has a late 2002 330i just missed the introduction of the ZHP package and he always said its not worth it, its just an upgraded sports package, etc. Then his girlfriend mentioned accidentally how he was researching "ZH something BMW's" and trying to do a trade with a dealer... He finally came to admit that, "the 330i ZHP is the closest thing you can get to an M3 with 4 doors." I also had him list the HP of available 3 series cars....

333 - M3
235 - 330 ZHP
225 - 330
184 - 325

I just looked at him and said "stop trying to fight it, you know you want one." He just smiled. Now I'm trying to help him find a good dealer in NJ where he can get into a ZHP before the incentives run out.

"If it looks like rain, feels like rain and tastes like rain.....its raining out"

"If it looks different than a regular 330, drives different and sounds different.....it IS different"
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