Why an E90??

In the February 14, 2005 hardcopy of Autoweek, it is stated that the BMW 130i going on sale in Europe this year and the U.S. next year will "pack a 3.0 liter, 258 hp, 221 lb ft inline six mated to a six-speed manual, which should be good for 0 to 60 mph in about 6.0 seconds".

Did I miss something here? Can this possibly be correct, that a 1 series would have more (or the same) power as an E90 330? Who in their right mind would buy an E90 325? (or 330 for that matter) Lets face it, most of us don't buy them for space, we buy them for performance.

The 1 series *must* be cheaper than a 3, correct?

It appears a 2006 1 series could keep even (or even beat) the current beloved ZHP?

Someone please explain if I'm missing something...

Acutally, I would by the E90 for space...a 1 series is WAY too small for my needs.

It is 258 DIN HP = 255 SAE HP, the latter is the norm, which is used in the USA.

In terms of luggage space and rear leg room, the E90 Sedan offers more space than the 1 Series.

Originally Posted by tagheuer

Lets face it, most of us don't buy them for space, we buy them for performance.

I think most people buy them for the space (and performance)

I don't think many people buy 3ers just for performance

Originally Posted by atyclb

I think most people buy them for the space (and performance)

I don't think many people buy 3ers just for performance

I respectfully disagree. If you wanted space, you'd buy something else. My 325 sedan is tiny, the back seat is about the same size as a Jetta!!

Personally, I bought mine for the handling (and its lived up to its sterling reputation)

Originally Posted by tagheuer

I respectfully disagree. If you wanted space, you'd buy something else. My 325 sedan is tiny, the back seat is about the same size as a Jetta!!

Personally, I bought mine for the handling (and its lived up to its sterling reputation)

there are many, many cars that handle much, much better than yours

BMWs are huge luxo-boats that happen to perform decently enough. Any BMW buyer is looking for practicailty and performance.

Ergo, the 130i may not be universally suitable.

Many many cars ? What are those ? Your statement sounds like BMW is at the bottom of that list.

Originally Posted by Alex Baumann

Many many cars ? What are those ? Your statement sounds like BMW is at the bottom of that list.

360, GT3, Elise, Boxster S, M3, Z4, miata, S2000, evo, corvette...

Originally Posted by atyclb

360, GT3, Elise, Boxster S, M3, Z4...

Ah yes, they are all 4 door sedans. Gotcha. And all similarly priced too.

Originally Posted by Alex Baumann

Ah yes, they are all 4 door sedans. Gotcha. And all similarly priced too.

that wasn't the argument--

original poster said that he didn't buy the 325i for those reasons

Originally Posted by atyclb

that wasn't the argument--

original poster said that he didn't buy the 325i for those reasons

But if you give examples such as the F360 or GT3, that will be an argument too.

That said, I agree with you. (#4)

Guys, Guys, Alex is dead on. Last time I checked this was bimmerfest.com, the 3 series forum. OBVIOUSLY I'm not comparing the handling of my 325i ZSP with the cars you mentioned (although I currently own an S2000 and have owned a Miata and I can say the Bimmer compares quite favorably to both). I'm comparing it with similar priced/size sedans and/or coupes. (ie Infiniti, Acura, MB, Lexus)

I accept the sedan argument on preferring an E90 over a 1 series, but how about a coupe? Would you buy an E90 *coupe* over a 1 series even though the 1 series has a much better power to weight ratio? I guess the only reason you would is for looks....

Comparing the 1 to a 3 is like comparing a Mini to a 3. If all you want is performance BMW that is cheap (relative) then yes, the 1 series is the way to go. If you need practical performance, then forget about it.

Using this argument of getting a 1 instead of a 3 because of performance, then why does anyone buy a 525i over a 330i? Both have a useful back seat.

Ok, let's bring the 1-series performance argument in again.

How can a 330i and a 130i have the exact same performance numbers considering their size and weight differences? They have the exact same engines...this ultimately destroys any competitive uniqueness the 3 series has now that the 1-series is a cheaper, same performance, same build quality and engineering alternative.

Originally Posted by Fzara2000

Ok, let's bring the 1-series performance argument in again.

How can a 330i and a 130i have the exact same performance numbers considering their size and weight differences? They have the exact same engines...this ultimately destroys any competitive uniqueness the 3 series has now that the 1-series is a cheaper, same performance, same build quality and engineering alternative.

wasn't there a similar situation with the 5er ws the 3er?

the e46 coupe rear is relatively roomie. it's bigger than the a4 and my old integra sedan. i am sure that the 3er will have more luxo features than the 1er in the same way that the 5er is a step up from the 3er.

The "small" BMW used to be the three series and before that, the 2002.

The only reason a one series is now possible is the three keeps growing in size.

BMW is not the only car maker with this situation, the current Honda Civic is significantly larger than the first Accords. Honda, too, is talking about a new entry-level model.

Our current E46 is a luxo-barge compared to the 2002 my friend had back in 1976.

Ed

Many people bought 525i over 330i even though it's slower and more expensive. You can't apply your own measure of things to what other people's preferences are.
Having said that, I think E46 is big enough. I would not want anything bigger. Then again I come from Europe so most US cars seem like monsters to me hence my scale maybe very different than yours. Cars size of E46, Jetta etc are on the larger scale to me and are more than enough for my needs (me, wife and baby).
And no, people don't buy BMWs for performance. If that's what they say or think they must be really crazy. It's a very practical (especially 4 door or touring) everyday car that happens to do most of the things very correctly, is solidly engineered and put together and gives you a lot of fun while satisfying your transportation needs. It is the best car in THIS segment IMO. But it is not a performance vehicle nor is it intended to be one.

Originally Posted by Wallenrod

Many people bought 525i over 330i even though it's slower and more expensive. You can't apply your own measure of things to what other people's preferences are.
Having said that, I think E46 is big enough. I would not want anything bigger. Then again I come from Europe so most US cars seem like monsters to me hence my scale maybe very different than yours. Cars size of E46, Jetta etc are on the larger scale to me and are more than enough for my needs (me, wife and baby).
And no, people don't buy BMWs for performance. If that's what they say or think they must be really crazy. It's a very practical (especially 4 door or touring) everyday car that happens to do most of the things very correctly, is solidly engineered and put together and gives you a lot of fun while satisfying your transportation needs. It is the best car in THIS segment IMO. But it is not a performance vehicle nor is it intended to be one.

... more people bought the 530i over the 525i in the E39 production run, at least in the USA. So the argument of "people don't buy BMW's for performance" don't hold too much water. If anything, people buy BMW for practicability and performance.

Originally Posted by tagheuer

Guys, Guys, Alex is dead on. Last time I checked this was bimmerfest.com, the 3 series forum. OBVIOUSLY I'm not comparing the handling of my 325i ZSP with the cars you mentioned (although I currently own an S2000 and have owned a Miata and I can say the Bimmer compares quite favorably to both). I'm comparing it with similar priced/size sedans and/or coupes. (ie Infiniti, Acura, MB, Lexus)

I accept the sedan argument on preferring an E90 over a 1 series, but how about a coupe? Would you buy an E90 *coupe* over a 1 series even though the 1 series has a much better power to weight ratio? I guess the only reason you would is for looks....

Right. Quite simple: The 1 is butt-ugly. The 3 (E90) is quite nice.

Originally Posted by tagheuer

I accept the sedan argument on preferring an E90 over a 1 series, but how about a coupe? Would you buy an E90 *coupe* over a 1 series even though the 1 series has a much better power to weight ratio? I guess the only reason you would is for looks....

The coupe back seat is pretty comfy and roughly the same amount of space as the sedan, the only issue is getting back there. I believe the trunk is the same size in the sedan and coupe. I didn't buy my car strictly for performance either. It's a practical, handsome, reasonably economical every day car that is really a lot of fun to drive, and alll those things were part of my selection considerations. A 1er would be smaller than what I want for this sort of car.

I think I may want one of each. Eventually, I might buy an E90 as an everyday family car (for the extra space) and a used 130i as a track car (cheaper, smaller, lighter, quicker).

If they brought the the 130i here, with the 255hp motor, then it would be a great car for people who would have bought a Z coupe.

If they bring an M version of it here, I'll replace my e90 with it in 3 or 4 years. Kids or not, that's probably going to be too good of a car to pass up. Besides, my oldest will be driving by then, and there will likely be a e30 in the house for kid toting.

Two things (I did read that issue of Autoweek, by the way). First, the One Series with the R6 3.0L motor will be a rocket, but I would look for a bit more room and, thus, am interested in the 330i. So, for me, space, and a longer wheel base (more cush for the tush) make the 3 Series more attractive. Am I getting too old? Yeah, maybe so. I drive a Z4 and a recent trip from Philly down to Baltimore and back had me thinking about a touch more comfort (just to show you how stupid all of this is, YES, my Z4 has the SportPak and is a bit jouncy/bouncy).

Second, don't you think that 0-60 time of 6.0 seconds looks a bit high? The One Series with 3.0L motor would be close to weighing about what a Z4 weighs. I don't know numbers, here, but that would seem reasonable, correct? 255hp and gobs of torque (Geez, I don't care if it's running a 2.75 back end) in a small vehicle like the One Series should show sub-6 second numbers. Don't ya think?

Allow me one more thought: how are they going to price the 3.0L One Series? BMW will have to be very careful. I can see a fully loaded 130i (is that what it's called?) coming in close to the price of a base 325i and in that case, the market place will answer your question about whether buyers want performance or size. 325i sales could be hurt badly.