Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series

3 Series / 4 Series
The 3 Series / 4 Series Forum. If you would like to see all new posts in all the forums, click here.

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-30-2002, 01:26 PM
Magna's Avatar
Magna Magna is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Boston
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 498
Mein Auto: 2004 325xi
opinions on the dinan engine software

i attended a talk given by steve dinan and i am intrigued by the engine software. i am interested in the software for better trottle response. basically he said that BMW's software is written for average driver and to control emissions, while his software is more oriented for performance. he doesn't directly claim a hp increase. he said the software would help with acceleration (and that in turn would increase hp).
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 06-30-2002, 02:31 PM
31st330i 31st330i is offline
Now with Nano
Location: East Bay
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,310
Mein Auto: 2001 330i
Re: opinions on the dinan engine software

Quote:
Originally posted by Magna
he said the software would help with acceleration (and that in turn would increase hp).
you should have asked him to explain this. the software makes no HP as stated on their web site. the way that it might affect acceleration (and it would likely depend on the driver) is that it increases the red-line by 240RPM and therefore your shift point (albeit slightly). that's really splitting hairs, though and unless you competed for a living or even a hoby, the cost may not be worth the miniscule advantage under extreme conditions. you can also "accelerate" past the previously governed top speed.

since the throttle doesn't open any further (doesn't actually let any more air in), I'm not sure what the recalibrated EML does that the driver can't already compensate for with his/her foot on the accelerator pedal.
__________________
  #3  
Old 06-30-2002, 03:17 PM
Magna's Avatar
Magna Magna is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Boston
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 498
Mein Auto: 2004 325xi
31st330i:

Thanks for your feedback, by the way, we have the same color car, except mine is a 323i.

I don't particularly like the slow trottle response from the BMW software when I rev-match on downshifts, but reading your webpage and other feedback, I don't think I am going to get it. I've read that Dinan's software makes the trottle response quicker only the up (opening), while others have said the software only affects the trottle on the down (closing). All the uncertainties doesn't make me comfortable.
  #4  
Old 06-30-2002, 04:05 PM
31st330i 31st330i is offline
Now with Nano
Location: East Bay
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,310
Mein Auto: 2001 330i
Re: 31st330i:

Quote:
Originally posted by Magna
I've read that Dinan's software makes the trottle response quicker only the up (opening), while others have said the software only affects the trottle on the down (closing). All the uncertainties doesn't make me comfortable.
I don't quite understand what you mean here (sounds like you might understand it either). to the best of my knowledge, the net effect of the recalibrated EML is that the throttle valve reacts more agressivly to input at the electrically coupled accelerator pedal.

in the motorcycle world, the same thing is accomplished mechanically by changing the cam pulleys that actuate the throttle cable. the cam pulley in the hand grip can be made larger and/or the cam pulley on the carburetor cluster can be made smaller. this is very different from making the engine itself more responsive to the *same* movement of the throttle *valve*.
__________________
  #5  
Old 06-30-2002, 04:39 PM
nate's Avatar
nate nate is offline
I like cookies.
Location: Houston
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 18,105
Mein Auto: 328Ci
Re: 31st330i:

Quote:
Originally posted by Magna
Thanks for your feedback, by the way, we have the same color car, except mine is a 323i.
ummm....you have a 323i, the software DOES increase power. It does not re-calibrate the throttle settings because 323s do not have electronic throttles...
  #6  
Old 06-30-2002, 05:13 PM
Magna's Avatar
Magna Magna is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Boston
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 498
Mein Auto: 2004 325xi
31st330i:

i don't completely understand what they are saying either. some say, that pressing the trottle pedal is more responsive (reach higher rpm with same pressure on the pedals) with Dinan. other say the responsive comes from letting go of the trottle (rpms don't hang, they fall faster) with the Dinan. if that's true than i would say that rev-match downshifts would be easier to accomplish. right now, i would want trottle to more responsive when i press the pedal and when i let go (no hanging).


nate:

do you have the dinan software in your car? how's is it in your opinion. i believe i have a mechanical pedal linkage to an electronic trottle, while the new 330i's have electronic pedal linkage to an electronic trottle.
  #7  
Old 06-30-2002, 07:19 PM
31st330i 31st330i is offline
Now with Nano
Location: East Bay
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,310
Mein Auto: 2001 330i
Re: Re: 31st330i:

Quote:
Originally posted by nate328Ci
ummm....you have a 323i, the software DOES increase power. It does not re-calibrate the throttle settings because 323s do not have electronic throttles...
yes, Nate is correct, sorry for not catching the fact that you have a 323. by all acounts that I've read, the Dinan software does make HP on the 323/328 models.

as I recall, the reason for this is that the number of fuel maps were doubled on the 325/330 models so the OEM sofware has more information available for a wider variety of conditions. with respect to the 325/330 software, Dinan is the ounly vendor out of the 4 total that I've heard of that does not play with cam timing via the VANOS. this accounts for other vendors making higher HP claims even on the 323/328 software and *any* HP with the 325/330 software.
__________________
  #8  
Old 06-30-2002, 08:01 PM
The HACK's Avatar
The HACK The HACK is offline
Rest in peace, Coach
Location: People's Republic of United States
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 9,106
Mein Auto: '06 MZ4C, '09 WRX Wagon
Re: Re: 31st330i:

Quote:
Originally posted by nate328Ci


ummm....you have a 323i, the software DOES increase power. It does not re-calibrate the throttle settings because 323s do not have electronic throttles...
Technically, the 323 and the 328 DOES have electronic throttls...Except it's hooked up to the gas pedal by a mechanical linkage.

The 325 and the 330 takes this one step further and has a 100% electrical system, where the pedal input into the electronic throttle is ALSO electronic.
__________________
Quote:
"Bench racing" about track times driven by professionals are like a bunch of nerds arguing which Princess Leia is hotter, the slave Leia or the no-bra jail-bait Leia. No matter how compelling your argument is, the plain and simple fact is, none of you will EVER get to hit that.
  #9  
Old 06-30-2002, 08:17 PM
nate's Avatar
nate nate is offline
I like cookies.
Location: Houston
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 18,105
Mein Auto: 328Ci
Re: Re: Re: 31st330i:

Quote:
Originally posted by The HACK


Technically, the 323 and the 328 DOES have electronic throttls...Except it's hooked up to the gas pedal by a mechanical linkage.

The 325 and the 330 takes this one step further and has a 100% electrical system, where the pedal input into the electronic throttle is ALSO electronic.
I was waiting for someone to say this, thank you. I think you know what I meant...
  #10  
Old 06-30-2002, 08:18 PM
nate's Avatar
nate nate is offline
I like cookies.
Location: Houston
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 18,105
Mein Auto: 328Ci
Quote:
Originally posted by Magna

nate:

do you have the dinan software in your car? how's is it in your opinion. i believe i have a mechanical pedal linkage to an electronic trottle, while the new 330i's have electronic pedal linkage to an electronic trottle.
I like it. Nice power gain. Better mid range torque. Might want to consider the Conforti as well...
  #11  
Old 06-30-2002, 10:43 PM
DKJBama330ci DKJBama330ci is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Florence, AL
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 97
Send a message via AIM to DKJBama330ci
Mein Auto: '06 Electric Red 330i
Quote:
Originally posted by Magna
31st330i:

other say the responsive comes from letting go of the trottle (rpms don't hang, they fall faster) with the Dinan. if that's true than i would say that rev-match downshifts would be easier to accomplish. right now, i would want trottle to more responsive when i press the pedal and when i let go (no hanging).

AFAIK The only thing that is going to materially make revs drop faster would be a lighter weight flywheeel. I'm no expert though.

DKJ
  #12  
Old 07-01-2002, 07:58 AM
cenotaph cenotaph is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Worcester, MA, USA
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 671
Mein Auto: Topaz/Black '01 330Ci
Quote:
Originally posted by DKJBama330ci


AFAIK The only thing that is going to materially make revs drop faster would be a lighter weight flywheeel. I'm no expert though.

DKJ
That is one way, but it won't help much if BMW has the DME keeping the throttle open for a fraction of a second after you take your foot off, and from what I've seen with my car this appears to be the case in some situations. I vaguely recall a TSB that was put out for the early 325s/330s to fix this, does anyone else remember that?

I would have liked to have gone to the Dinan tech session, but the 4th autocross event was the same day. I chose to wear down my Pilot Sports instead of just sitting around.
__________________
I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them.
-- Isaac Asimov

Pauca sed matura. [Few but excellent.]
-- Gauss
  #13  
Old 07-01-2002, 05:52 PM
Magna's Avatar
Magna Magna is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Boston
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 498
Mein Auto: 2004 325xi
thanks for all the feedback. hmmm, not sure what to do now. i suppose i could take a chance and buy it and see if i like it.

by the way, the dinan rep. said that the DME can take only so many flashes (another word for download?), thus buying the Shark could be a problem.
  #14  
Old 07-01-2002, 08:07 PM
31st330i 31st330i is offline
Now with Nano
Location: East Bay
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,310
Mein Auto: 2001 330i
Quote:
Originally posted by Magna
thanks for all the feedback. hmmm, not sure what to do now. i suppose i could take a chance and buy it and see if i like it.
no can do. fist of all, you don't get a physical product with the Dinan software. they flash your car with their computer and their flashing algorythm. Hack can fill you in on the transferability of ownership bit (even between *HIS OWN* two cars).

once you've flash a car with a shark injector, it becomes personalized to that car and is useless to anyone else (except perhaps a very knowledgable hacker).

Quote:
Originally posted by Magna
by the way, the dinan rep. said that the DME can take only so many flashes (another word for download?), thus buying the Shark could be a problem.
sounds like the Dinan sales drone is spreading some FUD (fear uncertainty and doubt) designed to do nothing more than prevent you from purchasing a competing brand. Steve Dinan himself is a straight shooter so unless I heard something like that from him or perhaps one of his software engineers, count it as pure, unfiltered, 100% genuine, BS.

besides, why would you switch back and forth between software once installed unless you had a problem? from what I've been told by a VERY reliable source, there may be like five people in the world who can tell that your software has been modified.
__________________
  #15  
Old 07-02-2002, 07:46 AM
cenotaph cenotaph is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Worcester, MA, USA
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 671
Mein Auto: Topaz/Black '01 330Ci
Quote:
Originally posted by Magna


by the way, the dinan rep. said that the DME can take only so many flashes (another word for download?), thus buying the Shark could be a problem.
This is likely correct, but exagerated. If the DME stores its software in a Flash ROM or an EEPROM (Electrically Erasable Programable Read Only Memory), which is very likely, there is a finite number of times that it can be programmed. However, this number is usually somewhere in the thousands.
__________________
I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them.
-- Isaac Asimov

Pauca sed matura. [Few but excellent.]
-- Gauss
  #16  
Old 07-02-2002, 08:21 AM
31st330i 31st330i is offline
Now with Nano
Location: East Bay
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,310
Mein Auto: 2001 330i
Quote:
Originally posted by cenotaph
which is very likely, there is a finite number of times that it can be programmed. However, this number is usually somewhere in the thousands.
but it still means that the sales drone is spreading FUD designed to do nothing more than prevent one from purchasing a competing brand.

I've spoken to the Dinan sales drones myself and couldn't believe the info that they spewed. on the other hand, I have in the past spoken to a sales person or two over there that has been very knowledgable as well as ethical.
__________________
  #17  
Old 07-02-2002, 08:45 AM
Munich Munich is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: The Far South
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 8
Mein Auto: E46
I have reflashed my car at least 2 times with different software and I don't think it is a problem, however there are traces of it when you connect it to a dealer DIS, as except them can clear the error codes that happens when you reflash your ECU.
  #18  
Old 07-02-2002, 01:29 PM
31st330i 31st330i is offline
Now with Nano
Location: East Bay
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,310
Mein Auto: 2001 330i
Quote:
Originally posted by Munich
I have reflashed my car at least 2 times with different software and I don't think it is a problem, however there are traces of it when you connect it to a dealer DIS, as except them can clear the error codes that happens when you reflash your ECU.
how are these traces visible (how do you know that any Dinan or Conforti software turds still exist)?

can you clarify the last part of the sentence?
__________________
  #19  
Old 07-02-2002, 01:35 PM
blackdawg blackdawg is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: randolph
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 595
Mein Auto: 325
actually, i have also been told this.

for some reason, the ECU in my 2000 m coupe, which was tweaked all of the time....i was warned about the finite number of times the ECU could be flashed with new software.

they must get this idea from somewhere.......
  #20  
Old 07-02-2002, 01:47 PM
The HACK's Avatar
The HACK The HACK is offline
Rest in peace, Coach
Location: People's Republic of United States
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 9,106
Mein Auto: '06 MZ4C, '09 WRX Wagon
Quote:
Originally posted by 31st330i


no can do. fist of all, you don't get a physical product with the Dinan software. they flash your car with their computer and their flashing algorythm. Hack can fill you in on the transferability of ownership bit (even between *HIS OWN* two cars).
Indeed. Dinan does offer something like a 30 day money back guaranteed, if you don't like the software download they'll give you your money back.

However, there is NO WAY they'll transfer the software from one car to another, even between two IDENTICAL cars. My wife and I both drive 323Ci, production date seperated by two month and she's got an automatic transmission. It's the same software download and they wouldn't even let me try to transfer the software from my car to her car.

Coming from a person who's tried both the Shark Injector and the Dinan software on the same identical car (my 323Ci), I'd say wait for the Shark if you can. It is a dramatic difference and the ease of operation for the Shark won me over.
__________________
Quote:
"Bench racing" about track times driven by professionals are like a bunch of nerds arguing which Princess Leia is hotter, the slave Leia or the no-bra jail-bait Leia. No matter how compelling your argument is, the plain and simple fact is, none of you will EVER get to hit that.
  #21  
Old 07-02-2002, 01:56 PM
ed325i's Avatar
ed325i ed325i is offline
Grumpy and Cynical
Location: Ontario; too hot in summer, too cold in winter
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,603
Send a message via MSN to ed325i Send a message via Yahoo to ed325i
Mein Auto: 328Xi
Original Intel FLASH had a limit of 100,000 writes per lifetime. I think they have improved it since then.

Ed
__________________
Bah. Humbug.
  #22  
Old 07-02-2002, 01:59 PM
blackdawg blackdawg is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: randolph
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 595
Mein Auto: 325
i'd wait for the convenience of the shark injector, too.

i truly would.
  #23  
Old 07-02-2002, 02:09 PM
31st330i 31st330i is offline
Now with Nano
Location: East Bay
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,310
Mein Auto: 2001 330i
I too am waiting for the shark, especially after my email conversation with the land shark himself.
__________________
  #24  
Old 07-02-2002, 02:15 PM
31st330i 31st330i is offline
Now with Nano
Location: East Bay
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,310
Mein Auto: 2001 330i
so magna...

yes, the Dinan software is a quality product and will make more HP for your 323 plus do a number of other things. the Shark Injector (Conforti) is also a quality product and it does everything that the Dinan software does *plus* it modifies your cam timing via VANOS giving you even more HP.

as part of their agreement with BMWNA, Dinan must report all cars that they upgrade the software on to BMWNA and your car will be flagged in their computer as modified. this is according to the software engineer who developed the 330 software on my car.

as I've said before, if you use the shark injector on your car, it's your own dirty little secret.
__________________

Last edited by 31st330i; 07-02-2002 at 02:20 PM.
  #25  
Old 07-02-2002, 02:19 PM
Mystikal Mystikal is offline
Kickin' it old school
Location: Toronto
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,077
Mein Auto: E30 325is
So HACK, you'd say without a doubt that the Shark provided a more noticeable increase in performance? I had Dinan on my mind, but it's true, the conveneince of being able to reset the software in my garage is tempting. If the performance is that much greater I guess it's a no-brainer.
 

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Nav Software Update (3-1/60) Particulars SONET General BMW 1 02-17-2006 11:34 AM
BMW Update for S54 Engines BMWNA M Series 2 08-13-2003 05:55 PM
Dinan software installed in '01 M (long) bmargolis E36/7 Z3 (1996-2002) 23 01-20-2003 09:36 AM
Had the Dinan engine software installed. Rmart 3 Series / 4 Series 4 09-01-2002 08:47 PM
Edmunds Convertible review The BoatMan 3 Series / 4 Series 35 06-19-2002 09:13 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms