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  #1  
Old 07-03-2002, 12:12 PM
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The HACK The HACK is offline
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I wonder if the 3.0 will EVER grow to more than 230 HP

All these speculations about BMW upping the power output on the 3.0 liter engine because of competition...Some say 260 HP on the 330 in 2003, I've seen figures ranging from 230 to 250.

BULL.

The 3.0 liter engine, at current iteration (M54), is about as finely tuned as an engine of this size can POSSIBLY get at 6,500 rpm redline (without introduction of new technology). The ONLY way BMW can increase the power output of the 3.0 liter engine is by either force induction (hence the bi-turbo on the 5 series) or by moving the redline up another few thousand RPMs, ala M3 engine. Frankly, I don't think the Aluminium block in the 3.0 can sustain such high RPMs, otherwise BMW wouldn't have use a cast IRON block for the M3 engine.

And judging from the fact that the new Z4s are coming with the identical 3.0 and 2.5 liter engine, we can safely assume the 2003 3 series will NOT see any powergains, and if the numbers are different we can be assured that it's BMW Marketing working their funny accounting. Most likely we WILL see some new engines by the end of 2003 on the 3 series once the 5 series is introduced...Perhaps Valvetronic I-6es with power in the 250hp range from the 3.0, but it will NOT happen in the 2003 model year.

So take it for what it's worth, there will be NO changes for 2003 for the sedan, and very minor changes on the coupe if any.
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  #2  
Old 07-03-2002, 12:19 PM
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Although I don't think there will be any power increase for 2003, for the reasons that you state above, it is possible to have a higher hp 3L engine than the current one. The 240hp '95 E36 M3 is proof
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  #3  
Old 07-03-2002, 12:28 PM
ALEX325i ALEX325i is offline
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Re: I wonder if the 3.0 will EVER grow to more than 230 HP

Quote:
Originally posted by The HACK
...BULL....

...So take it for what it's worth, there will be NO changes for 2003 for the sedan, and very minor changes on the coupe if any.
Although what you said above is more than likely, I HAVE to ask bro... Are you with BMW AG or something?
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  #4  
Old 07-03-2002, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by nate328Ci
Although I don't think there will be any power increase for 2003, for the reasons that you state above, it is possible to have a higher hp 3L engine than the current one. The 240hp '95 E36 M3 is proof

Yep. If the single VANOS 3.0l euro E36 M3 engine can generate 286hp. Double VANOS in the current 3.0l should come close to that if BMW sees the need. Turbo just sounds so Volvo, Saab and Audi.
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  #5  
Old 07-03-2002, 02:32 PM
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Valvetronic. Which will also make the e-throttle debacle right, we hope.

Edit: And I see I need to work on my reading comprehension. Perhaps if they improved their tolerances, though. I remember someone's 330 dyno'd at 250+ bone stock...
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Last edited by Nick325xiT 5spd; 07-03-2002 at 03:18 PM.
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  #6  
Old 07-03-2002, 05:15 PM
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Where was this???
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  #7  
Old 07-03-2002, 06:45 PM
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Re: I wonder if the 3.0 will EVER grow to more than 230 HP

Quote:
Originally posted by The HACK
So take it for what it's worth, there will be NO changes for 2003 for the sedan, and very minor changes on the coupe if any.
i bet they shave $1500 off the list price though... bookmark this post.
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  #8  
Old 07-03-2002, 07:53 PM
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THE HACK,

Your analysis is most impressive and "dollars to donuts" I predict that you are correct. A limiting factor of the valvetronic system is the time lag required for the valves to be electronically adjusted for each stroke. Consequently, the valvetronic system appears to be incompatible with the higher revving engines such as those used in the "M" series.
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  #9  
Old 07-03-2002, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nick325xiT 5spd
Valvetronic. Which will also make the e-throttle debacle right, we hope.
What debacle?

All that I hear is unwarranted *****ing here
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  #10  
Old 07-03-2002, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nick325xiT 5spd
Edit: And I see I need to work on my reading comprehension. Perhaps if they improved their tolerances, though. I remember someone's 330 dyno'd at 250+ bone stock...
Yeah. Running 103 octane JET FUEL, in 32 degrees farenheit with 0 humidity, and the engine fell apart right after the dyno run...And a giant fan blowing compressed air into the intake.
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  #11  
Old 07-03-2002, 09:42 PM
ALEX325i ALEX325i is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by nate328Ci


What debacle?

All that I hear is unwarranted *****ing here
I HAVE to agree... I can't ****ing tell the difference between my current 325i (or former M3 in non-Sport mode) and my former 00 323Ci... Heck, it must be even better than the mechanical throttle with the Dinan SW...
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  #12  
Old 07-03-2002, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by nate328Ci


What debacle?

All that I hear is unwarranted *****ing here
My sister, who is as close to a disinterested party as you can get started ranting about the delay within 1 block the first time she drove my car. The sticky pedal is also rather irritating.

The problem with the e-throttle, IMHO, is mostly with BMW's software. The lag also increases depending on how the car is driven. It freaking irritating. Over time, throttle response sucks more and more and more, until I reset the computer and I get it back. With an average speed of 15-19MPH, I just don't have the opportunity to drive the piss out of the car constantly.
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  #13  
Old 07-03-2002, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by The HACK


Yeah. Running 103 octane JET FUEL, in 32 degrees farenheit with 0 humidity, and the engine fell apart right after the dyno run...And a giant fan blowing compressed air into the intake.
Wouldn't know. I just recall a post on bimmer.org, along with a lot of comments on how BMW's tolerances allowed for up to +10% over spec.
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  #14  
Old 07-03-2002, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ALEX325i


I HAVE to agree... I can't ****ing tell the difference between my current 325i (or former M3 in non-Sport mode) and my former 00 323Ci... Heck, it must be even better than the mechanical throttle with the Dinan SW...
I've never driven an older E46. However, the throttle in my old E36 was MUCH more immediate. With software, I'm sure the e-throttle is quite decent. If BMW would simply give us a sport mode outside of the M3, I suspect that a lot of the *****ing would die down.
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  #15  
Old 07-03-2002, 09:55 PM
ALEX325i ALEX325i is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by The HACK


Yeah. Running 103 octane JET FUEL
Nice... Where can I get some of that?
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  #16  
Old 07-03-2002, 09:56 PM
ALEX325i ALEX325i is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nick325xiT 5spd


I've never driven an older E46. However, the throttle in my old E36 was MUCH more immediate. With software, I'm sure the e-throttle is quite decent. If BMW would simply give us a sport mode outside of the M3, I suspect that a lot of the *****ing would die down.
Oh, I could rephrase that...

I HAVE to agree... I can't ****ing tell the difference between my current 325i (or former M3 in non-Sport mode) and my former 95 325is... Heck, it must be even better than the mechanical throttle with the Dinan SW...
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  #17  
Old 07-03-2002, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ALEX325i


Oh, I could rephrase that...

I HAVE to agree... I can't ****ing tell the difference between my current 325i (or former M3 in non-Sport mode) and my former 95 325is... Heck, it must be even better than the mechanical throttle with the Dinan SW...
And I ****ing well can!
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  #18  
Old 07-03-2002, 10:03 PM
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I'm with Alex. Lag? Sticky pedal? huh? Maybe this is a sign of inconsistent manufacturing by BMW, and not some design problem.
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Old 07-03-2002, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ALEX325i


Oh, I could rephrase that...

I HAVE to agree... I can't ****ing tell the difference between my current 325i (or former M3 in non-Sport mode) and my former 95 325is... Heck, it must be even better than the mechanical throttle with the Dinan SW...
I can tell a difference, but the only thing that I find significant is that the throttle is lighter than mine (M52TU E46s have heavy throttles). That really is it.

It makes it easier to blip the throttle
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  #20  
Old 07-03-2002, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by nate328Ci


I can tell a difference, but the only thing that I find significant is that the throttle is lighter than mine (M52TU E46s have heavy throttles). That really is it.

It makes it easier to blip the throttle
That's exactly what theHACK said after driving my car.
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  #21  
Old 07-03-2002, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kaz


That's exactly what theHACK said after driving my car.
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  #22  
Old 07-03-2002, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kaz
I'm with Alex. Lag? Sticky pedal? huh? Maybe this is a sign of inconsistent manufacturing by BMW, and not some design problem.
Sticky pedal is definitely a manufacturing problem.

The lag is a software issue. It gets worse with a great deal of stoplight/city driving. After 500 or so highway miles on sunday/monday, my car feels fantastic. But it's ALREADY starting to slow down. I've only put a very few miles on it in the city, too.
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  #23  
Old 07-03-2002, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kaz


That's exactly what theHACK said after driving my car.
The differences did not really become apparent to me until after a couple of months with my car. *shrug*
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  #24  
Old 07-04-2002, 01:56 AM
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Quote:
Yep. If the single VANOS 3.0l euro E36 M3 engine can generate 286hp. Double VANOS in the current 3.0l should come close to that if BMW sees the need.
Keep in mind that the S50B30 also revs a bit higher than the M54B30 (about 1000rpm more).
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  #25  
Old 07-04-2002, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by The HACK


Yeah. Running 103 octane JET FUEL, in 32 degrees farenheit with 0 humidity, and the engine fell apart right after the dyno run...And a giant fan blowing compressed air into the intake.
Uuh, jet fuel is very close to DIESEL fuel or kerosene, no octane rating at all.

You might be thinking of AVGAS, which is fuel for aviation PISTON engines.

Avgas commonly comes in two versions, 80 octane and 100LL. Both are LEADED fuels, so not suitable in modern cars. Also the octane ratings are not determined by the same methods (different standards) so are not directly compareable to auto fuel ratings.

In the old days avgas was dual rated (80/87, 100/130, etc) the two ratings were like our MON and RON for auto fuel. But in avgas it mainly had to do with supercharged versus non-supercharged, and lean versus rich mixtures.

Your best bet is to check the Union 76 and Sunoco web pages for the nearest dealer for auto racing fuels. Around here, Sunoco sells 100 AKI racing fuel from pumps at certain stations. Union 76 does the same in different parts of the country.

Both also sell racing fuels up to 116 or so AKI, but these are only available in drums from distributors.
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