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E36 /7 Z3 (1996-2002)
E36/7 Z3 roadster and coupe talk with our gurus here.

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  #1  
Old 07-05-2002, 06:23 PM
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bmargolis bmargolis is offline
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Dinan software installed in '01 M (long)

Dinan software upgrade for 2001 M Roadster

Well, I did it! I had the brand new Dinan software upgrade installed in my M Roadster. I have had the car for just over a year now and have put over 9,000 fun filled, completely satisfying miles on her. She still moves me every time I start her. I could only be happier if I could get two golf bags in the trunk, but thatís a small inconvienence Iím willing to live with.

I infrequently push her really hard, but when I doÖshe answers the call with unrelenting acceleration and never questions my sanity. (Perhaps she should) So why would I want to add another 5+% HP that in all likelihood Iíll never truly be able to appreciate? Well, Iím not completely sure myself, but I will attempt to answer here.

First, the claims: There is no literature for this upgrade, itís brand-new. There is no data on the web site, there are no confirmed dyno results, and there is only Dinanís unusually solid reputation within the BMW community. Hereís what the dealer told me. They were with the Dinan people last week when the software was released and they were told that there would be about a 15-17 HP increase. They were told that the power and torque curve would be better even down low. That there would be a noticeable increase in not only top end power, but useable power, in the range where most of us drive in every day, that there would be smoother throttle response and a more linear power curve. They were told that the top end in a MZ3 would now be 175. They were told that the new rev limiter would operate above 8,000 RPMís. They were also told that as of April 1, 2001, most of the Dinan software upgrades would cost the consumer $499.00. A big fat increase of $100.00, or 25%. These cars are a bit de-tuned at the factory to account for fuel grades and average driving conditions and etc. This software should give me the highest performance one can get from this motor in stock form.

The experience: I had an appointment at a dealer about an hour from my home. My golf game ran late and there was no way I was going to make it there. I called the dealer in Hartford (New Country Motors) that has managed to completely screw up everything that I have ever had them attempt. I was very reluctant, as the rep there told me that he ďthoughtĒ the upgrade would work, but he had never done a 2001 or 2002 before. He did assure me that he could reload the BMW factory program if the Dinan upgrade did not work. I got there at 2:00pm and was happy to see that it was very quiet. He (the service advisor) took me right in and opened the hood. He unscrewed the computer port and produced a little ľ size laptop computer that said Dinan on it. Looks like an older HP palmtop of something like that. Plugged it in and turned it on. The first screen asks mileage and VIN number. Next screen says upgrade price is $499.00. Whoa, you told me $399.00 over the phone, the same thing the other dealer quoted me. He goes back in and gets the Dinan book and shows me the page with the price increase. I squawk a bit and he says that he can try to enter $399.00 in the computer and see what happens. Iím OK with that, as Iím now pretty much foaming at the mouth to get this thing done. After that, there is a little fiddling around with the carís power and a couple of fuses. Unplugging ABS sensorís etc. Ten minutes of that, and the upgrade is going along well. The whole thing was complete in a half hour. He hands me a receipt for $399.00 and tells me that heís not going to change me anything for labor as he does the upgradeís himself and not a mechanic. I love this guy!

Now on to the road test. I got right onto the highway and found a lot of traffic. Crap, no place here to open her up. A few shifts and honestly itís pretty hard to tell any difference. I navigate through 10-15 miles of -****ty- traffic and finally find some open roads near my home in Simsbury. DCS-off, check. Rev to 3500, check. Drop clutch, chhhhhhhhhhhhhheck. Damn I got to 8 grand fast, shift, depress throttle to floor, check. You get the idea. I gave her a few runs up through first, second and third. I let her hit the rev limiter once to see exactly where it happened. 8,100 Ė 8,200 I would say. Those of you that have Mís can appreciate the furor thatís going on above 7,000 RPMís. The pre Euro motor M owners Iím sure also have a very good perspective. For those of you that have never driven an M Roadster or Coupe, let me tell you that things happen QUICKLY under full acceleration. In just over 4 seconds, your whole world changes to a fast moving, loud, adrenaline rush of movement. You canít possibly watch the tach and the speedometer, so you better watch the tach! So, whatís the difference? Well, again thatís hard to quantify. The butt dyno says that throttle response is better and smoother. Almost feels a tad more like the M3 I drove a few weeks ago. I read some comments here and on another MB that there was some throttle bogging. No, I did not find that at all. Not in and gear at any speed. I found the acceleration at even moderate speed was excellent.

Iím not a professional driver, and as I said earlier I will never find this carís limits, but I do like the idea of having the fastest, smoothest, most powerful M Roadster that I can have without going crazy with mods. The Dinan upgrade does that for me, for far less than one monthís lease payment. So, is it worth the $399.00? Well, not too many people that spend 400 bucks on something will tell you that is was a waste of money. The differences are very subtle. I would doubt many here could actually tell the difference between a Dinan M and a stock M. Still Iím happy I did it, and will undoubtedly discover more about the performance over the coming months and miles. I look forward to Dinan posting actual results on the web site soon.

And finally, Vance-man and Dadofour and MFrankÖlook out boys, thereís an Imola streak closing fast in the rear view.

Mods to date: V1 detector, Alpine CD head unit, Leather Z Mach II, BMW Aluminum Pedal set, Whalen Shift Machine, JDís Clear Windscreen, Dinan Stage I software.
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2009 E92 M3 / Alpine White / Black Leather / Carbon Leather / M-DCT / 19's / Technology / Premium / Cold Weather / iPod / Smartphone / PDC / Sirius XM
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  #2  
Old 07-05-2002, 09:26 PM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Your read on New Country Motors is right on. They are too busy to know what's going on.
Would like to do some side to side comparison cruising accels with your car, versus Al's '01 M roadster with the software you just got and my '01 M coupe without. Al and I both have the 3.46 differential.
We regularly go down to Dad's (whole bellys, lobster roll) in Niantic (from Marlborough) via route 11 (nice test road).
Let me know.
860-295-9986 After Noon
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  #3  
Old 07-06-2002, 04:42 AM
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bmargolis bmargolis is offline
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Would love to Ron

Jeez, posted at 2:30am! No wonder you want a call after noon. How does tomorrow look (Sunday 7/7/02) ? Or I may be able to find some time during the week. There is also a possibility of late today and tonight.

I'll give you a call this afternoon.

Bob
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  #4  
Old 07-06-2002, 12:24 PM
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ARC///M ARC///M is offline
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Dinan road party

Bob I am Alan, Ron`s talking about.Call him and also feel free to call my cell 860-480-2721or 860-693-6393 anytime just leave a message,I am on for Sunday lets rip rubber and have lunch lets get to the bottom of the ****.I live In Canton you can follow me if you like!P/S Bob I feel pretty much the same about the down load,And I stay clear of New Country Auto.They did my last down load on my 00.Never go back.Plus I was With Ron on his last car purchase,He may have been treated better if he was a inmate nextstore!
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  #5  
Old 07-08-2002, 06:20 PM
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bmargolis bmargolis is offline
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follow up post, after testing round 1

I met Al Corey this morning and we spent about 20 minutes going over each other's cars. Al has the nicest M Roadster I have ever seen. You could eat off of the motor it's so clean. My car (which is usually pretty clean looked filthy next to Al's. Al's car is pretty loaded with mods. and chrome, lots of chrome. Al even has completely chrome mirrors. With the steel gray color, the chrome looks great. Here a shot of Al's car. Note the Supersprint exhaust.


I followed Al to Ron's house, about a 45 minute drive from where we met. We had Motorola's so we talked most of the ride. Every time we went under an overpass, Al blipped the throttle and the Supersprint roared. I smiled constantly.

We met Ron and spent an hour or so there talking and seeing all of Ron's toys in his garage.




The point of all this was to find out how my Dinan software compared to Al's Dinan software (and his 346 rear diff) v. Ron's M Coupe without Dinan software but with a 346 rear diff.

This was brought about because after they had both installed 346 diff's, their car's naturally performed the same, but after Al had the Dinan software upgrade, his car was actually SLOWER than Ron's. They also felt that Al's car bogged a bit under lowish revs and full acceleration. As we tested today, Ron's car is indeed a bit faster from 60mph in both 3rd and 4th gear. Both of their cars are faster then mine was because of the 346 diff.


We drove for about 45 minutes and stopped at a nice little "clam shack" on the CT shore for lunch. A bit more dialogue and food and we were back off to Ron's house. We stopped and swapped cars a couple of times on the way. They both felt that my stock M Roadster was smoother and had better throttle response than either of their cars. Al's bogging problem could have something to do with his airbox mod. He'll get it back to stock and see if it clears the problem.

My own impressions are that I LOVE the Supersprint. It really sounds great and looks great too. The 346 rear diff. makes a nice difference in acceleration. It should increase performance by 10% and it sure feels like it does. That would put a stock M Roadster in the 4 second class for 0-60. Pretty impressive. I had never drive a Coupe before, so that was really a treat. It's not that the Coupe is stiffer per say, but is not as loose, or a bit tighter than my Roadster. I was surprised by the great visibility in the coupe.

Ron has soooooo many interior mods, lights and switches I practically crapped my pants fearing I was going to find a cutoff switch somewhere!



Back at Ron's house again, it was time for a cigar, a beer and some more talk.

It was a great day, I met some great people and friends and soaked up some excellent infomation. I can't really explain just how much these two guys know about these cars. It's mind boggling to me that anyone (that does not do this for a living) could actually do the things that they do themselves.


Bob ///Margolis
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  #6  
Old 07-08-2002, 06:20 PM
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bmargolis bmargolis is offline
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nearly final post, part III

Sorry to keep adding posts about this, but as information becomes available, I assume that others want it. There should be one more post, but not until Dinan gets back to us. So here goes...

Yesterday, you may recall that Al Corey, Ron Stygar and I did some testing to find out why Al's M with the Dinan software was not as fast as Ron's M without the software. Al had removed his airbox several days ago, for g-d only knowy why???

Yesterday in tests, Ron's car was clearly a bit faster than Al's and they were both faster then mine, because of the 3.46 rear differential installed in both of their cars. Al and I went out tonight for some more tests, but this time Al had re-installed the air box and collector "horn" for lack of the knowledge of a proper name.

Al kicked my A$$...big time. His car was WAY WAY WAY faster than mine. In fact, the only way I could stay with him was with me in third and he in fourth! We were dead even there. Now I did have my son Garrett with me, so that's an additional 160 lbs. and I certainly weigh at least 20 lbs. more than Al. Even with the extra weight, that is not going to make that much of a difference. The airbox makes all of the difference in the world. Simply forcing the same amount of air through a smaller opening does the trick. That may also account for any previous "bogging" feeling that Al may have had. When he felt the bogging last week, it was 100 degrees out and his air box was removed. Those two things could certainly account for "bogging".

I have the dyno results from Dinan, there is clearly an HP gain from 3500 rpm's up to 7500 where they shut down the test. I'm going to scan it tomorrow and will gladly e-mail it to anyone that wants it.

Now if I can justify that Supersprint and the 3.46 diff... no, no, no. I have to stop thinking that way.
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  #7  
Old 07-08-2002, 09:25 PM
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scottn2retro scottn2retro is offline
into things retro
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don't be sorry for adding posts

Keep the updates coming! Good reading.
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  #8  
Old 07-09-2002, 11:54 PM
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scottn2retro scottn2retro is offline
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Any DSC problems . . .

I thought I read on a post somewhere about the DSC engaging a lot with the 3:46 installed. Have you guys noticed anything like that?
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  #9  
Old 07-10-2002, 05:53 AM
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ARC///M ARC///M is offline
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If you Read Ron`s post on the 346 install and the tests you will find that with a true Torsen You seem to have better displacment of power to the rear wheels.He can explain I do not have the time.My DSE Never comes on and I hammer it Ask Bob Margolis.He went for a few rides with me **** I am putting new tires on next week I have worst then ever.NO THE DSE DOES not react more.LESS
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  #10  
Old 07-10-2002, 09:56 AM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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http://bimmerfest.com/forums/showthr...&threadid=5287
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  #11  
Old 07-14-2002, 08:40 PM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Checks with Al's horn installed

Al put back the horn in his air box and we did some more checks today. We are basically even now which is an improvement versus no horn. I pull him slightly. Maybe because of the coupes lower Cd.
So either my car is basically faster, or the Dinan stuff isn't doing ****.
Conforti is coming out with an injector for the Z3 S54's soon. Will try that out and see how Al and I compare then.
Although I'm in Conforti's asshole bucket, maybe he will sell/send me one now to continue these checks.
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  #12  
Old 07-15-2002, 09:57 AM
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ARC///M ARC///M is offline
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Well Ron is right,That the cars were dead even in the mid range of the ban(SO WERE IS THE EXTRA DINAN POWER)Must be up top,for a few seconds,Ron can`t go there, Better responce yes,But I was pulling Ron`s car,May be the top down= more drag,than the coup,May be,there was few times that I got the jump and pulled away,But all in all they were equal,In this test, one gear to 7600,there is is little pilot error.Were is the lack of extra h/p well off to the dyno booth tuesday.Remember that both these cars are real fast,In this model car the rear differential was a home run!And very noticeable..Also the weight removed from each car to drop the sprung weight. We also worked to get the cars back to a 50/50 ratio.
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  #13  
Old 07-15-2002, 12:30 PM
Tommy V Tommy V is offline
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Weight Savings

Al

Besides battery and Supersprint, what additional weight savings changes did you make?

Thanks, by the way, for all of your posts and Ron"s as well. You guys are just so helpful. Its really, really appreciated and inspiring as well!!!


Tommy V
02 Steel Grey MCoupe
Ground Control Suspension: 450F/600R Eibach - Koni SA
Ground Control Rear Mounts
Supersprint Dual DTM
UUC Short Shift & Tranny Mount
UUC Big Boy Clutch Stop/Rob Knob III
HMS Harness Bar/Schroth 4pt
Valentine 1 Hardwired
SS CL Stut Bar (on the way)
3.46 Differential (on the way)
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  #14  
Old 07-15-2002, 01:56 PM
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ARC///M ARC///M is offline
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WEIGHT

Tom,some mods we have done,Can not be published,As could bring warranty in to question as well as DOT Requirments,Let`s just say every day we think about weight loss.Thrust and weight=drag!If i see you i will be able share more info.Just remember water=8.33# at ambient.
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  #15  
Old 07-19-2002, 06:55 PM
Gregor Gregor is offline
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Keep the Comments Coming

Just watching all from back here. Talking about a picnic up at Kent Falls Thursday after work, 25th. Al has my e-mail and such. Around 6:30-8:30 is the weather is good.

Gregor
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  #16  
Old 01-17-2003, 11:27 AM
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fpa1974 fpa1974 is offline
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Mein Auto: 02 M Cpe,03 325iT,05 330i
I was just wondering if there are any updates on this Dinan software upgrade. I plan to do it for my 02 M Coupe and I am interested in people that did it and made dyno runs before and after (or at least after). Was the improvement as advertised? Is it worth doing it?

Thanks,
Florian
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  #17  
Old 01-17-2003, 03:43 PM
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ARC///M ARC///M is offline
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Dinan

Read all the data listed above,Remember this issue has many sides,and know one seems to agree on the end results,It will change your car, It will remove the rev limiter Did Dinan set down the red line since we did it,I do not know.Does it make the car faster,not much,Is it half Butt dyno results yes,Does it affect all cars a little different yes.My dyno results were exactly what was predicted by Dinan(Owe but now the skeptics say the dyno that cost a cool quarter mill,Must have been out of cailibration.Or the weather dictates net h/p.If these guys were in the Hvac trade I would ***** slap them!Every buddy is the FFFFuccin Expert,Note most guys that own this type of car do not turn wrenches for a living,So the listen to webb gossip from webb mungers.And note on some dyno machines with the(dse)off the brain gets a little strange and the engine does not shut down at (8200)thats a fact You better pull your foot out off it or you could be installing the first v-8 in your car and also no brakes on the roller, But you no this,remember your all experts.
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  #18  
Old 01-17-2003, 04:32 PM
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fpa1974 fpa1974 is offline
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I talked to them on the phone and yes they have a much lower redline as opposed to the first releases of the software. They told me they increase it just by 150 rpm now. So this should bring it in the 7800 rpm zone. They also told me 331HP and as much torque as an M3 which means 262 ft-lbs. Better throttle response and no top speed limiter.
Do the power figures seem consistent to any tests/dynp runs people have done after they installed the software? What about that throttle response? How close is it to an M3 in S6?

Thanks,
Florian
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  #19  
Old 01-19-2003, 02:48 PM
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ARC///M ARC///M is offline
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I thought the throtle responce was much better,But I do not belive they have unleashed the power ect of the M serias sedan.
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  #20  
Old 01-19-2003, 04:52 PM
gbrown gbrown is offline
M coupe
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Oh no..time to take it back. I had it the first week of release and she goes 'over' 8k easy enough.

Any idea of how many revisions they have done?
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  #21  
Old 01-20-2003, 07:00 AM
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fpa1974 fpa1974 is offline
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I have no idea on how many revisions they had. I just asked about the current one. So I see that there is not too much consensus about the power increases. What makes you believe that it does not deliver what they promise?

On a side note it is a little bit strange experience what happened when I asked for some dyno charts (before/after) from Dinan. They told me they have none available and I would have to wait to dyno a coupe at their place. Then I asked how can they advertise a power increase without checking it on the dyno. The answer is that they can estimate it from the way the computer is programmed. Very strange! Is that 'estimation' possible at all?

Florian
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  #22  
Old 01-20-2003, 08:55 AM
gbrown gbrown is offline
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Dinan is full of crap IMO in regards to HP increases. They are assuming that if now produces M3 like power after some tweaking. However from my understanding the cam timing is the main difference (and the rev limiter) vs. the M3 S54 settings so they would have to change both to get that power.

And this is assuming the exhaust systems rob the same amount of power from the engine which is not likely.

So, if their ECU mod and rev limit now is 7,800 it cannot make as much power as the M3.

Was my car faster? Yes. I did many before and after runs with M3's and a few other cars. However, I attribute that to being able to wind the car to 8k. I had my car dynoed and a very experienced ECU tuner (Garret Lim of GIAC) overlooked the run and claimed it made power over 7,650...no doubt about that.

If set at 7,800 which sounds like what Dinan is doing I would expect to be a tad slower when driven to the limits.

Bottom line is Dinan cannot back up their claims without hard evidence. A computer simulation just does not cut it but I suppose its enough to keep them free and clear from false advertising....but do they even advertise the HP numbers outside of a phone call? I dont think they do.
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  #23  
Old 01-20-2003, 09:33 AM
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That is my problem as well. I have not seen any numbers advertised outside of a phone call. It is a very fishy practice if you ask me. You have however a 30 day money back guarantee. So what I am thinking is to do some dyno runs before and after and if it does not produce the advertised gain I can get my money back. But I will still be out about $100 for the dyno runs for something that they should have in the first place. I don't know. This is why I was asking for some dyno charts for a car with Dinan as opposed to without and maybe I could save that $100.

Florian
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  #24  
Old 01-20-2003, 09:36 AM
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They still do not say that the HP is the same. What they quoted my on the phone is about 2HP shy of the the 333HP an M3 makes. They said however that the torque will be the same.

Florian
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