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Bimmerfest 2005: Santa Barbara, CA
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  #26  
Old 04-24-2005, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atyclb
how did he do that?
He camped at the raffle stand for hours...
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  #27  
Old 04-24-2005, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon
I'm sure that they wanted to win something.

Bee really wanted to win the Hamann wheels.

....I was going for tires! I won twice - a Bimmian gift certificate and a set of Meguiar's detailing products. I'm totally stoked.

I actually won MORE times than Beewang statistically (I bought 20 tickets).
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  #28  
Old 04-24-2005, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atyclb
how did he do that?
I assume he waited until near the end and simply asked how many tickets had been sold so far. Anybody was free to do the same.
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  #29  
Old 04-24-2005, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt Martin
I assume he waited until near the end and simply asked how many tickets had been sold so far. Anybody was free to do the same.
guess not
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  #30  
Old 04-24-2005, 07:20 PM
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Maybe the tickets were numbered? No one else had the presence of mind to ask the question. You guys are just too much with your questioning and suspicions. Who would guess that someone would fault a guy for buying too many tickets for a charity raffle. Unreal.
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  #31  
Old 04-24-2005, 07:31 PM
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I think some people aren't actually listening to what's being said.
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  #32  
Old 04-24-2005, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TGray5
Maybe the tickets were numbered? No one else had the presence of mind to ask the question. You guys are just too much with your questioning and suspicions. Who would guess that someone would fault a guy for buying too many tickets for a charity raffle. Unreal.
The tickets were numbered.

Perhaps the complainers should have stayed awake in math class. Bee observed a massive disconnect between value and price, then took advantage of it. Rather than dishing out crap to Bee, folks should be kicking themselves for being too blind to see what he saw.

"Hmm, there is in excess of $10K in prizes, $2K worth of tickets sold so far, and only an hour left to buy raffle tickets. Doesn't that mean, on average, a $5 ticket has an expected value of more than $25? Even if they sell double that number of tickets, it is still a massive buy signal, right?"

You are correct, sir!

As it ends up, they sold another few $K worth of tickets, but the EV was still 2:1 or more.


Bill
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  #33  
Old 04-24-2005, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ·clyde·
Seems a little unethical to allow those closely invovled with bimmerfest or bimmerfest.com (such as moderators) to even bid...
I agree that all employees should not participate nor should the family of employees.

So, the acid test is ... is Bee paid or related to anyone who is?

If so, he should not have participated. If not, then people should STFU.


Bill
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  #34  
Old 04-24-2005, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ·clyde·
I think some people aren't actually listening to what's being said.
Good way to dodge the issue...and until my computer reads posts to me...listening has nothing to do with it..and no there is nothing wrong with my reading comprehension either.
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  #35  
Old 04-24-2005, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TGray5
Good way to dodge the issue...and until my computer reads posts to me...listening has nothing to do with it..and no there is nothing wrong with my reading comprehension either.
Still, no one has answered the underlying question.
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  #36  
Old 04-24-2005, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew
Still, no one has answered the underlying question.
What is the underlying question. I'll get my wife (a CPA) who operates
under the highest ethical standards to answer it for you. She personally
handled raffle ticket sales. Winners were called by name and number.
There were 10's people standing literally within spitting distance watching
every move that was made. I can't believe the tone of this thread.
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  #37  
Old 04-24-2005, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TGray5
Good way to dodge the issue...and until my computer reads posts to me...listening has nothing to do with it..and no there is nothing wrong with my reading comprehension either.
I'm not dodging anything. I've been open and honest about my thoughts and laid things on the table a very clear and simple fashion.

On the other end, some people have been defensive, dismissive and refused to address the concerns other than to say "It wasn't fixed" (or similar).
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  #38  
Old 04-24-2005, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon
I can't believe the tone of this thread.
Neither can I. I was not there, I don't know in what fashion the raffle was held, I am a neutral bystander, and I would simply like to know if there was any way anyone could get an unfair, insider advantage. I haven't seen anything confirming or denying it, just a regurgitation of common-knowledge math and others showing disgust. The only reason I ask is because, as clyde has been stating, to an outsider it does look unfair. So, set it straight and state to an outsider that it isn't and I'll take your word for it.
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  #39  
Old 04-24-2005, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew
Neither can I. I was not there, I don't know in what fashion the raffle was held, I am a neutral bystander, and I would simply like to know if there was any way anyone could get an unfair, insider advantage. I haven't seen anything confirming or denying it, just a regurgitation of common-knowledge math and others showing disgust. The only reason I ask is because, as clyde has been stating, to an outsider it looks unfair. So, set it straight and state to an outsider that it isn't and I'll take your word for it.
The Opportunity Drawing was legit.
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  #40  
Old 04-24-2005, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon
The Opportunity Drawing was legit.
That wasn't so hard now, was it?
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  #41  
Old 04-24-2005, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew
That wasn't so hard now, was it?
:repost:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon
No way. The big winner (an accountant) purchased $500 worth of
tickets. Before pulling the trigger he determined how many total were
sold, and then estimated the probability of winning before he began
shelling out the dough... Just ask my wife...

My son pulled the winning ticket on every draw. As a father, how
would it look to my son if I cheated in front of thousands of people?
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  #42  
Old 04-24-2005, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon
:repost:
I was trying to courteously wrap it up. But since you brought it up, the post which you have quoted is not entirely definitive because the only way you can estimate the probability is if you know the total number of tickets. But now that I understand such information was common knowledge, I don't have anything else to say, other than I believe it wasn't rigged.

Last edited by Mathew; 04-24-2005 at 08:40 PM.
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  #43  
Old 04-24-2005, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew
That wasn't so hard now, was it?
Stop the madness! Read the thread
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  #44  
Old 04-24-2005, 09:39 PM
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I only bought $20 worth of tickets. I wasn't EXPECTING to win ANYTHING and basically wrote it
off as a donation to a worthy cause. It seems that we're getting off track here and concentrating
on winning prizes rather than what the raffle was all about. Hey, Beewang bought a ton of tickets
and he won a ton of prizes. So what? Anyone of us could have done the same. I recall Jon
announcing that they were short of their projected sales of the tickets and even delayed the raffle
20 mins to allow us to purchase more tickets. Well, I guess Beewang was the only one to do it.
Lets just end the controversy here. Hopefully, this won't have an effect on next year's raffle.
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  #45  
Old 04-24-2005, 10:16 PM
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i also only bought $20 worth of tickets and expected to just write it off as a donation. but i got super lucky and got some cool stuff.

misha
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  #46  
Old 04-24-2005, 11:19 PM
PhAzEd330 PhAzEd330 is offline
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I wanted the BBK from stoptech, but got the coils .

I put in $80 with my gf. If I didn't win anything...at least the money went to a good cause.

My friend and his gf put in $200, but not one of them won once. Guess it's just luck.

BTW: For the coils, who would I need to talk to in order to get them. The packet was from Wheel Power for H&R coilovers.

Thanks
Patrick
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Last edited by PhAzEd330; 04-24-2005 at 11:23 PM.
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  #47  
Old 04-25-2005, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhAzEd330
I wanted the BBK from stoptech, but got the coils .

I put in $80 with my gf. If I didn't win anything...at least the money went to a good cause.

My friend and his gf put in $200, but not one of them won once. Guess it's just luck.

BTW: For the coils, who would I need to talk to in order to get them. The packet was from Wheel Power for H&R coilovers.
Congrats on the score Patrick!



Please contact Tim Pak at Wheel Power: tim@wheelpower.com
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  #48  
Old 04-25-2005, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misha_S
i also got super lucky and got something before beewang snagged it all.

i was lucky enough to score a gift pack from evosport.
including:
1.h&r sport spring set
2. dyno session
3. $100 of eurosport product

cool stuff. im not sure what im going to do with the stuff yet. i just bought springs for my ride so thats taken care of. the other stuff im not sure. i will be checking their site to see all the stuff available.

hey if there is any takers on those things let me know. i am willing to sell any of them.

misha

Hey Misha,

I sent you a PM regarding the Springs. I may be interested!
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  #49  
Old 04-25-2005, 12:04 PM
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There are two "underlying questions" that have been raised here: Fraud, and Ethics.

To the first, shame on any of you that are accusing Jon or anyone else of fraud regarding the raffle, simply on the basis of the outcome, and that alone. The accusation you are leveling is very serious, so unless you actually have some bonafide evidence, please take accept my offer of some cheese to go with your whine and just go away. You're being a jerk.

As for the ethics question (raised by Clyde) w.r.t. moderators and other volunteers for the board being eligible to participate in the raffle, that's certainly a very gray area wide open to many positions none of which have a lock on "the truth" regarding above-board behavior.

Clyde makes a valid point regarding an "appearance" issue when someone connected in some way with the enterprise is a big winner in the raffle.

On the other hand, there is a quite reasonable segmentation between the Bimmerfest annual event and the operation of the on-line bboard as rather distinct entitites as well. As such, those who are part of the team making the bboard work for the on-line community, but have absolutely no involvement with the annual event, can be argued to be no different than any other attendee w.r.t. to participation.

That's how I see it, so I don't see any legitimate conflict of interest, and therefore ethical problem with board mods being a part of the raffle and winning prizes.
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  #50  
Old 04-25-2005, 02:03 PM
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RKT_BMR nailed it pretty good. I am also a moderator here at 'fest and I put in $20 (4 tickets) fully expecting not to get anything and I wasn't dissappointed!

The ticket buying was being run by the lovely Mrs. Kari Shafer with her kids as assistants and it was all set up in one corner of the dealership on a little table and wire-caged spinning cylinder (raffle box) into which all the tickets were immediately placed after purchase and after writing you name on them.

The roll of tickets and a money box along with some pens were all that was sitting on the table along with the raffle box and a list of the 50 or so prizes and their values. There was also a large poster board of the charity we were all donating to.

Everyone at 'fest had the same opportunity to count tickets, read the prize list, and make whatever donations they wanted based on whatever they felt like basing it on.



So that is how it went down. I do not see how any fraud could have taken place by anyone.

As I said in another thread: beewang, until the tire win which was his last win of the raffle although not the last prizes given, had just barely broken even and we had to include the tax-deductable-ness of his donation to do that!



There you go...all the facts...now make your decisions but this thread has no reason to continue in the rather unpleasent tone it has taken....
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