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E46 M3 (2001-2006)

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  #26  
Old 04-26-2005, 08:52 PM
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SergioK SergioK is offline
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  #27  
Old 04-26-2005, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergioK
If that's what makes you happy, go for it!
Guess I could have bought the 1100 , But I'm pretty sure that the 954 in my garage could smoke that down too(Given I learn how to ride the damn thing)..But a 323 with mods with a value over a stock M would justify everything..
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  #28  
Old 04-26-2005, 11:08 PM
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I'm absolutely sure the 954 would smoke my 1100, but I didn't buy it for sheer 0-60 times. I think the R1100S is the best sport tourer out there because it has everything I want and need in a motorcycle. Of course, to each his own. I don't focus so much on acceleration but more on ride characteristics (BMWs are notorious for their suspension geometry which is singularly the best, IMO).
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  #29  
Old 04-26-2005, 11:08 PM
Bavarian46 Bavarian46 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergioK
My car's suspension was bone stock (and it's not even an M) and it wasn't til I made instructor rank that I modded it.

Now, you might not be as patient... but if I were to do any mods to an M3, perhaps I'd start with the suspension. Not sure though, since I don't need one, yet!
Thank you ditto on the suspension. Also since i got the 19" M rims on it, i dont think it would hurt to get lighter rims? and i dont know if it would be in my budget but still considering A ZMI Titanium/aluminum brake kit but i dont know too much about them.

If anybody has seen or used them, please comment.

or anything you think would help in my crusade?
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  #30  
Old 04-27-2005, 02:42 AM
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If you haven't had several track sessions, and now know exactly what you need, DON'T MOD THE CAR. You may THINK you know how to drive and to handle your car, but you don't.

If you have 19s plan on getting a set of light 18, if for no other reason more R-com tires are available.

If you aren't cooking the brakes with track pads, don't do anything to the brakes. Not everyone finds the stock brakes, with good pads and fluid to be a big problem Learn how to properly brake first.

As for engine mods, there is not much you can do to the engine to make more power without going forced induction or takingthe engine engine out, apart and building it from the ground up.

PTG's engine building claims 380 HP form a blueprint and conversion to MOTEC engine management. The MOTEC system is about $8000 itself. Nowack in Germany can get a claimed 404 DIN HP (about 395 - 398 US HP) by a complete top to bottom rebuild with replacing lots of parts. Costs about $15,000.

Headers, CAI, exhaust, software all give SMALL gains. Cams go a bit better. There just isn't a lot of cheap and easy power to get out of these engines, the factory did a heck of job making them put out over 100 HP per liter. If all you want to do is go faster in a straight line, you picked the wrong car to buy. The M3 is about balance and handling.

BTW you mention autocross, if you autocross or plan ot do so, get a copy of the rule books that people run to in your area. It is a royal pain to do something like the ZMI brakes on your car, then find you are running Prepared or Modified against fully prepped cars that arrive on a trailer.

BTW the CSL is not US legal (carbon fiber roof and bumpers), and definately not CA legal (not designed or certified to US emissions specs). The GTR hasn't been made for several years, and was a bit expensive. Not sure if it ever was US legal.

Now if you save your money, you can contact Hartge and have them do a 5 liter V8 swap into the car. That car will do an honest 200+ MPH according to a Euro tuner shootout held last year. Shouldn't be more than $20,000 - $30,000 or so.
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Last edited by Pinecone; 04-27-2005 at 02:45 AM.
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  #31  
Old 04-27-2005, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavarian46
Granted a good driver will always prevail over a bad driver, also I’m not claiming to be an autox champion here…but I do know my car and how to drive it.

I guess I now REGRET getting a Stock M3, I should have gotten an M3 CSL or GTR Street version.

Since everybody keeps their M3 Stock (I guess every modified M3 at bimmerfest was a fake), does anybody know where I can buy CSL parts or GTR for a ’05 M3 SMG
Hey, If you want a little more push on your M3 you can go to the turner website and look for the carbon fiber intake and shark injector. Then look for the Borla exhaust on Ebay, you might want to lower your car so, Eibach springs, should do the trick. After that try getting a 3 or 4 point harness installed, and you'll have a sweet ride
WBMWF1
04' M3 SMG
As you can see not evryone here thinks you shouldn't do mods to your car!...By the way I found almost everything on Ebay and didn't have to spend that much money, but watch out for the cost of installation. If you're a handy dude, you can do most of it on your own, but like I said just if you're a handy(detail oriented) person.....
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  #32  
Old 04-27-2005, 05:32 AM
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How much research did you do before you bought your M3?

Based on what you're asking for, it appears to me that you may have made a huge mistake.

Alex
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  #33  
Old 04-27-2005, 01:01 PM
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WHo said to not mod the car? We siad don't mod the car without spending time figuring out what you need. And engine mods, like CAIs and software, are pretty much a waste of money on these cars. And, if you want to go faster at the track, upgrade suspension, not engine. MUCH better bang for the buck. But chances are, the car is much faster than he is a driver, and spending that $2K on track time and tires is an even BETTER return on investment.

Some good mods that don't cost, pull the front camber pin and dial in more negative camber. Or swap the front hats for even more negative camber. Put a set of shocks on the car (stock ones lose 50% or their dampening in 10K miles). These will help the car perform better in a proven method. Next mod, GOOD front sway, RTABs. Notice none of these are ENGINE mods.

Changing the brakes for ZMI setup is neither proven nor necessary at this point. But they sure look cool.
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  #34  
Old 04-27-2005, 01:32 PM
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Bavarian46, before you make up your mind about what you want to do, I'd like to invite you to the next BMWCCA school at Buttonwillow (June 11th?) or come to the BMWCCA event at California Speedway. It's free admission, but you can hitch rides with instructors and see what real high performance driving is like.

It's an eye opener. At least that way you have some valid research and information you need to make the right decision in making your car faster. There are plenty of heavily modded M3s at any of these events and usually several prepared racecars from instructors, and you'll be able to experience FIRST HAND what each mod can do for your car.

That and a few rides in a certain instructor's E36 318i will probably change your entire prespective on what makes a car go fast.
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  #35  
Old 04-27-2005, 01:34 PM
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  #36  
Old 04-27-2005, 02:10 PM
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K&N Intake for M3.. 18.65 hp gain. Noise level is nearly the same as stock. Best bang for your buck..

http://www.modbargains.com/product.a...46%2Dintake013

Pics of it installed here
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=65786

Pair that with a Supersprint Race Exhaust and you'll be on your way with a faster m3 for a little over 2k..

http://www.mperformance.com/store/co...?idproduct=577
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Last edited by budman2003; 04-27-2005 at 02:12 PM.
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  #37  
Old 04-27-2005, 02:15 PM
Bavarian46 Bavarian46 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone
If you haven't had several track sessions, and now know exactly what you need, DON'T MOD THE CAR. You may THINK you know how to drive and to handle your car, but you don't.

If you have 19s plan on getting a set of light 18, if for no other reason more R-com tires are available.

If you aren't cooking the brakes with track pads, don't do anything to the brakes. Not everyone finds the stock brakes, with good pads and fluid to be a big problem Learn how to properly brake first.

As for engine mods, there is not much you can do to the engine to make more power without going forced induction or takingthe engine engine out, apart and building it from the ground up.

PTG's engine building claims 380 HP form a blueprint and conversion to MOTEC engine management. The MOTEC system is about $8000 itself. Nowack in Germany can get a claimed 404 DIN HP (about 395 - 398 US HP) by a complete top to bottom rebuild with replacing lots of parts. Costs about $15,000.

Headers, CAI, exhaust, software all give SMALL gains. Cams go a bit better. There just isn't a lot of cheap and easy power to get out of these engines, the factory did a heck of job making them put out over 100 HP per liter. If all you want to do is go faster in a straight line, you picked the wrong car to buy. The M3 is about balance and handling.

BTW you mention autocross, if you autocross or plan ot do so, get a copy of the rule books that people run to in your area. It is a royal pain to do something like the ZMI brakes on your car, then find you are running Prepared or Modified against fully prepped cars that arrive on a trailer.

BTW the CSL is not US legal (carbon fiber roof and bumpers), and definately not CA legal (not designed or certified to US emissions specs). The GTR hasn't been made for several years, and was a bit expensive. Not sure if it ever was US legal.

Now if you save your money, you can contact Hartge and have them do a 5 liter V8 swap into the car. That car will do an honest 200+ MPH according to a Euro tuner shootout held last year. Shouldn't be more than $20,000 - $30,000 or so.
Thanks for the suggestion on the 18…looking for some now.

On the brake comment...I don’t find nothing wrong with the stock brakes, they are sweet, it was just a thought to have a few pounds removed…since the first few comment I got on the forum was to lose weight.

On the engine mods, Bravo…straight answers, thank you. You know your stuff. All I’m looking for is SMALL gains…not looking for a rocket to blow up on me. And I picked the M3 because it’s BMW that’s all, I love corvettes, Ferrari, Lambo’s, but those are 2 seats (don’t anybody get offended…but I hate JapCr*P) The M3 is all about proper balance and handling, sure, not saying it isn’t.

BTW the CSL. Something like that would not surprise me…but again still does not say I cant have one…There are ways around it. $$$ and the GTR “overkill” once again sorry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wbmwf1
Hey, If you want a little more push on your M3 you can go to the turner website and look for the carbon fiber intake and shark injector. Then look for the Borla exhaust on Ebay, you might want to lower your car so, Eibach springs, should do the trick. After that try getting a 3 or 4 point harness installed, and you'll have a sweet ride
WBMWF1
04' M3 SMG
As you can see not evryone here thinks you shouldn't do mods to your car!...By the way I found almost everything on Ebay and didn't have to spend that much money, but watch out for the cost of installation. If you're a handy dude, you can do most of it on your own, but like I said just if you're a handy(detail oriented) person.....
Congrats, thanks for the info. I will look on ebay. Borla…uhh I don’t know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BahnBaum
How much research did you do before you bought your M3?

Based on what you're asking for, it appears to me that you may have made a huge mistake.

Alex
Alex
Reeea serrrch whats that? …jk
Well I don’t know what to say…I love M3s and don’t want a twin turbo nitrous blown pieces of SH_T…(not yet?) all I was inquiring was a little information on whats available for those cars…so I may consider (is it worth it) and when I need it put it. Everybody thinks that I want a MONSTER and that I cant drive for sh_t cause I have not went to scKooool (maybe…. ) I will not know until I go to school.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone
Some good mods that don't cost, pull the front camber pin and dial in more negative camber. Or swap the front hats for even more negative camber. Put a set of shocks on the car (stock ones lose 50% or their dampening in 10K miles). These will help the car perform better in a proven method. Next mod, GOOD front sway, RTABs. Notice none of these are ENGINE mods.

Changing the brakes for ZMI setup is neither proven nor necessary at this point. But they sure look cool.
They are cool looking?
Thank for the info, I was told the same thing about the camber pins. Also I’m not looking only necessarily for engine mods, just stuff that M3 owners have done and enjoyed (not to say I would enjoy too, but worth the knowledge)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK
Bavarian46, before you make up your mind about what you want to do, I'd like to invite you to the next BMWCCA school at Buttonwillow (June 11th?) or come to the BMWCCA event at California Speedway. It's free admission, but you can hitch rides with instructors and see what real high performance driving is like.

It's an eye opener. At least that way you have some valid research and information you need to make the right decision in making your car faster. There are plenty of heavily modded M3s at any of these events and usually several prepared racecars from instructors, and you'll be able to experience FIRST HAND what each mod can do for your car.

That and a few rides in a certain instructor's E36 318i will probably change your entire prespective on what makes a car go fast.
I will look into that (don’t have many days off)…When will the BMWCCA event in CALspeedway be? Thank you. (I looked at the website and did not see it, or just missed it…will look again)

Quote:
Originally Posted by budman2003
K&N Intake for M3.. 18.65 hp gain. Noise level is nearly the same as stock. Best bang for your buck..

http://www.modbargains.com/product.a...46%2Dintake013

Pics of it installed here
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=65786

Hope this helps
NICE.

Last edited by Bavarian46; 04-27-2005 at 02:19 PM.
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  #38  
Old 04-27-2005, 02:16 PM
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  #39  
Old 04-27-2005, 02:33 PM
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The HACK The HACK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavarian46
I will look into that (don’t have many days off)…When will the BMWCCA event in CALspeedway be? Thank you. (I looked at the website and did not see it, or just missed it…will look again).
Yeah that's one thing that I struggle with too, finding the balance of days off to go get my track addiction fix. The California Speedway event is usually in the middle of August, I think the first or second weekend (Saturday and Sunday). It should be up on www.bmwclubla.org in a few weeks, if not keep an eye out here as the event draws closer, those of us going will start chattering about it in either the track forum or the event forum.

I think the biggest benefit, is you will meet a lot of people with M3s and a lot of mods on their cars, and they'll be able to give you tangible ideas and proof as to what the particular mod did for their car, because often times you can't fully appreciate a certain mod (suspension, especially) unless you push it to the limit on the track, and that's where some of the problems with a mod can rear its ugly head. They'll be able to tell you don't get XXX because it fades upon braking, get YYY because it'll give you effective power when you need it, or ZZZ because it really works. Guys who take their car to the track can truly appreciate 100% of the mods they put on the car and I would trust their opinions more than some guy I meet on the internet.

Edit: Aug 13-14 is the school at California Speedway.

Last edited by The HACK; 04-27-2005 at 02:43 PM.
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  #40  
Old 04-27-2005, 03:10 PM
Bavarian46 Bavarian46 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK
Yeah that's one thing that I struggle with too, finding the balance of days off to go get my track addiction fix. The California Speedway event is usually in the middle of August, I think the first or second weekend (Saturday and Sunday). It should be up on www.bmwclubla.org in a few weeks, if not keep an eye out here as the event draws closer, those of us going will start chattering about it in either the track forum or the event forum.
Thank you. I would try not to miss it.
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  #41  
Old 04-27-2005, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by budman2003
K&N Intake for M3.. 18.65 hp gain. Noise level is nearly the same as stock. Best bang for your buck..

http://www.modbargains.com/product.a...46%2Dintake013

Pics of it installed here
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=65786

Pair that with a Supersprint Race Exhaust and you'll be on your way with a faster m3 for a little over 2k..

http://www.mperformance.com/store/co...?idproduct=577
18HP? Good luck with that.
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  #42  
Old 04-28-2005, 01:43 PM
JPinTO JPinTO is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavarian46
but I do know my car and how to drive it.
I'll reiterate some of the earlier comments made by experienced track people.

I've had my M for 2 years now, and just came from my first BMW Club Driver training event at Mosport Raceway. Going into the event last Friday-- after 20 years of driving, I thought I knew my car and how to drive it.

Now that the weekend is over, I realize how little I know... or more precisely how much more there is to know. It was truly the best experience of my life.... eye opening really. I now realize what I had suspected---- that I have developed a sloppy driving style, and the M's high street thresholds masked it. The best mods I can make to my M is to improve my abilities.

Now, I was driving in cold temps (hi-30's Brrrr) with minor suspension mods (springs, Konis) and the last thing I needed was more power. The M3 is well beyond my beginner track abilities.... but I'm willing to learn and get better.

For upgrades, I'm thinking this is the most effective way to get faster on the track:

- Driver Training School
- Brake Pad Upgrade
- Driver Training School
- Tire Upgrade
- Driver Training School
- Coilovers
- Driver Training School
- Brakes or Lighter wheels

Last edited by JPinTO; 04-28-2005 at 01:46 PM.
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  #43  
Old 04-28-2005, 01:54 PM
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Pinecone Pinecone is offline
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Yeah, let's see BMW gets 17 HP from intake, cams, etc. Euro M3 343 - CSL 360. PTG says 333 - 380 with blueprint and MOTEC (NO HFM restriction and the carbon fiber airbox used on the race cars, something like a 4 inch opening). Nowack gets about 60 HP with a full rebuild, including rods, pistons, head work, cams, intake and exhaust.

Yeap, I believe 18 HP from an intake alone. Especially since the M3 comes stock with a CAI, two inlets, one over the radiator draws air form in front, the other in the drivers side brake duct.

WRT doing some minor gains thing, you will not feel it, and you will not see it in lap times. As for the ZMI brakes, a LOT of money for a few pounds off, you can loose much more with changing out the seats.

SPEND THE MONEY ON SCHOOLS. After a school or two, you will need new pads. And you will keep using pads. After a bunch of schools, you will need wheels and tires (R-comps). Then shocks. These will eat up your budget with things that WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
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  #44  
Old 04-28-2005, 02:19 PM
JPinTO JPinTO is offline
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At the power pullies worth doing... or is that just another trivial improvement like CAI?
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  #45  
Old 04-28-2005, 02:42 PM
Bavarian46 Bavarian46 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPinTO
I'll reiterate some of the earlier comments made by experienced track people.

I've had my M for 2 years now, and just came from my first BMW Club Driver training event at Mosport Raceway. Going into the event last Friday-- after 20 years of driving, I thought I knew my car and how to drive it.

Now that the weekend is over, I realize how little I know... or more precisely how much more there is to know. It was truly the best experience of my life.... eye opening really. I now realize what I had suspected---- that I have developed a sloppy driving style, and the M's high street thresholds masked it. The best mods I can make to my M is to improve my abilities.

Now, I was driving in cold temps (hi-30's Brrrr) with minor suspension mods (springs, Konis) and the last thing I needed was more power. The M3 is well beyond my beginner track abilities.... but I'm willing to learn and get better.

For upgrades, I'm thinking this is the most effective way to get faster on the track:

- Driver Training School
- Brake Pad Upgrade
- Driver Training School
- Tire Upgrade
- Driver Training School
- Coilovers
- Driver Training School
- Brakes or Lighter wheels

Tic tock tic tock... IM GOING TO SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AHHHHHHHHHHHH
Sorry about that I just hate repeating myself.
I have never put down school; I love school...any school (higher education is always the best way) quit busting my balls here. I have said (wrote) that I may not be the best driver out there and granted there are proven methods out there which are better (i.e. school) where I will find out where I rank but till then, I can get by hitting the canyons. (Just for fun...not here to win trophies) and I know I would have an astonishing time once I take the course.

Till then all I really wanted from this post was: what mods are out there for my 05 M3 SMG, and for the people that have a SMG M3 modify, Are you happy with the mods.
(Everyone threw the school without knowing me…I could be Dale Earnhardt jr. for all they know)
In regard to your mod list…I thank you so much…much appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone
Yeah, let's see BMW gets 17 HP from intake, cams, etc. Euro M3 343 - CSL 360. PTG says 333 - 380 with blueprint and MOTEC (NO HFM restriction and the carbon fiber airbox used on the race cars, something like a 4 inch opening). Nowack gets about 60 HP with a full rebuild, including rods, pistons, head work, cams, intake and exhaust.

Yeap, I believe 18 HP from an intake alone. Especially since the M3 comes stock with a CAI, two inlets, one over the radiator draws air form in front, the other in the drivers side brake duct.

WRT doing some minor gains thing, you will not feel it, and you will not see it in lap times. As for the ZMI brakes, a LOT of money for a few pounds off, you can loose much more with changing out the seats.

.
Thank you for the information Pinecone…also much appreciated.
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  #46  
Old 04-28-2005, 03:52 PM
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The HACK The HACK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavarian46
(Everyone threw the school without knowing me…I could be Dale Earnhardt jr. for all they know)
Well, that's the thing...If you were Dale Earnhardt Jr., you wouldn't be asking about mods to make your M3 go faster. Dale (or any race car driver) will already know that it's the DRIVER, not the car that limit their speed.

I know we're giving you a hard time...But all we're trying to do is give you what we think are the best advice we can give you. Really, if you're looking for more speed for the M3, modifying it isn't the right way to go.
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  #47  
Old 04-28-2005, 06:33 PM
Bavarian46 Bavarian46 is offline
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Location: Camarillo
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 33
Mein Auto: UDM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK
Well, that's the thing...If you were Dale Earnhardt Jr., you wouldn't be asking about mods to make your M3 go faster. Dale (or any race car driver) will already know that it's the DRIVER, not the car that limit their speed.

I know we're giving you a hard time...But all we're trying to do is give you what we think are the best advice we can give you. Really, if you're looking for more speed for the M3, modifying it isn't the right way to go.

Right....DEjr would know exactly what it take to fix a car up, but just for say I’m dale and i just bought this M3...he knows NASCAR but it could be his first Bimmers...And he posted the same POST, everybody knowing who he is...what would you recommend him if he wanted little mods that ya'll all love...granted he could make his own or just buy whatever him eyes content...all he would just want is everybody’s input on what they found from personal experience.

I feel everybody’s concern, thank you thank you thank you
All I wanted REALLY was information on what out there. And warn me about certain companies that have cheapSh*T. Forget about my need for speed and tell me about cool products.

I would like to thank everybody for their comments, support and concerns. VIVA LA M3 cheers
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  #48  
Old 04-28-2005, 07:17 PM
Shades's Avatar
Shades Shades is offline
Estoril Blue Black Nappa
Location: Toronto
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 358
Mein Auto: 2005 M3
There are quite a few people on the www.m3forum.net that have done engine mods.You should be able to get quite a bit of info there.Good luck.
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  #49  
Old 04-28-2005, 07:19 PM
Bavarian46 Bavarian46 is offline
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Location: Camarillo
 
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Posts: 33
Mein Auto: UDM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shades
There are quite a few people on the www.m3forum.net that have done engine mods.You should be able to get quite a bit of info there.Good luck.
Thank you.
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  #50  
Old 04-28-2005, 08:43 PM
wbmwf1 wbmwf1 is offline
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Location: Studio City, CA
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4
Mein Auto: 04'-M3
Bavarian46,
the thing about doing mods to your car is, that no matter how much money you throuw at it you keep wanting more! I have a buddy of mine that has a 02' M3 that is completely decked out, and he still wants more. Here's the list of what he has on his car, but I warn you it's a sh*t load of money for the gain....:
Dinnan software, Dinnan Strut towers braces, Coil overs, Crossdrilled rotors, CSL rims, Euro Headers, Borla exhaust, Carbon fibre intake, Carbon Fiber Hood & Trunk, Carbon Fiber interior trim, ACS Diffuser, Hamann front splitter, Club Sport Wing.
From all of that the only thing actually making power are the euro headers, combined with the intake and exhaust...(guesstimating) about a 40Hp gain. software will change throttle response, and will give you a bit more ageassive curve on the engine and raising the rev limiter.
What has helped besides this little gain has been the drop in weight with the carbon hood and trunk, plus the exhaust is about 30lbs instead of the heavy stock one. As I stated before, there are many things you can do to your car, but it takes a lot of money. I trust the dealer told you how to use the tricks of your SMG. Personally I noticed a huge difference in my car once I lowered it, it feels so stable it's crazy, but you can feel the bumps on the road a lot as well. As for resonse on your car, you can go with software, intake, and exhaust. This combo will give you what you're looking for, trust me. Do your research and try to find the best deal. Good luck on your search bud......once you start on the road of making mods to your car you won't ever come back......besides, it's your car and it should look and feel like your car, not like every other on the road......
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