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E46 (1999 - 2006)
The fourth generation 3 Series (E46 chassis) was introduced in 1999 and set the standard for engineering and performance during it's years of production including being named to Car & Driver's 10 best list every one of those years! ! -- View the E46 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 04-30-2005, 08:36 AM
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Alright, did I do something bad?

Well, I've been driving my car like a stole it and was taking a 90 degree turn aggressively without the damn DSC off

So I take the turn, and as the rear begins to break loose, the Right rear wheel gets a little electronic braking that just jars the car.

Did I do anything bad to the wheel, suspension, anything?

Car seems to be driving normally, but just concerned. Could use the input and the comforting
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  #2  
Old 04-30-2005, 09:50 AM
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A$$-uming that there were 13views and no responses I guess everything is A-O.K.
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  #3  
Old 04-30-2005, 10:03 AM
thelookingglass thelookingglass is offline
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25 views now... it's either A-Ok or "i have no clue." The latter applies in my case.
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  #4  
Old 04-30-2005, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by thelookingglass
25 views now... it's either A-Ok or "i have no clue." The latter applies in my case.
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  #5  
Old 04-30-2005, 10:09 AM
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machmeter machmeter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel-man
the Right rear wheel gets a little electronic braking that just jars the car.
Jarring as in when the ABS kicks in? Kinda like da-da-da-da-da in the brakes? That would be normal, me thinketh.
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  #6  
Old 04-30-2005, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machmeter
Jarring as in when the ABS kicks in? Kinda like da-da-da-da-da in the brakes? That would be normal, me thinketh.
Not like ABS... like standing on the brakes for the Right rear wheel only. It was weird and I was all paranoid afterwards.
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  #7  
Old 04-30-2005, 10:33 AM
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Your car is probably fine. Anyway, it's designed to save your a$$ from sliding off the road so it apparently works. Better than having that beautiful CalTrans shrubbery coming through your side window
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  #8  
Old 04-30-2005, 10:35 AM
bluskye bluskye is offline
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Its DSC doing it's job to correct your oversteer. There's nothing wrong, stop being paranoid.
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  #9  
Old 04-30-2005, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by bluskye
Its DSC doing it's job to correct your oversteer. There's nothing wrong, stop being paranoid.
You're right... but just because you think they're coming after you, doesn't mean that they aren't

I am probably one of the more paranoid peeps on this forum when it comes to my car. I need a lift in the garage so I can check things out whenever I want.
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  #10  
Old 04-30-2005, 11:21 AM
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Here's what I'm thinking. Dynamic Brake Assist can apply the brakes to each wheel independently based on what it thinks your intended path is. Did you have DSC completely off (ie holding it down for 5 seconds), or just the first level off (ie tapping the button)?
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  #11  
Old 04-30-2005, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icemanjs4
Here's what I'm thinking. Dynamic Brake Assist can apply the brakes to each wheel independently based on what it thinks your intended path is. Did you have DSC completely off (ie holding it down for 5 seconds), or just the first level off (ie tapping the button)?

Unfortunately I had it on
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Old 04-30-2005, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel-man
Unfortunately I had it on
Or, depending upon how skilled a driver you are, you're fortunate you had it on.

DSC did what it was supposed to, which is to act as a strict little electronic nanny. There's nothing wrong with your car.

Alex
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  #13  
Old 04-30-2005, 12:57 PM
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when i was driving an x3 at one of those mini-autocross events and when the dsc kicked in, it scared the crap out of me. it felt like what you describe 'jarring' i felt like the car was breaking apart or something.
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  #14  
Old 04-30-2005, 01:23 PM
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You're fine. One of the first things I did after buying my was to "test" with DSC in a wet parking lot. Fun.
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Old 04-30-2005, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by KrisL
You're fine. One of the first things I did after buying my was to "test" with DSC in a wet parking lot. Fun.
Fun AND educational. How many people have purchased a new car with ABS for the first time and, when ABS kicks in for the first time with the pedal feedback, have taken their foot OFF the brake, thinking they had some kind of brake failure? Plenty, methinks.
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  #16  
Old 04-30-2005, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BahnBaum
Or, depending upon how skilled a driver you are, you're fortunate you had it on.

DSC did what it was supposed to, which is to act as a strict little electronic nanny. There's nothing wrong with your car.

Alex
You should see how unmerciful the cars at the BMW Performance Center in Spartanburg get hammered by clubfooted bafoons on a regular basis. I don't think any more damage was done to your car than if, say, you lost traction due to surface while cornering, and suddenly one tire stuck and straightened you out a bit. Actually, likely less, since your brakes were doing the modulation: there wasn't an external traction or friction shock to the geometry, just a nice little slowing of one or two wheels to get you back in line.
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  #17  
Old 04-30-2005, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMC
Fun AND educational. How many people have purchased a new car with ABS for the first time and, when ABS kicks in for the first time with the pedal feedback, have taken their foot OFF the brake, thinking they had some kind of brake failure? Plenty, methinks.
Duh, that's what testdriving cars is for :-) Seriously though - that's how I got over my ABS phobia - by testing out the brakes on other cars. Now it doesn't bother me at all other than feeling a bit weird.

Hey is it legal to go to an open parking lot with no cars and start doing doughnuts and the like in order to learn your car's limits? I'm not talking about doing stupid stuff, but I want to know what my car can and can't do in a safer environment than on the road. But the cops out here are merciless. Can you get pulled over for this?

And no- I'm not a street racer, or some punk kid - I just want to get to know my car better. Thanks
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  #18  
Old 04-30-2005, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icemanjs4
And no- I'm not a street racer, or some punk kid - I just want to get to know my car better. Thanks

Good question...

Can I recommend BMWCCA car control clinics and autocrosses?
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  #19  
Old 05-01-2005, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BahnBaum
Or, depending upon how skilled a driver you are, you're fortunate you had it on.

DSC did what it was supposed to, which is to act as a strict little electronic nanny. There's nothing wrong with your car.

Alex
I'm all for leaving the DSC on until you truely become a skilled driver.

Today at driving school at Road America, a guy I meet this week (parked next to him) was taking his wife around the track during the morning track touring (50mph limit). He turned his DSC on his M5 off during staging, and then before we left, it started to rain. Well, lap one, he entered the second slowest turn, that has a lot of tar patches. He spun a complete 360 (and thankfully stayed on the track).

Same spot with me a little later (before I heard his story), I hit the same spot at a similar speed and my rear end twitched over may 10 degrees before DSC saved it and I drove on thinking it that wasn't so bad.
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  #20  
Old 05-02-2005, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel-man
Well, I've been driving my car like a stole it and was taking a 90 degree turn aggressively without the damn DSC off

So I take the turn, and as the rear begins to break loose, the Right rear wheel gets a little electronic braking that just jars the car.

Did I do anything bad to the wheel, suspension, anything?

Car seems to be driving normally, but just concerned. Could use the input and the comforting
This is probably going to offend you, but if you take my advice to heart it will save your life later. Really.

Go take a car control clinic or a high performance driving school before you "experiment" on the street with your skills. Situation like you described where dynamic brakes are kicking in to save your life, may not be correctable via DSC or dynamic brakes the next time. There's only so much in car electronics can do to buffer you from the forces of physics.

Once you have taken a car control clinic you will know exactly what you need to do to prevent an oversteer situation, and once you have taken a few high performance driving schools you will understand that driving aggressively and snapping the steering wheel around a corner is NOT the fast way around the corner. You need to turn in smoothly and hit the gas on the apex and track out.

That being said, it doesn't sound right that the brakes applying is harsh enough to be "jarring". I've experienced DSC and dynamic brakes kicking in at the limit of adhesion (oh, about 120+ mph on the banking ovals of California Speedway) and it feels more like a pulsing sensation in your brake pedal, with what can best described as light "thumps" you hear from the the ABS control unit rapidly engaging/disengaging the brakes. If the brakes are applied hard enough by dynamic brakes to jar the car, it may upset the weight balance enough were you tank-slap around and spin the otherway out of control. I have yet to experience DSC kick in hard enough were I can feel it outside of the flashing lights on the dash and very slight, seat of the pants feel when it kicks in.

EDIT: My apologies if you have had a few schools already. Judging from your post I have to assume that you have not had proper driver's training.
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  #21  
Old 05-02-2005, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK
This is probably going to offend you, but if you take my advice to heart it will save your life later. Really.

Go take a car control clinic or a high performance driving school before you "experiment" on the street with your skills. Situation like you described where dynamic brakes are kicking in to save your life, may not be correctable via DSC or dynamic brakes the next time. There's only so much in car electronics can do to buffer you from the forces of physics.

Once you have taken a car control clinic you will know exactly what you need to do to prevent an oversteer situation, and once you have taken a few high performance driving schools you will understand that driving aggressively and snapping the steering wheel around a corner is NOT the fast way around the corner. You need to turn in smoothly and hit the gas on the apex and track out.

That being said, it doesn't sound right that the brakes applying is harsh enough to be "jarring". I've experienced DSC and dynamic brakes kicking in at the limit of adhesion (oh, about 120+ mph on the banking ovals of California Speedway) and it feels more like a pulsing sensation in your brake pedal, with what can best described as light "thumps" you hear from the the ABS control unit rapidly engaging/disengaging the brakes. If the brakes are applied hard enough by dynamic brakes to jar the car, it may upset the weight balance enough were you tank-slap around and spin the otherway out of control. I have yet to experience DSC kick in hard enough were I can feel it outside of the flashing lights on the dash and very slight, seat of the pants feel when it kicks in.

EDIT: My apologies if you have had a few schools already. Judging from your post I have to assume that you have not had proper driver's training.
Nope HACK, your observation is correct. I have yet to have any formal teaching in high speed driving, and I plan to shortly. Unfortunately, I'm a resident right now and haven't had the time. Soon, I will be enrolling in Skip Barbar for a 2day driving school and look forward to more teaching afterward. And I will freely admit that I'm not at the point to take my car to it's limits safely. That said, I wasn't trying to take the curve in the fastest possible manner, which I've learned as you mentioned to take the turn smoothly and accelerate out of the apex. I was just trying to have a little fun and induce some tail-slide, but you're probably right that the DSC may have saved me from something disasterous.

Thanks for your input and of course no offense taken and no apologies needed. Just wanted to make sure I didn't break something in my car. And thankfully, based on how it's driving and the replies I've received, the DSC did its job and the car is in good shape.
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Old 05-02-2005, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel-man
Nope HACK, your observation is correct. I have yet to have any formal teaching in high speed driving, and I plan to shortly. Unfortunately, I'm a resident right now and haven't had the time. Soon, I will be enrolling in Skip Barbar for a 2day driving school and look forward to more teaching afterward. And I will freely admit that I'm not at the point to take my car to it's limits safely. That said, I wasn't trying to take the curve in the fastest possible manner, which I've learned as you mentioned to take the turn smoothly and accelerate out of the apex. I was just trying to have a little fun and induce some tail-slide, but you're probably right that the DSC may have saved me from something disasterous.

Thanks for your input and of course no offense taken and no apologies needed. Just wanted to make sure I didn't break something in my car. And thankfully, based on how it's driving and the replies I've received, the DSC did its job and the car is in good shape.
I took the two day Skip Barber school, it's really great and you'll learn a lot, it's also a good introduction to high performance driving and the knowledge gained in two days can be built upon (if you're so inclined).

You'd be amazed at how hard your BMW can be driven, I really thrashed mine on a particularly rough autocross this past weekend, so far, everything's as usual, solid as a rock, BMW's are tough cars (one of their best assets).

Ed
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Old 05-03-2005, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by EdCT
I took the two day Skip Barber school, it's really great and you'll learn a lot, it's also a good introduction to high performance driving and the knowledge gained in two days can be built upon (if you're so inclined).

You'd be amazed at how hard your BMW can be driven, I really thrashed mine on a particularly rough autocross this past weekend, so far, everything's as usual, solid as a rock, BMW's are tough cars (one of their best assets).

Ed
Good to know that my car can take a good thrashing. What schools did you do after Skip Barber?
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Old 05-03-2005, 05:39 AM
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Good to know that my car can take a good thrashing. What schools did you do after Skip Barber?
I've done two Barber schools, one SCDA school (at Lime Rock) and one rookie autocross school.

I've also done some track days at Lime Rock, but driving around the 1.5 mile track with a bunch of guys whose aggression outweighs their talent is not for me, especially in a street car.

After the Skippy school, I think the best thing you can do is enroll as a novice in your local autox program; you'll get an instructor on your early runs and you'll continue to work on car control.

Ed
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Old 05-03-2005, 06:04 AM
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The big thing is to get some skidpad time.

A month or so ago, I instructed on a wet skidpad, which was a rather revealing experience. It's amazing how little of a clue people have about what to do when the tail steps out. And even those who know what direction they need to point the wheel are way too ****ing slow about it, even when they expect it.

I haven't spun a car without meaning to in a LONG time. Outside of skidpad time anyway, where I'm still working on hanging the tail out for more than one circuit. (That's a tough balancing act! Catching oversteer is easy, deliberately maintaining a slide isn't.)
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