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E60 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series (E60 chassis) was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E60 is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 05-11-2005, 11:40 AM
wagonman wagonman is offline
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e61 touring vs x5 3.0

for those interested, i priced out an e61 touring (530 xit) vs a comparably equipped x5 3.0. the price difference is 6500 dollars. the touring comes out to 60,650. the x5 comes out to 54,115. since one cannot do ED on an x5, the price differential is even smaller assuming we can do better with ED than not...

rather than compare the x5 to the 5 series touring, how about comporing the x5 to its true competition. the x5 is outdone by the volvo xc90 in my opinion. the volvo is a better designed, safer, more practical suv and its cheaper. the x5 looks better and is bimmer.

for me, the extra 6500 is well worth the exclusivity ( there will be far fewer 530 xit's than x5s) and the functionality.

i completelt understand that i am in the minority though...

Last edited by Ågent99; 05-11-2005 at 01:32 PM.
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  #2  
Old 05-11-2005, 11:45 AM
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iateyourcheese iateyourcheese is offline
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That and it would be silly to have "wagonman" as your username and drive an X5.



I think the e61 looks great. In fact, way better than the sedan.
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  #3  
Old 05-11-2005, 12:14 PM
shabbaman shabbaman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wagonman
for those interested, i priced out an e61 touring (530 xit) vs a comparably equipped x5 3.0. the price difference is 6500 dollars. the touring comes out to 60,650. the x5 comes out to 54,115. since one cannot do ED on an x5, the price differential is even smaller assuming we can do better with ED than not...

rather than compare the x5 to the 5 series touring, how about comporing the x5 to its true competition. the x5 is outdone by the volvo xc90 in my opinion. the volvo is a better designed, safer, more practical suv and its cheaper. the x5 looks better and is bimmer.

for me, the extra 6500 is well worth the exclusivity ( there will be far fewer 530 xit's than x5s) and the functionality.

i completelt understand that i am in the minority though...
How did you get these prices?
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Last edited by Ågent99; 05-11-2005 at 01:32 PM.
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  #4  
Old 05-11-2005, 12:25 PM
wagonman wagonman is offline
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prices

off the bmwusa website. it is easy...i did not include sport package on either model but included just about everything else. no HUD, no active cruise control. no park distance control. those things are goofy!!!

as i say i came up with a price differential msrp of 6500. if you assume ed offers a better deal than regular purchase the gap is even smaller. i could be wrong about this since i know people come up come outragoes deals from time to time.
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  #5  
Old 05-11-2005, 12:26 PM
wagonman wagonman is offline
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i rest my case

Quote:
Originally Posted by iateyourcheese
That and it would be silly to have "wagonman" as your username and drive an X5.



I think the e61 looks great. In fact, way better than the sedan.

apparently, i am not the only one who thinks the wagon looks better than the sedan!
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  #6  
Old 05-11-2005, 01:07 PM
shabbaman shabbaman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wagonman
off the bmwusa website. it is easy...i did not include sport package on either model but included just about everything else. no HUD, no active cruise control. no park distance control. those things are goofy!!!

as i say i came up with a price differential msrp of 6500. if you assume ed offers a better deal than regular purchase the gap is even smaller. i could be wrong about this since i know people come up come outragoes deals from time to time.
I'm sorry...I'm obviously stupid. Can you please specifically list the options that you are including into the cars. You listed the options that you're excluding from the car and made it inherintly difficult to build the same car as you did. Also, for the sake of consistency, can you select the same color for both cars.
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  #7  
Old 05-11-2005, 01:32 PM
shabbaman shabbaman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wagonman
apparently, i am not the only one who thinks the wagon looks better than the sedan!
I completely agree with that statement. I also think the wagon resolves some of the issues with the sedan and I also think it's vastly more versatile than the sedan. MY issue with the E61 is solely based on price. IT'S OVERPRICED. As evidence I offered a comparsion to the X5 3.0.

Here's another price comparison. Take the 530xit, add premium, automatic and xenon (Things that are all standard on a 545)and it's within $300 of a comparable 545i. I don't need the all wheel drive. Winter tires are fine, thank you. Are you kidding me? Also, I may be unusual in this but I forewent the E39 wagon because it wasn't available with the 3.0 liter.
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  #8  
Old 05-11-2005, 01:34 PM
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Ågent99 Ågent99 is offline
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Unfortunately, the BMW touring sedans just aren't all that popular here so you will be severely limited in what is offered. Just look at the sales of BMW's SUV, that is all you need to know what sells here....
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  #9  
Old 05-11-2005, 01:36 PM
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gojira-san gojira-san is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shabbaman
Here's another price comparison. Take the 530xit, add premium, automatic and xenon (Things that are all standard on a 545)and it's within $300 of a comparable 545i. I don't need the all wheel drive. Winter tires are fine, thank you. Are you kidding me? Also, I may be unusual in this but I forewent the E39 wagon because it wasn't available with the 3.0 liter.
Ow, price is another nail in the coffin I guess. I was bummed that only the xi version would be available on the Touring models. The E60 style still hasn't grown on me either, though I admit it does look better in the Touring model vs the sedan. Well, I plan on driving my E39 touring for another 5 years anyway.
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  #10  
Old 05-11-2005, 01:53 PM
mbforme mbforme is offline
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another thing tio keep in mind, if you buy an X5, you will still have technology from several years ago.. I ordered a 530xiT to replace a 325xiT. If i would go for the X5, it would have the same navigation system as my old 325xiT!! Also, the 530xiT has the new engine (faster and more gas efficient) thant the current X5 3.0.

And i totally agree with Wagonman... here in the SF Bay Area you so almost as much X5's driving around as you see Honda Accords!!
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  #11  
Old 05-11-2005, 02:25 PM
shabbaman shabbaman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gojira-san
Ow, price is another nail in the coffin I guess. I was bummed that only the xi version would be available on the Touring models. The E60 style still hasn't grown on me either, though I admit it does look better in the Touring model vs the sedan. Well, I plan on driving my E39 touring for another 5 years anyway.
I wish the E61 came without the AWD. I had a chance to check it out at the NY auto show and it's VERY nice. I loved that the liftgate was automatic and the cloth/spandex straps on the sides of the cargo area and I loved the look of the rear lights (when was the last time someone said that about the E60). And my wife loved it too. But...the sticker price of $51,700 is rediculous. That doesn't even include xenon or leather. With premium, xenon and automatic it's over $55,000. Obviously some people see value in this car (as they've expressed in their posts) and I have to respect that.

But It's killing me to ask...Those people that bought or ordered this wagon, would you be willing to pay more for it than you did? If it cost another $1000 or $1500, would you still consider it? Am I just not seeing the big picture here?
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  #12  
Old 05-11-2005, 02:30 PM
shabbaman shabbaman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbforme
And i totally agree with Wagonman... here in the SF Bay Area you so almost as much X5's driving around as you see Honda Accords!!
It's a Wagon. Nobody will care or notice (outside of the .001% of the population that happens to be in the CCA ).

I WISH Honda Accords drove like BMW's (and cost like Hondas). I'd have no problem assimilating into the crowd with my Honda 530i.
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  #13  
Old 05-11-2005, 02:52 PM
be-em-veh-808 be-em-veh-808 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shabbaman
I wish the E61 came without the AWD. I had a chance to check it out at the NY auto show and it's VERY nice. I loved that the liftgate was automatic and the cloth/spandex straps on the sides of the cargo area and I loved the look of the rear lights (when was the last time someone said that about the E60). And my wife loved it too. But...the sticker price of $51,700 is rediculous. That doesn't even include xenon or leather. With premium, xenon and automatic it's over $55,000. Obviously some people see value in this car (as they've expressed in their posts) and I have to respect that.

But It's killing me to ask...Those people that bought or ordered this wagon, would you be willing to pay more for it than you did? If it cost another $1000 or $1500, would you still consider it? Am I just not seeing the big picture here?
Shabbaman,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the 530 xiT comes with Xenon lights as standard equipment. For US E60/61s, Xenons are $800 options only for 525 and 525xi; standard for all others.

Leather is an optional cost item (standard only on 545i), you're right on there!
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  #14  
Old 05-11-2005, 02:55 PM
wagonman wagonman is offline
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pricing

i agree the 530 xit is expensive. there is no denying it. did anyone ever say bimmers were cheap?

if you want to talk value for money. the real deals in the bmw line are the 325i and 525i. same body styles (for better or for worse), better gas mileage (does anyone care?) for a good deal less and for all practical purposes enough power for most uses.

i will get back to you on prices and options on the e61 touring vs the x3.0

i agree that the touring pushes the envelope price wise...i really wanted it though and i only buy 1 car every 6 years or so....maybe next time i will choose something lower priced. i catually saw photos of the upcoming 3 series touring.

it had nowhere near the grace and elegance of the 5 series. i am not married to wagons. if the sedan version looks better i go for that
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  #15  
Old 05-11-2005, 02:55 PM
be-em-veh-808 be-em-veh-808 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wagonman
off the bmwusa website. it is easy...i did not include sport package on either model but included just about everything else. no HUD, no active cruise control. no park distance control. those things are goofy!!!

as i say i came up with a price differential msrp of 6500. if you assume ed offers a better deal than regular purchase the gap is even smaller. i could be wrong about this since i know people come up come outragoes deals from time to time.
Wagonman,

Sorry if this is a repost, I did not see my first reply to your post.

How/where did you get 530xiT pricing on the bmwusa.com site? I've been checking frequently, but have never found any pricing/option data for the Touring/Estate model on the site.

Please advise
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  #16  
Old 05-11-2005, 02:59 PM
wagonman wagonman is offline
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if it were higher

Quote:
Originally Posted by shabbaman
I wish the E61 came without the AWD. I had a chance to check it out at the NY auto show and it's VERY nice. I loved that the liftgate was automatic and the cloth/spandex straps on the sides of the cargo area and I loved the look of the rear lights (when was the last time someone said that about the E60). And my wife loved it too. But...the sticker price of $51,700 is rediculous. That doesn't even include xenon or leather. With premium, xenon and automatic it's over $55,000. Obviously some people see value in this car (as they've expressed in their posts) and I have to respect that.

But It's killing me to ask...Those people that bought or ordered this wagon, would you be willing to pay more for it than you did? If it cost another $1000 or $1500, would you still consider it? Am I just not seeing the big picture here?
if the touring was 1000 or 1500 would i still consider it? interesting question. i dont know the answer. is it overpriced? the same question could be put to the entire bmw dont you think?

winter tires are a hassle. and, talk about an epense. i want one car that does it all. no snows, no hassles. the e61 is as close as one can get to a do it all vehicle...imho
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  #17  
Old 05-11-2005, 03:03 PM
mbforme mbforme is offline
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i agree the wagon is overpriced and if it was not for ED, i probably would not have ordered it....

If you compare the 530xiT wagon with the Mercedes 320 4matic wagon and upcoming Audi A6 avant, it priced in the middle...
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  #18  
Old 05-11-2005, 03:41 PM
wagonman wagonman is offline
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i agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbforme
i agree the wagon is overpriced and if it was not for ED, i probably would not have ordered it....

If you compare the 530xiT wagon with the Mercedes 320 4matic wagon and upcoming Audi A6 avant, it priced in the middle...
price comparsons are most appropriate with other like models. your above mentioned comps are accurate as those two vehicles are direct competion.

the prices i obtained from my dealer. they are not listed on bmwusa.com --yet. base price on the 530 xit is 51,100. premium package is 2100, cold weather packae is 900. nav is the same 1800, rear side air bags are 385, sat radio is the same. logic7 is the same.

no doubt it is a very expensive car. IMHO all these cars are a lot of money!! compared to the mercedes 320 4 matic and upcoming audi a6 avant the 530 xit is not out of line..

i do agree with shabbaman about pricing, my only comment is that one could make the argument (quite convincingly) that ALL bimmers are overpriced....



i have been planning to buy the 530 xit for at least 8 months. there was little to no info on it until very recently. i was hoping bmw would bring it out at a base price of 49k or so. i was wrong!
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Old 05-11-2005, 06:44 PM
shabbaman shabbaman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wagonman
i do agree with shabbaman about pricing, my only comment is that one could make the argument (quite convincingly) that ALL bimmers are overpriced....

Wagonman, have you been listening (er...reading) to a word of what I'm saying? I'm directly comparing the 530 wagon to a very similar BMW - the X5 and the 530 wagon is, according to you, $6500 more than the X5. So if ALL bimmers are overpriced to begin with then I guess that makes the 530 wagon insanely overpriced.

If you don't think I'm on the ball, consider this comparison - the X3 2.5 and the 325xit. If you add the sunroof to the X3, the 325 is only $1300 more expensive than the X3.


I'm definately beating a dead horse with my ranting but I'm frustrated because BMW has priced this car right out of its' market and they won't spend any money to push it so the car is relegated to sell on it's own merit. And at the end of the day BMW will turn around and say that the wagon is a failure and the US market is not interested. It's all too bad, though because it's a great car. I truly believe that it blows the sedan away. If you look at my Sig you'll see that I have a child seat in my car so I'm exactly the demographic that's sensitive to this car. I need the space and utility that it offers in a more efficient package than the SAV's. I want somebody from BMW to sell me this car.
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Last edited by shabbaman; 05-11-2005 at 06:47 PM.
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  #20  
Old 05-11-2005, 06:46 PM
shabbaman shabbaman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbforme
i agree the wagon is overpriced and if it was not for ED, i probably would not have ordered it....

If you compare the 530xiT wagon with the Mercedes 320 4matic wagon and upcoming Audi A6 avant, it priced in the middle...

Yeah, ED is the way to go. Unfortunately, most people don't take advantage of it.
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  #21  
Old 05-11-2005, 09:53 PM
wagonman wagonman is offline
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i understand

i realize the e61 is expensive. i dont know the hows and whys of bmws thinking regarding pricing. my understanding is that the wagon will be a limited production vehicle.

i dont think that bmw expects to sell alot of them. i hope you are wrong regarding the car being a failure and subsequently discontinuing the model.

bmw wagons have something of a cult following (albeit small). i think as long as audi, and mercedes have a wagon, bmw will have one as well.

i see your point shaba man, regarding price differentials. no disrespect to you at all...

it's true, i wish the base on this car was below 50k. but as a consumer the choice is always our to make. if not for ED and additional 4% discount. i can guarantee you i would not be buying the car. this the absolute most i would pay for any car...and i agree wholeheartedly it is a great deal of money...

i have had moments of nervousness about it thinking, shoot i should have boughta 330i for 14k less! at this point i am just looking forward to the car and hope i enjoy it!
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  #22  
Old 05-12-2005, 04:35 AM
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gojira-san gojira-san is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wagonman
i have had moments of nervousness about it thinking, shoot i should have boughta 330i for 14k less! at this point i am just looking forward to the car and hope i enjoy it!
I am looking forward to your review of the car when you get it.

It's too bad the the station wagon gets such a bad rap here in the US. Maybe with the increased gas prices we'll see a wagon renaissance.
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  #23  
Old 05-12-2005, 06:24 AM
andy_thomas andy_thomas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shabbaman
Wagonman, have you been listening (er...reading) to a word of what I'm saying? I'm directly comparing the 530 wagon to a very similar BMW - the X5 and the 530 wagon is, according to you, $6500 more than the X5. So if ALL bimmers are overpriced to begin with then I guess that makes the 530 wagon insanely overpriced.

If you don't think I'm on the ball, consider this comparison - the X3 2.5 and the 325xit. If you add the sunroof to the X3, the 325 is only $1300 more expensive than the X3.
Where is the X5 made? Where is the 5er touring made (and the 3er touring and X3 for that matter)? What is the current €/$ FX rate? All these questions and more
Quote:
I'm definately beating a dead horse with my ranting but I'm frustrated because BMW has priced this car right out of its' market
Do you mean the market for luxury European station wagons? It appears to be right in the middle. I don't know about the US market, but in most other places the SUV and station wagon markets don't have a lot to do with each other.

Here (UK) the 530d estate is quite a bit cheaper than the equivalent X5. Truth be told more people buy the X5 because of the size, height and bling factor; they wouldn't be interested in a boring old wagon that could run rings around the X5 in every objective factor except the ability to cross a muddy field (which they wouldn't appreciate anyway). This is a much bigger deal for importers than any pricing issue.
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  #24  
Old 05-12-2005, 09:32 AM
mbforme mbforme is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shabbaman
It's a Wagon. Nobody will care or notice (outside of the .001% of the population that happens to be in the CCA ).
That's the great thing of a wagon... it's like having an IWC watch, most people won't notice, but it's that .001% that notice that will make your day!
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  #25  
Old 05-12-2005, 10:15 AM
shabbaman shabbaman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbforme
That's the great thing of a wagon... it's like having an IWC watch, most people won't notice, but it's that .001% that notice that will make your day!

I hope you will be very happy with your wagon
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