0-60MPH In 5.4 Seconds for the 2013 Cadillac ATS - Matches F30 335i Time

by Tim Jones on June 29, 2012, 11:50 am
2012 Cadillac ATS 0-60 times match BMW

The 2013 Cadillac ATS is the hot new sports sedan that GM has specifically stated will be a BMW killer. The ATS and it's flat out challenge to the BMW has been meet with excitement and skepticism. The big brother to the ATS, the CTS-V has been stacked up against the BMW M5 (Road & Track M5 vs CTS-V) on more then one occasion.

The first production Cadillac ATS are out and we're getting performance figures that should put all the arguing to an end, or start up a new round of heated discussion between Cadillac and BMW enthusiasts.


Quote:
Base models of the Cadillac ATS come with a direct-injected, 202-horsepower in-line four that returns a GM-estimated 22 mpg city and 32 mpg highway. The run from 0-60 takes 7.5 seconds, which is slower than the Mercedes C250 Luxury (6.9 seconds) and the Audi A4 Premium (6.3 seconds.).

the 2.0L Turbo Performance ATS, which comes packing a 272-horsepower takes the ATS from 0-60 mph in 5.7 seconds, which is 0.2 seconds quicker than a BMW 3281 2.0L Turbo. In this case, though, the fuel economy nod goes to the BMW, which delivers fuel economy of 23 mpg city and 33 mpg highway, one mpg better in each category than Cadillac projects the ATS will return.

Opt for the 3.6L Premium variant of the ATS, and you’ll get a 3.6-liter V-6 engine good for 321 horsepower, enough to propel the fastest ATS from 0-60 mph in just 5.4 seconds. That’s the same time put up by the BMW 335i, which comes with a 300-horsepower turbocharged in-line six engine.
The two engine variants that closely match BMW's N20 turbo 4 cylinder and N55 turbo 6 cylinder the Cadillac matches or beats the F30 3 Series. Would you consider trading in your bimmer for a caddy?

Thanks to Motorauthority for the information.


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54 responses to 0-60MPH In 5.4 Seconds for the 2013 Cadillac ATS - Matches F30 335i Time

brkf commented:
June 29, 2012, 11:37 pm

In the end it won't be the 0-60 times that will win the sales race.
AutoUnion commented:
June 30, 2012, 11:14 am

I wish Cadillac all the luck, but merely matching BMW isn't going to cut it. The S4 is already a good deal faster than the 335i.
alep1985 commented:
June 30, 2012, 8:59 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
I wish Cadillac all the luck, but merely matching BMW isn't going to cut it. The S4 is already a good deal faster than the 335i.
The S4 is also a good deal more expensive to start than either the ATS 3.6 or the 335i.

If it matches the performance of the 335i and comes with more amenities/better interior materials, I expect this to do quite well. Besides, more competition in the segment will keep BMW from just resting on their laurels. Competition never hurts us as consumers!
wyb commented:
July 3, 2012, 8:35 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by alep1985 View Post
The S4 is also a good deal more expensive to start than either the ATS 3.6 or the 335i.

If it matches the performance of the 335i and comes with more amenities/better interior materials, I expect this to do quite well. Besides, more competition in the segment will keep BMW from just resting on their laurels. Competition never hurts us as consumers!
+1 - the manufacturers vying for consumer dollars is good for the consumer - more standard features I as a minimum I hope. Quite honestly, I am amazed at some of the standard offerings by other manufacturers these days - it leaves me looking at the BMW offerings and wondering why we get hit so hard for things like comfort-access...
WillInDenver commented:
July 3, 2012, 8:38 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by alep1985 View Post
The S4 is also a good deal more expensive to start than either the ATS 3.6 or the 335i.

If it matches the performance of the 335i and comes with more amenities/better interior materials, I expect this to do quite well. Besides, more competition in the segment will keep BMW from just resting on their laurels. Competition never hurts us as consumers!
Recently I've been finding the S4 to be a little cheaper than the 335 xDrive when similarly optioned. Setting aside BMW's vastly superior lease program.
mdsbuc commented:
July 3, 2012, 8:54 am

I'm really glad to see that American Auto Manufacturers are "back in the game." One thing I can say about Cadillac, based on my experience with the CTS, is that many options that run the bill up on a bimmer, come standard with the Caddy.
Turbo_525 commented:
July 3, 2012, 11:01 am

The competetion is good, keeps everyone on thier toes.
But in the end, it's about much more than just performance numbers.
brkf commented:
July 3, 2012, 11:14 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsbuc View Post
I'm really glad to see that American Auto Manufacturers are "back in the game." One thing I can say about Cadillac, based on my experience with the CTS, is that many options that run the bill up on a bimmer, come standard with the Caddy.
Yep, the turbo model with the special shocks, navi, hud, manual will be about 44k. That's loaded compared to a 3 which with the same stuff will run over 50k easy.
BMW 3-SERIES commented:
July 8, 2012, 7:07 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
Recently I've been finding the S4 to be a little cheaper than the 335 xDrive when similarly optioned. Setting aside BMW's vastly superior lease program.
You wont be finding the S4 to be cheaper for repairs. Volkswagen and the higher-priced Volkswagen (Audi) is found dead last on ConsumerReports & JDPower reliability list. BMW and Benz were actually rated higher than GM. And so what about this Chevrolet Cruze with leather? Ugly. Dash will still be made of recycled McDonalds food trays.
AutoUnion commented:
July 8, 2012, 1:42 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW 3-SERIES View Post
You wont be finding the S4 to be cheaper for repairs. Volkswagen and the higher-priced Volkswagen (Audi) is found dead last on ConsumerReports & JDPower reliability list. BMW and Benz were actually rated higher than GM. And so what about this Chevrolet Cruze with leather? Ugly. Dash will still be made of recycled McDonalds food trays.
What a load of crap.

On JDPower, guess which German luxury maker is last? BMW, not Audi. VW isn't dead last on any list. That would be Land Rover, MINI (a BMW company), or Fiat depending on where you look and when.
mdsbuc commented:
July 8, 2012, 2:16 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW 3-SERIES View Post
You wont be finding the S4 to be cheaper for repairs. Volkswagen and the higher-priced Volkswagen (Audi) is found dead last on ConsumerReports & JDPower reliability list. BMW and Benz were actually rated higher than GM. And so what about this Chevrolet Cruze with leather? Ugly. Dash will still be made of recycled McDonalds food trays.
And even more crap. The ATS is no Cruze. It's been built from the ground up to compete in the class.
brkf commented:
July 9, 2012, 10:52 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
What a load of crap.

On JDPower, guess which German luxury maker is last? BMW, not Audi. VW isn't dead last on any list. That would be Land Rover, MINI (a BMW company), or Fiat depending on where you look and when.

Initial Quality, Audi is below average and VW is at the bottom:

http://autos.jdpower.com/content/pre...lity-study.htm

VW sells at least 28 times more cars than Mini (8.1 million v. 285k in 2011). So with VW at 124 problems per 100 cars, you're talking significant quality control issues for one of the world's largest manufacturers.

BMW doesn't own Land Rover and hasn't since 2000.
Cactus commented:
July 9, 2012, 8:39 pm

The ATS sounds like an interesting car! If the engineers can get the suspension tuning right, it may just give the 3 a run for it's money.
WillInDenver commented:
July 10, 2012, 1:27 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW 3-SERIES View Post
You wont be finding the S4 to be cheaper for repairs. Volkswagen and the higher-priced Volkswagen (Audi) is found dead last on ConsumerReports & JDPower reliability list. BMW and Benz were actually rated higher than GM. And so what about this Chevrolet Cruze with leather? Ugly. Dash will still be made of recycled McDonalds food trays.
I agree that Audis are more expensive to maintain. I've owned two.

I don't agree that Audis are badge engineered VWs, as you imply. Although there is definitely parts sharing happening, I believe that every Audi except possibly the A3 is a completely individual design not represented in the VW lineup.
valeram commented:
August 27, 2012, 11:45 am

In the end it will come down to brand loyalty but with a better pricing due to competitions.
alep1985 commented:
August 27, 2012, 12:52 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW 3-SERIES View Post
You wont be finding the S4 to be cheaper for repairs. Volkswagen and the higher-priced Volkswagen (Audi) is found dead last on ConsumerReports & JDPower reliability list. BMW and Benz were actually rated higher than GM. And so what about this Chevrolet Cruze with leather? Ugly. Dash will still be made of recycled McDonalds food trays.
Please do some research on the ATS before spouting off elitist garbage.

False statement #1:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW 3-SERIES View Post
BMW and Benz were actually rated higher than GM.
FALSE. Cadillac is 4th in Initial Quality for 2012 according to J.D. Power, just behind Lexus, Jaguar, and Porsche (kind of surprised to see Jaguar that high, though). BMW and Benz are ahead of Chevy (though Chevy's still ahead of the industry average), but Chevy is not GM as a whole, so don't lump them together.

False statement #2:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW 3-SERIES View Post
And so what about this Chevrolet Cruze with leather? Ugly. Dash will still be made of recycled McDonalds food trays.
It's your opinion on the interior, but I don't think you can get much more spartan, bland, and plasticky than the base 3-series. I'm all for German simplicity of design, but the new F30 has a rather cheap interior unless you spec it out with one of the lines that are available.
As for they Chevy Cruze comment, this really shows how little you know about the ATS. Not only is it on a totally new RWD/AWD platform (that the 2014 camaro and CTS will probably get, too), it's actually lighter than the F30. Sorry to bust your bubble, but Car and Driver already said they thought the design of the exterior and interior were nicer than the 3-series, and the driving dynamics were so good that they'd need to test them head-to-head later on to make a final decision.

I love both the F30 and ATS, honestly. I've seen both in person, and they each have their pluses in my eyes. If I were leasing, I'd probably do a 3-series, as no one can beat their leasing program. If I were buying, it'd be a tossup. I'm at least willing to give them consideration since I'm considering buying in the next 1-2 years, as I'm sure the long-term costs of repairing one out-of-warranty would be WAY cheaper than any German car.

/rant.
WillInDenver commented:
August 27, 2012, 10:28 pm

Audi isn't "dead last" on any JD Power survey I've read, either. Usually somewhere on the low end of average.
bluzplayer commented:
August 28, 2012, 12:24 pm

I would never buy a Caddy. American cars are in a perpetual race to see who can make the biggest front grille and badge. Caddy does really well with that, but watch it, the GM trucks are gaining on the Caddy for 'big face' bragging rights. Seriously, I have not seen an appealing American car in decades. I'll take my 07 760Li and it's quirky personality over a car that reminds me of a rapper that still can't find a big enough necklace to wear...
alep1985 commented:
August 28, 2012, 1:26 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluzplayer View Post
I would never buy a Caddy. American cars are in a perpetual race to see who can make the biggest front grille and badge. Caddy does really well with that, but watch it, the GM trucks are gaining on the Caddy for 'big face' bragging rights. Seriously, I have not seen an appealing American car in decades. I'll take my 07 760Li and it's quirky personality over a car that reminds me of a rapper that still can't find a big enough necklace to wear...
You've obviously never seen or ridden in a CTS-V, then.

That being said, America has not produced a true full-size flagship sedan like your 7 series in decades. I think we're several years out from that, and it'll take years before they're on par with the Germans in that category. The new 7 series has gotten pretty horrible reviews, though, the A8 spanks it in nearly every category.

I would not compare the ATS or CTS to what rappers rap about (the Escalade). Besides, a lot of German cars (Mercedes G-Class, Mercedes SLS, Audi R8's) show up just as much in hip-hop culture as American luxury SUV's.
theckj commented:
September 21, 2012, 3:30 pm

What else commonly happens on a Cadillac in 5.4 seconds:

The door handle breaks off
The lumbar support gets stuck
The windshield wipers go the wrong direction
The radio is stuck in AM

Besides the persistenly horrible interiors, it's always the stupid stuff that breaks on a GM.
WillInDenver commented:
September 21, 2012, 3:52 pm

Even if the ATS is a killer car, I think they misjudge their market with the styling, interior and exterior. It's too garish, and I don't think a lot of people driving 3ers, A4s, and C-class cars will like it.

Same with the CTS - it's a nice car by all accounts, but I don't think Cadillac is selling them to German car drivers as much as to Cadillac people.
alep85 commented:
September 21, 2012, 4:31 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by theckj View Post
What else commonly happens on a Cadillac in 5.4 seconds:

The door handle breaks off
The lumbar support gets stuck
The windshield wipers go the wrong direction
The radio is stuck in AM

Besides the persistenly horrible interiors, it's always the stupid stuff that breaks on a GM.
Seriously? If anything, it's the Germans that are questionable on reliability these days. All you have to do is look at a 335i (HPFP issues, electronic issues galore) or an Audi A4 (oil leaks, transmission/suspension issues) and see they're not exactly bulletproof vehicles. So much for "German engineering".

If you haven't been inside an ATS interior, go check one out. I saw one the other day, and I've driven both the E90 and F30. It'll floor you how much nicer the base ATS interior is compared to a base 3 series. The F30's base trim is almost pathetic; you have to add $5000 worth of options before it even begins to look like a luxury car inside.
WillInDenver commented:
September 21, 2012, 5:07 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by alep85 View Post
The F30's base trim is almost pathetic; you have to add $5000 worth of options before it even begins to look like a luxury car inside.
What options do you add to an F30 that change the quality of the interior materials?
MMME30W commented:
September 21, 2012, 5:13 pm

Caddy?

NO thanks.

I'm not 70.
alep85 commented:
September 21, 2012, 5:14 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
What options do you add to an F30 that change the quality of the interior materials?
You're kidding, right? The base F30 interior looks terrible (particularly in beige with the black dash.....just awful).

-First off, the aluminum that's on the base model F30 isn't even real aluminum....it's some kind of composite plastic junk. To me, this crappy plastic trim is a major downgrade from the wood trim on the E90. So either you spend $500 for the wood trim, or you buy one of the "lines" for a few grand.

-I don't mind that BMW's don't have leather standard, but at the prices they're asking, it's a little absurd that they don't. If Audi can do it in the A4, I don't understand why it's so hard for BMW to offer leather standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMME30W View Post
Caddy?

NO thanks.

I'm not 70.
Well, that's your loss, and a very dated viewpoint (would've been true 4-5 years ago). I love BMW's, but I'm not so jaded to think that Cadillac/Infiniti/etc. can make a car just as good. Besides, it's good that companies like Caddy are stepping up to the plate and taking on the 3 series....it makes BMW work that much harder to produce a great sports sedan.
MMME30W commented:
September 21, 2012, 5:21 pm

^^^ It's ok, I guess I'll have to just keep driving my M3 for a while.

MMME30W commented:
September 21, 2012, 5:25 pm

Oh, and good luck finding a ATS 3.6l v6 w a 6 speed.

Oh yeah, that's right, not available.
alep85 commented:
September 21, 2012, 5:29 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMME30W View Post
Oh, and good luck finding a ATS 3.6l v6 w a 6 speed.

Oh yeah, that's right, not available.
Meh, I'm not really interested in the 3.6, so I could care less. I'm more interested in the 2.0 turbo, anyways. The 3.6 really doesn't have that much better track times than the 2.0, similar to the 335i vs. the 328i.

Of course, I'd take the M3 over all of them, if money weren't an issue The CTS-V is an awesome track car with the magnetic suspension (a friend has a 2010 V and it's incredible), but the interior is getting dated.
WillInDenver commented:
September 21, 2012, 5:30 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by alep85 View Post
So either you spend $500 for the wood trim, or you buy one of the "lines" for a few grand.
Are you sure the Dark Burl Walnut trim is a cost option? I just went out to BMWUSA.com, and adding it did not appear to change the price of the car. No line, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alep85 View Post
I don't mind that BMW's don't have leather standard, but at the prices they're asking, it's a little absurd that they don't. If Audi can do it in the A4, I don't understand why it's so hard for BMW to offer leather standard.
Ah, I did forget about the leather thing. I'd probably never consider a BMW so "base" as to not include it, but technically you have a point. Although everyone I've talked to who has ordered a car with the vinyl has said that it's essentially indistinguishable from the BMW leather.
alep85 commented:
September 21, 2012, 5:33 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
Are you sure the Dark Burl Walnut trim is a cost option? I just went out to BMWUSA.com, and adding it did not appear to change the price of the car. No line, either.

Ah, I did forget about the leather thing. I'd probably never consider a BMW so "base" as to not include it, but technically you have a point. Although everyone I've talked to who has ordered a car with the vinyl has said that it's essentially indistinguishable from the BMW leather.
$500 bucks, check out the screenshot.

I do think BMW's leatherette isn't bad (and sometimes holds up better than regular leather). But I still think it should be real leather if they're charging $36,500 to start for a 328i.
MMME30W commented:
September 21, 2012, 5:40 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by alep85 View Post
Meh, I'm not really interested in the 3.6, so I could care less. I'm more interested in the 2.0 turbo, anyways. The 3.6 really doesn't have that much better track times than the 2.0, similar to the 335i vs. the 328i.

Of course, I'd take the M3 over all of them, if money weren't an issue The CTS-V is an awesome track car with the magnetic suspension (a friend has a 2010 V and it's incredible), but the interior is getting dated.
Good call.

Now, the cts v, different animal.

Mrs. MMME30W wants one in the wagon version. In red.
ProRail commented:
September 22, 2012, 12:06 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by tim330i View Post
2012 Cadillac ATS 0-60 times match BMW

The 2013 Cadillac ATS is the hot new sports sedan that GM has specifically stated will be a BMW killer. The ATS and it's flat out challenge to the BMW has been meet with excitement and skepticism. The big brother to the ATS, the CTS-V has been stacked up against the BMW M5 (Road & Track M5 vs CTS-V) on more then one occasion.

The first production Cadillac ATS are out and we're getting performance figures that should put all the arguing to an end, or start up a new round of heated discussion between Cadillac and BMW enthusiasts.




The two engine variants that closely match BMW's N20 turbo 4 cylinder and N55 turbo 6 cylinder the Cadillac matches or beats the F30 3 Series. Would you consider trading in your bimmer for a caddy?

Thanks to Motorauthority for the information.
0-60 is the most useless statistic ever. What would be useful is 40-80. THAT would be good to know.
wyb commented:
September 22, 2012, 6:06 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProRail View Post
0-60 is the most useless statistic ever. What would be useful is 40-80. THAT would be good to know.
agreed - most US BMWs do well in that area!
mdsbuc commented:
September 22, 2012, 8:53 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
Even if the ATS is a killer car, I think they misjudge their market with the styling, interior and exterior. It's too garish, and I don't think a lot of people driving 3ers, A4s, and C-class cars will like it.

Same with the CTS - it's a nice car by all accounts, but I don't think Cadillac is selling them to German car drivers as much as to Cadillac people.
Although the Cadillac forums don't get the traffic you'll find on bimmerfest, you might be surprised at how many converts there are there. This is seen especially on the CTS boards where former E60 owners, like myself, were very disappointed in the barge that the F10 replacement had become.

.
Michael Schott commented:
September 26, 2012, 2:47 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by alep85 View Post
You're kidding, right? The base F30 interior looks terrible (particularly in beige with the black dash.....just awful).

-First off, the aluminum that's on the base model F30 isn't even real aluminum....it's some kind of composite plastic junk. To me, this crappy plastic trim is a major downgrade from the wood trim on the E90. So either you spend $500 for the wood trim, or you buy one of the "lines" for a few grand.

-I don't mind that BMW's don't have leather standard, but at the prices they're asking, it's a little absurd that they don't. If Audi can do it in the A4, I don't understand why it's so hard for BMW to offer leather standard.



Well, that's your loss, and a very dated viewpoint (would've been true 4-5 years ago). I love BMW's, but I'm not so jaded to think that Cadillac/Infiniti/etc. can make a car just as good. Besides, it's good that companies like Caddy are stepping up to the plate and taking on the 3 series....it makes BMW work that much harder to produce a great sports sedan.
You should check out the options pricing on the ATS before calling out BMW. The base car with the 2.0T has leatherette and leather is not even an option. You have to move up to the 2.0 Luxury package to get leather and this starts at $40,300.00. The Performance version has leather and starts at $42,800. There's a nice credit if you opt for the MT. Think 328i Sportine with leather, Xenons and some lane sensors but no nav or HUD.
MikeTerp commented:
September 27, 2012, 4:04 pm

Well, I think all of us Bimmerphiles would be nuts to dismiss the ATS. I've seen it and sat in it (3.6L Premium) and the interior is nice, if a little tighter than the F30. Styling will always be subjective, so call that a wash. By early accounts, performance seems to be close. In my opinion, the F30 still has the edge (mpg, 8 speed auto, etc), but the ATS is one hell of a good first effort, and there will definitely be people who cross shop the marques and go for the Cadillac. Just like the A4 and G37 draw some buyers, the ATS will too, especially those looking for a comparable car that is "American". Unless the auto mags absolutely trash the ATS in comparisons (which seems unlikely), then Cadillac will go from nothing to a notable player in one jump.
WillInDenver commented:
September 27, 2012, 4:27 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeTerp View Post
Just like the A4 and G37 draw some buyers
Off topic...but something makes me think Infiniti is about to do something extremely cool with the G.
AutoUnion commented:
September 27, 2012, 6:21 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
Off topic...but something makes me think Infiniti is about to do something extremely cool with the G.
Doubtful. Only reason why the G sells is because you can lease one for how much a meal costs at Five Guys. They are as cheap as Accords to lease.
wyb commented:
September 27, 2012, 6:58 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsbuc View Post
Although the Cadillac forums don't get the traffic you'll find on bimmerfest, you might be surprised at how many converts there are there. This is seen especially on the CTS boards where former E60 owners, like myself, were very disappointed in the barge that the F10 replacement had become.

.
I'll be looking at it closer in a couple of years - no way I'm going with the new 5 having driven one - it was gutless in anything other than Sport+ mode I thought.. nicely appointed, but I got back into my E60 and within a couple of minutes I knew I wasn't imagining it - the E60 535i was just a much more "fun" car to drive... at least in my opinion.
mdsbuc commented:
September 27, 2012, 9:29 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyb View Post
I'll be looking at it closer in a couple of years - no way I'm going with the new 5 having driven one - it was gutless in anything other than Sport+ mode I thought.. nicely appointed, but I got back into my E60 and within a couple of minutes I knew I wasn't imagining it - the E60 535i was just a much more "fun" car to drive... at least in my opinion.
At the time when I wanted to replace the E60, the E90 was too small, too cramped in the back seat, limited in trunk space, too plain in the interior, and to me, just plain ugly. The F30 has answered all those complaints for me. I'm looking forward to a new 3er next April.

.
WillInDenver commented:
September 28, 2012, 12:11 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Doubtful. Only reason why the G sells is because you can lease one for how much a meal costs at Five Guys. They are as cheap as Accords to lease.
That would be an interesting argument if it were true.
Michael Schott commented:
October 1, 2012, 4:55 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Doubtful. Only reason why the G sells is because you can lease one for how much a meal costs at Five Guys. They are as cheap as Accords to lease.
I think he's referring to the next generation G series. No doubt it should be a much improved car and is overdue for a complete facelift.
NBG110 commented:
October 5, 2012, 11:19 pm

In the end the resale value of a cadillac is crap.....bimmers hold their value
eazy commented:
October 6, 2012, 7:09 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by NBG110 View Post
In the end the resale value of a cadillac is crap.....bimmers hold their value
Depends which Cadillac CTS can hold there own
cwinter commented:
October 8, 2012, 5:43 pm

I wish Cadillac would run less silly commercials for this car. Everything else I've read so far indicates this is a legitimate contender in this segment, so great. The CTS was not a car that interested me when I bought my 3, but if I were to buy today, I'd give the ATS at least a whirl.
Q. Senna commented:
November 3, 2012, 10:43 am

(3.6L vs 335i)

People say that Cadillac's have more standard toys, yet the Cadi doesn't offer Xenons, Rain-Sensing wipers, 18" alloys and a power moonroof as standard. The ATS doesn't offer 19" Alloys, a parking assistant, active cruise control with stop & go, power rear sunshade, manual rear-window sunshades (which if you have children are AMAZING), a hands free trunk, heated rear seats, speed limit information, variable sport steering, automatic high beams, side view cameras, top view cameras, a 12gig music register, a real-time HP/lb.ft display, 3 more cu.ft trunk space, more cabin room all around, more speakers, a bigger display, a much better premium audio option, a better corrosion warranty, a better standard vehicle warranty and higher maintenance intervals (7.5k vs 15k). It isn't as fuel efficient, has less engine technology, less gears and is less fun to drive (personally). Cadillac has gone to great lengths to make sure they copied as many things as possible that the BMW does to try and make their car as good as a 3 Series, but all that means is that they're still trying to catch up. We have 20+ years of being the best in class along with 58 IEotY awards in the past 14 years and I don't see that stopping any time soon.

/end rant
Dave 330i commented:
November 3, 2012, 12:51 pm

You would justifying buying a BMW even if it finish last, right? There are intrinsic values in a BMW vs a Caddy. What is more important to you?

Would you rather visit the factory, BMW 335i Munich, Germany or Caddy ATS: Lansing, Michigan
Would you rather go to BMW Museum, Munich, Germany or Cadillac in Warren, MI?
Would you want to join the BMW club or Cadilliac club?
How about the tagline "The Ultimate Driving Machine" or "Mark of Leadership"

I can go on and on. BMW has a history of building driving machines. If you like it, why switch to Caddy that symbolizes and builds a car for your grandpa?
WillInDenver commented:
November 3, 2012, 1:07 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave 330i View Post
why switch to Caddy that symbolizes and builds a car for your grandpa?
This is the main problem for GM, and i don't think the perception will go away in our lifetimes. Say what you want; the cars are great but the Cadillac brand is a liability against what they are trying to do right now.

IMO, they should have introduced a new brand (like Lexus 20 years ago) and made that their new luxury performance line.
cwsqbm commented:
November 3, 2012, 1:54 pm

The reason Toyota spawned the Lexus brand was so that the high end luxury cars didn't have to share a showroom with Corollas and pickup trucks. Cadillac is already separate from Chevrolet, so there's no need for a new brand name. Time will take care of perceptions, as long as they keep building quality cars. BMWs current reputation with the non-enthusiast started with the yuppies and E30, and then moved up the chain as the aging yuppies bought bigger and more expensive models - first the E34 and E39, then on to the E60. The CTS is already a good car, and if the ATS sells well, eventually people will be ready for an top end model.
WillInDenver commented:
November 3, 2012, 2:12 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwsqbm View Post
The reason Toyota spawned the Lexus brand was so that the high end luxury cars didn't have to share a showroom with Corollas and pickup trucks. Cadillac is already separate from Chevrolet, so there's no need for a new brand name. Time will take care of perceptions, as long as they keep building quality cars. BMWs current reputation with the non-enthusiast started with the yuppies and E30, and then moved up the chain as the aging yuppies bought bigger and more expensive models - first the E34 and E39, then on to the E60. The CTS is already a good car, and if the ATS sells well, eventually people will be ready for an top end model.
Maybe. As I see it, the modern auto industry won't give Cadillac the time it will need to turn that corner. Or, more probably, it just won't be as successful as it might have been. It's clear the cars are excellent. There are just a lot of people who won't consider them because they are Cadillacs. I'm one of those people. I'm sure it's my loss.
cwsqbm commented:
November 3, 2012, 3:43 pm

Cadillac has already turned the corner, and your taxes have helped give it the extra time it needed. As for those that don't like the brand, haters exist for all brands. People tend to overestimate the size of a group when they're a member.
WillInDenver commented:
November 3, 2012, 7:28 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwsqbm View Post
Cadillac has already turned the corner, and your taxes have helped give it the extra time it needed.
That's not at all what I meant.
fivepointnine commented:
November 5, 2012, 4:01 am

I personally think the cars entry price is too high. wait one year and you will be able to pick a very low mileage used one up for probably mid 20's........with the exception of the CTS-V Caddies have horrible residual value.
Chris90 commented:
November 5, 2012, 8:23 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by fivepointnine View Post
I personally think the cars entry price is too high. wait one year and you will be able to pick a very low mileage used one up for probably mid 20's........with the exception of the CTS-V Caddies have horrible residual value.
This misconception is already proven wrong in one of the many ATS threads. CTS is comparable to 5 series, although you could argue that is pretty bad.