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MotorTrend: 328i vs ATS

73K views 239 replies 26 participants last post by  justinnum1 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq__8kTTbBA#

On this episode of Head 2 Head, Motor Trend's Jonny Lieberman pits the all-new Cadillac ATS against the car it was built to compete with, the dominating BMW 328i. Jonny uses test data to illustrate how similar these two cars are and then takes them out for a true drivers test on one of his favorite California back roads.
 
#161 ·
The suspension in the ATS does sound pretty nice, but since i like in south florida it would be useless to me. Wish we had some curvy roads, when i go to CT i love driving around there in greenwich and pound ridge.
 
#162 ·
I can't think of many V6's I'm a fan of: NSX had a sweet V6, GTI had a nice V6 but that's a VR6, which I think is closer to an inline six.

Some like the Nissan V6s but not me, I think they sound like arse.

So glad BMW hasn't switched to V6s.
 
#165 · (Edited)
BTW, it was confirmed the MT reviewer misspoke. He meant to say the ATS 2.0T needed to get into the 3rd gear at the end of the 0-60 run, resulting in slower time.

Scott also said he drove the same ATS at the press event last time, did not recall the ATS shifter was that bad. The car had since added maybe 3k miles on it.

So the ATS 2.0T in the MT test is a pre-production model. I am looking forward to a review taken cars from dealer stocks. Judging by my own experience though, I think both reviews hit the nail on the head.

BMW is more refined and mature, in the customary German fashion, they hit all the engineering detail right and to precision, from weight, to power delivery, to speed, to fuel economy and more.

But the ATS is fun and refreshing, mainly due to its well tuned chassis and exhaust (for the 3.6), and also because, well it is all new. It has the usual American made flaws, but it can easily appeal to one's emotion when taken out on a twisty. And that emotional element is what defines this segment, or at least defines why many of us drive a BMW.

I am not saying the new F30 lacks emotional appeal, but the new ATS has more of it. It will be a tough call.
 
#166 · (Edited)
But the ATS is fun and refreshing, mainly due to its well tuned chassis. It has the usual American made flaws, but it can easily appeal to one's emotion when taken out on a twisty. And that emotional element is what defines this segment, or at least defines why many of us drive a BMW.
Nothing the ATS does will move the BMW 3 Series needle.

Enthusiast Buyers: At most 10% of the 3 Series population, very few will switch because the ATS doesn't do anything significantly better than a 335i Sport model and the Cadillac brand embarrasses.

Luxury Buyers: At least 90% of the 3 Series population, no one will switch because of the chasms in quality perception, age perception, sport perception, and brand perception.

The only brand that will be impacted by the ATS is Cadillac. They've just launched a smaller, cheaper car for the potential XTS or CTS customer. They'll get some Chevrolet and Buick owners too, the ATS being only $3,000 more than the top of their offerings.

GM knows this, by the way. You market a sporty Cadillac directly at BMW to make Cadillac, Buick, and Chevrolet buyers excited. So you don't lose more GM customers to the import makers. This is a defensive move, not an offensive one. If you took a few marketing classes, you'd understand this.

BJ
 
#169 · (Edited)
Over at any ATS or GM forums, there are plenty of formal and current BMW drivers who have already ordered the new ATS, or ready to do so. Of course GM can't expect to grab the majority of the 3 drivers. But if they could just grab 5% from each brand, including those moving up from the non-luxury models, and keep many GM drivers from leaving, that would be more than a success.

I do agree with you on their marketing ploy. They succeeded in getting the attention at the expense of the 3 series. If they continue to put their money where their mouth is, fine tune their engines, transmissions and CUE, they can win on the Buy American sentiment alone.

BTW, I know you do not accept this, and I agree supply shortage has some to do with the latest decline in the F30 sales, but the strength of the G and C sales has already moved the needle. Ultimately all manufactures must look at the bottom line, how many units do you push out to this crowded market each month, regardless how much the car mags like yours over the other. A 5% enthusiasts leaving your base could make or break the bean counters' pay.
 
#171 · (Edited)
No BMWs listed in the top cars that the auto writers would buy for under $100,000.

"As automotive writers, we're always asked what our favorite cars are or which cars we would buy if we had the money. To answer the latter query, Vanity Fair writer Brett Berk polled 13 scribes to see what they'd pick for under $100,000. An interesting mix of vehicles ensues. Some of the choices stretched the imaginary budget to its max while others went all bang-for-the-buck on us, but what's most surprising about the list is that more than half the cars on it are available with a manual transmission.

Of course cars like the Porsche 911, Ford Mustang and a couple of Mercedes-Benz AMG cars make the cut, but there were also a handful of choices that caught us off guard. Jonny Lieberman of Motor Trend chose the Subaru BRZ, Autoblog weekend editor Alex Nunez would love commuting in a brown Tesla Model S Performance, and Jake Fisher of Consumer Reports picked the Hyundai Veloster... non-turbo!"

Here's the full list of what these 13 auto writers would take home if given a sub-$100,000 car:
Mercedes-Benz E63 Wagon
Audi A7
Mini John Cooper Works Convertible
Porsche 911 Carrera S
Hyundai Veloster
Porsche Cayenne S Hybrid
Mercedes-Benz CLS63 AMG
Jaguar XF Supercharged
Lotus Evora
Subaru BRZ
Tesla Model S Performance
Ford Mustang Boss 302
Land Rover Range Rover Evoque
 
#180 ·
captainaudio If it was a defensive move by GM (and at this point in time any marketing move by GM is an offensive move) one could argue that BMW making the new 3 Series a less driver focused and more luxury oriented car (if that what they did - I have never driven an F30) could be viewed as a defensive move as well to avoid loosing sales to brands like Lexus.

No doubt it is. There aren't enough performance enthusiasts to make anything else worth their while.

FWIW I was at the BMW sponsored Grand Am races at Lime Rock thid weekend and BMW had a huge presence and were definitely pushing the performance aspects of their cars.

BMW still has a marketing budget to address the handful of performance enthusiasts left, it's no surprise that they'd use an event like this to push the performance aspects of their brand.

BJ
 
#194 ·
Automobile magazine writers can probably get very good deals on cars.
 
#204 · (Edited)
Knew that already, what else I missed?

Oh that list of cars the journalists picked. Here is an example why they cannot be trusted when it comes to picking a winner in this segment. The entry level luxury sedan segment is supposedly the most demanding of all, has so many entries, must meet so many demands of the drivers and their families all at the same time.

Logic says the winner(s) of this segment should be on that list. I guess we are not as important a demographic as we thought.
 
#208 ·
Let me make sure I get this straight:

For months you tell us how the ATS is coming to kick some BMW ass.

For months we tell you that no one is interested in dumping their BMW for a crappy GM with a brand-image problem.

The ATS finally arrives, a big oh-fer in two significant publications head-to-head reviews.

Someone digs up an obscure article about a dozen writers and their personal choices in cars around $100,000.

Now that the Cadillac has failed to crush the BMW 3, it's time for you to support the Ford Mustang Boss 302 and the Hyundai Veloster in your quest to tell F30 drivers that they're stupid.

I get that right?

BJ
 
#220 ·
Another major publication, another Cadillac loss. Read some comments from those who read that article:

The only thing the 328i has over the ATS is snob appeal. Look at most of the 3-Series owners; the vast majority could care less about actual performance or driving in general. Rather, they are too busy keeping up with the Jones's.

I really do hate that we as Americans were forced to bail out GM and will probably never buy a GM vehicle because of it.
For those discussing MSRP - it's meaningless. Look at 3-series sales - dominated by leases.

Compare the ATS vs. 3-series lease.

Caddy's challenge is getting people to buy an unknown new car (the ATS) for $20-30 less a month than the aggressive lease prices on a 3-series, a well-recognized and beloved model.
The problem with building a Cadillac for enthusiasts is that there aren't enough of them.

BJ
 
#225 ·
No ATS content in this post, simply a summary of the Vanity Fair article, with my own commentary.

Eddie Alterman, Editor in Chief, Car and Driver
Current Car: 1983 Mercedes-Benz 300D
Car Pick: Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG wagon ($98,950)

Brett Berk, Automotive Columnist, Vanity Fair
Current Cars: 2004 BMW 325i Sport, 1972 GMC Suburban 4x4
Car Pick: 2013 Audi A7 Prestige ($75,920)
Specifically mentions 3-series wagon would be #1 if it had been available.

Andrew Del-Colle, Associate Editor, Popular Mechanics
Current Car: None Note: (NYC resident)
Car Pick: Mini John Cooper Works Convertible ($51,723)
$52k?!?!?!?!?!

Hannah Elliott, Staff Reporter, Forbes
Current Car: My grandmother's Chelsea boots Note: (NYC resident)
Car Pick: 2013 Porsche 911 Carrera S ($99,415)

Jake Fisher, Director of Auto Testing, Consumer Reports Cars
Current Cars: Consumer Reports' test cars
Car Pick: 2013 Hyundai Veloster ($19,450)
Said he's going practical to afford dedicated track car

Justin Hyde, Senior Editor, Motoramic, the Yahoo! Autos blog
Current Car: 2010 Mazda 5
Car Pick: 2013 Porsche Cayenne S Hybrid ($98,970)

Jean Jennings, Editor in Chief, Automobile
Current Car: 2007 Chevrolet Suburban
Car Pick: Mercedes-Benz CLS63 AMG ($95,900)

Davey Johnson, Senior Online Editor, West Coast, Autoweek
Current Car: 1994 Chevy K1500 Blazer
Car Pick: Jaguar XF Supercharged ($72,225)
"In California, BMWs are like Bavarian cockroaches, so, no." Personally, I don't pay attention to what others are driving when making vehicle choices. YMMV.

Jamie Kitman, New York Bureau Chief, Automobile; Contributor, GQ, Yahoo! Autos, NPR's Car Talk
Current Cars: An assortment of 30+ vintage European vehicles
Car Pick: Lotus Evora S ($83,745)

Jonny Lieberman, Senior Features Editor, Motor Trend
Current Car: 2001 Subaru WRX Wagon
Car Pick: Subaru BRZ ($27,900)
"Most important for us writerly types, you get $90,000-plus Porsche-style handling for right around $28K."

Alex Nunez, Senior Editor, Autos, ConsumerSearch.com
Current Car: 2006 Ford Mustang GT
Car Pick: Tesla Model S Performance ($92,400-before $7,500 federal tax credit)

Sam Smith, Executive Editor, Road & Track
Current Car: 1989 BMW M3
Car Pick: 2013 Ford Mustang Boss 302 ($42,995)
Hoon. :)

Tamara Warren, Freelance Automotive Journalist, Forbes, Gotryke, Gearist
Current Cars: 1983 Dodge Diplomat, 1988 Dodge Diplomat, 1965 Dodge Coronet
Car Pick: 2013 Range Rover Evoque ($60,095)
 
#239 · (Edited)
Ode to BJ

This article was posted in the E90 section by kck7. I found it oh so fitting to this thread, and like an ode to BJ.

Such classic lines as- 'The sort of person who buys a BMW would rather be force fed Velveeta cubes than drive a Cadillac.'

Or this classic - "BMW logo, declaring that it stood for "Beauty. Money. Wealth."

Read more: [http://www.askmen.com/cars/car_tips/engines-of-change.html#ixzz28GgHPjvN

I have to admit that I was a Yuppie back in the day starting in the latter 1970s. Then my wife and I became DINKs.
 
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