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MotorTrend: 328i vs ATS

73K views 239 replies 26 participants last post by  justinnum1 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq__8kTTbBA#

On this episode of Head 2 Head, Motor Trend's Jonny Lieberman pits the all-new Cadillac ATS against the car it was built to compete with, the dominating BMW 328i. Jonny uses test data to illustrate how similar these two cars are and then takes them out for a true drivers test on one of his favorite California back roads.
 
#6 ·
yea most of us comment on this in the other ATS thread. Supposedly the MT let the Caddy down. But honestly this guy is a idiot because he tries his best to say that the MT in the BMW is also trash. Well some of us that have driven BMWs MTs for years can only laugh as his dumb ass comments. How do these guys get these jobs man?
 
#7 ·
The reality is that the vast majority of both of these cars will be equuiped with ATs. It will be interesting to see how the two cars compare when the AT versions are tested. I am nor sure what the AT in the Cadillac will be but the ZF 8 Speed in the F30 has set the bar pretty high.

CA
 
#14 ·
The concept that caddy hit the 3-series benchmark in the inception of a new model, let alone the evolution, is indicative of the competition in this segment but also the inability to sustain constant true driving-dynamic-innovation in each model cycle.

Will the ATS sell well? IDK. The BMW 3-series doesn't sell well because it's the driving pinnacle - it sells well because of cheap lease deals and the desire to obtain the image associated with a BMW 3-series. Caddy has to steal into that segment, as Infiniti's G-series has accomplished well.
 
#15 ·
I don't think Caddy cares who they steal from (Infiniti, Lexus, Audi etc).

I like the overall shape of the ATS (which is basically identical to a 3 series), but don't like the details, like the chrome.

For this reason I think the ATS-V might be a looker. It's gotta have a V8 though, a turbo V6 is just meh.
 
#16 ·
Caddy (and GM) specialize in making the finest v8's under $100k - N/A or supercharged. If they shove a 6.0 liter + in the ATS, it'll go on my list simply because large displacement RWD sport sedans with manual transmission are fairly hard to find. To wit: I drive an e39 m5 because I had to go back 10 years to find one I really liked.
 
#20 ·
Yes, Infiniti has replicated BMW's leasing model to drive sales, and with their lower MSRP they can get better deals.

I agree, the G series took 2 model cycles and a number of years of exposure to really grab hold like it is now. The ATS is walking into the scene unknown.
 
#25 · (Edited)


"I'm so grateful for the boys over at the Bimmerfest forum for creating yet another thread about the new Caddy. I'd buy one myself, but it's too small, too harsh to ride. My wife might get one, though. She just loved our little Seville back in the day. Can I order an ATS in Champagne Pink with a vinyl landau roof?"

--Grandpa DeVille

BJ
 
#48 ·
This game has become so predictable.

If you don't like the latest BMW being discussed, you are one or more of the following:

A. Can't afford the latest/greatest.
B. Just unhappy because your car got replace by a "better" and newer model.
C. Paid shill for Audi, Lexus, Porsche, etc.
D. Just a plain idiot and can't appreciate all the "improvements" for lack of knowledge and/or good taste.

I can appreciate both sides of arguments, and we are here because we are supposedly BMW, and more importantly, car "enthusiasts". Exchanging our ideas, opinions and POVs is what the forum is all about.

But, I see a bunch of bullies who want nothing but like-minded people hi-fiving and padding each other's back for singing praises of the latest BMW.
 
#54 · (Edited)
This game has become so predictable.

If you don't like the latest BMW being discussed, you are one or more of the following:

A. Can't afford the latest/greatest.
B. Just unhappy because your car got replace by a "better" and newer model.
C. Paid shill for Audi, Lexus, Porsche, etc.
D. Just a plain idiot and can't appreciate all the "improvements" for lack of knowledge and/or good taste.

I can appreciate both sides of arguments, and we are here because we are supposedly BMW, and more importantly, car "enthusiasts". Exchanging our ideas, opinions and POVs is what the forum is all about.

But, I see a bunch of bullies who want nothing but like-minded people hi-fiving and padding each other's back for singing praises of the latest BMW.
Some people are not used to others disagreeing with them, they conclude it must be something wrong with those others if they disagree.

When they realize that wasn't helping, they go to support groups. When you are used to going to support groups and pad each other's back, then you come back to the real world, get even more pissed.:)

Ok, the last part was joking.
 
#51 · (Edited)
Some background - I'm an S2000 owner. I like fun, engaging cars. But it was time to get a sedan with AT. So I went searching (and it needed to be something fun to drive.)

I drove a E90 328i last year and thought it, well, sucked. It was used, which may have had something to do with the impression, and I don't recall which options it had. Anyway it felt very cheap - a sea of interior plastic in an off-putting layout. And painfully slow, both the engine and the transmission. Nothing special in the steering department. I concluded the BMW hype was pure hype. At that point, the Audi A4 and Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart were my top choices depending on what I wanted to prioritze, but neither really caught my fancy.

Then I drove an F30 328i earlier this year - wow, what an improvement. Much more acceleration, the ZF 8AT is a huge improvement, and the interior looks great. Nicely weighted steering, well controlled handling...

So what'd I do? Well, my 2013 328i is currently on a boat on the way over from Germany... :)

Regarding the ATS - never drove the CTS because it's too big, too expensive, and never liked the interior (sat in a few at auto shows.) I might have checked out an ATS if they had been available at the time.

Edit - just wanted to add that this isn't intended to belittle anybody who perfers the E90 (heck, I prefer the AP1 S2000 when the majority of folk say the AP2 is superior. :) ) But I felt like adding in my opinion as somebody new to the BMW world, without any prior prefernces. Sorry I don't have much about the ATS to add. ;)
 
#53 ·
Some background - I'm an S2000 owner. I like fun, engaging cars. But it was time to get a sedan with AT. So I went searching (and it needed to be something fun to drive.)

I drove a E90 328i last year and thought it, well, sucked. It was used, which may have had something to do with the impression, and I don't recall which options it had. Anyway it felt very cheap - a sea of interior plastic in an off-putting layout. And painfully slow, both the engine and the transmission. Nothing special in the steering department. I concluded the BMW hype was pure hype. At that point, the Audi A4 and Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart were my top choices depending on what I wanted to prioritze, but neither really caught my fancy.

Then I drove an F30 328i earlier this year - wow, what an improvement. Much more acceleration, the ZF 8AT is a huge improvement, and the interior looks great. Nicely weighted steering, well controlled handling...

So what'd I do? Well, my 2013 328i is currently on a boat on the way over from Germany... :)

Regarding the ATS - never drove the CTS because it's too big, too expensive, and never liked the interior (sat in a few at auto shows.) I might have checked out an ATS if they had been available at the time.
No. The e90 base 328 does suck. The N52 seriously lacks power.
 
#52 ·
Wow, this is a far cry from the civility and sense of the diesel forum. I'm all for discussions on disagreements, but this is madness. Let's try to get back on topic shall we? Anyone ever take a spin in both the f30 and ATS? Impressions? I thought long and hard about getting a ATS before I got a great deal on my F30.
 
#58 ·
I admit it, I am not blown away by the 6mt in my F30. It's a bit rubbery, a bit vague, not very hard to trip it up on a FAST 2-3 shift. I would not go as far to as calling it BAD. I prefer the shifting in my E36/7, but it's very deliberate, very mechanical, might not be everyone's cup of tea.

Fact is, If my F30 order were to have gotten any more F-ed up I would have waited and driven an ATS 2.0T 6mt. Fact is, it is the most worthy 3 series competitor I have seen.
 
#67 · (Edited)
I personally do not care for the styling of the caddy inside or out. But styling is very subjective and no doubt many others prefer the looks of the caddy over the F30.

The performance/mechanicals/dynamic aspects of the ATS are anywhere from 95-105% of those of the F30. In other words, the Caddy either just comes up a little short or has just edged the BMW out. On the numbers they are almost indistinguishable. On the subjective aspects of performance some think the Bimmer is better others the Caddy.

At the end of the day the F30 is a really great car. The ATS is also a really great car. Which flavor of great car do you prefer? YMMV.

GM is going to sell a sh!t ton of these cars. Write it down. Anyone who doesn't think this is a worthy competitor needs to have their head examined. There may or may not be a new sheriff in town, but if BMW doesn't continue to step up their game there most assuredly will be soon enough.
 
#70 ·
Agree 100%

Different car magazines will post different results but in Car and Driver the AT F30 328i did 0-60 in 5.4 and the MT N52 328i 5.9 seconds. That's significant but your numbers are way off.

I don't know why you are on this tangent. I'm not at all claiming the N52 is as fast as the N20. Frankly I don't give a damn and am happy with the speed of my car.
Hmm, I had never seen an N52 crack 6 seconds. My bad!

I don't know what tangent you speak of. I am one of the few speaking level headed-ly round these parts. :bigpimp:
 
#72 ·
C&D's comparison is in:

The 2:0T ATS is probably out for me. I didn't like the sound of N20 already, but the ATS 2.0T seemed much worse.

The field is narrowing fast. Someone pick up a 3.6 auto soon.
You don't care about the ATS. You have an agenda to bend BMW's ear so they build you an E46. You admitted this earlier today.

Stop pretending, stop bumping threads, take your secret mission to the E46 or E90 forums where they'll show you some sympathy. All you're doing here is aggravating new F30 owners. We would like it to stop.

BJ
 
#82 ·
My Luxury line is tons of fun with its quick acceleration, smooth shifting, and easy steering. Yeah, I lose a little stickiness in the twisties but straight-line the F30 is an absolute blast.

BJ
That's what all of us Bimmerphiles care about, BJ - straight line acceleration
 
#86 · (Edited)
Apparently Grandpa BJ has turned into an illiterate, senile, angry, idiot who can't read, recall or comprehend the posts I've made or remember who the people are who advocated for his satire when the majority told him to go f-off. I guess maybe the majority was correct.
 
#90 ·
I have talked to people from BMW North America a number of times and have attended events where they spoke to owners and I have been given cars for extended test drives.

BMW is very aware that their image is based to a large extent on driving dynamics and being the "Ultimate Driving Machine". That is the way their core market views the 3 Series and that is the market segment that built the brand. They also realize that the "Badge Whores" are a fickle market and although BMW is perfectly willing to take their money, they realize that this is not a market segment that you can build a brand on.

BMW needs to build a 3 Series that combines good driving dynamics with a level of refinement that makes the car a pleasant daily driver. I have not driven an F30 but in stock condition my 335i was not a pleasant daily driver due to the poorly sorted out sport suspension.

The idea that a good performing car needs to have a rock hard suspension is simply not true.

Whatever manufacturer can provide a car that combines performance with refinement will dominate the segment whether it is BMW, Cadillac, Audi, Jaguar, Lexus or Infiniti,

CA
 
#91 ·
I have talked to people from BMW North America a number of times and have attended events where they spoke to owners and I have been given cars for extended test drives.

BMW is very aware that their image is based to a large extent on driving dynamics and being the "Ultimate Driving Machine". That is the way their core market views the 3 Series and that is the market segment that built the brand. They also realize that the "Badge Whores" are a fickle market and although BMW is perfectly willing to take their money, they realize that this is not a market segment that you can build a brand on.

BMW needs to build a 3 Series that combines good driving dynamics with a level of refinement that makes the car a pleasant daily driver. I have not driven an F30 but in stock condition my 335i was not a pleasant daily driver due to the poorly sorted out sport suspension.

The idea that a good performing car needs to have a rock hard suspension is simply not true.

Whatever manufacturer can provide a car that combines performance with refinement will dominate the segment whether it is BMW, Cadillac, Audi, Jaguar, Lexus or Infiniti,

CA
Good point. but I think the majority of average joe customers buy based on perception.

Currently the perception of BMW has much greater prestige than cadillac. Now, that can change but it will take a long time and certainly more than just one car model.
 
#102 ·
Caddy

My previous car was a CTS and it was one of the worst car I've ever owned. It had an unbelievable amount of problems. I was also told by a Cadillac employee the new touch screen system is still full of bugs they're trying to work out. GM always does what they have to do to look good on paper but in the real world they always under achieve. My new F30 N55 is light years ahead of my CTS
 
#103 ·
My previous car was a CTS and it was one of the worst car I've ever owned. It had an unbelievable amount of problems. I was also told by a Cadillac employee the new touch screen system is still full of bugs they're trying to work out. GM always does what they have to do to look good on paper but in the real world they always under achieve. My new F30 N55 is light years ahead of my CTS
Some posters here refuse to believe cadillac can put out a bad car.
 
#123 · (Edited)
For better sound and performance, I will consider the N20 when the BMW performance exhaust is available installed at the port of entry, and will order DHP. I have pretty much ruled out the ATS 2.0T since I don't see options available to improve the sound. Not going aftermarket route.

That leaves me with only the ATS 3.6L as a contender for "sound proof". Will want LSD option on the ATS too. And of course at that point the 335i will be in the contention, so is the S4.

For now personally there are really no other viable alternatives I can think of. I may still test drive a G37S simply because of its fantastic lease deals, but unless it really impresses me in the driving dynamics and fun department, it will not be a serious option.
 
#131 ·
I was shopping my car around the olimpics when an ad for the ATS came on . I usually fast forward past them but I watched it . My wife who drives a Lexus and does not care much about cars looked up and said You are not thinking about buying a Caddy are you. That is still the perception they will have to over come. The transmission problem will also apply to the automatic as it will be a 6 speed Vs the eight for the f30. Which will also effect gas mileage. The Caddy was also designed to be somewhat bland to sell better in China, they seem to like the understated.
Caddy is thinking long term and it is good for BMW to have some competion as my only complaint with my car was they charge too must for certain options . Also I don't tink the residual are not going to be to good on the Caddy for a while at best.
 
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