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E90 loaner... I really miss my F30

77K views 350 replies 41 participants last post by  captainaudio 
#1 · (Edited)
So, my dealership has given me an E90 loaner today as they have a laundry list of items to take care of with my F30 including fixing a stubborn squeak in the console as well as giving the car a fresh detailing and giving me a heavily discounted window tint job.

Honestly, this E90 is a "nice" car, but it flat out is not in the same league as my F30 in any way shape or form.

The suspension is rock hard but offers no more road feel than I am getting from my F30 with adaptive-m suspension. The E90 is NOISY. I never thought the F30 was particularly silent until I hopped out of my F30 and did the same drive in this car. There was enough additional background and road noise that Siri could not even understand me dictating a text to my wife... something that never happens in the F30, and this is going 20 mph down a packed side street... not even cruising on the highway.

The 3.0 I6 engine and automatic gearbox in this older 328i (I think it's a 2011 with about 6000 miles) is good, but honestly it does not hold a candle to the N20 engine with 8 speed gearbox. Not only is the newer 328i noticeably faster (even when slogging the 200 lbs of x-drive around) but the N20 gives much better fuel economy. I almost always get about 34 mpg on my morning commute, but today, with the loaner I suspect I averaged mid 20's on the same drive.

The E90 also has very firm steering. I thought that my A4 had nice sporty firm steering but the steering on the E90 is VERY firm. I'll take the nicely weighted steering on my F30 in sports mode, thanks.

The E90 interior feels simply primitive compared to the F30.... it felt like I had stepped down to a Camry or Accord and that's not trying to be harsh on the E90. It's simply spartan and/or makes the F30 seem "plush" by comparison. Thin steering wheel, harder to read gauges (what the hell, where's my HUD?), joke of a cupholder (yes on a 1 hour drive I need a coffee at 6AM, sorry die-hards), tighter cockpit, etc.

All in all, I posted this because we have seen a lot of negative comments about how the F30 has gotten "soft". There's nothing "soft" about having a highly capable sports sedan with a much updated interior and technology that is also a blast to drive.
 
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#86 ·
Comments in another thread reminded me of something else in this comparison.

The E90 stereo system (at least the base one) is simply terrible compared to the one in the F30. Now I know that most E90 fans could care less about how the stereo sounds since they have it turned off to listen to the music that the wonderful I6 engine makes, but for those of us who do long boring drives the sound system quality is of paramount importance.
 
#108 ·
Okay!

So, I got a second day with the E90 under my belt before turning it in and picking up my F30. Here are my observations.

The heavier steering starts to grow on you and is actually fairly similar to the steering in my B7 Audi.

However, the steering is unnecessarily heavy-handed at lower speeds (not just parking lot maneuvers but even just making rapid turns at 20-30 mph on side streets in the burbs).

I took the same tight sweeping left-hander today that is on my alternate return route from my work. I have taken this road many times with the F30. What I would say is that road feel (there is some bumpy pavement, etc) at 80-90 mph on this nice sweeper is VERY similar between the two cars.... WHEN the F30 is in sport mode. Certainly the stock E90 suspension and steering are much firmer than they are on a stock suspension F30.

I did not feel that the E90 provided enough additional feedback that it would warrant a claim that it is BETTER than the F30, only that it is different, and certainly might appeal to different drivers.

I filled up the E90 and observed that I had put about 180 miles on its clocks in the time I had it and had burned 8.5 gallons of fuel. Not very good milage. Doing the EXACT same type of driving, filling up my F30 I would get about 30-32 mpg and that's with a car with fewer miles. I don't know that too many people would choose one sports sedan over another solely based on mileage but it is a fact worth considering.

Also, to the comments that my loaner E90 was "stripped"... it was not. It had a moonroof, heated leather power seats, climate control, etc. Obviously it seriously suffered in the tech department as it had no i-drive, no navigation, etc. I would say that I prefer the cockpit layout and layout/accessibility of controls GREATLY on the F30 over the E90.



I picked up my F30 and they had done a great job with the detailing and window tint. They buffed off whatever cosmoline/residue was on the driver's side tail light and the car looks showroom ready again.

First stop with the new car was picking up some lunch. I chose.... shawarma (because you know, all of us who prefer F30s are middle eastern leaning terrorist-wannabes). Driving over to the lair of middle eastern food preparers I immediately noticed how CRAZY LIGHT my F30 steering was. No really, it was palpable coming from the E90. Now... here's the interesting part... I had just as readily noticed that with the E90 the steering when I started driving it felt like it was way too heavy, especially at lower speeds... but, I got used to it.

So, maybe instead of this being a right vs. wrong issue, maybe it's a preference issue, and maybe (just maybe) if someone who is antagonistic towards either setup actually drove it for a couple hundred miles they might adjust to it and, in some cases might find that the system they initially detested was GOOD, or at minimum livable.

Just a thought.

P.S. I still greatly prefer my F30 to the E90.

F30 with tinted windows at the shawarma hut;



And at the casa while I run in, gobble down that middle eastern fare and prepare to race back to the office...

 
#114 ·
....
So, maybe instead of this being a right vs. wrong issue, maybe it's a preference issue, and maybe (just maybe) if someone who is antagonistic towards either setup actually drove it for a couple hundred miles they might adjust to it and, in some cases might find that the system they initially detested was GOOD, or at minimum livable.
...
You're a dreamer.

Dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria...
 
#111 ·
What tint percentage?

On a side note, I would love them to add more finite controls over the driving profiles on the f30. Yes i know most people prefer just clicking a profile and be done, but adding some more finite profile options, like the percentage of assist from the eps, or dialing in exact amount of suspension travel, exhaust note or throttle percentages. I'm pretty sure there standard on the m3-4 but something similar as an option would be a plus. And all those seeking further tailoring of the cars driving dynamics would be satisfiying at least to me and others.
 
#112 ·
What tint percentage?

On a side note, I would love them to add more finite controls over the driving profiles on the f30. Yes i know most people prefer just clicking a profile and be done, but adding some more finite profile options, like the percentage of assist from the eps, or dialing in exact amount of suspension travel, exhaust note or throttle percentages. I'm pretty sure there standard on the m3-4 but something similar as an option would be a plus. And all those seeking further tailoring of the cars driving dynamics would be satisfiying at least to me and others.
It's tinted at whatever is just shy of the legal limit, they use the same 3M tint on all of their cars (they are one of the few dealers I've run into that does tint work in house instead of subbing it out). I got a good price and like it medium-dark so I wasn't that interested in exactly what they used.

I actually agree with you. I would like the ability to customize the drive settings even more than is currently possible. I would like comfort mode to make the throttle slightly less responsive (better fuel economy) and the suspension more oriented towards soaking up the bumps, but keep the steering in the sport setting mode.

I would expect that a lot of these niggles will be addressed over the next 2-3 model year cycles. There's a reason I leased.... I don't want to be driving the 1st iteration of a new model for 7-9 years.
 
#113 ·
Complelty agree, I think the earliest we can see this happen is either LCI, or next f- series of the 3 series
 
#116 ·
The F30 is different than the E90, but not in a bad way. I had E90 328 and 335 and after putting 7000 miles on the F30, i prefer the steering more. When i need it to be stiff i can go to sport mode, when i want a nice relaxing drive i go to eco pro. What's funny is the E90 owners coming in the F30 forum and having to voicing their displeasure with the car(most of these posters havent even driven the car yet lol).

Those that can't live with the new steering, let us all know when you get your audi, mercedes or cadillac, and how it is. Most of you guys will be driving an F30 soon anyways tho lol.
 
#136 ·
The ES350 is based on the Camry and shares a lot of parts with it but is in most ways a much more refined car than the Camry.

The ES350 is not really intended to compete with the 3 Series. The Lexus that goes against the 3 is the IS, which is a unique platform to Lexus and has no corresponding Toyota model.

The previous generation IS-F had a ride that was very harsh. Much harsher than an E9x with sport suspension.

CA
 
#123 · (Edited)
Reading some of the posts in the F30 discussion threads makes me laugh a little. I remember when the F30 wasn't released yet almost everyone was stating how much better the E90 was then the competition because of its steering, handling and balance. It didn't matter that it had "dated" interior because that was not why you bought BMW for. Most would call the A4 "soft" and posted negative comments about the turbo four. Funny how things have changed and now it is the BMW that is "soft" around the edges, comes with a four cylinder and gets terrible reviews about its steering feedback. Bottom line is that most members here would criticize the competition for exactly the same reasons the F30 is criticized by the magazines :rofl:
 
#126 ·
Reading some of the posts in the F30 discussion threads makes me laugh a little. I remember when the F30 wasn't released yet almost everyone was stating how much better the E90 was then the competition because of its steering, handling and balance. It didn't matter that it had "dated" interior because that was not why you bought BMW for. Most would call the A4 "soft" and posted negative comments about the turbo four. Funny how things have changed and now it is the BMW that is "soft" around the edges, comes with a four cylinder and gets terrible reviews about its steering feedback. Bottom line is that most members here would criticize the competition for exactly the same reasons the F30 is criticized by the magazines
I read those threads too, and I think that there was an element of surprise that wasn't expected, at least by me.

I thought the 4 cylinder engine would be awful. Dead wrong.

I thought the adjustable "modes" would just be savvy marketing. Dead wrong.

I thought the car would feel bigger. Dead wrong.

I thought the car would be slower. Dead wrong.

I thought that the car would retain it's bone-shattering too-tight suspension. Dead wrong.

I thought the Luxury/Sport/Modern lines would be distasteful. Dead wrong.

I thought the styling would be questionable. Dead wrong.

I thought the technology would still be shady BMW-style. Dead wrong.

I thought the car would cost me more than my prior one. Dead wrong.

The F30 exceeded every expectation I had. Truth be told, like many of us, I was going turn my E90 lease into an F30 lease unless they had screwed it up so badly that I was driven away. I'm loyal that way, comfortable with BMW. Not only didn't they screw it up, they made it much much better from a non-enthusiasts perspective. Couldn't be happier.

BJ
 
#145 ·
These were the same reactions I had when I started reading F30 reviews and comments, but my sarcasm was mostly directed at the engine. Rags and boards were relentless about the sewing-machine sounding four-banger in the A4, they were outraged about paying $30+K for a turbo four-banger, and on and on. But now that BMW has joined the bandwagon, turbo fours are great, their mileage is great, their light weight makes the car more agile, and on and on. It's hilarious.
 
#262 · (Edited)
There's the Genesis and the Genesis Coupe, two completely different vehicles, the Coupe is available with the 2.0T and the 3.8 V6. The 4 door Genesis is available with the 3.8 V6 and the 5.0 V8. The one you just posted is from the 5.0 V8 which is rated from Hyundai at 429 HP.
I know. I goofed earlier today. At least we all know N20 is not as underrated as others had claimed. Drinks on me. :drink:
 
#263 ·
I know. I goofed earlier today. At least we all know N20 is not as underrated as others had claimed. Drinks on me. :drink:
Thats what you get from this?

230-250whp is pretty underrated when claimed 240 crank.
 
#124 · (Edited)
This thread is hysterical. And, I say that not as a shot at the OP but as a shot at chatboard behavior. Every few months I see a thread pop up on the E90 board which essentially states "I own an E90, and I got a loaner that was configured in different way than my car, and my car is a lot better! I can't wait to get it back!" I've done it myself.

The reality is that somebody who spent $40,000+ on a car is not going to get an earlier model as a loaner and then declare the loaner to be the better vehicle. Nobody human could be that objective.

Also, we all tend to like what we are used to. I see lots of threads criticizing the seats in various loaner cars and I'm certain that is about a driver having to get used to seats different than the ones he drives every day.

All that said, I am an E90 owner who will NOT be upgrading to an F30. I had an F30 for a week as a loaner, and I thought it was a major upgrade in some ways and a major downgrade in others. I loved the power and responsiveness of the turbo engine, the overall behavior of the transmission, and I thought the suspension (even in the non-sporting modes) offered a far better ride/handling tradeoff than anything in the E90 line. I also thought the seats were wildly comfortable.

On the downsides, I find the F30 steering to be numb and it feels light and overly boosted to me. I can't begin to agree with those of you who see it as superior (or even close to being the equal of) the E90.

Also on a less positive note, there was a very significant decrement in the quality of SOME materials in the interior (IMO). The center console area, in particular, felt low rent to me.

The F30 is definitely a significant increment on many levels, but there are some real misses there as well.
 
#125 ·
This thread is hysterical. And, I say that not as a shot at the OP but as a shot at chatboard behavior. Every few months I see a thread pop up on the E90 board which essentially states "I own an E90, and I got a loaner that was configured in different way than my car, and my car is a lot better! I can't wait to get it back!" I've done it myself.

The reality is that somebody who spent $40,000+ on a car is not going to get an earlier model as a loaner and then declare the loaner to be the better vehicle. Nobody human could be that objective.
I can be pretty objective.

There were things I preferred about my E92 loaner over my F30. My loaner had a higher MSRP too.
 
#127 · (Edited)
Well, I do consider myself an enthusiast of sorts. I've driven tons of cars and I still think that the F30 retains an element of sportiness (at least in the configuration I optioned) that feeds my darker side (you know... the "cut loose when no one is around in the dead of night" side). When it comes to real "serious" performance... cars are kind of boring after riding 350 lb 180 horsepower super bikes.

Perhaps a four door 1 series will retain more of the character of the E90 that the E90 fans are feeling is lacking in the F30.

Also, I've seen critiques brought up of C&D indicating that they felt the E90 might "beat" the F30 on the track (much like they indicated that the E46 would beat both). I'd really like to see C&D put their money where their mouths are, and do a "has BMW gotten soft" story in which they put the F30/E90/E46 through the wringer, so we can find out just how "soft" the big old softie really is.
 
#128 ·
Granted, I have just had an F30 as a loaner and did not drive it particular hard. But, it felt every bit as sporty in terms of suspension dynamics as my E90. I suspect the entire "getting soft" thing relates more to the F30 having a fairly comfortable ride.

The only aspect of the F30 that is less sporty than the E90 is the steering, and that is not really a BMW issue. The entire industry is moving toward EPS.
 
#166 ·
Well, I joined the club with voip today. Dropped off my F30 for FEM replacement and I'm in a stripper E90 328i.

And when I say stripper, I mean stripper. No comfort access, no satrad, nothing. When I hit the gas to get on the interstate, I was shocked by the delay before it did anything.

Please, please, please let this repair take less than a week.:rolleyes:
 
#169 ·
Well, I joined the club with voip today. Dropped off my F30 for FEM replacement and I'm in a stripper E90 328i.

And when I say stripper, I mean stripper. No comfort access, no satrad, nothing. When I hit the gas to get on the interstate, I was shocked by the delay before it did anything.

Please, please, please let this repair take less than a week.
It's criminal that BMW thinks this is appropriate for F30 drivers.

E90 people are used to being mistreated like this; it's an outrage what they put you and VoIP through. Hang in there. This nightmare will be over soon. Just don't let your neighbors see you in that out of style mess; they'll uninvite you to the Halloween block party, make your wife cry, not worth it.

BJ
 
#176 ·
Audi choose to detune the 2.0T engine for better refinement. As someone have already mentioned, Audi have version of the 2.0T engine that is more powerful than the N20. I have driven both the Audi A4 and the F30, although the F30 is a tad bit quicker, the A4's powertrain is definitely more refined. To say the N20 is far better than the 2.0T is just not true, both engines have been on the Ward's 10 best engine list.
 
#181 ·
Here is a direct comparison:

Both cars have the same transmission. Despite the A4 being heavier and down in hp (well at least on paper) it posts nearly identical acceleration times while achieving nearly identical fuel economy. On the side note it was also a better performer in braking, steering and most importantly slalom speed while riding on a much older chassis. I don't see how the N20 is any better than the TSFI. The proof is in the pudding.
http://media.caranddriver.com/files...rt-2012-volvo-s60-t6-awd-comparison-tests.pdf
 
#184 · (Edited)
What tires are on each vehicle? The proof is in the tires. And BMW has been STUPIDLY supplying cars for these tests with the lowest performing tires they have ever put on a production vehicle. Apparently they think the car rags are going to be placing most of their scoring weight on Efficient Dynamics. :tsk:
 
#200 · (Edited)
:rofl:

Bull ****. Apr tunes audi's i dont trust their numbers at all. I found a bunch of dynos of the 2,0t

Here is the 2.0t

I even found an APR dyno,


stock numbers on dyno are 200/225

N20>A4

Good effort but try harder.
 
#201 ·
They are telling me my car is done and it only took a recoding and I can pick it up today. Frankly, I'm skeptical, but this is preferable to being in this loaner for a week. Some observations after driving the car to work:

1. I can't believe how much I miss comfort access. My wife's SUV is older and requires a key, and I find that less obnoxious than having to shove a fob into the dash for some reason.
2. The actual driving experience isn't too bad save for 2 things: hitting the gas and feeling like nothing happens for 2 seconds and how rough it handles bad road surfaces. Ugh.
3. There is a simple grace to the spartan, basic interior. However, I hate the cupholders and the window controls angled away from the driver.
4. The interior feels like a VW bug compared to the bigger F30.

Also, if the car is recoded, will I have to redo all of my electronic settings? Presets? Music Hard Drive?
 
#204 ·
I consider myself a driving enthusiast, and I have no prior history with Audi, BMW nor Hyundai/Kia. So when looking for a sedan, my impressions were:
BMW E90 - slow, sluggish, and lethargic. A very big letdown for "The Ultimate Driving Machine."
Audi A4 Quatro - engine had great low-end punch, loved the ZF 8spd, but lacked acceleration at highway speeds, and had a non-sporty feel to steering and chassis.
Kia Optima SX Turbo - felt like it had much less power than 274 hp, closer to 200 would have said, and no sport feel at all.
BMW F30 - finally a car with decent pull at all RPMs and speeds, plus a responsive chassis.

Based on my E90 drive, I was ready to write off ever owning a BMW. (My only previous drive in a BMW was a Z3 when they first came out - the 1.9L 4cyl sounded and performed about like a kazoo. Ick.) But learning that the F30 got the same 8spd from ZF as the A4 convinced me to give BMW another try, and I'm glad I did. My Sport Line should be delivered sometime next week.
 
#208 ·
yea, the N52 is weak as hell! Good thing you waited. Audi engine is crap at high speeds, and the car is to heavy with a front weight bias.
 
#213 ·
I think a comparison of the way cars come equipped is a legitmate comparison since most buyers are going to keep the car stock.

CA
 
#228 ·
Well, since there's a lot of posturing going on here (nice to know this corner of the Internet is exactly like every other corner of the Internet... :) ) I'll summarize some of the controversial numbers:

Peak dyno hp:
BMW F30 - 240 hp (Inside Line)
Cadillac ATS - 239 hp (Inside Line)
Hyundai Sonata 2.0 T - 234 hp (Inside Line)
Audi A4 - hard to find a dyno of a stock car on comparable equipment. My general impression is 200 to 210 hp or so?

Recent performance data from C&D:
0-60:
A4 - 5.6 sec
F30 - 5.6 sec

1/4:
A4 - 14.4 @ 95
F30 - 14.2 @ 98

Rolling start:
A4 - 7.2 sec
F30 - 6.5 sec

My thoughts on contributing factors to the A4's acceleration: AWD and 245 width summer tires. Such extra traction helps a lot when launching from a standstil, but as evidenced by the rolling start times doesn't help with outright acceleration once moving. Since that's what I notice most, not having ever launched an A4 or F30 for an acceleration test, the F30 certainly felt much quicker than the A4.

610ft slalom:
A4 - 44.3 mph
F30 - 42.7 mph

Certainly a win for the Audi. But it's a head-scratcher for me, since the A4 didn't feel an more sporty - but I haven't autocrossed either car. I again suspect the tires were the main factor, though - the BMW had 225 width all-season M+S. The other two cars with M+S tires had similar slalom numbers (42.8 and 42.9) and the one other summer tire car had a similar speed to the A4 (44.2.)

IIRC, the F30 I test-drove had summer tires. The one I ordered certainly does.

So in terms of feel and driving excitement - yeah, in my book the F30, with it's N20, is superior.
 
#241 ·
As some noted in this tread the major weakness for both the 328i and the 335i IMO are the tires. BMW choose to go with the smaller width for fuel efficiency. I love for one of these car magazines to do a comparison between the S4, 335i and ATS V6 but the 335i having 235s in the front and 245s in the rear summer tires.
 
#245 ·
IMO it was stupid by BMW, since it decided to go with 3 different packages not to have the sport package with the highest performance tire/wheel combo possible. For the luxury I would go with the quietest and most forgiving RTF available, for the modern I would have gone for the most fuel efficient tire. Its like you are a world class runner and you are running against other world class runners who have spikes running shoes and you have plain old snickers.
 
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