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E90 loaner... I really miss my F30

77K views 350 replies 41 participants last post by  captainaudio 
#1 · (Edited)
So, my dealership has given me an E90 loaner today as they have a laundry list of items to take care of with my F30 including fixing a stubborn squeak in the console as well as giving the car a fresh detailing and giving me a heavily discounted window tint job.

Honestly, this E90 is a "nice" car, but it flat out is not in the same league as my F30 in any way shape or form.

The suspension is rock hard but offers no more road feel than I am getting from my F30 with adaptive-m suspension. The E90 is NOISY. I never thought the F30 was particularly silent until I hopped out of my F30 and did the same drive in this car. There was enough additional background and road noise that Siri could not even understand me dictating a text to my wife... something that never happens in the F30, and this is going 20 mph down a packed side street... not even cruising on the highway.

The 3.0 I6 engine and automatic gearbox in this older 328i (I think it's a 2011 with about 6000 miles) is good, but honestly it does not hold a candle to the N20 engine with 8 speed gearbox. Not only is the newer 328i noticeably faster (even when slogging the 200 lbs of x-drive around) but the N20 gives much better fuel economy. I almost always get about 34 mpg on my morning commute, but today, with the loaner I suspect I averaged mid 20's on the same drive.

The E90 also has very firm steering. I thought that my A4 had nice sporty firm steering but the steering on the E90 is VERY firm. I'll take the nicely weighted steering on my F30 in sports mode, thanks.

The E90 interior feels simply primitive compared to the F30.... it felt like I had stepped down to a Camry or Accord and that's not trying to be harsh on the E90. It's simply spartan and/or makes the F30 seem "plush" by comparison. Thin steering wheel, harder to read gauges (what the hell, where's my HUD?), joke of a cupholder (yes on a 1 hour drive I need a coffee at 6AM, sorry die-hards), tighter cockpit, etc.

All in all, I posted this because we have seen a lot of negative comments about how the F30 has gotten "soft". There's nothing "soft" about having a highly capable sports sedan with a much updated interior and technology that is also a blast to drive.
 
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#266 ·
Thanks, Voip-Ninja for your thoughtful note. May all your MOS score be 4 or better.

I'm currently driving a 2008 335ix with 70,000 miles. In the spring, I plan to pass that car to my wife, and move to an F30 328i with XDrive. Previous to the e90, I had two A4s (1997, and 2002, which my wife is currently driving), so reading your notes has been very useful.

My one test drive of the F30 confirms that it really feels pretty darn good. Not quite the rumble of the 335, but I can get past that.

John
 
#283 · (Edited)
No manufacturer publishes wheel horsepower. To get a little bit back on track. On paper, the difference between the N20 engine and the outgoing N52 is not that much to fuss about. However in real driving it is extremely palpable, and probably even more so as I'm at 6000 feet and NA engines are knee-capped at that altitude, turbo engines fare much better, which explains their popularity in this market.
 
#285 ·
Its the tq between the two which is worth fussing about.

At the wheels, it's close to a 20% difference. You have a 30% decrease in capacity, at least a 10% improvement in consumption and the 20% increase in torque. When all those factors add up, but you lose the good sound(again, I am one of few with an exhaust and boy does that help) it's a good equation.

I am not trying to be an N20 fanboy, but those are facts.
 
#286 ·
I get the numbers, but please make a better exhaust a standard feature! Ask eisenmann Exhaust to make the oem exhaust!
 
#287 ·
Eisenmann is crazy $$$$. They want about $2k for just the muffler, no mid pipe-that's extra. It must be made from unicorn tears and titanium.

Very happy with my Rogue Engineering system even in it's prototype stage. Very nice deep sound, no drone. Not over the top.
 
#289 ·
Here's a thought. Drive the car and listen to the radio and stop obsessing over what the car muffler sounds like. Honestly, who gives a crap? In 15 years when you are driving an electric car are you going to rig up speakers, an amplifier, and synthetic exhaust sounds so that the other drivers know you mean business? :flush:

My Yamaha R1 sounded like a lawn mower.. but it did 0-60 in like 3.9 seconds. Who gives a crap about what it sounds like.

True story. I was driving over to the dealer a few days ago to drop my car off. A kid in a civic pulled up on me with his blown engine and giant fart can. Boy that fart can was impressive. I wonder if he was let-down when my car completely destroyed his 15 year old piece of crap?

:rofl:
 
#292 ·
Here's a thought. Drive the car and listen to the radio and stop obsessing over what the car muffler sounds like. Honestly, who gives a crap? In 15 years when you are driving an electric car are you going to rig up speakers, an amplifier, and synthetic exhaust sounds so that the other drivers know you mean business? :flush:
haha that's a great, however I tend to be concerned with issues that affect me in the present, not in 15 years lol!
 
#307 ·
Sounds like new 3-series is step forward from e9x.
However, I really miss being able to get just options I want. Now if seems that if I want any option, I have to add premium package, sport package, etc...

Grrrr. All I want is xenon lights and power seats!
 
#327 ·
And.... I'm back in the E90. The replacement cupholder arrived and I needed a loaner while they install it. I also asked them to look for a new noise in the passenger headliner area as well as some hissing that I've noticed on the stereo.

Still loving my F30 but the noises/gremlins are a bit annoying on a car with a $52K sticker.
 
#336 ·
And.... I'm back in the E90. The replacement cupholder arrived and I needed a loaner while they install it. I also asked them to look for a new noise in the passenger headliner area as well as some hissing that I've noticed on the stereo.

Still loving my F30 but the noises/gremlins are a bit annoying on a car with a $52K sticker.
My new Porsche 911 has 3 rattles and I hate rattles with a passion, so don't feel bad that you have/had one in your car with a $52K sticker.

Fortunately, I found the one that is coming from the center console in front of the stick shift. The other is my passenger seatbelt buckle that is missing a felt piece that my driver side has. I'm still trying to locate the other one. I figure it's better for me to try and find them instead of waiting for the dealer to tell me that they could not duplicate it (which I also really hate)!

I have been very pleased (and surprised) that my 335is vert has been rattle free. :)
 
#337 ·
Well, your vert is based on a platform that is nearing end of production so most of the common complaints have been ironed out. This is always the risk of a new platform. I will say that my 328xi is VERY silent which is why the few gremlins have stood out. The cupholder squeak was so loud it was almost comical and fortunately they quickly sorted it. Re-installation fixed that one but they wanted to replace the part anyways.

Also, saying I shouldn't complain about rattles in my $52K car because your $125K car has rattles too should not be a factor in an F30 forum... for comparison, rate your annoyance if you complain about your Porsche rattles in a Porsche forum and someone comments that you have it easy because they have rattles in their Bentley or Lambo.
 
#332 ·
When I first got the E93 it had a rattle which annoyed the crap out of me. I had previously owned a 1992 Lexus SC300 which was rattle free at 120,000 miles. I knew that the Lexus was going to be a hard act to follow but did not expect the BMW to have a rattle out of the box and was totally bummed out. After a week or so the rattle disappeared and has never returned :dunno:. The E93 is very quiet, as quiet and perhaps quieter than the Lexus was. I don't feel that it has the build quality that the Lexus did (that car felt like it had been carved our of a solid block of steel) but it is very close and now that I have replaced the RFTs and the lousy stock shocks I am very happy with the way the car drives. I took it on last weeks Northeast Fall Foliage Run and it was a pleasure driving it on the New Engand back roads we went on.

CA
 
#333 ·
Well, I just got back from picking the F30 up. Cupholder replacement installed and the annoying new rattle was (drumroll please) the passenger side seat belt latch had gotten turned around and was rattling against the door. First time for everything I guess.

I also observed that my dealer did a crummy job washing my car this time around.

Put 80 miles on the loaner E90 (different one than last time but same options) and needed to put 4 gallons of gas in before I turned it back to the dealer. 20 mpg is not so hot especially when I am averaging 30 on my F30.

Final observation. The audio system in the E90 is really lacking. Not only was the stereo a disappointment today but I found that the bluetooth speakerphone is not nearly as good as it is in the F30. I know this as I sat on a 45 minute conference call during my drive north this AM.
 
#334 ·
I know this as I sat on a 45 minute conference call during my drive north this AM.
Man, you are a generous soul. No conference calls for me if I'm driving or going through the airport. I make it very clear to people involved that I will NOT be participating and the reason why. Never had problem with it.
 
#342 ·
I read as many of the posts to this topic as possible before deciding what whether to buy a used E90 or a new F30. I hadn't registered for this site but did so to share my observations and decision since I figured some people would be interested to see how this thread and my test drives affected my purchase.

I test drove an E90 335i with the sports suspension and AT. My Porsche 997 is a stick shift so I wanted something with real back seats and an automatic transmission as traffic often sucks in So Cal.

I found the E90 to be a really nice car. Coming from the Porsche I liked the heavy steering and the slightly raw feel of the E90. It felt more like a sports car than any other 4 door sedan that I have driven (including that boat the Panamera).

I also test drove a new F30 335i M Sport with the AT. I thought it was a really nice car. The head up display was useful and the added headroom in the back was nice. The car did feel more refined than the E90 but not so much so that it felt boring or squishy like a Lexus IS or a non-AMG Benz C Class. The F30 still felt nimble and fun. I did not drive the Modern or Luxury line F30 as I would have no interest in them...

The main thing I was worried about in the F30 was the steering after all the comments I read about it. I was pleasantly surprised to find that the steering was still nice and heavy when driven in sport + mode. The dealer took me on the best route possible for where we were and there were some slightly twisty roads. The EPS didn't feel numb. I would be curious to see how it felt on very twisty back roads or on the track. It seemed perfectly fine for spirited driving on most public roads.

I agonized over whether to save a bunch of money by buying a used E90 or plop down the money for a brand new F30 M Sport or a regular one with the sports suspension. I almost went for the M Sport as it was the only way to get that cool blue color that is exclusive to the M Sport package.

It would have costed about $55,000 to get the F30 M Sport with the options I wanted. If I lived farther from work and needed the better MPG I would have done it. But I test drove a 2011 E90 M3 that cost the same and fell in love. It inhales gas but that engine note is just too good.

My advice for those who are contemplating a BMW purchase is to just go for the best car in your budget. I you have $25,000 to spend I'm sure you'll be really happy with a loaded E90 328i or a higher mileage or less optioned 335i.

If you have more to spend go for an F30 328i with the sports suspension. If you have yet more to spend get the F30 335i with all the goodies. And if fuel economy isn't a huge deal just get the E90 M3 or hold out for the F30 M3 if you're willing to pay a higher up front cost to get better MPG and the new body style.

The 3 Series is just a fun car, period. We shouldn't get caught up trying to figure out which one is best. It just depends on how much money you're willing to part with. I've had an E30, two E36, and now an E90. I feel lucky to have had such good cars in my life and hope everyone enjoys their 3s as much as I do, regardless of which model.
 
#344 ·
I think rattles are usually due to pieces rubbing against each other, especially plastic ones, and wires/harnesses and other things not being properly tied/secured. The rubbing plastic rattles sometimes disappear over time because the rubbing basically "sands" and smooths out the sharp edges that create the squeaks and certain types of rattle.

A long time ago a read and article or saw a commercial - can't remember which - that claimed Audi mounts each car on some hydraulic arm that turns the cars upside down and "shakes them", to see if some any rattles develop. I don't know how effective that is and whether they still do it, but it demonstrated to me how annoying rattles are to customers and how they affect their perception of quality.
 
#346 ·
try driving over those reflectors on the road, maybe there is a road where there are a lot of them for like a mile, that has helped me try and isolate a rattle
 
#348 ·
So, as promised I got my wife driving the F30 yesterday and low and behold I could not detect the noise.

I am suspicious that when I got into the car and re-adjusted the seat position, that might have cured it... now the question is did I cure it temporarily or permanently?

I did observe that when the car was last detailed the seat had been moved up and forward, so perhaps when it is at full extension there is a part that is rattling or resonating explaining the problem.

Or perhaps I am simply losing my mind.
 
#349 ·
It could also be that the colder temps have temporarily stopped the problem. In some past cars I've owned, I would get different rattles depending on if it was hot or cold outside.
 
#350 ·
Yes, I've had plenty of temperature related rattles in cars over the years, however the temperature has been relatively constant over the last week so I don't think that would explain it.

The good news is that I spent two hours driving the F30 today and nothing rattled obviously enough that I was bothered by it. Generally it has to be noticeable over the stereo before I start to get irritated with it.
 
#351 · (Edited)
I found that if there is something rattling in the heater outlet under the front seats the rattle can sound like it comes from the dash.

CA
 
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