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Driven Back-to-Back: 335i M-Sport vs Audi S4

81K views 158 replies 30 participants last post by  Emission 
#1 ·
Our test-driving adventures continue. My wife and I had previously driven a 328i M-Sport 6MT and a 335i Lux Line. From that drive, we preferred the 328i but also wanted to find at least a 335i in Sport Line or M-Sport to drive. We also wanted to do our due diligence and give the 2013 S4 a shot. That's exactly what we did today. Up first was the S4...

2013 Audi S4
The car we drove was equipped with the S-Tronic autobox. Sadly, not MTs or DSG cars at our local dealer. The car was driven in Dynamic and Auto modes. In terms of the drive itself, I thought the autobox was actually quite good. Not as quick as the BMW's, but really nothing that called attention to itself. Car felt tight and handled nicely. The S4 seats were very nice, about the same as the BMW's sport seats. Interior design was also pretty nice...nothing really to complain about. In fact, we thought it was nicer than the one in the A6 3.0T that we were ferried around in. That was about it for the S4. My overall impression was that it's a fast, competent car, but did nothing for me on an emotional level. Nothing that made me feel I really needed to have this car. The supercharged V6 is so quiet as to be essentially character-less. Also, I was bothered by some creaking coming from the passenger side window when going over bumps around rough city roads. I'm not a huge stickler for creaks and rattles (I own an E46 M3 for crying out loud) but this was really annoying in a brand new car that cost $59K+.

2013 335i M-Sport
We would've loved to have found a 6MT to drive, but no such luck. The good news for us was that this car was optioned exactly the same way that the 328i we drove a couple of weekends back. Only difference was in the transmissions; even the colors were the same (EBII). We got into the 335i about 15 mins after driving the S4, so the comparison was really, really obvious. The 335i just felt right-and that was before even starting the car. I guess we're just BMW people. But even accounting for that, the interior just looks and feels a notch up from the Audi's. Surprising for me, because I'd always thought very highly of Audi interiors. On paper, the S4 is faster. In real life, we felt the 335i gave nothing up to the S4. We drove the 335i in Sport mode at the request of our dealer-some customer recently drove an M5 in Sport+, lost control and totalled the car. The 335i M-Sport also came with DHP and that made it a lot more fun versus the 335i Lux that we drove before--much sharper response. The N55 also sounded much nicer to me than the V6 in the S4. The 335i also seemed way more dynamic feeling than the S4. Maybe it's the character of the twin turbos versus the supercharger? Either way, the 335i definitely got my pulse moving. Can't say the same for the S4.

Incidentally, the S4 also comes with electric steering now. Big mistake if you ask me. That car is only drivable in Dynamic-Auto and Comfort are just terribly light or terribly variable. Ugh. The steering wheel in the S4 also felt much less nice to handle versus the one in the 335i. That said, I wish the BMW could default to last user setting instead of Comfort, but I've been wishing for this for a very long time. Someday.

Apples to apples, I just can't imagine why anyone would pick the S4 over the 335i. Unless you shop for a car based only on specs, the S4 just doesn't make sense to me. It's less inspiring to drive, costs more (the one we drove came in about $1000 more than the 335i) and consumes more gas. I guess Audi is just going to suck it up until the next generation S4 comes out. My wife-whose car this or the F30 would be-declared herself a non-Audi person after these drives. Her words: "The S4 is so far off the table, it's crashed and burning on the floor, in a corner." :rofl:
 
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#13 ·
I would call it a tie. Compared to my M3, both are very, very muted and quiet. But as I mentioned, the S4 had a really annoying creak from the top of the passenger side front window every time we went over bumpy pavement. This was made especially annoying because the cabin was otherwise silent. In terms of ergonomics, I really disliked the Audi's controls for the AC and the placement of the drive modes. You need to take your eyes off the road in order to locate the drive mode buttons, which are located in the center stack. With the F30, the switch that's located next to the shifter makes so much sense, and it's large enough that you can do everything by feel and confirm your selection in the instrument cluster.
 
#12 ·
Most people who feel this way is because they got a really good deal on the BMW, purchased one, and now justifying their choice. ;) Congrats! I came from a 335 e92 and the only thing I had to get used to was the steering, moving from hydraulic to electric. Now BMW and Audi are on par and opinions will vary from driver to driver. MT prefers the Audi steering, but with any artificially weighted system, there will be annoyances that is subjective to the driver. I feel that the Supercharger is a much smoother delivery system, no lag, and power just seems to surge continuously. I haven't driven the new BMW 8 speed, but my DSG is super quick and smooth, sometimes abrupt in dynamic mode, but it is to be expected. The S4 is one generation behind, just slightly refreshed, and not a volume seller like the BMW so don't expect great lease deals or deep discount. The two cars are so similar that many will prefer the BMW because of value.
 
#17 ·
I am not sure what you test drove. The S4 comes only in two transmission configurations: 6 speed manual and 7 speed S tronic DSG. In other words, the "S tronic" on the S4 is the DSG. How did you exactly feel that the DSG was slower? :dunno:

Our test-driving adventures continue. My wife and I had previously driven a 328i M-Sport 6MT and a 335i Lux Line. From that drive, we preferred the 328i but also wanted to find at least a 335i in Sport Line or M-Sport to drive. We also wanted to do our due diligence and give the 2013 S4 a shot. That's exactly what we did today. Up first was the S4...

2013 Audi S4
The car we drove was equipped with the S-Tronic autobox. Sadly, not MTs or DSG cars at our local dealer. The car was driven in Dynamic and Auto modes. In terms of the drive itself, I thought the autobox was actually quite good. Not as quick as the BMW's, but really nothing that called attention to itself. Car felt tight and handled nicely. The S4 seats were very nice, about the same as the BMW's sport seats. Interior design was also pretty nice...nothing really to complain about. In fact, we thought it was nicer than the one in the A6 3.0T that we were ferried around in. That was about it for the S4. My overall impression was that it's a fast, competent car, but did nothing for me on an emotional level. Nothing that made me feel I really needed to have this car. The supercharged V6 is so quiet as to be essentially character-less. Also, I was bothered by some creaking coming from the passenger side window when going over bumps around rough city roads. I'm not a huge stickler for creaks and rattles (I own an E46 M3 for crying out loud) but this was really annoying in a brand new car that cost $59K+.

2013 335i M-Sport
We would've loved to have found a 6MT to drive, but no such luck. The good news for us was that this car was optioned exactly the same way that the 328i we drove a couple of weekends back. Only difference was in the transmissions; even the colors were the same (EBII). We got into the 335i about 15 mins after driving the S4, so the comparison was really, really obvious. The 335i just felt right-and that was before even starting the car. I guess we're just BMW people. But even accounting for that, the interior just looks and feels a notch up from the Audi's. Surprising for me, because I'd always thought very highly of Audi interiors. On paper, the S4 is faster. In real life, we felt the 335i gave nothing up to the S4. We drove the 335i in Sport mode at the request of our dealer-some customer recently drove an M5 in Sport+, lost control and totalled the car. The 335i M-Sport also came with DHP and that made it a lot more fun versus the 335i Lux that we drove before--much sharper response. The N55 also sounded much nicer to me than the V6 in the S4. The 335i also seemed way more dynamic feeling than the S4. Maybe it's the character of the twin turbos versus the supercharger? Either way, the 335i definitely got my pulse moving. Can't say the same for the S4.

Incidentally, the S4 also comes with electric steering now. Big mistake if you ask me. That car is only drivable in Dynamic-Auto and Comfort are just terribly light or terribly variable. Ugh. The steering wheel in the S4 also felt much less nice to handle versus the one in the 335i. That said, I wish the BMW could default to last user setting instead of Comfort, but I've been wishing for this for a very long time. Someday.

Apples to apples, I just can't imagine why anyone would pick the S4 over the 335i. Unless you shop for a car based only on specs, the S4 just doesn't make sense to me. It's less inspiring to drive, costs more (the one we drove came in about $1000 more than the 335i) and consumes more gas. I guess Audi is just going to suck it up until the next generation S4 comes out. My wife-whose car this or the F30 would be-declared herself a non-Audi person after these drives. Her words: "The S4 is so far off the table, it's crashed and burning on the floor, in a corner." :rofl:
 
#25 ·
It's hard to describe why I felt the S Tronic was slower...it just felt, well, less responsive. Maybe it's not objectively slower, but the sequence of push-throttle-and-see-what-happens just FELT slower. YMMV, of course. And this is pretty hair-splitting at this point. I didn't actually think it was "slow"-it's just that when I drove the 335, it was like "Hello!"

Part of this might just be the fact that the AWD Quattro imparts a different feel to the car. My wife simply said she likes the feeling of a RWD car better-she's more sensitive than I am in this regard and doesn't even consider the Mini Cooper S fun to drive because it doesn't have RWD (I find the Mini plenty fun.)
 
#22 ·
The S4 is clearly better on paper than the 335i in most respects, but it's also priced quite a bit higher. Not only is the MSRP higher, all else being equal, but the real-world pricing is actually worse than the MSRP difference suggests. It's kind of funny talking about "value" in cars you can easily option over $50,000, but the markup is still non-trivial.

And while the S4 has more power, it's also something like 300lbs heavier when comparing 6MT models. Even if you add xdrive to the BMW it's still about 150 pounds lighter. The S4 is also more nose-heavy by far, and again even the xdrive BMW is closer to 50/50 than the S4. Apparently the sport diff option on the S4 negates the nose-heavy feel pretty well, but again you're adding cost compared to the 335i.

With all the performance options (DSG, adaptive suspension, sport diff) I'd expect the S4 to edge the 335i on the track...but you've also pushed the sticker price into a different class at that point, and it's an open question if you're getting enough in relation to what you're paying.
 
#23 · (Edited)
It will "edge" it out, the S4 is a track monster. Ask anyone who tracks often, you always see S4s passing 335s at the track, that sport diff is an incredible piece of hardware. I owned two F30s (both 335i's), both we're plagued by the steering vibration. It is unacceptable for a car of this supposedly caliber to have an issue like this. Just watch the Head 2 Head on the F30 and S4, its clear who is not only faster in a straight line, but faster around the twisties. The S4 dethroned the 335 here (http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2010-audi-s4-vs-2009-bmw-335i-comparison-test) and that was years ago. All the car magazines continually grip about how the E90 was a better car, with the F30 being to soft. After owning TWO I can attest to this after driving the S4 recently. Keep in mind this review is coming from someone who gave BMW a chance TWICE and has purchased many of them in the past so please don't refer to me as a "troll" or any of that crap. I was excited to get my F30 this first time and even more excited the second because I figured my second one wouldn't have the issue thus it not only upsets me, but saddens me because I really love the brand.
 
#24 ·
It seems to me your main issue with the F30 is the reliability issue with the 2 you have had so far. Is this correct, I am only asking because this is a decision I am also facing but am leaning towards the 335i in pure, x drive or active hybrid form. I don't track my cars and with the power pack I should have more than enough power for every day driving
 
#26 ·
European car mags (EVO, CAR) say the same thing about even the RS4, that it lacks an emotional bond, too clinical. That's a bummer cause the Audis are awesome on paper.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Nice original review by the OP.

I too choose the 335i over the S4. I picked the 335i Sport Line (seats are terrific) - over a similarly optioned S4 that was about $6k higher - w/o the fancy rear diff. The S4 is actually a touch quicker, but they both feel way better than 300 or 333hp as claimed and have tons of torque. The paddle-shifting between the 2 cars are both very good; better than ANYTHING else I've driven. The S4 auto-blips the throttle on downshifts which is pretty cool. That super-charged V6 pulls like hell; which is very fun. I know the S4 is heavier, but it really doesn't feel like it. The moonroof has a ton of settings which is just odd for me to understand on why it's needed.

The S4 seats were crap, they're leather but not comfy at all and never fit me at 160 lbs. The exterior is so blah, and the only difference between it and the A4 is like 3 little badges. Again, it's $58k - $63k. W/O Nav or rearview camera it's around $54k.

I did get into an 08 RS4 6sp manual and it felt pretty damn sweet for a 4yr old car with 40,000 miles. I was wanting a warranty though...
 
#36 ·
You do realize that you're on a BMW forum right? I think that pretty much guarantees that most of us here are bimmer enthusiasts. And I'm just sharing thoughts on my experiences while shopping for a new car, and comparing the F30 against its closest-in-class rivals. As you've rightfully noticed, I'm not the only Bimmerfest-er who does this. If you're looking for objective reviews by non-BMW people, Bimmerfest might not be the best venue to do so.
 
#44 ·
I currently drive a Cadillac CTS Coupe. The car is very comfortable but not very sport.

I've been in the process of test driving a ton of different cars to find my next vehicle. Right now my choices are between the A4 2.0T, 328i, S4 3.0T, and 335xi. I want a manual so I cant get the 328xi.

From my experience so far:
- Audi's are terrible to lease. The S4 is $150 more than the 335xi to lease, and then the A4 is around the same price as the 335xi to lease. This is with 1k below invoice on the Audi's and ED Invoice + $750 for the BMWs.

The S4 was my favorite to drive. This will be my first Audi or BMW so I am not use to either one. My main love with the S4 was the transmission. The Audi manual just felt better compared to the BMW shifter. However, I know I will get use to the BMW one. From what I've been reading the manuals is not BMW strong point.

Sadly, I cant decide what to buy and might hold off until the end of the year. It doens't help that service from dealerships in Maryland has been so poor. Both BMW and Audi has been far worse than my experience buying my Cadillac. If I buy a BMW I will be buying it from one of the sponsors here that have been super helpfull. I wanted to do a local dealership because I wanted to trade in the Cadillac but will probably sell it myself now.
 
#57 ·
From what I've been reading the manuals is not BMW strong point.
Never heard that before some clown who tested the ATS, but BMW manuals are quite different from say a Honda manual. They don't like to be rushed, you have to be more gentle than you would with a Honda. I much prefer BMW manuals after coming from an Integra GSR and Civic EX manual. The Hondas are much shorter and easier to shift fast, but don't have that pleasurable feel of a BMW manual. And no, I'm not gay.
 
#48 ·
Interesting thread.

If you drove the 335i and 328i back-to-back on a track, you'd find the 328i is better. It is the enthusiast's 3 Series these days. ;)

I've owned a 335i, so I know all about it (yep, replaced it with an Audi - but only because the A4 was a better value). Likely getting a new 328i in four months, as the N55 doesn't deliver the driving experience of the beloved N54.

- Mike
 
#49 ·
Interesting thread.

If you drove the 335i and 328i back-to-back on a track, you'd find the 328i is better. It is the enthusiast's 3 Series these days. ;)

I've owned a 335i, so I know all about it (yep, replaced it with an Audi ***8212; but only because the A4 was a better value). Likely getting a new 328i in four months, as the N55 doesn't deliver the driving experience of the beloved N54.

- Mike
The 328 seems to be better balanced, even on public roads. The turbo 4 has spunk.
 
#50 ·
Vibrates like a mofo at idle, and not as smooth as the I6, but a very good powerplant nonetheless. Mass is so last year. ;)

- Mike
 
#51 ·
Vibrates like a mofo at idle, and not as smooth as the I6, but a very good powerplant nonetheless. Mass is so last year. ;)

- Mike
Yeah, I've seen the stick shake when the cars idling, but BMW's I6 has always been it's trademark. It's what BMW does. :) I'm sure with time, this four banger(if kept in production) will work it's way to be as smooth as the I6 is today.
 
#61 ·
This is really true! Last week just by chance had to drop someone off late at night in the countryside; that drive was so much fun on fast winding two-lane roads, better at night too because you can see a car's lights as it comes the opposite way, otherwise you can use all of the road. This really made me appreciate how strong the N20 pulls.
 
#58 ·
Nice.

I really enjoyed my time in the 328. Really wish there were roads around here where i could ut it to it's limits but its just not possible. Wish i lived in westchester, NY area during the summer months.

Looking forward to getting into the 335 and seeing how it compares to the 328.

Thanks for your input.
 
#68 ·
This is the difference between all wheel drive and rear wheel drive.

Rain/Snow + RWD = :D

Rain/Snow + AWD = :yawn:
Probably depends on the car, our WRX was a total blast in the snow - instant controllable drifting, even at 5 mph. The BMW is fun too but not nearly as controllable, since there's no LSD.
 
#82 · (Edited)
Have both. Albeit, my 335i is an xDrive coupe of 2011 vintage, it does have the perf pack.

The S4 is new....,2013 with the trick diff. Actually, it's the GFs. We live together and regularly swap rides.

I've test driven a '12 335i (RWD), too.

You aren't going to like this, but there's not one area I prefer the 335i over the S4. I love my 335i. Wouldn't trade it for a new F30.

The S4 is the better car, however.....in some areas an insignificant amount. In other areas, a very significant amount.
 
#84 ·
He's driving an E92 335i, not the new F30...

- Mike
 
#86 ·
He and his GF test drove new F30 335i and S4 back to back and both preferred the S4. The S4 typically has a much more sport-driver oriented setup since it comes stock with high performance tires, AWD, etc.

I have driven both back to back and thought, as he does, that the S4 simply feels faster and is easier to drive hard than the RWD 335i. However, I think that as an overall driving experience the F30 is more enjoyable, partially because it's a much more comfortable car to drive quickly than the S4, it's a newer quieter platform, it has better instrumentation, telematics, nav, etc.

Also, a well optioned S4 is quite expensive compared to a similar 335i.
 
#87 ·
I hope these 335's being compared to the S4 didn't have the base BMW suspension and all-weather tires.

I'd expect an S4 with the sport diff to come on top in raw performance either way, but comparing a base suspension BMW to an Audi S car is probably not a valid comparison. And isn't the F30 the first 3 series where you can get an upgraded suspension option with xDrive?
 
#88 ·
I hope these 335's being compared to the S4 didn't have the base BMW suspension and all-weather tires.

I'd expect an S4 with the sport diff to come on top in raw performance either way, but comparing a base suspension BMW to an Audi S car is probably not a valid comparison. And isn't the F30 the first 3 series where you can get an upgraded suspension option with xDrive?
I drove a 2012 Sport line 335i RWD (I'll always remember it because it was red) and it had the performance tires. The 335i had sport auto transmission.

The S4 was a 2012 as well. The S4 had the DSG transmission.

Honestly it wasn't a contest. These are both VERY capable and VERY fun to drive cars, but the S4 is much easier, in stock form with similar options to the 335i to push hard and drive well. AWD helps the car launch better and lets it blast out of corners with no drama.

Either one of these are an awesome choice and the 335i is a much better choice as an all around daily driver, since you can put it in comfort and it will be a much more pleasant ride than the S4 when doing boring stuff, like commuting.
 
#96 ·
All of the above are true and the $1000 adaptive suspension and adjustable steering rack options should honestly be no brainers... on the S4 the adaptive suspension is something like $2800.

Still, in "stock" and "similarly priced" configuration, if you are really oriented towards sport driving I would still have to give the nod to the S4.
 
#97 ·
In my limited experience cross-shopping the real-world pricing for the S4 doesn't really line up with the 335i though. I 100% agree that you're getting more performance, but you're also paying more real $$$ to get it. If you can get them at equal cost I agree the S4 is a superior buy as a performance car (though probably not a superior daily driver.)

It's funny how reasonable an option package ZDH is. Going from a G37 to G37 Sport is like $5,000. Adding the (cosmetic-only) sport package to a G37 is $2,000. The (cosmetic only) sport package on a M-B C350 is $2,500. BMW gives you adaptive dampers and sport steering on any model for $1,000.
 
#106 ·
I would only prefer the S4 if it was a "fun" "weekend" car that I could also take to track days. I think the F30 is a far better daily driver. The F30 has better tech, very good seats (I might even argue they are a touch better than the S4 seats because of the adjustable thigh bolsters and three position headrest) and is probably about 9/10 as good as the S4 for spirited driving.

In any event, I chose the BMW this go around, we'll see what Audi brings to the table next time.
 
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