320d coming to US in 2013..will I dump my Prius for it?
So I need to replace my Prius next spring and I was thinking about the soon to be released Jetta hybrid. For the past many years since I abandoned BMW (because they abandoned those of us that wanted super high mpg sooner rather than later)...I have been driving the Prius. t's a great technological car.....but a T-E-R-R-I-B-L-E driving car.
Enter the 2013 (or late 2012?) 320d allegedly coming to the US in the spring of next year. Finally, after all the complaining I did on this board many moons ago about the fuel thirsty over-powered 335d....the suits at BMWNA have finally gotten their heads out of their trunks and decided to give America the high mpg 2 liter diesel engine that Europe has enjoyed for years.
Is this car going to be the Ultimate Hybrid Killing Machine? At probably 40K reasonably equipped (just guessing on the price) it won't kill Prius sales.....but it should eat into the premium hybrid markets for Lexus. And, it should all but guarantee the demise of the 3 series hybrid at $50 grand.
The prospect of doing my 4th Euro delivery and my first at the Welt is almost too much to handle!
Enter the 2013 (or late 2012?) 320d allegedly coming to the US in the spring of next year. Finally, after all the complaining I did on this board many moons ago about the fuel thirsty over-powered 335d....the suits at BMWNA have finally gotten their heads out of their trunks and decided to give America the high mpg 2 liter diesel engine that Europe has enjoyed for years.
Is this car going to be the Ultimate Hybrid Killing Machine? At probably 40K reasonably equipped (just guessing on the price) it won't kill Prius sales.....but it should eat into the premium hybrid markets for Lexus. And, it should all but guarantee the demise of the 3 series hybrid at $50 grand.
The prospect of doing my 4th Euro delivery and my first at the Welt is almost too much to handle!
Recent BMW News
Latest Forum Discussions
- M Wheels Style?
- Steering Wheel Extender.... Is there such a thing
- Joined the BMW fraternity today
- Aftermarket exhaust
- Ok, better pic.....e92
- Loud cooling fan?
- How much lowering on Eibach Pro-Kit 2085.140?
- High Pressure Fuel Pump
- Error Code DME 2A13 DMTL Pump
- Readt to pull the trigger on a 2013 vert. Need your opinion!
October 21, 2012, 3:07 pm
WOW! Prius after BMW! You are the man. 30 minutes of driving Prius was too much for me and most I can take as auto torture. If you was able drive it for a long time, why not just pick any other car capable of high miles? In Canada 320i available which is pretty good in fuel consumption. The problem with diesel BMW here is nobody knows how to fix them. I would look into new Passat TDI, it show better fuel mileage than most common economy cars according Car and driver test.
October 21, 2012, 3:37 pm
The Passat TDI is on the table as well, but after the many years of suffering with the Prius, my driving heart might need to zoom right past VW and into the BMW. If they make the 320d too expensive...which is something BMW is very good at doing.....I might go with the Jetta Hybrid or Passat TDI.....
October 21, 2012, 3:55 pm
VW's normal electrical problems PLUS a hybrid system??? Are you crazy
How much do you drive? Is it worth it to spend the premium on the diesel (fuel and car) for better gas mileage?
October 21, 2012, 4:45 pm
If I live in CA, I would consider FRS or BRZ as well if you don't need carry staff or passengers.
October 21, 2012, 5:26 pm
How much do you drive? Is it worth it to spend the premium on the diesel (fuel and car) for better gas mileage?
Does anyone know what the MPG would be on the US spec 2 liter diesel? I know that it's going to be less than the Euro version.
October 21, 2012, 5:27 pm
The 320d will achieve better fuel economy than the Passat, has better performance, and will cost about $6k more.
Since the Jetta hybrid uses a turbo, it may require premium fuel. If you do mostly city driving than the hybrid is a good option. If you drive 50-50 or more highway than the diesel has a fuel economy advantage.
I'd drive all three and really compare how they feel before deciding.
October 21, 2012, 5:36 pm
I would say the price between the two will be over $10k.
October 21, 2012, 5:59 pm
October 21, 2012, 6:04 pm
The base 3 is $36k, the diesel wont be cheaper.
The Passat tdi starts at $24 or $26k I forget.
October 21, 2012, 6:33 pm
The VW TDI engines have not been without issues. 320d should be an interesting car. The irony is that Europeans should be driving hybrids while Americans should be driving diesels. Though the opposite is the case.
I love my 335d. It is the perfect daily driver. I get about 32 mpg in mixed driving 40 mpg cruising on the highway. As long as it is reasonably reliable and continues to fit my needs then I can't see getting rid of it anytime soon.
October 21, 2012, 6:59 pm
Isn't the 320d going to be only available in wagon form? I hope it's available in sedan also.
October 21, 2012, 7:12 pm
October 21, 2012, 7:49 pm
Diesels in the US have to be fitted with too much crap to meet emission requirements to make it worthwhile for me to consider one.
October 21, 2012, 7:55 pm
The base 3 is $36k, the diesel wont be cheaper.
The Passat tdi starts at $24 or $26k I forget.
October 21, 2012, 8:15 pm
October 21, 2012, 8:29 pm
October 21, 2012, 9:49 pm
October 21, 2012, 11:38 pm
audi a3 / golf tdis dont have it. i know some companies can engineer a nox trap and have it do a burn occasionally instead of doing the urea treatment. who knows which way bmw will go for US requirements.
October 22, 2012, 12:03 am
audi a3 / golf tdis dont have it. i know some companies can engineer a nox trap and have it do a burn occasionally instead of doing the urea treatment. who knows which way bmw will go for US requirements.
It basically comes down to weight. The 3er is heavy enough to require it. I'd have no issues running a vehicle with urea.
October 22, 2012, 12:50 am
According to this link (http://www.bmwblog.com/2012/07/13/ru...coming-to-u-s/ ) it will be a urea system to make in California compliant. 52 mpg!! I believe that's a combined figure since from other sources I see 42mpg city and 62 mpg highway from the current 320d. These are hybrid KILLING numbers....although the CO emissions are more than double a Prius but much less than a petrol 328.
October 22, 2012, 2:31 am
October 22, 2012, 2:31 am
October 22, 2012, 5:05 am
Go for the ED model. I have just bought one and it immediatly returned 68 mpg on a 100 mile drive. 2000 miles later and I took it for a tour of the Scottish Highlands - mixed roads and no motorway - and it returned 74.9 mpg which I am delighted with.
October 22, 2012, 9:12 am
October 22, 2012, 9:16 am
They haven't mentioned offering the Efficient Dynamics model over here. I'd be happy with any F30 diesel.
October 22, 2012, 9:44 am
Yes, I am quoting imperial gallons so the figures may be misleading. But the driving was on country roads and back roads so I was up and down the gearbox quite a bit. It's a completely different car in Sport mode though. It feels like the whole car is tightening up around you. Remarkable car all round.
October 22, 2012, 10:11 am
Most of us that have current diesels believe BMW was using us for a test bed population (beta site) for the SCR systems, and that the changes have been incorporated into the EU production stream for Euro IV.
The SCR catalyst takes the place of the resonator, btw. And the tank (about 5 gallons) is in the remnants of the spare tire "well".
October 22, 2012, 5:45 pm
October 22, 2012, 6:13 pm
"Both engines will be paired with the eight-speed automatic transmission to further increase fuel efficiency"
That's when I lost all interest. I believe it will be VW again when I replace my 2006 Jetta TDI. First, they bring agricultural application diesel for which a manual transmission doesn't even exist, then they smarten up and decide to bring civilized application diesel with very high mileage, but decide to NOT give us MT. Sorry, BMW, somebody else is getting that sale. I'm done with that cr*p and waiting games.
October 22, 2012, 6:44 pm
October 22, 2012, 7:46 pm
While I'm all for big power choices for BMWs....I still think BMWNA treats Americans like idiots by not offering the slow-poke high mpg diesels here. Maybe it's the CA emission requirements that drives their decisions but heck, if VW and Audi can do it..........
Anyway, I would still consider a small BMW diesel even if that meant auto transmission. Can't for the life of me figure out why on a small diesel engine they would restrict which transmission I could choose. That's almost.....scary.
October 22, 2012, 7:59 pm
Good news if true.
October 22, 2012, 8:19 pm
October 22, 2012, 9:31 pm
...Sorry, BMW, somebody else is getting that sale. I'm done with that cr*p and waiting games.
The only requirements that CA has in addition to that is for low CO2 emissions, which require smaller and more fuel-efficient cars.
October 22, 2012, 9:41 pm
I wish you guys would stop blaming California (I'm not one, but still) emissions. Please note that all 50 states have the same CO/HC/NOx emissions requirements, and all 50 states have the same (or very similar) requirements for ultra-low sulfur - 0.15 ppm. These are US EPA requirements, not CA.
The only requirements that CA has in addition to that is for low CO2 emissions, which require smaller and more fuel-efficient cars.
Is there really any evidence that BMW engines pollute more when you couple them to a manual transmission? I mean, with Steptronic you can mimic the manual's high RPMs and hence the emissions if you wanted to. Someone 'splain that to me.
October 22, 2012, 10:27 pm
Is there really any evidence that BMW engines pollute more when you couple them to a manual transmission? I mean, with Steptronic you can mimic the manual's high RPMs and hence the emissions if you wanted to. Someone 'splain that to me.
The emissions are not why BMW is planning on introducing the 320d with the auto trans- its because their market research tells them there is market support for the auto, but the manual trans demand is questionable at this time. If the 320d is well received by this market, then there is a better chance for a manual trans offering because they might determine that the ROI on the additional EPA registration costs are sufficient.
October 22, 2012, 10:30 pm
oil burners will be exchanged for many prius cars.
October 22, 2012, 10:36 pm
BMW is selling around 100K 3-series in the US. The MT % has been down-trending; I believe that it's now around 10% or so (and there are no significant other MT sales other than in Minis.) So you need to amortize the cost of certification over 10K vehicles rather than 90K vehicles. If that cost is $5M, you're talking $500 premium, rather than $55. No wonder that the AT is a no-cost option.
(I'm totally guessing at $5M BTW. It could be $1M, it could be $10M.)
October 22, 2012, 11:26 pm
How is it the M5 can have an auto and a manual?
October 22, 2012, 11:32 pm
October 23, 2012, 1:39 am
October 23, 2012, 2:32 am
October 23, 2012, 8:41 am
"Both engines will be paired with the eight-speed automatic transmission to further increase fuel efficiency"
That's when I lost all interest. I believe it will be VW again when I replace my 2006 Jetta TDI. First, they bring agricultural application diesel for which a manual transmission doesn't even exist, then they smarten up and decide to bring civilized application diesel with very high mileage, but decide to NOT give us MT. Sorry, BMW, somebody else is getting that sale. I'm done with that cr*p and waiting games.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Bimmer App
October 23, 2012, 8:46 am
If they would actually look and see how many of those 2 liter diesels are sold with MT (25-30% roughly across models) by somebody else instead of looking at numbers from "market research" then they would have done it. But, according to latest fashion, the reality is way less credible (and much less "cool") than projections properly displayed in a nice Power Point pie charts.
Sales data doesn't lie. BMW has offered manuals in quirky combinations before (E61 anyone?) and had the take rate so low that they had no choice but to abandon.
It costs $2M to $5M to certify each power plant. Sorry, why do it just to satisfy a few hundred people? Utopia is great but....
October 23, 2012, 10:09 am
Sales data doesn't lie. BMW has offered manuals in quirky combinations before (E61 anyone?) and had the take rate so low that they had no choice but to abandon.
It costs $2M to $5M to certify each power plant. Sorry, why do it just to satisfy a few hundred people? Utopia is great but....
Got too fat lately I guess..
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Bimmer App
October 23, 2012, 1:44 pm
Would you guys consider it if BMW bought the 320d over with DCT...I think that would be best of both worlds...however DCT is expensive. Have both MT and diesel to me is ideal. I can see a 320d with Auto being the base car and BMW upselling the MT by calling it the diesel 'Sport' line.
October 23, 2012, 2:09 pm
October 23, 2012, 2:37 pm
Also, the new 8 speed auto is what, 8-10% more efficient than the manual in pretty much every application? Since the 320d is a "fuel efficient" model, I can't say I'd be surprised to see only the auto offered. Hopefully they will offer manual in the 330d here.
October 23, 2012, 5:02 pm
Very exciting - I have always wished for a 330d or 320d to be shipped here. I think people would be very surprised at the mpg AND power/quiteness of the car.
October 23, 2012, 7:26 pm
Sales data doesn't lie. BMW has offered manuals in quirky combinations before (E61 anyone?) and had the take rate so low that they had no choice but to abandon.
It costs $2M to $5M to certify each power plant. Sorry, why do it just to satisfy a few hundred people? Utopia is great but....
As mentioned in another similar thread on Bimmerfest, I believe that very few customers who will go to BMW dealership in order to check/test drive/buy a 320d will be of the clueless sort that listen to the salesman and let him sell them the car. In the informed customers group quite a few will be car enthusiasts and large portion of those will want MT. Just the same as with VW diesels.
I believe BMWNA is being pigheaded in this one and doesn't want veritable numbers to mess with nicely displayed speculations - those pie charts just look too good to mess with.
October 23, 2012, 8:04 pm
Got too fat lately I guess..
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Bimmer App
If you want BMW to offer something that is not profitable you probably shouldn't be a shareholder.
October 23, 2012, 9:01 pm
There are currently, nationwide, 335(!) automatic 2009 Jetta TDIs for sale and 69 manual 2009 Jetta TDIs.
Hence, 17% of 2009 Jetta VWs are manual. I'm assuming that MT owners sell their cars at the same frequency as AUTO but wouldn't be surprised if they hold onto them just a little longer as they tend to be enthusiasts. That might mean the % is maybe more like 20% but that would be pure speculation.
Interestingly, the GOLF TDI for 2010 has about a 50/50 distribution.....28 sticks vs 26 automatics available nationwide. This is truly a stick-shift centric model!
So the 3 series would probably attract fewer stick drivers than the Jetta...maybe 10-15%
October 23, 2012, 10:04 pm
Another thing is pretty obvious to anybody who is not asleep - our federalization rules need to be completely scrapped and redone from ground up. It just doesn't make ANY sense to ask approval for every engine/chassis combination once you tested engines for pollution and chassis' for crash worthiness - let alone add transmission type to permutations. In all sincerity, this smells so badly of protectionism that I just cannot ignore it. Yes, protectionism, you read it correctly. Once tariffs on imports were out of question, the only way to protect (then) domestic auto industry was to limit possible combinations and allow biggest batches of production possible. Being a manufacturing insider, I know that everybody is good at efficient and cheap manufacturing if number of changes (read: customer options) is limited. This is probably not true anymore, so one reason more to get rid of the stupidity.
October 23, 2012, 11:44 pm
That is no longer strictly necessary, I agree. But it's not protectionism.
October 24, 2012, 12:57 am
I think you answered your own question...but you are probably in the minority (not necessarily a bad thing).
October 24, 2012, 4:42 am
October 24, 2012, 9:40 am
The info BMW released in July was pretty clear on the 320d coming over here.
October 24, 2012, 10:37 am
October 24, 2012, 11:31 am
I am very excited about the 320d and perhaps the 330d. I have a MT on my 2010 328i but would be ok with the AT in either D. My question is: will either of these cars be available with Xdrive? If so, I am in.
October 25, 2012, 12:51 pm
October 25, 2012, 12:55 pm
October 25, 2012, 8:09 pm
http://www.bmwcca.org/node/4531
http://www.thedieseldriver.com/2012/...-and-report/2/
There have been other news/rumors, covered in the diesel forum.
October 25, 2012, 11:46 pm
Hey all, I will really like to see F10 diesel hitting our shores.
October 26, 2012, 1:06 am
October 26, 2012, 2:11 am
I really want this car, hope it comes out within the first half of 2013, can't wait any longer!
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Bimmer App
October 26, 2012, 2:51 am
This is great news. The more diesel that get sold the more diesel station get added locally = better price for diesel. Now, I wonder if this has anything to do with the European Auto crisis. Basically, Europe is selling auto unit at 1997 level and has been in decline since 2008. I suspect we are the dumping ground along with China. BMW make a lot of diesel engines for Europe. I am not sure how much different it would be to convert to US specification. If EU spec and US spec are converging, then this would be no obvious. This is all good news for local consumers
Too bad I bought my X5 diesel already, but I hope to benefit for lower diesel prices through competition and volume discount.
October 26, 2012, 9:30 am
Any chance of 320d having Xdrive option? How might the lease rates be on these ?
October 26, 2012, 9:55 am
October 26, 2012, 6:13 pm