320d coming to US in 2013..will I dump my Prius for it?

by Bimmerfest.com Member - MarcusSDCA on October 21, 2012, 2:37 pm
So I need to replace my Prius next spring and I was thinking about the soon to be released Jetta hybrid. For the past many years since I abandoned BMW (because they abandoned those of us that wanted super high mpg sooner rather than later)...I have been driving the Prius. t's a great technological car.....but a T-E-R-R-I-B-L-E driving car.

Enter the 2013 (or late 2012?) 320d allegedly coming to the US in the spring of next year. Finally, after all the complaining I did on this board many moons ago about the fuel thirsty over-powered 335d....the suits at BMWNA have finally gotten their heads out of their trunks and decided to give America the high mpg 2 liter diesel engine that Europe has enjoyed for years.

Is this car going to be the Ultimate Hybrid Killing Machine? At probably 40K reasonably equipped (just guessing on the price) it won't kill Prius sales.....but it should eat into the premium hybrid markets for Lexus. And, it should all but guarantee the demise of the 3 series hybrid at $50 grand.

The prospect of doing my 4th Euro delivery and my first at the Welt is almost too much to handle!


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69 responses to 320d coming to US in 2013..will I dump my Prius for it?

LX-biker commented:
October 21, 2012, 3:07 pm

WOW! Prius after BMW! You are the man. 30 minutes of driving Prius was too much for me and most I can take as auto torture. If you was able drive it for a long time, why not just pick any other car capable of high miles? In Canada 320i available which is pretty good in fuel consumption. The problem with diesel BMW here is nobody knows how to fix them. I would look into new Passat TDI, it show better fuel mileage than most common economy cars according Car and driver test.
MarcusSDCA commented:
October 21, 2012, 3:37 pm

The Passat TDI is on the table as well, but after the many years of suffering with the Prius, my driving heart might need to zoom right past VW and into the BMW. If they make the 320d too expensive...which is something BMW is very good at doing.....I might go with the Jetta Hybrid or Passat TDI.....
ChrisF01 commented:
October 21, 2012, 3:55 pm

VW's normal electrical problems PLUS a hybrid system??? Are you crazy VW does know how to do diesels, though.

How much do you drive? Is it worth it to spend the premium on the diesel (fuel and car) for better gas mileage?
LX-biker commented:
October 21, 2012, 4:45 pm

If I live in CA, I would consider FRS or BRZ as well if you don't need carry staff or passengers.
MarcusSDCA commented:
October 21, 2012, 5:26 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisF02 View Post
VW's normal electrical problems PLUS a hybrid system??? Are you crazy VW does know how to do diesels, though.

How much do you drive? Is it worth it to spend the premium on the diesel (fuel and car) for better gas mileage?
I drive 15K per year easily....and it's not completely about the price....it's about using less petroleum overall.

Does anyone know what the MPG would be on the US spec 2 liter diesel? I know that it's going to be less than the Euro version.
d geek commented:
October 21, 2012, 5:27 pm

The 320d will achieve better fuel economy than the Passat, has better performance, and will cost about $6k more.

Since the Jetta hybrid uses a turbo, it may require premium fuel. If you do mostly city driving than the hybrid is a good option. If you drive 50-50 or more highway than the diesel has a fuel economy advantage.

I'd drive all three and really compare how they feel before deciding.
Jamesonsviggen commented:
October 21, 2012, 5:36 pm

I would say the price between the two will be over $10k.
d geek commented:
October 21, 2012, 5:59 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
I would say the price between the two will be over $10k.
which two?
Jamesonsviggen commented:
October 21, 2012, 6:04 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
which two?
Passat tdi and 320d.

The base 3 is $36k, the diesel wont be cheaper.

The Passat tdi starts at $24 or $26k I forget.
3ismagic# commented:
October 21, 2012, 6:33 pm

The VW TDI engines have not been without issues. 320d should be an interesting car. The irony is that Europeans should be driving hybrids while Americans should be driving diesels. Though the opposite is the case.

I love my 335d. It is the perfect daily driver. I get about 32 mpg in mixed driving 40 mpg cruising on the highway. As long as it is reasonably reliable and continues to fit my needs then I can't see getting rid of it anytime soon.
Axxlrod commented:
October 21, 2012, 6:59 pm

Isn't the 320d going to be only available in wagon form? I hope it's available in sedan also.
golovko commented:
October 21, 2012, 7:12 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxlrod View Post
Isn't the 320d going to be only available in wagon form? I hope it's available in sedan also.
I hope it is available in wagon form. I'd totally buy that for the wife.
bmw_or_audi commented:
October 21, 2012, 7:49 pm

Diesels in the US have to be fitted with too much crap to meet emission requirements to make it worthwhile for me to consider one.
d geek commented:
October 21, 2012, 7:55 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Passat tdi and 320d.

The base 3 is $36k, the diesel wont be cheaper.

The Passat tdi starts at $24 or $26k I forget.
The 320d should be priced the same as the 328i before any eco-credit is offered. It should be on par with the top of the line Passat tdi. ($33k-ish)
3ismagic# commented:
October 21, 2012, 8:15 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post
Diesels in the US have to be fitted with too much crap to meet emission requirements to make it worthwhile for me to consider one.
Not necessarily. Not all diesels need the urea system. The turbo-4 in the 320d may not.
Michael Schott commented:
October 21, 2012, 8:29 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post
Diesels in the US have to be fitted with too much crap to meet emission requirements to make it worthwhile for me to consider one.
I don't understand why this would be a negative to you.
d geek commented:
October 21, 2012, 9:49 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ismagic# View Post
Not necessarily. Not all diesels need the urea system. The turbo-4 in the 320d may not.
It needs the urea system to meet the Euro VI requirements that are roughly equivalent to current EPA levels.
hans007 commented:
October 21, 2012, 11:38 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
It needs the urea system to meet the Euro VI requirements that are roughly equivalent to current EPA levels.
not necessarily.

audi a3 / golf tdis dont have it. i know some companies can engineer a nox trap and have it do a burn occasionally instead of doing the urea treatment. who knows which way bmw will go for US requirements.
d geek commented:
October 22, 2012, 12:03 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by hans007 View Post
not necessarily.

audi a3 / golf tdis dont have it. i know some companies can engineer a nox trap and have it do a burn occasionally instead of doing the urea treatment. who knows which way bmw will go for US requirements.
You don't understand- it will need to meet EPA tier 2 bin 5 standards to be 50 state legal. The closest emissions standard they have to that in Europe is Euro VI. In order for the 320d to do have a chance at passing tier 2 bin 5 it will need to have urea. Thats what BMW says anyway.

It basically comes down to weight. The 3er is heavy enough to require it. I'd have no issues running a vehicle with urea.
MarcusSDCA commented:
October 22, 2012, 12:50 am

According to this link (http://www.bmwblog.com/2012/07/13/ru...coming-to-u-s/ ) it will be a urea system to make in California compliant. 52 mpg!! I believe that's a combined figure since from other sources I see 42mpg city and 62 mpg highway from the current 320d. These are hybrid KILLING numbers....although the CO emissions are more than double a Prius but much less than a petrol 328.
bmw_or_audi commented:
October 22, 2012, 2:31 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
It basically comes down to weight. The 3er is heavy enough to require it. I'd have no issues running a vehicle with urea.
It's not so much the urea as it is all the extra pluming. At least that is the impression I have for now, but I will research the issue again and reconsider if the 320d actually does make it to the US.
bmw_or_audi commented:
October 22, 2012, 2:31 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusSDCA View Post
According to this link (http://www.bmwblog.com/2012/07/13/ru...coming-to-u-s/ ) it will be a urea system to make in California compliant. 52 mpg!! I believe that's a combined figure since from other sources I see 42mpg city and 62 mpg highway from the current 320d. These are hybrid KILLING numbers....although the CO emissions are more than double a Prius but much less than a petrol 328.
But are those imperial gallons or US gallons?
George L Murray commented:
October 22, 2012, 5:05 am

Go for the ED model. I have just bought one and it immediatly returned 68 mpg on a 100 mile drive. 2000 miles later and I took it for a tour of the Scottish Highlands - mixed roads and no motorway - and it returned 74.9 mpg which I am delighted with.
d geek commented:
October 22, 2012, 9:12 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post
But are those imperial gallons or US gallons?
That would be US gallons.
d geek commented:
October 22, 2012, 9:16 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by George L Murray View Post
Go for the ED model. I have just bought one and it immediatly returned 68 mpg on a 100 mile drive. 2000 miles later and I took it for a tour of the Scottish Highlands - mixed roads and no motorway - and it returned 74.9 mpg which I am delighted with.
I'm assuming you are using imperial gallons. Impressive none the less!!

They haven't mentioned offering the Efficient Dynamics model over here. I'd be happy with any F30 diesel.
George L Murray commented:
October 22, 2012, 9:44 am

Yes, I am quoting imperial gallons so the figures may be misleading. But the driving was on country roads and back roads so I was up and down the gearbox quite a bit. It's a completely different car in Sport mode though. It feels like the whole car is tightening up around you. Remarkable car all round.
floydarogers commented:
October 22, 2012, 10:11 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post
It's not so much the urea as it is all the extra pluming. At least that is the impression I have for now, but I will research the issue again and reconsider if the 320d actually does make it to the US.
After some initial problems with the transfer pump (passive to active tank - it's actually a different compartment in the single "tank"), there generally haven't been any "plumbing" problems. There was a recently completed recall (official recall rather than campaign since it was emissions) to replace the SCR Mixer (injector) with a new one.

Most of us that have current diesels believe BMW was using us for a test bed population (beta site) for the SCR systems, and that the changes have been incorporated into the EU production stream for Euro IV.

The SCR catalyst takes the place of the resonator, btw. And the tank (about 5 gallons) is in the remnants of the spare tire "well".
MarcusSDCA commented:
October 22, 2012, 5:45 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by George L Murray View Post
Go for the ED model. I have just bought one and it immediatly returned 68 mpg on a 100 mile drive. 2000 miles later and I took it for a tour of the Scottish Highlands - mixed roads and no motorway - and it returned 74.9 mpg which I am delighted with.
That's amazing......if I can get a manual transmission and Nav and keep it around 40K or less Euro delivery.....I'm IN.
Mark K commented:
October 22, 2012, 6:13 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusSDCA View Post
That's amazing......if I can get a manual transmission and Nav and keep it around 40K or less Euro delivery.....I'm IN.
Except for this:

"Both engines will be paired with the eight-speed automatic transmission to further increase fuel efficiency"

That's when I lost all interest. I believe it will be VW again when I replace my 2006 Jetta TDI. First, they bring agricultural application diesel for which a manual transmission doesn't even exist, then they smarten up and decide to bring civilized application diesel with very high mileage, but decide to NOT give us MT. Sorry, BMW, somebody else is getting that sale. I'm done with that cr*p and waiting games.
d geek commented:
October 22, 2012, 6:44 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
... First, they bring agricultural application diesel for which a manual transmission doesn't even exist...
Are you referring to the engine in the E90 335d? How would that be an "agricultural application"?
MarcusSDCA commented:
October 22, 2012, 7:46 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
Are you referring to the engine in the E90 335d? How would that be an "agricultural application"?
I'm guessing he meant the diesel in the 335 is so big and over powered it must have been intended for a tractor.

While I'm all for big power choices for BMWs....I still think BMWNA treats Americans like idiots by not offering the slow-poke high mpg diesels here. Maybe it's the CA emission requirements that drives their decisions but heck, if VW and Audi can do it..........

Anyway, I would still consider a small BMW diesel even if that meant auto transmission. Can't for the life of me figure out why on a small diesel engine they would restrict which transmission I could choose. That's almost.....scary.
brkf commented:
October 22, 2012, 7:59 pm

Good news if true.
d geek commented:
October 22, 2012, 8:19 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusSDCA View Post
... Can't for the life of me figure out why on a small diesel engine they would restrict which transmission I could choose...
The reason for this is because they need each powertrain certified by the EPA. They are betting that they'll sell more autos than manual trans.
floydarogers commented:
October 22, 2012, 9:31 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
Except for this:"Both engines will be paired with the eight-speed automatic transmission to further increase fuel efficiency"
...Sorry, BMW, somebody else is getting that sale. I'm done with that cr*p and waiting games.
I would say: "If you want a MT for the diesels, find a bunch of people and tell BMW that you will pay them the $5 million or whatever to certify it." My guess is that the number is in the few hundreds, so be prepared to write a check for $5K-$10K.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusSDCA View Post
According to this link (http://www.bmwblog.com/2012/07/13/ru...coming-to-u-s/ ) it will be a urea system to make in California compliant.
I wish you guys would stop blaming California (I'm not one, but still) emissions. Please note that all 50 states have the same CO/HC/NOx emissions requirements, and all 50 states have the same (or very similar) requirements for ultra-low sulfur - 0.15 ppm. These are US EPA requirements, not CA.

The only requirements that CA has in addition to that is for low CO2 emissions, which require smaller and more fuel-efficient cars.
MarcusSDCA commented:
October 22, 2012, 9:41 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
I would say: "If you want a MT for the diesels, find a bunch of people and tell BMW that you will pay them the $5 million or whatever to certify it." My guess is that the number is in the few hundreds, so be prepared to write a check for $5K-$10K.



I wish you guys would stop blaming California (I'm not one, but still) emissions. Please note that all 50 states have the same CO/HC/NOx emissions requirements, and all 50 states have the same (or very similar) requirements for ultra-low sulfur - 0.15 ppm. These are US EPA requirements, not CA.

The only requirements that CA has in addition to that is for low CO2 emissions, which require smaller and more fuel-efficient cars.
Thanks for clearing that up about California....I admit I haven't researched the topic lately but do remember when you could only bring USED diesel VWs and MBZs, with more than 7500 miles on their clocks, into California from AZ and NV or wherever because they couldn't be sold new here...that was only 4-5 years ago.

Is there really any evidence that BMW engines pollute more when you couple them to a manual transmission? I mean, with Steptronic you can mimic the manual's high RPMs and hence the emissions if you wanted to. Someone 'splain that to me.
d geek commented:
October 22, 2012, 10:27 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusSDCA View Post
...
Is there really any evidence that BMW engines pollute more when you couple them to a manual transmission? I mean, with Steptronic you can mimic the manual's high RPMs and hence the emissions if you wanted to. Someone 'splain that to me.
According to BMW, the manual uses slightly more fuel than the auto so therefore its emissions are a bit higher.

The emissions are not why BMW is planning on introducing the 320d with the auto trans- its because their market research tells them there is market support for the auto, but the manual trans demand is questionable at this time. If the 320d is well received by this market, then there is a better chance for a manual trans offering because they might determine that the ROI on the additional EPA registration costs are sufficient.
dalekressin commented:
October 22, 2012, 10:30 pm

oil burners will be exchanged for many prius cars.
floydarogers commented:
October 22, 2012, 10:36 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusSDCA View Post
Is there really any evidence that BMW engines pollute more when you couple them to a manual transmission? I mean, with Steptronic you can mimic the manual's high RPMs and hence the emissions if you wanted to. Someone 'splain that to me.
It has nothing to do with emissions. It purely has to do with the cost to certify a MT car, in addition to an AT car. I think you will agree that, with fewer than 20% (really, fewer than 10%) of BMW cars sold, you have to have an auto. MT cars just don't sell enough units to make it worthwhile for BMW.

BMW is selling around 100K 3-series in the US. The MT % has been down-trending; I believe that it's now around 10% or so (and there are no significant other MT sales other than in Minis.) So you need to amortize the cost of certification over 10K vehicles rather than 90K vehicles. If that cost is $5M, you're talking $500 premium, rather than $55. No wonder that the AT is a no-cost option.

(I'm totally guessing at $5M BTW. It could be $1M, it could be $10M.)
dunderhi commented:
October 22, 2012, 11:26 pm

How is it the M5 can have an auto and a manual?
d geek commented:
October 22, 2012, 11:32 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
How is it the M5 can have an auto and a manual?
Known demand and high profit margin?
Mark K commented:
October 23, 2012, 1:39 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
Are you referring to the engine in the E90 335d? How would that be an "agricultural application"?
When it became available, it had more torque than ANY full-size pick up truck with biggest optional gasoline engine. In a 3 series chassis. Crazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
I would say: "If you want a MT for the diesels, find a bunch of people and tell BMW that you will pay them the $5 million or whatever to certify it." My guess is that the number is in the few hundreds, so be prepared to write a check for $5K-$10K.
If they would actually look and see how many of those 2 liter diesels are sold with MT (25-30% roughly across models) by somebody else instead of looking at numbers from "market research" then they would have done it. But, according to latest fashion, the reality is way less credible (and much less "cool") than projections properly displayed in a nice Power Point pie charts.
bmw_or_audi commented:
October 23, 2012, 2:32 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
How is it the M5 can have an auto and a manual?
I think as of next year the M5 won't be offered with a manual anymore.
55 commented:
October 23, 2012, 8:41 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
Except for this:

"Both engines will be paired with the eight-speed automatic transmission to further increase fuel efficiency"

That's when I lost all interest. I believe it will be VW again when I replace my 2006 Jetta TDI. First, they bring agricultural application diesel for which a manual transmission doesn't even exist, then they smarten up and decide to bring civilized application diesel with very high mileage, but decide to NOT give us MT. Sorry, BMW, somebody else is getting that sale. I'm done with that cr*p and waiting games.
+1


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Needsdecaf commented:
October 23, 2012, 8:46 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
When it became available, it had more torque than ANY full-size pick up truck with biggest optional gasoline engine. In a 3 series chassis. Crazy.



If they would actually look and see how many of those 2 liter diesels are sold with MT (25-30% roughly across models) by somebody else instead of looking at numbers from "market research" then they would have done it. But, according to latest fashion, the reality is way less credible (and much less "cool") than projections properly displayed in a nice Power Point pie charts.
???

Sales data doesn't lie. BMW has offered manuals in quirky combinations before (E61 anyone?) and had the take rate so low that they had no choice but to abandon.

It costs $2M to $5M to certify each power plant. Sorry, why do it just to satisfy a few hundred people? Utopia is great but....
55 commented:
October 23, 2012, 10:09 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
???

Sales data doesn't lie. BMW has offered manuals in quirky combinations before (E61 anyone?) and had the take rate so low that they had no choice but to abandon.

It costs $2M to $5M to certify each power plant. Sorry, why do it just to satisfy a few hundred people? Utopia is great but....
Voice of a share holder, not a consumer. I wouldn't mind to be satisfied. And why is it 5-10% of the market is negligible? They should fight tooth and nail for that.
Got too fat lately I guess..

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jusmills commented:
October 23, 2012, 1:44 pm

Would you guys consider it if BMW bought the 320d over with DCT...I think that would be best of both worlds...however DCT is expensive. Have both MT and diesel to me is ideal. I can see a 320d with Auto being the base car and BMW upselling the MT by calling it the diesel 'Sport' line.
LDV330i commented:
October 23, 2012, 2:09 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by George L Murray View Post
Go for the ED model. I have just bought one and it immediatly returned 68 mpg on a 100 mile drive. 2000 miles later and I took it for a tour of the Scottish Highlands - mixed roads and no motorway - and it returned 74.9 mpg which I am delighted with.
ED cars meet US specifications so that they can be brought into the States.
jbbrann commented:
October 23, 2012, 2:37 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDV330i View Post
ED cars meet US specifications so that they can be brought into the States.
ED in this context means "Efficient Dynamics". We will probably only get one version of the 320d in the US and my guess would be that it won't be the ED version.

Also, the new 8 speed auto is what, 8-10% more efficient than the manual in pretty much every application? Since the 320d is a "fuel efficient" model, I can't say I'd be surprised to see only the auto offered. Hopefully they will offer manual in the 330d here.
Vanos4:12PM commented:
October 23, 2012, 5:02 pm

Very exciting - I have always wished for a 330d or 320d to be shipped here. I think people would be very surprised at the mpg AND power/quiteness of the car.
Mark K commented:
October 23, 2012, 7:26 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
???

Sales data doesn't lie. BMW has offered manuals in quirky combinations before (E61 anyone?) and had the take rate so low that they had no choice but to abandon.

It costs $2M to $5M to certify each power plant. Sorry, why do it just to satisfy a few hundred people? Utopia is great but....
What I meant is BMW needs to go and look how another manufacturer fares with selling 2 liter diesels and how many they sell with MT. I don't have access to that data, but I would be willing to bet that MINIMUM 20% of all VWs sold in TDI guise were also with MT. Yes, I could be wrong - unfortunately we don't have that info.

As mentioned in another similar thread on Bimmerfest, I believe that very few customers who will go to BMW dealership in order to check/test drive/buy a 320d will be of the clueless sort that listen to the salesman and let him sell them the car. In the informed customers group quite a few will be car enthusiasts and large portion of those will want MT. Just the same as with VW diesels.

I believe BMWNA is being pigheaded in this one and doesn't want veritable numbers to mess with nicely displayed speculations - those pie charts just look too good to mess with.
golovko commented:
October 23, 2012, 8:04 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by 55 View Post
Voice of a share holder, not a consumer. I wouldn't mind to be satisfied. And why is it 5-10% of the market is negligible? They should fight tooth and nail for that.
Got too fat lately I guess..

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Bimmer App
Voice of a shareholder isn't "make a product that only I want" its "make a product that is profitable so I can get a return on investment"

If you want BMW to offer something that is not profitable you probably shouldn't be a shareholder.
MarcusSDCA commented:
October 23, 2012, 9:01 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
What I meant is BMW needs to go and look how another manufacturer fares with selling 2 liter diesels and how many they sell with MT. I don't have access to that data, but I would be willing to bet that MINIMUM 20% of all VWs sold in TDI guise were also with MT. Yes, I could be wrong - unfortunately we don't have that info.
I did my own research on the MT vs AUTO for VW TDI sales. Now, this isn't scientific but if you look at AutoTrader.com and search for used cars....you can actually get a rough idea.

There are currently, nationwide, 335(!) automatic 2009 Jetta TDIs for sale and 69 manual 2009 Jetta TDIs.

Hence, 17% of 2009 Jetta VWs are manual. I'm assuming that MT owners sell their cars at the same frequency as AUTO but wouldn't be surprised if they hold onto them just a little longer as they tend to be enthusiasts. That might mean the % is maybe more like 20% but that would be pure speculation.

Interestingly, the GOLF TDI for 2010 has about a 50/50 distribution.....28 sticks vs 26 automatics available nationwide. This is truly a stick-shift centric model!

So the 3 series would probably attract fewer stick drivers than the Jetta...maybe 10-15%
Mark K commented:
October 23, 2012, 10:04 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusSDCA View Post
So the 3 series would probably attract fewer stick drivers than the Jetta...maybe 10-15%
One thing I can say for sure (but we will never know it for certain, unfortunately) - 320d would sell much higher percentage of MTs than 328i. Now, how high "units sold" number would be is anybody's guess.

Another thing is pretty obvious to anybody who is not asleep - our federalization rules need to be completely scrapped and redone from ground up. It just doesn't make ANY sense to ask approval for every engine/chassis combination once you tested engines for pollution and chassis' for crash worthiness - let alone add transmission type to permutations. In all sincerity, this smells so badly of protectionism that I just cannot ignore it. Yes, protectionism, you read it correctly. Once tariffs on imports were out of question, the only way to protect (then) domestic auto industry was to limit possible combinations and allow biggest batches of production possible. Being a manufacturing insider, I know that everybody is good at efficient and cheap manufacturing if number of changes (read: customer options) is limited. This is probably not true anymore, so one reason more to get rid of the stupidity.
floydarogers commented:
October 23, 2012, 11:44 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
... It just doesn't make ANY sense to ask approval for every engine/chassis combination once you tested engines for pollution and chassis' for crash worthiness - let alone add transmission type to permutations. In all sincerity, this smells so badly of protectionism that I just cannot ignore it...
It was never about protectionism. It was about the fact that, in the early development stages of emissions controls, the control mechanisms weren't very powerful. For instance, one reason that the Mazda RX7 was almost a 2+2 was so that it would be long enough to contain the exhaust system that was needed to clean the exhaust stream. The different regimes of MT vs. auto (remember, most autos were 3 spd in those days, some only 2 spd) made major differences between the two. Using the same engine in two different cars (say the Chevy X cars versus the Malibu) mandated changes to the emissions controls. The only way to ensure compliance was to test every engine/transmission/car combination.

That is no longer strictly necessary, I agree. But it's not protectionism.
ProRail commented:
October 24, 2012, 12:57 am

I think you answered your own question...but you are probably in the minority (not necessarily a bad thing).
tturedraider commented:
October 24, 2012, 4:42 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusSDCA View Post
According to this link (http://www.bmwblog.com/2012/07/13/ru...coming-to-u-s/ ) it will be a urea system to make in California compliant. 52 mpg!! I believe that's a combined figure since from other sources I see 42mpg city and 62 mpg highway from the current 320d. These are hybrid KILLING numbers....although the CO emissions are more than double a Prius but much less than a petrol 328.
I would pretty much bet the farm the odds are virtually nil BMWNA will import this car to the U.S.
d geek commented:
October 24, 2012, 9:40 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
I would pretty much bet the farm the odds are virtually nil BMWNA will import this car to the U.S.
Where is the farm located and how many acres?
The info BMW released in July was pretty clear on the 320d coming over here.
bimmerdiesel commented:
October 24, 2012, 10:37 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
I would pretty much bet the farm the odds are virtually nil BMWNA will import this car to the U.S.
Farm I think you meant your backyard. In a recent dealer presentation it was confirmed 4cyl and 6 cyl diesel options will be available by next yr end
cruise_bone commented:
October 24, 2012, 11:31 am

I am very excited about the 320d and perhaps the 330d. I have a MT on my 2010 328i but would be ok with the AT in either D. My question is: will either of these cars be available with Xdrive? If so, I am in.
MarcusSDCA commented:
October 25, 2012, 12:51 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerdiesel View Post
Farm I think you meant your backyard. In a recent dealer presentation it was confirmed 4cyl and 6 cyl diesel options will be available by next yr end
Next year end?? So Spring of 2013 is unlikely?
d geek commented:
October 25, 2012, 12:55 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusSDCA View Post
Next year end?? So Spring of 2013 is unlikely?
This info indicates the first half of CY 2013 for intro of 3er diesel sedan.
floydarogers commented:
October 25, 2012, 8:09 pm

http://www.bmwcca.org/node/4531
http://www.thedieseldriver.com/2012/...-and-report/2/

There have been other news/rumors, covered in the diesel forum.
bayoucity commented:
October 25, 2012, 11:46 pm

Hey all, I will really like to see F10 diesel hitting our shores.
d geek commented:
October 26, 2012, 1:06 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
Hey all, I will really like to see F10 diesel hitting our shores.
The link I shared in my last post shows the 5er d will be here by Q3 of CY2013.
forestberry commented:
October 26, 2012, 2:11 am

I really want this car, hope it comes out within the first half of 2013, can't wait any longer!

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Bimmer App
henrycyao commented:
October 26, 2012, 2:51 am

This is great news. The more diesel that get sold the more diesel station get added locally = better price for diesel. Now, I wonder if this has anything to do with the European Auto crisis. Basically, Europe is selling auto unit at 1997 level and has been in decline since 2008. I suspect we are the dumping ground along with China. BMW make a lot of diesel engines for Europe. I am not sure how much different it would be to convert to US specification. If EU spec and US spec are converging, then this would be no obvious. This is all good news for local consumers

Too bad I bought my X5 diesel already, but I hope to benefit for lower diesel prices through competition and volume discount.
dima123 commented:
October 26, 2012, 9:30 am

Any chance of 320d having Xdrive option? How might the lease rates be on these ?
d geek commented:
October 26, 2012, 9:55 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by dima123 View Post
Any chance of 320d having Xdrive option? How might the lease rates be on these ?
There's been no mention of an F30 xDrive diesel being brought over yet. Hopefully the RWD will sell great and they would consider the xDrive as well.
MarcusSDCA commented:
October 26, 2012, 6:13 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
There's been no mention of an F30 xDrive diesel being brought over yet. Hopefully the RWD will sell great and they would consider the xDrive as well.
Actually I'd also be very interested in the X1 2.0d with or without x drive...San Diego really doesn't call for all wheel drive but I'd take this SUV with a baby diesel. Here's a pic I snapped in New Delhi of one last Feb. It's a 2.0d