E92 3 Series Coupe VS F32 4 Series Coupe - Which styling do you prefer?

by Tim Jones on November 14, 2012, 12:30 pm
E92 3 series coupe styling verses F32 4 series coupe styling

We've spied most of the 2014 F32 4 series coupe exposed as BMW was loading a per-production model onto a truck. It is now time to put the E92 3 series coupe up against it successor the F32 4 series coupe. Based on the above picture which BMW would you drive home?

If you're confused about the 4 series naming it is alright, but where have you been for the last 6 months? BMW will no longer be making a 3 series coupe, remaining the E92 successor, chassis code F32 to a 4 series. This allows them to take the 4 series up market in terms of pricing while leaving their bread and butter, the 3 series sedan alone.

Flip over to the F30/F31/F32/F33 forum thread on the F32 for more details.

Complete F32 4 Series Coupe Gallery


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74 responses to E92 3 Series Coupe VS F32 4 Series Coupe - Which styling do you prefer?

SD Z4MR commented:
November 14, 2012, 2:03 pm

Too soon to tell. I'll wait until we can get a full, 360 degree view. A large part of the character of a car is the way the nose and tail look and we still haven't seen those yet.

From what we can see at this point, I'm not a big fan of the front fender vent. The rocker panel looks pretty plain and kind of slab-like. The roofline, particularly near the rear window and the Hofmeister kink is much more streamlined and has more of a fastback look.
tim330i commented:
November 14, 2012, 3:08 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Z4MR View Post
From what we can see at this point, I'm not a big fan of the front fender vent. The rocker panel looks pretty plain and kind of slab-like. The roofline, particularly near the rear window and the Hofmeister kink is much more streamlined and has more of a fastback look.
Great summation! The front fender vent is horrible and looks event worse and cheap in the up close picture. I like the rocker panel but agree they are plain. Describing the rear window as fastback is dead on, great description!

Tim
DSXMachina commented:
November 14, 2012, 3:26 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by tim330i View Post
E92 3 series coupe styling verses F32 4 series coupe styling

We've spied most of the 2014 F32 4 series coupe exposed as BMW was loading a per-production model onto a truck. It is now time to put the E92 3 series coupe up against it successor the F32 4 series coupe. Based on the above picture which BMW would you drive home?

If you're confused about the 4 series naming it is alright, but where have you been for the last 6 months? BMW will no longer be making a 3 series coupe, remaining the E92 successor, chassis code F32 to a 4 series. This allows them to take the 4 series up market in terms of pricing while leaving their bread and butter, the 3 series sedan alone.

Flip over to the F30/F31/F32/F33 forum thread on the F32 for more details.

Complete F32 4 Series Coupe Gallery
In other words, they're doing with the E92 the same thing they did with the 5 coupe, they call it a 6 series and charge more. Brilliant.

I can't vote until I see more pics. The fender scoop* could work, or just look like an affectation so long eschewed by BMW.

* It looked good on my '66 Mustang, but that had three strakes on it and looked sharp.
nathand commented:
November 14, 2012, 3:31 pm

I like it, looks like a smaller 6 series! The dealer had a new M6 on the showroom I was drooling over this morning while getting an oil change. I think I will be getting an F32 when I'm ready for a new car :-)
RBinDC commented:
November 14, 2012, 3:33 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by tim330i View Post
Great summation! The front fender vent is horrible and looks event worse and cheap in the up close picture. I like the rocker panel but agree they are plain. Describing the rear window as fastback is dead on, great description!

Tim
Aw com'on.

That air vent looks good. Also, the new coupe looks longer and sleeker but not an overweight pig like the 6-series coupe.

I like what I see. But I'm not shelling out any more money until my 2011 335is becomes antiquated.
Fravel commented:
November 14, 2012, 3:42 pm

Too soon to vote. My choice will be completely dependent upon what they do with the front end. If they keep the ugly-as-sin unibrow look that the F30 has, then the E92 is the easy winner. If they realize how badly they screwed up the F30 and make adjustments for the F32, then it could have potential.
-=Hot|Ice=- commented:
November 14, 2012, 3:48 pm

Too big. E92 was perfect on terms of size.
tim330i commented:
November 14, 2012, 3:50 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fravel View Post
Too soon to vote. My choice will be completely dependent upon what they do with the front end. If they keep the ugly-as-sin unibrow look that the F30 has, then the E92 is the easy winner. If they realize how badly they screwed up the F30 and make adjustments for the F32, then it could have potential.
I hate to disappoint but the F32 will have a front end similar to the F30. The front grills will be wider and flatter with the headlight shaped tighten. Make no mistake the headlights will connect to the grills in a similar fashion to how the styling was done on the F30. It really grows on you, I think it looks fantastic on the F30 3 series now!

Tim
-=Hot|Ice=- commented:
November 14, 2012, 3:50 pm

I also don't like how it looks like a mini 6. The 6's character is completely different from the 3's. The 6 a big oversight boat. This will just be a smaller overweight boat.
boramkiv commented:
November 14, 2012, 4:14 pm

I thought this would happen soon enough, but not as the 4 series. It's really hard improve
on an awesome design. Not too many differences from this view. I guess that's why the 911 lived for so many years.
Lufthansa commented:
November 14, 2012, 5:46 pm

IIRC, the new coupe won't have the NA six, but a turbo 4 as the base engine. I don't do turbos and I don't do fours.
tim330i commented:
November 14, 2012, 5:50 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lufthansa View Post
IIRC, the new coupe won't have the NA six, but a turbo 4 as the base engine. I don't do turbos and I don't do fours.
Correct, just like the F30 3 series sedan there is no NA engine option. The base 428i will be powered by the N20 4 cylinder turbo. If you haven't driven one I suggest you give it a try, it handily out drives and out performs the N52. The big brother 440i will be powered by a new inline 6 single turbo based on BMWs latest EfficentDynamics engine family. Expect a power bump over the F30 N55 engine.

Tim
bear-avhistory commented:
November 14, 2012, 5:51 pm

I like it so far. Was expecting to get the turbo M3 replacement when its released in coupe form.
SilverX3 commented:
November 14, 2012, 6:11 pm

I love both

Will buy the new 4 if I win a lottery
beden1 commented:
November 14, 2012, 7:44 pm

I had suggested to Tim that he place this poll here as it was originally placed in the F30 section where everyone voted for the new body style. I thought we would be less biased and I guess I was correct. At this point, the votes are 5 to 2 in favor of the F32.

I would also like to see the whole car with a view of the front and rear before final judgement, but IMO, this car looks sleak and may incorporate the extended front bumper better than the F30. But, I also hate the unibrow headlamps.
groundeffect commented:
November 14, 2012, 7:56 pm

I like the profile, look forward to the m4-I'll be buying one
as long as the front end isn't too similar to the new design.
SD Z4MR commented:
November 14, 2012, 9:01 pm

I have to laugh every time I see someone say that they hate the way the headlights touch the grilles on the F30. It just makes me think of little kids who won't eat their meals because the meat/potatoes/vegetables are touching each other. What a bunch of fussy eaters! To think that someone wouldn't buy a BMW because of this is even more laughable. What are you gonna do, buy an Audi or some other, lesser car?

P.S. I didn't like the look of the Z4 when it was first released but that wasn't the only reason I wouldn't have bought one at the time. The look grew on me but when I had a chance to buy my Z4 M Roadster looks definitely weren't the first consideration. I'll be doing ED on an M4 in a few years no matter how it looks.
beden1 commented:
November 14, 2012, 9:08 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Z4MR View Post
I have to laugh every time I see someone say that they hate the way the headlights touch the grilles on the F30. It just makes me think of little kids who won't eat their meals because the meat/potatoes/vegetables are touching each other. What a bunch of fussy eaters! To think that someone wouldn't buy a BMW because of this is even more laughable. What are you gonna do, buy an Audi or some other, lesser car?

P.S. I didn't like the look of the Z4 when it was first released but that wasn't the only reason I wouldn't have bought one at the time. The look grew on me but when I had a chance to buy my Z4 M Roadster looks definitely weren't the first consideration. I'll be doing ED on an M4 in a few years no matter how it looks.
Now, who is being silly?
SD Z4MR commented:
November 14, 2012, 9:18 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
Now, who is being silly?
Who mentioned silly and what does this have to do with being silly? You'd seriously not buy an M4 because of how it looks, regardless of the performance?

I know a woman who has a serious thing for the color purple and a few years ago during the minivan craze she bought a purple minivan only because she really liked the shade of purple that was offered on that model. Manufacturer, reliability, warranty, nothing else mattered, she just really liked that purple. Now that's silly.
beden1 commented:
November 14, 2012, 9:25 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Z4MR View Post
Who mentioned silly and what does this have to do with being silly? You'd seriously not buy an M4 because of how it looks, regardless of the performance?

I know a woman who has a serious thing for the color purple and a few years ago during the minivan craze she bought a purple minivan only because she really liked the shade of purple that was offered on that model. Manufacturer, reliability, warranty, nothing else mattered, she just really liked that purple. Now that's silly.
No, I would certainly not buy a car if I did not like the way it looks. I think most people would not. There are always other cars available from which to choose, especially now that BMW has become a softer performer. Consumers are what drives designs, features and performance. If people don't like what they see, then manufacturers are forced to offer what they do want to buy.
beden1 commented:
November 14, 2012, 9:32 pm

I also would not buy a car that I liked the way it looks but does not perform very well.
beden1 commented:
November 14, 2012, 9:34 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Z4MR View Post
Who mentioned silly and what does this have to do with being silly? You'd seriously not buy an M4 because of how it looks, regardless of the performance?

I know a woman who has a serious thing for the color purple and a few years ago during the minivan craze she bought a purple minivan only because she really liked the shade of purple that was offered on that model. Manufacturer, reliability, warranty, nothing else mattered, she just really liked that purple. Now that's silly.
I was looking at your signature picture. How are you able to race your Z4 convertible without a frame mounted roll bar?
SD Z4MR commented:
November 14, 2012, 9:44 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
No, I would certainly not buy a car if I did not like the way it looks. I think most people would not.
I'm certainly not "most people" and I'm quite proud of that! Looks just aren't at the top of my list for a car. However, if the Pontiac Aztek outperformed a BMW I'm not saying that I'd buy it based solely on it's performance because looks do play some part. I'd at least have to be able to look at it every day without cringing!

If a BMW M4 disappoints solely in the looks department that wouldn't be enough reason for me not to buy it. It will still be a BMW and it will be an ///M car and it will still be highly desirable for a lot of people, but probably not "most people". I have faith that it will outperform every other 3 Series M car that came before it. However, I still reserve the right to make a final decision.
SD Z4MR commented:
November 14, 2012, 9:45 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
I also would not buy a car that I liked the way it looks but does not perform very well.
That's a given! Kind of like the purple minivan! There's a lot of cars that meet this criteria.
SD Z4MR commented:
November 14, 2012, 9:51 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
I was looking at your signature picture. How are you able to race your Z4 M Roadster without a frame mounted roll bar?
Fixed!

I've autocrossed the car twice since I bought it and have another autocross coming up next month.

I can't track the car at any BMW CCA track event (or more correctly, "High Performance Driving Event" or "High Performance Driving School") because BMW CCA does not allow open top cars regardless of any rollover protection they have. However, I tracked my S2000 many, many times at other non-BMW CCA track events. At this point I'd want dedicated track tires and wheels like I had on my S2000 and we have for our 335is (the runflat tires on the 335is didn't work so well for autocrossing). Maybe next year.
CALWATERBOY commented:
November 14, 2012, 9:54 pm

I naturally like the 4.

But prefer the look o'this Japanese car:

SD Z4MR commented:
November 14, 2012, 10:02 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
I naturally like the 4.

But prefer the look o'this Japanese car:

I saw this at the IAS in Detroit last January. It was absolutely gorgeous, really stunning! I always loved the original NSX, and I still have a tiny bit of love left for Honda at this point, but I'm guessing that this will be out of my price range!
Nordic_Kat commented:
November 14, 2012, 10:03 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Z4MR View Post
I'll be doing ED on an M4 in a few years no matter how it looks.
So you would be okay with a 450 hp clone of the Nissan "Cube"? I am presuming the fact that it might wear a BMW Roundel is incidental?


(Ah, I saw your post about the Aztec that you composed while I was composing)


Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
No, I would certainly not buy a car if I did not like the way it looks. I think most people would not.
Seriously, I think most consumers are primarily driven by looks and marque, performance and engineering are secondary. Just go back to the Bimmerfest archives and read the posts about "is the 1 series FWD or RWD?"
http://wwww.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...713&highlight=

For that matter look at all the 1 series posts about it looking like a "girl" car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
I also would not buy a car that I liked the way it looks but does not perform very well.
This is where the discerning consumer steps in. Just as in my absurd example above, the looks have to go hand in hand with the performance. Does anybody remember the "no-go-Show-Boat" Camaro in the 70's? Looked great, fell flat on its face.

That being said, with regard to the F32/F33 I am more disturbed by the move away from an NA I6 than I am by the cosmetic metamorphism that is bound to occur with model changes. I am a long term keeper of cars, so my next car buying cycle will probably occur with the G or H variant, and by that time Turbos vs NA will most likely be totally irrelevant.
SD Z4MR commented:
November 14, 2012, 10:15 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic_Kat View Post
So you would be okay with a 450 hp clone of the Nissan "Cube"? I am presuming the fact that it might wear a BMW Roundel is incidental?

Seriously, I think most consumers are primarily driven by looks and marque, performance and engineering are secondary. Just go back to the Bimmerfest archives and read the posts about "is the 1 series FWD or RWD?"
http://wwww.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...713&highlight=

For that matter look at all the 1 series posts about it looking like a "girl" car.

This is where the discerning consumer steps in. Just as in my absurd example above, the looks have to go hand in hand with the performance. Does anybody remember the "no-go-Show-Boat" Camaro in the 70's? Looked great, fell flat on its face.

That being said, with regard to the F32/F33 I am more disturbed by the move away from an NA I6 than I am by the cosmetic metamorphism that is bound to occur with model changes. I am a long term keeper of cars, so my next car buying cycle will probably occur with the G or H variant, and by that time Turbos vs NA will most likely be totally irrelevant.
Already asked and answered in Post #24!

Agreed that most consumers aren't very discerning or even very knowledgeable about their car purchases, or for that matter, most of their purchases.

This same woman who used to own a purple minivan because of the color now drives a 550i. She knows nothing about it, her husband bought it for her because "the 535i didn't have enough power". She calls it "her Beemer" and it's got those pretty blue and white emblems on it. He drive a "Porsh", but neither of them has ever driven either of the cars at any performance event of any kind, even a Car Control Clinic, so I'm not sure why he thinks that the 535i "doesn't have enough power" because neither of them would even know what to do with that power. His car also comes from Germany and has that pretty gold crest on it. They both look really good driving in their cars.
beden1 commented:
November 14, 2012, 10:19 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic_Kat View Post
That being said, with regard to the F32/F33 I am more disturbed by the move away from an NA I6 than I am by the cosmetic metamorphism that is bound to occur with model changes. I am a long term keeper of cars, so my next car buying cycle will probably occur with the G or H variant, and by that time Turbos vs NA will most likely be totally irrelevant.
As much as I like my 335is, I would like it much more if it were NA or if it had a super charger. The notchy turbo performance takes away from an otherwise very capable and enjoyable car.

Our S4 with a super charged 6 cylinder engine has super smooth performance by comparison. Unfortunately, It looks like gas powered engines with turbos are here to stay, at least with BMW, and possibly in time, they can get the turbos to perform as smooth as an NA engine. Until then however, I will not be buying any cars with turbos anytime soon for my personal rides at least.

I don't mind turbo diesel engines, and in fact, I really enjoyed test driving a Porsche Cayenne Turbo S last month when I was there for service. I would just have a real problem paying that kind of money for an SUV.
beden1 commented:
November 14, 2012, 10:32 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Z4MR View Post
Already asked and answered in Post #24!

Agreed that most consumers aren't very discerning or even very knowledgeable about their car purchases, or for that matter, most of their purchases.

This same woman who used to own a purple minivan because of the color now drives a 550i. She knows nothing about it, her husband bought it for her because "the 535i didn't have enough power". She calls it "her Beemer" and it's got those pretty blue and white emblems on it. He drive a "Porsh", but neither of them has ever driven either of the cars at any performance event of any kind, even a Car Control Clinic, so I'm not sure why he thinks that the 535i "doesn't have enough power" because neither of them would even know what to do with that power. His car also comes from Germany and has that pretty gold crest on it. They both look really good driving in their cars.
Now, now, don't be a hater. You live in CA and should be used to status seekers by now. Your neighbors do sound like they would be perfect candidates to be on a "Housewives of San Diego" Reality TV show.
Nordic_Kat commented:
November 14, 2012, 10:45 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Z4MR View Post
She calls it "her Beemer" and it's got those pretty blue and white emblems on it. He drive a "Porsh". . . . They both look really good driving in their cars.
OMG, don't get me started on the "Porsh" and for that matter "Beamer" thing. I almost made mortal enemies of in-laws this summer over those details.
beden1 commented:
November 14, 2012, 10:56 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic_Kat View Post
OMG, don't get me started on the "Porsh" and for that matter "Beamer" thing. I almost made mortal enemies of in-laws this summer over those details.
My wife and I had this very discussion last month about Beamer versus Bimmer. She loves BMWs and is on her second and drove my previous BMWs whenever she could get her hands on the keys. So, we were taking a drive in the country and she commented about a "beamer" that drove by. I asked her where she heard that terminology and she said that is what everyone from work and her other friends calls them. I straightened her out, nicely of course, but it is what it is.

She knows that a Porsche is a Porsche and not a Porsh, fortunately.
Nordic_Kat commented:
November 14, 2012, 11:55 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
She knows that a Porsche is a Porsche and not a Porsh, fortunately.
Lucky you.
My curse is that I was taught correctly at the tender age of 5 that it is "Por-shuh".

Unfortunately for me, this summer our 26 year old niece tried to 'educate' me on how "hip" people pronounce Porsche. More unfortunate, is her stepmom who probably really doesn't have a clue what the difference is between a Ferarri and Ford Focus chastised me for being "pompous" for making the effort toward correct pronounciation.



(Thank you for letting me vent that among folks who understand.)
Chop362 commented:
November 15, 2012, 12:01 am

If it has a hood delete i'm in!! Better yet if it resembles it's brother the F30 I'm out!! Get the E90's while still available and save your soul!!
bmw330ci04 commented:
November 15, 2012, 12:25 am

without seeing the front, i like it so far, though i still think the timeless lines of my e46 are really tough to beat..
DougN commented:
November 15, 2012, 8:14 am

I think the F32 looks better than I thought it would. The new roofline seems more "Porsche-like" to me, and since the vent on the front fender is functional, I don't really have a problem with it. I am more interested in seeing how the new F33 cabrio will look since if I replaced my E93 (which is doubtful) it would need to be replaced by another cabrio/convertible.
chris328 commented:
November 15, 2012, 8:55 am

way too early to tell, but if I hadto say based on this picture i would say e92 because i hate those stupid ford mustang looking side vents.
bear-avhistory commented:
November 15, 2012, 9:33 am

For what ever reason or make of car a solid chunk of the current owners always "hate" the new model.

Its especially interesting to watch the hate build up in car lines that are very evolutionary like BMW. Maybe it makes some sense in a car like the Acura TL that went from the 3G to 4G beak but itís a real stretch in the 3 series.
chris328 commented:
November 15, 2012, 10:08 am

f30 deserves the hate, and whoever designed should have gotten canned
gcreese commented:
November 15, 2012, 11:04 am

I'm surprised by how similar the two are from the side. The Hoffmeister kink is a bit too severe for my tastes, but I don't hate it.

What's interesting is how the panels fit together. How the hood opens is different in the two models. In the E92, the running board panel has a bit of a swoop shape; in the F32, it's straight all the way. In the E92, the shape makes room for the swoop of the M Sport running board. In the F32, they won't be able to handle that. So it will be interesting to see how the running board is modified for the M Sport option.
Zeichen311 commented:
November 15, 2012, 11:31 am

On-topic: I will not vote because "no preference" is not an option. With the front and rear of the F32 masked, the remaining cues are insufficient for me to decide which I prefer. Unlike the E46 coupe, the E92 never really "grabbed" me; that may have a lot to do with why I am still neutral on the F32--it's an evolutionary revision. I don't yet see anything dramatically better, nor do I see anything offensively worse.

I don't care for the featureless rocker panel of the F32. I do like the wheels. I think the Hofmeister kink is too small, approaching vestigial, but it may work within the overall design. The F32 appears to have addressed the "heaviness" of the rear 3/4 view of the E92, looking somewhat better-balanced in the photos...need to see it unmasked to be sure. Overall, I do not see enough positive or negative points to tip the scales yet...it's just different.

(One thing's certain: If I see "sleek"/"sleeker" used a few more times to describe the F32 I may start mailing out dictionary and thesaurus excerpts. For one, find another adjective already. For another, if anything I find the F32 less sleek than the E92, based on what's visible so far.)

Off topic (and more fun ):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic_Kat View Post
OMG, don't get me started on the "Porsh" and for that matter "Beamer" thing. I almost made mortal enemies of in-laws this summer over those details.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic_Kat View Post
My curse is that I was taught correctly at the tender age of 5 that it is "Por-shuh".

Unfortunately for me, this summer our 26 year old niece tried to 'educate' me on how "hip" people pronounce Porsche.
Oh, that must have been rich. It would almost have been worth the airfare to have been invited to listen in at that table!

I usually manage to bite my tongue and simply use the correct pronunciation at every opportunity. But on the rare occasions when someone has challenged the distinction, even after being told they are mangling a person's name, I start mispronouncing their name until it sinks in. That's guaranteed fun.

(I suspect your in-laws would have thrown me out before dessert.)
JBMSPORT commented:
November 15, 2012, 12:01 pm

My Lease will be up in Oct of 2015 so it will be interesting to see what the F32 will be then but I wonderd what the N55 sucesser will be. Here's a quote from the F30 forum: "but the 435i (or 440i) may very well usher in the successor to the current N55 twin turbo inline 6 engine." I herd rumers of a 3 turbo engine. So that begs the question; Will that be a little too close in performance to the M4? At any rate I'm very pleased with my E92 for now but in 3 years I will have to part with my belovd Msport coupe. Oh well, onward and upward!
John
tim330i commented:
November 15, 2012, 12:09 pm

The triple turbo rumors were in relation to the M3/M4 but those have been debunked. The M3/M4 will be powered by an N54 derived 3 liter twin turbo inline 6. The new N55 replacement will be single turbo.

Tim
JBMSPORT commented:
November 15, 2012, 12:24 pm

Tim, please excuse a newbee but I thought the N55 is a single turbo but with 2 scrolls thus giving it the name "twin powered" (but its still a single turbo" At least that is the info I was given from my dealer. I of course differ to you sir.
John
tim330i commented:
November 15, 2012, 12:25 pm

You are correct. If I implied that the N55 was twin turbo that was not my intent.

Tim
JBMSPORT commented:
November 15, 2012, 12:35 pm

I was hoping for more HP on the 2014/15 F32. You can never get enough SEX, $$ or HP. So to stay on topic I would have to say I vote for the F32
John
WillInDenver commented:
November 15, 2012, 12:44 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lufthansa View Post
IIRC, the new coupe won't have the NA six, but a turbo 4 as the base engine. I don't do turbos and I don't do fours.
I'm not sure what you will be driving, in the entry premium segment going forward, that doesn't have either or both.

I'm reserving judgment until I see one in person. The F30, to me, looks way better that way than in any picture. The air vent surround does look a little troublesome.
Chop362 commented:
November 15, 2012, 1:35 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris328 View Post
f30 deserves the hate, and whoever designed should have gotten canned
Damn straight!! BMW though will admit to no wrong doing.
SD Z4MR commented:
November 15, 2012, 1:57 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic_Kat View Post
My curse is that I was taught correctly at the tender age of 5 that it is "Por-shuh".

Unfortunately for me, this summer our 26 year old niece tried to 'educate' me on how "hip" people pronounce Porsche. More unfortunate, is her stepmom who probably really doesn't have a clue what the difference is between a Ferarri and Ford Focus chastised me for being "pompous" for making the effort toward correct pronounciation.



(Thank you for letting me vent that among folks who understand.)
In my experience, "hip" people, that is actual Porsche owners and enthusiasts, especially those that have other vehicles besides their Porsches and especially those have have other track cars besides their track Porsches, call their cars "P-cars", as in, "Which car am I going to take to the track this weekend? Oh, I'll probably take the P-car".

Those don't usually include 26-year olds.
beden1 commented:
November 15, 2012, 2:22 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Z4MR View Post
In my experience, "hip" people, that is actual Porsche owners and enthusiasts, especially those that have other vehicles besides their Porsches and especially those have have other track cars besides their track Porsches, call their cars "P-cars", as in, "Which car am I going to take to the track this weekend? Oh, I'll probably take the P-car".

Those don't usually include 26-year olds.
I'm new to it all, but I just call my Porsche a Porsche. Also, you keep expressing the ideal that one must track their performance cars in order to qualify as worthy car owners or car enthusiasts. I don't track my cars for liability reasons, but let me assure you that I enthusiastically enjoy owning and driving my cars.
Lufthansa commented:
November 15, 2012, 3:35 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
I'm not sure what you will be driving, in the entry premium segment going forward, that doesn't have either or both.

I'm reserving judgment until I see one in person. The F30, to me, looks way better that way than in any picture. The air vent surround does look a little troublesome.
I foresee my next purchase being a Corvette - no turbo, no four.
SD Z4MR commented:
November 15, 2012, 5:56 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
I'm new to it all, but I just call my Porsche a Porsche. Also, you keep expressing the ideal that one must track their performance cars in order to qualify as worthy car owners or car enthusiasts. I don't track my cars for liability reasons, but let me assure you that I enthusiastically enjoy owning and driving my cars.
I'm not expressing that as an ideal and it's not my definition of an enthusiast. I just know lots of people who track their daily driver cars and also those who have dedicated track cars. In my experience it's these people who are the most enthusiastic about their cars, hence an "enthusiast". I'm sure that there are Prius owners who are just as enthusiastic about their cars, also "enthusiasts", but you're probably never going to see one on a track. They seem more inclined to view the "performance" of their cars by how good their mileage is. The Porsche owners in the local Porsche club, with whom we share joint Tech Sessions, are probably the most enthusiastic about the performance aspects of their cars than any other owner group that I know. Some of these people own both BMWs and Porsches. These are the people I mentioned who refer to their Porsches as P-cars.

One doesn't have to own a "performance car" to be an enthusiast, nor does one become an enthusiast by merely owning a performance car. One also doesn't have to track their "performance car" to enjoy it, although if you have a performance car and you don't track it you're missing out on an awful lot of fun. Regardless how enthusiastically you enjoy owning and driving your car, you will never fully realize the full extent of the engineering and performance of your car because you just can't legally drive that way on the street. You say that you don't track your cars for "liability reasons" but that really isn't an excuse because if you're that paranoid about driving at a track event you can buy per-event track insurance.

Let me stress, these are all my opinions and my experiences with people I know or have known. YMMV.

Our discussions are way off topic for this thread and I really don't think this is the appropriate thread for further discussion of this topic.
beden1 commented:
November 15, 2012, 6:27 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Z4MR View Post
I'm not expressing that as an ideal and it's not my definition of an enthusiast. I just know lots of people who track their daily driver cars and also those who have dedicated track cars. In my experience it's these people who are the most enthusiastic about their cars, hence an "enthusiast". I'm sure that there are Prius owners who are just as enthusiastic about their cars, also "enthusiasts", but you're probably never going to see one on a track. They seem more inclined to view the "performance" of their cars by how good their mileage is. The Porsche owners in the local Porsche club, with whom we share joint Tech Sessions, are probably the most enthusiastic about the performance aspects of their cars than any other owner group that I know. Some of these people own both BMWs and Porsches. These are the people I mentioned who refer to their Porsches as P-cars.

One doesn't have to own a "performance car" to be an enthusiast, nor does one become an enthusiast by merely owning a performance car. One also doesn't have to track their "performance car" to enjoy it, although if you have a performance car and you don't track it you're missing out on an awful lot of fun. Regardless how enthusiastically you enjoy owning and driving your car, you will never fully realize the full extent of the engineering and performance of your car because you just can't legally drive that way on the street. You say that you don't track your cars for "liability reasons" but that really isn't an excuse because if you're that paranoid about driving at a track event you can buy per-event track insurance.

Let me stress, these are all my opinions and my experiences with people I know or have known. YMMV.

Our discussions are way off topic for this thread and I really don't think this is the appropriate thread for further discussion of this topic.
I own a 911 GTS and a couple of BMWs, and fortunate to have hundreds of miles of lightly traveled roads available within minutes of my house, that wind through hilly farmlands and mountainous terrains, and where driving is exciting and pure pleasure.

I have looked into track day insurance products and they fall short of protecting me should a tragic accident occur. My umbrella coverage will not cover/protect me, and because my auto policy won't cover me, I lose the benefits of stacking the coverages from 7 vehicles that we own. In the opinion of the law firm that represents us, we would be vulnerable to law suits seeking damages well beyond the track day coverages, at least.

I have read numerous articles covering track accidents resulting in severe injuries and death, as well as damage to other cars, the track and facility. I seem to remember one involving a Porsche GT several years ago. An accident like that could financially wipe someone out. It's not worth potentially losing what has taken a lifetime to build.

At this stage in my life, I figure it's better just to enjoy my driving excursions with the top down during a beautiful day and experiencing some of the best performance ever produced, as conditions allow.
Nordic_Kat commented:
November 15, 2012, 10:17 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeichen311 View Post
Off topic (and more fun ):
Oh, that must have been rich. It would almost have been worth the airfare to have been invited to listen in at that table!

I usually manage to bite my tongue and simply use the correct pronunciation at every opportunity. But on the rare occasions when someone has challenged the distinction, even after being told they are mangling a person's name, I start mispronouncing their name until it sinks in. That's guaranteed fun.

(I suspect your in-laws would have thrown me out before dessert.)
The irony of it was we were on a train enroute from Koblenz to Frankfurt when the conversation happened. It's amazing how vehement people can be when they are totally in error.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Z4MR View Post
In my experience, "hip" people, that is actual Porsche owners and enthusiasts, especially those that have other vehicles besides their Porsches and especially those have have other track cars besides their track Porsches, call their cars "P-cars", as in, "Which car am I going to take to the track this weekend? Oh, I'll probably take the P-car".

Those don't usually include 26-year olds.
Yes, it has been my experience that every person to a letter that I've ever known who has owned or currently owns a Porsche manages to properly pronounce the formal name.

Of course, a 26 year old aspiring to owning a Cayenne isn't exactly what I would classify as a purist, and certainly doesn't fit a "track centric" definintion of enthusiast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
I'm new to it all, but I just call my Porsche a Porsche. Also, you keep expressing the ideal that one must track their performance cars in order to qualify as worthy car owners or car enthusiasts. I don't track my cars for liability reasons, but let me assure you that I enthusiastically enjoy owning and driving my cars.
I'm with you Beden. You do not have to track a car to be an enthusiast. I consider myself to be just as much an enthusiast as anyone else here because I have immersed myself in learning everything I can about the brand and about the car itself, and I have a long standing love/respect of the marque. I also love driving it especially when I can get it out on lightly traveled roads. Competition is not a prerequisite for being an enthusiast. It is absolutely no different than a claiming that photographer who chooses to not commercially sell their work or enter it in competitions is not a photographer.
chris328 commented:
November 16, 2012, 12:51 pm

if you play forza with an m3 e92 does that count?
Fravel commented:
November 16, 2012, 1:03 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by tim330i View Post
I hate to disappoint but the F32 will have a front end similar to the F30. The front grills will be wider and flatter with the headlight shaped tighten. Make no mistake the headlights will connect to the grills in a similar fashion to how the styling was done on the F30. It really grows on you, I think it looks fantastic on the F30 3 series now!

Tim
Nope... I'll admit that the m-sport F30 looks good, from the side, but that's it. If the F32 maintains the hideousness of the F30, I'll be looking for a used E92 as my next car.
SilverX3 commented:
November 17, 2012, 3:44 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris328 View Post
if you play forza with an m3 e92 does that count?
I have two M3 in PS3 GT5
Mark K commented:
November 17, 2012, 7:05 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
I have read numerous articles covering track accidents resulting in severe injuries and death, as well as damage to other cars, the track and facility. I seem to remember one involving a Porsche GT several years ago. An accident like that could financially wipe someone out. It's not worth potentially losing what has taken a lifetime to build.
No offense, but I didn't understand a word of what you just said. Jerry Seinfeld probably spends more time on a track than he does working and he is worth a pretty penny. If he's not worried, I'm sure you shouldn't be either.

Besides, why give it to them? I mean, when you seem to be afraid to do something perfectly legal because of how somebody might INTERPRET it, it makes very little difference whether that somebody is called "secret police ruled by communist party" or "lawyers". I thought this was, quote, "Home of the free and the land of the brave."
beden1 commented:
November 17, 2012, 7:12 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
No offense, but I didn't understand a word of what you just said. Jerry Seinfeld probably spends more time on a track than he does working and he is worth a pretty penny. If he's not worried, I'm sure you shouldn't be either.

Besides, why give it to them? I mean, when you seem to be afraid to do something perfectly legal because of how somebody might INTERPRET it, it makes very little difference whether that somebody is called "secret police ruled by communist party" or "lawyers". I thought this was, quote, "Home of the free and the land of the brave."
Free Country? Ideally yes, but unfortunately no in the real world. I don't know Jerry Seinfeld, but I would like to know what he's set up to mitigate personal liability.
captainaudio commented:
November 17, 2012, 9:54 pm

There are many different kinds of car enthusiasts and I do not for a minute claim that you have to track you car to be an enthusiast. That being said driving enthusiastically on the road and pushing a car to the limits on a track are very different experiences. I think the members here who got a hot lap with Simon Kirkby around Lime Rock at the Fall Foliage Run can attest to that.

CA
dtc100 commented:
November 17, 2012, 11:06 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
Free Country? Ideally yes, but unfortunately no in the real world. I don't know Jerry Seinfeld, but I would like to know what he's set up to mitigate personal liability.
Autox has little liability issue, if you do autox a few times, no one can say you are not an enthusiast
SD Z4MR commented:
November 17, 2012, 11:30 pm

Just to clarify I never said that someone who doesn't track their car isn't an enthusiast. It's just that in my experience, the people who track their cars are among the most enthusiastic owners that I've met. They have an understanding and relationship with their cars that can't be duplicated by just driving it on the street. If you truly enjoy driving your car, tracking your car adds an entirely other dimension to that enjoyment. Autocross doesn't count as tracking your car, but it will give you an understanding of the dynamics of your car that you just can't experience on the street. It seems there are some people who are awfully defensive about their decision not to autocross or track their car, claiming that driving their car on the street makes them just as much of an enthusiast. I disagree, because I believe that there are different levels of enthusiast. And I don't agree with the other analogy that was made about photography, it's just not really the same thing.

Also to clarify, tracking your car usually doesn't mean competition and I have never driven a car on the track in competition. Most non-professional enthusiasts who track their car attend a BMW CCA High Performance Driving Event which is not a competition. It is not timed and there is no contest. It is the opportunity to get your car on a track, usually with an instructor, and learn how to drive your car to the max. You learn about the proper line, turn-in, apex, and track-out points, and how to pass (always only by point by) in your own car. You learn about early apex, late apex, trail braking, left foot braking, heel-toe downshifting, and much more. Porsche Club of America (PCA) offer similar schools. In addition there are many other organizations that offer track sessions or "hot lapping". None of this involves timing or competition. There are also commercial driving schools; Skip Barber and Bob Bondurant racing schools are probably the most well known, but these are done with dedicated track cars. I took the Skip Barber 3-Day Racing School at Laguna Seca which is done in dedicated open-wheel race cars. Again, not a competition.

Those who want competition can choose from BMW or PCA club racing, or SCCA racing. This will be in your dedicated track car which has to meet stringent safety standards such as roll cages, fire extinguishers, fuel cells, nomex suites, balaclavas, and gloves, among many other requirements. This isn't just tracking your car, this is racing.

To make some proper analogies, and ones that are strictly car-related, most of us would agree that a Prius owner probably doesn't experience quite the same driving experience that we do in our BMWs, and most would agree that its a lesser experience. Someone who drives a 328i convertible, while still a BMW, is getting a different driving experience than someone who drives an M3. Someone who drives their car only on the street isn't getting nearly the same driving experience as someone who autocrosses their car. Tracking your car is another step beyond that. I'm just expanding on what captainaudio said.

But different strokes for different folks. Be content to drive your car on the street or push your limits a little and try an autocross. Go farther and take your car to the track. I would argue that doing either will make you even more enthusiastic than you are now. Everyone can make their own decisions how they define their enthusiasm for their car. IMHO, the true measure of an car enthusiast is how much they enjoy actually driving their car and hopefully, some of that would include driving it at the limit.
bear-avhistory commented:
November 18, 2012, 1:06 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
.

I have read numerous articles covering track accidents resulting in severe injuries and death, as well as damage to other cars, the track and facility. I seem to remember one involving a Porsche GT several years ago. An accident like that could financially wipe someone out. It's not worth potentially losing what has taken a lifetime to build.
Have we become this risk adverse in the 21st century? Glad I lived most of my life in the bad old days. I will be 71 years old next month & can't conceive living my life in fear of liability lawyers.
dtc100 commented:
November 18, 2012, 1:12 am

I think photography can be a good analogy. If you go beyond taking photos just because you have to, as a necessary way to fill your albums for the memories, if you go beyond that and demonstrate above average skills, you are likely an enthusiast.
dtc100 commented:
November 18, 2012, 2:04 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by bear-avhistory View Post
Have we become this risk adverse in the 21st century? Glad I lived most of my life in the bad old days. I will be 71 years old next month & can't conceive living my life in fear of liability lawyers.
Good for you, many of us can only hope.

Everyone has different risk/benefit threshold. To be relevant to the subject, companies have their risk and benefit threshold when they bring new models.

Judging by the 4 series spy photos, BMW again takes a safer approach, while trying to attract Audi and Lexus buyers. The new 4 roofline is more inline with the coupe design language of the competitions, so much that the Hofmeister kink seems a little compromised.
Nordic_Kat commented:
November 18, 2012, 8:32 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Z4MR View Post
[B]I disagree, because I believe that there are different levels of enthusiast.
Tom,
You and I are going to have to agree to disagree on a matter of semantics on this one. You see levels of enthusiasts. I see categories. The difference is levels (to me) are heirarchical, while categories are lateral.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Z4MR View Post
And I don't agree with the other analogy that was made about photography, it's just not really the same thing.
Ah, but it is, just on a different level. If you hang out any where there is turf defending among photographers there is a great war that if you don't enter your photos in competetions or you don't sell your product then you are not a "Photographer". If Ansel Adams had never published one of his photographs, would that make him any less a great photographer or enthusiast of the art? No.

Enthusiast as defined by Webster is "one who tends to give himself completely to whatever engages his interest."

By that definition the person who gives themselves completely to maintaining their BMW (e.g. ILMC) is just as much as enthusiast as Mrated//e90 (the track fiend) as is BJ, the flag bearer for Status as demonstrated by New, as is Teh Jev, the icon of the OT subforum; may he rest in peace.

To the original intent of this thread, people were asked if they were enthusiastic about the new model change. Yes, no, or indifferent - we are still equal enthusiasts no matter what drives our inspiration/interest.
dtc100 commented:
November 18, 2012, 9:16 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic_Kat View Post
Tom,
You and I are going to have to agree to disagree on a matter of semantics on this one. You see levels of enthusiasts. I see categories. The difference is levels (to me) are heirarchical, while categories are lateral.




Ah, but it is, just on a different level. If you hang out any where there is turf defending among photographers there is a great war that if you don't enter your photos in competetions or you don't sell your product then you are not a "Photographer". If Ansel Adams had never published one of his photographs, would that make him any less a great photographer or enthusiast of the art? No.

Enthusiast as defined by Webster is "one who tends to give himself completely to whatever engages his interest."

By that definition the person who gives themselves completely to maintaining their BMW (e.g. ILMC) is just as much as enthusiast as Mrated//e90 (the track fiend) as is BJ, the flag bearer for Status as demonstrated by New, as is Teh Jev, the icon of the OT subforum; may he rest in peace.

To the original intent of this thread, people were asked if they were enthusiastic about the new model change. Yes, no, or indifferent - we are still equal enthusiasts no matter what drives our inspiration/interest.
Race car drivers = Photographers.
Auto journalists = Journalists who take photos.
Auto enthusiasts = Photography enthusiasts.
Motorist/drivers = Compact digital camera carriers.
BJ = Professional grade camera carriers who don't necessarily take photos.
starbai commented:
November 26, 2012, 2:15 am

too soon to tell, but so far i'm lovin it.
Bob Shiftright commented:
November 26, 2012, 7:20 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by bear-avhistory View Post
Have we become this risk adverse in the 21st century? Glad I lived most of my life in the bad old days. I will be 71 years old next month & can't conceive living my life in fear of liability lawyers.
If this is referring to a Carrera GT track accident a few years ago, I think the car had a passenger and both driver and passenger died. I also believe the widows ended up suing everyone in sight including the track and Porsche NA. Porsche NA settled (for selling a car that was too fast?). Lawyers will be lawyers, and Porsche has deeper pockets than most owners.

When I've gone to track events, I've always needed to sign a liability waver absolving anyone and everyone of absolutely everything before even driving onto the property.

A few years ago I brought my own car in for service and gawked at a new GT3 that had kissed the Armco barrier on three corners that weekend. Obviously, collision insurance does not cover this. Liability aside, that would be my own concern, and even though I could cover the loss myself, I'd still be extremely annoyed. If I ever had the time and skills to track a car, I'd probably buy or build a dedicated track rat and expect to wreck it.
walters48 commented:
November 27, 2012, 5:19 pm

Is that Garmin custom cup holder mount available commercially?
Thanks, Chas
Chop362 commented:
November 29, 2012, 12:37 am

If you like that pregnant hood look the 4 could be the auto for you!! It should look much like the F30 minus 2 doors i'll take the E92 any day.Maybe a hood delete?
SilverX3 commented:
November 29, 2012, 3:02 am

the best looking one is still this



Deusx3 commented:
November 29, 2012, 9:20 am

I'll admit the vent on the side isn't my cup of tea, but overall it looks the part of a sports coupe more than the e92 did.