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Want an F30 that's like an E46 ZHP? Answer= BMW M Performance parts

32K views 77 replies 23 participants last post by  f30fan 
#1 ·
So it takes a few upgrades to get there with the current F30.

1) Get a Baseline/Luxury/Modern/M Sport/Sport version in 328i ($35-40K) or 335i ($42-47K) F30 trim.
2) Get the BMW M Performance struts and springs, also the f & r roll bars if you have the base/luxury/modern lines. ($1900-2500)
http://www.bmwpartspros.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=MorePartInfo&PartID=1083436&siteid=216857&catalogid=8798
328i
Front anti-roll bar #12 on list http://www.bmwpartspros.com/parts/2012/BMW/328I/?siteid=216857&vehicleid=1503580&diagram=F27A050
Rear anti-roll bar #17 on list http://www.bmwpartspros.com/parts/2012/BMW/328I/?siteid=216857&vehicleid=1503580&diagram=F27A090
335i
Confusing because there are 2 diagrams for the front and rear suspensions. Not sure which is correct.
Front #5 or #12 = http://www.bmwpartspros.com/parts/2012/BMW/335I/?siteid=216857&vehicleid=1502082&section=FRONT%20SUSPENSION
Rear #21 or #17 = http://www.bmwpartspros.com/parts/2012/BMW/335I/?siteid=216857&vehicleid=1502082&section=REAR%20SUSPENSION
3) If on a 328i, upgrade the brake calipers to the BMW M Performance package. ($1800-2500)
http://www.bmwpartspros.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=MorePartInfo&PartID=1012799&siteid=216857&catalogid=8798
4) Ditch the POS RFT with some decent rubber; Michelin PSS. ($1000)
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Super+Sport&frontTire=245YR8PSSXL&rearTire=54YR8PSSXL&vehicleSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes&autoMake=BMW&autoYear=2013&autoModel=328i%20Sedan&autoModClar=M%20Sport%20Line%20Staggered%20Tires

Total damage= $4-5k, around the same price as the ZHP package.

BMW M Performance is also working on a power package for the 2.0L T petrol version so gets you close to a 135i experience in F30 trim; power-wise.
http://www.egmcartech.com/2012/10/02/2012-paris-report-bmw-unveils-m-performance-packages-for-europes-1-3-and-5-series/

Does this look about right?
 
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#2 ·
As a former ZHP owner I think it is really hard to come close to the special magic of the old ZHP. I still regret selling mine. IMHO the best way to get an F30 close to the ZHP is to buy a 335i with standard m sport suspension and 6MT. Start with that and see how it feels. It has been a while since I owned my ZHP, but, from what I can remember, the feel is similar. I would try this before I changed out any suspension bits as you might find that change not necessary. Agree with you on getting the PSS tires.
 
#54 ·
As a former e46 ZHP owner, my biggest regret is parting with that car. It did almost everything right. The e90 and F30 cannot compare in any setup. The 335i may be faster straightline and they may even do a track time that's seconds faster but that e46 felt special from the moment you turned the key. There's no sense of special with the 335i (in either e90 or F30 form).
 
#50 ·
Why? The sport suspension is the same. I drove an E46M3 for 6 years. I didn't get the DHP because I would always be in Sports mode anyway. I'm quite happy with the F30 suspension.
 
#4 · (Edited)
#6 ·
People are seriously overrating the E46 ZHP. A 328i with the sport suspension, 6MT and all-season run flat tires (!) put up the same 0-60 time and better lateral grip than the old 330i ZHP on staggered summer tires.

http://media.caranddriver.com/files...ts-vs-2012-bmw-328i-sedan-comparison-test.pdf
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/bmw-330i-with-performance-package-road-test

A 335i 6MT DHP with summer tires would kill the old ZHP.
Did you own a ZHP? The car was way more than the sum of its parts and way more than 0-60 times. I cannot put it into words. You had to own one to understand. I have owned M3's and still say my old ZHP was one of the best BMW's to ever grace my garage. The only other modern BMW I have seen to develop this level of cult following is the 1 series M coupe.
 
#8 ·
I would probably go for standard M sport suspension and pass on the DHP. If that was insufficient then I would modify the M sport suspension. Electric aids do not feel the same as a true sport suspension and for the best feel the true sport suspension is my preference.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Not sure if you guys read the link for the BMW M Performance requirements but the DHP needs to be turned off if you have this new suspension upgrade put on. Just goes to show that the DHP is not what you would want if you need an M type suspension system.

I guess I should give a little background as to why I put this thread up. I've test driven both F30s in 328i AT and 335i 6MT w/DHP trims but was thoroughly unimpressed and even disappointed. As a current E46 ZHP owner for the last 4 1/2 years, I was highly looking forward to upgrade to the F30. Unfortunately, after all these test drives, I was going to wait for the M Sport or equivalent upgrade, as I wanted a car as close to my ZHP as possible. Then as others in the thread have pointed out, the M Sport package was mostly cosmetic with the only real performance upgrade being the brake pads, sigh :(.

On the DHP, as I've posted in the other threads, I felt that I could out drive the suspension and it caused a 1/2 second delay before the suspension would settle or adapt to my driving technique changes. Definitely something I don't have to worry about on the E46 ZHP or any E9x models I've driven before (330i, 335i, 328i, 325i).

As Alpine300ZHP has pointed out, the sum of the ZHP package is more than the raw numbers or equivalent E9x version specs. Most people will not understand this unless you've actually owned it. BMW got it completely dialed in as far as a balance in precision for steering (12.5:1 [yes that is the smallest ratio similar to a Miata on any BMW, beats any DHP type adaptive steering all day]), suspension (originally Sachs shocks/struts, I've since improved by upgrading to Koni yellows. It also had springs that were stiffer and lower [1/2 inch or 40mm], similar to the sport equipped E46), braking, driving dynamics, comfort. It wasn't as harsh & raw as an E46 or E9x M3 but was not as underpowered or anemic in the power & suspension department as a sport E46. It also wasn't as overly too stiff and unrefined as the E9x equivalents that replaced it 06 330i or 07-2011 328i. The E9x 330i Sport from 06 was probably the closest thing but unfortunately, with the E9x gain in length & slight amount of weight the driving dynamics were not equivalent. Just a correction, the E46 ZHP's weight was 3280 lbs.
 
#12 ·
Not sure if you guys read the link for the BMW M Performance requirements but the DHP needs to be turned off if you have this new suspension upgrade put on. Just goes to show that the DHP is not what you would want if you need an M type suspension system.

I guess I should give a little background as to why I put this thread up. I've test driven both F30s in 328i AT and 335i 6MT w/DHP trims but was thoroughly unimpressed and even disappointed. As a current E46 ZHP owner for the last 4 1/2 years, I was highly looking forward to upgrade to the F30. Unfortunately, after all these test drives, I was going to wait for the M Sport or equivalent upgrade, as I wanted a car as close to my ZHP as possible. Then as others in the thread have pointed out, the M Sport package was mostly cosmetic with the only real performance upgrade being the brake pads, sigh :(.

On the DHP, as I've posted in the other threads, I felt that I could out drive the suspension and it caused a 1/2 second delay before the suspension would settle or adapt to my driving technique changes. Definitely something I don't have to worry about on the E46 ZHP or any E9x models I've driven before (330i, 335i, 328i, 325i).

As Alpine300ZHP has pointed out, the sum of the ZHP package is more than the raw numbers or equivalent E9x version specs. Most people will not understand this unless you've actually owned it. BMW got it completely dialed in as far as a balance in precision for suspension, braking, driving dynamics, comfort. It wasn't as harsh & raw as an E46 or E9x M3 but was not as underpowered or anemic in the power & suspension department as a sport E46. It also wasn't as overly too stiff and unrefined as the E9x equivalents that replaced it 06 330i or 07-2011 328i. The E9x 330i Sport from 06 was probably the closest thing but unfortunately, with the E9x gain in length & slight amount of weight the driving dynamics were not equivalent. Just a correction, the E46 ZHP's weight was 3280 lbs.
As a former ZHP owner I can understand what you are saying. Finding a replacement is going to be tough...I never could. I can only guess that a heavily modified F30 might be able to come close to the ZHP, but BMW does not currently make anything from the factory that fits what you want. I am interested to see what you end up getting. If I can think of ANY car that comes close to the ZHP that is still being built it would be the 335is coupe. It is the only BMW out there that comes close from the factory IMHO. Question is if or not a coupe will work for you.
 
#18 ·
Leaning towards a 328i sport + M performance suspension, brake & power upgrades. Should put me under $50k with a car that isn't as nose heavy as the 335i. If the chip unlocks 20-30 hp/trq that is a perfect balance for the 3400lbs chassis.
I had a loaner 335 this week. Trust me, that's a good game plan.

The 335 is not the end all be all it's stated to be sometimes.

I had no remorse when I gave the car back.
 
#23 ·
Hm... Not sure what I missed, but several years ago I was looking for used e46 330 or e90 330/328/325. I needed a sedan replacement for my coupe that was dd / family / autocross car.

I was lucky and found used ZHP with only 25k miles nearby. Several E90s I test drove had comparable mileages.

And... I probably expected too much from that ZHP. Too soft per my taste. Best thing I liked about that car was its sound. Don't get me wrong, the car was good, but I didn't find anything very special about it.

I liked e90 more. Ended up buying new 328 zsp as it was not easy to find used one with specs I wanted. The sound of my e90 is a little boring compared to ZHP, but rest of the things suit me better.

Unless I missed something.

The coupe I had before was Honda Prelude. I never planned to buy one. I test drove one just because I had no plans for the evening and was offered a test drive. I ended up trading in my one year old car that day and buying the Prelude.

So maybe I expected some similar experience from ZHP test drive as well, but that did not happen.
 
#24 ·
Hm... Not sure what I missed, but several years ago I was looking for used e46 330 or e90 330/328/325. I needed a sedan replacement for my coupe that was dd / family / autocross car.

I was lucky and found used ZHP with only 25k miles nearby. Several E90s I test drove had comparable mileages.

And... I probably expected too much from that ZHP. Too soft per my taste. Best thing I liked about that car was its sound. Don't get me wrong, the car was good, but I didn't find anything very special about it.

I liked e90 more. Ended up buying new 328 zsp as it was not easy to find used one with specs I wanted. The sound of my e90 is a little boring compared to ZHP, but rest of the things suit me better.

Unless I missed something.

The coupe I had before was Honda Prelude. I never planned to buy one. I test drove one just because I had no plans for the evening and was offered a test drive. I ended up trading in my one year old car that day and buying the Prelude.

So maybe I expected some similar experience from ZHP test drive as well, but that did not happen.
Test drive an F30 to make sense of this thread :)
 
#25 ·
Surprised no one has mentioned the most key ingredient to an F30 ZHP, a Performance Exhaust. That's the best part of my ZHP.

I could build a ZHP out of an F30, but it would cost like $60 grand, and still not have any steering feel. I don't see the point, ZHPs aren't falling apart, I'm just gonna keep driving mine til it is starting to fall apart, and by then maybe look at a 2 series sedan.
 
#26 ·
Surprised no one has mentioned the most key ingredient to an F30 ZHP, a Performance Exhaust. That's the best part of my ZHP.

I could build a ZHP out of an F30, but it would cost like $60 grand, and still not have any steering feel. I don't see the point, ZHPs aren't falling apart, I'm just gonna keep driving mine til it is starting to fall apart, and by then maybe look at a 2 series sedan.
wrong.
 
#29 ·
Of course you can compare them. NA sixes sound good, turbo 4s sound bad.

You can tout the advantages of a turbo 4 all day, but the disadvantage is they sound like crap.
 
#36 · (Edited)
IMHO, the F30 doesn't need an exhaust plus most of the new good ones aren't out yet. Ask Jamesonsviggen, his 328i was the test bed for the Rogue Engineering one coming out in Jan 2013. The dyno numbers were promising. F30 owners don't bash the ZHP owners as the goal is the same, to have a drivers car- DD, track, auto-x that is sharp as a razor but refined for everyday life; no compromises. ZHP owners don't bash the F30 unless you've actually driven it- 328i & 335i trims. The N20 has huge potential for a 2.0T 4 cylinder and it's more refined than the Subaru or Mitsu versions.
 
#40 · (Edited)
So I have an F30 Luxury line with the base suspension. I'm finding the body roll annoying and would like to firm things up a bit.

If I invest in some of these M Performance parts, will that keep my comfortable suspension and tighten up the body roll or will this in effect turn my car into a Sport line model with a very harsh suspension?

I guess there are now 4 non-adaptive suspensions. Can you or anyone else please clarify what the feeling differences are in regards to handling and body roll?

1. Standard suspension.
2. Sport suspension.
3. XDrive suspension.
4. M Performance suspension.

We assume that the standard suspension is the softest. But is it? Is the XDrive suspension softer than the Standard? The M Performance suspension firmer than the Sport suspension? Would be helpful to know what the baseline differences are between the suspensions. Ultimately I'd like to talk things out, but don't want to make a mistake. My E90 M Sport was way too harsh, I really like the F30 suspension but it could be a bit tighter.

BJ
 
#42 · (Edited)
Your best upgrade would be the sport/m-sport thicker anti-roll bars. Best way to eliminate body roll while keeping your stock suspension.

If you want less rebound/bounce then stiffer M perf shocks/struts are the way to go. It will also settle the suspension faster after taking a bump to allow the driver better steering control.

With stiffer and lowered springs that should add to less rebound/bounce along with a lower center of gravity to allow better rotation and response from the chassis. It will also decrease chassis flex by a minimal amount.
 
#53 ·
Updated part #s, thanks from Shivaswrath and BananaChipz of the F30 forum.

For 328i/335i Base, Luxury, and Modern:
You need the Strut Kit = 33502320981 - http://www.bmwpartspros.com/partloca...subcat3=193424 $1500 list, online for $1100-1200
Spring kit = front: 31336860630, rear: 33536860621, Approx $200-400
M SPORT Front and Rear Anti Roll Bars= F- 31356792125 & R- 33556853474, Approx $200-300

FOR 328i/335i M-SPORT/SPORT owners:
You need the Strut Kit = 33502320981 - http://www.bmwpartspros.com/partloca...subcat3=193424 $1500 list, online for $1100-1200
Spring Kit = front: 31336860630, rear: 33536860621, Approx $200-400
Front Sway bar for 335i: 31-35-6-792-119

Brake upgrade:
Brake kit = 34112221445 - http://www.bmwpartspros.com/partloca...subcat3=184149
Rear Brake Rotors= 34206797598
 
#55 ·
Though I've only done a spirited test drive of the F30 Sport, I comfortably ordered an F30 M-spec 6MT. Sport would suffice too...I just don't like the current lineup of colors. I remember (barely) what my ZHP was like stock and the F30 beats it. Yes the steering ratio is a little less, but nothing dramatic IMO. People should remember what a difference just tires and sways make, which are probably the first upgrade ZHP owners make.

The F30 has a lot of potential and the aftermarket will address any of the major concerns.
 
#56 ·
I agree on the sways but the ZHP came with Michelin PS2s which were and are still some of the best tires in the industry. Unless you go R compound they don't have much better tire upgrade options.

Sadly the new F30s don't ship with the RFT PS2s due to the low treadware so you will be upgrading on these newer models.
 
#59 ·
Brakes are lacking due to pads and tires. MSport pads are better. The rest of the f30 brake hardware is up to snuff. The crappy mag numbers are from the low rolling resistance tires and low dust pads. MSport pads give bite but trade low dust for tons of dust.
 
#64 ·
I had eibachs on a variety of cars with a variety of struts. I was always happy. Only had a bad experience with H&Rs and Intrax(shop called them strut killers lol).
 
#66 · (Edited)
In the future any car I buy is going to be exactly what I want when I drive it off the dealer's lot.
I am not interested in re-engineering a suspension.
Been there, done that.

CA
 
#73 ·
This page is very useful, thanks. I got a base 328i and am thinking along similar lines.

However, I have a question: the base 328i comes with 17" tires. Is it good enough to replace the stock RTFs with Michelin 17"s (ignoring looks), or is a wheel size upgrade needed to get good handling?
 
#75 · (Edited)
Thanks, James. I should have elaborated my question more.

I noticed, the Michelines that OP linked to has only a square setup in 17".

So is it better to (one of these):
a) Upgrade wheels + tyres (18 or 19" with Michelins?), keep stock suspension?
b) Upgrade suspension to m-performance, keep stock wheels + tyres
c) Upgrade nothing (meaning a or b without the other is not worth it - if that is true?)

I do understand a+b is the best ideally, but wondering which is the better tradeoff (especially for eliminating body roll and dive as much as possible) with limited $$.
 
#77 ·
Thanks, James. I should have elaborated my question more.

I noticed, the Michelines that OP linked to has only a square setup in 17".

So is it better to (one of these):
a) Upgrade wheels + tyres (18 or 19" with Michelins?), keep stock suspension?
b) Upgrade suspension to m-performance, keep stock wheels + tyres
c) Upgrade nothing (meaning a or b without the other is not worth it - if that is true?)

I do understand a+b is the best ideally, but wondering which is the better tradeoff (especially for eliminating body roll and dive as much as possible) with limited $$.
Tires/wheels are the biggest impact on performance. But not so much body roll, that requires suspension. But they kind of take advantage of one another.
 
#76 · (Edited)
I just said the exact same thing in another thread. M Performance parts completely transform the car, in a very big way. The car turns in sharper, holds corners tighter, and you feedback is given an overall boost as well. It becomes what the car should of been out of the factory.
 
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