Reedo302 commented:
January 8, 2013, 1:13 am
I have looked at the ATS, and I am fine with the design. I don't find it to be some amazingly beautiful car, but it's not hideous either. The issue I have with the modern Cadillacs is that it seems like they took pictures of an F117 stealth fighter bomber and said "Hey, let's make it look like that!". They basically took a giant clay mould and chopped a bunch of edges and off-angle lines into it, then put it into production. I look at the ATS, as well as the CTS and STS and wonder if the purpose is to defeat surface to air missiles.
In all seriousness, I just see no soul in the design of the Cadillacs. If you ever watch the BMW specials on TV about how they do their designs and develop everything from the look of the headlights to the sound the doors make when open, you see that they put extensive thought into everything. They really espouse the concept of driving passion. I don't get that feeling from Cadillac. Now granted, I'm not a huge Bangle fan, and the new de-Bangled stuff looks absolutely amazing. BUT, I still found some beauty in what was produced under the Bangle design. I'd take a Cadillac over anything else GM produces, but only because I would have to.
I have a lot of problems with Cadillac, but it's because it's an American brand. I don't care about the history, I care about what I know of American cars. My 1999 M Coupe interior was in better shape in 2010 than the interior of my 2003 Chevy Suburban was in 2005. American cars have had very poor quality interior build quality, and the quality of trim parts, buttons, latches and whatnot has always been relatively cheap. For a long time, they've all looked like they were made by Tyco Toys. Now interiors are getting better, but I have yet to see anything that reassures me that American build quality is any near to being in the ballpark of German build quality. I don't care what technology Cadillac puts into the car, what matters is how that technology fares 5-6 years from now when I'm knocking on the 100,000 mile threshold. Creaks? Squeaks? Rattles? Not only that, but American cars, in my experience, do not stand up well to hard use. The harder I drove my Bimmers, the more reliable they were. Every American or Japanese car I've owned has had progressive issues with hard use.
Then there's the issue of GM needing a government bailout, and the fact that I despise the UAW, and I can't bring myself to buy a Cadillac.
November 27, 2012, 11:39 pm
Thanks. Just what we need to make this forum a more pleasant place to spend time.
November 27, 2012, 11:53 pm
I'm in early, and I say it doesn't matter. The ATS target market is the BMW 3 series target market minus the people who just don't want a Cadillac, which leaves a smaller buyer group than BMW will worry about. They have a much larger problem with Audi.
GM is doing some great work with the Cadillac products right now. In my opinion, they should have rolled out a new brand marque for these very good cars, as the Cadillac name removes value from what they are trying to do in the market. Just sayin'.
November 28, 2012, 12:47 am
Cadillac is a rebadged Chevy.
November 28, 2012, 2:28 am
November 28, 2012, 3:06 am
November 28, 2012, 6:10 am
GM is doing some great work with the Cadillac products right now. In my opinion, they should have rolled out a new brand marque for these very good cars, as the Cadillac name removes value from what they are trying to do in the market. Just sayin'.
November 28, 2012, 7:34 am
guys, I'm not an F30 owner but frequent this section (only to watch the BJ debates - keep em going they're great
as to the post above, sure Cadillac has its place in history and should be appreciated but BMW engines powered the Luftwaffe that bombed half of Britain but we buy their cars and then some. Speaks volumes to the respective products.
ok, I'll leave now and go back to the E39 forums but will be joining the F10 folks in a couple of months.
rock on
November 28, 2012, 10:26 am
"The ATS is the first Cadillac built specifically to take on the BMW 3 series". In other words, copy it and try to improve on it. And still, it comes up a little short. It's proactive vs reactive.....again. Sure the ATS is a good car, but it just doesn't inspire the passion. It's still missing the "It" factor that all copies lack.
November 28, 2012, 10:29 am
BJ
November 28, 2012, 10:30 am
I haven't asked them if they'd buy a Cadillac though.
November 28, 2012, 10:30 am
you can put a cadillac emblem on a ferrari and it would still cary the stigma
November 28, 2012, 10:31 am
It failed cause it was a half-assed effort.
November 28, 2012, 10:57 am
November 28, 2012, 11:24 am
I don't know when some of you BMW fans will start to call the BMW own test driver an idiot, because even he seemed to agree the ATS 3.6, although not as good as the F30 335i in straight line performance, was better on the curves and at the corners.
One thing I found it alarming is, it actually proved BJ's point again, our own BMW test driver did not even know ATS existed, he had to Google it to find out
November 28, 2012, 11:39 am
November 28, 2012, 11:46 am
November 28, 2012, 11:52 am
One thing I found it alarming is, it actually proved BJ's point again, our own BMW test driver did not even know ATS existed, he had to Google it to find out
This was far, far from an unbiased "review". They referred to Chris Hennecy as a current or former BMW owner (I also read the print version of the review), a member of the BMW CCA, and an SCCA member as if his profession is racing. One small detail they left out is that he is a little more than just a member of the BMW CCA. He is the head of BMW CCA marketing. His profession isn't racing. He has a master's degree in marketing and that is his profession.
November 28, 2012, 12:05 pm
This was far, far from an unbiased "review". They referred to Chris Hennecy as a current or former BMW owner (I also read the print version of the review), a member of the BMW CCA, and an SCCA member as if his profession is racing. One small detail they left out is that he is a little more than just a member of the BMW CCA. He is the head of BMW CCA marketing. His profession isn't racing. He has a master's degree in marketing and that is his profession.
However the conclusion of the review, as that Yahoo reviewer said, was that the ATS was better at the curves, although not at straight, therefore I assumed the BMW guy seemed to agree (he certainly nodded when the guy was talking)
Clearly having more fun at the curves and corners was why both of them agreed, although the ATS came a bit short, it was a good first attempt.
November 28, 2012, 12:07 pm
Clearly having more fun at the curves and corners was why both of them agreed, although the ATS came a bit short, it was a good first attempt.
What do you expect him to say if he works for BMW?
November 28, 2012, 12:25 pm
What do you expect him to say if he works for BMW?
November 28, 2012, 12:30 pm
What do you expect him to say if he works for BMW?
November 28, 2012, 2:23 pm
If the ATS had been available in the market when I ordered my F30 I would have at least considered it.
I actually believe that GM engineers very good vehicles and the work being done at Cadillac is impressive.
My biggest gripe with Caddy is the 'old man' image as well as the interior that looks like it belongs in a Neon, not a $45K+ luxury sedan.
November 28, 2012, 3:01 pm
November 28, 2012, 6:32 pm
This is getting ridiculous now. It's as if the 3 series is the ONLY car that this ATS is even comparable to. I remember when the G37 coupe came out, it wasn't this bad. These journalists make GM seem as if they are desparate. All this is doing is making the 3 series look that much better. The only car in this segment any car company has to make a car better than is the 3 series. Really? This ATS wil be forgotten in 2 years.
November 28, 2012, 6:38 pm
imitation is the sincerest form flattery
November 29, 2012, 11:56 am
The ATS dose not imitate the current 3, rather the one two generations ago, and the imitation is limited to the chassis for the most part. So far most reviews seem to like that part of attempt.
The other aspect of it, the body style and gadgetry are distinctly unique or cutting edge, so much so they are risky. People either love or hate them.
I think it is a welcome effort in today's play safe, blend in kind of environment. The world advances not because the mass conforms to the norm, but because there are always a few rebels who want to stir things up.
November 29, 2012, 12:56 pm
I don't know if the G35 caused this level of angst in the 3er world. Probably not. Internet forums were still pretty much in their infancy then. Bimmerfest was only a year or so old. But, in the automotive press the speculation about whether it could topple King 3 was certainly all the buzz.
But, Infiniti couldn't keep their focus and by the time the next iteration of the G came around the G had become another "also ran". That could certainly easily happen to the ATS. Infiniti certainly had a lot less baggage than Caddy does and a better reputation (though short) of actually building successful sport sedans, the original Q45 and J30.
With all this gnashing of teeth over the ATS and the 3er it is worth noting that Cadillac has made a very public point of the fact that the 3er was their benchmark, NOT the A4, NOT the C Class, Not the G, NOT th IS. In fact the 3er is everyone's benchmark in this class.
November 29, 2012, 1:00 pm
But, Infiniti couldn't keep their focus and by the time the next iteration of the G came around the G had become another "also ran". That could certainly easily happen to the ATS. Infiniti certainly had a lot less baggage than Caddy does and a better reputation (though short) of actually building successful sport sedans, the original Q45 and J30.
With all this gnashing of teeth over the ATS and the 3er it is worth noting that Cadillac has made a very public point of the fact that the 3er was their benchmark, NOT the A4, NOT the C Class, Not the G, NOT th IS. In fact the 3er is everyone's benchmark in this class.
November 29, 2012, 1:16 pm
The Honda Accord is further down the path. For years, decades, it has been the benchmark family economy sedan. It probably still is, but just barely as there are any number of competing offerings now that most people would agree are just as good or better.
Speaking of the G, boy has Infiniti waited a long time to redesign that. I'm actually pretty interested to see what they do with it next. Based on the number of them I see driving here and there, it did a lot more damage to the 3's dominance than I expect the ATS will.
November 29, 2012, 1:30 pm
The Honda Accord is further down the path. For years, decades, it has been the benchmark family economy sedan. It probably still is, but just barely as there are any number of competing offerings now that most people would agree are just as good or better.
Speaking of the G, boy has Infiniti waited a long time to redesign that. I'm actually pretty interested to see what they do with it next. Based on the number of them I see driving here and there, it did a lot more damage to the 3's dominance than I expect the ATS will.
One of the myriad challenges BMW is up against (not the least of which are the changing demands of the market segment) is that automotive performance design and technology is approaching its peak and experiencing the point of diminishing returns. In addition, economies of scale are making all these automotive advancements, many of which BMW pioneered (in car communication technology, vehicle safety and performance enhancing systems, and many others) available to the mass market, no longer limited to the initial innovators. In many ways BMW is becoming a victim of its own success.
November 29, 2012, 1:52 pm
It would be nice to see an objective review that doesn't involve anybody from the respective car companies or any association at all.
Having driven the E46 and E9x variants the E9x chassis is noticeably stiffer than the E46.
November 29, 2012, 2:07 pm
One of the myriad challenges BMW is up against (not the least of which are the changing demands of the market segment) is that automotive performance design and technology is approaching its peak and experiencing the point of diminishing returns. In addition, economies of scale are making all these automotive advancements, many of which BMW pioneered (in car communication technology, vehicle safety and performance enhancing systems, and many others) available to the mass market, no longer limited to the initial innovators. In many ways BMW is becoming a victim of its own success.
(I'm just like the guys who wonder how Joe Lewis in his prime would have done against Tyson in his. We'll never know.)
November 29, 2012, 4:12 pm
For this reason I said to myself a few years back BMW should reserve the 9 series name for something this generation has not seen. If one day all of a sudden a car company designs a breakthrough in automotive design, technology, performance, flight, or whatever we should move into that direction bringing a piece of history along (in the name).
They can call the rest of the cars whatever they want after that.
This does make me wonder if the other brands Rolls and Mini will have to move more upscale and downscale so BMW can widen its gap to continue on its past success.. It's hard to see Rolls getting more upscale.
November 29, 2012, 4:15 pm
(I'm just like the guys who wonder how Joe Lewis in his prime would have done against Tyson in his. We'll never know.)
November 29, 2012, 4:17 pm
For this reason I said to myself a few years back BMW should reserve the 9 series name for something this generation has not seen. If one day all of a sudden a car company designs a breakthrough in automotive design, technology, performance, flight, or whatever we should move into that direction bringing a piece of history along (in the name).
They can call the rest of the cars whatever they want after that.
This does make me wonder if the other brands Rolls and Mini will have to move more upscale and downscale so BMW can widen its gap to continue on its past success.. It's hard to see Rolls getting more upscale.
November 29, 2012, 5:09 pm
(I'm just like the guys who wonder how Joe Lewis in his prime would have done against Tyson in his. We'll never know.)
We went from the GS to a ES 350 because this car, at least does one thing right, it's quiet and comfy, the way a Lexus should be at a cost of considerably less.
The lease will mature in Feb on the Lexus ES350 and I am presently negotiating on a F30 lease.
If I don't get a good deal on a 328i with all the toys that I want, it will be back to the new boring Lexus.
November 29, 2012, 5:17 pm
I'm single, living in California. I'm not driving up in a Cadillac. I'm just not.
November 29, 2012, 5:27 pm
November 29, 2012, 5:45 pm
See, the ATS isn't a "Cadillac". It's a sports car. It's an enthusiasts dream. It's the E46 reborn. They made it just for you. Don't tell me that you won't give it a chance because the brand is associated with 70 year old grandfathers. Don't tell me the comparo's in the magazines aren't making a difference. I don't want to hear it. I won't hear it.
BJ
November 29, 2012, 7:39 pm
November 29, 2012, 8:31 pm
November 29, 2012, 8:44 pm
That's cool, some dudes are into that kind of thing.
BJ
January 1, 2013, 1:10 pm
Any copy or substitution I would consider if price is less, but it's not the case with ATS, not cosiderably. In addition uknown resale or residual vaule. So why bother? I don't have extra cash to burn experimenting with something like new ATS or IS300 in the past. From this simple view, I don't care about ATS, G8, Genesis, Kizashi and so on.
January 1, 2013, 1:12 pm
ATS is a very capable car, and you don't have to worry about resale/residual.... just do what most do here and lease it. If you aren't impressed at lease end then hand the dealer the keys and walk off to your next ride. Effectively your residual is locked in and protected in a lease, so you can consider it a "try before you buy" option.
I would have considered the ATS if it had been available when I ordered my 328xi, but the interior styling is somewhat polarizing to me and might have swayed me to avoid it... but I would have test driven it, by all measures it is a very good vehicle.
January 1, 2013, 8:53 pm
Although the car relatively pricey, the ATS lease rates I saw are aggressive. I don't see them winning significant ground, but Caddy is really trying.
January 1, 2013, 8:57 pm
The only ATS rates I have seen advertised is for the base 2.5L car. The 2.5 is rental car fodder. It allows value shoppers to see the low price and step into the door. If they want to snag you E90 guys, the 2.5L is not going to do it. All this hatred for the N20, yeah, go drive an NA 4 cylinder ATS and comfort yourself in the slightly better steering.
I love how dealers get it wrong and say the 2.5L is a 6 cylinder lol.
January 7, 2013, 6:01 am
The ATS is really nice. I could see myself having one. The only problem for GM is that I still prefer the BMW 3 series over it.
January 7, 2013, 6:24 am
I live in yurop, so I don't really get the fuss about the ATS here, but I think you guys are discussing the wrong aspects of the car(s).
the single most important reason why you should (not) buy an ATS :
IT IS HIDEOUS!!!!
January 7, 2013, 7:45 am
the single most important reason why you should buy an ATS :
IT IS GORGEOUS!!!!
All kidding aside, exterior styling (IMO ofcourse) is one the best attributes of the ATS.
January 7, 2013, 8:28 am
All kidding aside, exterior styling (IMO ofcourse) is one the best attributes of the ATS.
BJ
January 7, 2013, 8:44 am
BJ
January 7, 2013, 10:57 am
I love how dealers get it wrong and say the 2.5L is a 6 cylinder lol.
I don't think the ATS is a beauty, but it isn't bad. I agree the F30 is too bloated not necessarily because of the bigger size than before, but the front hood and bumper design. The good thing though you can order the m-sport to change the look.
The ATS does not have such sporty option yet. To take on 3 series in this segment, they need to offer more choices.
January 7, 2013, 11:01 am
I don't think the ATS is a beauty, but it isn't bad. I agree the F30 is too bloated not necessarily because of the bigger size than before, but the front hood and bumper design. The good thing though you can order the m-sport to change the look.
The ATS does not have such sporty option yet. To take on 3 series in this segment, they need to offer more choices.
January 7, 2013, 1:56 pm
It was for a base 2.0T auto, the 2.0T with manual will cost less, and comes with LSD standard for manual only.
January 7, 2013, 2:10 pm
I finally saw one of these on the road the other day. If I HAD to own a Cadillac, it would probably be the ATS.
But, only if I had to.
January 7, 2013, 2:10 pm
The ATS has that seriously overused composition/design rule of 1/3rd window and 2/3rd body panel at the rear. I find all car designs strictly following that rule unattractive to hideous, not to mention functionally compromised by poor rear and rear-side visibility. BMW and Audi have not fallen for that stupid fad. To me, that says something about their design philosophies.
January 7, 2013, 2:48 pm
January 7, 2013, 3:35 pm
January 7, 2013, 3:54 pm
It was for a base 2.0T auto, the 2.0T with manual will cost less, and comes with LSD standard for manual only.
Maybe they are amping things up for the new year, it's also AutoShow time in Detroit.
January 7, 2013, 4:05 pm
Maybe they are amping things up for the new year, it's also AutoShow time in Detroit.
http://www.cadillac.com/tools/curren...d%20your%20own
January 7, 2013, 4:47 pm
January 7, 2013, 4:52 pm
BJ
Lots of hearses are Caddys
January 7, 2013, 5:12 pm
http://www.cadillac.com/tools/curren...d%20your%20own
That $299 is based on an MSRP of $35k. BMW seems to not want to play that game lol. I have not seen an lease based on an MSRP of under $40k.
I sure would have been tempted by an ATS 6mt 2.0T for $299 a month. They could not put me into a Buick GS which I tested for under $400.
I built a base 2.0T with heated seats, security and moonroof. Has a nice MSRP of $36.500. It does not mirror my M-Sport in equipment, but I like the price.
When I got a closer match to my M-Sport I added the performance model and had an MSRP of $44.350, a grand more. But it does have Brembos and an LSD. A lot of buyers do not know what either of those things are lol.
January 7, 2013, 8:38 pm
That $299 is based on an MSRP of $35k. BMW seems to not want to play that game lol. I have not seen an lease based on an MSRP of under $40k.
I sure would have been tempted by an ATS 6mt 2.0T for $299 a month. They could not put me into a Buick GS which I tested for under $400.
I built a base 2.0T with heated seats, security and moonroof. Has a nice MSRP of $36.500. It does not mirror my M-Sport in equipment, but I like the price.
When I got a closer match to my M-Sport I added the performance model and had an MSRP of $44.350, a grand more. But it does have Brembos and an LSD. A lot of buyers do not know what either of those things are lol.
January 7, 2013, 9:14 pm
January 7, 2013, 11:19 pm
January 7, 2013, 11:24 pm
Lots of hearses are Caddys
I'll take the final ride in this methinks.
BJ
January 7, 2013, 11:34 pm
January 8, 2013, 12:31 am
January 8, 2013, 12:39 am
Chevy is a rebadged Cadillac.
January 8, 2013, 1:13 am
I have looked at the ATS, and I am fine with the design. I don't find it to be some amazingly beautiful car, but it's not hideous either. The issue I have with the modern Cadillacs is that it seems like they took pictures of an F117 stealth fighter bomber and said "Hey, let's make it look like that!". They basically took a giant clay mould and chopped a bunch of edges and off-angle lines into it, then put it into production. I look at the ATS, as well as the CTS and STS and wonder if the purpose is to defeat surface to air missiles.
In all seriousness, I just see no soul in the design of the Cadillacs. If you ever watch the BMW specials on TV about how they do their designs and develop everything from the look of the headlights to the sound the doors make when open, you see that they put extensive thought into everything. They really espouse the concept of driving passion. I don't get that feeling from Cadillac. Now granted, I'm not a huge Bangle fan, and the new de-Bangled stuff looks absolutely amazing. BUT, I still found some beauty in what was produced under the Bangle design. I'd take a Cadillac over anything else GM produces, but only because I would have to.
I have a lot of problems with Cadillac, but it's because it's an American brand. I don't care about the history, I care about what I know of American cars. My 1999 M Coupe interior was in better shape in 2010 than the interior of my 2003 Chevy Suburban was in 2005. American cars have had very poor quality interior build quality, and the quality of trim parts, buttons, latches and whatnot has always been relatively cheap. For a long time, they've all looked like they were made by Tyco Toys. Now interiors are getting better, but I have yet to see anything that reassures me that American build quality is any near to being in the ballpark of German build quality. I don't care what technology Cadillac puts into the car, what matters is how that technology fares 5-6 years from now when I'm knocking on the 100,000 mile threshold. Creaks? Squeaks? Rattles? Not only that, but American cars, in my experience, do not stand up well to hard use. The harder I drove my Bimmers, the more reliable they were. Every American or Japanese car I've owned has had progressive issues with hard use.
Then there's the issue of GM needing a government bailout, and the fact that I despise the UAW, and I can't bring myself to buy a Cadillac.
January 8, 2013, 7:43 am
In all seriousness, I just see no soul in the design of the Cadillacs. If you ever watch the BMW specials on TV about how they do their designs and develop everything from the look of the headlights to the sound the doors make when open, you see that they put extensive thought into everything. They really espouse the concept of driving passion. I don't get that feeling from Cadillac. Now granted, I'm not a huge Bangle fan, and the new de-Bangled stuff looks absolutely amazing. BUT, I still found some beauty in what was produced under the Bangle design. I'd take a Cadillac over anything else GM produces, but only because I would have to.
I have a lot of problems with Cadillac, but it's because it's an American brand. I don't care about the history, I care about what I know of American cars. My 1999 M Coupe interior was in better shape in 2010 than the interior of my 2003 Chevy Suburban was in 2005. American cars have had very poor quality interior build quality, and the quality of trim parts, buttons, latches and whatnot has always been relatively cheap. For a long time, they've all looked like they were made by Tyco Toys. Now interiors are getting better, but I have yet to see anything that reassures me that American build quality is any near to being in the ballpark of German build quality. I don't care what technology Cadillac puts into the car, what matters is how that technology fares 5-6 years from now when I'm knocking on the 100,000 mile threshold. Creaks? Squeaks? Rattles? Not only that, but American cars, in my experience, do not stand up well to hard use. The harder I drove my Bimmers, the more reliable they were. Every American or Japanese car I've owned has had progressive issues with hard use.
Then there's the issue of GM needing a government bailout, and the fact that I despise the UAW, and I can't bring myself to buy a Cadillac.
January 8, 2013, 8:31 am
My e90 had close to 250000km on it this fall (it was built in '08 summer) It had the Msport interior and I must say the leather on the gearshift knob thingy didnt look new anymore but no actual peeling as you describe it. Seats, plastic and alu dash parts were all mint condition.
January 8, 2013, 9:23 am
My e90 had close to 250000km on it this fall (it was built in '08 summer) It had the Msport interior and I must say the leather on the gearshift knob thingy didnt look new anymore but no actual peeling as you describe it. Seats, plastic and alu dash parts were all mint condition.
January 8, 2013, 9:24 am
If they could have given me a 6mt 2.0T with an LSD for about $299 a month, I may be on another forum. I wound up not even leasing as my M-Sport would have been like $500 a month.
January 8, 2013, 9:27 am
Then either you had some horrible car made during octoberfest and then hidden in the lot with the normal cars, or I'm sorry to say this: you did a horrible job maintaining it.
I'm by no means an expert but around 20 people at work here have e90s (and the touring version is it e91?) all from 2007 and 2008 and none of them had any of the complaints/problems you describe.
January 8, 2013, 10:08 am
I'm by no means an expert but around 20 people at work here have e90s (and the touring version is it e91?) all from 2007 and 2008 and none of them had any of the complaints/problems you describe.
January 8, 2013, 10:13 am
I realize 1978 was a lifetime ago...but my first car was a '78 Chevy Monte Carlo, which I got in 1986, making it 8 years old. My 545 has an in-service date in 2004, making it eight years old also. Setting aside mechanical reliability, the appearance of age between the two cars is, frankly, dramatic. The Monte's headliner had fallen out, the material on the seats was disintegrating, and the paint was completely oxidized. I know that GM is doing a better job now, but until these cars turn eight or ten years old I'm not sure how much better and my personal experience is what it is.
January 8, 2013, 10:31 am
I realize 1978 was a lifetime ago...but my first car was a '78 Chevy Monte Carlo, which I got in 1986, making it 8 years old. My 545 has an in-service date in 2004, making it eight years old also. Setting aside mechanical reliability, the appearance of age between the two cars is, frankly, dramatic. The Monte's headliner had fallen out, the material on the seats was disintegrating, and the paint was completely oxidized. I know that GM is doing a better job now, but until these cars turn eight or ten years old I'm not sure how much better and my personal experience is what it is.
Yeah, those results are not typical at all. Sounds like this guy lives at the beach and leaves his windows down all night. Or something.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=623918
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=432757
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=534401
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=366248
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=563875
I am not even going to post complaints from other forums but there are plenty more.
January 8, 2013, 10:52 am
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=623918
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=432757
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=534401
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=366248
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=563875
I am not even going to post complaints from other forums but there are plenty more.
January 8, 2013, 11:16 am
January 8, 2013, 12:26 pm
Recently Cadillac has been rated much higher than BMW in JD Power's new car satisfaction survey. But the reality is, we don't drive theses cars for reliability and durability reasons. Most of them are short term leases. Fun driving is what they are about.
January 8, 2013, 12:47 pm
January 8, 2013, 1:54 pm
Excellent observation.
I believe that, with a radar absorbing clear-coat, this Scourge of Munich will present a radar profile too small to detect.
January 8, 2013, 1:57 pm
i thought they treid to make it look ugly and boring, for old people.
January 8, 2013, 7:54 pm
January 8, 2013, 8:02 pm
Pick your poison.
January 8, 2013, 8:15 pm
I sat down in a 370Z the other day. Nice car, really, and superbly priced for the level of performance you get. But, seriously, the interior of that car looked like it was aimed at a 21 year old. It looked like a transformer that hadn't transformed yet.
So, maybe I'm the staid, middle-aged guy BMW is aiming at. I like what they do better.
January 12, 2013, 11:06 pm
I went to the Hampton Roads International Auto Show today and decided to check out the ATS. It wasn't a real looker. I think they had the base model on the floor for display. The thing is there were so many elderly people surrounding the car that I could barely get a chance to sit in the thing. Cadillac has a reputation that will take decades to turn around. You can even see a walker the lady was using to get around in the photo. This is a sporty Cadillac, not sure if it would be driven that way.
January 12, 2013, 11:14 pm
"Look Laverne, it's an inexpensive Cadillac! I think on our fixed income we can afford the $299 a month. I'm getting that HurryCane I saw on TV. It folds down so it'll fit in the trunk. Let's go to the all-you-can-eat early bird at Mabel's, soak our dentures, and talk it over."
BJ
January 13, 2013, 7:49 am
'Boring' isn't the adjective I would use.
January 13, 2013, 11:47 am
I have said this many times, for ATS to change Caddy's image, they need to have competitive leases. Those who just enter job market often cannot afford a 3 series, and since the 3 series can sell for more because there are plenty of established buyers out there who are willing to pay for it, it will be out of reach for many younger drivers.
Here Caddy has an opening, unintended maybe, but whether they can see it or not is questionable.
BTW, I would not call ATS boring, it stands out quite apart from many other brands. But it still lacks options. In this super competitive segment, they need to learn from the boss, provide more trims and special order items, such as performance parts. They are not nearly as resourceful as BMW in this regard.
January 13, 2013, 12:26 pm
If they were to test drive the car and feel how stiff the setup is, would they walk away? I walked up to the car with an open mind, and my wife (who insists on never driving a Cadillac) thought it looked okay. It doesn't stand out from the rest, and that may be what it needs. The XTS right next to it had the average crowd gathered around it.
I just thought it was weird to see the ATS surrounded by that crowd, of course all the kids surrounding the CTS-V's right next to it wasn't helping either. I just don't think it's the looks that will attract the target segment, it's the way it drives. But in order to get them inside the car it has to have the looks.
January 13, 2013, 12:31 pm
January 13, 2013, 1:44 pm
If they were to test drive the car and feel how stiff the setup is, would they walk away?
January 13, 2013, 4:46 pm
January 13, 2013, 5:07 pm
January 13, 2013, 5:15 pm
January 13, 2013, 9:48 pm
January 13, 2013, 10:33 pm
I think if they play the card right, they will be able to recruit a lot more younger drivers, starting with ATS.
BTW, when it comes to driving enthusiasts, I am afraid the younger generations are less passionate about driving than older generations these days.
January 13, 2013, 10:41 pm
However, my 16 year old and all his friends seem to be more into performance/enthusiast cars than the eco/green cars.
So hopefully a new wave of kids will pick up where we left off.
January 13, 2013, 10:56 pm
The oldest of the Baby Boomers are approaching retirement age. These Senior Citizens grew up with performance cars, GTOs, Boss Mustangs, Camaro Z28s and BMW 1600s and 2002s, Datsun 240Zs, etc,
Now that they are older and now that cars have evolved they may be looking for more creature comforts than when they were younger but they are not looking for the 21st Century reincarnation of a mid 60s Cadillac that isolates them from the road. This is a very affluent segment of the population and is very important to any car company.
CA
January 14, 2013, 4:24 pm
I have said this many times, for ATS to change Caddy's image, they need to have competitive leases. Those who just enter job market often cannot afford a 3 series, and since the 3 series can sell for more because there are plenty of established buyers out there who are willing to pay for it, it will be out of reach for many younger drivers.
Here Caddy has an opening, unintended maybe, but whether they can see it or not is questionable.
BTW, I would not call ATS boring, it stands out quite apart from many other brands. But it still lacks options. In this super competitive segment, they need to learn from the boss, provide more trims and special order items, such as performance parts. They are not nearly as resourceful as BMW in this regard.
Who said BMW does not listen?
January 14, 2013, 4:39 pm
Who said BMW does not listen?
It was kind of a no brainer after seeing Cadillac brag about the $33k price point and $299 a month leases.
January 14, 2013, 4:47 pm
January 14, 2013, 4:55 pm
The global car business is coming more and more to the NA market.
Remember when there would be various Ford's, various tuning-we had a crappy Focus compared to the Euro Focus, now one iteration. Now small engines, even diesels and 3 cylinder engines, more small hatchbacks, all here now in North America.
BMW is and will be doing the same thing. More small cars, more engine downsizing, more diesels.
I think it's great. I hated being in Europe and fawning for cars we would never see. Now the problem is all those Euro cars had manuals and we are getting less and less.
January 14, 2013, 7:24 pm
The global car business is coming more and more to the NA market.
Remember when there would be various Ford's, various tuning-we had a crappy Focus compared to the Euro Focus, now one iteration. Now small engines, even diesels and 3 cylinder engines, more small hatchbacks, all here now in North America.
BMW is and will be doing the same thing. More small cars, more engine downsizing, more diesels.
I think it's great. I hated being in Europe and fawning for cars we would never see. Now the problem is all those Euro cars had manuals and we are getting less and less.
January 14, 2013, 7:43 pm