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So is the general feeling that you shouldn't own a BMW out of warranty?

42K views 368 replies 81 participants last post by  Rover 
#1 ·
I've been lurking for awhile and more often than not people have said that owning a BMW outside of warranty is a bad idea. I've owned Japanese cars all of my life and I'm spoiled by their reliability. I love a fun driving car as much as the next guy. I also fall in love with my cars and tend to hold on to them.

However, I absolutely hate having to take time out of my day to deal with automotive repairs. I'm assuming that warning against owning outside of warranty is due to the fact that there will be more than a few repairs to deal with.

(Patiently awaiting BJ's condescending remarks :p).
 
#71 · (Edited)
Agree. That is why I placed an order for a 2013 x5. The x5 has had its share of growing pains and I felt more comfortable taking the last year production car than a first year production car (2014). Despite my preference to not buy a car within the first 2 years of production I admit that I did violate that rule, for the first time ever, with the F10.
 
#69 · (Edited)
I've mostly owned Japanese cars and they are very reliable even if I did most of the fluid changes...at 10 years old the only thing that had to be replaced in the engine area of my RSX is the starter...I still have original clutch, brake pads, rotors, belts, changed both headlights once and the front driver blinker recently burned out.
German cars are more complicated and are not as reliable...my wife's car is a good example...these were the issues/items changed thru the 6 years of ownership...serpentine belt, brake pads, brake squeak, balance shaft (dealer paid half the cost), coolant hose replacement (trip interrupted), power steering reservoir replaced, at least 6x changed front and back bulbs.
Both are from normal driving, sometimes spirited but not to abuse and good maintenance.
Through 2500+ miles and 2.5 months, my F30 brakes squeak (I'm not surprised) and I had the dealer check (reproduced) and worked on it once. I'll bring it back soon and if they can't fix it I'm informing BMW HQ.
Somehow I feel safer in a German car and my F30 is definitely more fun and very responsive.
Will I keep keep my F30 after warranty? I want to but I'll have to wait and see.
 
#70 ·
I keep my cars for ten years and I drive more than 20k per year so I will let you know! I still have my y2k maxima with 216,000 miles on her. One radiator, alternator, two batteries, and a thermostat to date. My 2011 328 has 33850 miles and I will be out of warrenty the latter part of 2013.
 
#76 ·
I would never own newer cars out of warrenty unless you can afford some hefty bills. Or its a Toyota Camry. or Honda Civic. The more tech that goes in to these cars the more crazy they get with the repair bills.

I had a friend (granted not a BMW) just replace a $1300 injector in her VW.

I know some people are lucky and I am not going to say they are always going to break but if they do...watch out. Car dealers laugh at the people who buy used (older- non CPO) Merc's, Audi's, BMW's, Jag's, and Landrover's. They feel so special that they could get a Luxury car and then boom... 5k or worse repair bill and they have to sell the car for peanuts because they can not afford to fix it.

I heard a BMW owner say "they should sell used BMW's for $1 because the repair bills cost more then the payments!" Granted I know that is not always the case.
 
#77 ·
Car dealers laugh at the people who buy used (older- non CPO) Merc's, Audi's, BMW's, Jag's, and Landrover's. They feel so special that they could get a Luxury car and then boom... 5k or worse repair bill and they have to sell the car for peanuts because they can not afford to fix it.
I laugh at their CPO asking prices. :dunno:

The irony is, a $5k repair is rare, but everyone who leases one of these new luxury cars pays a $5k bill every single year.
 
#93 ·
Btwy, here is something I realized.

Take a 15K Civic and a 60K BMW. Look at most maintenance/repair items. I think you would find that they would be maybe 1.25 to at most 2 times more for the BMW (not at dealers, obviously), not 4 times more. So from that perspective, it may actually make more sense to hang on to the expensive car longer and just toss the cheap car like a disposable item.
 
#94 ·
AFAICT expensive dealer servicing is industry wide now, the business model of 'break even on the purchase, make money on the service'

Some more expensive than others, basically here in Oz everything but parts for Falcons and Commodores are imported so are ridiculously expensive. You are simply mad if you service dealer (e.g. fuel pump for my E34, genuine $513, OEM Bosch $185, some other OEM I didnt buy $135)

And will someone please mention that Camrys and Corollas have so little in common (4 wheels perhaps) with a well sorted decent spec euro (i.e. not entry level, sorry 316ti and A-class owners you dont drive real BMWs/MBs). Different leagues, of course there will be different costs involved. I think my $$ has got me a hell of a lot of car in my E34 540i, plus there is lots of rep around for oldskool BMWs.

Sense in maintenance saves dollars in fixes :)
 
#99 ·
My family has owned five BMW's, still have four of them and they have all been great automobiles. My first was an '01 X5 3.0i that I sold with 118K miles. I had some minor repair bills outside of warranty (mostly worn suspension parts), but nothing major. Its new owner says it is still going strong after an additional 3+ years. Its repalcement is an '09 X5 3.5d and that vehicle has been fabulous. It only has 40K miles on it, so too new to report on repair bills.

My son and wife have E46's. We bought my wife's '04 330i new and it has been a great car. Yes, we have dealt with the usual E46 issues (coolant system overhaul, valve cover gasket, etc), but at 107K miles it is going strong and the repair bills have not been stifling. My son's '02 325i has had a few more issues. It has 125K miles and he is the third owner (bought it 1.5 years ago at 105K miles and got it's complete service history). The biggest thing that has plagued him is the air conditioner. It has needed a new compressor and now has a leaking condensor. The compressor wasn't terrible as we found one at a salvage yard. The leaking condensor is a big, expensive issue, but the leak rate is slow and for the time being, a periodic recharge is the better solution. Still a great car!

Our newest addition to the fleet is my wife's '13 335i. We picked it up at the Performance Center on 11/30. So, way too new to comment on. Awesome car!

In the end, our experince after almost 400K miles spread across four+ BMW's is that if you maintain your car (we have followed the manufacturer suggested maintenance intervals), the costs of out of warranty repairs are not excessive. Everyone's threshold for excessive is different, but our enjoyment of the cars and the brand far outweigh the repair costs. Just my opinion...
 
#100 ·
My family has owned five BMW's, still have four of them and they have all been great automobiles. My first was an '01 X5 3.0i that I sold with 118K miles. I had some minor repair bills outside of warranty (mostly worn suspension parts), but nothing major. Its new owner says it is still going strong after an additional 3+ years. Its repalcement is an '09 X5 3.5d and that vehicle has been fabulous. It only has 40K miles on it, so too new to report on repair bills.

My son and wife have E46's. We bought my wife's '04 330i new and it has been a great car. Yes, we have dealt with the usual E46 issues (coolant system overhaul, valve cover gasket, etc), but at 107K miles it is going strong and the repair bills have not been stifling. My son's '02 325i has had a few more issues. It has 125K miles and he is the third owner (bought it 1.5 years ago at 105K miles and got it's complete service history). The biggest thing that has plagued him is the air conditioner. It has needed a new compressor and now has a leaking condensor. The compressor wasn't terrible as we found one at a salvage yard. The leaking condensor is a big, expensive issue, but the leak rate is slow and for the time being, a periodic recharge is the better solution. Still a great car!

Our newest addition to the fleet is my wife's '13 335i. We picked it up at the Performance Center on 11/30. So, way too new to comment on. Awesome car!

In the end, our experince after almost 400K miles spread across four+ BMW's is that if you maintain your car (we have followed the manufacturer suggested maintenance intervals), the costs of out of warranty repairs are not excessive. Everyone's threshold for excessive is different, but our enjoyment of the cars and the brand far outweigh the repair costs. Just my opinion...
Your statement is the exact reason why some people feel BMW's should or should not be owned outside of warranty. It all depends on your threshold for excessive repair costs. Regardless, I maintain my view that these are well built cars and are well worth owning up to 200k miles when comapred with the cost of buying a new comparable car. The key is do you see the value in keeping and maintaining an out of warranty BMW or would you rather just lease a new one every 3 years. Both are fine as long as it fits your needs and wants.
 
#240 ·


Above all else, BMW is a luxury brand. Whatever marketing takes place after that to make enthusiasts feel "sporty" is just a nice-to-have.

The total amount of "sport" anything on a BMW is less than 10% of all BMW's sold. Sport Packages, Sport Lines, Sport Suspensions, M-Sport's, M3's, it's a tiny fraction of BMW's sales. The bump in price they get over the likes of a Honda or Acura comes from the brand tax, the fact that the car is a luxurious status-symbol.

BJ
You're incorrect. Because it has a brand tax does not mean its a luxury brand. Refer to Porsche, their infamous 20k tax doesn't make their 911 or Boxter a luxury car. Have you sat in a new-911 lately? Luxury is not a term that comes to mind.

The F30 is a fantastic car, but the Luxury line is a trim level, nothing more. You're making it seem like it's bespoke or something.

Just some advice, it's extremely tacky to discuss one's finances and income on a public forum. I don't think you're naïve enough to think you're the only one on the block that's been blessed financially... The tone you're using makes you look extremely pretentious.
 
#244 ·
Just some advice, it's extremely tacky to discuss one's finances and income on a public forum. I don't think you're naïve enough to think you're the only one on the block that's been blessed financially... The tone you're using makes you look extremely pretentious.
I'm being challenged and I'm defending myself. That said, if you think your 7 Series makes you look humble...

BJ
 
#109 ·
Thanks for all of the replies. Lots of differing views in this thread. Let me add another layer though. I'm thinking of buying a used F30 as to not take the hit on depreciation seeing as I intend to own the car for a long time. So the question is whether or not I can get an extended warranty if I buy a non-CPO car? For instance, if I find what I want at a Carmax instead of a BMW dealer. It'll be a task to find though since I don't want a car with more than 30k miles on it.
 
#110 ·
We keep discussing a cheap way to get into a new luxury car and it really isn't something you should be doing.

Consider spending the next 10 years in 3 leased Honda Accord's for less money than spending the next 10 years in 1 aging BMW 3 Series. You'll get every feature they offer, you'll be fully under warranty, and you'll have the excitement of a new car every 36 months and the flexibility to get into an expensive German luxury car if your lifestyle allows it.

Trying to beat the system doesn't work. You'll just wind up in an old car that's out of warranty and costing you big money. In 2022 you'll be sitting on a porch with your old dog at your feet and a warm beer in your hand gazing at your dented F30 and doing the math in your head and realizing that leasing 3 new cars would have saved you money and headaches and you wasted a decade driving an old car that you didn't love and spent more for that privilege.

I know. I did it myself.

BJ
 
#118 ·
Lease makes sense for following:
- Those eligible for tax write off as a part of their business
- Those who like to get a new car every 3 years
- Those who prefer hassle free car ownership over savings
- Those who want to drive a car a bit more expensive than they can afford

For those wanting to keep the car for 5-6 years or so and drive under 20K, they come out ahead with buying. They might have to deal with some repair bills but chances are that the bills won't be very substantial in the 1-2 years they are out of warranty.

Never did the math for a 10 year buy. I think that's too long to keep a car, easpecially if that's your main car. Styles and tech get outdated too soon these days. And the cost of repair of these fun imports just take the fun out of it.
 
#119 ·
Lease makes sense for following:
- Those eligible for tax write off as a part of their business
- Those who like to get a new car every 3 years
- Those who prefer hassle free car ownership over savings
- Those who want to drive a car a bit more expensive than they can afford

For those wanting to keep the car for 5-6 years or so and drive under 20K, they come out ahead with buying. They might have to deal with some repair bills but chances are that the bills won't be very substantial in the 1-2 years they are out of warranty.

Never did the math for a 10 year buy. I think that's too long to keep a car, easpecially if that's your main car. Styles and tech get outdated too soon these days. And the cost of repair of these fun imports just take the fun out of it.
I agree with all those except the last one. Leasing is not for people to over extend themselves. Those leasee's usually have the bad experience. Can't afford premium fuel, can't pay end of lease fees, can't afford quality tires. Not to mention insurance is always more expensive. They also put down to much to get the payment cheaper and when the car gets wrecked they are screwed and tattooed.
 
#131 ·
Wilkpedia examples of luxury:

Luxury good, an economic good or service for which demand increases more than proportionally as income rises
Luxury tax, tax on products not considered essential, such as expensive cars
Luxury vehicle, expensive automobiles
Luxury trains, expensive tourist trains
Luxury yacht, expensive privately owned, professionally crewed yacht
Luxury real estate, niche real estate market dealing with the highest economic group of property buyers
Luxury resort, exclusive vacation facilities
Luxury magazine, magazines devoted to fine craft and luxury goods


Some of the key words for luxury: expensive, exclusive, niche product, product not considered essential.
 
#137 ·
I do think "luxury" is a relative term and depends in part on income. Some people would consider inside running water a luxury.

If everyone here disclosed his or her income, it would make it easier to understand what others mean by the term.

I'll start. I make less than BJ, so clearly a three series is a luxury (and during Sandy, so was running water). :)
 
#145 ·
Ppl dont buy 7series and S classes anymore do they? I know rich guys who lease gt3s for the min mileage track the poop out of it the return. Good way to always have an awesome track car. I wouldnt buy a car unless it will be a classic or the potential to. I would buy a 1m right now. The f30 for me is a temp
 
#179 · (Edited)
Assuming you bought your 2008 in 2012, that $30,000 over 6 years translates to a $420 a month lease payment.

So for the same money that's the next 6 years of your life leasing a brand new 135i (currently $380/mo) or a 335i (currently $399/mo) or an X3 (currently $429/mo).

In 2018 you will own a 10 year old 3 Series worth $3,500. Your out-of-pocket spend on out-of-warranty repairs will likely be $2,000. You will have $1,500 equity in your car.

In 2018 you would have been about to take delivery of your 3rd brand new BMW on lease. Your out-of-warranty repairs will be $0. You will have $0 equity in your car.

For the sake of $1,500 or $19 a month, you could have been driving 3 new BMW's instead of 1 old one. And if your used BMW needs more than the estimated $2,000 in out-of-warranty repairs, the entire process was a waste of time because you simply put yourself in a used car instead of 3 new ones for nothing, might have even saved you money.

BJ
 
#159 ·
I'm a little late to the party, but I'd pretty much NEVER own one out of warranty. I' had more problems with my first BMW than my previous 5 cars (Mazda, 3 Civics and G35) combined. And my 2nd BMW hasn't been much better. Still love the car. Just hate the reliability. :thumbdwn::thumbdwn:
 
#161 ·
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s
The best part about leasing is the three year cycle:

Year 1: In love.
Year 2: Just a piece of furniture.
Year 3: Preparing for the divorce.

So by the time the F32 hits the streets in critical mass, it'll be Month 30 for me and I'll have negotiated my pull-ahead and I'll be waiting for my F30 LCI to arrive.


you're a short term lover

should be ... "in health or sickness.... Love forver I do" when you sign the lease
 
#167 ·
Not sure how this turned into a lease versus buy debate. I may be an anomaly, but I don't keep my cars for 10 years so I can "get into a car I can't afford". That's just a weird statement. Do you imagine that I'm eating ramen noodles the first 5 years until the car is paid off? I find a car I'm going to love and drive it. If I don't love it I'll get rid of it when the honeymoon is over. BTW, the dude that is churning through cars over the same 10 year period has gone through $150,000 worth of cars. Nothing wrong with that either. To each his own.

The only reason I even looked at a 3 series is because it has a turbo which is what I want in my next car. That's it. It's not badge. It's not luxury. It's purely a check on the list. Of course being in a BMW would be nice, but it's not a priority. Whether I decide to pay cash, lease, or finance will be decided after I find what I want as well.

Anyway, I started this thread with the goal of trying to understand BMW's reliability. However, I now feel like I'm pigeon holed into the role of irresponsible buyer stretching himself beyond his means. Do people really think that everyone that keeps their cars for a long time or doesn't want to waste money on depreciation is poor? My FIL still drives his 1995 Merc and the dude is a millionaire many times over.
 
#171 ·
I've been lurking for awhile and more often than not people have said that owning a BMW outside of warranty is a bad idea. I've owned Japanese cars all of my life and I'm spoiled by their reliability. I love a fun driving car as much as the next guy. I also fall in love with my cars and tend to hold on to them.

However, I absolutely hate having to take time out of my day to deal with automotive repairs. I'm assuming that warning against owning outside of warranty is due to the fact that there will be more than a few repairs to deal with.

(Patiently awaiting BJ's condescending remarks :p).
Depends on how you drive, your environment and maintenance.

My 2007 X3 just turned 130000 miles. It has been very trouble-free. I had a CPO warranty to 100k miles. Great vehicle. I can't wait to see it hit 150000 and 200000 miles!

My 530 - has over 100000 miles. Excellent so far, although my wife just told me the heated steering wheel died last night!

My Z4 - so far great, but it is a baby as far as miles.

So my answer is no - no issues owning out of warranty!
 
#177 ·
I think its funny that in many parts of the world BMWs are cop cars and cabs.How do you think they perceive BMWs?I like working on German cars as their put together in the most engineering efficient ways.Talking about a BMW out of warranty on this forums is rather amusing to me.Very easy ,don't go to the dealer for anything.Find a Indy mech that speaks English as his first language.Search the Interweb and attain some knowledge about your vehicle.There are other BMW forums with almost no one leasing ,and most own older bimmers.
 
#187 ·
I think its funny that in many parts of the world BMWs are cop cars and cabs.How do you think they perceive BMWs?
Funny, I thought that was the case for Mercedes. I always see european mercedes taxi cabs, and even over here in the states we have mercedes UPS trucks.

As for cop cars, I know britain uses BMWs as cop cars, but that's because their normal cruisers simply arent fast enough to keep up with the juicers.

I also know that the Royal family uses BMWs, so :dunno:
 
#181 ·
BentZero Not sure how this turned into a lease versus buy debate. I may be an anomaly, but I don't keep my cars for 10 years so I can "get into a car I can't afford". That's just a weird statement. Do you imagine that I'm eating ramen noodles the first 5 years until the car is paid off? I find a car I'm going to love and drive it. If I don't love it I'll get rid of it when the honeymoon is over. BTW, the dude that is churning through cars over the same 10 year period has gone through $150,000 worth of cars. Nothing wrong with that either. To each his own.

This turned into a lease vs. buy debate because you asked for advice and the answer is: "you should be leasing". You can lease an F30 for as low as $339 a month. That's less money than your electric bill + cellphone bill in all likelihood.

The only reason I even looked at a 3 series is because it has a turbo which is what I want in my next car. That's it. It's not badge. It's not luxury. It's purely a check on the list. Of course being in a BMW would be nice, but it's not a priority. Whether I decide to pay cash, lease, or finance will be decided after I find what I want as well.

That's good to know, but in the end you are going to have to choose to spend $600 a month for either a used car that's depreciating or 3 new cars that never depreciate. If you don't plan on keeping it for more than 7 years, don't buy.

Anyway, I started this thread with the goal of trying to understand BMW's reliability. However, I now feel like I'm pigeon holed into the role of irresponsible buyer stretching himself beyond his means. Do people really think that everyone that keeps their cars for a long time or doesn't want to waste money on depreciation is poor? My FIL still drives his 1995 Merc and the dude is a millionaire many times over.

As has been discussed, BMW reliability is a 50/50 proposition but with the influx of new technologies all over the car the prospect of owning one in 2018 with no warranty would be a frightening proposition to most of us.

No one is accusing you of being irresponsible. However, one has to ask oneself:

If you can be in 3 brand new Honda's for significantly less money with significantly more reliability and significantly more features, is it prudent to consider a BMW?

In the end, the 3 Series is a fantastic car but it's really designed to be a $45,000-$50,000 configuration that's turned over every 3½ years. Buying one of lesser cost deprives you of some great features and keeping it out of warranty is a big risk. It's just not the same type of situation as you are used to with Japanese cars which are more reliable and can last a decade with little worry.

BJ
 
#186 ·
Cars are put into categories, I always found that the 3 series was lopped into ENTRY LEVEL LUXURY CAR. Calling it a SPORTS SEDAN is a further and unnecessary further means of separating. But all the competing cars do the same thing-you can option them to take more the SPORT side or the LUX side. But in the end, it's the same grouping-ENTRY LEVEL LUXURY.
 
#189 ·
Prince Charles as a logn time Aston Martin driver.

 
#191 ·
I think I remember Prince William drove this car when leaving for their honeymoon.
 
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