The BMW Drivers Survival Guide to American Roadways

by Bimmerfest.com Member - voip-ninja on December 13, 2012, 12:20 pm
One of the most interesting and lurid experiences that any BMW owner has is the challenge of navigating the roadways of this great nation of ours with a minimum of fuss. The challenge is increased in some ways by piloting a vehicle that is far more capable of driving safely at higher speeds and smaller safety margins than the overwhelming majority of vehicles on the road.

For that reason I have authored this survival guide to help the person who is potentially new to the thrilling world of operating a high performance sports sedan on public roadways and wants to be as knowledgeable as possible.



The first thing that one must do in order to be a successful driver is to understand the types of fellow motorists one will encounter. It is also very important that the same driver can fall into different categories depending on the situation or conditions. The same person who drivers very aggressively on their morning commute might become a completely defensive driver if they are shuttling their kids to soccer practice.

There are four basic types of motorists in the US (and probably everywhere);

The Passive;



The passive driver views driving as a necessary evil, the automobile is simply an appliance or magic box that transports them from point A to point B, the fact that they must pilot this conveyance is simply an inconvenience.

Passive Driver Behaviors;
  • Passive drivers are typically interested in doing almost anything they can do in the car other than driving it. They can be seen applying makeup, chatting on phones, texting, and generally ignoring their job of safely piloting a 2000+ lb weapon around other motorists.
  • These drivers are frequently seen driving below the speed limit even on fast thoroughfares. They may or may not be in the appropriate lane for this activity.
  • Alternatively passive drivers may be driving far too fast for conditions because they simply aren't paying attention.
  • Late braking. These drivers aren't really paying a whole lot of attention, so they are frequently taken unawares by traffic coming to a sudden stop. They will often apply brakes at the last possible moment resulting in little notice to the drivers behind them that it's time to slow down.
  • Poor lane keeping is a frequent behavior of the passive driver. These drivers tend to wander within their lane and might wander between lanes.
  • Usually doesn't signal lane changes. Also there is a good chance that this driver does not check blind spots, or even the mirrors themselves during a lane change.
  • These drivers frequently sit at a light after it turns green for several seconds before it occurs to them it's time to go. They then will leisurely make their way through the intersection even if it means that other motorists miss the light.
  • Although not the only driver type to exhibit this behavior, the passive driver is frequently guilty of the "last minute lane change" in order to make an exit or turn.
  • Passive drivers don't really know how to drive well. These drivers will do things that might baffle other drivers, such as coming to a complete (or near complete) stop in order to negotiate a turn, or come to a stop at a highway on-ramp or other inappropriate place.
  • The passive driver frequently displays utter callousness about the condition of their vehicle. An extremely dirty newer model vehicle with numerous dents, dings and scrapes is a dead giveaway for a passive motorist who views driving as an inconvenience.

Dealing with the Passive Driver;

In a way, the passive driver can be the most dangerous driver to deal with, because their behavior is simply unpredictable. The first step is to identify that a driver is a passive... something that can typically be accomplished quickly based on the above behaviors. The cell phone at the ear with a blasé attitude towards driving, such as one hand on the wheel, meandering around the highway, slow response to traffic signals, etc. The safest thing to do with the passive driver is to safely navigate around them and put them in your rearview mirror. As you overtake this driver pay attention to what the front wheels of their vehicle are doing, as this is a better indicator of where their car is going. Do not assume that a passive driver sees you, even if they make eye contact! Once you have overtaken and avoided this driver, it is wise to change lanes so that they are not behind you... this driver has a greater chance of rear-ending you than any other driver type.

The Defensive;



The defensive driver takes their job of driving their car very seriously... some might say too seriously. These drivers view driving as an activity in which their number one job is safely piloting their automobile and negotiating the hazards of the roadway. They will always opt out of any kind of competitive driving situation, because it's better to be safe than sorry!

In extreme cases a defensive driver can be described as a frightened driver

Defensive Driver Behaviors;
  • Defensive drivers execute good lane discipline for the most part, although they might be reluctant to overtake when appropriate, instead slowing down below the speed of traffic.
  • Defensive drivers will often be "overly" courteous to other drivers, such as waving other motorists through an intersection even when they have the right of way.
  • Defensive drivers do a very good job of proper pacing….... they will observe the four second following rule whenever possible. If traffic is picking up this driver typically prefers to stay in the slower moving traffic lanes for safety reasons.
  • Defensive drivers might drive a little more slowly than the conditions would allow, because safety comes first.
  • Defensive drivers are sometimes so safety focused that they might fall victim to not planning for an exit or route change. This driver however will prefer to proceed past their exit and do a u-turn or exit turnaround rather than careening through multiple traffic lanes in order to make an exit.

Dealing with the Defensive Driver;

Defensive drivers are probably the second easiest type of driver to deal with on the road. These drivers generally are willing to drive cooperatively, even though, unlike the Active Driver they don't view driving as a cooperative endeavor.

Being courteous with these drivers is not required but is highly recommended. Planning lane changes, proper signaling and leaving plenty of clearing room when overtaking will leave Defensive Drivers with a positive impression of you, which might help out if you need some mutual cooperation on the roadway.

The Aggressive



The aggressive driver views driving as a competitive endeavor, and other cars on the road are simply obstacles preventing them from getting to their destination as quickly as possible. The aggressive driver has an inflated sense of their own driving ability and views other drivers as either sheep or opponents who must be combated. These drivers sometimes are very skilled, but their driving behavior puts the lives of others at risk in order to fuel their own ego. These drivers may or may not have undiagnosed psychiatric illnesses such as untreated anger management issues, schizophrenia, or psychopathic behaviors.

To an aggressive driver, everything that happens on the road is a pissing contest.

Aggressive Driver Behaviors;
  • The aggressive driver will frequently be seen driving with one foot on the brake and one on the gas. Frequent "brake checking" in conjunction with following too closely is often a tell-tale sign of the aggressive driver who is ready to come off the chain at a moment's notice.
  • Frequently takes the race line through corners, even if it means intruding into oncoming traffic lanes.
  • Aggressive drivers are frequent left lane tailgaiters, even if traffic in that lane is packed. Another key indicator of an aggressive driver over other types of drivers is the tendency to do a "left lane peek" in which they will swerve into the break-down lane in order to get a look ahead and see what is holding them up.
  • Overtaking an aggressive driver is perceived by them as a challenge and opportunity for them to demonstrate to other drivers their superior driving abilities.
  • Aggressive drivers have no lane discipline and will frequently charge in and out of whatever lane will get them ahead of traffic as quickly as possible, even if it is relatively unsafe to do so.
  • This driver often does not use their turn signal or does so in a confrontational manner, such as using a single turn signal blip to signal to another driver "I just cut you off".
  • The aggressive driver does not leave adequate room when overtaking, often coming within inches of knocking mirrors or bumpers with other motorists.
  • The aggressive driver will often view ANY car ahead of them as a target for overtaking, regardless of the speed of traffic. If fast traffic is moving at 80 mph, the aggressive driver will drive at 90 mph and attempt overtake of those vehicles, even in high traffic situations.
  • Every stop light is a dragstrip opportunity to the aggressive driver.
  • School zones and residential areas don't require speed reductions, because this driver is supremely confident in their own abilities.
  • The aggressive driver views the road as theirs, and does not intend to share it with others.
  • If there is a lane closure, or lane ending (or entry lane on a highway on-ramp) the aggressive driver will usually charge down a nearby lane and then force their way into the access lane.
  • The aggressive driver will refuse to acknowledge that their driving is aggressive or predatory in nature.
  • The aggressive driver frequently expresses rage and frustration at every other driver on the road. This is often signalled with verbal shouting as well as hand gestures.

Dealing With The Aggressive Driver

The aggressive driver, for obvious reasons, is the most dangerous driver that you will encounter on the road. The first rule of thumb is not to engage in competition with the aggressive driver, for this individual will often act irrationally and take risks that put the lives of other parties at risk. Generally speaking, the approach to take with an aggressive driver is "let them have it". If you find yourself in a situation in which you have affronted an aggressive driver (you passed them, or "beat them" to a lane change or intersection) the best thing to do is to not make eye contact and let them be on their way. Under no circumstance should you attempt to race or one-up the overly aggressive driver, as all this will do is escalate the situation. What was a minor offense and irritation can turn into a matter of life or death depending on the mental state of the individual encountered.

Aggressive drivers come in a variety of intensities and other driver types can easily switch into various levels of aggressive behavior based on something that triggers aggression on the roadway.

Some states have hotlines to report overly aggressive driving. If it is safe to do so, and you generally believe that the behavior of the person is putting the lives of others at risk, you should place a call to the local police and provide the license plate of the individual in question.

The Active Driver



The active driver is characterized as someone who views driving as a pleasurable endeavor, and also as an exercise in "mutual cooperation". The active driver doesn't necessarily have to get to their destination in the shortest time possible, but they do want to enjoy the drive as much as they can.

This is the type of driver that every sports sedan enthusiast should aspire towards being... safely enjoying their car and driving in a spirited fashion that does not put other motorists at risk.

The active driver subscribes to a driving theory that is known in motorcyclist circles as "The Pace" in which driving technique and vehicle control are more important than overall speed.

Active Driver Behaviors (The Rulebook)
  • Active drivers believe in driving through mutual cooperation and generally courteous conduct on the roadways.
  • The active driver lets other motorists onto the freeway by adjusting speed or making a lane change to ease entry. If someone has their turn signal on, let them merge unless unsafe to do so.
  • The active driver has no problem overtaking, but will do so safely, making sure that they leave enough spacing for the other motorist. The general rule of thumb is that you can see one or both headlights of the car being overtaken in your rear-view mirror before completing the overtake.
  • Active drivers exercise strict lane discipline whenever possible. There is no excuse to be in the left lane unless passing (dense traffic notwithstanding) and this driver does not get angry or agitated if other drivers want to overtake. Passing on the right is verboten unless no other options are available.
  • Active drivers are cognizant of vehicle spacing at stops and intersections. If the rear tires of the vehicle ahead cannot be seen clearly over the hood, then spacing is too tight and any rear-end accident will likely be compounded into a multiple car event.
  • Even when driving at a spirited pace, the active driver follows the 2 second following rule to allow for ample time for an emergency stop or lane change.
  • The active driver understands that situational awareness is KEY to successful driving.
  • The active driver is mentally playing chess and planning their next move, be it an overtake, lane change, or preparing to exit the roadway.
  • The active driver plays the "what if" game. What if that something bounces out of the bed of that truck? What if this car makes a sudden lane change? How will I respond? In fairness, defensive drivers should also play this game.
  • The active driver understands the characteristics of the vehicle they are driving, such as how it will handle in inclement weather situations, how quickly it stops, etc.
  • The active driver prefers the inside lane on a multi-lane left turn.
  • The active driver understands that bending the rules a bit (breaking the speed limit) is permitted, but it depends on the conditions and situation. In some situations (children present, school zone, etc) it is never permissible to break the speed limit for convenience sake.

Dealing with the Active Driver

The active driver is probably the easiest driver for other drivers to deal with. This driver isn't interested in a competitive display and is relatively courteous. Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. For the highly safety minded driver, such as the defensive driver, the active driver can be seen as someone who plays loosely with the rules, but it will be evident even to the defensive driver that this person is disciplined in their behavior.

Good luck out there and be safe!


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48 responses to The BMW Drivers Survival Guide to American Roadways

Kanuck commented:
December 13, 2012, 5:21 pm

Wow! Very impressive.

It does always amaze me how people's behavior in cars can be very different from how they behave at other times. For example, if 4 people are waiting for an ATM, is it acceptable to just walk into the bank and cut into the front of the line? No. But, when driving this seems to be perfectly fine, at least in Toronto.

It is sort of like the internet where people have a feeling of anonymity (if you cut someone off, who cares, you'll never see them again) and security (because they are sitting in this heavy steel box).

Don't get me started on the people who use empty on-ramps to pass slow traffic on the right.
voip-ninja commented:
December 13, 2012, 5:25 pm

It's funny you should mention that. Last night I was in line to use the automatic kiosks at the local post office, with a few people in front of me. Clearly we were all waiting for use of EITHER of the two machines.

An older asian fellow walked up and queued directly behind the person using the furthest machine. I actually asked him if he understood what a line was or just thought that he was extra important, and he just proceeded to cut everyone off and use the machine while others continued to wait.
mdsbuc commented:
December 13, 2012, 5:30 pm

Voip, that's a great write-up; very well written. The two extreme groups, passive and aggressive, are by far the worst drivers on the road. "Passives" aggravate me the most with their "left lane hogging," and with their texting while driving. Today, driving my college student daughter home from school for the Christmas break, I had to pass a car on the right on I-75 who would not clear out of the passing lane even though there was absolutely no one in front of her. As I passed, I peered through the window to see her TEXTING at nearly 80mph. I was doing 80 on cruise; she was doing slightly less than that. Just the idea of what she was doing is nearly unimaginable to me.
voip-ninja commented:
December 13, 2012, 5:35 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsbuc View Post
Voip, that's a great write-up; very well written. The two extreme groups, passive and aggressive, are by far the worst drivers on the road. "Passives" aggravate me the most with their "left lane hogging," and with their texting while driving. Today, driving my college student daughter home from school for the Christmas break, I had to pass a car on the right on I-75 who would not clear out of the passing lane even though there was absolutely no one in front of her. As I passed, I peered through the window to see her TEXTING at nearly 80mph. I was doing 80 on cruise; she was doing slightly less than that. Just the idea of what she was doing is nearly unimaginable to me.
Yes, although passive drivers are often pokey, they also can drive far too quickly for the conditions, and in the wrong lane... because they are simply pre-occupied and don't grasp how dangerous what they are doing is until it's too late.

The ones who drive fast without realizing it, and then veer off to make an exit at the last possible second are among the scariest drivers encountered.
johnofcross commented:
December 13, 2012, 6:23 pm

Very well written sir. Hard to judge which I am, cause can't really tell, but I'm a close Active - Defensive driver more than anything. I just love driving my car. Now I need to watch Drive.
voip-ninja commented:
December 13, 2012, 6:39 pm

Drive is an awesome movie.
hans007 commented:
December 13, 2012, 7:14 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
It's funny you should mention that. Last night I was in line to use the automatic kiosks at the local post office, with a few people in front of me. Clearly we were all waiting for use of EITHER of the two machines.

An older asian fellow walked up and queued directly behind the person using the furthest machine. I actually asked him if he understood what a line was or just thought that he was extra important, and he just proceeded to cut everyone off and use the machine while others continued to wait.


i've got a funnier story for you. I user to live in the bay area and would frequent costco near oakland, ca. They sell rotisserie chickens for $5 there, but towards closing they obviously shut the ovens off and these become scarce.

So most people patiently wait in line, get 1 chicken once they put them out and go on their merry way. It would be somewhat wrong to take say 3 chickens when there is a huge line and a limited number left, so most decent people do this.

Now oakland is a pretty diverse area. I'm asian, there are a lot of white people / black people in the area, latinos etc. That said all the more americanized people i.e. people who speak english well generally do the decent human being line thing.

However and i'd seen this multiple times, i'd seen arguments and near fights break out, when some non english speaker either pretended they didnt understand english at all, and just cut the whole line and grabbed like 3 chickens with a huge line right there.

This is probably how you can turn the "active driver" into the "aggressive driver" momentarily because theres always some asshat out there that ruins your mood by cutting you off or whatever. I'm figuring some of these asshats are the passive driver who are just completely oblivious to everything in life. I also tend to think how you drive / play sports / act in general are all pretty related. I'm guessing the passive driver types, really are totally oblivious idiots at other things too.
Mark K commented:
December 13, 2012, 7:38 pm

You obviously took some serious time to write this. Personally, I don't care in which category a driver belongs as long as they are a good driver. Very easy to define:

Good driver - someone who will never allow his driving to force other people to take actions they otherwise wouldn't take. These actions could be brake, steer, accelerate, change lanes, take alternate route ... it doesn't matter.

Needless to say, there are VERY FEW good drivers in U.S. With such a huge majority of bad drivers there simply isn't anything you can do about it. You can pass them and leave them in your rearview mirror only to meet another one 1/8 mile ahead and start all over again. Not worth it.
voip-ninja commented:
December 13, 2012, 7:55 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by hans007 View Post
i've got a funnier story for you. I user to live in the bay area and would frequent costco near oakland, ca. They sell rotisserie chickens for $5 there, but towards closing they obviously shut the ovens off and these become scarce.

So most people patiently wait in line, get 1 chicken once they put them out and go on their merry way. It would be somewhat wrong to take say 3 chickens when there is a huge line and a limited number left, so most decent people do this.

Now oakland is a pretty diverse area. I'm asian, there are a lot of white people / black people in the area, latinos etc. That said all the more americanized people i.e. people who speak english well generally do the decent human being line thing.

However and i'd seen this multiple times, i'd seen arguments and near fights break out, when some non english speaker either pretended they didnt understand english at all, and just cut the whole line and grabbed like 3 chickens with a huge line right there.

This is probably how you can turn the "active driver" into the "aggressive driver" momentarily because theres always some asshat out there that ruins your mood by cutting you off or whatever. I'm figuring some of these asshats are the passive driver who are just completely oblivious to everything in life. I also tend to think how you drive / play sports / act in general are all pretty related. I'm guessing the passive driver types, really are totally oblivious idiots at other things too.
I grew up in northern Vermont close to the Canadian border. Lots of Canadians who lived just north of the border would come south into the US to do their shopping. Without fail, 100% of these people would pretend that they only spoke French and refuse to communicate in English, even though you could tell, that without a doubt they at least UNDERSTOOD English and probably spoke it fluently. Basically they could get away with **** they never would otherwise by pretending they didn't communicate in the lingua franca.
voip-ninja commented:
December 13, 2012, 7:56 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
You obviously took some serious time to write this. Personally, I don't care in which category a driver belongs as long as they are a good driver. Very easy to define:

Good driver - someone who will never allow his driving to force other people to take actions they otherwise wouldn't take. These actions could be brake, steer, accelerate, change lanes, take alternate route ... it doesn't matter.

Needless to say, there are VERY FEW good drivers in U.S. With such a huge majority of bad drivers there simply isn't anything you can do about it. You can pass them and leave them in your rearview mirror only to meet another one 1/8 mile ahead and start all over again. Not worth it.
It took about 30 minutes to do while I was on a very boring conference call. However, you could say that my philosophy on the types of drivers one encountered has been evolving over the past 15 or so years, I've just never documented it before.
golovko commented:
December 13, 2012, 9:21 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
You obviously took some serious time to write this. Personally, I don't care in which category a driver belongs as long as they are a good driver. Very easy to define:

Good driver - someone who will never allow his driving to force other people to take actions they otherwise wouldn't take. These actions could be brake, steer, accelerate, change lanes, take alternate route ... it doesn't matter.

Needless to say, there are VERY FEW good drivers in U.S. With such a huge majority of bad drivers there simply isn't anything you can do about it. You can pass them and leave them in your rearview mirror only to meet another one 1/8 mile ahead and start all over again. Not worth it.
Your definition of a good driver doesn't work. A good driver may cause you to take an action you otherwise wouldn't take in the event of an emergency or unexpected road hazard. Just because you had to brake or change lanes doesn't mean they are a bad driver. voip-ninja pretty much nailed it perfectly.
MMME30W commented:
December 13, 2012, 9:33 pm

One of the best threads I've seen in years.

Bravo sir, bravo.
vonmayr commented:
December 13, 2012, 11:07 pm

I love driving in Germany on the rare times I have had a chance to do that. Besides the speeds on the Autobahn, is the absolute, well, CORRECTNESS of the German driving behavior. Everyone follows the rules! Well written, VOIP!
Quinn Lasser commented:
December 13, 2012, 11:15 pm

Fun read. I think at different times, I'm a different driver. Sometimes it's nice to be in the slow lane and just let people pass. Other times, I'd rather be the one passing. I know I don't want to be tail gaited, but I also don't want to be behind someone going too slow.

When it comes to the "Passive Drivers", I generally think they don't have turn signals in their cars, but phones are standard equipment.
Quinn Lasser commented:
December 13, 2012, 11:18 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by vonmayr View Post
I love driving in Germany on the rare times I have had a chance to do that. Besides the speeds on the Autobahn, is the absolute, well, CORRECTNESS of the German driving behavior. Everyone follows the rules! Well written, VOIP!

Totally agree. That's why the Autobahn works. You pass someone, you get over immediately after. Pedestrians actually wait for their light to be green before crossing the street. It's amazing!
DerekS commented:
December 14, 2012, 12:27 am

What a rare and well written piece of wisdom !!!!

I think you you submit your piece to Road & Track or Car & Driver for publication.
It's that good !!

Thank you indeed !!!
chiba commented:
December 14, 2012, 12:54 am

Thank you for such a great read!
A lot of truth to this and now I can aspire to be an "Active Driver".
Admittedly, when I'm driving with my kids I'm "Defensive" and in bad traffic I'm "Passive"

Chiba
av98 commented:
December 14, 2012, 3:42 am

Great summary on driving on US roadways. Probably best to be able to do all 3 traits except for the passive driver depending on the situation. It's interesting the types of driving you need to survive depending on which area or city you go to. In Northern California, you need 3 different types of traits just to drive in the city, highways and suburbs. Then if you go to Southern California, the highway driving is different from NorCal, the flow is just that much faster. So good summary but no real loser other than passive, they tend to promote the most road rage driving anywhere in the world.

Love how you summarized the Active driver as someone who can anticipate all forms of driving scenarios while being respectful with other cars. I do dislike the fact that most drivers keep that respectful part just to other cars, most don't recognize motorcycles as moving vehicles. I feel sorry for the people who don't move left or give any indication that motorcycles need right of way too. Can't remember how many peace and thumbs up signs you can get from just giving them room.

I wish we adopted the Japanese or European driving tests standards that require emergency avoidance as part of the live tests to get a license. We would eliminate probably half the drivers in this country.
ilhan1103 commented:
December 14, 2012, 5:10 am

excellent writing.

I enjoyed reading it, thank you for that. It is safe to say this is not just for your country but pretty much universal fact, you have these types everywhere I think.
Sure there are more of one type and less of another depending on location, but every country has them (even the autobahn, I've seen them )

I think I am somewhere between the Active and the Agressive driver myself. Sad to admit that some of those 'aggressive' characteristics are valid for me after I've met too many assholes on the way. Mind you my daily commute just for going to and from work is 200+ km so I meet alot of assholes.
jfox335i commented:
December 14, 2012, 9:16 am

You forgot to mention that as a driver of a BMW, everyone on the road has become an inconvenience who's sole purpose in life is to get in your way.

Good read, thanks for sharing.
chris328 commented:
December 14, 2012, 1:19 pm

you forgot the "stoners" drivers group

kind of a crossbreeed between defensive and active.

Chris
voip-ninja commented:
December 14, 2012, 1:39 pm

"stoned" and "active" are mutually exclusive and frankly anyone who is stoned should not be on the road with other drivers.
Mark K commented:
December 14, 2012, 2:55 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
It took about 30 minutes to do while I was on a very boring conference call. However, you could say that my philosophy on the types of drivers one encountered has been evolving over the past 15 or so years, I've just never documented it before.
Yes, I meant it was obvious that you did put some thought into it. When you have time, you might enjoy reading this old thread from ED section. Highly recommended.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...635&highlight=
chris328 commented:
December 14, 2012, 4:47 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
"stoned" and "active" are mutually exclusive and frankly anyone who is stoned should not be on the road with other drivers.
really. of course I'm sure you're perfectly OK with people driving after having a couple drinks. scientific research seems to disagree with you.

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2...fer_alcoho.php
hans007 commented:
December 14, 2012, 5:22 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
"stoned" and "active" are mutually exclusive and frankly anyone who is stoned should not be on the road with other drivers.
im gonna have to say , you are probably more defensive stoned, and i'm not really sure at all what you'd call a drunk driver.

seeing as you are in colorado and its state legal there now, guess you'll have to watch out for it more.
voip-ninja commented:
December 17, 2012, 10:17 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by hans007 View Post
im gonna have to say , you are probably more defensive stoned, and i'm not really sure at all what you'd call a drunk driver.

seeing as you are in colorado and its state legal there now, guess you'll have to watch out for it more.
I don't expect it to be any "worse" than dealing with the other types of DUI users (drunks, prescription drug abusers, all of which is already 'legal') who already litter the roadways.
3ismagic# commented:
December 17, 2012, 2:15 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
It's funny you should mention that. Last night I was in line to use the automatic kiosks at the local post office, with a few people in front of me. Clearly we were all waiting for use of EITHER of the two machines.

An older asian fellow walked up and queued directly behind the person using the furthest machine. I actually asked him if he understood what a line was or just thought that he was extra important, and he just proceeded to cut everyone off and use the machine while others continued to wait.
I should point out that queueing etiquette is not the same everywhere. In some places (parts of Asia actually) the behavior you attribute to "cutting" is actually the culturally prescribed correct way to do it.

He may be completely unaware that he is violating American queueing norms.
voip-ninja commented:
December 17, 2012, 2:17 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ismagic# View Post
I should point out that queueing etiquette is not the same everywhere. In some places (parts of Asia actually) the behavior you attribute to "cutting" is actually the culturally prescribed correct way to do it.

He may be completely unaware that he is violating American queueing norms.
That may be, but when someone corrects a person on the proper etiquette or cultural 'norm' they are expected to correct their behavior, not ignore the local custom.
3ismagic# commented:
December 17, 2012, 2:29 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
That may be, but when someone corrects a person on the proper etiquette or cultural 'norm' they are expected to correct their behavior, not ignore the local custom.
Yes.
Though are assuming the old guy understands both english and sarcasm.


Just the other day I was at a CVS picking up a script and there was a guy behind me standing just off to the side and kind of pacing back and forth. Any American looking at him would have assumed he was "in line". Some young d-bag came up and took his spot. When the guy said to him that he was actually next they got into a heated debate about how close one needs to be to the person in front of them and at what angle to be considered "in line".

This is what happens when two "aggressive drivers" meet in a line. I prefer to call them d0ouchbags because their aggressiveness rarely is confined to driving.

Other common attributes of the D0uchbagus Americanus:
1. Wears Affliction t shirts
2. Enjoys UFC
3. Constantly asking those around them what they are looking at and if they have a problem.
4. Often refers to self as "the big dog" or the "alpha male"
HugH commented:
December 17, 2012, 7:57 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
That may be, but when someone corrects a person on the proper etiquette or cultural 'norm' they are expected to correct their behavior, not ignore the local custom.
You need to spend sometime overseas, other than nordic European countries. People can get killed for what you tried to do, or the very least, slapped across your head!

Thankfully, most of the time we still have a sense of decor in our society.
voip-ninja commented:
December 17, 2012, 8:03 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by HugH View Post
You need to spend sometime overseas, other than nordic European countries. People can get killed for what you tried to do, or the very least, slapped across your head!

Thankfully, most of the time we still have a sense of decor in our society.
If someone wants to 'kill me' over pointing out that he's cutting a line, he's welcome to try it.
DAI commented:
December 17, 2012, 8:35 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by HugH View Post
You need to spend sometime overseas, other than nordic European countries. People can get killed for what you tried to do, or the very least, slapped across your head!

Thankfully, most of the time we still have a sense of decor in our society.
Huh? I've been in multiple countries across Europe, South America, and Asia and never felt threatened when I accidentally broke local custom and was corrected on it. Not sure i want to travel where you go.

By the way, great thread!
HugH commented:
December 17, 2012, 9:53 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAI View Post
Huh? I've been in multiple countries across Europe, South America, and Asia and never felt threatened when I accidentally broke local custom and was corrected on it. Not sure i want to travel where you go.

By the way, great thread!
23 years in the military. We lived in several countries. It all depends in what parts of the country you happen to find yourself.

I found at the best policy is to bite your tongue and take a deep breath. That's what the locals do in Turkey and it seems to work best in other parts of the third world.

Believe it or not, saying something that might be misunderstood by the tone of your voice and/or by your facial expression can easily be misconstrued as an insult and is against the law in some countries. Yes, some countries have laws against personal insults in public.
HugH commented:
December 17, 2012, 10:17 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
If someone wants to 'kill me' over pointing out that he's cutting a line, he's welcome to try it.
I had a couple of encounters in Manila back in the late 60's when Ferdinand Marcos was the dictator. We were awaiting to enter a club with my wife and another GI couple. The show was an American entertainer by the name of Johnny Cash. We were close to the head of the line and here comes a filipino and his lady with a group of body guards shoving people away, making room for their boss to enter unimpeded. Of course, they were flashing their guns...
I was told by a filipino couple behind me he was a Senator!!!
DAI commented:
December 18, 2012, 9:10 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by HugH View Post
23 years in the military. We lived in several countries. It all depends in what parts of the country you happen to find yourself.

I found at the best policy is to bite your tongue and take a deep breath. That's what the locals do in Turkey and it seems to work best in other parts of the third world.

Believe it or not, saying something that might be misunderstood by the tone of your voice and/or by your facial expression can easily be misconstrued as an insult and is against the law in some countries. Yes, some countries have laws against personal insults in public.
Ahh, yes you probably went to rougher places in the military than I do for business.

Thank you very much for your service.
HugH commented:
December 18, 2012, 1:21 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAI View Post
Ahh, yes you probably went to rougher places in the military than I do for business.

Thank you very much for your service.
Where in Wisconsin are you? My better half is from a small town about60 miles east of the Twin Cities. We still go every summer to the family gathering that keeps grown and growing.
Lots of brats and fun!
usaret commented:
December 18, 2012, 1:33 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by HugH View Post
23 years in the military. We lived in several countries. It all depends in what parts of the country you happen to find yourself.

I found at the best policy is to bite your tongue and take a deep breath. That's what the locals do in Turkey and it seems to work best in other parts of the third world.
Retired military as well and I agree 100% on this.

As I heard Dr Phil say years ago:
Quote:
You can't make other people be the way you would like them to be.
I never give total strangers a second thought or let them ruin my day.
DAI commented:
December 18, 2012, 8:55 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by HugH View Post
Where in Wisconsin are you? My better half is from a small town about60 miles east of the Twin Cities. We still go every summer to the family gathering that keeps grown and growing.
Lots of brats and fun!
Down between Milwaukee and Chicago. Summer in the northwoods of Wisconsin is a great time. We head up that direction a couple times a year.
racooper3 commented:
December 21, 2012, 8:23 pm

Excellent read. Active Driving for me.
voip-ninja commented:
December 21, 2012, 8:49 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by racooper3 View Post
Excellent read. Active Driving for me.
kunal_D commented:
December 23, 2012, 1:25 pm

Very good read, this applies everywhere. Thanks for taking the time to write this up.
KAJ commented:
December 23, 2012, 2:06 pm

In really enjoyed the well-written piece by voip-ninja. I just purchased a Red Z4 35is and have noticed a strange phenomena. Drivers in Chevy Cameros and Mercedes sport cars seem to take my car as a challenge and have the apparent need to follow closely and then to accelerate past me as fast as possible. It is as if they are challenging me to a race. I just let them go and put distance between myself and their aggressive driving. It is odd that I have never experienced this in quite the same way when driving my SUV. Have any others with sports cars noticed the same. Or is it just the red color? Is it just with Cameros and Mercedes, or is it a problems with other car owners as well? My sample size is still too small to be statistically significant.

2013 BMW Z4 35is, Melbourne Red Metallic on Beige Kansas leather, 18 inch wheels, Heated front seats, Ash Grain Wood Trim, Park Distance Control, Navigation system,
BMW Apps
DAI commented:
December 23, 2012, 3:46 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by KAJ View Post
In really enjoyed the well-written piece by voip-ninja. I just purchased a Red Z4 35is and have noticed a strange phenomena. Drivers in Chevy Cameros and Mercedes sport cars seem to take my car as a challenge and have the apparent need follow closely and then to accelerate past me as fast as possible. It is as if they are challenging me to a race. I just let them go and put distance between myself an their aggressive driving. It is odd that I have never experienced this in quite the same way when driving my SUV. Have any others with sports cars noticed the same. Or is it just the red color? Is it just with Cameros and Mercedes, or is it a problems with other car owners as well? My sample size is still too small to be statistically significant.
2013 BMW Z4 35is, Melbourne Red Metallic on Beige Kansas leather, 18 inch wheels, Heated front seats, Ash Grain Wood Trim, Park Distance Control, Navigation system,
BMW Apps
Experience similar fairly frequently; my wife and I refer to it as 'BMW hate'. The only other time I experienced similar on a regular basis is years ago when I had my Suzuki GSX-R 750 and H-D riders.
voip-ninja commented:
December 26, 2012, 1:55 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by KAJ View Post
In really enjoyed the well-written piece by voip-ninja. I just purchased a Red Z4 35is and have noticed a strange phenomena. Drivers in Chevy Cameros and Mercedes sport cars seem to take my car as a challenge and have the apparent need to follow closely and then to accelerate past me as fast as possible. It is as if they are challenging me to a race. I just let them go and put distance between myself and their aggressive driving. It is odd that I have never experienced this in quite the same way when driving my SUV. Have any others with sports cars noticed the same. Or is it just the red color? Is it just with Cameros and Mercedes, or is it a problems with other car owners as well? My sample size is still too small to be statistically significant.

2013 BMW Z4 35is, Melbourne Red Metallic on Beige Kansas leather, 18 inch wheels, Heated front seats, Ash Grain Wood Trim, Park Distance Control, Navigation system,
BMW Apps
I don't think it applies just to sports cars or to BMWs. When I used to ride my Yamaha R1 red sport bike I would even have kids in beater honda civics pull up on me at 85+ mph and want to "race" (as if they had a prayer).

There's just something about driving a vehicle that is perceived (by many) as trying to one-up others vehicles that inspires this weird behavior in strangers.
BMWFatherFigure commented:
December 27, 2012, 3:05 am

Driving is a learnt activity. Teaching standards are the MINIUM to get the licence. Serious teaching in classrooms as well as practical situations; meaningful tests should be the norm. I can hear the voices complaining about people being denied their RIGHT of a licence. What RIGHT? A licence is a PRIVILAGE and one that people should be reminded of now and again. That said most BMW owners enjoy driving their cars so much they tend to be alert - you cant enjoy unless you are involved.
hamfei commented:
January 10, 2013, 9:30 am

This is really a great document.
JimD1 commented:
January 11, 2013, 3:19 pm

I like the OP too. Well written and quite accurate.

A way to spot a potential driver to avoid around here is a confederate flag bumper sticker. Tailgate down on the pickup is another clue (they think it lowers wind resistance but it actually raises it). Cars full of kids is another avoid for me usually. It's hard for the driver to not be distracted.

I get my switch flipped to aggressive sometimes. Like by pickups with their tailgate down with confederate flag bumper stickers that aggressively lane change forcing me to brake to avoid hitting them. I hit my peak spead so far in my bimmer getting away from idiots like this. Not smart but I have my limits (which I'm working on increasing).

Jim
voip-ninja commented:
January 11, 2013, 3:58 pm

There's a simple solution to your problem Jim, move out of SC! :P Just kidding.