BMW opened the latest chapter in the 3 Series story as it announced the new 2013 BMW 320i Sedan for the US market. Constructed with the near-perfect 50:50 balance afforded by BMW rear-wheel drive and priced from $33,445 (including $895 Destination & Handling), the new BMW 320i packs a content-rich punch in the marketplace for premium compact sport sedans. Sporting a 180-horsepower TwinPower Turbo 4-cylinder engine, the new BMW 320i Sedan goes on sale in late-Spring 2013. Along with the new 320i Sedan, the BMW 320i xDrive Sedan featuring BMW's intelligent all-wheel drive system will also be available from $35,445 (including $895 Destination & Handling). The broad palette of standard equipment includes Bluetooth smartphone integration and BMW's Auto Start-Stop function.
Owners will appreciate the incredibly flexible 8-speed automatic transmission, while drivers seeking maximum involvement may opt for a traditional 6-speed manual on the non-xDrive 320i. 17-inch BMW light alloy wheels are standard on the 320i and 320i xDrive, with two different styles of 18-inch light alloy wheels available in combination with Sport Package.
The engine of the new BMW 320i Sedan is BMW's award-winning 2.0-liter TwinPower Turbo 4-cylinder engine, rated in the 320i at 180 horsepower at 5,000 rpm and 200 lb-ft of torque from 1,250 rpm - 4,500 rpm. 0-60 mph acceleration for the 320i Sedan is estimated to require only 7.1 seconds with either transmission choice. Top speed is an electronically-limited 130 mph. The class-leading fuel efficiency of the BMW 328i Sedan is expected to be sustained by the new 320i Sedan, meaning preliminary estimates for the 320i with 6-speed manual transmission are 22 City / 34 Highway, while 23 City / 33 Highway are estimated for the 320i equipped with 8-speed automatic. The 320i xDrive model is expected to achieve 22 City / 33 Highway (Note: all estimates are preliminary at publication).
Engine Comparison Details: 320i vs 328i
Most of BMW's leading ConnectedDrive elements and vehicle versatility options from the BMW 328i and 335i siblings will be available on the new 320i. These include the aforementioned 8-speed automatic transmission plus BMW Assist telematics services, BMW Apps, heated front and rear seats, heated steering wheel, rear-view camera, xenon adaptive headlights, moonroof, split-folding rear seat, and BMW's Navigation system.
Befitting The Ultimate Driving Machine, a Sport Package is available for both the 320i and 320i xDrive. For the 320i the package includes 18-inch light-alloy wheels with summer tires and increased top speed limiter, sport seats, M sport suspension, M steering wheel and anthracite headliner. All-season tires with 130 mph speed limiter may be specified in place of the performance tires. For the 320i xDrive the Sport Package includes 18-inch light-alloy wheels with all-season tires, sport seats, M steering wheel, and anthracite headliner. Summer tires with increased top speed limiter can be ordered in place of the all-season tires.
Several other equipment packages are also available for the 320i Sedan, including Cold Weather Package, Premium Package, Driver Assistance Package, and Lighting Package. The full complement of exterior colors from the 328i Sedan is available, with exception of Estoril Blue Metallic which requires M Sport Line (unavailable on 320i). 320i buyers will also enjoy a choice of standard Leatherette or optional Dakota Leather upholstery, both in a choice of Venetian Beige or Black.
BMW's innovative 8-speed automatic gearbox – which was a first in the segment when introduced last year on the 328i and 335i Sedans – opens up a whole new level of driving experience. Compact and exceptionally efficient, it allows the new BMW 320i to match or outperform models fitted with the standard six-speed manual gearbox in terms of fuel efficiency (actual results vary depending on drive cycle). The new 8-speed automatic brings together shift comfort, dynamic performance and efficiency of the highest order, making it the perfect partner for the new 320i sedan's dynamic potential.
As components of the BMW EfficientDynamics technology line-up, the Auto Start-Stop function, Brake Energy Regeneration, and need-based operation of ancillary components (including an on-demand air conditioning compressor) also play their part in reducing fuel consumption. Added to which, the Driving Dynamics Control switch, which allows the driver to choose between Comfort, Sport, and ECO PRO mode, gives both models the potential to further improve these figures. ECO PRO mode helps drivers maximize fuel economy through their driving style, thereby enabling them to increase the distance they can travel between visits to the pumps.
January 14, 2013, 11:31 am
Stay tuned for more pictures after the press conference!
January 14, 2013, 11:51 am
Just what BMW needed was another model!
January 14, 2013, 12:01 pm
Wonder what the reason is for the 320 - the 328 and 335 serve the low and high end 3 series models.
January 14, 2013, 12:03 pm
Interesting that they are moving the U.S. F30 down market some more. I woulda thought the 4-door 1 series would accomplish that.
I don't really understand this - a de-tuned 2.0 liter that gets the same fuel economy? Really?
January 14, 2013, 12:03 pm
Interesting. I wonder how big the market is for these
January 14, 2013, 12:06 pm
Where will the rumored 2 Series fit?
January 14, 2013, 12:07 pm
January 14, 2013, 12:08 pm
That buys BMW many more customers who couldn't afford the base 328i and/or allows someone who really wanted a 328i with a lot of option packages to step down in engine class and accomplish that goal. Instead of taking a 328i and feeling forced to put no Line on the car or skip something like the technology package, now you can just cut the horsepower and keep all the goodies.
BJ
January 14, 2013, 12:11 pm
Might also signal the end of the 335i completely. The 328i is only a hair less performance positive than the 335i right now is anyway. The 328i can become the top-of-the-line, the 320i the new bottom.
BJ
January 14, 2013, 12:20 pm
For $3-4k less the 320i can grab lots of sales from competitors in the targeted range. I wonder if the 320i engine is a de-tuned N20/N26, if so, a chip can easily bump it up to 328i HP/torque.
January 14, 2013, 12:22 pm
Might also signal the end of the 335i completely. The 328i is only a hair less performance positive than the 335i right now is anyway. The 328i can become the top-of-the-line, the 320i the new bottom.
BJ
The 328 doesn't touch the 335 in regards to performance. I don't care about 60 times and the quarter, however in regards to driving feel, the 328 was laggy and weak, which was the primary reason I went with the 335 over the 328.
This model doesn't make much sense to me either, 4K drop for losing 60HP? I don't get it, but I understand BJs point. It allows those on the fence for a 328, an option to still get into a new BMW. I still say, if you can't afford the 3 series, drop to a 1, or find something else to drive.
January 14, 2013, 12:22 pm
If it were a shorter car, like 175-179 in length, I would have strongly considered waiting to get this one. As it is, according to this, the length is still 4,636mm, or 182.5", so that wouldn't interest me as much.
January 14, 2013, 12:26 pm
Yeah, they'll sell a lot of these. No doubt. No doubt at all.
Contrary to what a lot of people on the 'fest believe, a 328 is a real financial stretch for most people. This opens up an entirely new market segment for would be BMW buyers, a real huge market segment...
January 14, 2013, 12:27 pm
The 328 doesn't touch the 335 in regards to performance. I don't care about 60 times and the quarter, however in regards to driving feel, the 328 was laggy and weak, which was the primary reason I went with the 335 over the 328.
This model doesn't make much sense to me either, 4K drop for losing 60HP? I don't get it, but I understand BJs point. It allows those on the fence for a 328, an option to still get into a new BMW. I still say, if you can't afford the 3 series, drop to a 1, or find something else to drive.
$4,000 is a big deal as is $33,000 price point. Cadillac has its Buick. Acura has its Honda. Lexus has its Toyota. BMW has no step-down brand so it has to do the heavy lifting itself. What I thought might be the 2 Series sedan may never happen now. What would that cost, $25,000?
Very interesting indeed.
BJ
January 14, 2013, 12:31 pm
That buys BMW many more customers who couldn't afford the base 328i and/or allows someone who really wanted a 328i with a lot of option packages to step down in engine class and accomplish that goal. Instead of taking a 328i and feeling forced to put no Line on the car or skip something like the technology package, now you can just cut the horsepower and keep all the goodies.
BJ
Might also signal the end of the 335i completely. The 328i is only a hair less performance positive than the 335i right now is anyway. The 328i can become the top-of-the-line, the 320i the new bottom.
BJ
January 14, 2013, 12:31 pm
They would have instead introduced a 1 series sedan, and by the way, I'm really surprised they didn't and really surprised they're putting out a 320i instead.
January 14, 2013, 12:33 pm
January 14, 2013, 12:37 pm
January 14, 2013, 12:39 pm
So besides the C250, what would be competing with the 320i? Higher end Accords maybe?
January 14, 2013, 12:40 pm
January 14, 2013, 12:40 pm
They would have instead introduced a 1 series sedan, and by the way, I'm really surprised they didn't and really surprised they're putting out a 320i instead.
January 14, 2013, 12:41 pm
January 14, 2013, 12:43 pm
January 14, 2013, 12:44 pm
January 14, 2013, 12:56 pm
Very interesting thread. I think this might be the only country where consumers complain about having more choices (see some posts above).
By the way, there will be minimum 4 engine choices when new diesel specs are made public. Great time to be shopping for a new BMW 3 series.
Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Bimmer App
January 14, 2013, 12:58 pm
Contrary to what a lot of people on the 'fest believe, a 328 is a real financial stretch for most people. This opens up an entirely new market segment for would be BMW buyers, a real huge market segment...
BJ
The 328 doesn't touch the 335 in regards to performance. I don't care about 60 times and the quarter, however in regards to driving feel, the 328 was laggy and weak, which was the primary reason I went with the 335 over the 328.
This model doesn't make much sense to me either, 4K drop for losing 60HP? I don't get it, but I understand BJs point. It allows those on the fence for a 328, an option to still get into a new BMW. I still say, if you can't afford the 3 series, drop to a 1, or find something else to drive.
$4,000 is a big deal as is $33,000 price point. Cadillac has its Buick. Acura has its Honda. Lexus has its Toyota. BMW has no step-down brand so it has to do the heavy lifting itself. What I thought might be the 2 Series sedan may never happen now. What would that cost, $25,000?
Very interesting indeed.
BJ
-------------------------------------------------
I would say this is a good move for BMW. And I'm thinking there is a possibility this could open the door to a 1er sedan without a six cylinder. I can envision a 1er sedan offering the 120 and the 128 and no 135.
I'm sure this motor will also make its way into the X1.
It could also enable BMW to bring the Z4 back "down market" and into more affordable territory. BMW took the Z4 up market considerably with the new model and it has had a pretty negative effect on sales. There are a lot of roadster buyers who would be satisfied with this new motor in a Z4 at a lower price.
January 14, 2013, 12:58 pm
January 14, 2013, 1:01 pm
January 14, 2013, 1:02 pm
This is disgusting. They will offer the M sport steering wheel on this "entry level" car BUT won't even sell me one for my 335 sportline ( I have tried). I have owned 9 BMWs and never been so disappointed in their control freak positioning of these cars.
Come on BMW----be true to your core customers and STOP trying to compete with every single car that comes out near your product's market.
January 14, 2013, 1:03 pm
Therefore, a 320i at $33,000. That puts it right where the "new" meat is. Consider this: A BMW 3-Series cheaper than an Honda Accord (V6, though).
And by the way, I would bet that the 180hp are at the wheels. This is like a 210hp/220lbs-ft engine.
January 14, 2013, 1:07 pm
January 14, 2013, 1:19 pm
January 14, 2013, 1:25 pm
Seems like we're going to see a ton of F30s on the road by year's end
January 14, 2013, 1:28 pm
More pictures of the 2013 F30 320i posted to the Bimmerfest gallery here - http://www.bimmerfest.com/bmw-photos...MW-320i-NAIAS/
January 14, 2013, 1:30 pm
January 14, 2013, 1:35 pm
BMW needs 335i in the segment to keep the competition on its toes, sorry a 328i cannot touch G37 performance, but can easily shut G25's.
The same with the ill fated ATS, MB C-class 250/350, the re-badged Toyota's IS 250/350. The only outsiders are VW group in this segment - A4 is a 328 rival, and the S4 is more positioned towards the M division competition.
January 14, 2013, 1:38 pm
1) will you be able to somewhat affordably and easily "chip" this engine?
2) if the base price is $33k with bluetooth, etc standard....and nobody (at least on this board) pays MSRP for a BMW....what will deals look like?
For example, what will a $500-$1,000 over European delivery deal look like on this car......$29-$30k out the door?
January 14, 2013, 2:09 pm
The same with the ill fated ATS, MB C-class 250/350, the re-badged Toyota's IS 250/350. The only outsiders are VW group in this segment - A4 is a 328 rival, and the S4 is more positioned towards the M division competition.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...an_comparison/
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take-road-test
So the 328 is within a couple tenths of the G37, but seconds faster in most measures compared to the G25.
Don't forget, the ATS brags about the lower starting price thanks to the 2.5L. So now BMW gets to bring the 320 in which is as fast or faster at the same price. The 320 is already sold in other countries so it's kind of a no brainer to bring it here. It's just a detuned N20.
January 14, 2013, 2:23 pm
120i (Base car), 130i (essentially the 128i), 1M (I'm thinking they drop the 135i as too much competition for the 3, low end 4 series price/sales)
220i (Base car), 230i (coupe 128i), M2?
320i (Base car), 328i => 330i, 335i => 340i, M3
430i (which would be the turbo 4), and 440i (which would be the turbo 6), M4?
528i => 530i, 530i => 540i, 550i, M5 stays the same
640i, 650i, M6 stay the same
740i, 750i, 760i stay the same
What do you guys think?
January 14, 2013, 2:25 pm
And it undercuts the 200hp IS250.
January 14, 2013, 2:34 pm
And it undercuts the 200hp IS250.
So we now have:
TSX 2.4
Audi A4 FWD CVT
ATS 2.5
IS250
C250
The 320 will be pretty competitive with all of them. Do not get hung up on the 180hp rating, willing to bet it easily does 180+ to the wheels.
This is not much of a gamble at all for BMW. The G25 lasted only a year. BMW already makes and sells the 320 elsewhere. This might also explain the $350 price increase on the 328.
January 14, 2013, 2:51 pm
So we now have:
TSX 2.4
Audi A4 FWD CVT
ATS 2.5
IS250
C250
The 320 will be pretty competitive with all of them. Do not get hung up on the 180hp rating, willing to bet it easily does 180+ to the wheels. This is not much of a gamble at all for BMW. The G25 lasted only a year. BMW already makes and sells the 320 elsewhere. This might also explain the $350 price increase on the 328.
January 14, 2013, 3:00 pm
Can't wait to see the European Delivery invoice pricing on this car.
What will lease prices look like??? (CHEAP)
January 14, 2013, 3:05 pm
With owners of 328i often seeing hiway mpgs in the low to mid (if not high) 30s, why would anyone be thinking about this?
January 14, 2013, 3:06 pm
January 14, 2013, 3:06 pm
This 320 is detuned, but has nearly identical hardware, it's the exhaust and DME tune.
The N20 328 dyno's it's crank HP at the wheels, I would bet the de-tuned version does the same.
BMW likely releases crank ratings on FI engines in the worst case scenario, like heat soaked.
Edmunds.com dyno'd the ATS 2.0 and the 328 N20 on the same dyno, both manuals. One rated 272 crank, the other 240. The N20 made 1-2hp more to the wheels. Does not mean GM overrated the 2.0T, in fact it's SAE verified. It's that BMW is excessively cautious.
January 14, 2013, 3:08 pm
This is not so much a car for people on this forum, it's the numbers shoppers and the people who would consider the IS250, ATS 2.5, A4 BASE CVT etc.
January 14, 2013, 3:10 pm
This is a smart move by BMW. I bought an X1 because it was in my price bracket. Though I tried mightily there was no way I could get a 328 configured with the things I wanted at anything near the price I paid for the X1. A 320 would have let me get the new F30 technologies while keeping the price affordable for me. That isn't to say that I still wouldn't have bought the X1 instead because of the cargo advantages and the extra horsepower but it would have made me think about it.
If I wasn't leaning wagon I would not be in a BMW today because of the price of the 328. Perhaps I'd be driving a TSX or even the top end new Accord.
January 14, 2013, 3:13 pm
Now maybe it's just me, but the pictures of the interior of the 320i look like lower quality interior materials.
This makes me wonder if BMW is going to strip the 3-series a bit beyond just a detuned n26. Will it have less sound deadening, cheaper materials, etc. (i.e. the 1-series)
January 14, 2013, 3:15 pm
This makes me wonder if BMW is going to strip the 3-series a bit beyond just a detuned n26. Will it have less sound deadening, cheaper materials, etc. (i.e. the 1-series)
January 14, 2013, 3:17 pm
I think this 320i will be a massive success. I have a 328i baseline in Alpine White, so exterior-wise the cheapest F30 available. Trust me most people love it and I get loads of compliments on it. I have a few options that bumped the price up but I've always thought that a stripper with no options is a fantastic deal esp. bearing in mind the free maintenance and discounts. If this 320i will be available lease or buy for a few bucks more than an Accord or Camry people will be all over it. Power-wise 180 is also enough for most people.
January 14, 2013, 3:20 pm
This makes me wonder if BMW is going to strip the 3-series a bit beyond just a detuned n26. Will it have less sound deadening, cheaper materials, etc. (i.e. the 1-series)
January 14, 2013, 3:22 pm
This is not so much a car for people on this forum, it's the numbers shoppers and the people who would consider the IS250, ATS 2.5, A4 BASE CVT etc.
The 328 is a $40k car.
This 320 is a $33,455 car, INCLUDING the $900 destination fee, with bluetooth std.....
Paying $1,000 over invoice will put this in Toyota Camry land, and will render the 3 series far more "less special" than it already is.
Literally anybody could afford a $30k out the door stripper, brand new real deal BMW.
January 14, 2013, 3:25 pm
This makes me wonder if BMW is going to strip the 3-series a bit beyond just a detuned n26. Will it have less sound deadening, cheaper materials, etc. (i.e. the 1-series)
January 14, 2013, 3:25 pm
Can't imagine there would be less 'sound proofing' etc....comes off the same line, same body shell, same warranty, same prepaid maintenance, etc.
Just different engine. Dashboard, doors, everything should be identical other than engine and of course options.
Could order one of these with some wheels, xenons, manual transmission at $1k over invoice makes this competitive with a loaded Honda Accord.
But you still get the cachet, maintenance, service and dealership experience.
January 14, 2013, 3:27 pm
The 328 is a $40k car.
This 320 is a $33,455 car, INCLUDING the $900 destination fee, with bluetooth std.....
Paying $1,000 over invoice will put this in Toyota Camry land, and will render the 3 series far more "less special" than it already is.
Literally anybody could afford a $30k out the door stripper, brand new real deal BMW.
January 14, 2013, 3:32 pm
January 14, 2013, 3:41 pm
to drive a BMW....
$329*/month for 36 months. $1,500 Lease/APR Credit and $750 Loyalty Cash included in payment.
Vehicle Registered outside N.Y.
• $329 First months payment
• $2,750 Down payment
• $0 Security Deposit
• $725 Acquisition fee
• $3,804 Cash due at signing
Vehicle Registered in N.Y.
• $329 First months payment
• $2,750 Down payment
• $0 Security deposit
• $725 Acquisition fee
• $3,804 Cash due at signing
January 14, 2013, 3:50 pm
to drive a BMW....
$329*/month for 36 months. $1,500 Lease/APR Credit and $750 Loyalty Cash included in payment.
Vehicle Registered outside N.Y.
• $329 First months payment
• $2,750 Down payment
• $0 Security Deposit
• $725 Acquisition fee
• $3,804 Cash due at signing
Vehicle Registered in N.Y.
• $329 First months payment
• $2,750 Down payment
• $0 Security deposit
• $725 Acquisition fee
• $3,804 Cash due at signing
January 14, 2013, 3:56 pm
While Bimmerfest would lead you to believe that the roads are filled with 28 year old 335i M-Sport owners in their Estoril Blue F30's, the real world is something very different.
The typical 3 Series driver is a 48 year old. She's 50% female. 60% of them are leasing. 90% are driving vehicles without Sport line or sport anything. 80% are 328i's. And with the average at 48 years old, for every 29 year old male enthusiast there's a 75 year old female using the car to hit the beauty salon.
So the reason "why would anyone be thinking about this" is because the typical 3 Series driver has to ditch important options for the sake of hitting a monthly budget. You see a $349 car advertised on TV. You come in. You add a few options. Suddenly you're at $479. Then you're out the door, off to Audi and off to Acura.
The one thing BMW won't let you trade out of in their most affordable Sedan is the powerplant. The 328i is a beast, extremely powerful. Some might say it's overkill. Certainly a 75 year old female wouldn't notice if you trimmed off 50 HP, might even appreciate it. Oh, and she can save $4,000? And then add the Premium package or the Technology package? Touchdown.
BJ
January 14, 2013, 4:15 pm
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...an_comparison/
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take-road-test
So the 328 is within a couple tenths of the G37, but seconds faster in most measures compared to the G25.
Don't forget, the ATS brags about the lower starting price thanks to the 2.5L. So now BMW gets to bring the 320 in which is as fast or faster at the same price. The 320 is already sold in other countries so it's kind of a no brainer to bring it here. It's just a detuned N20.
Infiniti answer is the new IPL that will feature a turbocharged V6 powerplant - I don't think they target the M market with that but rather 335 market.
January 14, 2013, 4:22 pm
This makes me wonder if BMW is going to strip the 3-series a bit beyond just a detuned n26. Will it have less sound deadening, cheaper materials, etc. (i.e. the 1-series)
January 14, 2013, 4:26 pm
Infiniti answer is the new IPL that will feature a turbocharged V6 powerplant - I don't think they target the M market with that but rather 335 market.
January 14, 2013, 4:30 pm
Hope this delivers outstanding gas milage because by the time you select a couple packages and two or three options you're looking the price of a 328i
January 14, 2013, 4:31 pm
It will be interesting to see what BMW will do for upcoming 4-series and future 3-series.
Anyway, looking farther it appears that IPL will target the M crowd if it is to be believed a 3.7 twin-turbo V6 with 530HP is going to be placed in its heart - that's the GT-R territory, and they will directly compete with that, M division, AMG, etc.
January 14, 2013, 4:33 pm
January 14, 2013, 4:37 pm
It will be interesting to see what BMW will do for upcoming 4-series and future 3-series.
Anyway, looking farther it appears that IPL will target the M crowd if it is to be believed a 3.7 twin-turbo V6 with 530HP is going to be placed in its heart - that's the GT-R territory, and they will directly compete with that, M division, AMG, etc.
As of now, the IPL is overpriced and offers no real power gains. Lets hope the IPL is like you said, a de-tuned GTR-maybe even with a manual trans offered!
A couple of my favorite cars in my ownership history were Nissan products('95 300ZX and '89 Maxima SE 5mt) so I always hope for good cars out of them.
January 14, 2013, 4:38 pm
My 1979 320i had material seats that also held up extremely well.
January 14, 2013, 4:42 pm
While Bimmerfest would lead you to believe that the roads are filled with 28 year old 335i M-Sport owners in their Estoril Blue F30's, the real world is something very different.
The typical 3 Series driver is a 48 year old. She's 50% female. 60% of them are leasing. 90% are driving vehicles without Sport line or sport anything. 80% are 328i's. And with the average at 48 years old, for every 29 year old male enthusiast there's a 75 year old female using the car to hit the beauty salon.
So the reason "why would anyone be thinking about this" is because the typical 3 Series driver has to ditch important options for the sake of hitting a monthly budget. You see a $349 car advertised on TV. You come in. You add a few options. Suddenly you're at $479. Then you're out the door, off to Audi and off to Acura.
The one thing BMW won't let you trade out of in their most affordable Sedan is the powerplant. The 328i is a beast, extremely powerful. Some might say it's overkill. Certainly a 75 year old female wouldn't notice if you trimmed off 50 HP, might even appreciate it. Oh, and she can save $4,000? And then add the Premium package or the Technology package? Touchdown.
BJ
The 320i looks no different than the 328i or 335i. Very soon BJ you need to increase the size of your L328i badge, or risk being laughed at by new college grads.
January 14, 2013, 4:42 pm
My 1979 320i had material seats that also held up extremely well.
Some other euro companies name their vinyl too. Volvo I think even has a marketing name for their cloth lol.
January 14, 2013, 4:46 pm
This is good news, it could mean BMW is moving the US more like Europe where you get lots of choice.
Anyone know what they took out to save $4000? Can't be just a detune.
January 14, 2013, 4:49 pm
Anyone know what they took out to save $4000? Can't be just a detune.
January 14, 2013, 4:49 pm
Some other euro companies name their vinyl too. Volvo I think even has a marketing name for their cloth lol.
January 14, 2013, 4:50 pm
January 14, 2013, 4:51 pm
My VW CC had V-tex, much more convincing than the BMW leatherette, wear was nill at nearly 60k. BMW's feels as though it would last 3x longer than anything else on the car lol.
January 14, 2013, 4:56 pm
My VW CC had V-tex, much more convincing than the BMW leatherette, wear was nill at nearly 60k. BMW's feels as though it would last 3x longer than anything else on the car lol.
"MERCEDES-BENZ 350SL 1979. Yellow with black hard and soft-tops, black mb text and check interior including rear seats. Two families from new. 41,800 miles only from new with service history. Absolutely fabulous condition. A cherished motorcar.
He probably also got the real name wrong, but we had that 300D for 8+ years and got to know the car very well.
January 14, 2013, 4:58 pm
"MERCEDES-BENZ 350SL 1979. Yellow with black hard and soft-tops, black mb text and check interior including rear seats. Two families from new. 41,800 miles only from new with service history. Absolutely fabulous condition. A cherished motorcar.
He probably also got the real name wrong, but we had that 300D for 8+ years and got to know the car very well.
It is also decades later, it is a different grade and surely from a different supplier.
Granted, MBTex is a shortened name for what may have previously known as MB Text.
January 14, 2013, 5:03 pm
You have a lot of people out there who want to get into a BMW, and right now the cost of entry is near $40,000 or $375 a month. And that's for a car that is completely stripped, maybe has one option on it and that's it.
Instead of a very fast twin turbo powerplant making 240 horses, they trade that off for a more sedate powerplant and can add both the premium package and the technology package for the same money. Essentially, the 328i stripper becomes a 320i decently equipped for the same money.
BJ
January 14, 2013, 5:06 pm
Anyone puzzled how a new model fits in the lineup should consider that BMW has always offered choices with considerable pricing overlap, depending on option choices (and no doubt for exactly that reason, making power output just another option). This is the 3 Series sedan lineup in Germany:Exluding the new introduction, we get only the variants in bold. There's plenty of room for expansion.
January 14, 2013, 5:06 pm
Instead of a very fast twin turbo powerplant making 240 horses, they trade that off for a more sedate powerplant and can add both the premium package and the technology package for the same money.
BJ
The N54 was an actual twin turbo setup.
January 14, 2013, 5:09 pm
The 320i looks no different than the 328i or 335i. Very soon BJ you need to increase the size of your L328i badge, or risk being laughed at by new college grads.
And just like 335i owners look down upon 328i owners, we 328i folk now have a new group of people to pick on.
Mr. and Mrs. Camry know one thing: a new BMW versus an old BMW. So the more the merrier I say, so long as there are boatloads of E90‘s out there my status is safe. Keep yours in good shape, ya hear?
I'm surprised you're even posting today. Ironic isn't it? On the very day that the Cadillac ATS is proclaimed North American Car of the Year, BMW launches a vehicle that will destroy it before it ever gets off the ground.
BJ
January 14, 2013, 5:17 pm
Back in the E36 days, not only was there 318i/318is(the equivalent of our 328 now) but there was the 318ti which had even cheaper interior materials, the older trailing arm rear suspension of the E30 and a HATCHBACK to lower the price. In the rest of the world, this continued as there was E46 generations in other countries. I saw one in person last year in China where I took this pic:
January 14, 2013, 5:26 pm
My dad chose a 320i in Australia recently over a 316i or 318d. Of course in countries outside the US these cars cost a LOT more (as does the gas), so folks tend towards the smaller engines. If I remember, the 328i starts at $65k in Australia (a much lower price than the e90). Maybe the Aussies on the forums can keep me honest here...
January 14, 2013, 5:35 pm
This took me by surprise:
http://www.bmwusa.com/detroitautoshow/?s_kwcid
I hadn't read anywhere that BMW were planning to release the 320i in the US. It looks to have a detuned version of the 2.0 tubo in the 328i.
January 14, 2013, 5:47 pm
The N54 was an actual twin turbo setup.
BJ
January 14, 2013, 5:48 pm
My dad chose a 320i in Australia recently over a 316i or 318d. Of course in countries outside the US these cars cost a LOT more (as does the gas), so folks tend towards the smaller engines. If I remember, the 328i starts at $65k in Australia (a much lower price than the e90). Maybe the Aussies on the forums can keep me honest here...
January 14, 2013, 5:52 pm
January 14, 2013, 5:55 pm
January 14, 2013, 6:03 pm
Don't care about the 320, but if they decide to bring the M135i hatchback to our shores, that'll be a sweet DD.
January 14, 2013, 6:12 pm
I think it's nice to have a cheaper 3-series. It's not hard to load up a 328i to $50K. Which puts it out of the league price-wise with Acuras, etc. Which is where a 3-series still needs to compete.
Now, you'll be able to get a very well equipped F30:
320i @ $40K
328i @ $50K
335i/AH3 @ $60K
January 14, 2013, 6:14 pm
You have a lot of people out there who want to get into a BMW, and right now the cost of entry is near $40,000 or $375 a month. And that's for a car that is completely stripped, maybe has one option on it and that's it.
Instead of a very fast twin turbo powerplant making 240 horses, they trade that off for a more sedate powerplant and can add both the premium package and the technology package for the same money. Essentially, the 328i stripper becomes a 320i decently equipped for the same money.
BJ
January 14, 2013, 6:17 pm
That buys BMW many more customers who couldn't afford the base 328i and/or allows someone who really wanted a 328i with a lot of option packages to step down in engine class and accomplish that goal. Instead of taking a 328i and feeling forced to put no Line on the car or skip something like the technology package, now you can just cut the horsepower and keep all the goodies.
BJ
January 14, 2013, 6:19 pm
You might be surprised how many fwd A4s and even A6s I see around Chicagoland.
Big player here, Paul Miller Audi, 39 A4's on the site, ALL Quattro, lowest MSRP $36k and change.
January 14, 2013, 6:22 pm
January 14, 2013, 6:31 pm
What's funny is that, from an options perspective, that $32k Acura TSX is a far more impressive car to step into.
I'm curious how much more down market they are going to move the 3-series. Part of the "pay for the badge" appeal has always been, in the U.S., the exclusivity.
This has been eroded substantially in recent years by lease deals and can be witnessed by the huge relative expansion of BMW ownership in the U.S.
Now they are knocking another ~12.5% off the entry-level cost and probably another $50 off/month on the lease deals.
Wonder how this is going to impact the long-term perception of BMW.
January 14, 2013, 6:37 pm
This has been eroded substantially in recent years by lease deals and can be witnessed by the huge relative expansion of BMW ownership in the U.S.
Now they are knocking another ~12.5% off the entry-level cost and probably another $50 off/month on the lease deals.
Wonder how this is going to impact the long-term perception of BMW.
January 14, 2013, 6:39 pm
Looks like the 320 will not offer the Tech package. Guess that will help keep up 328 status.
Nor the Luxury line.
I'm very safe. An elite 3 Series if there ever was one.
BJ
January 14, 2013, 6:40 pm
I'm curious how much more down market they are going to move the 3-series. Part of the "pay for the badge" appeal has always been, in the U.S., the exclusivity.
This has been eroded substantially in recent years by lease deals and can be witnessed by the huge relative expansion of BMW ownership in the U.S.
Now they are knocking another ~12.5% off the entry-level cost and probably another $50 off/month on the lease deals.
Wonder how this is going to impact the long-term perception of BMW.
In the recent comparo the 328 came on top and was faster than the 280hp TSX V6. The 320 might do better against the 2.4 than you think.
I would not worry about BMW perception due to the 320. As noted above, there have been some pretty low end iterations of BMWs in the E36/E46 generations as well.
January 14, 2013, 6:45 pm
Therefore, a 320i at $33,000. That puts it right where the "new" meat is. Consider this: A BMW 3-Series cheaper than an Honda Accord (V6, though).
And by the way, I would bet that the 180hp are at the wheels. This is like a 210hp/220lbs-ft engine.
2013 honda accord EX-L V6 is loaded and has more features than the base 328i and invoice on the Accord EX-L V6 is only $28292. Plus it has almost 280HP. Beat the hell out of the base 328i.
January 14, 2013, 6:55 pm
2013 honda accord EX-L V6 is loaded and has more features than the base 328i and invoice on the Accord EX-L V6 is only $28292. Plus it has almost 280HP. Beat the hell out of the base 328i.
This is not news.
BMW has never positioned the 3 to seem like a value against the Accord and Camry.
January 14, 2013, 6:57 pm
While Bimmerfest would lead you to believe that the roads are filled with 28 year old 335i M-Sport owners in their Estoril Blue F30's, the real world is something very different.
The typical 3 Series driver is a 48 year old. She's 50% female. 60% of them are leasing. 90% are driving vehicles without Sport line or sport anything. 80% are 328i's. And with the average at 48 years old, for every 29 year old male enthusiast there's a 75 year old female using the car to hit the beauty salon.
So the reason "why would anyone be thinking about this" is because the typical 3 Series driver has to ditch important options for the sake of hitting a monthly budget. You see a $349 car advertised on TV. You come in. You add a few options. Suddenly you're at $479. Then you're out the door, off to Audi and off to Acura.
The one thing BMW won't let you trade out of in their most affordable Sedan is the powerplant. The 328i is a beast, extremely powerful. Some might say it's overkill. Certainly a 75 year old female wouldn't notice if you trimmed off 50 HP, might even appreciate it. Oh, and she can save $4,000? And then add the Premium package or the Technology package? Touchdown.
BJ
January 14, 2013, 6:58 pm
US gets the 320i
Canada gets the 328d .... next week.
http://www.salonautomontreal.com/upl...s-2013_901.pdf
Nice comparo that includes a 320i.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=1BJojoXnGoo
January 14, 2013, 7:00 pm
I think the 320i is a good step and will still be a terrific drive. However, I'm more interested in something that has a compression ignition engine.
January 14, 2013, 7:03 pm
2013 honda accord EX-L V6 is loaded and has more features than the base 328i and invoice on the Accord EX-L V6 is only $28292. Plus it has almost 280HP. Beat the hell out of the base 328i.
No more. That's what I meant.
January 14, 2013, 7:08 pm
No more. That's what I meant.
A loaded 3-series is still 2X the price of a loaded Accord.
January 14, 2013, 7:09 pm
And just like 335i owners look down upon 328i owners, we 328i folk now have a new group of people to pick on.
Mr. and Mrs. Camry know one thing: a new BMW versus an old BMW. So the more the merrier I say, so long as there are boatloads of E90‘s out there my status is safe. Keep yours in good shape, ya hear?
I'm surprised you're even posting today. Ironic isn't it? On the very day that the Cadillac ATS is proclaimed North American Car of the Year, BMW launches a vehicle that will destroy it before it ever gets off the ground.
BJ
But now you have to eat the same pills too soon. So come with me and give the ATS a look. Since most of the ATS drivers will be old, you actually will raise your status as someone making it earlier in life than those old farts.
January 14, 2013, 7:09 pm
Not only the old bodystyle working against it, but why buy used when you can lease new for peanuts?
BJ
January 14, 2013, 7:10 pm
A loaded 3-series is still 2X the price of a loaded Accord.
S**t just got real.
January 14, 2013, 7:11 pm
Wonder what bmw would do next? It would have been better releasing a 1-series.. instead of downgrading a 3'er.
Oh, well.. so they screwed with the 3'er.. hope they dont mess with the M3, M5, etc..plz leave at least 1 good thing alone... I know sales means a lot to you (bmw)... but Class is something ure cherished for!!
Amen.
January 14, 2013, 7:12 pm
But now you have to eat the same pills too soon. So come with me and give the ATS a look. Since most of the ATS drivers will be old, you actually will raise your status as someone making it earlier in life than those old farts.
BJ
January 14, 2013, 7:25 pm
Oh, well.. so they screwed with the 3'er.. hope they dont mess with the M3, M5, etc..plz leave at least 1 good thing alone... I know sales means a lot to you (bmw)... but Class is something ure cherished for!!
Amen.
I expect the M3 to stay close to the current E92 M3 price and go really nuts with the M4 and the M4GC prices.
To me, the new reality will be moving most of the M sales to the upcoming 1- and 2-Series. And they will reach the high $50K anyways.
I do not know how much ceiling BMW thinks they got, but for sure they had to get into the $25-$33,000 bracket for volume just because they will soon have an over abundance of cars at the $65,000-$110,000+ bracket that will not be sold at volume regardless of incentive.
The X1 and the 320i are just the first step.
January 14, 2013, 7:28 pm
January 14, 2013, 7:41 pm
BJ
January 14, 2013, 7:45 pm
But now you have to eat the same pills too soon. So come with me and give the ATS a look. Since most of the ATS drivers will be old, you actually will raise your status as someone making it earlier in life than those old farts.
January 14, 2013, 7:47 pm
January 14, 2013, 7:48 pm
I cant wait to drive one of these.
6MT with leatherette, Roundel on the hood and RWD for 30k ish?
Dayum...
January 14, 2013, 7:49 pm
January 14, 2013, 8:00 pm
BJ
January 14, 2013, 8:29 pm
So much for the 3 series being a status symbol, any schmuck can now drop the daily Starbucks latte and lease one of these instead.
January 14, 2013, 8:35 pm
Some of you are really over thinking this.
The existence of 320i allows BMW to move up the lease entry point on the 328i. Even by as little as $20 or $30 a month... at the volume they are doing, this is a significant profit driver. When you introduce a lower price option on an otherwise established product line, it is usually to signal to the consumers that the new middle priced option is the one they should go for. It's a tried and tested pricing strategy. You slice and dice the current 328i buyers... the ones looking for the stripper model will be very happy with 320i and the one that prefers lots of options will see that 328i still offers a compelling value proposition.
For sure BMW will carefully controlled the availability of 320i to the point so that it doesn't overtake the sale of more profitable 328i.
The end game here is raise the actual residual and/or lower the stated residual on the 328i (i.e. close the residual gap) so BMWFS doesn't have to eat $3,000 on each lease return.
January 14, 2013, 8:45 pm
The existence of 320i allows BMW to move up the lease entry point on the 328i. Even by as little as $20 or $30 a month... at the volume they are doing, this is a significant profit driver. When you introduce a lower price option on an otherwise established product line, it is usually to signal to the consumers that the new middle priced option is the one they should go for. It's a tried and tested pricing strategy. You slice and dice the current 328i buyers... the ones looking for the stripper model will be very happy with 320i and the one that prefers lots of options will see that 328i still offers a compelling value proposition.
For sure BMW will carefully controlled the availability of 320i to the point so that it doesn't overtake the sale of more profitable 328i.
The end game here is raise the actual residual and/or lower the stated residual on the 328i (i.e. close the residual gap) so BMWFS doesn't have to eat $3,000 on each lease return.
January 14, 2013, 8:52 pm
BJ
There is a recent survey of the ATS drivers showing there is a very good chance the average age of the ATS drivers is much lower than that of the F30 drivers. As I said BMW needs to lower the average age of its drivers. Introducing the 320i might help.
Can you imagine an average BMW driver older than a Caddy driver?
January 14, 2013, 8:53 pm
January 14, 2013, 9:05 pm
I guess it's all perspective and expectations.
January 14, 2013, 9:07 pm
The 328 doesn't touch the 335 in regards to performance. I don't care about 60 times and the quarter, however in regards to driving feel, the 328 was laggy and weak, which was the primary reason I went with the 335 over the 328.
This model doesn't make much sense to me either, 4K drop for losing 60HP? I don't get it, but I understand BJs point. It allows those on the fence for a 328, an option to still get into a new BMW. I still say, if you can't afford the 3 series, drop to a 1, or find something else to drive.
January 14, 2013, 9:07 pm
That's a great point boltja. I'm glad my E90 is a lease!
January 14, 2013, 9:20 pm
That said, I'm quite intrigued by this vehicle. In my mind, it actually may be more fun than my present 335i and more practical for me. 320i Sport with 6speed, don't care about leather, some tech goodies and I'm good to go. You'll also have the usual performance guru's work over the engine with not much trouble. Can't wait to drive...
January 14, 2013, 9:23 pm
Might also signal the end of the 335i completely. The 328i is only a hair less performance positive than the 335i right now is anyway. The 328i can become the top-of-the-line, the 320i the new bottom.
BJ
January 14, 2013, 10:00 pm
Several years ago I rented on business a 3 Series in Germany with the 1.8l gas engine and 5 or 6 speed manual transmission, cloth seats, manually adjustable, with basically no options. It was a rental etc. i wasn't comparing this to any other car just driving around on my commute and making the most of the car on the windy roads etc. The car was a figging blast, loved it! Just a basic BMW with a small engine. But it was fun and that was all that mattered. And to someone on a lower budget this is why the 320 can do well.
January 14, 2013, 10:17 pm
Big player here, Paul Miller Audi, 39 A4's on the site, ALL Quattro, lowest MSRP $36k and change.
January 14, 2013, 10:37 pm
edit: NEVERMIND, bad info.
January 14, 2013, 11:34 pm
January 14, 2013, 11:49 pm
If BMW develops a 2 cylinder car that outperforms the F30 the way the 4 cylinder car outperforms the E90, BJ will be all over it.
BJ
January 15, 2013, 12:34 am
335i lines up nicely against the competitors, e.g. Audi's S4, so 335i probably won't go away. It is interesting to read the headlines that BMW is bringing 320d to US in 2013, this can further expand the market share of F30.
January 15, 2013, 12:35 am
January 15, 2013, 12:36 am
The 328 doesn't touch the 335 in regards to performance. I don't care about 60 times and the quarter, however in regards to driving feel, the 328 was laggy and weak, which was the primary reason I went with the 335 over the 328.
This model doesn't make much sense to me either, 4K drop for losing 60HP? I don't get it, but I understand BJs point. It allows those on the fence for a 328, an option to still get into a new BMW. I still say, if you can't afford the 3 series, drop to a 1, or find something else to drive.
But it's interesting that the sport package has body-colored mirrors and an M-sport wheel! That's better than the 328i and 335i.
January 15, 2013, 12:38 am
Great, now the school parking lot will be even more flooded with F30s on lease! I wonder how many chicks back home in SFLA fresh out of high school/college will convince their parents to lease them one of these? I wonder if people would still buy a bimmer if they put a lawn mower engine in it?
Honestly though, BMW has some stiff competition on the horizon though:
Check out the Garmin-esque navigation in the CLA. (If you're not checking out something else...)
January 15, 2013, 12:48 am
That CLA is a great looking car. Is that the new Mercedes entry level model?
January 15, 2013, 12:48 am
Wait no one else catch a no line with msport interior?!
January 15, 2013, 12:52 am
January 15, 2013, 12:55 am
looks pretty good
Sent from my XT557 using Bimmer App
January 15, 2013, 6:59 am
January 15, 2013, 9:12 am
I think its VERY funny to all the posters who are concerned about ruining the "status" effect of a 3 series.
Is that why you really bought/leased a BMW?
I surely hope not, now every tom, dick and harry with any sort of job can buy a brand new, stripper BMW for low $30s and get the same dealership, maintenance and warranty experience as you "luxury car" snobs.
But to those who recognize that power isn't everything, this is a great opportunity to avoid paying nearly $50k for what has become a bloated, techno-laden compact car.
You can now get a nicely equipped, i.e. manual trans, xenons, a few other important options....for low $30s.
the deal should be great on euro delivery.
January 15, 2013, 9:27 am
Is that why you really bought/leased a BMW?
I surely hope not, now every tom, dick and harry with any sort of job can buy a brand new, stripper BMW for low $30s and get the same dealership, maintenance and warranty experience as you "luxury car" snobs.
But to those who recognize that power isn't everything, this is a great opportunity to avoid paying nearly $50k for what has become a bloated, techno-laden compact car.
You can now get a nicely equipped, i.e. manual trans, xenons, a few other important options....for low $30s.
the deal should be great on euro delivery.
January 15, 2013, 9:31 am
The northern half of the country buys the AWD versions. The southern half barely stocks any.
January 15, 2013, 9:43 am
January 15, 2013, 9:45 am
Some people have driven the smaller engine BMWs and loved them.
Gosh, you can even love the car if it doesn't have Pandora and email functionality.
Its no secret that BMW has intentionally changed its marketing recently, and the current F30 is a bit softer and more luxury focused.
Its hard to complain, especially since their salesa are booming, average age of a BMW driver is 48 years old, with more than half women...
January 15, 2013, 10:44 am
January 15, 2013, 10:55 am
180 hp is what my old car had, its a downgrade. If this is just a de-tuned engine and a chip will bring back the 240, I may be tempted to get one.
January 15, 2013, 11:00 am
and another thing to remember, this is nothing new, the canadians have had this exact model for a while.
We see them all the time here in detroit, since we are 1/2 hour from Windsor.
Smaller engines have been sold in Canada and every other market in the world for a long time now.
January 15, 2013, 11:01 am
January 15, 2013, 11:05 am
January 15, 2013, 11:13 am
Is that why you really bought/leased a BMW?
I surely hope not, now every tom, dick and harry with any sort of job can buy a brand new, stripper BMW for low $30s and get the same dealership, maintenance and warranty experience as you "luxury car" snobs.
But to those who recognize that power isn't everything, this is a great opportunity to avoid paying nearly $50k for what has become a bloated, techno-laden compact car.
You can now get a nicely equipped, i.e. manual trans, xenons, a few other important options....for low $30s.
the deal should be great on euro delivery.
January 15, 2013, 11:22 am
One more rant regarding the arrival of N20i, plus the other new models coming to the USA, BMW is becoming VW or worse GM!
January 15, 2013, 11:37 am
January 15, 2013, 11:41 am
Of course, the affordability of a car is all relative. If you take 2 people making the exact same amount of money, chances are you'll get 2 completely different answers in terms of what's affordable or not.
January 15, 2013, 11:45 am
While I definitely think that more choice is better for the consumer, what is the motivation for the 320i other than lower entry price? It might make sense if cars were taxed by horsepower.
Normally, buying a less expensive car gets you lower maintenance costs, but that does not appear to be the case with the 320i -- MPG, cost of servicing, tires, etc. -- are probably all going to be identical to the 328i.
January 15, 2013, 12:31 pm
This model has proved to be more successful outside of US of A so far.
January 15, 2013, 12:56 pm
Is that why you really bought/leased a BMW?
I surely hope not, now every tom, dick and harry with any sort of job can buy a brand new, stripper BMW for low $30s and get the same dealership, maintenance and warranty experience as you "luxury car" snobs.
But to those who recognize that power isn't everything, this is a great opportunity to avoid paying nearly $50k for what has become a bloated, techno-laden compact car.
You can now get a nicely equipped, i.e. manual trans, xenons, a few other important options....for low $30s.
the deal should be great on euro delivery.
BJ
January 15, 2013, 1:22 pm
Here in Toronto, if you see 3 series from a distance, good bet it will be 323 or 320, and if you get closer, most or the time it is true. You recognize them in the rear view mirror buy the absence of the corona rings.
But Canadians are paying for them as much or more as Americans paying for 328.
Just saying..
January 15, 2013, 1:38 pm
But Canadians are paying for them as much or more as Americans paying for 328.
Just saying..
January 15, 2013, 1:39 pm
January 15, 2013, 1:43 pm
Tim
January 15, 2013, 2:41 pm
I welcome the 320i, this almost gets me into a new BMW for once. At least I could afford one with low low miles in a couple years. This is aimed at people like me. Can't quit afford a 328i or 335i.
Thanks BMW.
January 15, 2013, 2:49 pm
Thanks BMW.
January 15, 2013, 2:50 pm
Tim
January 15, 2013, 3:20 pm
Honestly, I'm surprised it took them this long to do this.
Doesn't anyone remember the 318ti E36?
The fact that is get's the same milage as the 328i is pretty lame though.
I'll be curious to see the pricing of the 320d.
January 15, 2013, 3:36 pm
People on this forum already talked about this, but back in the 80s and early 90s, you could get really stripped down versions of the 3...cloth seats, a crappy sound system, and not a lot of gadgets, but people loved them.
It wasn't really until the e90 that the 3 went up market.
January 15, 2013, 4:25 pm
People on this forum already talked about this, but back in the 80s and early 90s, you could get really stripped down versions of the 3...cloth seats, a crappy sound system, and not a lot of gadgets, but people loved them.
It wasn't really until the e90 that the 3 went up market.
Upgraded features like leather seating were not available in a 3 Series. You had to go up to a 5 Series or better to get creature comforts.
January 15, 2013, 4:36 pm
Interestingly, a few days before the news, I had stated in one of the ATS threads here that Caddy had a chance if they could undercut the 3 series, and allow many younger first time luxury buyers to enter this segment by starting with a Caddy. Apparently BMW saw the same threat.
The average 3 driver is getting older, in part because the price is getting higher, which tends to keep first timers away. Yet the luxury brands have to recruit those young drivers to stay in the game in the long run.
In the past BMW might have counted on the 1 series to take on that duty, but it did not work too well. People who have been driving Camry and Accord, or even Corrolla and Civic, will have to size it down to fit in a 1 series.
January 15, 2013, 4:43 pm
Interestingly, a few days before the news, I had stated in one of the ATS threads here that Caddy had a chance if they could undercut the 3 series, and allow many younger first time luxury buyers to enter this segment by starting with a Caddy. Apparently BMW saw the same threat.
The average 3 driver is getting older, in part because the price is getting higher, which tends to keep first timers away. Yet the luxury brands have to recruit those young drivers to stay in the game in the long run.
Cadillac has its Buick. Acura has its Honda. Lexus has its Toyota. BMW has no step-down brand so it has to do the heavy lifting itself. Fortunately, there is enough differentiation in the 3 Series to make one variant different than another. It also makes the strategy of the various Lines come more clearly into focus. "If you want a Modern line or a Luxury line or the Technology package, you need a 328i, sir."
BJ
January 15, 2013, 4:46 pm
People on this forum already talked about this, but back in the 80s and early 90s, you could get really stripped down versions of the 3...cloth seats, a crappy sound system, and not a lot of gadgets, but people loved them.
I'm all for washing away the status-symbol stigma acquired during the Yuppie era and allowing the basic goodness of the cars to once again dominate the brand image. The BMW CCA did not become the largest single-marque car club on the planet by spending decades telling anyone who would listen how a BMW would impress their neighbors. We told anyone who would listen how much a BMW would impress its driver. Like a game of telephone, the true message got distorted as it spread.
January 15, 2013, 4:53 pm
I'm all for washing away the status-symbol stigma acquired during the Yuppie era and allowing the basic goodness of the cars to once again dominate the brand image. The BMW CCA did not become the largest single-marque car club on the planet by spending decades telling anyone who would listen how a BMW would impress their neighbors. We told anyone who would listen how much a BMW would impress its driver. Like a game of telephone, the true message got distorted as it spread.
But there's a word of caution and it's a pretty big one. And that is that back 20 years ago if you bought a 3 Series you got the legendary tight sporty handling as standard equipment. Today, you have to pay for it. You need to get the Sport line and you need the DHP at a minimum. I love the handling in the new standard suspension, but that's because it's softer and easier for me to use in a crowded city with crappy roads like Manhattan.
Someone who is looking forward to an inexpensive 3 Series that gets 'back to its roots' will be sorely disappointed without these pricey options, and the loss of horsepower isn't very performance-enthusiastic either. BMW launched the 320i to be an inexpensive luxury car, not a grass roots pocket rocket. You want that legendary sporty ride, you have to pay for it. Pay a lot for it, in fact.
BJ
January 15, 2013, 4:54 pm
I'm all for washing away the status-symbol stigma acquired during the Yuppie era and allowing the basic goodness of the cars to once again dominate the brand image. The BMW CCA did not become the largest single-marque car club on the planet by spending decades telling anyone who would listen how a BMW would impress their neighbors. We told anyone who would listen how much a BMW would impress its driver. Like a game of telephone, the true message got distorted as it spread.
January 15, 2013, 5:00 pm
January 15, 2013, 5:07 pm
Back in the day, a 180hp 3 would be a dream come true. I don't even think the M variants hit 200hp.
But BJ's point about handling is fair.
Flashback to the 80s and people were buying 160hp 325s. Great handling; stripped down, not a lot of gadgets, and they were loved by enthusiasts.
They also became a status symbol in the 80s, because they were really out-of-reach for most people back then. Base price was low $30s back then, and you got a lot less for your money than you do now.
EDIT: Sort of interesting that the 320i is coming in with the same base price that the 1988 325 had.
January 15, 2013, 5:45 pm
But BJ's point about handling is fair.
Flashback to the 80s and people were buying 160hp 325s. Great handling; stripped down, not a lot of gadgets, and they were loved by enthusiasts.
They also became a status symbol in the 80s, because they were really out-of-reach for most people back then. Base price was low $30s back then, and you got a lot less for your money than you do now.
EDIT: Sort of interesting that the 320i is coming in with the same base price that the 1988 325 had.
"In the mid 1970s, BMW faced the task of replacing its aging 2002 coupe. But the company also knew that the 2002 embodied the company's spirit. As such, the 2002's replacement would need to keep that spirit intact while modernizing in other respects.
BMW picked a ripe moment in history to introduce the first 3 Series generation, internally designated E21. The world was just coming off the shock of the oil embargo as the first one rolled off the Milbertshofen assembly line on May 2, 1975, and people who never would have considered a smaller car now found the idea of a fun and frugal machine irresistible. In 1974, BMW sold 184,330 cars, but bolstered by the European introduction of the 3 Series in 1975, worldwide sales reached 221,298. The 3 Series hit North America as a 1977 model, and that pushed BMW production over 290,000 that year and beyond 320,000 in 1978.
The only E21 model available Stateside was the 320i. It was marginally larger than the outgoing 2002 (at 100.9 inches, the 3's wheelbase was 2.5 inches longer and the car's 177.5-inch overall length was 1.5 inches longer), and that extra size imbued it with a more stable, yet still easygoing character. As a direct successor to the 2002, the 320i was still available only as a two-door and carried over most of the styling themes established by that car, such as the forward-leaning grille, clipped rear side windows and low beltline.
Under the skin, the car was an evolutionary step up from the 2002. Basic elements like the MacPherson strut front and trailing arm rear suspension and front disc/rear drum power braking system differed in detail and specification, but were similar in overall design. For power, the car had a 2.0-liter Bosch K-Jetronic fuel-injected inline-4 rated at 110 horsepower; it met emissions regulations without a catalytic converter. The standard transmission remained a Getrag four-speed manual, while a ZF three-speed automatic was optional.
The evolution of the American-market E21 320i was incremental. In 1980, the engine shrank to 1.8 liters (though the name remained 320i) and BMW added a three-way catalytic converter to the emissions control system. Though it now produced just 100 hp, the 1.8's performance deficit was ameliorated somewhat by the adoption of a five-speed manual transmission. In any event, this change did not dampen America's enthusiasm for the car, as sales continued to climb, spurred by BMW's growing reputation and a second oil embargo in 1979. As the last few E21s dribbled out of dealer showrooms in 1983, BMW had firmly established its 3, 5 and 7 Series sedan product mix and was ready to move all of its products progressively upmarket throughout the rest of the decade."
January 15, 2013, 6:24 pm
Wow...very interesting read! Thanks for posting this!
January 15, 2013, 6:32 pm
January 15, 2013, 6:40 pm
The base 3-series has been putting out nearly 180hp (or more) for about 25 years and in many platforms weighing significantly less. The 180hp would be crap except it comes on from a very broad torque curve.
Put another way: the base 4-cylinder honda accords have been putting out about 180hp for almost a decade now
From an actual value-to-performance perspective, I'll only understand it if you get a nice bump in MPG. Otherwise it's just a deliberately de-tuned n26....?
January 15, 2013, 6:41 pm
January 15, 2013, 6:47 pm
Put another way: the base 4-cylinder honda accords have been putting out about 180hp for almost a decade now
From an actual value-to-performance perspective, I'll only understand it if you get a nice bump in MPG. Otherwise it's just a deliberately de-tuned n26....?
Go dyno a 4 cylinder Accord and see 150whp and 145lbs of tq while this detuned N20 puts down 180whp and 225lbs of tq. That is a substantial difference. But as long as BMW is so pessimistic with their crank ratings, it won't look so on paper.
January 15, 2013, 6:52 pm
The car already sold for over a year in other parts of the country. Mechanically this car is 99.8% identical to it's US 328 counter, so almost nothing to train it's techs on.
Whole new platforms take several years. Something like this, where the ATS specs were everywhere 8 months ago, yeah-that's enough time.
Did you not see how Honda got skewered by the mags with the '12 Civic and had NEW tooling done with bumpers, lights, interior etc all for the '13 model year. You think BMW can't take an existing car and get EPA and the like done(for all you know EPA numbers being identical to the 328 might mean a half assed speed through) in under a year?
January 15, 2013, 6:58 pm
There were similar lower cost e90 class models available all over the globe too, just not in the US.
But I agree that this was probably in the plan all along. They probably decided a couple years back that the 320 would hit the US shores in 2013. They didn't just come up with this idea yesterday. The ATS took several years of development too...
January 15, 2013, 7:13 pm
Some of you are really over thinking this.
The existence of 320i allows BMW to move up the lease entry point on the 328i. Even by as little as $20 or $30 a month... at the volume they are doing, this is a significant profit driver. When you introduce a lower price option on an otherwise established product line, it is usually to signal to the consumers that the new middle priced option is the one they should go for. It's a tried and tested pricing strategy. You slice and dice the current 328i buyers... the ones looking for the stripper model will be very happy with 320i and the one that prefers lots of options will see that 328i still offers a compelling value proposition.
For sure BMW will carefully controlled the availability of 320i to the point so that it doesn't overtake the sale of more profitable 328i.
The end game here is raise the actual residual and/or lower the stated residual on the 328i (i.e. close the residual gap) so BMWFS doesn't have to eat $3,000 on each lease return.
Now, if BMW end up poaching a few customers from Cadillac or Mercedes with a cheaper 320i, that's just gravy on top from their perspective.
January 15, 2013, 7:18 pm
If you find the 320 to be so shocking, just wait until the 340 replaces the 335 in a couple months...
LOL!
January 15, 2013, 7:42 pm
Cadillac has its Buick. Acura has its Honda. Lexus has its Toyota. BMW has no step-down brand so it has to do the heavy lifting itself. Fortunately, there is enough differentiation in the 3 Series to make one variant different than another. It also makes the strategy of the various Lines come more clearly into focus. "If you want a Modern line or a Luxury line or the Technology package, you need a 328i, sir."
BJ
I think it's a smart move for BMW though. Why not get customers in at a lower price point now and then welcome them with open arms when they earn more money and inevitably spend more on their next BMW.
January 15, 2013, 8:09 pm
320i would be a good commuter car, even a good choice for my college bound daughter. We were set on X1 for her. But with 320i, it may be better choice.
January 15, 2013, 8:14 pm
http://club.autohome.com*****bbs/thr...7972169-1.html
January 15, 2013, 8:39 pm
http://club.autohome.com*****bbs/thr...7972169-1.html
January 15, 2013, 8:50 pm
But BJ's point about handling is fair.
Flashback to the 80s and people were buying 160hp 325s. Great handling; stripped down, not a lot of gadgets, and they were loved by enthusiasts.
They also became a status symbol in the 80s, because they were really out-of-reach for most people back then. Base price was low $30s back then, and you got a lot less for your money than you do now.
EDIT: Sort of interesting that the 320i is coming in with the same base price that the 1988 325 had.
I know that there is now an adaptive M Suspenion available on the F30, which was not available on any iteration of the E9x, but are their other options as well. I have heard that the F30 suspensions are not as harsh as the E9x (particularly the sport suspension) but I have not heard that the base F30 does not handle as well as the base E9x.
I have very little experience with the non-sport suspension on the E9x (one brief test drive in a 328i Cabrio) and have never driven any iteration of the F30. I have a reasonable amount of time behind the wheel of a 335is and an E90 M3 with the adaptive M-Package (which I liked a lot). At this point I have had non-RFTs and Koni FSDs on the 335i for so long I really don't remember how it felt in stock form, but I do remember that I hated the way it drove in stock form and am satisfied the way it drives in the form it is in now.
CA
January 15, 2013, 9:08 pm
I know that there is now an adaptive M Suspenion available on the F30, which was not available on any iteration of the E9x, but are their other options as well. I have heard that the F30 suspensions are not as harsh as the E9x (particularly the sport suspension) but I have not heard that the base F30 does not handle as well as the base E9x.
I have very little experience with the non-sport suspension on the E9x (one brief test drive in a 328i Cabrio) and have never driven any iteration of the F30. I have a reasonable amount of time behind the wheel of a 335is and an E90 M3 with the adaptive M-Package (which I liked a lot). At this point I have had non-RFTs and Koni FSDs on the 335i for so long I really don't remember how it felt in stock form, but I do remember that I hated the way it drove in stock form and am satisfied the way it drives in the form it is in now.
CA
By the way, the 320 is on BMWUSA.COM now. It's rated at 7.1 seconds in 0 to 60. Not bad.
It looks you can configure a nice 320 with premium, Nav, sport package, lighting package, driver assist, heated seats for about $44,000. This puts this car well out of reach for a whole lot of people. So it isn't like people currently shopping for a Chevy Malibu, Ford Focus, or Nissan Sentra will suddenly buy one of these instead.
No HK available...
January 15, 2013, 9:39 pm
The thing I was most excited when I saw this is that it looks like in some of the marketing materials the car is in a deep sea blue. Sadly that looks like just marketing, makes me sad.
And has anyone actually optioned out on their website? The premium package is totally different, and doesn't include leather. Includes a lot of things that are standard on the 328/335. The choices are interesting to say the least. But on the positive for not getting the sport suspension with the sport package they give you a discount if you have xDrive.
But now the real question, will it have the new or old Nav when it comes out in spring?
January 15, 2013, 9:42 pm
January 15, 2013, 9:47 pm
The $1300 Sport Package is awesome, you get the suspension, 18" wheels and the M-Sport steering wheel. I hope this becomes an nice alternative to the "lines" to bump up the base 328.
January 15, 2013, 9:50 pm
January 15, 2013, 9:54 pm
January 15, 2013, 9:58 pm
Honestly, this 320 is a real nice option for folks, and this is coming from someone that just ordered a loaded 335 a couple days ago.
January 15, 2013, 10:21 pm
I know that there is now an adaptive M Suspenion available on the F30, which was not available on any iteration of the E9x, but are their other options as well. I have heard that the F30 suspensions are not as harsh as the E9x (particularly the sport suspension) but I have not heard that the base F30 does not handle as well as the base E9x.
I have very little experience with the non-sport suspension on the E9x (one brief test drive in a 328i Cabrio) and have never driven any iteration of the F30. I have a reasonable amount of time behind the wheel of a 335is and an E90 M3 with the adaptive M-Package (which I liked a lot). At this point I have had non-RFTs and Koni FSDs on the 335i for so long I really don't remember how it felt in stock form, but I do remember that I hated the way it drove in stock form and am satisfied the way it drives in the form it is in now.
CA
In order to get rid of the very firm ride, the feeling of every street imperfection, and the pothole explosions that made my kids nauseous, they softened the suspension brilliantly compared to my E90. Potholes glide under the car like butter, but in hard turns the wheels stay absolutely planted, like glue. The tradeoff, it seems, is body roll. Not in everyday driving, not in quick lane-changes on the highway, but in really spirited and severe curves the F30 body leans where it didn't in the E90. Now, I had an E90 M-Sport with XDrive which theoretically has the standard suspension. Perhaps the XDrive is what kept my car from showing any body roll, maybe it was the sport seats, could be an illusion. But my first impressions on my first F30 test drive were a) the car is much faster, b) the torque is crazy better, c) the wheels are still very planted, d) the body leans in severely harsh curves, e) all the pothole explosions are gone.
While I don't own the F30 Sport suspension, the general consensus seems to be that BMW softened the ride too, it's far more civil, but it's not as taut as the E90. Combined with the vague steering that some report, it's not as good as the E90 Sport.
As far as the third iteration, the Adaptive M Suspension, I've read that as-is it's the same as the standard suspension, but when you hit the Comfort button it gets even more soft and when you hit the Sport button it gets even more sporty. Others can comment there.
Lastly is the XDrive suspension which, I've read, is the softest of all the suspensions, even the Base, but with the Adaptive M Suspension gets right back in business.
But....the main point.....any 320i buyer who expects to get the classic BMW taut and punchy Sport suspension without ponying up the cash for the Sport line will be disappointed.
BJ
January 15, 2013, 10:29 pm
I think it's a smart move for BMW though. Why not get customers in at a lower price point now and then welcome them with open arms when they earn more money and inevitably spend more on their next BMW.
The 3 Series has always been two-cars-in-one. Now it's three:
A $50,000 German luxury car.
A $37,000 Entry-level luxury car.
A $30,000 top-of-the line non-luxury car.
To us, we can keep track of it all. It's easy to see the differences between a Line and a no-Line car. The badge on the trunk tells the rest of the story. To Mr. & Mrs. Camry, they just see more BMW's on the road, makes them think there are more people than ever living the dream. Nothing wrong with that.
BJ
January 15, 2013, 10:29 pm
But BJ's point about handling is fair.
Flashback to the 80s and people were buying 160hp 325s. Great handling; stripped down, not a lot of gadgets, and they were loved by enthusiasts.
They also became a status symbol in the 80s, because they were really out-of-reach for most people back then. Base price was low $30s back then, and you got a lot less for your money than you do now.
EDIT: Sort of interesting that the 320i is coming in with the same base price that the 1988 325 had.
The E46 325 had 184 hp at 6,000 rpms and only 175 lb-ft of torque, not until 3,500 rpms.
The E46 325 sold like hotcakes. As is always true with the "lesser" 3er approximately 75% of E46 3ers sold were 325s. They certainly were not eschewed. In 2001 Car & Driver reported 0 - 60 mph in 7.0 seconds with the manual.
So, now the 320i - 180 hp at 5,000 rpms and 200 lb-ft of torque from 1,250 - 4,500 rpms. BMW reports 0 - 60 mph in 7.1 seconds with either the manual or the automatic.
(edit - on BMWUSA they are reporting 181 hp, and 184 lb-ft tq for the manual and 250 lb-ft tq for the automatic.)
The fact that BMWNA is putting the M Sport steering wheel in the Sport package model indicates to me they will probably do the same thing with 328 and 335 Sport line models at some point in the very near future.
I just priced a 320i sport package model and an equivalently equipped 328i Sport line. The 320i was $3,675 less at $44,270 v $47,945. I included the premium pkg, cold weather pkg, lighting pkg, alarm, BMW Assist/enhanced Bluetooth, PDC, rear view camera, and leather as a stand alone option on the 320i.
For value shoppers one benefit the 320i has is that the premium package does not include leather on the 320i, so they can still get all the goodies in the premium package and save an additional $1,450 if they would prefer to stick with leatherette. I'm sure there will be some Bimmerfesters who will be envious of this.
I predict BMW dealers are going to order the 320i in droves....and then sell them in droves.
Hopefully BMWNA will make the HK option available on the 320i.
I like the sport package on the 320i - $1,300 rather than the $2,500 for the Sport line. All the sport package features without the extra money for the Sport line trim items on the 328 and 335.
January 15, 2013, 10:35 pm
I predict BMW dealers are going to order the 320i in droves....and then sell them in droves.
And while we debate engines, the reality is that most car buyers just want a new car and they want it off the lot. I can't tell you how many 535i M-Sport and 335i M-Sport cars I see on the road every day driven by 55 year old moms. They're not enthusiasts, just impatient buyers.
The 320i does three things from a business standpoint. First, clearly, is it sets a new pricepoint to get more customers into the showrooms. Second, it allows people to trade up to a 328i for some of the goodies you can't get on the 320i, will sell more of those too. Thirdly, for those that come in for the $299 lease special who don't want to wait three months for delivery, they can be coaxed into $349 a month for the 328i sitting on the lot and ready to drive away today.
It's as much a marketing ploy to drive traffic to dealerships at competitors expense as it is a way to sell cheap BMW's.
BJ
January 15, 2013, 10:36 pm
Last year, one day after GM published its ATS specs, BMW modified its F30's specs on its website, in particular the 0-60 times were much faster than the day before. You think it was a fluke?
Now the F30 has a base model that undercuts the price of the ATS 2.5L by $545, one day after ATS gets the Car of the Year thing. Maybe it is another coincidence you say, but are you a betting person?
Watch GM doing their part to play this game. It used to be they had the ATS 2.5L for $299/mo. in the commercials, now they have the ATS 2.0T for $299/mo.
January 15, 2013, 10:41 pm
Last year, one day after GM published its ATS specs, BMW modified its F30's specs on its website, in particular the 0-60 times were much faster than the day before. You think it was a fluke?
Now the F30 has a base model that undercuts the price of the ATS 2.5L by $545, one day after ATS gets the Car of the Year thing. Maybe it is another coincidence you say, but are you a betting person?
BMW has the 320i already in production, not like this is some new car. They see that Cadillac is advertising a cheap RWD car to the masses and attempting to create a new market. So they drop their existing 320i in there for a year, toe in the water, see how it goes, and kill two birds with one stone: a) capitalize on GM's advertising awareness and b) torpedo Mercedes, Audi, and Lexus. Good time to do it too- BMW just had the best year ever, lots of numbers to anniversary, might as well stack the deck with a sure-thing.
BJ
January 15, 2013, 10:45 pm
BMW has the 320i already in production, not like this is some new car. They see that Cadillac is advertising a cheap RWD car to the masses and attempting to create a new market. So they drop their existing 320i in there for a year, toe in the water, see how it goes, and kill two birds with one stone: a) capitalize on GM's advertising awareness and b) torpedo Mercedes, Audi, and Lexus.
BJ
Don't steal my logic then pretend it is your own and different from mine
For anyone who is not clear already, I am speculating, I am not saying I know it. We are all in some way speculating, just some have basis, others are pure speculations.
January 15, 2013, 10:49 pm
Don't steal my logic then pretend it is your own and different from mine
January 15, 2013, 10:54 pm
By the way, there will be minimum 4 engine choices when new diesel specs are made public. Great time to be shopping for a new BMW 3 series.
Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Bimmer App
It used to be so much easier. It is brutal nowadays. And with the current glut of inventory, and all of these offerings, combined with buyers who are unwilling to wait 60-90 days for a custom order, and selling for invoice or less. The caliber of qualified CA's is sure to continue to drop.
January 15, 2013, 10:56 pm
January 15, 2013, 10:57 pm
Don't steal my logic then pretend it is your own and different from mine If you like to disagree, then say something different, of your own.
There is no way that BMW would view the Cadillac as a legitimate threat. Current sales bear that out in spades. You think BMW is secretly trying to undermine Cadillac. I think BMW is simply being opportunistic. That's the "opposite" I refer to.
BMW just had the biggest year in their history. They have a cheap 3 Series that sells everywhere else on Earth except the United States. Mercedes Benz just announced a low-end C Class called the CLA that starts at....you guessed it....$30,000.
Hmm. I don't know, maybe, just maybe, that's the car they're taking action against. Ya think?
BJ
January 15, 2013, 11:01 pm
January 15, 2013, 11:02 pm
It used to be so much easier. It is brutal nowadays. And with the current glut of inventory, and all of these offerings, combined with buyers who are unwilling to wait 60-90 days for a custom order, and selling for invoice or less. The caliber of qualified CA's is sure to continue to drop.
For one, get the young buyers in the family, who otherwise will not even consider walking in the BMW showroom, for another, get people in the door with the $30k price, and sell them 328i or 335i.
January 15, 2013, 11:03 pm
Hmm. I don't know, maybe, just maybe, that's the car they're taking action against. Ya think?
BJ
C250 vs. 320i
C300 vs. 328i
C350 vs. 335i
C63 vs. M3/4
CLA may be up against the 1-/2-series.
January 15, 2013, 11:03 pm
Meet the Mercedes Benz CLA Class. A $30,000 4-door entry level German luxury sedan. The existing C Class starts at $36,000.
I don't know, might be that the Germans are going after each other, not really caring at all about the failing sad American wannabe.
BJ
January 15, 2013, 11:05 pm
The E46 325 had 184 hp at 6,000 rpms and only 175 lb-ft of torque, not until 3,500 rpms.
The E46 325 sold like hotcakes. As is always true with the "lesser" 3er approximately 75% of E46 3ers sold were 325s. They certainly were not eschewed. In 2001 Car & Driver reported 0 - 60 mph in 7.0 seconds with the manual.
I also remember not being able to afford one. At $30k plus, they simply were out of my price range. Anyway, back then, they didn't even have close to 180hp. I recall them being around 160HP or less.
January 15, 2013, 11:07 pm
C250 vs. 320i
C300 vs. 328i
C350 vs. 335i
C63 vs. M3/4
CLA may be up against the 1-/2-series.
Or, could be, Mercedes Benz broke the $30,000 4-door barrier; BMW is just competing with it.
I don't think there will be a 1 Series Sedan. Doubt highly that BMW wants a competing $30,000 Sedan to the 320i or to create a trashy $25,000 pricepoint. Methinks the dream of a 1 Series Sedan with E46 dimensions isn't happening. I think the 320i is it.
BJ
January 15, 2013, 11:10 pm
Meet the Mercedes Benz CLA Class. A $30,000 4-door entry level German luxury sedan. The existing C Class starts at $36,000.
I don't know, might be that the Germans are going after each other, not really caring at all about the failing sad American wannabe.
BJ
The failing wannabe might stand a better chance with a V model for people who like cars that look like cartoons.
January 15, 2013, 11:10 pm
Pricing has gotten Ridiculous ..
My E46 29.5k
E90 33k OTD .
I almost sheet to see a 328i 4 cyl for 37K Before options ?
Imo
328 34 k
320 27k
Meanwhile you can get a turbo regal / verano for 10k less and smoke these cars .
Regards ,
DL
January 15, 2013, 11:11 pm
The car already sold for over a year in other parts of the country. Mechanically this car is 99.8% identical to it's US 328 counter, so almost nothing to train it's techs on.
Whole new platforms take several years. Something like this, where the ATS specs were everywhere 8 months ago, yeah-that's enough time.
Did you not see how Honda got skewered by the mags with the '12 Civic and had NEW tooling done with bumpers, lights, interior etc all for the '13 model year. You think BMW can't take an existing car and get EPA and the like done(for all you know EPA numbers being identical to the 328 might mean a half assed speed through) in under a year?
This is just part of BMW's plan to greatly expand volume, it's not a reaction to the #9 player in the luxury sedan business.
January 15, 2013, 11:12 pm
BJ
January 15, 2013, 11:14 pm
Hmm. I don't know, maybe, just maybe, that's the car they're taking action against. Ya think?
BJ
January 15, 2013, 11:14 pm
Regards ,
DL
January 15, 2013, 11:22 pm
I didn't expect this 320i announcement at all. Even MB and their CLA is a different car than the C, different chassis, making it look a bit like a Gran Coupe. I just don't see how a 1 Sedan fits here.
BJ
January 15, 2013, 11:26 pm
This is exactly why BMW is at the top, they don't ignore any potential threat. Caddy has been the loudest taunting BMW in the past year or two, they need to shut them up, while at the same time convince people like you they could care less about the ATS. Not a difficult thing to do with fanboys, but BMW knows they need to sell non-fanboys.
Of course there are other things to consider. But the CLA is not necessarily targeting the exact same market. Yes there will be cross shoppers between F30 and CLA, but if BMW is really serious about the CLA, they would have worked on a new 4-door 1 series model, but FWD. I think they will though. From the intial impression, the CLA could grab a lot of drivers moving up from Camry, Accord, Altima, Civic, Corolla and VWs...who don't know what is the point of an RWD.
When your primary competitor drops a $30,000 el-cheapo luxury car into the market, you have to react. BMW saw the CLA, knew that it could hurt the 3 Series, boom, 320i. Hit a few buttons, ship 'em south of Canada, MB threat neutralized.
BMW responding to Cadillac and the ATS is like McDonald's responding to Michael's Burger Castle and their house special, the Big Mike.
BJ
January 15, 2013, 11:49 pm
When your primary competitor drops a $30,000 el-cheapo luxury car into the market, you have to react. BMW saw the CLA, knew that it could hurt the 3 Series, boom, 320i. Hit a few buttons, ship 'em south of Canada, MB threat neutralized.
BMW responding to Cadillac and the ATS is like McDonald's responding to Michael's Burger Castle and their house special, the Big Mike.
BJ
January 15, 2013, 11:51 pm
408racer. ,
So you have to purchase your dates ? Hmm
DL
January 15, 2013, 11:56 pm
So you have to purchase your dates ? Hmm
DL
....a car that helps me snag the shallow and materialistic babes.
January 16, 2013, 12:05 am
$4,000 is a big deal as is $33,000 price point. Cadillac has its Buick. Acura has its Honda. Lexus has its Toyota. BMW has no step-down brand so it has to do the heavy lifting itself. What I thought might be the 2 Series sedan may never happen now. What would that cost, $25,000?
Very interesting indeed.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 12:12 am
January 16, 2013, 12:13 am
It's a college girl car.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 12:15 am
you can get staggered 18's summer tires on a 320i(sport pkg) but cant get them on a 328 or 335(sport line) lulz
January 16, 2013, 12:16 am
It's a college girl car.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 12:20 am
Overall I think it'll add a lot more confusion to the buying process.
January 16, 2013, 12:22 am
I would definitely not get a leather interior. Keep it simple and fun.
January 16, 2013, 12:25 am
I would definitely not get a leather interior. Keep it simple and fun.
My sister is ready to get out of her e90, i will have to tell her about this. she doesn't need more power.
January 16, 2013, 12:31 am
It's quite a bargain.
January 16, 2013, 12:35 am
January 16, 2013, 12:38 am
...
BJ
If in a few month ATS sales goes 5k+, you eat your words, if it stays at below 3k, I eat my words. Anywhere between 3k and 5k, we both have not much to say.
The question is not if you might have to eat your words, or if I might eat mine, we both have that risk, the question is, how lucky do you feel when you place your bet.
Just be glad BMW is not taking any chances. If they had fanboys like you making plans for them, they'd be eating dust by now.
January 16, 2013, 12:38 am
BJ
Class>Swag
January 16, 2013, 12:39 am
It's quite a bargain.
January 16, 2013, 12:40 am
January 16, 2013, 1:05 am
But there's a word of caution and it's a pretty big one. And that is that back 20 years ago if you bought a 3 Series you got the legendary tight sporty handling as standard equipment. ... You want that legendary sporty ride, you have to pay for it. Pay a lot for it, in fact.
We've been in the midst of an automotive arms race of sorts for the last decade or more. The basic standards of safety, maneuverability and efficiency are now so high--and have been for a while--that manufacturers pile on near-ridiculous levels of gadgetry, horsepower and luxury (soft-close doors, anyone? heated/cooled cup holders?) simply to keep trumping the competition. In the US at least, the focus seems to have become pitching to the buyer how you have more stuff than Brand X, not how you are different from Brand X.
The problem is that among the premium brands, all three attributes have been escalating more or less in lockstep. The 3er (any BMW, really) is bigger and more luxurious and more powerful and more gadget-laden than its predecessors (and "lesser" cars, whatever those are)...when all it really needs to be, to justify that price and carry the torch of the BMW brand, is better: Better to drive. Day in, day out, in widely varying conditions and applications. Not necessarily faster, or quicker, or sharper-handling, or cushier or prettier or even more tech-laden, but better balanced. Easy to control. Forgiving to an indifferent driver, responsive to an enthusiast. Not fatiguing on long trips. In short, the Ultimate Driving Machine--not in the sense of being dominant over all others, but in being your most likely pick if you could only choose one.
The failed "Joy" ad campaign tried to convey that. The German tagline, »Freude am Fahren« didn't quite translate but that's what it's really about. That's what I mean by getting back to the roots. I think there is room to strip away some of the beat-the-other-guy "moreness" and re-expose the core attributes of a BMW to a wider audience. It will still cost more, it will still be aspirational, it will still be hard to explain to someone who's never owned one why you go bonkers for it, why it's worth the price...but more buyers will be able to find out for themselves.
It used to be so much easier. It is brutal nowadays. And with the current glut of inventory, and all of these offerings, combined with buyers who are unwilling to wait 60-90 days for a custom order, and selling for invoice or less.
One thought, though: Compared the E46, I can easily point out a half-dozen or more small changes in the E90 and F30 that give direct evidence of BMW NA's struggle to hold the 3er at a competitive price point. I am sure there are more that escaped my notice. Despite the sales volumes, it seems the cars have been creeping too far upmarket for their own good. Perhaps a new entry-level model within the Series will offset that trend. As another poster noted, it seems to be working for the 5 Series.
Meet the Mercedes Benz CLA Class. A $30,000 4-door entry level German luxury sedan. ... I don't know, might be that the Germans are going after each other, not really caring at all about the failing sad American wannabe.
January 16, 2013, 1:12 am
It used to be so much easier. It is brutal nowadays. And with the current glut of inventory, and all of these offerings, combined with buyers who are unwilling to wait 60-90 days for a custom order, and selling for invoice or less. The caliber of qualified CA's is sure to continue to drop.
January 16, 2013, 1:17 am
Mini is a completely different type of car and I doubt too many people are cross shopping them with either BMW, Infiniti or Lexus.
CA
January 16, 2013, 3:30 am
BJ
January 16, 2013, 3:51 am
One compelling feature the 320i offers, a Sport Package. Any word if we're going to see this being offered throughout all of the Lines?
January 16, 2013, 5:36 am
I really dont see them negating the sport line or the line concept in general by offering a redundant sport package anytime in the near future. Unless they drop the lines altogether for the 328 and 335, which seems doubtful.
The big question is the M steering wheel. Will that be available on the sport line in the future?
Getting the M steering wheel as part of the sport package is a huge win for the 320 folks.
January 16, 2013, 5:41 am
MINI caters to a small, specialized niche market.
January 16, 2013, 6:01 am
The fact that I have a daughter going to college that has tons of friends in college, and have recently visited dozens of colleges as part of the process of deciding where she goes to college makes me somewhat of an expert.
I can assure you that 99% of young college women don't drive an e90, F30 328 or a MINI. Pick any campus at all that has thousands of young women, and I think you would be very hard pressed to find a dozen F30 328s in any parking lot. Will you find 1 or 2? Yes, maybe.
January 16, 2013, 7:46 am
The 320 sounds like a good move, the CLA looks really nice (nicer than the F30 to look at, doubt it'll drive as well).
Driving a 3 series has become like flying premium economy, it's really just economy with a few bells and whistles.
January 16, 2013, 8:02 am
Well, maybe I shouldn't say that. Perhaps I can offer up a 320 and bribe my son into going to a state school instead. It would actually save me money in the long run.
January 16, 2013, 8:12 am
If I was a parent with a kid going to college I'd be all over the 320. It's perfect for them IMO, reliable, affordable, and too fast.
My son turns 16 in 2015 and by then I'll be able to get him a 2011 E90 328i for like $500. My daughter will be 10 by then, I might get a second one just to throw in the backyard for her to play with, park it next to the jungle gym.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 8:15 am
Driving a 3 series has become like flying premium economy, it's really just economy with a few bells and whistles.
But put $50,000 into it, strictly business class.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 9:02 am
But put $50,000 into it, strictly business class.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 9:05 am
Its a good move by BMW. It is very reasonably priced and certainly not slow compared to the competition. This car will be competing against the ATS 2.5, TSX/ILX, C250, IS250, base Q50, some Buicks and so on. Besides a simple software update would put this thing at well over 200 WHP, which IMO is more than plenty.
January 16, 2013, 9:06 am
Of course leasing a stipped down version is always an option, but I personally don't think that really counts...
January 16, 2013, 9:08 am
I really dont see them negating the sport line or the line concept in general by offering a redundant sport package anytime in the near future. Unless they drop the lines altogether for the 328 and 335, which seems doubtful.
The big question is the M steering wheel. Will that be available on the sport line in the future?
Getting the M steering wheel as part of the sport package is a huge win for the 320 folks.
To rephrased the question.
Will the optional Sport Package currently an option on the 320i be offered on the Base and Luxury and Modern Lines as it is in the UK and Europe?
January 16, 2013, 9:30 am
And there you have it. While still inexpensive by BMW standards, the 320i is still a German luxury car bestowed with all the status and envy befitting it's older 3 Series siblings.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 10:22 am
The fact that I have a daughter going to college that has tons of friends in college, and have recently visited dozens of colleges as part of the process of deciding where she goes to college makes me somewhat of an expert.
I can assure you that 99% of young college women don't drive an e90, F30 328 or a MINI. Pick any campus at all that has thousands of young women, and I think you would be very hard pressed to find a dozen F30 328s in any parking lot. Will you find 1 or 2? Yes, maybe.
January 16, 2013, 10:28 am
And there you have it. While still inexpensive by BMW standards, the 320i is still a German luxury car bestowed with all the status and envy befitting it's older 3 Series siblings.
BJ
Time to think about getting a 5 or 7. Some of the smart members here got their 535s at the same payment you got your L328i. How else you satisfy your neighbors' judgment but to move up the food chain?
January 16, 2013, 10:28 am
I alos know a college girl that drives a 328, but that doesn't mean all college girls drive a 328, and that a 328 is a college girl car.
January 16, 2013, 10:38 am
I alos know a college girl that drives a 328, but that doesn't mean all college girls drive a 328, and that a 328 is a college girl car.
I didn't say most college girls drive 3 Series BMWs. I said that there are many in the college campuses that I visited with my kids and also saw when I went to many college football games. My son's girlfriend and most of her sorority drove BMWs. There is a university in Boca Raton, FL where I am an advisor. 25%+ of the cars are 3 Series BMWs (including some M3s). I am shocked everytime I visit the campus.
January 16, 2013, 10:47 am
If you go easy on the options, and do a $500-$1,000 over invoice deal, or even better Euro Delivery, the lease/buy payment would be very low.
You can also easily option up a 328 to $50k.
January 16, 2013, 10:50 am
Getting the M steering wheel as part of the sport package is a huge win for the 320 folks.
January 16, 2013, 10:50 am
I didn't say most college girls drive 3 Series BMWs. I said that there are many in the college campuses that I visited with my kids and also saw when I went to many college football games. My son's girlfriend and most of her sorority drove BMWs. There is a university in Boca Raton, FL where I am an advisor. 25%+ of the cars are 3 Series BMWs (including some M3s). I am shocked everytime I visit the campus.
January 16, 2013, 10:56 am
But, that new entry level Mercedes just might sway a few too.
January 16, 2013, 11:02 am
Time to think about getting a 5 or 7. Some of the smart members here got their 535s at the same payment you got your L328i. How else you satisfy your neighbors' judgment but to move up the food chain?
January 16, 2013, 11:07 am
January 16, 2013, 11:13 am
January 16, 2013, 11:18 am
If you go easy on the options, and do a $500-$1,000 over invoice deal, or even better Euro Delivery, the lease/buy payment would be very low.
You can also easily option up a 328 to $50k.
January 16, 2013, 11:18 am
The grille-mounted star is a huge pet peeve of mine. For the longest time that was the sole preserve of flagship roadsters and coupes (not even E-class based cabriolets or coupes, only SLs and S-class based coupes). Will see if the traditional hood ornament is available with AMG Sport-packaged cars, but I doubt it. That will be a shame.
January 16, 2013, 11:34 am
Lots of people here have posted that they really enjoyed the strippers...
In Europe these are nothing special, and can be had with cloth seats, etc.
It comes standard with bluetooth and other features that were luxury just a few years ago....auto power windows, etc.
I personally have no interest in computers in cars, streaming pandora, email etc.
I can do all of that from my smart phone which gets replaced every two years for a few hundred bucks.
Don't need or want the weight, complexity and cost of those systems in my car.
But BMW is clearly trying to compete on technology, not so much driving experience any more.
Everyone else is doing it too, including Audi, Mercedes, etc. Their ads don't talk about driving so much any more, but more about laser cruise control, email, embrace, traffic, checking weather etc.
There is one reason why they are loving this....PROFIT.
The computers/touchscreens etc automakers put into cars, which are comparable to really an iPad....with weather, gps, traffic, streaming music, etc. cost you thousands of dollars when incorporated into the car....HUGE PROFIT.
Same goes for blind spot, HUD, laser cruise control, all around cameras, yada yada.
This is all now "luxury"
January 16, 2013, 11:40 am
I am an audiophile, and I doubt I would buy a 320i without the HK.
January 16, 2013, 11:51 am
I am an audiophile, and I doubt I would buy a 320i without the HK.
January 16, 2013, 11:52 am
To rephrased the question.
Will the optional Sport Package currently an option on the 320i be offered on the Base and Luxury and Modern Lines as it is in the UK and Europe?
January 16, 2013, 11:52 am
Time to think about getting a 5 or 7. Some of the smart members here got their 535s at the same payment you got your L328i. How else you satisfy your neighbors' judgment but to move up the food chain?
2. My neighbors are all highly educated and understand my car's value. And, again, you keep forgetting the fact that to me my 328i is your Camry, if you looked at my tax return you'd ask my why I'm not in a 6 Gran Coupe. I'm slumming it in a 3 Series. And loving every minute of it.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 11:54 am
And there you have it. While still inexpensive by BMW standards, the 320i is still a German luxury car bestowed with all the status and envy befitting it's older 3 Series siblings.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 11:57 am
I am an audiophile, and I doubt I would buy a 320i without the HK.
January 16, 2013, 12:01 pm
For the first time the horsepower is just another option and something that can be chopped off at a whim for someone who is more concerned with creature comforts or technology.
My mom: Used to drive 3 Series, but now on a fixed income in retirement didn't want a $499 monthly payment for a car optioned where she wanted it, got an Acura TL instead. With the 320i stripper, she can get what she needs plus the unlimited warranty and come in at around $289 a month with a special lease deal and an incentive or two.
My sister: Can afford $499 a year but wanted more options like Technology and didn't want to get over $549 for it. Now she can option-up a 320i to the spec of the 328i she almost bought, cut the horsepower, wind up in a fully-featured 320i for $449.
I know it sounds like heresy to BMW enthusiasts, but to the typical leaser/buyer the ability to trade off HP they don't think they need for Lines and packages that have some value is a big deal. BMW gets off its high-horse on performance, opens up a whole new world of fringe customers and instead of sending customers to Acura and Lexus they actually can start attracting them.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 12:04 pm
If in a typical week I see 10 335i's and 50 328i's now I'll see 5 335i's, 30 328i's, and 40 320i's. Most of the 320i buyers will be 328i E90 owners who are happy to trade horsepower they don't need for comfort features and technology they can appreciate. That's ultimately the endgame here. BMW is no longer forcing someone to choose the badge and crisp handling over options. Now you can cut the performance and add gobs of goodies.
In the end, it's only 15 incremental F30's I'll see, that's 2 per day, not anything I'm going to notice. Some people think I'm in a 328i because it's some 'exclusive' car. I'm not, but it still is.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 12:07 pm
And if the dealbreaker on the lot is putting that buyer into a car with HK, well, they have a few dozen 328i's and 335i's right there for the taking. If you look at the limited options and limited interior materials, the 320i is positioned like a true loss-leader should be. "You want anthracite wood trim, you want grey seats, you want Harmon Kardon, hey, it's only an extra $42 a month. Oh, and you get a more powerful engine too, not that that matters to you."
BJ
January 16, 2013, 12:32 pm
January 16, 2013, 1:40 pm
Is this 320 i th new model that newspapers say ws just released for the US on 1/15/2013 and it is $4,000 less MSRP than the lowest priced other 3 series. But the body exterior is the same dimension, etc?
January 16, 2013, 1:44 pm
January 16, 2013, 1:55 pm
Where is the 320d!?!?!?!?!?
January 16, 2013, 2:04 pm
One big ommission from the 320 available option list is.....
sport auto transmission.
If I can't get the sport tranny, then I won't get the car.
Bummer.
January 16, 2013, 2:06 pm
sport auto transmission.
If I can't get the sport tranny, then I won't get the car.
Bummer.
January 16, 2013, 2:11 pm
I wonder if the newer, tougher gas mileage requirements set by the government is responsible. The 320i passes that requirement. BMW needs more 3 series buyers to offset the bigger BMWs that get poor gas mileage.
I welcome the change.
When is a 316i coming to the U.S.? It would have a 1.6 litre turbo and maybe get 1 mpg better.
January 16, 2013, 2:18 pm
I welcome the change.
When is a 316i coming to the U.S.? It would have a 1.6 litre turbo and maybe get 1 mpg better.
That, and the fact that they'll sell a ton of these.
January 16, 2013, 2:25 pm
That, and the fact that they'll sell a ton of these.
Since we are not taxed by engine size or HP in the US, and the price difference is not that significant, I can't say if the 320i will be a huge success, given that its operational costs are likely to be very similar to a 328i. But we shall see. Since the E36 318ti didn't sell like hot cakes, we didn't see the follow on to that car.
January 16, 2013, 3:10 pm
January 16, 2013, 4:38 pm
Disappointed that the ONE must have feature the misses and I would need, memory power seats, are only available with the Premium Package in the 320i, which forces me into a lot of stuff I don't necessarily need and would assume do without if the goal was to save money. Memory power seats are standard on the 328i, and you can go without all the other package stuff resulting in a car that's only a grand or two more than the 320i with memory seats in the premium package.
Bummer. Nice to have options, though.
My 335i has excessive amounts of performance. It's hard to really enjoy it, so I wouldn't mind having less power. 180hp is a bit light, but JB it up to 200-210 maybe and it'd be about perfect.
What I REALLY REALLY WANT is an F30 335d.
If offered, will be all over one of those and ED it in 2014!
January 16, 2013, 4:42 pm
It just isn't a lot of money so we do it.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 4:53 pm
It just isn't a lot of money so we do it.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 5:07 pm
BTW, on bmwusa.com;
320i, sport & lighting packs, moonroof and heated seats; 37195$
328 sportline, lighting pack, moonroof and heated seats; 42695$
5500$++ difference is not small money!
Big differences with Canada are that we don't have the sport pack and the automatic transmission is a 1600$ option.
January 16, 2013, 5:28 pm
January 16, 2013, 6:03 pm
But to high school and college kids driving 7+ year old BMW's, that $2000 is a big number.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 6:50 pm
It just isn't a lot of money so we do it.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 6:57 pm
But to high school and college kids driving 7+ year old BMW's, that $2000 is a big number.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 7:11 pm
And in BMW's case there is a lot more value and integration but certainly not $2000 worth. But I look at it this way: I got a $1000 discount for taking a test drive. I got a $300 discount for downloading a BMW iPhone app. I got an extra two months lease payment forgiveness. I got free heated seats. I got free heavy-duty winter mats.
So you add that all up, I got the navigation system for free. I know it's not perfect math and you could easily argue that those discounts should've gone to offset other things, but the car just isn't the same without the full Technology package. The Enhanced BT & USB, the HUD, the widescreen LCD, BMW apps, BMW assist. If you wind up in an F30 someday you'll want that stuff.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 7:14 pm
If in a typical week I see 10 335i's and 50 328i's now I'll see 5 335i's, 30 328i's, and 40 320i's. Most of the 320i buyers will be 328i E90 owners who are happy to trade horsepower they don't need for comfort features and technology they can appreciate. That's ultimately the endgame here. BMW is no longer forcing someone to choose the badge and crisp handling over options. Now you can cut the performance and add gobs of goodies.
In the end, it's only 15 incremental F30's I'll see, that's 2 per day, not anything I'm going to notice. Some people think I'm in a 328i because it's some 'exclusive' car. I'm not, but it still is.
BJ
Now if we assume the average profits BMW makes on the above models are $5k for 335i, $4.5K for 328i and $0.5K for 320i, since as stated before it would likely cost about the same to manufacture a base 320i than a base 328i, but a 320i sells for $4k less.
Your happy ending breakdown of the makeup of the F30s above just cost BMW a ton of profit. Did you leave your financial wisdom at your door, or are you just happy to see them make a lot less money? Maybe you are correct you are not much an executive type
January 16, 2013, 7:40 pm
Now if we assume the average profits BMW makes on the above models are $5k for 335i, $4.5K for 328i and $0.5K for 320i, since as stated before it would likely cost about the same to manufacture a base 320i than a base 328i, but a 320i sells for $4k less.
Your happy ending breakdown of the makeup of the F30s above just cost BMW a ton of profit. Did you leave your financial wisdom at your door, or are you just happy to see them make a lot less money? Maybe you are correct you are not much an executive type
And when the number crunchers in Munich ran their models, it showed them that they would sell X million more units and make X million more dollars by launching the 320i. There is also something called a lifetime value model which says that getting a 23 year old buyer at a $4000 loss hurts in 2013 but pays back in buckets by 2023. Retention and owner loyalty are extremely high with BMW, and this car is not designed just to get a quick buck as that's not something that BMW needs right now.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 7:44 pm
So when does the 320i go on sale in the US?
January 16, 2013, 7:54 pm
BJ
January 16, 2013, 7:59 pm
BJ
That was the job of the 1-series.
320i is not necessarely for youngters.
January 16, 2013, 9:13 pm
320i is not necessarely for youngters.
And when/if BMW does eventually sell a smaller rear-drive sedan (2 series probably), my guess is it won't be cheap, it'll be a premium small sedan.
When the 1 series moves to front drive, then you'll have a cheap BMW. I'd rather they didn't go that route, they'll become like VW, but it seems to be their plan.
January 16, 2013, 9:13 pm
And when/if BMW does eventually sell a smaller rear-drive sedan (2 series probably), my guess is it won't be cheap, it'll be a premium small sedan.
When the 1 series moves to front drive, then you'll have a cheap BMW. I'd rather they didn't go that route, they'll become like VW, but it seems to be their plan.
The 320i is it.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 9:15 pm
I really don't see the 320i being a loss leader - to get a stripped one you'll have to order that, which few people do. It seems to be (a) making HP an option, expanding buyer choice, and (b) to get buyers into the showroom thinking they'll spend $33k, and having them drive out in a $40k car.
January 16, 2013, 9:17 pm
The 320i is it.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 9:17 pm
And when/if BMW does eventually sell a smaller rear-drive sedan (2 series probably), my guess is it won't be cheap, it'll be a premium small sedan.
When the 1 series moves to front drive, then you'll have a cheap BMW. I'd rather they didn't go that route, they'll become like VW, but it seems to be their plan.
Sent from my XT557 using Bimmer App
January 16, 2013, 9:18 pm
Did a build on bmwusa.com on a base 320i with ZPP, leather, and fold-down seat(standard in 328i) to match with a base 328i with ZPP only, and the MSRP difference is $2300. So it boils down to $2k for 60+HP, not a bad deal for 328i.
320i ZPP(which shows the missing gadgets in base 320i)
• Auto-dimming rearview mirror
• Auto-dimming interior and exterior mirrors
• Storage package
• Comfort Access keyless entry
• Power front seats with driver seat memory
• Satellite radio with 1 year subscription
• Universal garage-door opener
• Lumbar support
• Moonroof
January 16, 2013, 9:36 pm
Sounds pretty good to me. Have been pricing 2005 328 wagons and they ask for about 3K. A brand new 329d at 33K seems pretty good to me. But in the end it's the buyer's decision. Do you want it or not? your choice
January 16, 2013, 9:50 pm
The 4 Coupe is $40,000.
The 1 Coupe is $31,000.
The 328i Sedan is $38,000.
The 320i Sedan is $30,000.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 9:50 pm
There is a recent survey of the ATS drivers showing there is a very good chance the average age of the ATS drivers is much lower than that of the F30 drivers. As I said BMW needs to lower the average age of its drivers. Introducing the 320i might help.
Can you imagine an average BMW driver older than a Caddy driver?
Adding to that, the age of the people in the ads. I haven't seen an ATS ad (any channel) with someone older than 35 driving.
January 16, 2013, 9:56 pm
Adding to that, the age of the people in the ads. I haven't seen an ATS ad (any channel) with someone older than 35 driving.
This has happened before, and it doesn't end well.
For decades, Cadillac has tried the "we are for young people!" ad campaigns and they bomb. Time and time again, their core customers don't buy the smaller car and the customers they aspire to attract ignore them because of the old-man stigma of the brand. They spend millions, they make a big media splash, they win a lot of awards, they get the obligatory "3 Series Killer?" bylines, same result.
So far, sales of the ATS support that this is another bust by GM. Ask any kid in college, he doesn't want to drive a Cadillac. Ask any recent graduate, he doesn't want to drive a Cadillac. Ask any up and coming executive, he can't be seen in a Cadillac. Its what it is.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 10:02 pm
The 4 Coupe is $40,000.
The 1 Coupe is $31,000.
The 328i Sedan is $38,000.
The 320i Sedan is $25,000.
So what's the price of a 1 Sedan? Has to be less than the 3 Sedan whose floor is $25,000. But can't be too significant a jump to the 1 Coupe which starts at $31,000. The 'missing' pricepoint that the 1 Sedan might have hit is $25,000 and I can't see BMW having two 4-door Sedan's at $25,000 just because one is smaller and the other larger. Doesn't make sense.
BMW knew that the CLA was coming and they didn't build something to counter it. They instead took a full-sized 3 Series and de-spec'd it to hit a pricepoint. Put another way, perhaps only if the 320i fails will BMW replace it with a 1 Sedan. Just isn't enough wiggle room on pricing. The 320i just gobbled it up.
BJ
I think the small sedan will be a 2 series Gran Coupe, so it'll be higher priced than just a basic small sedan. Maybe similar to the 1 series in price.
January 16, 2013, 10:05 pm
The 4 Coupe is $40,000.
The 1 Coupe is $31,000.
The 328i Sedan is $38,000.
The 320i Sedan is $25,000.
So what's the price of a 1 Sedan? Has to be less than the 3 Sedan whose floor is $25,000. But can't be too significant a jump to the 1 Coupe which starts at $31,000. The 'missing' pricepoint that the 1 Sedan might have hit is $25,000 and I can't see BMW having two 4-door Sedan's at $25,000 just because one is smaller and the other larger. Doesn't make sense.
BMW knew that the CLA was coming and they didn't build something to counter it. They instead took a full-sized 3 Series and de-spec'd it to hit a pricepoint. Put another way, perhaps only if the 320i fails will BMW replace it with a 1 Sedan. Just isn't enough wiggle room on pricing. The 320i just gobbled it up.
BJ
You seem to suggest BMW did not plan this well, even though they know what they are doing. Both MB and Audi have smaller FWD sedans coming, only MB's CLA comes out first. So maybe the 320i is just a stop gap measure at the expense of lowered profit?
The reason a small RWD sedan does not work is because there is not enough room. If BMW is really trying to match the effort of MB and Audi, then don't be surprised they unveil a small FWD sedan later, unrelated to the 320i.
January 16, 2013, 10:08 pm
This has happened before, and it doesn't end well.
For decades, Cadillac has tried the "we are for young people!" ad campaigns and they bomb. Time and time again, their core customers don't buy the smaller car and the customers they aspire to attract ignore them because of the old-man stigma of the brand. They spend millions, they make a big media splash, they win a lot of awards, they get the obligatory "3 Series Killer?" bylines, same result.
So far, sales of the ATS support that this is another bust by GM. Ask any kid in college, he doesn't want to drive a Cadillac. Ask any recent graduate, he doesn't want to drive a Cadillac. Ask any up and coming executive, he can't be seen in a Cadillac. Its what it is.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 10:08 pm
Sent from my XT557 using Bimmer App
Here are the top 10 best selling cars in the UK last year.
Ford Fiesta 109,262
Vauxhall Corsa 89,434
Ford Focus 83,115
Vauxhall Astra 63,023
Volkswagen Golf 62,021
Nissan Qashqai 45,675
BMW 3-Series 44,521
Volkswagen Polo 41,901
Mercedes-Benz C-Class 37,261
BMW 1-Series 34,488
and the top 10 manufacturers (all models)
Ford 281,917
Vauxhall 232,255
Volkswagen 183,098
BMW 127,530
Audi 123,622
Nissan 105,835
Peugeot 99,486
Mercedes-Benz 91,855
Toyota 84,563
Hyundai 74,285
January 16, 2013, 10:10 pm
Adding to that, the age of the people in the ads. I haven't seen an ATS ad (any channel) with someone older than 35 driving.
The ATS-V won’t even have the LS V8 going for it, it’ll be just another anonymous turbo V6. I think I’m pretty unbiased, and I see failure. It’ll sell Lexus numbers, not BMW numbers.
January 16, 2013, 10:12 pm
You seem to suggest BMW did not plan this well, even though they know what they are doing. Both MB and Audi have smaller FWD sedans coming, only MB's CLA comes out first. So maybe the 320i is just a stop gap measure at the expense of lowered profit?
The reason a small RWD sedan does not work is because there is not enough room. If BMW is really trying to match the effort of MB and Audi, then don't be surprised they unveil a small FWD sedan later, unrelated to the 320i.
I think the small sedan will be a 2 series Gran Coupe, so it'll be higher priced than just a basic small sedan. Maybe similar to the 1 series in price.
As far as upscaling it, it's an interesting idea, I might buy one, but if it's smaller than the F30 and more expensive, not sure there are enough customers to support it.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 10:13 pm
The ATS-V won’t even have the LS V8 going for it, it’ll be just another anonymous turbo V6.
January 16, 2013, 10:14 pm
Stats.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 10:16 pm
The ATS-V won’t even have the LS V8 going for it, it’ll be just another anonymous turbo V6. I think I’m pretty unbiased, and I see failure. It’ll sell Lexus numbers, not BMW numbers.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 10:19 pm
The ATS-V won’t even have the LS V8 going for it, it’ll be just another anonymous turbo V6. I think I’m pretty unbiased, and I see failure. It’ll sell Lexus numbers, not BMW numbers.
January 16, 2013, 10:23 pm
The ATS shouldn't have cloned this old design. Instead, should have broken new ground as the very first car of the new Cadillac design language. GM blew that opportunity, played it safe, it looks like a brand new old car which is the antithesis of what the younger crowd is looking for.
Good idea, lots of market share to borrow from others, but really bad execution.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 10:24 pm
Stats.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 10:33 pm
Yay, i get to be a big boy in my 328i now... But very aggressive and savy business move by BMW though. I don't see why this should bother anyone.
January 16, 2013, 10:43 pm
Case in point, this thread.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=638056
January 16, 2013, 10:50 pm
I actually like the ATS, and I really like the CTS coupe, and I really really like the V models.
Only problem for GM is that I prefer BMWs.
January 16, 2013, 10:51 pm
BJ
January 16, 2013, 10:53 pm
Only problem for GM is that I prefer BMWs.
But I can't see any BMW owner stepping down to a Cadillac, and for what? Just to save a few dollars and wind up in a baby CTS? Doesn't make sense for us. Wrong customers, wrong forum.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 11:00 pm
But I can't see any BMW owner stepping down to a Cadillac, and for what? Just to save a few dollars and wind up in a baby CTS? Doesn't make sense for us. Wrong customers, wrong forum.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 11:07 pm
And the fact that so many posters here seem to be so threatened by the ATS and are so determined to denigrated it tells me that Cadillac is onto something.
CA
January 16, 2013, 11:16 pm
It's the first new RWD car in this class in how many years? That's the problem with the ATS. It's designed to be "in the conversation". It's not designed for customers. It's a marketing project, not a great vehicle. If it were, it would be selling. We've been talking about this ridiculous Caddy for over a year, still not a single person is actually driving one or thinking of buying one. We had one person say he took a test drive and wasn't blown away, that's it. That's the sum total of thousands of posts on that ridiculous car.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 11:17 pm
CA
BJ
January 16, 2013, 11:40 pm
CA
January 16, 2013, 11:46 pm
ive driven alotta caddies sure their nice but they are no.BMW
Sent from my XT557 using Bimmer App
January 16, 2013, 11:55 pm
It's not designed for customers. It's a marketing project, not a great vehicle.
BJ
January 17, 2013, 12:03 am
My point was, the CTS-V is special cause of that V8.
January 17, 2013, 12:06 am
It's the first new RWD car in this class in how many years? That's the problem with the ATS. It's designed to be "in the conversation". It's not designed for customers. It's a marketing project, not a great vehicle. If it were, it would be selling. We've been talking about this ridiculous Caddy for over a year, still not a single person is actually driving one or thinking of buying one. We had one person say he took a test drive and wasn't blown away, that's it. That's the sum total of thousands of posts on that ridiculous car.
BJ
January 17, 2013, 12:12 am
http://www.worldcarfans.com/11211085...esign---report
Hopes to increase its appeal in China
Cadillac's Art & Science design philosophy has been a hallmark of the brand ever since the CTS was introduced a decade ago, but a new report is indicating the company will soften its sharp lines and creases to appeal to a broader global audience - most notably China.
Reuters says the brand's distinctive styling is a turnoff in the People's Republic because of cultural leaning towards curvier designs such as those offered by Audi, BMW and Mercedes. This apparently ties into a Confucian concept that stresses harmony with smooth lines and soft curves.
Cadillac seems to agree as the brand's Chinese sales and marketing chief, Kevin Chen, has confirmed many buyers dislike the company's styling because it is too "bold" and "futuristic." This puts Cadillac in an awkward position because Chen said "If you ask our customers what's the motivation for choosing Cadillac, they would say design. If you ask Audi buyers why they don't choose Cadillac, they'd say it's too bold."
Despite this, Chen confirmed the brand will gravitate towards a "modern contemporary design" which will likely be more conservative.
January 17, 2013, 12:21 am
January 17, 2013, 12:26 am
January 17, 2013, 12:27 am
January 17, 2013, 12:29 am
January 17, 2013, 12:31 am
January 17, 2013, 12:37 am
http://www.worldcarfans.com/11211085...esign---report
I personally am not crazy about the ATS styling either, I agree it should be more aggressive, but not hard-edged aggressive.
January 17, 2013, 7:30 am
January 17, 2013, 9:03 am
January 17, 2013, 9:34 am
Stats.
BJ
January 17, 2013, 9:37 am
Case in point, this thread.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=638056
January 17, 2013, 9:40 am
But I can't see any BMW owner stepping down to a Cadillac, and for what? Just to save a few dollars and wind up in a baby CTS? Doesn't make sense for us. Wrong customers, wrong forum.
BJ
Born and raised in Europe. Owned mostly Europeans cars. Will likely upgrade to the ATS in the future.
January 17, 2013, 11:24 am
Stats.
BJ
Good quote:
Lexus was "puzzled" by a discrepancy between BMW's reported sales in July and registrations tracked by Polk, a data supplier that collects such information from state agencies, Mark Templin, U.S. head of Toyota's luxury brand said in an Aug. 8 interview in Palo Alto, California.
"This whole volume fight for No. 1, God bless them if that's what they want to fight for," Templin said. "That's a difficult place for a luxury brand to be. If you're fighting for volume -- your stated No. 1 goal is volume -- I think a lot of bad habits creep into the way you do business."
Also, when the majority of your customers are lease buyers, there is a good recurring model of constant sales. That is why BMW is hard to beat on lease deals / incentives. Too attractive and with the 3 series, affordable for many people.
January 17, 2013, 11:44 am
Good quote:
Lexus was "puzzled" by a discrepancy between BMW's reported sales in July and registrations tracked by Polk, a data supplier that collects such information from state agencies, Mark Templin, U.S. head of Toyota's luxury brand said in an Aug. 8 interview in Palo Alto, California.
"This whole volume fight for No. 1, God bless them if that's what they want to fight for," Templin said. "That's a difficult place for a luxury brand to be. If you're fighting for volume -- your stated No. 1 goal is volume -- I think a lot of bad habits creep into the way you do business."
Also, when the majority of your customers are lease buyers, there is a good recurring model of constant sales. That is why BMW is hard to beat on lease deals / incentives. Too attractive and with the 3 series, affordable for many people.
January 17, 2013, 3:55 pm
Also, when the majority of your customers are lease buyers, there is a good recurring model of constant sales. That is why BMW is hard to beat on lease deals / incentives. Too attractive and with the 3 series, affordable for many people.
January 17, 2013, 4:00 pm
Good quote:
Lexus was "puzzled" by a discrepancy between BMW's reported sales in July and registrations tracked by Polk, a data supplier that collects such information from state agencies, Mark Templin, U.S. head of Toyota's luxury brand said in an Aug. 8 interview in Palo Alto, California.
"This whole volume fight for No. 1, God bless them if that's what they want to fight for," Templin said. "That's a difficult place for a luxury brand to be. If you're fighting for volume -- your stated No. 1 goal is volume -- I think a lot of bad habits creep into the way you do business."
Also, when the majority of your customers are lease buyers, there is a good recurring model of constant sales. That is why BMW is hard to beat on lease deals / incentives. Too attractive and with the 3 series, affordable for many people.
January 17, 2013, 4:14 pm
US is a lucky country
$33K for 320i
$53K here
and 1 AUD =1.05 USD
we got ripped off here
January 17, 2013, 4:52 pm
January 17, 2013, 5:26 pm
But there isn't an Audi dealer close to me, so I automatically rule them out and never consider them.
That's ok. I'll be very happy with the F30.
January 17, 2013, 5:37 pm
January 17, 2013, 5:38 pm
$33K for 320i
$53K here
and 1 AUD =1.05 USD
we got ripped off here
You are lucky. Here in Canada, we are just *raped*.
2800$ standard PDI & fees for over already inflated MSRP, really?
January 17, 2013, 6:25 pm
$33K for 320i
$53K here
and 1 AUD =1.05 USD
we got ripped off here
January 17, 2013, 7:01 pm
Personally I think the 2.0 should had been a diesel with MPGs around 40 highway.
January 17, 2013, 7:08 pm
I think we'll see the 320d too...thought I read about that somewhere a long time ago. In fact the 320i was a bit of surprise.
January 17, 2013, 9:19 pm
is it really true the only difference between 320i and 328i is 185 hp engine in 320i, and due to this $4k price difference, this sounds to good to be true. Acura has also brought a cheaper model starting 25K, it looks like trend, i am not sure it will be successful or not but most of times it has backfired. Jaguar with Xtype, Cadillac with Catera.
If only difference is in the engine then it is very attractive price for buyers. Until it is confirmed by some review i am skeptical about it. it could bring lot of buyers but then it like everyone driving 3 series. i am not sure i like it.
January 17, 2013, 10:06 pm
If only difference is in the engine then it is very attractive price for buyers. Until it is confirmed by some review i am skeptical about it. it could bring lot of buyers but then it like everyone driving 3 series. i am not sure i like it.
January 17, 2013, 10:16 pm
I've revised my thinking and contrary to my earlier position, the 320i will be a success because it attracts buyers, including my wife, who are shopping for a sports sedan that offers value plus performance. Working with the configurator, and being selective with options and packages, the 320i fills the needs many consumers are looking for in an upscale import.
Here's our latest configuration:
320xi BASE MSRP $34,550
Black Sapphire Metallic$550
Black Dakota Leather $1,450
Silver Matte Trim $0
Lighting Package $900
Sport Package $1,000
Heated front seats $500
Split fold-down-rear seat $475
Navigation system $2,150
BMW Assist with enhanced Bluetooth and USB $0
Destination & Handling: $895
Total MSRP as Built $42,470
January 17, 2013, 10:31 pm
Here's our latest configuration:
320xi BASE MSRP $34,550
Black Sapphire Metallic$550
Black Dakota Leather $1,450
Silver Matte Trim $0
Lighting Package $900
Sport Package $1,000
Heated front seats $500
Split fold-down-rear seat $475
Navigation system $2,150
BMW Assist with enhanced Bluetooth and USB $0
Destination & Handling: $895
Total MSRP as Built $42,470
But bottom line is that you'll be able to get it for several thousand cheaper than MSRP if you really work at it.
January 17, 2013, 11:24 pm
But bottom line is that you'll be able to get it for several thousand cheaper than MSRP if you really work at it.
January 17, 2013, 11:28 pm
Here's our latest configuration:
Total MSRP as Built $42,470
As you've discovered, a non-enthusiast can trade off horsepower for packages. That $4,300 difference in the 320i goes a long way to make up for some of the 328i's option shortfalls. You can add Premium, Lighting, and Nav with $1000 to spare vs. a fairly stripped 328i, or you can forgo it all, kill the leather too, and save almost $5,300.
BJ
January 17, 2013, 11:30 pm
Mercedes has the CLA. BMW needed the 320i. The genie is out of the bottle. Brave new world.
BJ
January 17, 2013, 11:41 pm
Mercedes has the CLA. BMW needed the 320i. The genie is out of the bottle. Brave new world.
BJ
Usually you do not introduce a car in a different category to compete with another brand, you build a car in that same category to compete. It would be more logical if you say 320i is here to go head to head with C250.
The genie was never in the bottle, it was just sitting on the other side of the pond all this time.
January 18, 2013, 1:02 am
Usually you do not introduce a car in a different category to compete with another brand, you build a car in that same category to compete. It would be more logical if you say 320i is here to go head to head with C250.
The genie was never in the bottle, it was just sitting on the other side of the pond all this time.
January 18, 2013, 1:04 am
Here's our latest configuration:
320xi BASE MSRP $34,550
Black Sapphire Metallic$550
Black Dakota Leather $1,450
Silver Matte Trim $0
Lighting Package $900
Sport Package $1,000
Heated front seats $500
Split fold-down-rear seat $475
Navigation system $2,150
BMW Assist with enhanced Bluetooth and USB $0
Destination & Handling: $895
Total MSRP as Built $42,470
January 18, 2013, 2:03 am
January 18, 2013, 2:19 am
January 18, 2013, 2:37 am
January 18, 2013, 2:38 am
Nothing to be Jealous about. I've owned two 335's, a 2007 e92 and a 2009 e92, wrecked and lemoned respectively. Been a member here since 2007, just talking to my buddy BoltJames.
January 18, 2013, 3:28 am
January 18, 2013, 10:01 am
January 18, 2013, 1:33 pm
Nothing to be Jealous about. I've owned two 335's, a 2007 e92 and a 2009 e92, wrecked and lemoned respectively. Been a member here since 2007, just talking to my buddy BoltJames.
That was directed at the Lexus marketing whine about how BMW and MB count their sales figures.
January 18, 2013, 4:50 pm
As you've discovered, a non-enthusiast can trade off horsepower for packages. That $4,300 difference in the 320i goes a long way to make up for some of the 328i's option shortfalls. You can add Premium, Lighting, and Nav with $1000 to spare vs. a fairly stripped 328i, or you can forgo it all, kill the leather too, and save almost $5,300.
BJ
I still have the window sticker for my E93.
These features were all extra cost options:
Space Gray Metallic
Cold Weather Package
Premium Package
Sport Package
Steptronic Automatic Transmission
Paddle Shifters
Comfort Access with Comfort Load
Park Distance Control
IPod and USB Adapter
Navigation System
HD Radio
Satellite Radio
Dealer installed options included:
Burl Walnut Shift Lever
Burl Walnut Parking Brake Handle
Style 196 Rims
Front Aero Lip
Wind Deflector
Luggage Set
Aluminum Accelerator, Brake and Dead Pedals
All of this added almost $15,000 to the MSRP of the car.
The only option that had an influence on the way the car drives is the Sport Package because it included the sport suspension. The rest were all bells and whistles that I think make driving (or riding) in the car more pleasant but have no influence on the way the car drives.
CA
January 18, 2013, 5:39 pm
A 320i does not make sense for an American car enthusiast.
It was and still is a substantial seller in countries where you pay an absurd amount of tax on cars with engines above 2 liters (For instance in Turkey, a base 320i costs roughly $70,000 and a base 335i would cost a whopping $195,000 had they offered!)
They started this marketing tactics with the E30 320is for Italy to offer something similar to a standard 325i - and they hit the motherload. From then on, they always offered the smaller engines in the 3 series with success. They are even offering a BMW 316i in those european countries.
But here in the US, the tax difference is not too substantial as both cars are closely priced and the advantage of choosing a smaller engine car is not very big while purchasing. In terms of maintenance and gas mileage, they still don't make too much of a sense as the difference between a 320and a 328 in terms of mpg and maintenance cost is very small.
Also, the car in its base form is not very special and I highly doubt that people concerned with price would switch over to a BMW from a comparable Japanese sedan as they only get a barebone car as opposed to a car with lots of equipment for the same price and better reliability in the long run.
The BMW name may be alluring to some and it may mean that they are stepping up to a higher class car,however, the 320i is the base model of 3 series and you have to pay dearly for even the basic accessories like HID lights, etc. In that respect, the car loses its attraction.
My opinion is that BMW is bringing this car to get a piece of MB and Audi's marketshare from the segment and increase its sales overall. It will also help them with the CAFE regulations in the long run.
January 18, 2013, 6:00 pm
It was and still is a substantial seller in countries where you pay an absurd amount of tax on cars with engines above 2 liters (For instance in Turkey, a base 320i costs roughly $70,000 and a base 335i would cost a whopping $195,000 had they offered!)
They started this marketing tactics with the E30 320is for Italy to offer something similar to a standard 325i - and they hit the motherload. From then on, they always offered the smaller engines in the 3 series with success. They are even offering a BMW 316i in those european countries.
But here in the US, the tax difference is not too substantial as both cars are closely priced and the advantage of choosing a smaller engine car is not very big while purchasing. In terms of maintenance and gas mileage, they still don't make too much of a sense as the difference between a 320and a 328 in terms of mpg and maintenance cost is very small.
Also, the car in its base form is not very special and I highly doubt that people concerned with price would switch over to a BMW from a comparable Japanese sedan as they only get a barebone car as opposed to a car with lots of equipment for the same price and better reliability in the long run.
The BMW name may be alluring to some and it may mean that they are stepping up to a higher class car,however, the 320i is the base model of 3 series and you have to pay dearly for even the basic accessories like HID lights, etc. In that respect, the car loses its attraction.
My opinion is that BMW is bringing this car to get a piece of MB and Audi's marketshare from the segment and increase its sales overall. It will also help them with the CAFE regulations in the long run.
Highest Regards.
January 18, 2013, 6:13 pm
Highest Regards.
January 18, 2013, 7:24 pm
CA
Regarding options, if you think of the 320i as a 328i with a "Performance Delete Package", one can save $4,000-$5,000 by merely taking out the horsepower and the leather.
So, yes, it's not different per se than past BMW 3 Series. However, this is the first time they're reshaping the horsepower and reshaping the Premium package so that someone can comfortably lease at $299, or go no higher than $399 for a very well-optioned car.
BJ
January 18, 2013, 8:35 pm
It was and still is a substantial seller in countries where you pay an absurd amount of tax on cars with engines above 2 liters (For instance in Turkey, a base 320i costs roughly $70,000 and a base 335i would cost a whopping $195,000 had they offered!)
They started this marketing tactics with the E30 320is for Italy to offer something similar to a standard 325i - and they hit the motherload. From then on, they always offered the smaller engines in the 3 series with success. They are even offering a BMW 316i in those european countries.
But here in the US, the tax difference is not too substantial as both cars are closely priced and the advantage of choosing a smaller engine car is not very big while purchasing. In terms of maintenance and gas mileage, they still don't make too much of a sense as the difference between a 320and a 328 in terms of mpg and maintenance cost is very small.
Also, the car in its base form is not very special and I highly doubt that people concerned with price would switch over to a BMW from a comparable Japanese sedan as they only get a barebone car as opposed to a car with lots of equipment for the same price and better reliability in the long run.
The BMW name may be alluring to some and it may mean that they are stepping up to a higher class car,however, the 320i is the base model of 3 series and you have to pay dearly for even the basic accessories like HID lights, etc. In that respect, the car loses its attraction.
My opinion is that BMW is bringing this car to get a piece of MB and Audi's marketshare from the segment and increase its sales overall. It will also help them with the CAFE regulations in the long run.
January 18, 2013, 8:56 pm
January 18, 2013, 9:08 pm
The 320 is not for those who want bling bling (which has nothing to do with driving itself) to go with the car.
January 19, 2013, 12:15 am
Regarding options, if you think of the 320i as a 328i with a "Performance Delete Package", one can save $4,000-$5,000 by merely taking out the horsepower and the leather.
So, yes, it's not different per se than past BMW 3 Series. However, this is the first time they're reshaping the horsepower and reshaping the Premium package so that someone can comfortably lease at $299, or go no higher than $399 for a very well-optioned car.
BJ
With the technology available today there is no reason why a good handling car has to have a rock hard suspension and can not have a comfortable ride. Actually a rock hard suspension is bad for handling if the car is going to be driven in a real world environment. The point being that the fact that the F30 has a softer suspension than the E90 does not necessarily mean that it if not enthusiast oriented or does not handle as well. It it does not handle as well as the E90 it may just point to the fact that the suspension is poorly sorted out. That was certainly the case with the E9x sport suspension except that it was poorly sorted out in a different way.
What I wound up buying with (the 335i) was a sport/luxury car that it terms of ride quality and handling wasn't particularly good in either category. The irony was that it was easily rectified (once I figured out what to do) and if BMW had done it at the factory it probably would have not even added to the cost of manufacturing the car by a significant amount, if it all.
CA
January 19, 2013, 12:25 am
CA
January 19, 2013, 12:32 am
CA
January 19, 2013, 8:01 am
The stripped down models are just targeting the brand conscious buyers. BMW to me was always about Performance + Luxury and the stripped down models are neither. Just get a decked out Accord or Camry and come out ahead with a better car and keep some $$ in your pocket.
January 19, 2013, 9:06 am
CA
January 19, 2013, 9:09 am
January 19, 2013, 9:32 am
January 19, 2013, 9:55 am
.
January 19, 2013, 10:13 am
CA
My recollection was that my XDrive had the standard suspension, correct me please if I'm wrong there.
The F30 is just as planted as my E90 was. In fact, might be stickier in very tight curves at irresponsible speeds; comparing the two I feel more confident in the F30. All 4 wheels are locked-in, the DTC or DSC warning lights don't come on. And, very importantly, the road imperfections and pothole explosions of the E90 are a thing of the past.
The trade off is that the F30 has body lean in those turns that did not exist in the E90. Again, the F30 is planted in hard corners, the wheels do not slip a bit, but the body roll is evident. I assume that to soften the pothole situation the car leans.
Let me know if that makes sense.
BJ
January 19, 2013, 10:22 am
Let me know if that makes sense.
BJ
January 19, 2013, 10:31 am
.
January 19, 2013, 10:35 am
January 19, 2013, 10:36 am
But the body that sits atop that suspension, different. My E90 didn't lean where the F30 does.
I'm not an enthusiast, never even added washer fluid to my car, don't even know where the hood release on the car is, but methinks that something connecting the two bodies to the two suspensions is different and that's why both are equally planted/grippy at the wheels but behave differently at the seats.
BJ
January 19, 2013, 10:48 am
BJ
January 19, 2013, 11:10 am
BJ
January 19, 2013, 11:18 am
BJ
January 19, 2013, 11:42 am
But the body that sits atop that suspension, different. My E90 didn't lean where the F30 does.
I'm not an enthusiast, never even added washer fluid to my car, don't even know where the hood release on the car is, but methinks that something connecting the two bodies to the two suspensions is different and that's why both are equally planted/grippy at the wheels but behave differently at the seats.
January 19, 2013, 11:51 am
I'd be offended if the 320i was my choice for a car and I was looked upon as essentially a "brand whore."
January 19, 2013, 11:58 am
I'd be offended if the 320i was my choice for a car and I was looked upon as essentially a "brand whore."
January 19, 2013, 12:25 pm
BJ
January 19, 2013, 12:40 pm
January 19, 2013, 1:00 pm
January 19, 2013, 1:48 pm
January 19, 2013, 2:10 pm
January 19, 2013, 2:11 pm
January 19, 2013, 2:39 pm
Okay comparing to E92 xdrive -- if I am looking at the F30 sedan do I need
1. Sports line
2. DHP
3. Both?
Heaven forbid I could find one to test drive.
January 19, 2013, 6:03 pm
1. Sports line
2. DHP
3. Both?
Heaven forbid I could find one to test drive.
January 19, 2013, 6:38 pm
Just the other day in my F30 on the drive to the office, I saw a homeless man walking in traffic freezing with a paper cup asking for money. I put down the window, asked him not to touch the car, reached into my Tumi folio, found some loose change, pulled out the quarters, and gave him the rest. Must've been $.13 or so in assorted nickels, dimes, and pennies.
Apologize or don't respond to me again.
BJ
January 19, 2013, 6:59 pm
January 19, 2013, 7:29 pm
...
Apologize or don't respond to me again.
BJ
January 19, 2013, 7:38 pm
January 19, 2013, 7:39 pm
January 19, 2013, 7:59 pm
I like my steering tight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPUHdUMc5Zo
January 20, 2013, 1:35 am
I like my steering tight.
January 20, 2013, 5:42 am
January 20, 2013, 7:22 am
My recollection was that my XDrive had the standard suspension, correct me please if I'm wrong there.
The F30 is just as planted as my E90 was. In fact, might be stickier in very tight curves at irresponsible speeds; comparing the two I feel more confident in the F30. All 4 wheels are locked-in, the DTC or DSC warning lights don't come on. And, very importantly, the road imperfections and pothole explosions of the E90 are a thing of the past.
The trade off is that the F30 has body lean in those turns that did not exist in the E90. Again, the F30 is planted in hard corners, the wheels do not slip a bit, but the body roll is evident. I assume that to soften the pothole situation the car leans.
Let me know if that makes sense.
BJ
January 21, 2013, 9:26 am
BTW, when is the 2 series 4-door "coupe" going to be available? That will be the match for the CLA and A3.
January 21, 2013, 10:56 am
BTW, when is the 2 series 4-door "coupe" going to be available? That will be the match for the CLA and A3.
Try taking a sharp highway curve at speed in one of the Korean cars. See if you can do it without tapping your brakes. The body roll is excessive.
January 21, 2013, 12:11 pm
It's all about volume. Selling 320s will enable BMW to defray the R&D costs of the platform across more units. While the engine is different, many of the other components and the assembly lines are the same.
VW Group has a cost advantage, because they own VW, Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini, Seat and Skoda. Technology that starts out in the high-end cars eventually ends up in the most basic cars which provides VW Group an inherent cost advantage.
January 21, 2013, 12:45 pm
Try taking a sharp highway curve at speed in one of the Korean cars. See if you can do it without tapping your brakes. The body roll is excessive.
January 21, 2013, 12:49 pm
VW Group has a cost advantage, because they own VW, Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini, Seat and Skoda. Technology that starts out in the high-end cars eventually ends up in the most basic cars which provides VW Group an inherent cost advantage.
Also I pointed out, 320 is not meant to compete with CLA or A3, the upcoming 2 series 4-door coupe is.
January 21, 2013, 1:04 pm
Also I pointed out, 320 is not meant to compete with CLA or A3, the upcoming 2 series 4-door coupe is.
January 21, 2013, 3:47 pm
January 21, 2013, 4:40 pm
Each 328i will not make "$4,000 more profit for BMW". You are looking at this all wrong.
1. If you are referring to the variance in MSRP, that's $4,000 in sales, not $4,000 in profit. Profit margins on automobiles tend to be in the 6-8% range, so the bottom line 'hit' to BMW for selling a car that's $4,000 less expensive is only $280.
2. If BMW sells 30% more 3 Series as a result of the lower priced model, they get better prices on raw materials and components from their suppliers for all cars, will help the margins on every car BMW makes, certainly offsets the 320i's impact significantly.
3. What BMW is doing is "trading sales for market share and acquiring new brand-loyal buyers in the process". I'm sure they've run a lifetime value analysis of the typical current 3 buyer and applied it to the new mix with the cheaper car and determined that by losing $280 in profit to acquire a new customer in Year 1 it will generate $1000's of dollars of incremental profit over the course of 10+ years of repeat brand purchases.
4. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that BMW is getting ridiculous profit margins on options and packages. For years we hear people complain "I can get a $150 Nuvi that does a better job than BMW's nav for $2,000". BMW is likely making $800 on every Technology package, Sport package, Premium package, Cold Weather package, etc. So by losing $280 on the MSRP profit BMW has its customers have free cash to buy extremely profitable packages and options.
5. Translation: BMW will make more money on a 320i than a 328i considering a) the buyers will be apt to add more profitable add-ons and b) their suppliers will lower their costs on materials as c) the lifetime value of the new customers they acquire increases while d) their stock price will soar due to the e) increase in marketshare taken away from key competitors.
BJ
January 21, 2013, 5:07 pm
Each 328i will not make "$4,000 more profit for BMW". You are looking at this all wrong.
1. If you are referring to the variance in MSRP, that's $4,000 in sales, not $4,000 in profit. Profit margins on automobiles tend to be in the 6-8% range, so the bottom line 'hit' to BMW for selling a car that's $4,000 less expensive is only $280.
BJ
People who go to a dealer looking for a 320i are more value oriented, and less likely to pay for all the add ons compared to the 328i buyers.
Your other theory was already out of the window, the 320i is not a direct answer to the CLA or A3, the upcoming 2 series 4-door is.
January 21, 2013, 6:13 pm
I was on the bmw.ca website .. did I see it right that you can NOT get the 320i with any kind of sport package ??
btw - the base 328i is around $9000 more than the 320i based on that site.
January 21, 2013, 6:21 pm
January 21, 2013, 6:37 pm
The 320i will no doubt cannibalize some sales from the 328i. But the loss will more than be made up by expansion of demand at the bottom end.
No doubt BJ is super excited to no longer be driving an entry-level model.
January 21, 2013, 6:53 pm
Also I pointed out, 320 is not meant to compete with CLA or A3, the upcoming 2 series 4-door coupe is.
January 21, 2013, 7:23 pm
January 21, 2013, 7:24 pm
January 21, 2013, 7:26 pm
January 21, 2013, 7:33 pm
No doubt BJ is super excited to no longer be driving an entry-level model.
January 21, 2013, 8:03 pm
January 21, 2013, 8:21 pm
January 21, 2013, 8:29 pm
January 21, 2013, 9:21 pm
January 21, 2013, 10:49 pm
No doubt BJ is super excited to no longer be driving an entry-level model.
Ah, Luxury.
BJ
January 21, 2013, 10:51 pm
L420i Coupe. Or, perhaps, a L Gran Coupe. The kids are older now, the oldest will be off to College and dad won't need no 4-door any more.
BJ
January 21, 2013, 11:27 pm
People who go to a dealer looking for a 320i are more value oriented, and less likely to pay for all the add ons compared to the 328i buyers.
Your other theory was already out of the window, the 320i is not a direct answer to the CLA or A3, the upcoming 2 series 4-door is.
January 22, 2013, 12:19 am
No Dynamic Handling Package option with new 320. This is what makes a BMW The Ultimate Driving Machine.
January 22, 2013, 12:19 am
A cheap BMW sedan. Isn't that sad?
January 22, 2013, 12:22 am
January 22, 2013, 12:35 am
January 22, 2013, 2:47 am
Plus, the 320 is not new. It's always been available in other countries, and not only that, you can get 318s and 316s in other countries as well.
So I'm not really sure what your point is.
January 22, 2013, 6:57 am
this seems like a pretty dumb statement. there is a sport package with the 320i. the car is still RWD. its still more than fast enough to have a fun drive in.
seems like it'd still be a pretty good car to drive. just not as good as higher model BMWs. but i'd still drive a sport pack 320i every day of the week over say a v6 camry or a 2.0 fusion
January 22, 2013, 9:32 am
seems like it'd still be a pretty good car to drive. just not as good as higher model BMWs. but i'd still drive a sport pack 320i every day of the week over say a v6 camry or a 2.0 fusion
January 22, 2013, 9:35 am
seems like it'd still be a pretty good car to drive. just not as good as higher model BMWs. but i'd still drive a sport pack 320i every day of the week over say a v6 camry or a 2.0 fusion
January 22, 2013, 10:02 am
January 22, 2013, 10:05 am
January 22, 2013, 11:15 am
For decades, BMW has been considered a premium car, at least here in the United States. Now with $30K options being introduced, that in my opinion is starting to dilute the brand. You can probably spec out an Accord now for $30.
And I don't like the fact that my $40K 328i now looks pretty much like a $30K 320i. That in my mind reduces it's exclusiveness.
I didn't mind the 1-series so much because it had different body style to distinguish it.
Will have to seriously consider a 4-series when it is time to buy a new car.
I know many will disagree with this, but many more will agree too.
January 22, 2013, 11:21 am
And I don't like the fact that my $37K 328i now looks pretty much like a $33K 320i. That in my mind reduces it's exclusiveness.
This has always been the case between the 335 and 328 and I always found the mentality obnoxious. Now it spreads to 328 owners too, how nice!
January 22, 2013, 11:23 am
The DHP obviously is more complex and cost more to add in. Given the nearly $4k price cut, the fact the 320 actually offers a sport package with all the necessary sporty elements and at a lower package price, is a win already. Complain about something else, the lack of DHP is not one of them.
January 22, 2013, 11:36 am
Plus, the 320 hardly qualifies as being cheap in the first place, so I really don't get WTH he was talking about.
January 22, 2013, 11:38 am
January 22, 2013, 11:42 am
This has always been the case between the 335 and 328 and I always found the mentality obnoxious. Now it spreads to 328 owners too, how nice!
Regarding the price - I don't believe the invoice price for the 320i has been published yet, but it will probably be $30K. And many dealers will sell for invoice.
January 22, 2013, 11:43 am
This has always been the case between the 335 and 328 and I always found the mentality obnoxious. Now it spreads to 328 owners too, how nice!
to the skeptics, a BMW is a BMW regardless of the engine and price point. Drive a 320i and drive then go drive a Honda and tell me if they compare!
January 22, 2013, 11:45 am
Plus, the 320 hardly qualifies as being cheap in the first place, so I really don't get WTH he was talking about.
It's good for BMW though to introduce cheaper models. They sell more cars. Get more people hooked on to BMWs too. And those like me who want a "bit" exclusive car will strive for the next model up (4-series) for their next car.
January 22, 2013, 11:46 am
January 22, 2013, 11:53 am
Regarding the price - I don't believe the invoice price for the 320i has been published yet, but it will probably be $30K. And many dealers will sell for invoice.
Architecture.
RWD vs FWD changes the whole design and construction of a car.
Look at where the weight is carried on a FWD car while a 3 series allows for a design thats nets 50/50 weight balance.
I have driven great handling FWD cars. But they almost always have to come with the caveat...for FWD.
The Accord(going to drive one on Saturday as a new car for my M-I-L) and I expect for it to be a well made, good driving and solid car. But its inherent design/architecture keeps it from being a proper sports/sporty sedan. This is also often true of FWD cars given an AWD variant, same issues apply.
January 22, 2013, 12:03 pm
Plus, based on the average household income in America today, I wouldn't consider a loaded Accord to be cheap anyway.
Just because i drive around in $50,000 cars, that doesn't mean a car with a base price of $33k is cheap by most peoples' standards.
January 22, 2013, 12:05 pm
Fairly different...the reason
Architecture.
RWD vs FWD changes the whole design and construction of a car.
Look at where the weight is carried on a FWD car while a 3 series allows for a design thats nets 50/50 weight balance.
I have driven great handling FWD cars. But they almost always have to come with the caveat...for FWD.
The Accord(going to drive one on Saturday as a new car for my M-I-L) and I expect for it to be a well made, good driving and solid car. But its inherent design/architecture keeps it from being a proper sports/sporty sedan. This is also often true of FWD cars given an AWD variant, same issues apply.
Just a disclaimer, I haven't driven an Accord in years. But recently I have had an opportunity to drive a couple of new model full sized sedans as rentals, like the Malibu and I have to say I was impressed. Of course they were no BMWs but they didn't cost as much either. I suspect the differences between a high end Accord and entry level 320i are diminishing.
January 22, 2013, 12:08 pm
There is no way you can compare that to a RWD BMW. I don't care how much they strip it down. The RWD BMW will always be superior.
January 22, 2013, 12:09 pm
And while you might assume that most people will want a nicely equipped 320i, I would assume most people wanting to buying a 320i will keep it modestly equipped.
For every F30 owner on this forum that has a really nicely equipped BMW, there is one who has a modestly version. And then everything in between.
January 22, 2013, 12:12 pm
seems like it'd still be a pretty good car to drive. just not as good as higher model BMWs. but i'd still drive a sport pack 320i every day of the week over say a v6 camry or a 2.0 fusion
January 22, 2013, 12:16 pm
.
January 22, 2013, 12:33 pm
Just a disclaimer, I haven't driven an Accord in years. But recently I have had an opportunity to drive a couple of new model full sized sedans as rentals, like the Malibu and I have to say I was impressed. Of course they were no BMWs but they didn't cost as much either. I suspect the differences between a high end Accord and entry level 320i are diminishing.
So I hold to my statements. My in laws just replaced a last gen Accord with a loaded $33k Optima. I like what I am hearing about the new Accord. Its structure and weight balance is factual, not an opinion. It will drive well, but some inherent qualities in it's design and structure cannot be overcome. To my knowledge there has never been a FWD car with 50/50 balance.
I also put 2k miles on a new '13 Altima this week. I am very up to date on what is out there in the segment.
January 22, 2013, 1:05 pm
January 22, 2013, 1:13 pm
.
FWD is also better to reduce the size of the hump, creating more interior space.
My feeling is that if you have RWD, you should have 50/50 balance. The Lexus IS250 is terrible in that it is about 60/40 or 63/37 yet has RWD.
One can have a FWD that handles well, even better than a RWD car. However, the best RWD car will handle better than FWD in good weather. Since many RWD cars are not contenders for the best RWD, I think there's a big place in the market for FWD. There's a much smaller role for RWD, which is filled with cars like BMWs. The ordinary cars and minivans on the road are better as FWD. Likewise, if one skims on tires, just give up a BMW unless one is buying it merely for status.
January 22, 2013, 1:20 pm
January 22, 2013, 1:20 pm
FWD is also better to reduce the size of the hump, creating more interior space.
My feeling is that if you have RWD, you should have 50/50 balance. The Lexus IS250 is terrible in that it is about 60/40 or 63/37 yet has RWD.
One can have a FWD that handles well, even better than a RWD car. However, the best RWD car will handle better than FWD in good weather. Since many RWD cars are not contenders for the best RWD, I think there's a big place in the market for FWD. There's a much smaller role for RWD, which is filled with cars like BMWs. The ordinary cars and minivans on the road are better as FWD. Likewise, if one skims on tires, just give up a BMW unless one is buying it merely for status.
My Saabs were amazing in winter, especially with snow tires.
So much of this debate is by people who not only do not drive cars towards their capabilities but also do not drive enough cars of varying configuration.
Magazine reviews and numbers are great and all. But driving the new Altima for ten minutes communicates to much as to the feel, something that the BMW has that is hard go write about.
I had the same debate with a GM head when I was saying how good the new Boxster is when he automatically stated the new Vette would be better. I explained the light weight inherent in the Boxster and purity in controls of steering, brakes, handling, are hard to replicate in the heavier C7 no matter how much faster it may be. I told him to drive both cars. That is what it comes down to. Drive 'em. The rest is just BS.
January 22, 2013, 1:24 pm
January 22, 2013, 1:41 pm
Basically you don't really want to push the Accord V6 close to its limit, it will not make you feel very good. Most mainstream family sedans are not designed to encourage you to push it to the limit, even when they have the more powerful engines.
The only benefit of a more powerful engine in those cars, is so you can load the car full of passengers and junk, still drive on the passing lane up the hill.
January 22, 2013, 1:45 pm
For decades, BMW has been considered a premium car, at least here in the United States. Now with $30K options being introduced, that in my opinion is starting to dilute the brand. You can probably spec out an Accord now for $30.
And I don't like the fact that my $40K 328i now looks pretty much like a $30K 320i. That in my mind reduces it's exclusiveness.
I didn't mind the 1-series so much because it had different body style to distinguish it.
Will have to seriously consider a 4-series when it is time to buy a new car.
I know many will disagree with this, but many more will agree too.
By the way, a top of the line Accord is now about $34K!
I'm not sure of BMW's strategy with the 320i other than the cost of the 328 has risen very quickly as of late. An F30 is probably out of my budget now. My lightly optioned 2011 E90 with Value Package, leather, heated seats, metallic paint and rear shades retailed for about $36,500.00. A comparably equipped F30 admittedly with more std features is about $40K. It has moved upscale, thus the more affordable 320i.
January 22, 2013, 1:47 pm
January 22, 2013, 1:47 pm
Basically you don't really want to push the Accord V6 close to its limit, it will not make you feel very good. Most mainstream family sedans are not designed to encourage you to push it to the limit, even when they have the more powerful engines.
The only benefit of a more powerful engine in those cars, is so you can load the car full of passengers and junk, still drive on the passing lane up the hill.
January 22, 2013, 1:51 pm
FWD is also better to reduce the size of the hump, creating more interior space.
My feeling is that if you have RWD, you should have 50/50 balance. The Lexus IS250 is terrible in that it is about 60/40 or 63/37 yet has RWD.
One can have a FWD that handles well, even better than a RWD car. However, the best RWD car will handle better than FWD in good weather. Since many RWD cars are not contenders for the best RWD, I think there's a big place in the market for FWD. There's a much smaller role for RWD, which is filled with cars like BMWs. The ordinary cars and minivans on the road are better as FWD. Likewise, if one skims on tires, just give up a BMW unless one is buying it merely for status.
(Oops, Mr Clueless beat me to it.)
January 22, 2013, 2:08 pm
They should also know that with each new generation, the 3 series caters more for the majority of the drivers too.
January 22, 2013, 2:24 pm
I am amazed that we still debating the introduction of 320 will dilute BMW brand
comparing BMW to Honda or other cars is not the point. I owned many hondas and still like them.
the e90 325 when introduced in 2006 was around $30K, the f30 328 introduced last year around $36K. A $6k increase can't be attributed to inflation or increase in the average household income. The f30 328i moved upscale and there is a need to fill in the gap below the new 328 with a 320 to compete with the likes of MB, Audi, Lexus, etc..
So, 320i price (basic configuration) is more than e90 325 (basic) few years ago.
January 22, 2013, 5:49 pm
comparing BMW to Honda or other cars is not the point. I owned many hondas and still like them.
the e90 325 when introduced in 2006 was around $30K, the f30 328 introduced last year around $36K. A $6k increase can't be attributed to inflation or increase in the average household income. The f30 328i moved upscale and there is a need to fill in the gap below the new 328 with a 320 to compete with the likes of MB, Audi, Lexus, etc..
So, 320i price (basic configuration) is more than e90 325 (basic) few years ago.
not to mention the 2007 328i was $2000 more than a 325i just for the model number change.
i mean a 325i came with 16" rims. 20% cost increase in 7 years. which if you compound 2.5% seems like its not that unreasonable especially considering the 3 became bigger, the 1 series came out (which moved the 3 slightly up market) etc.
January 22, 2013, 6:16 pm
comparing BMW to Honda or other cars is not the point. I owned many hondas and still like them.
the e90 325 when introduced in 2006 was around $30K, the f30 328 introduced last year around $36K. A $6k increase can't be attributed to inflation or increase in the average household income. The f30 328i moved upscale and there is a need to fill in the gap below the new 328 with a 320 to compete with the likes of MB, Audi, Lexus, etc..
So, 320i price (basic configuration) is more than e90 325 (basic) few years ago.
http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc....006&year2=2012
$30,000 in 2006
Has the same buying power as:
$34,165.77 in 2012
Still, I agree with your point about filling the gap below the 328 and competing with MB, Audi, etc.
January 22, 2013, 8:21 pm
January 22, 2013, 8:24 pm
January 22, 2013, 8:31 pm
The 318ti was a different story. I actually know two acquaintances who got them (with leather, sunroof, etc., not strippers). But a couple of girls commented how it looked like the back was chopped off and it was the car for people who could afford only "half a BMW." So cruel
January 22, 2013, 8:32 pm
January 22, 2013, 8:44 pm
LOL!
January 22, 2013, 8:45 pm
The 318ti was a different story. I actually know two acquaintances who got them (with leather, sunroof, etc., not strippers). But a couple of girls commented how it looked like the back was chopped off and it was the car for people who could afford only "half a BMW." So cruel
January 22, 2013, 9:16 pm
definitely way more.
i bought my audi at the start of 2010. was living in norcal at the time. wanted a sport package quatro with premium plus. looked in socal, looked in norcal. very very hard to find, finally found one by some stroke of luck.
i guess the socal people wanted the sports package rims and looks, and didnt want to pay for awd. and the norcal people would only pay for awd. and premium plus wasnt super common either.
it was damn near impossible to find a quattro at all in socal. let alone with sport pack. i mean just like the 320i vs 328i, well quattro is just $2500 for something that most audi owners won't even use just like $2500 for that extra 60hp.
i really wanted quattro, i mean its not an audi without quattro and it was my first german car had to do it right. cousin bought same car but no quattro same options. he absolutely doesnt care and knew nothing about cars or how it drove and was coming from a 10 year old accord. its a "nice car" he didnt even know how to use the computer to check the oil, to see if his flawed engine was burning any oil (it was just like mine was. good riddance to that piece of crap, never buying a VW product again)
January 22, 2013, 9:20 pm
.
January 22, 2013, 9:23 pm
January 22, 2013, 9:26 pm
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....32904&id=33170
but yes - it is still an Accord.
January 22, 2013, 9:29 pm
January 22, 2013, 9:43 pm
It wouldn't surprise me if, sooner or later, the 3 series outsells both the Camry and Accord in North America. It already does in most of Europe where the 320i and even cheaper 3s have been on sale for years. The corporate strategy seems to be to move downmarket in a bid to shift more cars. Even the most expensive bimmers aren't that expensive any more, especially compared to the top of the line Audi's and MBs.
January 22, 2013, 9:44 pm
i am thinking the new 320i given it has a published 7.1 will be in the 6s as well. not to mention the mid 6s time for the accord is probably with the manual.
given most of the people looking at accords and 320is will probably get the 8AT or CVT, i'd assume the cvt is not as fast as the zf 8 speed to 60. will be pretty close though.
January 22, 2013, 9:46 pm
definitely. the 320i base is 7 grand more than a EX i-4 accord CVT. this is probably the most common model accord. for 7 grand, you lose things like power seats, and the accords standard sunroof, but you get some other features and a slightly more powerful car, a year longer warranty and free maintenance.
if bmw can convince even some accord/altima/camry buyers to just get the 320i it will help their economies of scale. i think a lot of people would look at the 7k difference considering BMW resale value and the maintenance costs of brake pads etc , and there will be just enough people doing it to make it worth while for bmw.
January 22, 2013, 10:39 pm
The manual is 6.8, the CVT is in the 7's. The base Altima does 7.6. But man it sounds like a Hoover doing it.
January 22, 2013, 10:44 pm
January 22, 2013, 10:55 pm
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....32904&id=33170
but yes - it is still an Accord.
Also the last time I considered an Accord good looking was 1995. Starting with the update in 1996 they messed up the rear, and thereafter they have been boats.
January 23, 2013, 7:31 am
January 23, 2013, 7:38 am
There is too big a segment of the midsize market here that keeps a Camry for 12 years and when it starts to fall apart they go and get another Camry--and if they could, it would have cloth seats and roll up windows.
This segment is never going to even shop BMW. They think that all of them are $70k or more and for the rich or wastrels.
January 23, 2013, 8:51 am
BMW does not even sell a new Mini for less than $20,000.
January 23, 2013, 10:10 am
January 23, 2013, 1:21 pm
They are bringing in the 320i to fight off the competition example Infiniti G25.
January 23, 2013, 1:29 pm
January 23, 2013, 4:48 pm
theG37 is actually not that inexpensive a car these days. one well equipped costs just as much as a 328i more or less and other than having more power, its not that compelling a car.
they could easily bring that G25 engine back .
January 23, 2013, 5:38 pm
theG37 is actually not that inexpensive a car these days. one well equipped costs just as much as a 328i more or less and other than having more power, its not that compelling a car.
they could easily bring that G25 engine back .
January 23, 2013, 7:55 pm
Today I heard of someone optioning out a fully loaded Kia Optima for 33k.
January 23, 2013, 8:02 pm
January 23, 2013, 8:05 pm
January 23, 2013, 8:09 pm
Here is a link to a Kia dealer. As I couldn't believe it. Yhttp://www.gwinnettplacekia.com/inve...A-30478848.htm
One way to spend $34900: http://m.jalopnik.com/5883447/kia-op...to-spend-34900
January 23, 2013, 8:23 pm
the optima honestly is a pretty nice car, a coworker just bought an EX. its huge inside since these midsize cards are a good foot longer than a 3 series and have FWD packaging. was also fairly quiet.
the base audio system supports bluetooth streaming etc, unlike uh BMW without bmw assist. standard leather seats too on the EX which is kind of impressive
but yeah mid level cars are not that cheap anymore. we are in an era where a civic EX costs $20k+
another coworker just ordered a fusion 1.6 SE. got it for invoice. he got automatic, leather luxury package, like a backup camera, start stop (he had to have this after seeing it in the 328i... haha) and a moonroof. was like $27k + tax. i actaully looked it up and you can build a $37k fusion titanium 2.0 AWD. inflation indeed.
January 23, 2013, 9:34 pm
Accord hits the same $33-34k fully loaded.
Optima is pretty class competitive. It's one of the better looking midsize sedans out there.
January 24, 2013, 12:52 am
Yeah, a lot of Bimmer drivers don't understand, many people will gladly pay $30k+ for a loaded Toyota Camry or Honda CRX, than paying the same for an entry level luxury. To them a luxury badge is too much a show off, that in addition to the perceived reliability and resale value issues.
January 24, 2013, 1:09 am
The way it works is you drive your Accord and you drive your Camry and eventually you make a bit more money and you feel a bit more comfortable and then you see your friends getting nicer cars and you stop by the BMW dealer and you realize you can afford a 3 Series so long as you give up all the goodies you got for free on the Toyota and Honda products and in a moment of clarity you say "okay" and then you take delivery and appreciate the refinement and you enjoy the driving experience and life is good until your lease is up and you realize that you really miss the goodies but you can't go back to those off-brands and so you suck it up and pinch a little from the college fund and get a fully loaded 3 Series because BMW has gotten you in its status trap from which there is no escape.
BJ
January 24, 2013, 3:04 am
The way it works is you drive your Accord and you drive your Camry and eventually you make a bit more money and you feel a bit more comfortable and then you see your friends getting nicer cars and you stop by the BMW dealer and you realize you can afford a 3 Series so long as you give up all the goodies you got for free on the Toyota and Honda products and in a moment of clarity you say "okay" and then you take delivery and appreciate the refinement and you enjoy the driving experience and life is good until your lease is up and you realize that you really miss the goodies but you can't go back to those off-brands and so you suck it up and pinch a little from the college fund and get a fully loaded 3 Series because BMW has gotten you in its status trap from which there is no escape.
BJ
January 24, 2013, 7:35 am
The way it works is you drive your Accord and you drive your Camry and eventually you make a bit more money and you feel a bit more comfortable and then you see your friends getting nicer cars and you stop by the BMW dealer and you realize you can afford a 3 Series so long as you give up all the goodies you got for free on the Toyota and Honda products and in a moment of clarity you say "okay" and then you take delivery and appreciate the refinement and you enjoy the driving experience and life is good until your lease is up and you realize that you really miss the goodies but you can't go back to those off-brands and so you suck it up and pinch a little from the college fund and get a fully loaded 3 Series because BMW has gotten you in its status trap from which there is no escape.
BJ
Except I would call it a "nothing I have ever driven feels like this" trap moreso than status.
January 24, 2013, 8:16 am
We just went through this on this thread.
The 320 is not really the same price as an Accord or a Camry.
A fully loaded Accord and an absolute stripped down 320 are the same price. But here is why that still doesn't matter, and where you're off target.
1) A fully loaded Accord is out of reach for most people at $33k, but a base price Accord is only $21k. Most Accord buyers opt for the much cheaper versions. Just look around...
2) if you load up a 320 with all the same options and features as a fully loaded Accord, the 320 is about $10k more. Some will buy a stripped down 320, this is true, but most people will not.
3) the 320 competes with the Acura TSX, Acura ILX and the Nissan Maxima, not with the Accord.
There is no possibility, none, absolutely zero possibility of a car with a base price of $33,000 being a top 5 seller in this country.
In order for BMW to top the Accord or Camry, they would have to be at the same entry level price point, which is at about $21,000.
Do you honestly think BMW is going to sell car with a $20,000 entry level price point? Let's not go off the deep edge here. There is a simple reason why a Nissan Maxima doesn't outsell an Accord or Camry. It's a much better car, but it's also more money and out of reach for most consumers.
January 24, 2013, 8:49 am
Once you go BMW it's definitely hard to go somewhere else.
Except I would call it a "nothing I have ever driven feels like this" trap moreso than status.
Some are into the status, some are into the performance. For me, honestly, it's about the design. I just think that BMW makes the best looking cars in this segment. So even if they screwed up the driving dynamics or lowered the prices to the point of losing all status I'd still buy them as I just think they look so much better than all the other sport sedans out there.
BJ
January 24, 2013, 8:52 am
We just went through this on this thread.
The 320 is not really the same price as an Accord or a Camry.
A fully loaded Accord and an absolute stripped down 320 are the same price. But here is why that still doesn't matter, and where you're off target.
1) A fully loaded Accord is out of reach for most people at $33k, but a base price Accord is only $21k. Most Accord buyers opt for the much cheaper versions. Just look around...
2) if you load up a 320 with all the same options and features as a fully loaded Accord, the 320 is about $10k more. Some will buy a stripped down 320, this is true, but most people will not.
3) the 320 competes with the Acura TSX, Acura ILX and the Nissan Maxima, not with the Accord.
There is no possibility, none, absolutely zero possibility of a car with a base price of $33,000 being a top 5 seller in this country.
In order for BMW to top the Accord or Camry, they would have to be at the same entry level price point, which is at about $21,000.
Do you honestly think BMW is going to sell car with a $20,000 entry level price point? Let's not go off the deep edge here. There is a simple reason why a Nissan Maxima doesn't outsell an Accord or Camry. It's a much better car, but it's also more money and out of reach for most consumers.
It still amazes me how, week after week, certain BMW drivers just don't get what life is like in the real world. I keep wondering to myself if I'm raising my kids right. They didn't live a life where they were exposed to the 98%, besides hearing me tell stories of how the "other half lives" perhaps they too think that "anyone can afford a $35,000 car" because everyone they interact with simply can.
BJ
January 24, 2013, 11:18 am
January 24, 2013, 11:37 am
According to Autoguide.com the average price paid for a new car in the US is $30,748.
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...-of-30748.html
January 24, 2013, 11:46 am
January 24, 2013, 11:54 am
CA
January 24, 2013, 12:05 pm
January 24, 2013, 12:08 pm
January 24, 2013, 12:10 pm
CA
January 24, 2013, 12:24 pm
January 24, 2013, 12:31 pm
Hello all, I am a current Infiniti G37 6MT owner that has been caught by the BMW bug. After attending the Detroit auto show earlier this week, I can see myself either getting into a 320 with sport package or a base version of the 328. Unfortunately for Infiniti, the absence of a manual transmission for the 2014 Q50 is a deal breaker for me. I've owned 5 G35/G37s over the past 10 years, all with manual transmission.
If I can get a 320i 6MT with sport + lighting package for a lease around $350/mo and $1200 total due at signing, then I'm all in. I am 31, married with one child and am the target demographic for this vehicle. Since my lease is ending in December of this year, I have already started my search. Like most have already stated on this thread, the 180hp seems ultra conservative, so I wouldn't be surprised if the dyno numbers mirror that of an A4 2.0T (200hp, 235ft-lb). This is more than plenty for my tastes. Plus I'm sure there will be a tune available in the near future to bump engine output to near 328 power.
January 24, 2013, 1:02 pm
If I can get a 320i 6MT with sport + lighting package for a lease around $350/mo and $1200 total due at signing, then I'm all in. I am 31, married with one child and am the target demographic for this vehicle. Since my lease is ending in December of this year, I have already started my search. Like most have already stated on this thread, the 180hp seems ultra conservative, so I wouldn't be surprised if the dyno numbers mirror that of an A4 2.0T (200hp, 235ft-lb). This is more than plenty for my tastes. Plus I'm sure there will be a tune available in the near future to bump engine output to near 328 power.
The 320 with the sport package and lighting package sounds great. The sport package is especially a bargain. In addition to the sport suspension and bigger wheels, you get the M Steering wheel, and you don't even get the M Steering Wheel on a Sport Line 335. I'd also add the Nav and rear view camera too, but that's me...
January 24, 2013, 1:30 pm
1. This has been a very interesting thread to read since I have been on the verge of ordering a 328i and now have to consider this new 320 vehicle. (These other car brands aren't really on my radar anymore since few have both RWD + MT; I've had a MT accord for many years but am tired of the FWD.)
2. The 328 is going to be a tough sell to the wife when she sees commercials for these 320s; even worse if they release a 320d that gets 40 MPG. Since I was going to get a 328i sportline with DHP through ED; now I am confronted with getting a 320 sport package without the DHP. It appears to me that would save me about $6000, and the only downside is I lose 60hp and the DHP? Can that be right? On top of that, I get to have the dakota leatherette in the sport package without being stuck with the black+red stitching? Going to be very, very hard to stick to the 328 unless I drive the 320 and it still feels like I'm in my Accord.
3. I fully understand why BMW would release this car. What I do not understand is why they have such peculiar interior color/finish combinations to particular lines. And the options on the 320 only confirm to me that it appears to be almost random.
January 24, 2013, 1:41 pm
But compared to the 328i sport line you will also miss auto dimming mirrors, power seats, garage door opener, one exhaust pipe (
PS: You mention 328 would be hard sell after the 320...why is that? Is it just cost or something else? You mention 320d, but my guess it that will be closer to the 328 in price. In terms of MPG, the 320 is no better than the 328.
January 24, 2013, 1:52 pm
But compared to the 328i sport line you will also miss auto dimming mirrors, power seats, garage door opener, one exhaust pipe (
January 24, 2013, 2:29 pm
2. The 328 is going to be a tough sell to the wife when she sees commercials for these 320s; even worse if they release a 320d that gets 40 MPG. Since I was going to get a 328i sportline with DHP through ED; now I am confronted with getting a 320 sport package without the DHP. It appears to me that would save me about $6000, and the only downside is I lose 60hp and the DHP? Can that be right? On top of that, I get to have the dakota leatherette in the sport package without being stuck with the black+red stitching? Going to be very, very hard to stick to the 328 unless I drive the 320 and it still feels like I'm in my Accord.
3. I fully understand why BMW would release this car. What I do not understand is why they have such peculiar interior color/finish combinations to particular lines. And the options on the 320 only confirm to me that it appears to be almost random.
Highest Regards
January 24, 2013, 2:35 pm
I would say that unless you are at that threshold level where the choice is between some other cheaper brand or splurging slightly for a BMW, go with the 328i. It is the truly revolutionary car in the current F30 lineup while the others are just evolutionary.
January 24, 2013, 2:36 pm
Highest Regards
BMW has already been on record as saying they want the 320i to be a simplified, "value conscious" car to order and buy, geared towards a younger market. The more features you can potentially add and order, the further you get away from this goal.
The enthusiasts with more income can chase the 328i/335i.
January 24, 2013, 2:38 pm
Highest Regards
January 24, 2013, 2:50 pm
http://www.bimmerfile.com/2013/01/18...-won-kyu-kang/
Highest Regards
January 24, 2013, 2:55 pm
But compared to the 328i sport line you will also miss auto dimming mirrors, power seats, garage door opener, one exhaust pipe (
I mentioned the 320d because I can offset the price increase by pointing out the MPG increase. But I'd be worried they will only release a 320d as an AT and that's a deal killer for me.
January 24, 2013, 2:57 pm
http://www.bimmerfile.com/2013/01/18...-won-kyu-kang/
Highest Regards
320i could be the perfect car for a 70 year old fellow that enjoys cars, but doesn't need every last bit of performance... or even the 35 year old mom who wants something more fun to drive and styled better than the Camry.
January 24, 2013, 2:58 pm
January 24, 2013, 2:59 pm
BMW has already been on record as saying they want the 320i to be a simplified, "value conscious" car to order and buy, geared towards a younger market. The more features you can potentially add and order, the further you get away from this goal.
The enthusiasts with more income can chase the 328i/335i.
But I also suspect that if they are even slightly right then that would account for why you can't get it in a 320 and why the proportion of people discussing it favorably would be much higher on a forum about BMWs than the average person walking into a dealership.
January 24, 2013, 3:01 pm
Because of the price. (My getting a car happens once every ten years and it requires a long and delicate negotiation. And not with the dealer.) If I lease and amortize then the monthly cost difference isn't that much. But the "sticker shock" for my wife is significant: the way I price out what I had planned to get as a 328 ends up over $40k (before accounting for ED invoice but adding in tax); the 320 would be closer to $35k.
I mentioned the 320d because I can offset the price increase by pointing out the MPG increase. But I'd be worried they will only release a 320d as an AT and that's a deal killer for me.
Exactly. That's why I didn't even bother. I just told her what car I'm getting, how much I'm spending, and when I'm getting it.
January 24, 2013, 3:03 pm
I assume they pay people money to market research these things and they are not random, but sometimes I wonder....
January 24, 2013, 3:06 pm
Exactly. That's why I didn't even bother. I just told her what car I'm getting, how much I'm spending, and when I'm getting it.
Well, there is a balance to be struck. I think if I keep the price "low enough" she won't care what the actual features are. The trick is massaging "low enough" by promises of driving her to Venice, pointing out the car is less expensive than a new version of hers (highlander hybrid), and that I did everything possible to get a nice car but keep the cost as low as possible.
Thanks for all the thoughts.
January 24, 2013, 3:07 pm
But I also suspect that if they are even slightly right then that would account for why you can't get it in a 320 and why the proportion of people discussing it favorably would be much higher on a forum about BMWs than the average person walking into a dealership.
As the MSRP gets lower (i.e. 320i), these extra features like DHP become a larger percentage of the purchase price, thereby dissuading both customers and dealers from adding it on. Everyone knows and can understand the value of Navigation or even comfort access. But adjustable suspension and steering to a buyer coming from a 3-year lease on a Jetta, Camry or Acura? C'mon. A base 320i is going to handle way stiffer than any other car in its class.
January 24, 2013, 3:07 pm
But I also suspect that if they are even slightly right then that would account for why you can't get it in a 320 and why the proportion of people discussing it favorably would be much higher on a forum about BMWs than the average person walking into a dealership.
But I want my cake and eat it too. I want the option of having both the sport suspension and a softer, more comfortable suspension. DHP is the only option for that.
By the way, I suppose DHP is good for the track, but it also gives people the option of softening the ride, so I doubt your dealer knows what he is talking about.
January 24, 2013, 3:21 pm
As the MSRP gets lower (i.e. 320i), these extra features like DHP become a larger percentage of the purchase price, thereby dissuading both customers and dealers from adding it on. Everyone knows and can understand the value of Navigation or even comfort access. But adjustable suspension and steering to a buyer coming from a 3-year lease on a Jetta, Camry or Acura? C'mon. A base 320i is going to handle way stiffer than any other car in its class.
Especially the part about the base 320 handling way stiffer than a Camry, Acura, etc..
I'm getting a 335 and DHP, but honestly, for the 320 price range, DHP is over the edge...
If you start adding DHP, HK, etc., then why even bother putting out the 320 in the first place...Makes no sense.
I actually think they should consider the exact opposite approach. Instead of adding things like DHP, they should consider cloth seats and such, and go a little more down range...
January 24, 2013, 3:23 pm
I assume they pay people money to market research these things and they are not random, but sometimes I wonder....
So best if you can get it confirmed from a dealer.
January 24, 2013, 3:24 pm
Exactly. That's why I didn't even bother. I just told her what car I'm getting, how much I'm spending, and when I'm getting it.
January 24, 2013, 3:29 pm
Especially the part about the base 320 handling way stiffer than a Camry, Acura, etc..
I'm getting a 335 and DHP, but honestly, for the 320 price range, DHP is over the edge...
If you start adding DHP, HK, etc., then why even bother putting out the 320 in the first place...Makes no sense.
I actually think they should consider the exact opposite approach. Instead of adding things like DHP, they should consider cloth seats and such, and go a little more down range...
January 24, 2013, 3:30 pm
320i could be the perfect car for a 70 year old fellow that enjoys cars, but doesn't need every last bit of performance... or even the 35 year old mom who wants something more fun to drive and styled better than the Camry.
Highest Regards
January 24, 2013, 3:34 pm
Highest Regards
January 24, 2013, 3:50 pm
Highest Regards
January 24, 2013, 3:55 pm
Highest Regards
January 24, 2013, 4:34 pm
But if I really had to cut back, I'd be perfectly ok with a 328 Luxury line minus DHP and the sport transmission. That could have saved me about $4500 (or more) right there, and I would have been ok with that...
January 24, 2013, 5:27 pm
January 24, 2013, 5:31 pm
But I agree overall. I can't tell you how many dealers in one place or another (not just BMW) have tried to tell me that having an automatic where you control the gear shifting is the "same thing as a manual transmission."
January 25, 2013, 8:05 pm
One point not yet mentioned here is that, world-wide, the 320i is the best selling BMW 3-series. It's about time this car was offered here in the U.S. When I bought my 2003 325i, I didn't feel the need to pay for the 330i. The 320i specs are similar to my old 325i, a sport package is also offered, and there is a similar price savings.
January 27, 2013, 6:45 am
[QUOTE=jjcruiser; I can't tell you how many dealers in one place or another (not just BMW) have tried to tell me that having an automatic where you control the gear shifting is the "same thing as a manual transmission."[/QUOTE]
Not surprised.