BMW releases 2013 Diesel X5, 3 Series and 5 Series details

by Tim Jones on January 14, 2013, 1:05 pm
BMW 2013 diesel X5 3 series 5 series

BMW plans to introduce three new diesel models to the U.S. in 2013, in addition to the highly successful BMW X5 35d, which reported a sales increase of 39% last year to over 10,000 vehicles (10,276). The 4-cylinder diesel will premiere in the 3 Series Sedan and Touring and the new 6-cylinder diesel will make its debut in the 5 Series. For the first time ever in the U.S., diesel AWD will be offered in the BMW 5 Series.

Read more about BMW's 2013 strategy


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94 responses to BMW releases 2013 Diesel X5, 3 Series and 5 Series details

JSpira commented:
January 14, 2013, 7:40 pm

The 3er diesel name has definitely not been decided upon

Lots of open questions still
BMW 3-SERIES commented:
January 14, 2013, 11:00 pm

About time. Love those 318d getting 60mpg in Europe. Hopefully these crack 50mpgs at least.
d geek commented:
January 14, 2013, 11:04 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpira View Post
The 3er diesel name has definitely not been decided upon

Lots of open questions still
Really? If not the 320d then what?
tol4o commented:
January 15, 2013, 2:44 am

I bet it will be 328d, because 320d will sound too weak for BMWUSA
bimmerdiesel commented:
January 15, 2013, 11:40 am

So far I dont see BMW mentioning anything on their website about diesel plans
mason commented:
January 15, 2013, 12:00 pm

Didn't they say diesel cars should start arriving in late spring? That's around May and June. Given corporate needs to time to produce promotion video, publications, training for marketing, sales and mechanics ........Decision should have been made by now. They can't wait until April (just random number).
62Lincoln commented:
January 15, 2013, 12:46 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerdiesel View Post
So far I dont see BMW mentioning anything on their website about diesel plans
It seems like the website is usually the last thing to get updated - not sure I'd trust that source too much.
d geek commented:
January 15, 2013, 1:12 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerdiesel View Post
So far I dont see BMW mentioning anything on their website about diesel plans
They issued a press release. I'd take it seriously. Websites are generally updated when the vehicle is available for sale.
bimmerdiesel commented:
January 15, 2013, 2:32 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by 62Lincoln View Post
It seems like the website is usually the last thing to get updated - not sure I'd trust that source too much.
I agree. I was hopeful they would showcase some diesel model in auto show.
ProRail commented:
January 15, 2013, 10:50 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpira View Post
The 3er diesel name has definitely not been decided upon

Lots of open questions still
The name has not been decided upon? What does that mean? And why announce it if it has no name? Jeez, just give us a diesel already. Why should we care what you call it?
Axel61 commented:
January 16, 2013, 7:03 am

4 wheel drive on a 5 series?! damn it I would loved it on my 335d
tol4o commented:
January 16, 2013, 11:17 am

I just checked one of the European BMW websites
They have the following interesting models available
320d xdrive Manual
320d xdrive Touring manual
525d xdrive Manual
525d xdrive Touring Auto

I guess none of these will reach US
The rumors about the new upcoming 3 series diesel in US are about 320d Auto /hopefully manual option/ and 320d Touring and also 520d Auto /less possible/ or 535d Auto
tim330i commented:
January 16, 2013, 11:36 am

The diesel bound for the US is a new engine so European models will not directly correlate.

I got some good inside info about the Diesel's coming later this week.

Tim
floydarogers commented:
January 16, 2013, 11:51 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by tol4o View Post
...The rumors about the new upcoming 3 series diesel in US are about 320d Auto /hopefully manual option/ and 320d Touring and also 520d Auto /less possible/ or 535d Auto
I very much doubt that there will be a manual option. The following is in the Diesel Driver's 2013 update article: "Both engines will be mated to an eight-speed automatic transmission and will have selective catalyst reduction (SCR) system that uses urea to meet emissions requirements."

Additionally, note that the "new" 320i sedan that BMW just announced (out of the clear blue!) has a manual option only for the RWD version (not the xDrive). They're cutting down on manuals and that is just the way the marketing cookie crumbles.
tol4o commented:
January 16, 2013, 12:31 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
...They're cutting down on manuals and that is just the way the marketing cookie crumbles.
Very sad, they try to RIP the manual transmission?! Electric steering, no manual, all turbo, Japanese looking design... this is not BMW anymore...
I am glad I have E46 M3 6sp which is one of the last real BMWs
AutoUnion commented:
January 16, 2013, 12:34 pm

5 series AWD diesel is going to be awesome. My next car maybe?
d geek commented:
January 16, 2013, 12:53 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by tim330i View Post
The diesel bound for the US is a new engine so European models will not directly correlate.

I got some good inside info about the Diesel's coming later this week.

Tim
We look forward to the new inside info. It will be interesting to hear engine specifics.

The info provided by BMW insiders last Sep described power output of the 6 cyl coming to N America to be that of the 530d.
tol4o commented:
January 16, 2013, 1:24 pm

As I heard the new 3L diesel will be twin-scroll turbo instead of the present twin-turbo /two independent turbos/
cruise_bone commented:
January 16, 2013, 2:27 pm

This is exciting news but I read it as also suggesting the 320d, or whatever the name is, will not come in Xdrive.
bimmerdiesel commented:
January 16, 2013, 3:18 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by tim330i View Post
The diesel bound for the US is a new engine so European models will not directly correlate.

I got some good inside info about the Diesel's coming later this week.

Tim
Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
We look forward to the new inside info. It will be interesting to hear engine specifics.

The info provided by BMW insiders last Sep described power output of the 6 cyl coming to N America to be that of the 530d.
Always thought all announcements are made in first 2 days. Well I have all my ears and eyes. On sat I was thinking to drive down to Detroit for coming weekend. Friend of mine bought new X1 and he wants to drive so may be I might do hike
d geek commented:
January 16, 2013, 5:16 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by cruise_bone View Post
This is exciting news but I read it as also suggesting the 320d, or whatever the name is, will not come in Xdrive.
Correct- no mention made of a 3er 'd' xDrive. The 5er 'd' is coming with xDrive per the press release.
richk300 commented:
January 16, 2013, 8:01 pm

So glad I bought my 335d, it's such a kick ass car. high mileage diesels don't excite me, been there with my Jetta
Axel61 commented:
January 17, 2013, 8:51 am

Ditto Rick!! Jettas and Golf TDis are great but performance wise I believe, that said. Would love to see the a DIESEL coupe overhere just as in Europe where they have them in bunches
cruise_bone commented:
January 17, 2013, 9:44 am

A 5d xdrive may be my next BMW.
wyb commented:
January 18, 2013, 2:58 pm

YES!!! Diesel AWD!!
AutoUnion commented:
January 18, 2013, 6:45 pm

This was spotted at the Montreal Auto Show by someone on a diff't forum. Engine specs look off, but it's a diesel and has AWD, IN A 3 SERIES!





BB_cuda commented:
January 18, 2013, 7:01 pm

The spec that looks real far out of whack is the 295 lb-ft torque. It says twin turbo too. I thought a 330d was a single turbo. I mention 330d as everyone is speculating we will get the 530d not the 535d this year. If the torque # is valid, maybe there is hope for a manual trans but i doubt it.
EYE4SPEED commented:
January 18, 2013, 7:14 pm

When is the tri-turbo, awd 5er coming? I know the answer unfortunately... never. Will be interested in seeing the awd 5er though.
d geek commented:
January 19, 2013, 12:51 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_cuda View Post
The spec that looks real far out of whack is the 295 lb-ft torque. It says twin turbo too. I thought a 330d was a single turbo. I mention 330d as everyone is speculating we will get the 530d not the 535d this year. If the torque # is valid, maybe there is hope for a manual trans but i doubt it.
TwinPower turbo = twin scroll, not twin turbos.

Saintor snapped this photo of the engine bay of the car at the montreal show. That one is a 4cyl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tim330i View Post
The diesel bound for the US is a new engine so European models will not directly correlate. ...
Another possibility is that it would be the '25d' engine, although that is not in the 3 series anywhere else in the world.
The power output shown in the snapshot from the montreal show is close, but a bit lower than the '25d' in both hp and torque
d geek commented:
January 19, 2013, 12:54 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by tim330i View Post
The diesel bound for the US is a new engine so European models will not directly correlate.

I got some good inside info about the Diesel's coming later this week.

Tim
Its the end of the week...
sunilsf commented:
January 20, 2013, 2:42 am

Diesel is currently running ~ $0.50/gal more than premium, which dampens my enthusiasm for the diesel wagon quite a bit.

Also, what's with the clamor for a manual diesel? With such a low redline, and all the torque down low... Manual diesels aren't that much more fun than an a/t.
The Swede commented:
January 20, 2013, 9:05 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilsf View Post
Diesel is currently running ~ $0.50/gal more than premium, which dampens my enthusiasm for the diesel wagon quite a bit.

Also, what's with the clamor for a manual diesel? With such a low redline, and all the torque down low... Manual diesels aren't that much more fun than an a/t.
Have you ever driven a powerfull diesel with a manual or are you just guessing now?

It's not like driving a Porsche but it has a lot of charm. Especially with al the extra torque that inturns lets you use the clutch much less gently in a for me fun way.
rmorin49 commented:
January 20, 2013, 10:01 am

Isn't it true that a diesel with a manual tranny driven in a particular manner to maximize mileage will, in fact, give the best possible fuel mileage? I understand that with any automatic tranny there is a certain amount of "slippage" that in turns reduces fuel mileage that is until you get into the higher gears in which the driveline is "locked". I probably didn't use the proper terms as I am not an engineer but this is my basic understanding. Doesn't a manual VW TDI have a higher fuel mileage rating that a similarly equipped automatic?
UncleJ commented:
January 20, 2013, 10:45 am

I have driven diesels with manual transmissions and slush boxes over the years and it is true that back then the sticks performed better. However that said, the newer automatics have pretty well negated the advantages with their "lock up" that reduces the dreaded "slippage" from the autobox. I can remember back in the day when the Chevy's had "Powerglide" transmissions -- a two speed torque converter thing -- that was awful. Now of course the new transmissions are much better suited to emissions and gas mileage concerns. Still in certain circumstances and the diesel Golf's and Jetta's are one, the stick will almost certainly return better mileage than VW's box, but not by very much.
Snipe656 commented:
January 20, 2013, 11:06 am

In the past and not sure if still true but the manuals transmissions were lighter and supposedly that was part of why you got better mpg in certain diesels. The automatics though seem better about keeping the boost up between shifts and with more boost is more fuel consumption. So I could see depending on how someone drove their manual that they could sip better fuel economy out of it, assuming gearing between the two is near equal.

I personally don't care for manual transmissions in any type of turbocharged car. It is just me never fully adjusting to them. I have not had a factory one in almost ten years and that was our last Bug. My old race car when I sold it around 5 years ago I had swapped back to a manual as I was taming it down for more street driving.
AutoUnion commented:
January 20, 2013, 12:46 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmorin49 View Post
Isn't it true that a diesel with a manual tranny driven in a particular manner to maximize mileage will, in fact, give the best possible fuel mileage? I understand that with any automatic tranny there is a certain amount of "slippage" that in turns reduces fuel mileage that is until you get into the higher gears in which the driveline is "locked". I probably didn't use the proper terms as I am not an engineer but this is my basic understanding. Doesn't a manual VW TDI have a higher fuel mileage rating that a similarly equipped automatic?
VW gets around the slippage by using a dual clutch unit in their 2.0TDI cars. The 6MT still gets a little better MPG, but it's not a lot.
AutoUnion commented:
January 20, 2013, 12:47 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by EYE4SPEED View Post
When is the tri-turbo, awd 5er coming? I know the answer unfortunately... never. Will be interested in seeing the awd 5er though.
If all these new diesels sell well, i'm sure we'll get some performance diesels in the future
AutoUnion commented:
January 20, 2013, 12:49 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilsf View Post
Diesel is currently running ~ $0.50/gal more than premium, which dampens my enthusiasm for the diesel wagon quite a bit.
Go do some math on a Jetta Sportwagen 2.5 versus TDI. You end up saving money. I think the point where the diesel actually doesn't make sense anymore is if the difference is over $2 a gallon
BMWTurboDzl commented:
January 20, 2013, 4:54 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilsf View Post
Diesel is currently running ~ $0.50/gal more than premium, which dampens my enthusiasm for the diesel wagon quite a bit.
Diesel is about 30% more efficient than comparable gasser. With essentially same entry price diesel would have to be about $1/gal mire expensive.

Sent from my MB525 using Bimmer App
DC-IT commented:
January 21, 2013, 8:32 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
VW gets around the slippage by using a dual clutch unit in their 2.0TDI cars. The 6MT still gets a little better MPG, but it's not a lot.
Whilst the VW DSG tranny is good it requires an expensive service (+$700) every 40,000 miles.
That's why the manual transmission is very popular with the TDI.
I just had to do the DSG service last Dec.
But otherwise the FE is excellent and the performance is more than adequate for daily use.

Sent from my SGH-I717D using Bimmer App
AutoUnion commented:
January 21, 2013, 10:52 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by DC-IT View Post
Whilst the VW DSG tranny is good it requires an expensive service (+$700) every 40,000 miles.
That's why the manual transmission is very popular with the TDI.
I just had to do the DSG service last Dec.
But otherwise the FE is excellent and the performance is more than adequate for daily use.

Sent from my SGH-I717D using Bimmer App
You got ripped off

My local dealer quoted me $450ish for my old Jetta TDI

Fantastic car. Loved the little thing.
mecodoug commented:
January 23, 2013, 11:32 pm

I live in MA, and have a set of 17" winter wheels. I am glad I have RWD, and have never had an issue in 3 winters. Consider the driving dynamics and efficiency..... For those of you who 'need' AWD in your diesels, do you run all season tires? In my opinion RWD with snows is at least as good as AWD with all seasons.
bimmerdiesel commented:
January 24, 2013, 12:23 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by mecodoug View Post
I live in MA, and have a set of 17" winter wheels. I am glad I have RWD, and have never had an issue in 3 winters. Consider the driving dynamics and efficiency..... For those of you who 'need' AWD in your diesels, do you run all season tires? In my opinion RWD with snows is at least as good as AWD with all seasons.
I personally dont see use of AWD unless you are off-roading or driving in hilly areas. But with my previous experience with AWD+all seasons I dont think it compares to RWD with Snows. You loose lot of traction with all seasons. I had both CRv and d during 2010-11 winter and felt a lot comfortable with d.
tol4o commented:
January 24, 2013, 8:51 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerdiesel View Post
I personally dont see use of AWD unless you are off-roading or driving in hilly areas. But with my previous experience with AWD+all seasons I dont think it compares to RWD with Snows. You loose lot of traction with all seasons. I had both CRv and d during 2010-11 winter and felt a lot comfortable with d.
I would not call the CRV an AWD vehicle. It has the sketchiest "AWD system" together with the RAV4
Pasa-d commented:
January 24, 2013, 9:02 am

Having driven an Audi S4 for a decade I can say that RWD is more fun but AWD is superior, even in sunny SoCal. RWD affords the ability to hang the tail out and do some throttle steering but the ability of AWD to allow you to just mash the throttle and have the car LEAP forward is something else. Our diesels would benefit from AWD since they have so much torque, even in dry weather driving. I would definitely be interested in an AWD diesel sedan as long as it's sport oriented.
AutoUnion commented:
January 24, 2013, 9:50 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by mecodoug View Post
I live in MA, and have a set of 17" winter wheels. I am glad I have RWD, and have never had an issue in 3 winters. Consider the driving dynamics and efficiency..... For those of you who 'need' AWD in your diesels, do you run all season tires? In my opinion RWD with snows is at least as good as AWD with all seasons.
I'm not sure I agree with this at all. I'm in Boston also.

A RWD 3 series, even with snows, is useless in a snow storm, simply because it can't get enough traction. An xDrive 3 series can pound through a foot of snow (even on all seasons).

I had a new F30 328xi loaner with all seasons a couple weeks ago. Thing was a tank in 1 ft snow.

This is why I think BMW will have a hard time selling RWD diesel sedans here. They need to be AWD.
AutoUnion commented:
January 24, 2013, 9:52 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by tol4o View Post
I would not call the CRV an AWD vehicle. It has the sketchiest "AWD system" together with the RAV4
Yup. It was terrible.

They just updated the AWD system for the '13 all new RAV4 finally.

Quote:
The 2013 RAV4's all-wheel-drive system is more sophisticated than before, with a computer-controlled electromagnetic coupling transferring power front to rear as required. Up to 50 percent of the engine's torque can be sent to the rear wheels, and the system can be locked at speeds under 25 miles per hour. When set to Sport mode, RAV4 models with all-wheel drive now feature all kinds of computer trickery to help reduce understeer.
Pierre Louis commented:
January 24, 2013, 10:14 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
I'm not sure I agree with this at all. I'm in Boston also.

A RWD 3 series, even with snows, is useless in a snow storm, simply because it can't get enough traction. An xDrive 3 series can pound through a foot of snow (even on all seasons).

I had a new F30 328xi loaner with all seasons a couple weeks ago. Thing was a tank in 1 ft snow.

This is why I think BMW will have a hard time selling RWD diesel sedans here. They need to be AWD.
With modern traction control and yaw control, you might consider trying it before making such general statements, AutoUnion.

I'm not recommending it, but I drove through a pretty bad snow storm in rural Kentucky with my 2005 E320 CDI on half worn all-season low rolling resistance Michelins. The snow was about a foot deep. The car was amazing. Not as good as all wheel drive, but acceptable.

I've had a Miata with a LSD and snows on all 4 wheels which could handle anything that wasn't too high to stop it!

Don't forget, the 3 series Bimmers have 50/50 weight distribution which doesn't do badly for traction, even in RWD. I am a big fan of snows on all 4 wheels: especially was when I lived in New England.

PL
AutoUnion commented:
January 24, 2013, 10:18 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post
With modern traction control and yaw control, you might consider trying it before making such general statements, AutoUnion.
I have. Plus I've lived in New England my whole life.

RWD + snows is still a compromise.

The ramp going into my work's parking garage shows this quite well in the winter. It's not covered, so the snow accumulates and it's not wide enough to get a plow truck inside it. No way a RWD car (even with snows) gets up there. The rear wheels just sit there spinning and the traction control keeps trying to gain some traction, that it can't.

Only cars that get into the garage on snow storm days are the AWD/4WD cars.
Pierre Louis commented:
January 25, 2013, 12:08 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
I have. Plus I've lived in New England my whole life.

RWD + snows is still a compromise.

The ramp going into my work's parking garage shows this quite well in the winter. It's not covered, so the snow accumulates and it's not wide enough to get a plow truck inside it. No way a RWD car (even with snows) gets up there. The rear wheels just sit there spinning and the traction control keeps trying to gain some traction, that it can't.

Only cars that get into the garage on snow storm days are the AWD/4WD cars.
Uh, I guess you're backing off of saying its "useless...."

Agreed then.

PL
tim330i commented:
January 25, 2013, 9:46 am

I've only lived in NE for about 10 years but the winter here is a joke. Snow stays on the ground for a couple days after a big snow storm at best and it might snow "big" a couple times a winter. I've found RWD and snow tires on my E46 M3 better then most FWD cars and have never had an issue getting anywhere for the one day it might be sort of bad.

I couldn't imagine getting AWD for the NE winters.

Tim
listerone commented:
January 25, 2013, 10:55 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by tim330i View Post
I couldn't imagine getting AWD for the NE winters.
I've lived in New England all my life,most of that in the Boston area.It's true that compared to Buffalo,Minneapolis,Denver and Anchorage (for example) Boston's winters aren't that bad.In my entire life I've owned one AWD vehicle and I didn't notice any real benefit.My years with FWD and RWD cars have featured no serious problems in winter and very few problems of *any* magnitude.However,I'd be careful of mocking *all* of New England's winters.Central and northern Vermont's winters,I'm told,don't even remotely resemble Boston's in terms of nastiness.
tim330i commented:
January 25, 2013, 10:59 am

Quote:
I'd be careful of mocking *all* of New England's winters.Central and northern Vermont's winters
Good point. I'm originally from MN and we had some crazy winters growing up. I never had a problem in FWD cars with all season. RWD and winter tires is an amazing amount of grip, which to me is more important then the ability to put torque down. Turning and brake in bad conditional is mostly what you need and AWD doesn't add to either of those.

Tim
taibanl commented:
January 26, 2013, 4:40 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
I'm not sure I agree with this at all. I'm in Boston also.

A RWD 3 series, even with snows, is useless in a snow storm, simply because it can't get enough traction. An xDrive 3 series can pound through a foot of snow (even on all seasons).

I had a new F30 328xi loaner with all seasons a couple weeks ago. Thing was a tank in 1 ft snow.

This is why I think BMW will have a hard time selling RWD diesel sedans here. They need to be AWD.
Complete BS. No problems at ALL in 190inch winter in SYR.
finnbmw commented:
January 26, 2013, 4:51 pm

Living close to the arctic circle for 30 years taught me that AWD > FWD > RWD in snow. But to call RWD useless in snow is a bit of a stretch IMO.
tol4o commented:
January 26, 2013, 8:42 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbmw View Post
Living close to the arctic circle for 30 years taught me that AWD > FWD > RWD in snow. But to call RWD useless in snow is a bit of a stretch IMO.
Finland?
finnbmw commented:
January 26, 2013, 9:05 pm

tol4o commented:
January 26, 2013, 10:55 pm

I believe most of the people that purchased a diesel car in US are either Europeans or Americans who drove diesel car while visiting Europe
UncleJ commented:
January 27, 2013, 11:39 am

Or people who remember them fondly when they were widely sold here in the US! AWD in nice but there are places (like here -- no snow) where it is just another friction drag on fuel economy and something else to go wrong and need fixing. I would buy a RWD before an AWD if I had the option. Unfortunately the cars I like all seem to come with the AWD.
clarkgd commented:
January 28, 2013, 8:41 am

The 4 cyl GLK 250 is now avalable on the Mercedes.ca website well in advance of the proposed X3. No mention yet on the L/100 Km figures but it should be very good. How many of the GLK 250's will be sold at the expense of the X3 an/or 320d with this lead time.
I am certainly interested.
UncleJ commented:
January 28, 2013, 10:28 am

Not only the GLK but probably the Q5TDI and the Jeep GC diesel will also beat the X3 oiler to market here. I really can't understand why BMW is dragging their feet on this when they have a perfect engine already certified and in use in the X5 and earlier in the 335d.
tol4o commented:
January 28, 2013, 10:44 am

GLK will be 2.1L 4cyl turbo diesel and it will get excellent mpg /I believe it will be around 28mpg city and 40mpg hwy
X3 diesel and Q5 TDI will be 3L 6cyl and they will not be able to compete with the GLK's fuel economy
I don't understand what is the problem of BMW and Audi to use 2L diesel in X3 and Q5!?
The power is good enough and the mpg will be amazing
Snipe656 commented:
January 28, 2013, 11:04 am

Audi and BMW probably feel their customers overall care more about performance than fuel economy. Mercedes probably feels that their diesel customers are more of a dedicated base that care more about having a diesel than performance. What baffles me is how people would go about comparing a 4 cylinder diesel SUV to a 6. Seems almost like opposite ends of things to me.
Pierre Louis commented:
January 28, 2013, 11:18 am

Diesels are performance vehicles.

My E320 CDI was a veritable hotrod for a luxury sedan. 0-60 in 6.6 seconds didn't really tell the whole story. 369 ft-lbs of torque. Only the V8 version need compete. Ever try to out-accelerate a Dodge Cummins??

37 mpg is a performance number just like quarter mile times....

PL
Snipe656 commented:
January 28, 2013, 11:27 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post
Diesels are performance vehicles.

My E320 CDI was a veritable hotrod for a luxury sedan. 0-60 in 6.6 seconds. 369 ft-lbs of torque. Only the V8 version need compete. Ever try to out-accelerate a Dodge Cummins??

37 mpg is a performance number just like quarter mile times....

PL
Everyones opinion is different. When I step into an E350 BT it does not feel like it has performance but when I step into a 335d it certainly does. When I step into an ML350 BT it does not feel like it has performance but when I step into an X5d it certainly does. I have driven these things right after their counterpart so it is far from some false impressions on my part.

When I get onto the BMW forum I see more people talking more about performance than when I get on the Mercedes forum and by a long shot too. I also see more people talking of coming from or going to Audi when on the BMW forum but usually not so much on the Mercedes. It really seems like the general population of Mercedes buyers do not care near as much about the performance of their cars than the general population of the BMW/Audi buyers.
tol4o commented:
January 28, 2013, 12:16 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
Audi and BMW probably feel their customers overall care more about performance than fuel economy. Mercedes probably feels that their diesel customers are more of a dedicated base that care more about having a diesel than performance. What baffles me is how people would go about comparing a 4 cylinder diesel SUV to a 6. Seems almost like opposite ends of things to me.
Ok then, what is the problem of offering both engines as an option? They already have these 2L and 3L diesel engines emission certified
I heard BMW will offer 2L diesel in 5 series and I guess their decision is because of MB E250 Bluetec
Selling 5 series with 2L diesel but not the X3? Where is the point?
Snipe656 commented:
January 28, 2013, 12:30 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by tol4o View Post
Ok then, what is the problem of offering both engines as an option? They already have these 2L and 3L diesel engines emission certified
I heard BMW will offer 2L diesel in 5 series and I guess their decision is because of MB E250 Bluetek
Selling 5 series with 2L diesel but not the X3? Where is the point?
Well until any of the cars are actually offered for sale here then I'd not put too much faith in what we hear will come v. what may ultimately actually show up. I am sure also each model from each manufacturer appeals to different types of people. In a perfect world I am sure the manufactures would like to sell a different version of every model that will apply to every type of customer but I bet that is not too cost effective. Heck I remember in the past three years being told a C-class diesel was coming and that seems to not be happening at all.

All anyone can really do is speculate why these manufacturers do what they do as well as when they might do something. Another factor for some of the choices could be for trying to meet overall fuel economy standards across their fleets or even specific models.
Pierre Louis commented:
January 28, 2013, 1:38 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
Everyones opinion is different. When I step into an E350 BT it does not feel like it has performance but when I step into a 335d it certainly does. When I step into an ML350 BT it does not feel like it has performance but when I step into an X5d it certainly does. I have driven these things right after their counterpart so it is far from some false impressions on my part.

When I get onto the BMW forum I see more people talking more about performance than when I get on the Mercedes forum and by a long shot too. I also see more people talking of coming from or going to Audi when on the BMW forum but usually not so much on the Mercedes. It really seems like the general population of Mercedes buyers do not care near as much about the performance of their cars than the general population of the BMW/Audi buyers.
Yeah, your opinion is different...

Mercedes builds cars differently too.

PL
d geek commented:
January 28, 2013, 7:46 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by tol4o View Post
...
I heard BMW will offer 2L diesel in 5 series and I guess their decision is because of MB E250 Bluetek
Selling 5 series with 2L diesel but not the X3? Where is the point?
Where did you hear this?
BB_cuda commented:
January 28, 2013, 9:48 pm

Snipe is right. This is all just a bunch of speculation until the cars come off of the ship. At the outset of this thread, i came to the understanding of 4 cylinders being in the the 3 series and X3 and 6 cylinders being in the 5 series and X5. I'm thinking the 6 cylinder in a 3 series was likely only from 2009 to 2011. We 335d owners may have unique hot rods that only will compare to the coming 5 series but with stiffer steering. After 22.5 kmiles, i'm getting a little better mileage than ever. I got 40.5 mpg on the way home from Galveston with cruise set at 68 mph. Very flat road though [after Galveston causeway].

I wouldn't worry about temporary market share loss to Mercedes and Audi. We have been waiting on Audi's slow ass since 2008 when they teased about A4 TDI. And A6 will get TDI first so they can pull the diesel wanters upmarket to A6 money.
AutoUnion commented:
January 28, 2013, 9:52 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_cuda View Post
I wouldn't worry about temporary market share loss to Mercedes and Audi. We have been waiting on Audi's slow ass since 2008 when they teased about A4 TDI. And A6 will get TDI first so they can pull the diesel wanters upmarket to A6 money.
Audi never went on record to say that the B8 A4 will have a TDI in the market. The Audi USA CEO at the time made it clear it was coming with the next gen (B9), which is soon.

Before BMW even releases their diesels next year, Audi will have Q5, Q7, A3, A6, A7, and A8 TDI here. Mercedes will have GLK, ML, GL, E, S, and C class diesels. Hell, the ML and E Class will be sold with TWO diesels within the next year. Both 4 and 6 cylinder models.

So it's BMW's "slow ass" ****ing around and not bringing diesels here.

The 5d is not until the LCI next year. X3d isn't until LCI. 7 series isn't until next year.
d geek commented:
January 28, 2013, 9:57 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
...
The 5d is not until the LCI next year...
Not according to BMW at NAIAS:
Quote:
BMW also plans to introduce three new diesel models to the U.S. in 2013, in addition to the highly successful BMW X5 35d, which reported a sales increase of 39% last year to over 10,000 vehicles (10,276). The 4-cylinder diesel will premiere in the 3 Series Sedan and Touring and the new 6-cylinder diesel will make its debut in the 5 Series.
This year...
Snipe656 commented:
January 28, 2013, 10:47 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Audi never went on record to say that the B8 A4 will have a TDI in the market. The Audi USA CEO at the time made it clear it was coming with the next gen (B9), which is soon.

Before BMW even releases their diesels next year, Audi will have Q5, Q7, A3, A6, A7, and A8 TDI here. Mercedes will have GLK, ML, GL, E, S, and C class diesels. Hell, the ML and E Class will be sold with TWO diesels within the next year. Both 4 and 6 cylinder models.

So it's BMW's "slow ass" ****ing around and not bringing diesels here.

The 5d is not until the LCI next year. X3d isn't until LCI. 7 series isn't until next year.
I honestly have not been purposely keeping up with the MBZ offerings but I have not seen anything in a long time about a C Bluetec coming over any more. I also have not seen anything that says the E will have a 4 and 6 offerings. Actually the first thing I read on the E250 Bluetec made it sound like it actually is replacing the E350 Bluetec. Have you seen anything in recent months about a C Bluetec or that confirms we will still have a 6 cylinder diesel E class offering?
tol4o commented:
January 29, 2013, 12:22 am

MB E250 Bluetec will replace E350 Bluetec
http://news.finecarsexotics.com/car-...0-bluetec-9143

I am wondering why they don't offer G-Class 350 Bluetec. This amazing off-road machine will benefit from the low rpm high torque diesel

Rubicon diesel will also be a good off-road addition
I believe they might offer Rubicon in the near future with the same italian diesel engine that will be used in Cherokee or at least it's a good idea

My personal opinion is that the all electric vehicles are lost cause
Nobody wants to be hanging in the middle of nowhere desperately waiting for help

Diesel hybrids would have much better chance
Check out this:
http://green.autoblog.com/2012/06/25...chieve-65-mpg/

Too bad the Peugeout was pulled out of USA in 1991. They make one of the best diesel engines in the world
UncleJ commented:
January 29, 2013, 1:23 am

And to top it all off Mazda is RACING their new SkyActive diesel in a Mazda 6 sedan in the Rolex series. The more oil burners the merrier I always say.
Pierre Louis commented:
January 29, 2013, 5:56 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by tol4o View Post
MB E250 Bluetec will replace E350 Bluetec
http://news.finecarsexotics.com/car-...0-bluetec-9143

I am wondering why they don't offer G-Class 350 Bluetec. This amazing off-road machine will benefit from the low rpm high torque diesel

Rubicon diesel will also be a good off-road addition
I believe they might offer Rubicon in the near future with the same italian diesel engine that will be used in Cherokee or at least it's a good idea

My personal opinion is that the all electric vehicles are lost cause
Nobody wants to be hanging in the middle of nowhere desperately waiting for help

Diesel hybrids would have much better chance
Check out this:
http://green.autoblog.com/2012/06/25...chieve-65-mpg/

Too bad the Peugeout was pulled out of USA in 1991. They make one of the best diesel engines in the world
The reviews on the GL350 Bluetec are that it is underpowered, so a G class version which is a heavier vehicle would be worse.

The new Peugeot diesels suffer from intake manifold crud - per my nephew in France - unless you drive them like you are supposed to - hard.

PL
Snipe656 commented:
January 29, 2013, 6:49 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by tol4o View Post
MB E250 Bluetec will replace E350 Bluetec
http://news.finecarsexotics.com/car-...0-bluetec-9143
This is along the lines of what I have read. Not two diesel E-classes but a 4-cylinder to replace the current 6. Since I do not like how their current 6 drives, in either format since different slightly in the ML than the E, then can't say I have any desire to look into the upcoming 4. Admittedly my biggest issue with how the Bluetecs drive is most likely all around the lack of responsiveness from the transmissions. But like I said before, until the tires hit the ground over here I am not going to get high hopes one way or the other about diesel model announcements.
UncleJ commented:
January 29, 2013, 10:49 am

All these marques are trying to get up to the forthcoming CAFE standards so we will see a plethora of "economical" engines coming up -- fortunately that does include lots of oil burners! The new turbo 4 potters will be "adequate" and provide decent performance but will not be up to the barn burner 335d level. On the other hand getting 40 plus mpg is hardly a bitter pill to swallow either. MB's GLK 240d should be decent, especially if it were offered in 2wd (less weight). The "performer" I see in this group is the Q5 TDI if it has the same 240 hp diesel as the rest of the VW/Porsche/Audi "big" offerings since it will be lighter.
Snipe656 commented:
January 29, 2013, 11:05 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleJ View Post
All these marques are trying to get up to the forthcoming CAFE standards so we will see a plethora of "economical" engines coming up -- fortunately that does include lots of oil burners! The new turbo 4 potters will be "adequate" and provide decent performance but will not be up to the barn burner 335d level. On the other hand getting 40 plus mpg is hardly a bitter pill to swallow either. MB's GLK 240d should be decent, especially if it were offered in 2wd (less weight). The "performer" I see in this group is the Q5 TDI if it has the same 240 hp diesel as the rest of the VW/Porsche/Audi "big" offerings since it will be lighter.
I read more than once that the GLK Bluetec will not be offered in 2wd.

I rethought my statement on the E250 though, if it were offered with a manual transmission then I'd consider one. This assumes that the base price would not be drastically north of where it is today for the current Bluetec and actually hopefully would be less.
BB_cuda commented:
January 29, 2013, 9:21 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Audi never went on record to say that the B8 A4 will have a TDI in the market. The Audi USA CEO at the time made it clear it was coming with the next gen (B9), which is soon.

Before BMW even releases their diesels next year, Audi will have Q5, Q7, A3, A6, A7, and A8 TDI here. Mercedes will have GLK, ML, GL, E, S, and C class diesels. Hell, the ML and E Class will be sold with TWO diesels within the next year. Both 4 and 6 cylinder models.

So it's BMW's "slow ass" ****ing around and not bringing diesels here.

The 5d is not until the LCI next year. X3d isn't until LCI. 7 series isn't until next year.
My sour attitude towards Audi TDI is from around 2008. I know they are bringing a decent fleet of diesels ... finally. Yes, i get the piont of BMW being slow relative to the other german makers in 2013 offereings. My point was I distinctly remember of A4 speculation with 3 L TDI power way before the B9 w/TDI delay was announced. As you say, i had seen the announcement to wait until A4 got the B9 changeover to save on the federalizations costs.

I am a sedan person. A test drove the A3 but wasn't impressed. A Q7 was way too much size for me as I already have a full size ram truck [that i have kept] and wanted something that would get mid to high thirties in the mileage dept. I didn't think settling for an A3 would be a happy experience with its 101" wheel base. So, I really wanted the compromise between the 2 extremes and it just wasn't happening. So, the closest thing i see coming to an A4 is an A6 which is more money. So in 2011, i decided i couldn't wait for a 2014 A4 B9 and went for the 2011 335D. My one regret is the 110" wheel base in the A4 and F30 but neither have the turbodiesel. 3 years was too long to wait and i didn't want to poney up A6 money. I'm not a Q5 fan but not dissing them. Just not my cup of tea.

I did test drive a 2008 common rail diesel equipped Jeep Grand Cherokee with the Mercedes built V6 turbodiesel. It is nothing like the 335D in terms of performance.

The funny thing about the A6 TDI is it appears the first thing coming out from BMW appears to be its nearest competitor in the 535D [some are saying 530D but you get my point].

So, the slow ass comment is probably not as a whole fair toward Audi but it is fair in the mid size sedan segment. E350 bluetec is the only game in town right now this minute but once again its starting cost is in the region of A6 at ~$62 grand.
Snipe656 commented:
January 29, 2013, 9:26 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_cuda View Post
So, the slow ass comment is probably not as a whole fair toward Audi but it is fair in the mid size sedan segment. E350 bluetec is the only game in town right now this minute but once again its starting cost is in the region of A6 at ~$62 grand.
E350 Bluetec starts off at $52k. You can option them up to pretty high prices if that is your cup of tea but starting cost is $52k Usually you can get some money off of them even if MB is not running some sort of special. I'd bought one if they were making them back when I got my 335d instead. Matter of fact the sole reason I went looking at other options is because no Bluetec sedan existed in the MY 2010. I'd been fine had I got into a E350 Bluetec and never experienced the 335d, instead I got spoiled by the 335d and my expectations changed.
UncleJ commented:
January 30, 2013, 10:14 am

I saw an article that did say the new GLK 250d would only be offered as a "4-Motion" -- I just hope that is "at first". Since the 2wd will get better mileage -- if only because of lighter weight -- it would make sense to bring it over. I believe the Q5 TDI is also a 4WD only (for now) offerning too.
AutoUnion commented:
January 30, 2013, 10:23 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleJ View Post
I saw an article that did say the new GLK 250d would only be offered as a "4-Motion" -- I just hope that is "at first". Since the 2wd will get better mileage -- if only because of lighter weight -- it would make sense to bring it over. I believe the Q5 TDI is also a 4WD only (for now) offerning too.
Rumors on the various MB forums is that CDI will be diesel first, then RWD later because the GLK is sold here in the US in both configs.

Q5 TDI will be Quattro-only. They don't make a FWD Q5...in any engine configuration.
AutoUnion commented:
January 30, 2013, 10:25 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_cuda View Post
So, the slow ass comment is probably not as a whole fair toward Audi but it is fair in the mid size sedan segment. E350 bluetec is the only game in town right now this minute but once again its starting cost is in the region of A6 at ~$62 grand.
E Class CDI starts around $52k, not $62k.

Even the mid-level A6 bases under $50k. Add about $4k for the TDI, would base around $54k.

Let's not forget a 3 series can EASILY get into mid-$50k region these days.
AutoUnion commented:
January 30, 2013, 10:27 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
Not according to BMW at NAIAS:

This year...
I think the F10 LCI is supposed to be out MY14, so it would be out by Fall 13. No reason to introduce the diesel and then LCI the F10 a year later.
BB_cuda commented:
January 30, 2013, 2:53 pm

thanks for correcting my bad e350 Blutech cost #. Just as a point of refernce, base MSRP for a 335D was $44k for 2011 model. Yes, my msport with several packages was $57k sticker. I guess my point is that i normally am going to throw 8 to 10 grand in upgrades with sport and nav and premium (BMW) or premium plus (A4) along with premium stereo.

So, an A6 nicely equipped could be pushing $58k with TDI. Sorry to distract the thread with cost whining :-).
AutoUnion commented:
January 30, 2013, 3:03 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_cuda View Post
So, an A6 nicely equipped could be pushing $58k with TDI. Sorry to distract the thread with cost whining :-).
I agree. Cost is getting out of hand a little. For example, I'm torn between an A7 TDI or Cayenne Diesel for my next car. A Prestige S-Line A7 TDI hits $70k and the loaded Cayenne TDI is $75k
tol4o commented:
January 30, 2013, 3:57 pm

I'd love to see any premium make /Audi, BMW, MB/ diesel with manual box /not counting VW/
bimmerdiesel commented:
January 30, 2013, 5:06 pm

I am addicted to torque so who so ever offers 400+ torques gets my business. A4, 3 or C. 5 series, A6 or E class will probably be over budget and overkill for my driving needs.
d geek commented:
February 3, 2013, 9:59 am

Looks like the first new BMW diesel offerings will be available in July.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=674043
d geek commented:
February 3, 2013, 10:01 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by cruise_bone View Post
This is exciting news but I read it as also suggesting the 320d, or whatever the name is, will not come in Xdrive.
It will come as 328d, will be available with xDrive in both sedan and wagon form
AutoUnion commented:
February 3, 2013, 10:16 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
Looks like the first new BMW diesel offerings will be available in July.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=674043
BMW is finally listening to US! 328xd and in wagon form!!
d geek commented:
February 3, 2013, 10:45 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by tim330i View Post
The diesel bound for the US is a new engine so European models will not directly correlate.

I got some good inside info about the Diesel's coming later this week.

Tim
Hey Tim-
Any engine info for us?
thanks in advance
tol4o commented:
February 3, 2013, 2:59 pm

I was sure the name of the 3-series 2L diesel will be 328d. The last thing is we hope manual will be available