Can someone explain BMW's logic with the F30 320i?
Ok, now that the configuration is up on bmwusa and you can build a 320, I am more confused than I previously was. What the heck is the point of the 320 here in the US. 98% of BMW 3 series buyers buy the pre-configured setup on the dealer lot which essentially will include leather seats, power seats, wood trim, moonroof, and possibly navigation. Yes, the sports package is a bargain (especially the m suspension...paired with 180hp 
), but no 320 buyer is going to want a sports package (not that type of buyer). Once you build the 320 the way BMWNA will to stock dealer lots, the numbers aren't that far off. As a matter of fact, the lease is only going to be ~$30 cheaper than a base 328 similarly built (again depending on residual and money factor). What the heck is the point of this?
If BMW follows the Cadillac ATS philosophy expect 40% of sales next year to be 320s. 40% to be 328s. 20% to be 335s.
), but no 320 buyer is going to want a sports package (not that type of buyer). Once you build the 320 the way BMWNA will to stock dealer lots, the numbers aren't that far off. As a matter of fact, the lease is only going to be ~$30 cheaper than a base 328 similarly built (again depending on residual and money factor). What the heck is the point of this?If BMW follows the Cadillac ATS philosophy expect 40% of sales next year to be 320s. 40% to be 328s. 20% to be 335s.
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January 16, 2013, 10:14 pm
The question is if the premium package on the 320i is mistakenly not including leather. If it is, then the numbers are off by 1450. If it doesn't include leather, then you are right, pricing is very similar.
January 16, 2013, 10:19 pm
We need another thread for this?
January 16, 2013, 10:19 pm
In a nutshell, it's a $4,300 Non-Performance Package.
It allows for two customers to stay in BMW showrooms and not run off to competitors:
1. 328i customer that wants a few options, can't take a $499 monthly lease payment. They trade off horsepower for the Tech package or the Sport package, save a few thousand dollars in the process, they're at $399. SOLD.
2. Honda Accord customer that's tired of the same old Japanese car, has recently gotten promoted, just bought a house, takes it at $299 straight-up or adds a package to get to $349. SOLD.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 10:46 pm
It allows for two customers to stay in BMW showrooms and not run off to competitors:
1. 328i customer that wants a few options, can't take a $499 monthly lease payment. They trade off horsepower for the Tech package or the Sport package, save a few thousand dollars in the process, they're at $399. SOLD.
2. Honda Accord customer that's tired of the same old Japanese car, has recently gotten promoted, just bought a house, takes it at $299 straight-up or adds a package to get to $349. SOLD.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 10:48 pm
With the 320i, she's in there comfortably. She's 73, doesn't need 275 horses, now she can trade them for Premium and Technology and have a couple grand to spare.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 10:57 pm
With the 320i, she's in there comfortably. She's 73, doesn't need 275 horses, now she can trade them for Premium and Technology and have a couple grand to spare.
BJ
Yeah, you can get the car for $34k...only it won't have wood, sunroof, memory seats, leather, etc. What is the point?
January 16, 2013, 11:37 pm
If BMW follows the Cadillac ATS philosophy expect 40% of sales next year to be 320s. 40% to be 328s. 20% to be 335s.
What makes you think any fewer 320i buyers will opt for the very affordable sport package than E46 325i buyers, which had very similar engine output and performance numbers? Especially when the price difference becomes $3,950 between a 320i sport package model v a 328i Sport line model.
January 16, 2013, 11:46 pm
Yeah, you can get the car for $34k...only it won't have wood, sunroof, memory seats, leather, etc. What is the point?
328i Auto $42,645
Premium
Heated Seats
PDC
The build that my mother would have taken if available:
320i Auto $38,595
Premium
Heated Seats
That's $4,000 less, a 10% savings, simply for trading off horsepower.
Now, if she wanted to put that back into the car, get to that same $42,645 level as the 328i, her build would have looked like this:
320i Auto $42,595
Premium Package
Driver Assistance Package
Lighting Package
Navigation
BMW Assist
Enhanced Bluetooth & USB
Heated Seats
So, instead of running to Acura, she'd have had two choices:
1. Get a 320i with the same options, save $4,000
2. Get a 320i with extra options Driver Assistance Package, Lighting Package, Navigation, BMW Assist, Enhanced Bluetooth & USB for the same money.
And that's the entire point. As I said in the first post, it allows someone to either hit a $299 monthly payment practically stripped -or- to hit a $399 monthly payment fully loaded.
The 320i is a $4,300 Performance Delete Option that allows someone to trade off horsepower for gobs of goodies. It's a very smart move. Would have kept my mom from Acura, thousands of other moms too.
BJ
January 16, 2013, 11:49 pm
With the 320i, she's in there comfortably. She's 73, doesn't need 275 horses, now she can trade them for Premium and Technology and have a couple grand to spare.
BJ
To OP, how did you conclude a 320i will lease for just $20 less than a 328i?
January 17, 2013, 1:29 am
To OP, how did you conclude a 320i will lease for just $20 less than a 328i?
I have found it to be a great resource for Internet forum discussions,
CA
January 17, 2013, 3:00 am
Ok, bear with me I'm only a medical student and not an MBA. I'm sorry, but I still don't see how this new model makes any sense. Granted there is only one thing more boring to me than thinking about lease payments for an old guy's even older mother (and that would be the three pages of gram positive and gram negative bacteria I have to memorize). But let's see now:
The $38,595 320 is ~$439 a month.
The $42,645 328 is ~$486 a month
When you're already paying ~$17,000 to lease a car for three years, what is another $1,700 more? I just don't see it. Was it really worth BMW rolling in yet another model just to cut the lease price 10%?
Believe me, I understand that "badge whores" will be all over this...but really I can't see it putting a ton more sales in BMW portfolio. 180hp is not enough for this car. I have the same engine in my 528 and my mother has a 328 with the I4. In both cars it is barely enough with the added torque being the mitigating factor. This engine is going to suck, big time.
January 17, 2013, 3:02 am
January 17, 2013, 3:06 am
I have found it to be a great resource for Internet forum discussions,
January 17, 2013, 3:19 am
What makes you think any fewer 320i buyers will opt for the very affordable sport package than E46 325i buyers, which had very similar engine output and performance numbers? Especially when the price difference becomes $3,950 between a 320i sport package model v a 328i Sport line model.
Yes, the sports package is quite a bargain on the 320 for what you get. Yes, buyers might have jumped all over this...if this was 1999. I don't have the data, but how many 3 series sold actually have the sports "line" nowadays? What good is a sports package if the car is under-powered by today's standards. But yes, i do agree with you and the sports packaged 320 may be the only thing that actually makes sense in this scenario. However, this will only effect (or is it affect) ~1% of actual sales.
January 17, 2013, 3:51 am
January 17, 2013, 4:15 am
I wonder if BMW will include a de badging option in the us with the introduction of the 320?
January 17, 2013, 7:15 am
Additionally, the stripper will have deep discounts to hit $299 which is the reason BMW is doing this. You can't go to some random fifth grade lease calculator to see that. If you paid attention to your own image in the very first post, you'd see that BMW is currently offering a 328i with Premium for $369 a month. The 320i will be $299 a month, plain and simple. That $70 means a lot to fixed income retired mom's and debt-laden graduate students as you'll find out.
Like you said, stick to medicine.
BJ
January 17, 2013, 11:25 am
It all depends on what model BMW wants to push to the market.
Personally I find it hard to believe they are willing to cut their profit by up to $4k by replacing their volume seller from 328i to 320i. But if threatened by the cheap models from the competitors, they could easily subsidize the 320i leases, which could easily make a $70+/mo. difference.
January 17, 2013, 11:44 am
January 17, 2013, 12:05 pm
Additionally, the stripper will have deep discounts to hit $299 which is the reason BMW is doing this. You can't go to some random fifth grade lease calculator to see that. If you paid attention to your own image in the very first post, you'd see that BMW is currently offering a 328i with Premium for $369 a month. The 320i will be $299 a month, plain and simple. That $70 means a lot to fixed income retired mom's and debt-laden graduate students as you'll find out.
Like you said, stick to medicine.
BJ
its a sub $300 per month bmw to get them into the showrooms, once that obstacle is crossed, upsell with some packages. its easier to get an edge buyer in at 299, vs even 309.
January 17, 2013, 12:06 pm
Premium
Heated Seats
PDC
The build that my mother would have taken if available:
320i Auto $38,595
Premium
Heated Seats
That's $4,000 less, a 10% savings, simply for trading off horsepower.
BJ
January 17, 2013, 12:23 pm
When my sister was looking to lease an E92 about 15 months ago I took her to two dealers. One quoted about $57 a month more than the other for exactly the same car. This was a no brainer.
That payment difference of "a little over" $40 a month can easily becomes $60-$70 when the dealer touches that contract. And even when the dealer is taken out of the equation, a difference is "just" $40 a month is enough to sway a potential customer to another car or even brand.
For sure my sister would have done that.
January 17, 2013, 12:28 pm
She wants the keyless entry/garage door opener. It's bundled into the Premium packages unfortunately. So another benefit of the 320i is that she doesn't have to pay for leather she doesn't want.
BJ
January 17, 2013, 1:10 pm
January 17, 2013, 1:32 pm
Yeah, you can get the car for $34k...only it won't have wood, sunroof, memory seats, leather, etc. What is the point?
you mean like an actual race car? no clue.
January 17, 2013, 1:38 pm
Lets look at these 2 cars equipped differently. Leather, Sport, Metallic paint only. The 328i is $42,245.00 and the 320i is $36,645.00. Yes the 320 is missing power memory seats and fold down rear seats but not much else except 60 hp for $5600.00. That's the sweet spot.
January 17, 2013, 1:46 pm
As in my mother's example, many people can be swayed very easily off of a feature in order to save money or get a more important feature.
My mom would trade the horsepower and the leather for a garage door opener and comfort access and in the process save $5000. She would be ecstatic. Because, to her, leather isn't that important and she doesn't drive in a spirited fashion.
Used to be that in order to get into a 3 Series BMW forced you to take an overkill engine and forced you to take leather just to get other basic options. By un-bundling the Premium package and creating a Performance Delete option, BMW has opened up a whole new world of opportunity for frustrated customers.
My mother must've been on a focus group or something. This is the exact situation she faced and the reason why she went to Acura.
BJ
January 17, 2013, 2:04 pm
....
Used to be that in order to get into a 3 Series BMW forced you to take an overkill engine and forced you to take leather just to get other basic options. By un-bundling the Premium package and creating a Performance Delete option, BMW has opened up a whole new world of opportunity for frustrated customers.
BJ
January 17, 2013, 2:09 pm
Believe me, I understand that "badge whores" will be all over this...but really I can't see it putting a ton more sales in BMW portfolio. 180hp is not enough for this car. I have the same engine in my 528 and my mother has a 328 with the I4. In both cars it is barely enough with the added torque being the mitigating factor. This engine is going to suck, big time.
January 17, 2013, 4:06 pm
As in my mother's example, many people can be swayed very easily off of a feature in order to save money or get a more important feature.
My mom would trade the horsepower and the leather for a garage door opener and comfort access and in the process save $5000. She would be ecstatic. Because, to her, leather isn't that important and she doesn't drive in a spirited fashion.
Used to be that in order to get into a 3 Series BMW forced you to take an overkill engine and forced you to take leather just to get other basic options. By un-bundling the Premium package and creating a Performance Delete option, BMW has opened up a whole new world of opportunity for frustrated customers.
My mother must've been on a focus group or something. This is the exact situation she faced and the reason why she went to Acura.
BJ
January 17, 2013, 4:17 pm
Sometimes, it is much more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow.
January 17, 2013, 5:12 pm
Sometimes, it is much more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow.
January 17, 2013, 5:17 pm
January 17, 2013, 5:37 pm
Yeah, you can get the car for $34k...only it won't have wood, sunroof, memory seats, leather, etc. What is the point?[/QUOTE]
It's still a BIMMER! That's the point!!
Is this less of a M3 just because it not loaded up? http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho....php?p=7310956
January 17, 2013, 8:30 pm
Sometimes, it is much more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow.
And 0-60 in 7.1 is not really a slow car is it???
January 17, 2013, 9:14 pm
320i sport, lighting packs + sunroof + heated seats ---> 37195$
328i sportline, lighting pack + sunroof + heated seats ---> 42695$
5500$+txs+financing is enough to make think twice.
January 17, 2013, 9:28 pm
As in my mother's example, many people can be swayed very easily off of a feature in order to save money or get a more important feature.
My mom would trade the horsepower and the leather for a garage door opener and comfort access and in the process save $5000. She would be ecstatic. Because, to her, leather isn't that important and she doesn't drive in a spirited fashion.
Used to be that in order to get into a 3 Series BMW forced you to take an overkill engine and forced you to take leather just to get other basic options. By un-bundling the Premium package and creating a Performance Delete option, BMW has opened up a whole new world of opportunity for frustrated customers.
My mother must've been on a focus group or something. This is the exact situation she faced and the reason why she went to Acura.
BJ
She is now in an Acura TL, and uses her own garage door opener.
She had a 328, but the Acura was cheaper this time around, and is still a (yuucch, really?) 'luxury' car that she can be seen driving in.
Prior to that it was a Lexus ES.
As long as she can say that she is in a late-model 'luxury' car, she doesn't care how it drives.
She would have been in a 320 in a minute.
January 17, 2013, 9:35 pm
it is targeted towards certain type of buyer maybe why all the fuss if difference is so little, the question at the end will be does it worth getting 328 for that extra 50 hp. it all depends how good 180hp is.
January 17, 2013, 10:04 pm
Yeah, you can get the car for $34k...only it won't have wood, sunroof, memory seats, leather, etc. What is the point?
January 17, 2013, 10:25 pm
I just don't get the 320i. I think it just cheapens the 3 series line. The A4 has 211hp and 258 lb ft of torque, standard leather, 10 speaker stereo, sunroof. It starts at $32,500. The 328i and 335i make sense because they are rear wheel drive and have more horsepower than the competition. People will be driving their $55k loaded 335i around and have to explain to people that they have "the good one" instead of the 320i that looks just like it. The 328i is a very nice small step down. We don't need a third step down.
January 17, 2013, 10:31 pm
If I was younger, and not so enjoying of comfortable amenities as I am now, I could easily get a very enjoyable 320 6MT for 40 thou.
I would love rowing the stick, cutting the curves, powering up hills, and doing everything else I do when I drive a car for pleasure. That it has fewer horses would make no difference if I weren't racing anyone, since it still has enough power to do everything it needs to do.
M-sport, xenons, and leather can be had for under 40K, and if needed, I could do without the leather, but, at that price point, it could still be easily done.
That gives you all the sporty bits you need for driving pleasure.
January 17, 2013, 10:35 pm
She is now in an Acura TL, and uses her own garage door opener.
She had a 328, but the Acura was cheaper this time around, and is still a (yuucch, really?) 'luxury' car that she can be seen driving in.
Prior to that it was a Lexus ES.
As long as she can say that she is in a late-model 'luxury' car, she doesn't care how it drives.
She would have been in a 320 in a minute.
Create a brand new step-down car to address the value proposition or do something different enough with the F30 to make a less expensive car without interfering with the more expensive versions.
What they've done is create a car that most performance-oriented customers wouldn't want but the masses would. My mom doesn't need a firm suspension, big engine, or leather if it means that she can get under a $375 monthly lease payment comfortably as that's what her budget demands. She'll get a 320i when the TL is up, I can guarantee you of that. She always had 3's and 5's until BMW raised prices and couldn't compete on features. Now she can come back.
BJ
January 17, 2013, 10:36 pm
I would love rowing the stick, cutting the curves, powering up hills, and doing everything else I do when I drive a car for pleasure. That it has fewer horses would make no difference if I weren't racing anyone, since it still has enough power to do everything it needs to do.
M-sport, xenons, and leather can be had for under 40K, and if needed, I could do without the leather, but, at that price point, it could still be easily done.
That gives you all the sporty bits you need for driving pleasure.
January 17, 2013, 10:55 pm
It also explains a few things, maybe answers how BMW is trying to differentiate the expensive 3's from the new 3:
1. "The Lines" - This makes sense now, the reason why there are so many demonstrative visual cues that make the more expensive models look different. Knowing that they were going to come out with a 320i at $299, those with Luxury/Sport/Modern cars have a decent amount of chrome and wheel variances to denote a 'well-optioned' car from a stripper. Also explains the fender badges that are in other countries but not the US.
2. The Softer Suspension - The lower the prices, the fewer the enthusiasts, the more the 'common folk' and they don't like particularly harsh rides where you can feel every road imperfection and your back snaps over every pothole. By softening the standard suspension it allowed the 320i to feel more comfortable for the average driver.
3. The Steering - It's a lot easier, a lot more effortless.
4. The Experience Modes - Use technology to differentiate the rides, make the car more specific yet appeal to a broader audience simultaneously.
5. The 4 Cylinder Engine - One can make the argument that the 320i begot the 328i and not the other way around. That BMW knew it was going to have a low HP engine for the $30,000 car and decided to beef it up and release it first in the $40,000 car, then let it loose in its natural, less-powerful form in the second year. Perhaps the 320i is why we lost the NA 6, not for more earth-friendly reasons.
I'm sure there are others. Point is, the 335i and 328i were conceived in concert with the 320i for release in America, the relationships and differences come into greater clarity when you look under the hood a bit.
BJ
January 17, 2013, 11:04 pm
CA
January 17, 2013, 11:16 pm
The 320i clearly is not some thing BMW just "created" for the US market. They could have brought it here long ago but they did not. To say it is to compete with the CLA and A3 is a stretch.
The other thing to consider, 320i is sold all over the world except US, a lot of them were built for the European market. Now Europe is in the tank, where do you find the market for a model that could not sell there? Well bring it to a hot market that never had it.
January 17, 2013, 11:24 pm
I bought the car I wanted and it honestly does not bother me that it looks identical to cars that cost considerably less.
CA
For those who want a little bit of attention and enjoy the pat on the back the roundel brings, nothing changes. I've been driving 3 Series since 2006 and I've yet to run into anyone remotely close to the type of 'performance enthusiast' persona we've got going on here. No one I've ever run into or come across could look at my cars and differentiate them from any other E93, E90, or F30 on the road.
To the inside world, we know the difference between a $55,000 335i and a $30,000 320i.
To the outside world, we're all painted with the same brush, we're all driving $60,000 yuppie status symbols.
I don't care either way, I just love my F30, I've got no skin in the game, but that's real-world perception.
BJ
January 17, 2013, 11:30 pm
For those who want a little bit of attention and enjoy the pat on the back the roundel brings, nothing changes. I've been driving 3 Series since 2006 and I've yet to run into anyone remotely close to the type of 'performance enthusiast' persona we've got going on here. No one I've ever run into or come across could look at my cars and differentiate them from any other E93, E90, or F30 on the road.
To the inside world, we know the difference between a $55,000 335i and a $30,000 320i.
To the outside world, we're all painted with the same brush, we're all driving $60,000 yuppie status symbols.
I don't care either way, I just love my F30, I've got no skin in the game, but that's real-world perception.
BJ
January 17, 2013, 11:39 pm
I live in the BMW 3 Series capital of the world, Bergen County New Jersey, only 12 minutes from BMW USA Corporate Headquarters in Park Ridge. And I can tell you, without exaggeration, I must see 30 E90's and F30's a day. And that's if I drive 30 minutes. If I drive an hour or two, forget it, I can't even count how many I see.
When I drive by these other cars, I look straight through the windshield to see who's driving them. You know, maybe get an enthusiast to give me the look, maybe get an admirer to give me the ol' thumbs up. They never do. What I see through those scores of 3 Series windshields are mostly women, mostly 46 years old, all hauling kids around town at 28 MPH.
I'm not sure what college town you live in, but there aren't any college kids that I see on the roads around here. I'd say 1 out of every 100 E90's I see on the road are driven by 18-22 year olds, and almost all of them are in dad's car.
I'm sure that at BMW HQ some marketers do modeling around age demography, but what they've done to the F30 doesn't support your "get younger" theory. The car is bigger, softer, and more luxurious. The lower price helps, but this isn't a Civic, never will be.
BMW lowered the price to go after more-of-same. Plenty of 50-somethings out there who want a BMW and can afford a BMW but were tired of having to live with a firm suspension and powerful engine they didn't want and eschew features like a garage door opener or nav that they did want in the process. BMW forced you to pay for more engine and more suspension than you really needed; now they've corrected it, now you can delete that performance and put the $4,300 to goodies instead. It's as simple as that.
BJ
January 18, 2013, 12:47 am
The brass at BMW AG may be amused by all the rationalizing from US folks, probably they simply have to move the unsold 320i allocation in Europe to the US(and Asia).
January 18, 2013, 5:56 am
The 320 also follows the "Goldilocks Rule" in marketing: If you offer 3 choices, most people will buy the middle option (328). With just 2 choices, most people will buy the bottom option, because they don't want to spend too much. With three options, you have price-constrained people buying the bottom option (320) and most people buying the middle option (328) -- because it's still not the most expensive option (so they're being prudent) but it's also not the least expensive option (so they avoid looking cheap). In short, the 328 becomes the safe middle option. The 320 not only brings in new customers that BMW never had before, it also gives BMW an upsell model it never had in the past.
This is classic marketing, using a three-tier product structure to increase sales. There's a reason BMW has had the 3, 5, and 7 Series, Mercedes has had the C, E, and S Series, and Audi has had the A4, A6, and A8 Series. BMW's 2, 4, and 6 Series are now bringing the Goldilocks Rule to coupes.
January 18, 2013, 6:35 am
I personnally love that BMW is coming out with the 320i. I'm not ready to buy another BMW yet, still loving my 05 545i, but I would much rather buy a new stripped down 320i new then buy used again. I dont' care about all the bells and whistles. Leatherette is just fine with me.
Sunroof, blah, I wish BMW would come back with the moonroof that had no glass and was the same body color.
January 18, 2013, 8:22 am
I've discussed this issue with my CA before. The majority of 3ers that his dealership sells (really leases) and therefore stocks are the ones that matched the advertised lease deal: 328i w/premium, no other options.
Their #1 3er customer that leases these are mid to late 20s guys with a better than average 1st or 2nd job who want the badge for perceived prestige, nothing else. People like those on this forum that custom order 3ers with loads of options are in reality few and far between.
Therefore, that typical customer will now take a 320i instead and save $60-100/mo. on their lease payment.
January 18, 2013, 9:34 am
January 18, 2013, 9:55 am
This is classic marketing, using a three-tier product structure to increase sales. There's a reason BMW has had the 3, 5, and 7 Series, Mercedes has had the C, E, and S Series, and Audi has had the A4, A6, and A8 Series. BMW's 2, 4, and 6 Series are now bringing the Goldilocks Rule to coupes.
It sells well in the UK and continental Europe with a ton of engine choices, not just three.
The 3 series coupes did well whether they were 1 of 1 (no 6 series) or 1 of 2 coupes in the lineup.
The eco-credits and dealer discounting, the last years of the E90 had the 335d as the middle priced option. That didn't sell very well.
If you ignore diesels, BMW's 3 series was actually 328, 335, and M3.
Among 3, 5 and 7 series, most people buy the 3 series, negating the idea that the middle product always does well.
Audi's B8 sales started with a 2.0T, 3.2, and S4. Sales diverged to both ends to such an extreme extent that the 3.2 barely sold and was removed.
Not everything follows a marketing textbook.
January 18, 2013, 10:20 am
I live in the BMW 3 Series capital of the world, Bergen County New Jersey, only 12 minutes from BMW USA Corporate Headquarters in Park Ridge. And I can tell you, without exaggeration, I must see 30 E90's and F30's a day. And that's if I drive 30 minutes. If I drive an hour or two, forget it, I can't even count how many I see.
When I drive by these other cars, I look straight through the windshield to see who's driving them. You know, maybe get an enthusiast to give me the look, maybe get an admirer to give me the ol' thumbs up. They never do. What I see through those scores of 3 Series windshields are mostly women, mostly 46 years old, all hauling kids around town at 28 MPH.
I'm not sure what college town you live in, but there aren't any college kids that I see on the roads around here. I'd say 1 out of every 100 E90's I see on the road are driven by 18-22 year olds, and almost all of them are in dad's car.
I'm sure that at BMW HQ some marketers do modeling around age demography, but what they've done to the F30 doesn't support your "get younger" theory. The car is bigger, softer, and more luxurious. The lower price helps, but this isn't a Civic, never will be.
BMW lowered the price to go after more-of-same. Plenty of 50-somethings out there who want a BMW and can afford a BMW but were tired of having to live with a firm suspension and powerful engine they didn't want and eschew features like a garage door opener or nav that they did want in the process. BMW forced you to pay for more engine and more suspension than you really needed; now they've corrected it, now you can delete that performance and put the $4,300 to goodies instead. It's as simple as that.
BJ
For Central Florida, here are the typical 3 Series drivers:
E46: young apartment dwellers and/or modders. Mostly bought used for under $15k.
E90: The 06s, 07s and 08s are being driven by current college students who got them used. 09s and newer are older, upscale buyers/leasers.
F30: Older, upscale buyers/leasers. I don't see many of these, but they are almost always "no lines" when I do.
January 18, 2013, 10:47 am
January 18, 2013, 10:47 am
D fc
January 18, 2013, 10:58 am
January 18, 2013, 11:12 am
BJ
January 18, 2013, 11:54 am
January 18, 2013, 12:06 pm
Damn, my mind is going blank from reading all the tradeoffs. Get the car and options she wants. Hand the dealer cash and get it over with. Hey, a 73 year old mom, retired I assume, pays cash for her stuff. At her age and my age, financing is not an option.
January 18, 2013, 12:14 pm
January 18, 2013, 12:26 pm
January 18, 2013, 12:47 pm
I'm sorry you miss the old BJ 1.0 days. They're over. I'm just a guy with a car now.
BJ
January 18, 2013, 1:06 pm
The scary thing though is it was probably added because some dumb ass tried to and slammed into a wall because of it.
January 18, 2013, 1:19 pm
January 18, 2013, 3:30 pm
The scary thing though is it was probably added because some dumb ass tried to and slammed into a wall because of it.
Note the Bimmerfest logo on the rear bumper.
CA
January 18, 2013, 9:55 pm
Interesting discussion here.
Personally, I think BJ has pretty much hit the nail, dead on with his analysis of the 320i being positioned for the non-afficiado lessor.
It will be very interesting to watch the rollout of the F32/F33 and see if it follows suit with a 320i variant.
(My hope is that it does not. I am still mourning the loss the the NA IL6.)
January 18, 2013, 9:59 pm
Personally, I think BJ has pretty much hit the nail, dead on with his analysis of the 320i being positioned for the non-afficiado lessor.
It will be very interesting to watch the rollout of the F32/F33 and see if it follows suit with a 320i variant.
Next, please continue to feel free to tell BJ how right he is as I'm told it makes him feel good. BJ does not feel that the 4 Series will be taken downmarket at the very moment it's being taken upmarket, but you never know.
BJ
January 18, 2013, 10:15 pm
Next, please continue to feel free to tell BJ how right he is as I'm told it makes him feel good. BJ does not feel that the 4 Series will be taken downmarket at the very moment it's being taken upmarket, but you never know.
BJ
It will be interesting to see how the 320 does. The 1 Series, which theoretically took BMW down market does not seem to be selling very well. I probably see about 20 times more 7 Series than 1 Series. Actually the ratio may be higher than that. I think I see about 5 1 Series a year not counting the ones in the showroom when I take the car in for service.
CA
January 18, 2013, 11:07 pm
CA
As much as I cringe at the idea, I think the 320i 3 series will have better success as the "downgrade" especially in the US where a bigger bodied car is perceived as better. The overall size of the car along with the Roundel will be the selling points. The engine size and specs will be purely incidental. Mr. and Mrs. Joe Camry will finally be able ditch the Camry for a BMW and radiate with the afterglow emanating from the Roundel sparkling in the sunshine.
January 18, 2013, 11:51 pm
CA
Being a 2-door, very compact, very edgy (trying to be kind here) design it's not a downmarket car so much as it's a souped-up Mini. I think the combination of impracticality and fugly design turns off a lot of buyers, but those who buy the big engine likely find it exhilarating.
BJ
January 18, 2013, 11:58 pm
As much as I cringe at the idea, I think the 320i 3 series will have better success as the "downgrade" especially in the US where a bigger bodied car is perceived as better. The overall size of the car along with the Roundel will be the selling points. The engine size and specs will be purely incidental. Mr. and Mrs. Joe Camry will finally be able ditch the Camry for a BMW and radiate with the afterglow emanating from the Roundel sparkling in the sunshine.
You're new here, but I posted three configs the other day that sort of illustrate how BMW is finally allowing 3 Series buyers to trade horsepower for creature comforts. From memory, looks sort of like this:
The build that my mother passed on, too expensive for her:
328i Auto $42,645
Premium w/Leather
Heated Seats
PDC
The build that my mother would have taken if available:
320i Auto $38,595
Premium
Heated Seats
That's $4,100 less, a 10% savings, simply for trading off horsepower & leather.
Now, if she wanted to put that back into the car, get to that same $42,645 level as the 328i, her build would have looked like this:
320i Auto $42,595
Premium Package
Driver Assistance Package
Lighting Package
Navigation
BMW Assist
Enhanced Bluetooth & USB
Heated Seats
So, instead of running to Acura, she'd have had two choices:
1. Get a 320i with the same options, save $4,100
2. Get a 320i with extra options Driver Assistance Package, Lighting Package, Navigation, BMW Assist, Enhanced Bluetooth & USB for the same money.
And that's the entire point. As I said in the first post, it allows someone to either hit a $299 monthly payment practically stripped -or- to hit a $399 monthly payment fully loaded.
The 320i is a $4,300 Performance Delete Option that allows someone to trade off horsepower for gobs of goodies. It's a very smart move. Would have kept my mom from Acura, thousands of other moms too.
BJ
January 19, 2013, 12:30 am
Also drove a Cadillac CTS before the current 528 (was supposed to actually get a 328 but my mother thought the 5 series was too bloated so she gave it to me and we ordered her the F30 luxury line [just like BJ's])....Caddy had much more HP and torque than that 320 though.
BJ you should have seen all the chicks I picked up in HS and Ugrad in the Caddy.
January 19, 2013, 12:46 am
This is classic marketing, using a three-tier product structure to increase sales. There's a reason BMW has had the 3, 5, and 7 Series, Mercedes has had the C, E, and S Series, and Audi has had the A4, A6, and A8 Series. BMW's 2, 4, and 6 Series are now bringing the Goldilocks Rule to coupes.
January 19, 2013, 9:14 am
January 19, 2013, 10:32 am
i think the bottom line on this one is, especially with BMW, some people just want to be able to brag about their number or series being better than someone elses.
January 19, 2013, 10:47 am
Once someone realizes they can afford a BMW, it then boils down to how much you want to spend per month and whether the 5 or the 3 gives you what you need. I myself was expecting to move from my E90 into an F10 this past summer. Budgeted myself around $579 for the new ride. I didn't like what I had heard about the 328i becoming a four-cylinder car, and loved the look of the new 5.
But upon taking a test drive, I was surprised and shocked by what I had learned. The new 328i engine was a beast, and the 5 required i get a 35i and was way bigger than I needed. The slight growth in body dimensions on the 3 made it perfect for my family, and the lower base price meant I could add more options on a 328i as opposed to a stripped down 535i.
The typical non-luxury car observer wouldn't know the difference between the 3 and 5 if you put a gun to their head. The only people that know the differences are luxury car aficionados who now can tell that I am in a Luxury line 3 not a stripped 5. BMW's strategy seems to be very clear; offer the same car in several different sizes And let the customer decide what fits. No different than buying a new Armani suit.
BJ
January 19, 2013, 2:07 pm
The $38,595 320 is ~$439 a month.
The $42,645 328 is ~$486 a month
When you're already paying ~$17,000 to lease a car for three years, what is another $1,700 more? I just don't see it. Was it really worth BMW rolling in yet another model just to cut the lease price 10%?
Believe me, I understand that "badge whores" will be all over this...but really I can't see it putting a ton more sales in BMW portfolio. 180hp is not enough for this car. I have the same engine in my 528 and my mother has a 328 with the I4. In both cars it is barely enough with the added torque being the mitigating factor. This engine is going to suck, big time.
January 21, 2013, 10:21 am
It is just an entry level car that most people will get almost bare bone. People who want a modestly optioned 3 will get the 328 instead. Remember that a difference of $1K is big enough for majority of the auto buyers. Just IMHO.
January 21, 2013, 5:33 pm
Having it for dinner?
January 21, 2013, 9:31 pm
i can explain it right here:
bmw want to be able to capture people shopping for deals like that.
90% wont get past the price per month and the fact its a bmw for the price of an infiniti.
most people dont know or care about 4 cylinders vs 6, turbo vs non turbo, they want a nice car with a certain badge on the trunk to park in their driveway.
January 21, 2013, 9:52 pm
bmw want to be able to capture people shopping for deals like that.
90% wont get past the price per month and the fact its a bmw for the price of an infiniti.
most people dont know or care about 4 cylinders vs 6, turbo vs non turbo, they want a nice car with a certain badge on the trunk to park in their driveway.
January 21, 2013, 10:09 pm
bmw want to be able to capture people shopping for deals like that.
90% wont get past the price per month and the fact its a bmw for the price of an infiniti.
most people dont know or care about 4 cylinders vs 6, turbo vs non turbo, they want a nice car with a certain badge on the trunk to park in their driveway.
Infiniti could have made the deal appear even more attractive by quoting a monthly lease price of $25.00 (with an initial payment of $10.075.00
CA
January 21, 2013, 10:23 pm
Infiniti could have made the deal appear even more attractive by quoting a monthly lease price of $25.00 (with an initial payment of $10.075.00
CA
Well-equipped including features such as Premium Package (Leather, Moonroof, Comfort Access, Satellite Radio), Automatic Transmission, Power Seats, iPod/USB Adapter, Hands-free Bluetooth and Destination charges.
$369*/month for 36 months. $750 Loyalty Cash included in payment.
Vehicle Registered outside N.Y.
• $369 First months payment
• $2,750 Down payment
• $0 Security Deposit
• $725 Acquisition fee
• $3,844 Cash due at signing
Vehicle Registered in N.Y.
• $369 First months payment
• $2,750 Down payment
• $0 Security deposit
• $725 Acquisition fee
• $3,844 Cash due at signing
January 21, 2013, 11:18 pm
Once someone realizes they can afford a BMW, it then boils down to how much you want to spend per month and whether the 5 or the 3 gives you what you need. I myself was expecting to move from my E90 into an F10 this past summer. Budgeted myself around $579 for the new ride. I didn't like what I had heard about the 328i becoming a four-cylinder car, and loved the look of the new 5.
But upon taking a test drive, I was surprised and shocked by what I had learned. The new 328i engine was a beast, and the 5 required i get a 35i and was way bigger than I needed. The slight growth in body dimensions on the 3 made it perfect for my family, and the lower base price meant I could add more options on a 328i as opposed to a stripped down 535i.
The typical non-luxury car observer wouldn't know the difference between the 3 and 5 if you put a gun to their head. The only people that know the differences are luxury car aficionados who now can tell that I am in a Luxury line 3 not a stripped 5. BMW's strategy seems to be very clear; offer the same car in several different sizes And let the customer decide what fits. No different than buying a new Armani suit.
BJ
I tried this on at least a dozen people.
January 21, 2013, 11:22 pm
I tried this on at least a dozen people.
1. Three dimensional grille connecting to the headlights (on 3).
2. Lack of front fender turn signals (on 3).
3. Lower, angrier nose (on 3).
BJ
January 22, 2013, 1:13 am
I tried this on at least a dozen people.
My personal favorite is to look at the back of the car and see whether it says 335 or 535.
CA
January 22, 2013, 6:55 am
The $38,595 320 is ~$439 a month.
The $42,645 328 is ~$486 a month
When you're already paying ~$17,000 to lease a car for three years, what is another $1,700 more? I just don't see it. Was it really worth BMW rolling in yet another model just to cut the lease price 10%?
i love it when people make the "hey what is $X more gonna matter". well... what is another $1700 more.... its $1700!
exactly. thats exactly what $1700 is. now i wouldn't buy a 320i , i wanted m-sport , i wanted a little more power whatever. but people said the same thing about buying a 328i vs a 335. "why not get the 335i for $4000 more" or whatever. well, because i'd have $4000 left.
i mean the 320i is just another option and for some people itll be the right option. a lot of people buy the 3 series because its a good car. it has good electronics, they like the design, they are a badge whore and like how having a BMW makes them feel about themselves no matter how misguided that is. as far as i've seen the vast vast majority of F30s i've seen have 17: rims. so i'd assume the vast majority of people do not care if they have a "line" like sport/lux/modern. if people just want to pay a little more to get a 320i over say an accord i-4 EX-L then they get those buyers. i mean in the end the cost difference is something like $6k and you get free maintenance and you get RWD. hell if it was all i could spend i'd probably do it too.
i mean if your goal was getting a car witht he latest technology, you wanted it to be reasonably fast (And 0-60 in 7 seconds is pretty fast , its faster than a lot of cars) and you did not care if you got anything more than this, then might as well save your $1700 right.
January 22, 2013, 4:38 pm
From what I read the 320 is on the cutting edge of technology and can be extremely efficient if the driver wants it to be. It will probably be popular with early adopters, but traditional BMW buyers who want a more traditional BMW propulsion system will probably go for the 328. Although the 320 is more advanced, BMW probably does not feel that buyers would accept paying more for it than for a 328. If I'm wrong I will happily defer to someone who knows more about the subject.
January 22, 2013, 10:12 pm
RL - I think it can be summed upped with this...Gen Y.
This is the next big market for car makers and they want to get this demographic into the fold as soon and easily as possible. This group likes nice things, but seem to be more "cost conscious" due to coming of age/money in less stable economic times. All car makers are targeting this market, including the lux's of MB, Audi, Acura, Caddy and now BMW. Nothing yet from Lexus, Infiniti, Volvo, but I'm sure they are eyeing it up seriously. There are about 76million people in this "Millennial Generation"...that's huge and they'll need something to make up for the Boomer's...uh, moving on, let's say.
That said, BMW has done the easiest (and smartest) thing to do to jump into this fold immediately, especially after the CLA, upcoming A3 4 door (or whatever), ILX, ATS, etc. They've immediately "created" an entry level car, priced competitively, with NO wait time, minimal to no re-engineering costs, and...a 4 door. Something lacking in the 1 Series line. This makes complete sense.
Also, let's say you are right on your approximate "only" $50 difference via lease, so why bother. Either way, BMW can make out with a sale. You can have buyer's go either direction and it doesn't hurt BMW or the buyer. You could have one buyer come in and balk at paying another $50 for various reasons or doesn't fit their budget, so they get the 320. Likewise, you could have the next buyer come in and go, wow, only another $50 bucks and I can just go with the 328. With that thinking, I bet they also add a few more options and maybe push the difference up a tad more. Either way, BMW wins and it gets entry level lux buyers in the showroom. Those that thought they maybe could never afford a BMW.
Bottom line, I think this is a smart move by BMW. When my dealership gets a 320 sport, I'll be checking it out in a heartbeat...and I have a 335. If BMW can bring 80-85% of what I already have in a less expensive, more fun package, I'm game. I don't need leather or all the bells and whistles, just a fun driving experience and the 320 sport could do just that...with a $500 "chip", of course. Ha.
January 22, 2013, 10:44 pm
January 22, 2013, 10:59 pm
Shpeak up, shunny.
BJ
January 22, 2013, 11:48 pm
Shpeak up, shunny.
BJ
January 23, 2013, 8:51 am
As for BJ, honestly already thought he was a grandpa...he's driving around in the "luxury" version of the 3series...328 at that. Plus, he has the platinum visa...those only go to seniors I'm told.
January 23, 2013, 9:02 am
It seems to me that those that cannot make sense of the 320i are forgetting the days of the Value Package (leather, wheels, USB for free) E90 328i for about $34,000 - or even less after (the now common for BMW) trunk money. It is understandable... that was so 18 months ago.
Or the days of the 2006 325i with all its 200hp for about $31,000 back in the day.
All that matters is that BMW is back in the entry-level luxury segment with the X1 and this 320i. And they will go even deeper with the 1- and 2-Series.
The 328i is no longer that car. This is simple.
January 23, 2013, 9:19 am
As for BJ, honestly already thought he was a grandpa...he's driving around in the "luxury" version of the 3series...328 at that. Plus, he has the platinum visa...those only go to seniors I'm told.
The Luxury line is the best looking of the F30's. That cannot be argued. That's why I drive it.
BJ
January 23, 2013, 10:15 pm
The Luxury line is the best looking of the F30's. That cannot be argued. That's why I drive it.
BJ
If you're ever driving Rt 1 and Alexander Rd, honk, I'll look for "the best looking of the F30's" and wave.
January 23, 2013, 10:22 pm
BJ
January 23, 2013, 10:50 pm
BJ,
After taking delivery of my estoril blue beauty, I've officially decided that the Msport line is the front end and rear bumper that all F30s should have.
The Luxury line is the best looking of the F30's. That cannot be argued. That's why I drive it.
BJ
January 23, 2013, 11:11 pm
After taking delivery of my estoril blue beauty, I've officially decided that the Msport line is the front end and rear bumper that all F30s should have.
You are where I was with the E90 a few years back. The E90 had a feminine front end and needed that M-Sport toughness to make the car look aggressive.
Flash forward to today, different story.
The F30 has a new, mean, low-slung, menacing look. The F30 M-Sport looks like the E90 LCI with it's swoopy-jaw that runs from under the headlights and down to the lower air intake. Additionally, the F30 M-Sport is a near-clone of the E90 M-Sport especially by the lower fascia with identical intakes and lower grill, the same open-mouth-smile face too. Take a look at the top left and bottom right images, jump back and forth, you'll see what I mean.
- The F30 M-Sport isn't necessary because the F30 looks aggressive enough already, solves the problem that the feminine E90 had.
- The F30 M-Sport looks so close to a mix of the E90 LCI and the E90 M-Sport that it doesn't look like a new car; it looks like the old car.
BJ
January 23, 2013, 11:26 pm
I had to tease BJ a little. I agree. All the F30 front ends are awesome. The M sport front end is new to me. This is my first BMW. It funny. a lot of people say they don't like how the grill sticks out and the front hood line. That is what I like best! I liked it so much, I left Audi for my F30. That and the extra horsepower. Also, the amazing 8sp auto transmission. Even though I ended up getting the manual. It pissed me off that if I did want an automatic transmission in an A4, I'd have to get the "prestige trim" to get the Audi 8 speed auto. About $48k? What a joke. Especially for a car that still has 205hp.
You are where I was with the E90 a few years back. The E90 had a feminine front end and needed that M-Sport toughness to make the car look aggressive.
Flash forward to today, different story.
The F30 has a new, mean, low-slung, menacing look. The F30 M-Sport looks like the E90 LCI with it's swoopy-jaw that runs from under the headlights and down to the lower air intake. Additionally, the F30 M-Sport is a near-clone of the E90 M-Sport especially by the lower fascia with identical intakes and lower grill, the same open-mouth-smile face too. Take a look at the top left and bottom right images, jump back and forth, you'll see what I mean.
- The F30 M-Sport isn't necessary because the F30 looks aggressive enough already, solves the problem that the feminine E90 had.
- The F30 M-Sport looks so close to a mix of the E90 LCI and the E90 M-Sport that it doesn't look like a new car; it looks like the old car.
BJ
January 24, 2013, 12:47 am
After taking delivery of my estoril blue beauty, I've officially decided that the Msport line is the front end and rear bumper that all F30s should have.
January 24, 2013, 7:39 am
However, I will add the M steering wheel at some point.
January 24, 2013, 2:06 pm
On another note, the M-sport front bumper is 1000% better than the standard one. I cannot stand the flat section under the kidney grills in the regular front bumper. It looks so unfinished. If I ordered a 320i, I would swap front ends with the M-sport right away.
January 25, 2013, 4:33 pm
Back to the original point of this thread, I am someone who is now looking at BMWs because of the 320i introduction. After attending the Detroit Auto Show, it is at the top of my next car list.
I currently drive a G37 6MT sedan, and I was greatly disappointed to find out the 2014 Q50 replacement will not be available with a 6MT at launch, nor will it offer a turbo 4 cylinder.
As I get older, I am less focused on horsepower and am willing to trade off handling, refinement, and fuel economy. I am the border of Gen X/Gen Y, so I guess I am the target demographic. Once this thing hits the lot I am all over it.
January 27, 2013, 6:32 pm
Just a thought. All the 3 series offer a great, balanced package. If you are driving a 330 horsepower G37 right now, I'd seriously consider a 328i. Think of it as an upgraded 320i that has much more horsepower and standard features. I suppose the same could be said for the 335i compared to the 328i. For me, the happy medium was a 328i. You will not miss the crushing speed of your G37 in one. You may in the 320i.
January 27, 2013, 8:41 pm
On another note, the M-sport front bumper is 1000% better than the standard one. I cannot stand the flat section under the kidney grills in the regular front bumper. It looks so unfinished. If I ordered a 320i, I would swap front ends with the M-sport right away.
January 27, 2013, 8:48 pm
I currently drive a G37 6MT sedan, and I was greatly disappointed to find out the 2014 Q50 replacement will not be available with a 6MT at launch, nor will it offer a turbo 4 cylinder.
As I get older, I am less focused on horsepower and am willing to trade off handling, refinement, and fuel economy. I am the border of Gen X/Gen Y, so I guess I am the target demographic. Once this thing hits the lot I am all over it.
It's a great car, and the fact that BMW is opening it up to those who want to do exactly as you say is a good thing.
Trade off the horses for the goodies, get into a BMW for the price of an Acura TL, it's all good.
BJ
January 28, 2013, 12:05 pm
The 328 is also in my sights, but the MF on BMW leases are a bit high to justify the extra $100 for monthly payment. Every time I lease a new vehicle, I always compare the usual suspects (G37, 3 series, A4) and Infiniti always had the best lease rates for similar MSRP.
Honestly, I'm sure the 320 will have same engine output as the A4, which is OK by me.
January 30, 2013, 1:19 pm
I thought the purpose of the 320 was to generate threads on Bimmerfest about how the 320 is almost as fast as the 328i and a better deal and and more appropriate for the car and...etc. (Feel free to replace 320 references with 328i and 328i with 335i). Threads will begin shortly...stay tuned.
February 1, 2013, 2:30 am
February 1, 2013, 9:09 am
February 1, 2013, 1:47 pm
February 1, 2013, 2:44 pm
February 1, 2013, 4:07 pm
Btwy, while journalists like to talk about the perfect weight distribution, it is worth noting that doesn't translate in ideal polar moment of inertia. One involves integrating lengths while the other requires integrating squares of lengths. All these cars are still inherently more prone to understeer, although obviously some more than others.
What you are referring to is indeed rather subjective and a strong function of what one is used to. Most traditional racers always prefer RWD over AWD, because that is what they are used to and because it is easier to loosen and control the rear end. There was a video on this forum a long time ago about a pro racer driving an AWD 911 and the 2WD counterpart on a tight indoor course. The AWD went faster, but he preferred the feel of the RWD. My guess is that it had a lot to do with what he was used to. It is a very subjective thing. But I do know what you are talking about.
Btwy, I don't see in the C&D review the paraphrase you are referring to. And it is worth noting that although Audi suck some summer tires on that car, it is not a sport pack A4 (steering has four spokes).
February 4, 2013, 11:15 am
Btwy, while journalists like to talk about the perfect weight distribution, it is worth noting that doesn't translate in ideal polar moment of inertia. One involves integrating lengths while the other requires integrating squares of lengths. All these cars are still inherently more prone to understeer, although obviously some more than others.
What you are referring to is indeed rather subjective and a strong function of what one is used to. Most traditional racers always prefer RWD over AWD, because that is what they are used to and because it is easier to loosen and control the rear end. There was a video on this forum a long time ago about a pro racer driving an AWD 911 and the 2WD counterpart on a tight indoor course. The AWD went faster, but he preferred the feel of the RWD. My guess is that it had a lot to do with what he was used to. It is a very subjective thing. But I do know what you are talking about.
Btwy, I don't see in the C&D review the paraphrase you are referring to. And it is worth noting that although Audi suck some summer tires on that car, it is not a sport pack A4 (steering has four spokes).
Here is the phrase from the CD omparo: "Throw the A4 into a corner, and the front end plows delicately and predictably. It’s not the most joyous way around a bend, but it is repeatable and secure and requires very *little skill."
Here's what they say about the 328i handling: "The brand’s obsession with even weight distribution pays handling dividends. Front and rear tires seem to work equally hard. The new 3 most closely resembles the previous car in its balanced feel and nearly neutral handling."
February 4, 2013, 5:38 pm
Well, it will all come down to a back to back test drive of the 320 to the A4. The butt dyno never lies. If the 320 feels fast enough for me compared to the A4, then I'm sold.
February 4, 2013, 9:46 pm
Btwy, most sports cars have a weight distribution that is closer to 40-45%F and 55-60%R. What does that say about "ideal" 50%/50% weight distribution?
February 5, 2013, 1:05 am
Its predictable. You know exactly how long it'll grip and exactly when it will start plowing on a corner. It is easy to drive to its max but no fun and in a corner it is setup to plow and understeer since that is what people are used to coming from cheaper cars.
Best I can say about Audi is its stable and feels really solid in rain. My 328i loses grip in the dry sometimes even but at least I'm having fun in it. Its a totally different type of car. Much more for people who want super balanced handling on a corner. Might be scary for some but I'll take it every day. BMW not only loves rwd but they make it neutral unlike say a Mercedes or a Lexus and I applaud that.
Maybe having awd or fwd could get you a faster slalom time .... civic sis get great slalom times after all. But you don't drive slalom time. You drive a car. A gtr probably destroys a 911 gt2 on most courses but I'd take the 911 because its more fun.
February 5, 2013, 1:48 pm
Btwy, most sports cars have a weight distribution that is closer to 40-45%F and 55-60%R. What does that say about "ideal" 50%/50% weight distribution?
Regarding weight distribution, it all depends on engine location. Of course a mid-engine sports car is going to have a slight rearward bias. However, there is absolutely no doubt that in spirited driving of a sport sedan, it's better to have more weight toward the center of the car than at each end.
February 5, 2013, 6:10 pm
Btwy, most sports cars have a weight distribution that is closer to 40-45%F and 55-60%R. What does that say about "ideal" 50%/50% weight distribution?
Most sports cars have more wight at the rear because it is EXPECTED to have some skill to drive them. It has something to do with pendulum-like forces that are very favorable to driving through corners until you reach snap-oversteer in which all of us here (no exceptions, yourself included) are basically deer in the headlights.
That's why 50-50 is very favorable for a sporty car to be used in everyday driving by everyday drivers.
Happy?
February 9, 2013, 5:27 pm
I've been cross-shopping the 328i sedan with an X-1 Sdrive28. While they are vastly different vehicles, the X-1 retains traditional BMW characteristics with a roughly $7K price differential as similarly equipped.
Along comes the 320i to pique my interest for the 15 minutes spent configuring. BMW successfully mitigated downmarket poaching from the 328i for the aficionado. No interior color options save for black/tan, and the derated engine has no offset MPG gain. Pass!
Their target audience is abundantly clear, time will reveal whether it was a successful gambit.
February 12, 2013, 3:48 am
Most sports cars have more wight at the rear because it is EXPECTED to have some skill to drive them. It has something to do with pendulum-like forces that are very favorable to driving through corners until you reach snap-oversteer in which all of us here (no exceptions, yourself included) are basically deer in the headlights.