Will the 2014 Lexus IS doom the F30 3er?!

by Bimmerfest.com Member - tturedraider on January 17, 2013, 2:01 am
2014 Lexus IS

OK, I just chose that title to stir up trouble.

Just watched video of it being introduced at the NAIAS and had to post....OMG that thing is absolutely butt ugly!! Seriously. What in the world is Lexus thinking?!



Here's the video. It wasn't the photos that I first saw. It was the car in motion in this video. The proportions are just horrible.


Leave a Comment

You must be a registered member to comment on stories. Please take a moment to register for your free account now. If you already have an account, log in using fields below.










195 responses to Will the 2014 Lexus IS doom the F30 3er?!

-=Hot|Ice=- commented:
January 17, 2013, 2:01 am

You made a funny.
Reedo302 commented:
January 17, 2013, 2:49 am

I actually kinda like the way it looks. The unfortunate reality though is that they have once again managed to disappoint. Lexuses look good and by looking at them you'd think they'd be fun to drive. Get in and it's like riding in an elevator. BORING.
DavidM1975 commented:
January 17, 2013, 3:00 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
OMG that thing is absolutely butt ugly!! Seriously. What in the world is Lexus thinking?!
+100! Exactly my thoughts when I saw it for the first time!
Red Lined commented:
January 17, 2013, 3:26 am

Chris90 commented:
January 17, 2013, 3:52 am

Japan used to make good looking cars, what happened?
Ronin951 commented:
January 17, 2013, 4:37 am

Dear Lexus,
The photoshop smudge tool isn't for designing taillights. Also, Audi called and wants their grill back.
Cy3 commented:
January 17, 2013, 5:29 am

Lexus is grasping for an identity with the advances at BMW, Merc, & Audi...even Infiniti is stepping it up.
3284me commented:
January 17, 2013, 5:31 am

I pray that BMW will never adopt this whale mouth vacuum cleaner grill design. It is absolutely hideous.
johnofcross commented:
January 17, 2013, 6:38 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Lined View Post
Exactly
krash commented:
January 17, 2013, 7:14 am

That's a 1000x uglier than an ATS. Oooops, why did I bring that up?

EDIT: where did that red frown come from? Stupid iPad.
krash commented:
January 17, 2013, 8:01 am

Lexus has a real bad identity crisis.

Through the years; Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porshe have always managed to maintain a signature look.

Lexus, even though they make great cars, has always blended in with the generic look of Asian imports: Toyota, Nissan, Mazda...

This is their attempt at coming up with a signature look. Terrible!
boltjaM3s commented:
January 17, 2013, 8:11 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by krash View Post
That's a 1000x uglier than an ATS. Oooops, why did I bring that up?

EDIT: where did that red frown come from? Stupid iPad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
OK, I just chose that title to stir up trouble.

Just watched video of it being introduced at the NAIAS and had to post....OMG that thing is absolutely butt ugly!! Seriously. What in the world is Lexus thinking?!
They wanted to make sure that Cadillac didn't finish dead last in the 2014 North American Ugliest Car Of The Year award.

BJ
Slick Willy commented:
January 17, 2013, 8:14 am

I think the back end actually looks great...I like how the 'swoop' ties into the side

The front...yeeesh....it will be one of the few cars that actually looks better with a license plate to break up the huge predator grill. Way too Batmobile for this 44 year old.

Color will be important too....black will look far better than white as the grill wont be so pronounced. The gray in the pics already looks twice as nice as the white.

Coming from an '08 IS 350 - which I loved.

The new interior looks fantastic! Way different than German/European...but that has always been the case with Japanese cars. LOVE the LCD gauges....love the shifter....love the center stack and console.

I have zero regrets going from IS to 335 IX....but the IS is a very good car.
krash commented:
January 17, 2013, 8:17 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Willy View Post
I think the back end actually looks great...I like how the 'swoop' ties into the side

The front...yeeesh....it will be one of the few cars that actually looks better with a license plate to break up the huge predator grill. .
Yes, I was thinking the same thing. The side and rear profiles aren't really that bad, but the front is just horrible.
chris328 commented:
January 17, 2013, 8:20 am

a retarded audi
boltjaM3s commented:
January 17, 2013, 8:40 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by krash View Post
Yes, I was thinking the same thing.... but the front is just horrible.


BJ
pilotman commented:
January 17, 2013, 9:25 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
I actually kinda like the way it looks. The unfortunate reality though is that they have once again managed to disappoint. Lexuses look good and by looking at them you'd think they'd be fun to drive. Get in and it's like riding in an elevator. BORING.
Lexus engineers claim they have engineered this car from the ground up for better handling and performance, and it does seem they have been having some success in this regard.

For example, many, many reviewers agree that the Lexus GS is a very worthy competitor to the current 5 series, with equal or better handling, but much better reliability.

Not sure how you can pan this car when you haven't driven it....

I agree the front end on the F-sport is pretty ugly, the non-f sport model is fine.

But the interior, especially the quality of materials, is head and shoulders above the current three series (I just sat in both yesterday at Detroit Auto show, press preview).

Plus, this car will be much more reliable than its German counterparts.

Probably won't out handle the F30, but is much, much closer, as is the new Infiniti, and the new Cadillacs, and likely new products from Acura as well.

BMW has its hands full, and again many have said it has slipped a bit, especially with the current 5 series....

And Audi sales are going gangbusters....

So my point is, this competition is good for all of us....because the days of Lexus building cars for 70 year olds is changing.

If you haven't driven the new GS, try it....you might not like the styling, but every single review I've read pits it very favorably against the 5 series.

The same may be true with this IS...and we know that the CTS and ATS, even if you don't like their styling, have proven to be reliable, good handling and economical choices to the 3 series, whereas in the past they were a joke.

Things are changing....give Lexus a bit of credit....the new IS is much better than you may think.

Same goes for the new Infiniti.....the are struggling with brand identity, true, but if they hit a home run on a design, and offer it cheaper and more reliably, which they can do better than BMW.....BMW could be in real trouble.

They are getting pressure from all angles, including Audi, the Asians, etc.

I'll bet MB even steals some entry level buyers with its new CLA, although that's FWD.
LegendsNeverDie commented:
January 17, 2013, 9:27 am

The new IS is not my cup of tea. The ATS on the other hand looks fantastic.
The X Men commented:
January 17, 2013, 9:40 am

Lexus is going down a slippery here with their new cooperate front end. It sort of remind of the same stubbornness that Acura had with their ugly grille. Buyers need to vote with their wallet, thats the only way Lexus will listen. The new GS, ES and now the IS are some of the uglist new design on the market and this is coming from a once loyal Lexus owner.
CE750Jockey commented:
January 17, 2013, 9:48 am

Here we go yet again. The latest "3 Killer". Only this one is uglier than all the previous pretenders. Somebody wake me up when the next-in-line-to-the-throne comes up. The only legitimate competition to the 3er is the Audi. And they've come up short, thus far.
captainaudio commented:
January 17, 2013, 10:02 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by krash View Post
Lexus has a real bad identity crisis.

Through the years; Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porshe have always managed to maintain a signature look.

Lexus, even though they make great cars, has always blended in with the generic look of Asian imports: Toyota, Nissan, Mazda...

This is their attempt at coming up with a signature look. Terrible!
When Lexus first entered the market they made decent looking cars,


The LS400 was somewhat generic and had obviously been influenced by Mercedes but was not what I would consider ugly.



IMO the SC Coupe, which was introduced in 1992, was the best looking car Lexus ever made (I am probably biased because I had one exactly like the one in the picture above). That car felt like it had been carved out of a solid block of steel and was a pleasure to drive. It had a very smooth inline 6 engine, a 5 Speed manual transmission and a suspension that had a great balance between comfort and handling,

But that was then and now is now and Lexus is not making anything that appeals to me.

CA
JoeFromPA commented:
January 17, 2013, 10:15 am

I found the currrent IS (now fairly aged) to have the best interior in class in terms of driver's seat luxury, sportiness, and functionality on top of quality of materials. BMW took a nice step down on quality of materials in class with the f30 IMHO. The reason I never took a serious look at the IS was the joke of the backseat and the lack of a manual transmission.

Nonetheless, Lexus' 3.6 liter was always cream of the crop for n/a engines. Guess we'll see what they do here.

I find the exterior to be decent. I used to think the f30 front and rear ends were ugly; now I like the front and ignore the rear. I used to think the e60 was ugly. I used to think the "then new" Audi grill to be ugly on the a4 and a6. The new mercedes e-class front end? Used to be ugly to me...

I could go on. My point is simply that I no longer take my own initial reaction as something that's going to hold up.
pilotman commented:
January 17, 2013, 10:17 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by CE750Jockey View Post
Here we go yet again. The latest "3 Killer". Only this one is uglier than all the previous pretenders. Somebody wake me up when the next-in-line-to-the-throne comes up. The only legitimate competition to the 3er is the Audi. And they've come up short, thus far.
who is calling this the latest 3 killer?

I think that Lexus caters to a different buyer than BMW.....

If you check both sides of the coin, a lot of the people on the Lexus forum like the new IS, and almost everyone on the BMW forum hates the new IS, and Lexus in general.

In fact, most here have no interest in Lexus, Acura and Infiniti, and vice versa.

I like Lexus because of their stellar reliability, and I have had some problems with every one of the four BMWs I have had....same goes for Acura and Infiniti....

And even Cadillac.

There is no point to these discussions, most of you would be very very hard pressed to ever consider a Lexus/Acura/Infiniti, Cadillac, etc...

Just keep buying the BMWs, if that is what makes you happy. Nothing wrong with that, to each his own.

BMW customers just don't like the Asian counterparts....(but it is amusing to me how many of you seem to have a Toyota, Honda, Nissan etc. as a second car, kid hauler, minivan, SUV etc etc...)

You like the reliability when it favors you, but not in the luxury segment I guess.
boltjaM3s commented:
January 17, 2013, 10:19 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by CE750Jockey View Post
Here we go yet again. The latest "3 Killer". Only this one is uglier than all the previous pretenders. Somebody wake me up when the next-in-line-to-the-throne comes up. The only legitimate competition to the 3er is the Audi. And they've come up short, thus far.
It's like playing in the AFC East, isn't it? Swat away the Bills and Dolphins (yawn) another 13 win season.

I'm not sure why so many E46 and E90 owners want to see the F30 fail so badly. It makes no sense.

BJ
chasfh commented:
January 17, 2013, 10:27 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
When Lexus first entered the market they made decent looking cars,

This is a decent-looking car? Compared to today's cars, the styling is positively ancient.
mr_clueless commented:
January 17, 2013, 10:31 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
OK, I just chose that title to stir up trouble.

Just watched video of it being introduced at the NAIAS and had to post....OMG that thing is absolutely butt ugly!! Seriously. What in the world is Lexus thinking?!
The engines are the same old ones, so I don't see how they would be able to do any damage to the 3.
captainaudio commented:
January 17, 2013, 10:41 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by chasfh View Post
This is a decent-looking car? Compared to today's cars, the styling is positively ancient.
That car is 22 years old.

Here are a BMW and a Mercedes from the same era.

And in that era Lexus was a force to be reckoned with.
The brand was introduced in 1990 and within a few years Lexus was the best selling luxury brand, a position that it held for years.
Lexus was also constantly at the top of the JD Powers reliability list.




The X Men commented:
January 17, 2013, 10:52 am

The early Lexus were build like a tank, much like the early Mercedes and the current BMW 5 and 7 series. The quality of Lexus have really gone down hill recently. There lastest Lexus models feels like its made of tin and they are full of rattles, I guess that is a by-product of a aggressive cost cutting program.
tturedraider commented:
January 17, 2013, 10:54 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=4U-RmPY-xFU

Here's the video. It wasn't the photos that I first saw. It was the car in motion in this video. The proportions are just horrible.
trinipirate commented:
January 17, 2013, 10:57 am

I'd rather buy this than the ATS. In any event, the F30 looks like it will continue to reign supreme in its generation.
pilotman commented:
January 17, 2013, 11:05 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
The early Lexus were build like a tank, much like the early Mercedes and the current BMW 5 and 7 series. The quality of Lexus have really gone down hill recently. There lastest Lexus models feels like its made of tin and they are full of rattles, I guess that is a by-product of a aggressive cost cutting program.
Can you please post a link to your source that Lexus quality has gone downhill, they have aggressive cost cutting and are full of rattles?

I am not a big consumer reports fan, but pick whatever source you want, i.e. JD Power, True Delta, CR, etc. and show me where Lexus quality is in the toilet as you claim.

Here's an article from Oct, 2012....

******************************



And the winner is ... Japan.

Japanese brands took seven of the top 10 spots in Consumer Reports' annual reliability rankings, pushing aside their U.S. and European rivals. Toyota Motor Co.'s Scion, Lexus and Toyota brands took the top three spots and the Toyota Prius C, a subcompact hybrid, got the best overall score. Mazda, Subaru and Honda were close behind.

The rankings, released Monday, predict the reliability of 2013 model-year vehicles based on surveys of Consumer Reports' readers. This year, 800,000 people submitted information on 1.2 million vehicles from the 2010 to 2012 model years. The rankings are critical for auto companies, since Americans frequently cite Consumer Reports as a main source of car-buying advice.

Ford and Lincoln, once top performers, plummeted to the bottom of this year's rankings because of persistent problems with glitchy touch screens and bumpy transmissions. Ford was also hurt because three normally reliable models - the Ford Escape, Ford Fusion and Lincoln MKZ - are all new for 2013, so Consumer Reports couldn't predict their reliability.

Also near the bottom were Chrysler Group's Chrysler, Dodge and Ram brands, which have been getting a fast makeover since partnering with Italy's Fiat three years ago. Consumer Reports says models with more features and more powerful engines, like the V-8 versions of the Chrysler 300 and Jeep Grand Cherokee - had the most issues.

The best-performing U.S. brand was Cadillac, from General Motors Co.

Volkswagen AG's luxury Audi brand made the biggest strides in this year's survey, climbing 18 spots to No. 8. It was the best-performing European brand. Glitch-free new models like the A7 sedan got high marks from Jake Fisher, Consumer Reports' director of automotive testing.

"They're out-BMWing BMW, easily, in terms of the driving dynamics," he said.

Electric cars also got impressive results. The all-electric Nissan Leaf was Nissan's best performer, partly because its electric motor has fewer parts than a gasoline engine, Fisher said. But the Chevrolet Volt - an extended-range electric car that has both an electric system and a conventional engine and transmission - also got the highest score of any GM vehicle.

"GM took a lot of painstaking time to develop that car," Fisher said.

The Volt was recalled earlier this year because vehicles crash-tested by the government showed a risk of fire when coolant leaked from the battery. But Consumer Reports' rankings don't reflect that, since the magazine only asks respondents to note issues that have happened on their own vehicles. Only vehicles with 100 or more responses are included. Among 2012 models, the magazine got the most responses for the Honda CR-V, with nearly 3,000.

Fisher said the magazine is getting about the same number of complaints as it did five years ago. But issues with electronics, audio and touch-screen systems have increased while complaints about mechanical problems are down.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/toy...#ixzz2IFWT91kA
The X Men commented:
January 17, 2013, 11:14 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotman View Post
Can you please post a link to your source that Lexus quality has gone downhill, they have aggressive cost cutting and are full of rattles?

I am not a big consumer reports fan, but pick whatever source you want, i.e. JD Power, True Delta, CR, etc. and show me where Lexus quality is in the toilet as you claim.
Its my personal opinion, I have owned 4 Lexus since the early 90s. Problems like rattles and cheap feel do not show up in reliability surveys. If you ever owned a recent Lexus and a 20 year old one, you would know exactly what I am talking about.
tturedraider commented:
January 17, 2013, 11:18 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post

I find the exterior to be decent. I used to think the f30 front and rear ends were ugly; now I like the front and ignore the rear. I used to think the e60 was ugly. I used to think the "then new" Audi grill to be ugly on the a4 and a6. The new mercedes e-class front end? Used to be ugly to me...

I could go on. My point is simply that I no longer take my own initial reaction as something that's going to hold up.
Well, for me I like the current IS design pretty well. When I did the BMW Olympic 3 Series drive back in August I actually preferred to IS250 over the Merc C250 and the Audi A4. Its engine and transmission felt well matched, like they got along together. Unlike the powertrains in the Merc and Audi, which felt like they'd rather not have to be working together.

I've liked the F30 design from the beginning and I still do. I always liked the E60 exterior design, but I do not like the pre-LCI E60 interior. The LCI interior update made all the difference in the E60. I still think the current Audi front end treatment is butt ugly after however many years it's been. I think the entire Merc E Class exterior design is ugly. The previous Merc E Class was quite beautiful. I thought the current 7er kidney grill was too big the first time I saw it and I still do.

For me, my initial impressions don't generally change much.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotman View Post
who is calling this the latest 3 killer?

I think that Lexus caters to a different buyer than BMW.....

If you check both sides of the coin, a lot of the people on the Lexus forum like the new IS, and almost everyone on the BMW forum hates the new IS, and Lexus in general.

In fact, most here have no interest in Lexus, Acura and Infiniti, and vice versa.

I like Lexus because of their stellar reliability, and I have had some problems with every one of the four BMWs I have had....same goes for Acura and Infiniti....

And even Cadillac.

There is no point to these discussions, most of you would be very very hard pressed to ever consider a Lexus/Acura/Infiniti, Cadillac, etc...

Just keep buying the BMWs, if that is what makes you happy. Nothing wrong with that, to each his own.

BMW customers just don't like the Asian counterparts....(but it is amusing to me how many of you seem to have a Toyota, Honda, Nissan etc. as a second car, kid hauler, minivan, SUV etc etc...)

You like the reliability when it favors you, but not in the luxury segment I guess.
As I mention above, I actually preferred the IS over the Merc C and the Audi A4 when I did the BMW 3 Series comparison drive in August. In 2010, when I attended a BMW driving event for the new F10 5er I thought the Lexus GS350 was a significantly better performer than the new Merc E350, which was an absolute embarrassment to Mercedes.

I attended a Cadillac CTS-V Series driving event in October and found the CTS-V to be a great performer. It doesn't have the German feel that I prefer, but I would have to say it performs every bit as well as any ///M car I've driven.

I have a BMW bias, but I pretty much call 'em as I see 'em.
johnc_22 commented:
January 17, 2013, 11:18 am

As for rattles and cost cutting BMW is not innocent.
Carnook commented:
January 17, 2013, 11:20 am

I have a hard time believing that there is a large population who will be comparing the F30 and the IS. They are so radically different in personality that I can't see how someone who likes one would possibly like the other.
captainaudio commented:
January 17, 2013, 11:26 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Its my personal opinion, I have owned 4 Lexus since the early 90s. Problems like rattles and cheap feel do not show up in reliability surveys. If you ever owned a recent Lexus and a 20 year old one, you would know exactly what I am talking about.
The Lexus SC coupe that I had was rated at the top of the JD Powers list of reliable cars. It was also near the top of the Consumer Reports reliably list. My present 335i is listed as unreliable by CU,

From my experience both cars have been very reliable. The 335i is as quiet as the Lexus was and in spite of being a convertible that has gotten beat up on NYC roads is rattle free.

I will leave the fact that the RFTs and the stock sport suspension sucked out of this conversation since I was able to rectify that issue. The fact that the car has remained rattle free in spite of the number of Pothole Explosions it endured does speak to the fact that the car is very solidly built.

CA
dtc100 commented:
January 17, 2013, 11:32 am

So what does the non-F look like?
johnc_22 commented:
January 17, 2013, 11:34 am

My 335i was fairly reliable but the N54 is a problematic engine. Just had $3800 worth of extended warranty work done at 72K miles (wastegates, water pump, 2nd oil leak, and now after all of that work I have a very rough idle that I've not been back to the dealer to have checked). I want Japanese reliability but there's nothing out there that will drive like my E90.
dtc100 commented:
January 17, 2013, 11:53 am

Is this the non-f version?

moviebumm commented:
January 17, 2013, 12:57 pm

I think the 2014 lexus IS looks decent although similar to the current IS. The problem with the current IS much like most of the other Lexus models is that they do not drive well. I will have to reserve judgement until I drive a 2014 IS but when I decide the time is right to get a new car, the F30 however will be on the top of my list while the IS is at the bottom.
408Racer commented:
January 17, 2013, 12:59 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris328 View Post
a retarded audi
LOL...Bangle on acid, flame melts plastic.....





PK2348 commented:
January 17, 2013, 1:33 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotman View Post
Lexus engineers claim they have engineered this car from the ground up for better handling and performance, and it does seem they have been having some success in this regard.

For example, many, many reviewers agree that the Lexus GS is a very worthy competitor to the current 5 series, with equal or better handling, but much better reliability.

Not sure how you can pan this car when you haven't driven it....
I read a review on the new IS few weeks ago. Lexus let a number of reporters test drive it around the treck while the car was fully camouflaged. According to them, much stiffer and much better handling. Will need to test for myself. Looks are of secondary importance, most of the time we spend is inside the car, so we can't even see how it looks like. Handling is more important.
chris328 commented:
January 17, 2013, 1:34 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by 408Racer View Post
LOL...Bangle on acid, flame melts plastic.....





watch this, then look at the audi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzSRVgF501M

it will transform into the new IS.
boltjaM3s commented:
January 17, 2013, 1:40 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris328 View Post
watch this, then look at the audi

it will transform into the new IS.
That was the funniest discussion forum moment I've had in the past three years.

Bravo.

BJ
gekisai29 commented:
January 17, 2013, 1:51 pm

at least its different. to each his/her own
Carnook commented:
January 17, 2013, 1:53 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
The new IS is not my cup of tea. The ATS on the other hand looks fantastic.
I think your statement, although short, is very important.

Not all cars within a segment truly compete with each other. Consumers shopping in the "3" segment won't really consider all cars equally because they really aren't all the same even though they might be similar in size and price.

Cars have a design language and a personality and consumers typically identify with a particular design language and personality. Within the "3" segment I think the cars are grouped into sub-groups: 3 series, C class, A4 and ATS are close enough in design language and personality that consumers will cross shop them. Infiniti and Lexus are close enough to cross shop them. But how often will and Infiniti buyer seriously cross shop a 3 series, and vice versa? I think thats less common.

I guess what I'm saying is, Infiniti and Lexus are probably going to end up battling each other for a small piece of the "3" segment, while BMW, Audi, Merc and Cadillac will battle for the lion's share.
SilverX3 commented:
January 17, 2013, 2:03 pm

IS grill is freaken ugly
Chris90 commented:
January 17, 2013, 2:28 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotman View Post
Lexus engineers claim they have engineered this car from the ground up for better handling and performance, and it does seem they have been having some success in this regard.
Early previews of the car say that's mostly just Lexus marketing talk.
The X Men commented:
January 17, 2013, 2:39 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by moviebumm View Post
I think the 2014 lexus IS looks decent although similar to the current IS. The problem with the current IS much like most of the other Lexus models is that they do not drive well. I will have to reserve judgement until I drive a 2014 IS but when I decide the time is right to get a new car, the F30 however will be on the top of my list while the IS is at the bottom.
If the new IS hnaldes anything like the new GS, the F30 will have take a backseat to it.
408Racer commented:
January 17, 2013, 3:51 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
If the new IS hnaldes anything like the new GS, the F30 will have take a backseat to it.
Only when Munich's checks to Car and Driver start to bounce. Even then, the women in backseats of F30s will still be better looking.
Saintor commented:
January 17, 2013, 5:47 pm

Not that bad in non IS-F version. The interior looks "substantial".





krash commented:
January 17, 2013, 5:57 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Not that bad in non IS-F version. The interior looks "substantial".




Interior is very nice. To be honest, when I select a car, I never really hate other cars. I just happen to prefer what I bought (a 335). That doesn't mean I hate an Audi, Lexus, Infniti, Cadillac, etc. I appreciate all cars.
Reedo302 commented:
January 17, 2013, 6:10 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotman View Post

Not sure how you can pan this car when you haven't driven it....
Every Lexus I've driven to date has either been very boring, or has been lacking in some way when compared to other vehicles I've driven. BMWs, Maseratis, Mercs, Audis, etc. Lexus has always left me wanting for more when I've driven them.
BECAUSE OF THIS, Lexus is working from a hole that they need to climb out of. When a car company comes out with a new design or vehicle, I don't just wipe the slate clean. They have a lot to prove to get me in their corner.
jfox335i commented:
January 17, 2013, 7:44 pm

Front looks like the predator, from the back, the taillights make it look like a drag queen. And it probably won't be available with a manual. That's strike three, yerrrrrrrr out Lexus!!
1985mb commented:
January 18, 2013, 10:03 am

So it's not quite as hideous as the first photos that Lexus released
pilotman commented:
January 18, 2013, 1:27 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
Early previews of the car say that's mostly just Lexus marketing talk.
sources please?

The reviews I've read so far seem to to the contrary.
pilotman commented:
January 18, 2013, 1:29 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Its my personal opinion, I have owned 4 Lexus since the early 90s. Problems like rattles and cheap feel do not show up in reliability surveys. If you ever owned a recent Lexus and a 20 year old one, you would know exactly what I am talking about.
I have owned a few recent Lexus cars, a 2004 ES and a 2009 RX. Both passed 150k miles, nearly trouble free. Sold them for a very good price.

No major rattles to report on either.

Have a 2011 Toyota Highlander SUV for the wife, its been bulletproof for first 40k miles, not a single rattle....

don't get me wrong, i still prefer teh F30 to the new IS.

All I'm saying is that I think its premature to bash its handling when none of us have driven it. I sat in the one at the Auto show (press event) since I live in Detroit, and I preferred the interior over BMWs.

It is at least a move in the right direction for Lexus.

Bashing Lexus on reliability, well, I just don't understand that. That has not been my personal experience, and is contrary to every single report on reliability, whether it be JD Power, Consumer Reports, True Delta, etc.

This is borne out in resale value as well, if Lexus cars are filled with problems and rattles, why is their resale so high? Just doesn't make sense.

German cars still handle better, have better feel and designs that age more gracefully (except for the new Lexus GS, which seems to out perform the 5 series).
The X Men commented:
January 18, 2013, 2:27 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotman View Post
I have owned a few recent Lexus cars, a 2004 ES and a 2009 RX. Both passed 150k miles, nearly trouble free. Sold them for a very good price.
No major rattles to report on either.
Have a 2011 Toyota Highlander SUV for the wife, its been bulletproof for first 40k miles, not a single rattle....
don't get me wrong, i still prefer teh F30 to the new IS.
All I'm saying is that I think its premature to bash its handling when none of us have driven it. I sat in the one at the Auto show (press event) since I live in Detroit, and I preferred the interior over BMWs.
It is at least a move in the right direction for Lexus.
Bashing Lexus on reliability, well, I just don't understand that. That has not been my personal experience, and is contrary to every single report on reliability, whether it be JD Power, Consumer Reports, True Delta, etc.
This is borne out in resale value as well, if Lexus cars are filled with problems and rattles, why is their resale so high? Just doesn't make sense.
German cars still handle better, have better feel and designs that age more gracefully (except for the new Lexus GS, which seems to out perform the 5 series).
Have you ever compare your ES350 to a F10 535i? or compare your RX350 or your highlander to a X5? The German cars feels more solid compare to the current Japanese cars. That was not always the case, the early Lexus were built like a tank compare to today's Lexus.
I think I was one of the few people in here who said it was too early to bash the handling of the new IS and I also said if the IS is a better handling version of the new GS, it might out perform the F30.
I never bash on Lexus' reliability, all I said was the new Lexus does not feel solid. There are more complaints on the Lexus forums about rattles than BMW.
pilotman commented:
January 18, 2013, 3:19 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Have you ever compare your ES350 to a F10 535i? or compare your RX350 or your highlander to a X5? The German cars feels more solid compare to the current Japanese cars. That was not always the case, the early Lexus were built like a tank compare to today's Lexus.
I think I was one of the few people in here who said it was too early to bash the handling of the new IS and I also said if the IS is a better handling version of the new GS, it might out perform the F30.
I never bash on Lexus' reliability, all I said was the new Lexus does not feel solid. There are more complaints on the Lexus forums about rattles than BMW.
yes, i have had 4 BMWs in a row, usually a Toyota/Lexus product for my wife and BMW for myself.

I have never heard significant complaints from Lexus owners, including those relating to rattles.

Nor have I ever heard a Lexus referred to as rattle trap. Perhaps I'm missing that. Ours have been more rattle free than any other make.

I was really underwhelmed by my E90 328, and at 44k miles towards the end of the lease it had a bunch of rattles.

But the point isn't to compare reliability, but whether the IS is a worthy competitor.

It will NEVER be a worthy competitor to those on this forum, nor will a Mercedes, an Infiniti or an Acura.

Discussions like this are worthless, because they won't ever change someone's opinion. I like to try different brands, and like BMW, but have been getting a bit bored with them....and will try anything.

I am currently out of the BMW family, after 4 in a row, and honestly I don't want back in yet.

As Boltjames says, all threads about other cars, including the CTS, ATS, A4, Q50, IS should all be banned....people here only want to talk about how great BMWs are.
1985mb commented:
January 18, 2013, 3:20 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Have you ever compare your ES350 to a F10 535i? or compare your RX350 or your highlander to a X5?
Why would one do that? The BMWs in question are almost double the price of the Lexus' you suggest comparing to...
The X Men commented:
January 18, 2013, 5:10 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1985mb View Post
Why would one do that? The BMWs in question are almost double the price of the Lexus' you suggest comparing to...
The Lexus RX450h can top out at close to $60K.
Saintor commented:
January 18, 2013, 5:28 pm

I want to retract myself. Despite the better pics, I saw it in person and it is indeed very ugly.
captainaudio commented:
January 18, 2013, 5:34 pm

I don't think that a significant number of Lexus owners really wanted a BMW but "settled" for a Lexus because they couldn't afford a BMW.
For whatever reasons they preferred a Lexus to a BMW. That was certainly my situation in 1992 when I purchased a Lexus SC300 coupe. I crossed shopped BMW and Mercedes and preferred the Lexus. Cost was not an issue as all of the cars were similarly priced.

CA
SilverX3 commented:
January 18, 2013, 5:53 pm

the rear end of the new IS is beautiful

Just like JLo's rear end
captainaudio commented:
January 18, 2013, 6:00 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverX3 View Post
the rear end of the new IS is beautiful

Just like JLo's rear end
Perhaps Lexus can use that in an advertising campaign.

"The new IS, just like JLo, big rear end - small talent!"

CA
SilverX3 commented:
January 18, 2013, 6:10 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
Perhaps Lexus can use that in an advertising campaign.

"The new IS, just like JLo, big rear end - small talent!"

CA
I like that
You should be working for ad agencies
sayzar commented:
January 18, 2013, 6:26 pm


Dude Lexus is Toyota PLUS its a ugly looking car, Stick with the 3 series
Elk commented:
January 18, 2013, 6:39 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Problems like rattles and cheap feel do not show up in reliability surveys.
Actually, they do - both in short term, initial impression surveys and long-term. Interior and body integrity is included.

Quote:
The German cars feels more solid compare to the current Japanese cars.
Hmm...

My F30 has been in twice already for rattles and buzzes. My modest Subaru has never rattled or buzzed.
captainaudio commented:
January 18, 2013, 6:48 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
Actually, they do - both in short term, initial impression surveys and long-term. Interior and body integrity is included.


Hmm...

My F30 has been in twice already for rattles and buzzes. My modest Subaru has never rattled or buzzed.
My 335i had a very annoying rattle in the dashboard when I bought it. I was totally disgusted since I had a Lexus for 15 years and 130,000 miles that was totally rattle free. After about a week the rattle disappeared and has never returned. Since then the car has been very quiet and rattle free. I have no issues with the build quality of the 335i but quite frankly it does not have the refinement or bank vault, carved from a solid block of steel, feel that the Lexus had.

CA
sr5959 commented:
January 18, 2013, 8:03 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
I want to retract myself. Despite the better pics, I saw it in person and it is indeed very ugly.
That's a shame, I was starting to think it looks pretty good after hating it initially (pics only not seen it in person). I do like the interior.
sr5959 commented:
January 18, 2013, 8:05 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
Actually, they do - both in short term, initial impression surveys and long-term. Interior and body integrity is included.


Hmm...

My F30 has been in twice already for rattles and buzzes. My modest Subaru has never rattled or buzzed.
I've had my F30 11 months no rattles at all.
SilverX3 commented:
January 18, 2013, 8:09 pm

this is nice from the rear... if the car is fast then this what F30 drivers will see....

bayoucity commented:
January 18, 2013, 8:15 pm

Lexus is a rebadged Toyota.

There, fix it for CA.
captainaudio commented:
January 18, 2013, 9:35 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
Lexus is a rebadged Toyota.

There, fix it for CA.
What the hell took you so long?

I figured that would have been the second or third post.

CA
Elk commented:
January 18, 2013, 10:51 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by sr5959 View Post
I've had my F30 11 months no rattles at all.
There are always a few good ones.
BlackDog316 commented:
January 18, 2013, 11:36 pm

I have owned four BMW's. A 2002 ti that I had to put in a Weber two barrel carb to get some power, but it handled great, a 320i, a 733i, and now a 328i. We also have a 2011 Lexus ES350 which is smooth, reliable, and a horse on long trips, with good gas mileage. The bimmers have always been more fun, more maintenance, while the Lexus is a luxurious cruiser that is especially great for long trips. I also find the tech features on the loaded Lexus to be more intuitive then their German counterparts.
tturedraider commented:
January 19, 2013, 12:24 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
I want to retract myself. Despite the better pics, I saw it in person and it is indeed very ugly.
haha....I could tell from that video I first saw. It has a very "weak chin" and is just generally very poorly proportioned. It's all about the viewing angles in real life and the photos don't convey the 3-D experience.
getz commented:
January 19, 2013, 2:10 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotman View Post
Lexus engineers claim they have engineered this car from the ground up for better handling and performance, and it does seem they have been having some success in this regard.

For example, many, many reviewers agree that the Lexus GS is a very worthy competitor to the current 5 series, with equal or better handling, but much better reliability.

Not sure how you can pan this car when you haven't driven it....

I agree the front end on the F-sport is pretty ugly, the non-f sport model is fine.

But the interior, especially the quality of materials, is head and shoulders above the current three series (I just sat in both yesterday at Detroit Auto show, press preview).

Plus, this car will be much more reliable than its German counterparts.

Probably won't out handle the F30, but is much, much closer, as is the new Infiniti, and the new Cadillacs, and likely new products from Acura as well.

BMW has its hands full, and again many have said it has slipped a bit, especially with the current 5 series....

And Audi sales are going gangbusters....

So my point is, this competition is good for all of us....because the days of Lexus building cars for 70 year olds is changing.

If you haven't driven the new GS, try it....you might not like the styling, but every single review I've read pits it very favorably against the 5 series.

The same may be true with this IS...and we know that the CTS and ATS, even if you don't like their styling, have proven to be reliable, good handling and economical choices to the 3 series, whereas in the past they were a joke.

Things are changing....give Lexus a bit of credit....the new IS is much better than you may think.

Same goes for the new Infiniti.....the are struggling with brand identity, true, but if they hit a home run on a design, and offer it cheaper and more reliably, which they can do better than BMW.....BMW could be in real trouble.

They are getting pressure from all angles, including Audi, the Asians, etc.

I'll bet MB even steals some entry level buyers with its new CLA, although that's FWD.

I have to say that I love my 5-series. I cross shopped the competition excluding the Lexus because in my humble opinion it is underpowered. I think BMW hit a home run with the 5'er and its sales volume seems to agree.
captainaudio commented:
January 19, 2013, 2:27 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by getz View Post
I have to say that I love my 5-series. I cross shopped the competition excluding the Lexus because in my humble opinion it is underpowered. I think BMW hit a home run with the 5'er and its sales volume seems to agree.
I did not really cross shop the 750i with Lexus. I had driven my cousins LS and I can see why he likes it but after an extended test drive of a 750 I was sold.

CA
brkf commented:
January 19, 2013, 2:45 am

Two friends own the current IS. Both are scratching their heads about the design direction. Odd decision by toyota (also Infiniti uglying up the G replacement). The F30 is pretty invisible but it's not weird looking.
The X Men commented:
January 19, 2013, 8:34 am

Lexus should not have gone full in with their ugly cooperate grille, they should have dip their toes in it to test the water first. Initial reaction to the GS350's grille was mostly negative, Lexus should have learn from that. As far as rattles in the F30, there are some reports of rattles but its not wide spread. When I had the F30 3 series for a day or so, it didnt feel that solid to me. Not 5 series and 7 series solid anyways. Some people are much more sensitive to rettles than others, I am border line OCD about rattles and how solid a car feels. Some friends of mine couldnt care less about rattles, even after I point out the small rattles, they claim they dont hear it. When I point out the really loud ones, they would say something to the affect of " You mean that little squeak, all cars have that, it doesnt bother me at all.
dtc100 commented:
January 19, 2013, 8:45 am

I have reason to believe many of us Bimmer drivers are more OCD than others
CALWATERBOY commented:
January 19, 2013, 11:33 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
OK, I just chose that title to stir up trouble.

More of a problem for Audi, don't you think?
mr_clueless commented:
January 19, 2013, 11:38 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
I have reason to believe many of us Bimmer drivers are more OCD than others
I agree. Those that are not OCD enough leave for other brands with less car trouble. For example, I put up with multiple instances of failed sending units when my car was new, but there was a guy that said he sold his car and bought a toyota. A friend of my sold his Bimmer because it was breaking a lot at 60-70K miles and got a Lexus instead. He says he misses the Bimmer but the Lexus is super reliable.
LarryboysUDM commented:
January 19, 2013, 3:28 pm

I don't think the 2014 Lexus IS will doom the F30 and I would say from the pics it looks good front/back/inside. I might test drive one just for kicks.

No rattles and buzzes yet but the brake squeak is there and so is the fun factor...for realiability look somewhere else.
dseag2 commented:
January 19, 2013, 10:54 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Lexus should not have gone full in with their ugly cooperate grille, they should have dip their toes in it to test the water first. Initial reaction to the GS350's grille was mostly negative, Lexus should have learn from that. As far as rattles in the F30, there are some reports of rattles but its not wide spread. When I had the F30 3 series for a day or so, it didnt feel that solid to me. Not 5 series and 7 series solid anyways. Some people are much more sensitive to rettles than others, I am border line OCD about rattles and how solid a car feels. Some friends of mine couldnt care less about rattles, even after I point out the small rattles, they claim they dont hear it. When I point out the really loud ones, they would say something to the affect of " You mean that little squeak, all cars have that, it doesnt bother me at all.
The reaction to the GS's grill was negative, but Lexus is still selling the GS in the volumes they projected. Not to the extent that BMW sells the 5 series, but it met their expectations without a lot of discounting so the design... and especially the interior and driving experience... seems to have paid off for them. They seem to be going through the "Bangle era" design phase, where the exterior design may seem weird to some but the driving experience is great!
sekitori commented:
January 19, 2013, 11:29 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
Japan used to make good looking cars, what happened?
It all started with the 2009 Acura TL and its hideous looking "beak-like" front grille. I thought that was just about the ugliest looking grille I ever saw--until Lexus came up with this one. If Lexus intended to make that awful TL grille appear better by comparison, I think they succeeded.
The X Men commented:
January 20, 2013, 10:12 am

The worst part is that Acura is so stubborn that they are sticking with the bird beak grille. They have made some improvements, but the basic concept is still there.
Saintor commented:
January 20, 2013, 10:29 am

I sat in the "new" RLX 2014 and I can tell you that Acura will pursue its *disgrace*. It feels like a refreshed 1996 3.5RL.
dtc100 commented:
January 20, 2013, 11:00 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryboysUDM View Post
I don't think the 2014 Lexus IS will doom the F30 and I would say from the pics it looks good front/back/inside. I might test drive one just for kicks.

No rattles and buzzes yet but the brake squeak is there and so is the fun factor...for realiability look somewhere else.
Did you mean brake squeak being a fun factor? How wide spread is it?
av98 commented:
January 20, 2013, 1:22 pm

With an ugly face like that the only IS customers live on another planet- Predators. Plus is it an ES, GS or IS, I can't tell the difference from the front they all look the same.
Elk commented:
January 20, 2013, 1:51 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by av98 View Post
Plus is it an ES, GS or IS, I can't tell the difference from the front they all look the same.
As with BMW.

Carrying significant styling cues across a manufacturer's entire line is becoming standard.
tturedraider commented:
January 20, 2013, 2:12 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
As with BMW.

Carrying significant styling cues across a manufacturer's entire line is becoming standard.
Of course with BMW it's been same sausage, three lengths virtually all along, excepting the E60/61 5er and the E65/66 7er. It has actually contributed to the iconic look and classic appeal of BMW through the years.
av98 commented:
January 20, 2013, 2:22 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
As with BMW.

Carrying significant styling cues across a manufacturer's entire line is becoming standard.
But BMWs look good across the board. It doesn't look like a predator or a charger. I can't even believe you would want to own that new IS pos. Give me the old IS look all day- both previous under-performing generations.
dtc100 commented:
January 20, 2013, 4:25 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by av98 View Post
But BMWs look good across the board. It doesn't look like a predator or a charger. I can't even believe you would want to own that new IS pos. Give me the old IS look all day- both previous under-performing generations.
Although I do agree at least in pictures, the IS design is too extreme, unless you live under the Roundel rock, you must be aware what you said about other brands is also common expression other brand drivers have for the BMWs.

When it comes to pure personal taste, it carries very little weight. Although I am not holding my breath the new IS will appeal to me, I am still willing to see that thing in person.
Elk commented:
January 20, 2013, 4:38 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by av98 View Post
But BMWs look good across the board.
They look OK; conservative, staid, not interesting enough to offend anyone.

I merely find it amusingly ironic - on a BMW forum - that a criticism of a competing manufacturer's cars is the other brand's vehicles all look the same.
chiba commented:
January 20, 2013, 8:23 pm

I have to chime in here.. The new IS is freakishly ugly.

I don't even think thats a subjective comment. I have a webber barbecue with a much nicer grill.



Go away!
Ripred commented:
January 21, 2013, 1:16 am

I agree that it looks pretty awful, but... There are plenty of potential customers who are into that overly aggressive looks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHAkCLk6wP8&sns=em

sekitori commented:
January 21, 2013, 5:29 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiba View Post
I have to chime in here.. The new IS is freakishly ugly.

I don't even think thats a subjective comment. I have a webber barbecue with a much nicer grill.



Go away!
I tried to figure out a name for this monstrosity. At first I thought of "opposing trapezoids" but that was much too kind. Then I hit on the one that describes it best--the "obese hourglass" grille.
Crzy'boutBimmer commented:
January 21, 2013, 5:38 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin951 View Post
Dear Lexus,
The photoshop smudge tool isn't for designing taillights. Also, Audi called and wants their grill back.
Hahahaha Awesome!
mr_clueless commented:
January 21, 2013, 6:34 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by sekitori View Post
I tried to figure out a name for this monstrosity. At first I thought of "opposing trapezoids" but that was much too kind. Then I hit on the one that describes it best--the "obese hourglass" grille.
It already has a name...spindle grill.
chiba commented:
January 21, 2013, 6:45 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_clueless View Post
It already has a name...spindle grill.
How about the "Septic grate"?
mdsbuc commented:
January 21, 2013, 6:49 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by sekitori View Post
I tried to figure out a name for this monstrosity. At first I thought of "opposing trapezoids" but that was much too kind. Then I hit on the one that describes it best--the "obese hourglass" grille.
My first thought was "bottom feeder."
AK commented:
January 23, 2013, 2:07 pm

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...t_first_drive/

It looks better in black than white... the darker color "mutes" some of the styling details.

But here's the tidbit that caught my eye: Bigger back seat and they now fold down 60/40! This is a HUGE deal for me and one of the reasons why I always eliminated Japanese brands like Lexus and Infiniti before...their back seats wouldn't fold down which hugely limited the utility of the car. So now I'm looking at a luxury performance sedan that has added utility (I can finally throw my mountain bike in the back), more interior room, unquestionable Toyota reliability and solid resale value? Hmmm... I might be able to "overlook" some of the styling cues for that.
sr5959 commented:
January 23, 2013, 2:26 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK View Post
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...t_first_drive/

It looks better in black than white... the darker color "mutes" some of the styling details.

But here's the tidbit that caught my eye: Bigger back seat and they now fold down 60/40! This is a HUGE deal for me and one of the reasons why I always eliminated Japanese brands like Lexus and Infiniti before...their back seats wouldn't fold down which hugely limited the utility of the car. So now I'm looking at a luxury performance sedan that has added utility (I can finally throw my mountain bike in the back), more interior room, unquestionable Toyota reliability and solid resale value? Hmmm... I might be able to "overlook" some of the styling cues for that.
You are right, looks really good in Black! What a difference!
Ripred commented:
January 23, 2013, 3:58 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK View Post
unquestionable Toyota reliability
pkim1079 commented:
January 25, 2013, 2:00 am

Does look pretty good i wonder how it drives. We test drove the current is350 and it was nice and strong and sounded good. Just didnt have it though. Curious to drive this one. But it wont matter my next car will be an ///M unless the isF steps it up BIG TIME.

I wouldnt be able to take neither cars to the limit so the one that is the better combination of handling looks and pricing would win for me. Of course i can pick up an e92 later on or a 1m coupe (when the overpriced used market nonsense is over).
pkim1079 commented:
January 25, 2013, 2:07 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by av98 View Post
With an ugly face like that the only IS customers live on another planet- Predators. Plus is it an ES, GS or IS, I can't tell the difference from the front they all look the same.
I cant tell the difference between the f10/f30 from the back. What difference does it make?

I think the gs fsport looks ****ing awesome. Now if it really had an f motor in it - wow.
pkim1079 commented:
January 25, 2013, 2:13 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
Lexus is a rebadged Toyota.

There, fix it for CA.
Id take a toyota LFA over any bmw ANYDAY.
dtc100 commented:
January 25, 2013, 11:24 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
Id take a toyota LFA over any bmw ANYDAY.
But since we can't, we are back to square one.
408Racer commented:
January 25, 2013, 12:21 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
Id take a toyota LFA over any bmw ANYDAY.
That's the problem with the pointless Toyota LFA...I'd rather get an Aventador with enough money leftover for another 328 and an X3.
Jamesonsviggen commented:
January 25, 2013, 12:25 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
Id take a toyota LFA over any bmw ANYDAY.
$375,000 buys a lot of BMW's lol
The X Men commented:
January 25, 2013, 12:27 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
Id take a toyota LFA over any bmw ANYDAY.
Until BMW makes a $400,000 car, we should not compare it to the LFA. Frankly, for $400,000, there are many other cars I would buy before the LFA.
bayoucity commented:
January 29, 2013, 11:18 pm

It doesn't look as bad in these newly released photos:







captainaudio commented:
January 29, 2013, 11:43 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by 408Racer View Post
That's the problem with the pointless Toyota LFA...I'd rather get an Aventador with enough money leftover for another 328 and an X3.
I have always considered Lamborghinis to be the ultimate nouveau riche low life car. If I was looking for a car in that price range it would not even be a consideration as I would be embarrassed to be seen in one. Lambos should come with bumper stickers that say "lots of money but no class". I wouln't care if they came out with a car that went 0 to 60 in 500 nanoseconds, pulled 12 Gs in cornering force and could drive up the side of a building, it will always be a car for rich parolees in my eyes.

This picture of Poop Duty in a Lambo pretty much sums it up.





CA
tturedraider commented:
January 29, 2013, 11:56 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
It doesn't look as bad in these newly released photos:







Yeah, in my eyes it looks every bit as hideous in these shots as the others. The worse thing is it looks even worse in 3D/real life.
av98 commented:
January 30, 2013, 1:05 am

No matter how you sell it, that is a Fugly looking car. Should be called L-F*!k'd design. Wth is Lexus heading, scary.
Ripred commented:
January 30, 2013, 1:26 am

Yeap, still looks awful with that pinched Audi grille and those hideous tail lights. But hey, for younger buyers (especially wapanese/weeaboos ) it may still look "sick" and "phat" (whatever word is now trendy to describe the tasteless car "design")
408Racer commented:
January 30, 2013, 12:27 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I have always considered Lamborghinis to be the ultimate nouveau riche low life car. If I was looking for a car in that price range it would not even be a consideration as I would be embarrassed to be seen in one. Lambos should come with bumper stickers that say "lots of money but no class". I wouln't care if they came out with a car that went 0 to 60 in 500 nanoseconds, pulled 12 Gs in cornering force and could drive up the side of a building, it will always be a car for rich parolees in my eyes.

This picture of Poop Duty in a Lambo pretty much sums it up.





CA


Since I can't afford one now, if/when I do, then yes, I'd be happy to be a nouveau rich low life driving a Lambo.

Just to balance out the Puff Doody pic:


408Racer commented:
January 30, 2013, 12:28 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Yeah, in my eyes it looks every bit as hideous in these shots as the others. The worse thing is it looks even worse in 3D/real life.
captainaudio commented:
January 30, 2013, 1:19 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by 408Racer View Post


Since I can't afford one now, if/when I do, then yes, I'd be happy to be a nouveau rich low life driving a Lambo.
But the Aventador has Flappy Paddles. Flappy paddles are like those people who "dance" while sitting on their chairs at wedding receptions.

Last fall I had a conversation with a guy who had test driven an Adventador. He was a professional race driver with years of experiece and had driven sports cars, GT Prototypes, Indy Car, Nascar and had been successful in all of them. He really disliked the Adventador transmission. He felt the shifts were much too jerky and tended to upset the car. This is probably not an issue for the rappers and drug dealers that are Lambos main client base.


CA
beden1 commented:
January 30, 2013, 1:44 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Yeah, in my eyes it looks every bit as hideous in these shots as the others. The worse thing is it looks even worse in 3D/real life.
I'm not a big fan of the grill, but it's not a bad futuristic design overall, IMO. At least they are not trying to copy the Mercedes and BMW designs like Kia and Hyundai, and the other beauty-is-truly-only-skin-deep auto manuafacturers do.
beden1 commented:
January 30, 2013, 1:47 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I have always considered Lamborghinis to be the ultimate nouveau riche low life car. If I was looking for a car in that price range it would not even be a consideration as I would be embarrassed to be seen in one. Lambos should come with bumper stickers that say "lots of money but no class". I wouln't care if they came out with a car that went 0 to 60 in 500 nanoseconds, pulled 12 Gs in cornering force and could drive up the side of a building, it will always be a car for rich parolees in my eyes.

This picture of Poop Duty in a Lambo pretty much sums it up.



CA
Lamborghini is the antithesis of Ferrari.
408Racer commented:
January 30, 2013, 1:50 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
But the Aventador has Flappy Paddles. Flappy paddles are like those people who "dance" while sitting on their chairs at wedding receptions.

Last fall I had a conversation with a guy who had test driven an Adventador. He was a professional race driver with years of experiece and had driven sports cars, GT Prototypes, Indy Car, Nascar and had been successful in all of them. He really disliked the Adventador transmission. He felt the shifts were much too jerky and tended to upset the car. This is probably not an issue for the rappers and drug dealers that are Lambos main client base.


CA
Touche'

I guess bemoaning the fact that the Aventador doesn't come with 3-pedals will open up a different can of worms...let's just say that although I prefer and have only dated Asians, if Scarlett Johansson were to show up and give me her unconditional surrender, I'm not about to respond with, "Sorry, not my type."

Interesting to hear about the jerky shifting...I wonder if the jerkiness will be tolerable/forgivable in street driving "cruise and destroy the lesser cars" mode? Sort of like needing the actual experience of being with a flatulent Scarlett.
408Racer commented:
January 30, 2013, 1:51 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
Lamborghini is the antithesis of Ferrari.
Is that sorta like a Ford vs. Chevy or BMW vs. Caddilac thing?
captainaudio commented:
January 30, 2013, 2:58 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by 408Racer View Post
Is that sorta like a Ford vs. Chevy or BMW vs. Caddilac thing?
Its more like a Rembrandt vs. Thomas Kinkade thing.

CA
408Racer commented:
January 30, 2013, 3:11 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
Its more like a Rembrandt vs. Thomas Kinkade thing.

CA
Got it!

So instead of Scarlett Johansson, Lindsay Lohan (who I'd still hit, by the way) would be a more appropriate representation of a Lambo?
captainaudio commented:
January 30, 2013, 3:15 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by 408Racer View Post
Got it!

So instead of Scarlett Johansson, Lindsay Lohan (who I'd still hit, by the way) would be a more appropriate representation of a Lambo?
I was thinking Kim Kardashian.

CA
beden1 commented:
January 30, 2013, 4:45 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
Its more like a Rembrandt vs. Thomas Kinkade thing.

CA
This!
beden1 commented:
January 30, 2013, 4:46 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I was thinking Kim Kardashian.

CA
And, this!
408Racer commented:
January 30, 2013, 6:06 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I was thinking Kim Kardashian.

captainaudio commented:
January 30, 2013, 6:15 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by 408Racer View Post

Lamborghini, Kim Kardashian.
Kanye West has one of each.



Your Honor, I rest my case.
Jamesonsviggen commented:
January 31, 2013, 10:09 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post

Lamborghini, Kim Kardashian.
Kanye West has one of each.



Your Honor, I rest my case.
The bossman(or was my boss as I have been free for a couple of months now) often drove this"


Notice the tasteful interior composed of matching green on black?


He admitted he bought it purely for the attention. I mentioned all kinds of cars he could replace it with and he would scoff that they were too ordinary and would not get him the attention that a scissor door-bright colored Lambo gets him.

We went out one time and a very attractive 20 something-year old girl asked to take a picture of me with the car even though I was clearly the passenger as the boss-man had gone next door while we were getting it gassed up. It's a bit odd.

The only other cars that got more attention are my friends TWO DeLoreans.
notfound commented:
January 31, 2013, 10:18 am

The new Lexus would totally doom the F30 if it wasn't this ugly.. I really don't know what they were thinking.. oh, wait, it must be the same guy who redesigned a very decently looking Acura TL back in 2008. I am sure Lexus will be on this list next year

http://www.automotive.com/worst-cars.../acura-tl.html
Jamesonsviggen commented:
January 31, 2013, 10:51 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by notfound View Post
The new Lexus would totally doom the F30 if it wasn't this ugly.. I really don't know what they were thinking.. oh, wait, it must be the same guy who redesigned a very decently looking Acura TL back in 2008. I am sure Lexus will be on this list next year

http://www.automotive.com/worst-cars.../acura-tl.html


I think styling is not the only issue, the drivetrains are not as competitive.

The base V-6 is severely outclassed by the N20 and the 3.5L, although better, is lacking compared to the N55 due to the torque deficit.
bmw_or_audi commented:
February 1, 2013, 7:30 pm

This is one instance where a front license plate would be an aesthetic improvement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
bmw_or_audi commented:
February 1, 2013, 7:34 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I don't think that a significant number of Lexus owners really wanted a BMW but "settled" for a Lexus because they couldn't afford a BMW.
For whatever reasons they preferred a Lexus to a BMW.
I know a few people like that.

Reason #1: reliability
Reason #2: more comfy
bmw_or_audi commented:
February 1, 2013, 7:43 pm

While we gleefully stereotype Lambo owners, here is a nice video titled "super cars - crazy drivers compilation." There are a few Ferraris in there, but you can jump to 8:45 for one particular driver, who may or may not be the quintessential Ferrari driver. That's why they don't make manuals anymore

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM3bGz_rQG0[/URL]
LegendsNeverDie commented:
February 1, 2013, 9:19 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
I think styling is not the only issue, the drivetrains are not as competitive.

The base V-6 is severely outclassed by the N20 and the 3.5L, although better, is lacking compared to the N55 due to the torque deficit.
The 3.5L is a fantastic engine. Pulls just as hard as the N55 but no turbo headaches. That is why they are using it in the new IS350. The IS350 is not a looker but it shines over the F30 328/335 when it comes to the 3.5 V6.
Jamesonsviggen commented:
February 1, 2013, 9:31 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
The 3.5L is a fantastic engine. Pulls just as hard as the N55 but no turbo headaches. That is why they are using it in the new IS350. The IS350 is not a looker but it shines over the F30 328/335 when it comes to the 3.5 V6.
I like torque.

The torque and mpg efficiency of the n55(or my tuned n20) is not matched by the 3.5
captainaudio commented:
February 1, 2013, 9:36 pm

I stopped in at Lexus of Manhattan last week. I was picking up the 335i after service at BMW Manhattan. Lexus is across the street and the bus stops right in front so I went in. They did not have the new IS but all of the other new models had the spindle grill. I did not mind it as much as I thought I would.

CA
captainaudio commented:
February 1, 2013, 9:39 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post
While we gleefully stereotype Lambo owners, here is a nice video titled "super cars - crazy drivers compilation." There are a few Ferraris in there, but you can jump to 8:45 for one particular driver, who may or may not be the quintessential Ferrari driver. That's why they don't make manuals anymore
These are pictures from the 2011 Ferrari Challenge Series.

I think these guys may be quintessential Ferrari drivers. They do not drive MTs because they are interested in having the latest F1 technology in their cars. These are privately owned race cars. The owners buy the cars for around $300,000 and then pay about $80.000 per season to have a Ferrari dealer bring the car to the tracks and act as their pit crews. The drivers fly to the races from all over the world.





CA
LegendsNeverDie commented:
February 1, 2013, 9:39 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
I like torque.

The torque and mpg efficiency of the n55(or my tuned n20) is not matched by the 3.5
I like smooth power delivery without heat soaking turbos and maintenance costs related to them. In real world driving the IS350 is barely behind the fuel economy of the N55 while delivering same performance. I averaged just over 18 mpgs in a 335 compared to 25 mpgs in the 328 and I wasn't even pushing it that much.
mr_clueless commented:
February 1, 2013, 9:48 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post
While we gleefully stereotype Lambo owners, here is a nice video titled "super cars - crazy drivers compilation." There are a few Ferraris in there, but you can jump to 8:45 for one particular driver, who may or may not be the quintessential Ferrari driver. That's why they don't make manuals anymore
Got to live up to my screen name sometimes so...why are all the Porsches and Ferraris drifting like that during turns? Won't things like DSC kick in?
Jamesonsviggen commented:
February 1, 2013, 10:19 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
I like smooth power delivery without heat soaking turbos and maintenance costs related to them. In real world driving the IS350 is barely behind the fuel economy of the N55 while delivering same performance. I averaged just over 18 mpgs in a 335 compared to 25 mpgs in the 328 and I wasn't even pushing it that much.
Had 9 dyno pulls back to back within 2hp of each other. No heatsoak. If you are like me, you want more. Gains from a turbo car are low hanging fruit while gains from NA engines were small potatoes.
bmw_or_audi commented:
February 1, 2013, 11:49 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_clueless View Post
Got to live up to my screen name sometimes so...why are all the Porsches and Ferraris drifting like that during turns? Won't things like DSC kick in?
Maybe they are older models without it. Maybe the drivers think they are so great they turn off the system. While every self-proclaimed enthusiast sings the virtues of RWD, put a big engine in there without stability control and you will see lots of people spinning around the twitchy back ends. Heck, I have even seen little pickup trucks spin out like that while accelerating prematurely on a wet curve exit. The stupefied look on the driver's face was priceless. You really have to know what you are doing with high Hp + RWD combos.

Have you noticed how every self proclaimed master driver bitches about FWD wheel hop while accelerating out of curves? I just tell them you don't know how to drive. You are giving too much gas, but your are not killing yourself thanks to FWD. They don't experience the wheel spin on moderately powered RWDs. But increase power a little bit, or make the pavement wet, and the reckless stupid mashing of the gas pedal results in videos like this. You break the rear end loose and it just overtakes you.
dtc100 commented:
February 2, 2013, 12:05 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
These are pictures from the 2011 Ferrari Challenge Series.

I think these guys may be quintessential Ferrari drivers. They do not drive MTs because they are interested in having the latest F1 technology in their cars. These are privately owned race cars. The owners buy the cars for around $300,000 and then pay about $80.000 per season to have a Ferrari dealer bring the car to the tracks and act as their pit crews. The drivers fly to the races from all over the world.





CA
With that kind of money, instead of putting those ads on my Ferrari, I would post naked photos of my girfriends on the car instead. The one with the nicest rack get to be at the front right where the headlights are, the one with the nicest ass goes to, well you know where
bmw_or_audi commented:
February 2, 2013, 12:44 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
These are pictures from the 2011 Ferrari Challenge Series.

I think these guys may be quintessential Ferrari drivers. They do not drive MTs because they are interested in having the latest F1 technology in their cars. These are privately owned race cars. The owners buy the cars for around $300,000 and then pay about $80.000 per season to have a Ferrari dealer bring the car to the tracks and act as their pit crews.
But are these the average Ferrari owners? I know Corvette owners who do a lot of tracking too, but I damn well know that is not what the average Corvette owner does.

Btwy, taking a jab at manual vs auto was the farthest thing on my mind. That last driver just seemed so comical. That was it. But while we are on the subject, I am aware of your well written posts about the professional drivers whose everyday cars are autos. But here is the thing. These people have driven real race cars on a regular basis. They have, per your posts, manual sport cars to reminisce occasionally, when they feel like it. But their daily drivers are turds compared to their race-prepped cars. It really doesn't matter whether they are autos or manuals, they just don't get their rocks off with their daily drivers. But for the rest of us, i.e. the 99.9999% of us who will never even touch an F1 car, or the 99.99% of us who will never get close to a NASCAR, and the 90+% who don't even have a second "fun car", our daily drivers are all we have for fun, all we have to "get our rocks off." For some of us, manual transmissions go a long way in giving us that extra fun factor.

As to the Ferrari weekend racers who want the latest F1 technology in their cars, sure, its great to experience first hand those technologies: the transmissions and who knows what else. But despite all its power, despite the fancy transmissions, I think even an Enzo Ferrari is far closer to a Camry than an F1 car when it comes to cornering ability. And I can honestly say I am not trying to be gratuitously provocative here. Lateral 1.05G is significantly more than 0.7G. But when viewed from the perspective of a car capable of 5Gs on high speed corners, it all looks nearly the same. I can only imagine how unintuitive F1 cars are to drive. Depending on speed, maximum lateral Gs can vary from 1.5-2 to 5+! That is insane and that is a realm no super car can even come close to, not even by a very very long shot. It is just a completely different world and with a completely different breed of drivers. So while they may get to experience some F1 components, these super cars don't even resemble remotely F1 cars.
captainaudio commented:
February 2, 2013, 1:46 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post
But are these the average Ferrari owners? I know Corvette owners who do a lot of tracking too, but I damn well know that is not what the average Corvette owner does.

Btwy, taking a jab at manual vs auto was the farthest thing on my mind. That last driver just seemed so comical. That was it. But while we are on the subject, I am aware of your well written posts about the professional drivers whose everyday cars are autos. But here is the thing. These people have driven real race cars on a regular basis. They have, per your posts, manual sport cars to reminisce occasionally, when they feel like it. But their daily drivers are turds compared to their race-prepped cars. It really doesn't matter whether they are autos or manuals, they just don't get their rocks off with their daily drivers. But for the rest of us, i.e. the 99.9999% of us who will never even touch an F1 car, or the 99.99% of us who will never get close to a NASCAR, and the 90+% who don't even have a second "fun car", our daily drivers are all we have for fun, all we have to "get our rocks off." For some of us, manual transmissions go a long way in giving us that extra fun factor.

As to the Ferrari weekend racers who want the latest F1 technology in their cars, sure, its great to experience first hand those technologies: the transmissions and who knows what else. But despite all its power, despite the fancy transmissions, I think even an Enzo Ferrari is far closer to a Camry than an F1 car when it comes to cornering ability. And I can honestly say I am not trying to be gratuitously provocative here. Lateral 1.05G is significantly more than 0.7G. But when viewed from the perspective of a car capable of 5Gs on high speed corners, it all looks nearly the same. I can only imagine how unintuitive F1 cars are to drive. Depending on speed, maximum lateral Gs can vary from 1.5-2 to 5+! That is insane and that is a realm no super car can even come close to, not even by a very very long shot. It is just a completely different world and with a completely different breed of drivers. So while they may get to experience some F1 components, these super cars don't even resemble remotely F1 cars.
The cars in the Ferrari Challenge are purpose built race cars and closely resemble the cars that are raced in the GT classes in the ALMS Series and the Grand AM Series (which have now merged into a single series). At one point drivers like Stirling Moss, Phil Hill and Dan Gurney would drive in F1 and sports car series like LeMans and the Daytona 500 but in recent years that has not been the case. The drivers in the Ferrari Challenge are excellent drivers for the most part but they are amateurs. The drivers in ALMS and Grand AM like Bill Auberlin, Boris Said, Andy Lally and Spencer Pumpelly are top drivers. Also Juan Pablo Montoya, who was a contender in F1 and just won the Daytona 24 Hour is not exactly tearing up NASCAR.

CA
LegendsNeverDie commented:
February 2, 2013, 8:25 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Had 9 dyno pulls back to back within 2hp of each other. No heatsoak. If you are like me, you want more. Gains from a turbo car are low hanging fruit while gains from NA engines were small potatoes.
Maybe it is the N20 then. As far as turbos go, been there and done that. I want a high revving, no headaches NA engine unless I am leasing the car.
dseag2 commented:
May 7, 2013, 11:26 pm

I don't think the IS will doom the 3 Series, but according to C&D it should certainly give it a run for its money...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFnrk4Zjds0

For the first poster who said it was about as fun as riding an elevator, I don't think so.
Dave 20T commented:
May 8, 2013, 1:23 am

I flipped through the Car and Driver article. The Lexus won over the BMW. BMW's numb electric, not hydraulic, steering was to blame.
Chris90 commented:
May 8, 2013, 7:43 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave 20T View Post
I flipped through the Car and Driver article. The Lexus won over the BMW. BMW's numb electric, not hydraulic, steering was to blame.
Which is odd, cause in Car and Driver's first drive of the Lexus they said the steering was completely lifeless. And that it was less fun that the previous IS, which wasn't much fun.

Quote:
Driven back-to-back with the current IS, the 2014 proved to be the more stable of the two. It's likely that overall grip has increased, but some of the IS's playfulness and character have been sacrificed to the holy trinity of NVH. It's a small difference and one that likely can be chalked up to the heavier GS-based architecture-the IS is up to 176 pounds heavier.
This was before some senior editor said "make sure it beats the 3 series in the comparo."

don't kid yourselves, Lexus makes boring cars, always have, always will. It takes them $400,000 to make a fun car.
Dave 20T commented:
May 8, 2013, 8:44 am

For a moment, forget about Lexus. Is BMW's steering improved or is hydraulic better?
samualcc commented:
May 8, 2013, 9:34 am

Formula to keep readers engaged in your magazine:

Part 1 - Do a first drive article praising the car and find one critical item you are concerned about. Suggest that perhaps said critical item will be fixed as you are driving a pre-production car. Splash first drive headline across the top edge of the cover.

Part 2 - Feature said car in a 1 on 1 comparison test with the current darling of the class. Make sure it beats the car or comes close. Make points which contradict both the first drive and previous reviews of the comparison car. Wonder out loud if the current industry leader is losing its luster. Advertise this as front page news.

Part 3 - Do an 8 car comparison test inviting inferior competitors which hardly compete with the top three cars in the comparison. Again contradict yourself by having the industry darling win the comparison, claim it wasn't even close and place the new rival in 4th place.

This will happen with the IS
LegendsNeverDie commented:
May 8, 2013, 11:18 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave 20T View Post
For a moment, forget about Lexus. Is BMW's steering improved or is hydraulic better?
"Verdict:
Handling? Check. Efficient and powerful? Check. Lousy tires? Check. Steering feel? Check, please."

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mw-328i-page-6

Unfortunately at the moment it is one of the worst in this segment.
Pappy Pipes commented:
May 8, 2013, 1:47 pm

I suppose a Japanese psychiatrist once employed by Toyota was tasked with selling their Mercedes Benz knockoff to gullible Americans.
"Call it Lexus" was his solution, "it will remind the Americans of luxury!"
What is up with Lexus' signature "fat lady" grill I will never understand... It's fugly!
Chris90 commented:
May 8, 2013, 2:15 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by samualcc View Post
Formula to keep readers engaged in your magazine:

Part 1 - Do a first drive article praising the car and find one critical item you are concerned about. Suggest that perhaps said critical item will be fixed as you are driving a pre-production car. Splash first drive headline across the top edge of the cover.

Part 2 - Feature said car in a 1 on 1 comparison test with the current darling of the class. Make sure it beats the car or comes close. Make points which contradict both the first drive and previous reviews of the comparison car. Wonder out loud if the current industry leader is losing its luster. Advertise this as front page news.

Part 3 - Do an 8 car comparison test inviting inferior competitors which hardly compete with the top three cars in the comparison. Again contradict yourself by having the industry darling win the comparison, claim it wasn't even close and place the new rival in 4th place.

This will happen with the IS
Well said. There's a reason they give this magazine away to subscribers for like 50 cents an issue.
Chris90 commented:
May 8, 2013, 2:16 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
"Verdict:
Handling? Check. Efficient and powerful? Check. Lousy tires? Check. Steering feel? Check, please."

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mw-328i-page-6

Unfortunately at the moment it is one of the worst in this segment.
The F30 steering has zero feel. The competition has zero feel. How is zero less than zero?
408Racer commented:
May 8, 2013, 2:23 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
The F30 steering has zero feel. The competition has zero feel. How is zero less than zero?
What's worse is the F30's feel is actually not as zero as the other zeroes.
captainaudio commented:
May 8, 2013, 2:26 pm

If we have learned nothing else here on Bimmerfest we have learned.

1. When BMW wins a magazine comparo it is because expert car savvy journalists recognize the superiority of BMW products.

2. When BMW loses a magazine Comparo it is because the magazine staff are a bunch of corrupt liars who were bribed into voting for a car that they all knew was vastly inferior to BMW products.

The bottom line is that that the F30 suspension and steering have almost universally criticized in the automotive press. I haven't seen any reviews that panned the car as a whole and some aspects of the F30 such as the new 4 cylinder engine and the 8 speed automatic have received almost universal praise. From all indiacations the F30 is n excellent car and a step forward from the E9x in many ways, but apparently not in all ways.

It appears that once BMW went to RFTs on the 3 Series they have had a hard time getting a balance between ride quality and performance. BMW is not the only manufacturer that is getting criticized for the feel of the electric power steering. The electric power steering on the new Porsche 911 has also received mixed reviews. In the ratings the BMW power train came in first (with the engine and transmission getting 10s - the highest possible rating) but the chassis ratings were last.

The Car and Driver article said: "Bumps that the Lexus absorbs and that the Cadillac shrugs off with a single succinct compression and rebound make the BMW pitch and roll and fight to stay on line". And the test car was equipped with the M-Sport package. They also said of the 335i "When engaged it is superbly balanced".

The bottom line is that all three are very good cars and each had areas they excelled but I would not discount the fact that the BMW was rated as less "fun to drive" than the other two. That does not mean that the F30 is not fun to drive but it does indicate that BMW has perhaps lost the edge that they once held in that area,

And no, the IS will not doom the 3 Series. The 3 Series is selling very well and will continue to sell very well and the vast majority of those who purchase one will not regret it.

CA
-=Hot|Ice=- commented:
May 8, 2013, 2:32 pm

The only thing I've learned here is that Lexus' are re-badged Toyota's.
captainaudio commented:
May 8, 2013, 2:34 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
The only thing I've learned here is that Lexus' are re-badged Toyota's.
Well I suggest you do some studying because we are having a quiz.

CA
-=Hot|Ice=- commented:
May 8, 2013, 2:37 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
Well I suggest you do some studying because we are having a quiz.

CA
Is the quiz going to be re-badged as a test? The new IS is a very nice piece of machinery.
408Racer commented:
May 8, 2013, 2:37 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
....That does not mean that the F30 is not fun to drive but it does indicate that BMW has perhaps lost the edge that they once held in that area,
This seems to be part of a trend that started years ago? An old friend of mine once said that he can feel his E46 M3 run over a cigarette but his E36 M3 would've told him what brand.

Oh, and he added that his wife's E90 335 would go airborne after hitting the cigarette.
Mo@BMWRockville commented:
May 8, 2013, 2:48 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by 408Racer View Post
This seems to be part of a trend that started years ago? An old friend of mine once said that he can feel his E46 M3 run over a cigarette but his E36 M3 would've told him what brand.

Oh, and he added that his wife's E90 335 would go airborne after hitting the cigarette.
BMW tailors towards the market. Cars are getting bigger and bigger to accommodate safety technology, and better fuel economy standards and the growing(stomach wise) American market.
captainaudio commented:
May 8, 2013, 2:50 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by 408Racer View Post
This seems to be part of a trend that started years ago? An old friend of mine once said that he can feel his E46 M3 run over a cigarette but his E36 M3 would've told him what brand.

Oh, and he added that his wife's E90 335 would go airborne after hitting the cigarette.
I was heading north on the Sawmill River Parkway on Saturday. I was with a friend who had not been in my car (we were in the 335i) since I had installed the Koni FSDs and the Continental DWS. He commented on how much better the ride quality was. A 135 convertible went by us and hit when it was just ahead of us it hit a frost heave, My passenger said that he actually say the left rear wheel leave the pavement.

Road feel is a good thing but an overly stiff suspension is not. I would like to see C&D do the comparo again with an F30 with DHP.

CA
LegendsNeverDie commented:
May 8, 2013, 3:09 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
The F30 steering has zero feel. The competition has zero feel. How is zero less than zero?
Most of the competition here bested the F30 in this category. Only one that scored lower was the Volvo.

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...ison-tests.pdf

It was bested by the Infinity, MB and Audi. Most recently and importantly you can also add the IS and ATS to that list.
LegendsNeverDie commented:
May 8, 2013, 3:22 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by 408Racer View Post
What's worse is the F30's feel is actually not as zero as the other zeroes.
It is regarded as the worst, only ahead of the Volvo. See my post above.
LegendsNeverDie commented:
May 8, 2013, 3:25 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by 408Racer View Post
This seems to be part of a trend that started years ago? An old friend of mine once said that he can feel his E46 M3 run over a cigarette but his E36 M3 would've told him what brand.

Oh, and he added that his wife's E90 335 would go airborne after hitting the cigarette.
That is why I really appreciate cars like the ATS or perhaps the upcoming S3/2 Series.
Chris90 commented:
May 8, 2013, 4:49 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
Most of the competition here bested the F30 in this category. Only one that scored lower was the Volvo.

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...ison-tests.pdf

It was bested by the Infinity, MB and Audi. Most recently and importantly you can also add the IS and ATS to that list.
Infiniti G25 gets a 10 for steering feel? It's on par with an E36 M3 then? Right.

Car and Driver is worthless. They were worthless back when they picked BMWs first as well.
Mo@BMWRockville commented:
May 8, 2013, 4:57 pm

The IS instrument cluster is pretty cool though. It's straight from the LF-A.
HokieXDriver commented:
May 8, 2013, 4:59 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
Road feel is a good thing but an overly stiff suspension is not.

CA
Couldn't agree more. Some people want a "race" suspension on their car for bragging rights, but such people haven't driven on a race track. Tracks are smooth. Real roads are not. A hard suspension will cause tires to lose contact with the road on irregular surfaces, which is terrible for handling.
LegendsNeverDie commented:
May 8, 2013, 5:17 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
Infiniti G25 gets a 10 for steering feel? It's on par with an E36 M3 then? Right.

Car and Driver is worthless. They were worthless back when they picked BMWs first as well.
C & D is by far the best out of the mainstream magazines and is very much enthusiast oriented. They tell it how it is and some people get all upset. LOL! Kudos to C&D for their excellent reviews.
LegendsNeverDie commented:
May 8, 2013, 5:20 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I was heading north on the Sawmill River Parkway on Saturday. I was with a friend who had not been in my car (we were in the 335i) since I had installed the Koni FSDs and the Continental DWS. He commented on how much better the ride quality was. A 135 convertible went by us and hit when it was just ahead of us it hit a frost heave, My passenger said that he actually say the left rear wheel leave the pavement.

Road feel is a good thing but an overly stiff suspension is not. I would like to see C&D do the comparo again with an F30 with DHP.

CA
I find the E90 RWD sport suspension to be exceptional for daily driving. Not too soft and not too stiff while providing fantastic handling and feedback.
Mo@BMWRockville commented:
May 8, 2013, 5:24 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
I find the E90 RWD sport suspension to be exceptional for daily driving. Not too soft and not too stiff while providing fantastic handling and feedback.
It's all preference. That topic has been beaten to death.
Chris90 commented:
May 8, 2013, 5:26 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
C & D is by far the best out of the mainstream magazines and is very much enthusiast oriented. They tell it how it is and some people get all upset. LOL! Kudos to C&D for their excellent reviews.
Best of the US mags maybe, but that's not saying much. I'd much rather read CAR or EVO, mags which cost subscribers like $10/issue, so you know the readers are paying their salaries, not advertisers.
LegendsNeverDie commented:
May 8, 2013, 5:30 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
Best of the US mags maybe, but that's not saying much. I'd much rather read CAR or EVO, mags which cost subscribers like $10/issue, so you know the readers are paying their salaries, not advertisers.
I could care less how much it costs. EVO and CAR are also glorified because they are not from US. Ill take C&D.
408Racer commented:
May 8, 2013, 5:34 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
It is regarded as the worst, only ahead of the Volvo. See my post above.
I know...I was purposely being vague to describe vagueness.
captainaudio commented:
May 8, 2013, 5:35 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
C & D is by far the best out of the mainstream magazines and is very much enthusiast oriented. They tell it how it is and some people get all upset. LOL! Kudos to C&D for their excellent reviews.
CD has had some of the finest automobile journalists ever on its staff including David E. Davis, Brock Yates, Leon Mandel and Csaba Csere. They were (are) car guys and very knowledgeable. I have had the honor to meet some of these guys and hear them speak in person and they know cars and they know what they are talking about, They may be opinionated by that comes with passion.

Car and Driver was very influential because it was so well written and because of the unique viewpoint it had viewing cars not just as pieces of machinery but as cultural icons,

CA
Chris90 commented:
May 8, 2013, 7:58 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
I could care less how much it costs. EVO and CAR are also glorified because they are not from US. Ill take C&D.
The problem with 50 cent magazines is they love every car. They have to, cause car companies pay their salaries.

EVO and CAR are good cause they will crap on a car they don't like, they're beholden to their readers, not their advertisers. And yes, they crap on cars like the IS or G35.

They raved about the 1994 Dodge Neon. What a POS that was:

Quote:
Highs:
Great performance, great spaciousness, great fun, great price.

Lows:
Mere niggles-no storage in the doors, rear windows open halfway.

Verdict:
This is the winning small car Lee Iacocca said couldn't be built for America.
LegendsNeverDie commented:
May 9, 2013, 8:57 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
The problem with 50 cent magazines is they love every car. They have to, cause car companies pay their salaries.

EVO and CAR are good cause they will crap on a car they don't like, they're beholden to their readers, not their advertisers. And yes, they crap on cars like the IS or G35.

They raved about the 1994 Dodge Neon. What a POS that was:
Not true at all. No thanks, Ill take C&D over the overpriced and glorified Euro magazines. C&D tells it how it is. I like the others for the pictures
LegendsNeverDie commented:
May 9, 2013, 9:29 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
They raved about the 1994 Dodge Neon. What a POS that was:
I also find it funny you bring this up. The sad reality is that the "POS" 10 year old SRT-4 Neon would still demolish its competition TODAY in terms of performance. It would also outperform the E90 328/330 AND F30 328 at the track and give the 335 a run for its money.
Jamesonsviggen commented:
May 9, 2013, 10:33 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
I also find it funny you bring this up. The sad reality is that the "POS" 10 year old SRT-4 Neon would still demolish its competition TODAY in terms of performance. It would also outperform the E90 328/330 AND F30 328 at the track and give the 335 a run for its money.
More true of the five year old Turbo Cobalt actually. Look at its Lightning Lap an Ring Time.
captainaudio commented:
May 9, 2013, 12:03 pm

When Dodge was their sponsor (Mazda is now) the Skip Barber Driving and Racing School used Dodge Neon SRTs. They were rather bare bones but a lot of fun to drive.

CA
LegendsNeverDie commented:
May 9, 2013, 1:14 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
More true of the five year old Turbo Cobalt actually. Look at its Lightning Lap an Ring Time.
The SRT-4 would not be far behind, if at all. Those things were dirt cheap, very underrated and very easy to tune. Stock ones were capable of 13 second runs with trap speed of well over 100 mph. They also owned around the cones. There is no doubt in my mind they were just as fast the Cobalt.

"It's hard to criticize a well-priced car that can smoke a number of higher-priced sports cars (the Honda S2000 and Nissan 350Z come to mind). Dodge, through its aftermarket parts distributor, Mopar, also offers a bunch of performance enhancements for the SRT-4, from suspension bits to turbo-upgrade kits."

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take-road-test
Jamesonsviggen commented:
May 9, 2013, 1:19 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
The SRT-4 would not be far behind, if at all. Those things were dirt cheap, very underrated and very easy to tune. Stock ones were capable of 13 second runs with trap speed of well over 100 mph. They also owned around the cones. There is no doubt in my mind they were just as fast the Cobalt.

"It's hard to criticize a well-priced car that can smoke a number of higher-priced sports cars (the Honda S2000 and Nissan 350Z come to mind). Dodge, through its aftermarket parts distributor, Mopar, also offers a bunch of performance enhancements for the SRT-4, from suspension bits to turbo-upgrade kits."

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take-road-test
All true, but all can be said for the Cobalt which did everything a bit better than the SRT-4 and with direct injection was a more modern power plant. I do not know of any figure where the SRT-4 bettered the Cobalt-T. My old Saab tuner did tunes for the Cobalt as they shared components and just a tune and down pipe had his car in the high 12's, same for the HHR SS, he cracked 12's in that silly thing too.
LegendsNeverDie commented:
May 9, 2013, 1:54 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
All true, but all can be said for the Cobalt which did everything a bit better than the SRT-4 and with direct injection was a more modern power plant. I do not know of any figure where the SRT-4 bettered the Cobalt-T. My old Saab tuner did tunes for the Cobalt as they shared components and just a tune and down pipe had his car in the high 12's, same for the HHR SS, he cracked 12's in that silly thing too.
All I am saying is that the SRT-4 was just as capable.
Jamesonsviggen commented:
May 9, 2013, 2:22 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
All I am saying is that the SRT-4 was just as capable.
I agree, but the Cobalt was said to be a better car. I would own a Cobalt before I would own a Neon.
LegendsNeverDie commented:
May 9, 2013, 2:44 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
I agree, but the Cobalt was said to be a better car. I would own a Cobalt before I would own a Neon.
Agreed. I was only responding to the Neon "POS" comment.
Jamesonsviggen commented:
May 9, 2013, 2:52 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
Agreed. I was only responding to the Neon "POS" comment.
Ok, gotcha.

The Neon may seem like a POS now, but it was the K Car of the 90's, keeping Chrysler alive and it was a competitive small car. ACRs for example were known to be very good autox cars.
Chris90 commented:
May 9, 2013, 9:50 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
I also find it funny you bring this up. The sad reality is that the "POS" 10 year old SRT-4 Neon would still demolish its competition TODAY in terms of performance. It would also outperform the E90 328/330 AND F30 328 at the track and give the 335 a run for its money.
It was a regular Avis special Neon they were raving about.
captainaudio commented:
May 9, 2013, 11:05 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
I could care less how much it costs. EVO and CAR are also glorified because they are not from US. Ill take C&D.
The best car magazine is Car and Track.

Just got the June issue today.

jlukja commented:
May 10, 2013, 12:24 am

classic

Where can I subscribe? I hear they're working on the insiders guide to Walmart parking lots.
408Racer commented:
May 10, 2013, 12:14 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlukja View Post
classic

Where can I subscribe? I hear they're working on the insiders guide to Walmart parking lots.
I once caught my girlfriend spend too much time in the bathroom with that rag's "Men and their Watches, Swim Trunk Edition."