pilotman commented:
January 17, 2013, 11:05 am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men
The early Lexus were build like a tank, much like the early Mercedes and the current BMW 5 and 7 series. The quality of Lexus have really gone down hill recently. There lastest Lexus models feels like its made of tin and they are full of rattles, I guess that is a by-product of a aggressive cost cutting program.
|
Can you please post a link to your source that Lexus quality has gone downhill, they have aggressive cost cutting and are full of rattles?
I am not a big consumer reports fan, but pick whatever source you want, i.e. JD Power, True Delta, CR, etc. and show me where Lexus quality is in the toilet as you claim.
Here's an article from Oct, 2012....
******************************
And the winner is ... Japan.
Japanese brands took seven of the top 10 spots in Consumer Reports' annual reliability rankings, pushing aside their U.S. and European rivals. Toyota Motor Co.'s Scion, Lexus and Toyota brands took the top three spots and the Toyota Prius C, a subcompact hybrid, got the best overall score. Mazda, Subaru and Honda were close behind.
The rankings, released Monday, predict the reliability of 2013 model-year vehicles based on surveys of Consumer Reports' readers. This year, 800,000 people submitted information on 1.2 million vehicles from the 2010 to 2012 model years. The rankings are critical for auto companies, since Americans frequently cite Consumer Reports as a main source of car-buying advice.
Ford and Lincoln, once top performers, plummeted to the bottom of this year's rankings because of persistent problems with glitchy touch screens and bumpy transmissions. Ford was also hurt because three normally reliable models - the Ford Escape, Ford Fusion and Lincoln MKZ - are all new for 2013, so Consumer Reports couldn't predict their reliability.
Also near the bottom were Chrysler Group's Chrysler, Dodge and Ram brands, which have been getting a fast makeover since partnering with Italy's Fiat three years ago. Consumer Reports says models with more features and more powerful engines, like the V-8 versions of the Chrysler 300 and Jeep Grand Cherokee - had the most issues.
The best-performing U.S. brand was Cadillac, from General Motors Co.
Volkswagen AG's luxury Audi brand made the biggest strides in this year's survey, climbing 18 spots to No. 8. It was the best-performing European brand. Glitch-free new models like the A7 sedan got high marks from Jake Fisher, Consumer Reports' director of automotive testing.
"They're out-BMWing BMW, easily, in terms of the driving dynamics," he said.
Electric cars also got impressive results. The all-electric Nissan Leaf was Nissan's best performer, partly because its electric motor has fewer parts than a gasoline engine, Fisher said. But the Chevrolet Volt - an extended-range electric car that has both an electric system and a conventional engine and transmission - also got the highest score of any GM vehicle.
"GM took a lot of painstaking time to develop that car," Fisher said.
The Volt was recalled earlier this year because vehicles crash-tested by the government showed a risk of fire when coolant leaked from the battery. But Consumer Reports' rankings don't reflect that, since the magazine only asks respondents to note issues that have happened on their own vehicles. Only vehicles with 100 or more responses are included. Among 2012 models, the magazine got the most responses for the Honda CR-V, with nearly 3,000.
Fisher said the magazine is getting about the same number of complaints as it did five years ago. But issues with electronics, audio and touch-screen systems have increased while complaints about mechanical problems are down.
Read more:
http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/toy...#ixzz2IFWT91kA
January 17, 2013, 2:01 am
You made a funny.
January 17, 2013, 2:49 am
I actually kinda like the way it looks. The unfortunate reality though is that they have once again managed to disappoint. Lexuses look good and by looking at them you'd think they'd be fun to drive. Get in and it's like riding in an elevator. BORING.
January 17, 2013, 3:00 am
January 17, 2013, 3:26 am
January 17, 2013, 3:52 am
Japan used to make good looking cars, what happened?
January 17, 2013, 4:37 am
Dear Lexus,
The photoshop smudge tool isn't for designing taillights. Also, Audi called and wants their grill back.
January 17, 2013, 5:29 am
Lexus is grasping for an identity with the advances at BMW, Merc, & Audi...even Infiniti is stepping it up.
January 17, 2013, 5:31 am
I pray that BMW will never adopt this whale mouth vacuum cleaner grill design. It is absolutely hideous.
January 17, 2013, 6:38 am
January 17, 2013, 7:14 am
That's a 1000x uglier than an ATS. Oooops, why did I bring that up?
EDIT: where did that red frown come from? Stupid iPad.
January 17, 2013, 8:01 am
Lexus has a real bad identity crisis.
Through the years; Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porshe have always managed to maintain a signature look.
Lexus, even though they make great cars, has always blended in with the generic look of Asian imports: Toyota, Nissan, Mazda...
This is their attempt at coming up with a signature look. Terrible!
January 17, 2013, 8:11 am
EDIT: where did that red frown come from? Stupid iPad.
Just watched video of it being introduced at the NAIAS and had to post....OMG that thing is absolutely butt ugly!! Seriously. What in the world is Lexus thinking?!
BJ
January 17, 2013, 8:14 am
I think the back end actually looks great...I like how the 'swoop' ties into the side
The front...yeeesh....it will be one of the few cars that actually looks better with a license plate to break up the huge predator grill. Way too Batmobile for this 44 year old.
Color will be important too....black will look far better than white as the grill wont be so pronounced. The gray in the pics already looks twice as nice as the white.
Coming from an '08 IS 350 - which I loved.
The new interior looks fantastic! Way different than German/European...but that has always been the case with Japanese cars. LOVE the LCD gauges....love the shifter....love the center stack and console.
I have zero regrets going from IS to 335 IX....but the IS is a very good car.
January 17, 2013, 8:17 am
The front...yeeesh....it will be one of the few cars that actually looks better with a license plate to break up the huge predator grill. .
January 17, 2013, 8:20 am
a retarded audi
January 17, 2013, 8:40 am
BJ
January 17, 2013, 9:25 am
For example, many, many reviewers agree that the Lexus GS is a very worthy competitor to the current 5 series, with equal or better handling, but much better reliability.
Not sure how you can pan this car when you haven't driven it....
I agree the front end on the F-sport is pretty ugly, the non-f sport model is fine.
But the interior, especially the quality of materials, is head and shoulders above the current three series (I just sat in both yesterday at Detroit Auto show, press preview).
Plus, this car will be much more reliable than its German counterparts.
Probably won't out handle the F30, but is much, much closer, as is the new Infiniti, and the new Cadillacs, and likely new products from Acura as well.
BMW has its hands full, and again many have said it has slipped a bit, especially with the current 5 series....
And Audi sales are going gangbusters....
So my point is, this competition is good for all of us....because the days of Lexus building cars for 70 year olds is changing.
If you haven't driven the new GS, try it....you might not like the styling, but every single review I've read pits it very favorably against the 5 series.
The same may be true with this IS...and we know that the CTS and ATS, even if you don't like their styling, have proven to be reliable, good handling and economical choices to the 3 series, whereas in the past they were a joke.
Things are changing....give Lexus a bit of credit....the new IS is much better than you may think.
Same goes for the new Infiniti.....the are struggling with brand identity, true, but if they hit a home run on a design, and offer it cheaper and more reliably, which they can do better than BMW.....BMW could be in real trouble.
They are getting pressure from all angles, including Audi, the Asians, etc.
I'll bet MB even steals some entry level buyers with its new CLA, although that's FWD.
January 17, 2013, 9:27 am
The new IS is not my cup of tea. The ATS on the other hand looks fantastic.
January 17, 2013, 9:40 am
Lexus is going down a slippery here with their new cooperate front end. It sort of remind of the same stubbornness that Acura had with their ugly grille. Buyers need to vote with their wallet, thats the only way Lexus will listen. The new GS, ES and now the IS are some of the uglist new design on the market and this is coming from a once loyal Lexus owner.
January 17, 2013, 9:48 am
Here we go yet again. The latest "3 Killer". Only this one is uglier than all the previous pretenders. Somebody wake me up when the next-in-line-to-the-throne comes up. The only legitimate competition to the 3er is the Audi. And they've come up short, thus far.
January 17, 2013, 10:02 am
Through the years; Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porshe have always managed to maintain a signature look.
Lexus, even though they make great cars, has always blended in with the generic look of Asian imports: Toyota, Nissan, Mazda...
This is their attempt at coming up with a signature look. Terrible!
The LS400 was somewhat generic and had obviously been influenced by Mercedes but was not what I would consider ugly.
IMO the SC Coupe, which was introduced in 1992, was the best looking car Lexus ever made (I am probably biased because I had one exactly like the one in the picture above). That car felt like it had been carved out of a solid block of steel and was a pleasure to drive. It had a very smooth inline 6 engine, a 5 Speed manual transmission and a suspension that had a great balance between comfort and handling,
But that was then and now is now and Lexus is not making anything that appeals to me.
CA
January 17, 2013, 10:15 am
I found the currrent IS (now fairly aged) to have the best interior in class in terms of driver's seat luxury, sportiness, and functionality on top of quality of materials. BMW took a nice step down on quality of materials in class with the f30 IMHO. The reason I never took a serious look at the IS was the joke of the backseat and the lack of a manual transmission.
Nonetheless, Lexus' 3.6 liter was always cream of the crop for n/a engines. Guess we'll see what they do here.
I find the exterior to be decent. I used to think the f30 front and rear ends were ugly; now I like the front and ignore the rear. I used to think the e60 was ugly. I used to think the "then new" Audi grill to be ugly on the a4 and a6. The new mercedes e-class front end? Used to be ugly to me...
I could go on. My point is simply that I no longer take my own initial reaction as something that's going to hold up.
January 17, 2013, 10:17 am
I think that Lexus caters to a different buyer than BMW.....
If you check both sides of the coin, a lot of the people on the Lexus forum like the new IS, and almost everyone on the BMW forum hates the new IS, and Lexus in general.
In fact, most here have no interest in Lexus, Acura and Infiniti, and vice versa.
I like Lexus because of their stellar reliability, and I have had some problems with every one of the four BMWs I have had....same goes for Acura and Infiniti....
And even Cadillac.
There is no point to these discussions, most of you would be very very hard pressed to ever consider a Lexus/Acura/Infiniti, Cadillac, etc...
Just keep buying the BMWs, if that is what makes you happy. Nothing wrong with that, to each his own.
BMW customers just don't like the Asian counterparts....(but it is amusing to me how many of you seem to have a Toyota, Honda, Nissan etc. as a second car, kid hauler, minivan, SUV etc etc...)
You like the reliability when it favors you, but not in the luxury segment I guess.
January 17, 2013, 10:19 am
I'm not sure why so many E46 and E90 owners want to see the F30 fail so badly. It makes no sense.
BJ
January 17, 2013, 10:27 am
January 17, 2013, 10:31 am
Just watched video of it being introduced at the NAIAS and had to post....OMG that thing is absolutely butt ugly!! Seriously. What in the world is Lexus thinking?!
January 17, 2013, 10:41 am
Here are a BMW and a Mercedes from the same era.
And in that era Lexus was a force to be reckoned with.
The brand was introduced in 1990 and within a few years Lexus was the best selling luxury brand, a position that it held for years.
Lexus was also constantly at the top of the JD Powers reliability list.
January 17, 2013, 10:52 am
The early Lexus were build like a tank, much like the early Mercedes and the current BMW 5 and 7 series. The quality of Lexus have really gone down hill recently. There lastest Lexus models feels like its made of tin and they are full of rattles, I guess that is a by-product of a aggressive cost cutting program.
January 17, 2013, 10:54 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=4U-RmPY-xFU
Here's the video. It wasn't the photos that I first saw. It was the car in motion in this video. The proportions are just horrible.
January 17, 2013, 10:57 am
I'd rather buy this than the ATS. In any event, the F30 looks like it will continue to reign supreme in its generation.
January 17, 2013, 11:05 am
I am not a big consumer reports fan, but pick whatever source you want, i.e. JD Power, True Delta, CR, etc. and show me where Lexus quality is in the toilet as you claim.
Here's an article from Oct, 2012....
******************************
And the winner is ... Japan.
Japanese brands took seven of the top 10 spots in Consumer Reports' annual reliability rankings, pushing aside their U.S. and European rivals. Toyota Motor Co.'s Scion, Lexus and Toyota brands took the top three spots and the Toyota Prius C, a subcompact hybrid, got the best overall score. Mazda, Subaru and Honda were close behind.
The rankings, released Monday, predict the reliability of 2013 model-year vehicles based on surveys of Consumer Reports' readers. This year, 800,000 people submitted information on 1.2 million vehicles from the 2010 to 2012 model years. The rankings are critical for auto companies, since Americans frequently cite Consumer Reports as a main source of car-buying advice.
Ford and Lincoln, once top performers, plummeted to the bottom of this year's rankings because of persistent problems with glitchy touch screens and bumpy transmissions. Ford was also hurt because three normally reliable models - the Ford Escape, Ford Fusion and Lincoln MKZ - are all new for 2013, so Consumer Reports couldn't predict their reliability.
Also near the bottom were Chrysler Group's Chrysler, Dodge and Ram brands, which have been getting a fast makeover since partnering with Italy's Fiat three years ago. Consumer Reports says models with more features and more powerful engines, like the V-8 versions of the Chrysler 300 and Jeep Grand Cherokee - had the most issues.
The best-performing U.S. brand was Cadillac, from General Motors Co.
Volkswagen AG's luxury Audi brand made the biggest strides in this year's survey, climbing 18 spots to No. 8. It was the best-performing European brand. Glitch-free new models like the A7 sedan got high marks from Jake Fisher, Consumer Reports' director of automotive testing.
"They're out-BMWing BMW, easily, in terms of the driving dynamics," he said.
Electric cars also got impressive results. The all-electric Nissan Leaf was Nissan's best performer, partly because its electric motor has fewer parts than a gasoline engine, Fisher said. But the Chevrolet Volt - an extended-range electric car that has both an electric system and a conventional engine and transmission - also got the highest score of any GM vehicle.
"GM took a lot of painstaking time to develop that car," Fisher said.
The Volt was recalled earlier this year because vehicles crash-tested by the government showed a risk of fire when coolant leaked from the battery. But Consumer Reports' rankings don't reflect that, since the magazine only asks respondents to note issues that have happened on their own vehicles. Only vehicles with 100 or more responses are included. Among 2012 models, the magazine got the most responses for the Honda CR-V, with nearly 3,000.
Fisher said the magazine is getting about the same number of complaints as it did five years ago. But issues with electronics, audio and touch-screen systems have increased while complaints about mechanical problems are down.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/toy...#ixzz2IFWT91kA
January 17, 2013, 11:14 am
I am not a big consumer reports fan, but pick whatever source you want, i.e. JD Power, True Delta, CR, etc. and show me where Lexus quality is in the toilet as you claim.
January 17, 2013, 11:18 am
I find the exterior to be decent. I used to think the f30 front and rear ends were ugly; now I like the front and ignore the rear. I used to think the e60 was ugly. I used to think the "then new" Audi grill to be ugly on the a4 and a6. The new mercedes e-class front end? Used to be ugly to me...
I could go on. My point is simply that I no longer take my own initial reaction as something that's going to hold up.
I've liked the F30 design from the beginning and I still do. I always liked the E60 exterior design, but I do not like the pre-LCI E60 interior. The LCI interior update made all the difference in the E60. I still think the current Audi front end treatment is butt ugly after however many years it's been. I think the entire Merc E Class exterior design is ugly. The previous Merc E Class was quite beautiful. I thought the current 7er kidney grill was too big the first time I saw it and I still do.
For me, my initial impressions don't generally change much.
I think that Lexus caters to a different buyer than BMW.....
If you check both sides of the coin, a lot of the people on the Lexus forum like the new IS, and almost everyone on the BMW forum hates the new IS, and Lexus in general.
In fact, most here have no interest in Lexus, Acura and Infiniti, and vice versa.
I like Lexus because of their stellar reliability, and I have had some problems with every one of the four BMWs I have had....same goes for Acura and Infiniti....
And even Cadillac.
There is no point to these discussions, most of you would be very very hard pressed to ever consider a Lexus/Acura/Infiniti, Cadillac, etc...
Just keep buying the BMWs, if that is what makes you happy. Nothing wrong with that, to each his own.
BMW customers just don't like the Asian counterparts....(but it is amusing to me how many of you seem to have a Toyota, Honda, Nissan etc. as a second car, kid hauler, minivan, SUV etc etc...)
You like the reliability when it favors you, but not in the luxury segment I guess.
I attended a Cadillac CTS-V Series driving event in October and found the CTS-V to be a great performer. It doesn't have the German feel that I prefer, but I would have to say it performs every bit as well as any ///M car I've driven.
I have a BMW bias, but I pretty much call 'em as I see 'em.
January 17, 2013, 11:18 am
As for rattles and cost cutting BMW is not innocent.
January 17, 2013, 11:20 am
I have a hard time believing that there is a large population who will be comparing the F30 and the IS. They are so radically different in personality that I can't see how someone who likes one would possibly like the other.
January 17, 2013, 11:26 am
From my experience both cars have been very reliable. The 335i is as quiet as the Lexus was and in spite of being a convertible that has gotten beat up on NYC roads is rattle free.
I will leave the fact that the RFTs and the stock sport suspension sucked out of this conversation since I was able to rectify that issue. The fact that the car has remained rattle free in spite of the number of Pothole Explosions it endured does speak to the fact that the car is very solidly built.
CA
January 17, 2013, 11:32 am
So what does the non-F look like?
January 17, 2013, 11:34 am
My 335i was fairly reliable but the N54 is a problematic engine. Just had $3800 worth of extended warranty work done at 72K miles (wastegates, water pump, 2nd oil leak, and now after all of that work I have a very rough idle that I've not been back to the dealer to have checked). I want Japanese reliability but there's nothing out there that will drive like my E90.
January 17, 2013, 11:53 am
Is this the non-f version?
January 17, 2013, 12:57 pm
I think the 2014 lexus IS looks decent although similar to the current IS. The problem with the current IS much like most of the other Lexus models is that they do not drive well. I will have to reserve judgement until I drive a 2014 IS but when I decide the time is right to get a new car, the F30 however will be on the top of my list while the IS is at the bottom.
January 17, 2013, 12:59 pm
January 17, 2013, 1:33 pm
For example, many, many reviewers agree that the Lexus GS is a very worthy competitor to the current 5 series, with equal or better handling, but much better reliability.
Not sure how you can pan this car when you haven't driven it....
January 17, 2013, 1:34 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzSRVgF501M
it will transform into the new IS.
January 17, 2013, 1:40 pm
it will transform into the new IS.
Bravo.
BJ
January 17, 2013, 1:51 pm
at least its different. to each his/her own
January 17, 2013, 1:53 pm
Not all cars within a segment truly compete with each other. Consumers shopping in the "3" segment won't really consider all cars equally because they really aren't all the same even though they might be similar in size and price.
Cars have a design language and a personality and consumers typically identify with a particular design language and personality. Within the "3" segment I think the cars are grouped into sub-groups: 3 series, C class, A4 and ATS are close enough in design language and personality that consumers will cross shop them. Infiniti and Lexus are close enough to cross shop them. But how often will and Infiniti buyer seriously cross shop a 3 series, and vice versa? I think thats less common.
I guess what I'm saying is, Infiniti and Lexus are probably going to end up battling each other for a small piece of the "3" segment, while BMW, Audi, Merc and Cadillac will battle for the lion's share.
January 17, 2013, 2:03 pm
IS grill is freaken ugly
January 17, 2013, 2:28 pm
January 17, 2013, 2:39 pm
January 17, 2013, 3:51 pm
January 17, 2013, 5:47 pm
Not that bad in non IS-F version. The interior looks "substantial".
January 17, 2013, 5:57 pm
January 17, 2013, 6:10 pm
Not sure how you can pan this car when you haven't driven it....
BECAUSE OF THIS, Lexus is working from a hole that they need to climb out of. When a car company comes out with a new design or vehicle, I don't just wipe the slate clean. They have a lot to prove to get me in their corner.
January 17, 2013, 7:44 pm
Front looks like the predator, from the back, the taillights make it look like a drag queen. And it probably won't be available with a manual. That's strike three, yerrrrrrrr out Lexus!!
January 18, 2013, 10:03 am
So it's not quite as hideous as the first photos that Lexus released
January 18, 2013, 1:27 pm
The reviews I've read so far seem to to the contrary.
January 18, 2013, 1:29 pm
No major rattles to report on either.
Have a 2011 Toyota Highlander SUV for the wife, its been bulletproof for first 40k miles, not a single rattle....
don't get me wrong, i still prefer teh F30 to the new IS.
All I'm saying is that I think its premature to bash its handling when none of us have driven it. I sat in the one at the Auto show (press event) since I live in Detroit, and I preferred the interior over BMWs.
It is at least a move in the right direction for Lexus.
Bashing Lexus on reliability, well, I just don't understand that. That has not been my personal experience, and is contrary to every single report on reliability, whether it be JD Power, Consumer Reports, True Delta, etc.
This is borne out in resale value as well, if Lexus cars are filled with problems and rattles, why is their resale so high? Just doesn't make sense.
German cars still handle better, have better feel and designs that age more gracefully (except for the new Lexus GS, which seems to out perform the 5 series).
January 18, 2013, 2:27 pm
No major rattles to report on either.
Have a 2011 Toyota Highlander SUV for the wife, its been bulletproof for first 40k miles, not a single rattle....
don't get me wrong, i still prefer teh F30 to the new IS.
All I'm saying is that I think its premature to bash its handling when none of us have driven it. I sat in the one at the Auto show (press event) since I live in Detroit, and I preferred the interior over BMWs.
It is at least a move in the right direction for Lexus.
Bashing Lexus on reliability, well, I just don't understand that. That has not been my personal experience, and is contrary to every single report on reliability, whether it be JD Power, Consumer Reports, True Delta, etc.
This is borne out in resale value as well, if Lexus cars are filled with problems and rattles, why is their resale so high? Just doesn't make sense.
German cars still handle better, have better feel and designs that age more gracefully (except for the new Lexus GS, which seems to out perform the 5 series).
I think I was one of the few people in here who said it was too early to bash the handling of the new IS and I also said if the IS is a better handling version of the new GS, it might out perform the F30.
I never bash on Lexus' reliability, all I said was the new Lexus does not feel solid. There are more complaints on the Lexus forums about rattles than BMW.
January 18, 2013, 3:19 pm
I think I was one of the few people in here who said it was too early to bash the handling of the new IS and I also said if the IS is a better handling version of the new GS, it might out perform the F30.
I never bash on Lexus' reliability, all I said was the new Lexus does not feel solid. There are more complaints on the Lexus forums about rattles than BMW.
I have never heard significant complaints from Lexus owners, including those relating to rattles.
Nor have I ever heard a Lexus referred to as rattle trap. Perhaps I'm missing that. Ours have been more rattle free than any other make.
I was really underwhelmed by my E90 328, and at 44k miles towards the end of the lease it had a bunch of rattles.
But the point isn't to compare reliability, but whether the IS is a worthy competitor.
It will NEVER be a worthy competitor to those on this forum, nor will a Mercedes, an Infiniti or an Acura.
Discussions like this are worthless, because they won't ever change someone's opinion. I like to try different brands, and like BMW, but have been getting a bit bored with them....and will try anything.
I am currently out of the BMW family, after 4 in a row, and honestly I don't want back in yet.
As Boltjames says, all threads about other cars, including the CTS, ATS, A4, Q50, IS should all be banned....people here only want to talk about how great BMWs are.
January 18, 2013, 3:20 pm
January 18, 2013, 5:10 pm
January 18, 2013, 5:28 pm
I want to retract myself. Despite the better pics, I saw it in person and it is indeed very ugly.
January 18, 2013, 5:34 pm
I don't think that a significant number of Lexus owners really wanted a BMW but "settled" for a Lexus because they couldn't afford a BMW.
For whatever reasons they preferred a Lexus to a BMW. That was certainly my situation in 1992 when I purchased a Lexus SC300 coupe. I crossed shopped BMW and Mercedes and preferred the Lexus. Cost was not an issue as all of the cars were similarly priced.
CA
January 18, 2013, 5:53 pm
the rear end of the new IS is beautiful
Just like JLo's rear end
January 18, 2013, 6:00 pm
Just like JLo's rear end
"The new IS, just like JLo, big rear end - small talent!"
CA
January 18, 2013, 6:10 pm
"The new IS, just like JLo, big rear end - small talent!"
CA
You should be working for ad agencies
January 18, 2013, 6:26 pm
Dude Lexus is Toyota PLUS its a ugly looking car, Stick with the 3 series
January 18, 2013, 6:39 pm
My F30 has been in twice already for rattles and buzzes. My modest Subaru has never rattled or buzzed.
January 18, 2013, 6:48 pm
Hmm...
My F30 has been in twice already for rattles and buzzes. My modest Subaru has never rattled or buzzed.
CA
January 18, 2013, 8:03 pm
January 18, 2013, 8:05 pm
Hmm...
My F30 has been in twice already for rattles and buzzes. My modest Subaru has never rattled or buzzed.
January 18, 2013, 8:09 pm
this is nice from the rear... if the car is fast then this what F30 drivers will see....
January 18, 2013, 8:15 pm
Lexus is a rebadged Toyota.
There, fix it for CA.
January 18, 2013, 9:35 pm
There, fix it for CA.
I figured that would have been the second or third post.
CA
January 18, 2013, 10:51 pm
January 18, 2013, 11:36 pm
I have owned four BMW's. A 2002 ti that I had to put in a Weber two barrel carb to get some power, but it handled great, a 320i, a 733i, and now a 328i. We also have a 2011 Lexus ES350 which is smooth, reliable, and a horse on long trips, with good gas mileage. The bimmers have always been more fun, more maintenance, while the Lexus is a luxurious cruiser that is especially great for long trips. I also find the tech features on the loaded Lexus to be more intuitive then their German counterparts.
January 19, 2013, 12:24 am
January 19, 2013, 2:10 am
For example, many, many reviewers agree that the Lexus GS is a very worthy competitor to the current 5 series, with equal or better handling, but much better reliability.
Not sure how you can pan this car when you haven't driven it....
I agree the front end on the F-sport is pretty ugly, the non-f sport model is fine.
But the interior, especially the quality of materials, is head and shoulders above the current three series (I just sat in both yesterday at Detroit Auto show, press preview).
Plus, this car will be much more reliable than its German counterparts.
Probably won't out handle the F30, but is much, much closer, as is the new Infiniti, and the new Cadillacs, and likely new products from Acura as well.
BMW has its hands full, and again many have said it has slipped a bit, especially with the current 5 series....
And Audi sales are going gangbusters....
So my point is, this competition is good for all of us....because the days of Lexus building cars for 70 year olds is changing.
If you haven't driven the new GS, try it....you might not like the styling, but every single review I've read pits it very favorably against the 5 series.
The same may be true with this IS...and we know that the CTS and ATS, even if you don't like their styling, have proven to be reliable, good handling and economical choices to the 3 series, whereas in the past they were a joke.
Things are changing....give Lexus a bit of credit....the new IS is much better than you may think.
Same goes for the new Infiniti.....the are struggling with brand identity, true, but if they hit a home run on a design, and offer it cheaper and more reliably, which they can do better than BMW.....BMW could be in real trouble.
They are getting pressure from all angles, including Audi, the Asians, etc.
I'll bet MB even steals some entry level buyers with its new CLA, although that's FWD.
I have to say that I love my 5-series. I cross shopped the competition excluding the Lexus because in my humble opinion it is underpowered. I think BMW hit a home run with the 5'er and its sales volume seems to agree.
January 19, 2013, 2:27 am
CA
January 19, 2013, 2:45 am
Two friends own the current IS. Both are scratching their heads about the design direction. Odd decision by toyota (also Infiniti uglying up the G replacement). The F30 is pretty invisible but it's not weird looking.
January 19, 2013, 8:34 am
Lexus should not have gone full in with their ugly cooperate grille, they should have dip their toes in it to test the water first. Initial reaction to the GS350's grille was mostly negative, Lexus should have learn from that. As far as rattles in the F30, there are some reports of rattles but its not wide spread. When I had the F30 3 series for a day or so, it didnt feel that solid to me. Not 5 series and 7 series solid anyways. Some people are much more sensitive to rettles than others, I am border line OCD about rattles and how solid a car feels. Some friends of mine couldnt care less about rattles, even after I point out the small rattles, they claim they dont hear it. When I point out the really loud ones, they would say something to the affect of " You mean that little squeak, all cars have that, it doesnt bother me at all.
January 19, 2013, 8:45 am
I have reason to believe many of us Bimmer drivers are more OCD than others
January 19, 2013, 11:33 am
More of a problem for Audi, don't you think?
January 19, 2013, 11:38 am
January 19, 2013, 3:28 pm
I don't think the 2014 Lexus IS will doom the F30 and I would say from the pics it looks good front/back/inside. I might test drive one just for kicks.
No rattles and buzzes yet but the brake squeak is there and so is the fun factor...for realiability look somewhere else.
January 19, 2013, 10:54 pm
January 19, 2013, 11:29 pm
January 20, 2013, 10:12 am
The worst part is that Acura is so stubborn that they are sticking with the bird beak grille. They have made some improvements, but the basic concept is still there.
January 20, 2013, 10:29 am
I sat in the "new" RLX 2014 and I can tell you that Acura will pursue its *disgrace*. It feels like a refreshed 1996 3.5RL.
January 20, 2013, 11:00 am
No rattles and buzzes yet but the brake squeak is there and so is the fun factor...for realiability look somewhere else.
January 20, 2013, 1:22 pm
With an ugly face like that the only IS customers live on another planet- Predators. Plus is it an ES, GS or IS, I can't tell the difference from the front they all look the same.
January 20, 2013, 1:51 pm
Carrying significant styling cues across a manufacturer's entire line is becoming standard.
January 20, 2013, 2:12 pm
Carrying significant styling cues across a manufacturer's entire line is becoming standard.
January 20, 2013, 2:22 pm
Carrying significant styling cues across a manufacturer's entire line is becoming standard.
January 20, 2013, 4:25 pm
When it comes to pure personal taste, it carries very little weight. Although I am not holding my breath the new IS will appeal to me, I am still willing to see that thing in person.
January 20, 2013, 4:38 pm
I merely find it amusingly ironic - on a BMW forum - that a criticism of a competing manufacturer's cars is the other brand's vehicles all look the same.
January 20, 2013, 8:23 pm
I have to chime in here.. The new IS is freakishly ugly.
I don't even think thats a subjective comment. I have a webber barbecue with a much nicer grill.
Go away!
January 21, 2013, 1:16 am
I agree that it looks pretty awful, but... There are plenty of potential customers who are into that overly aggressive looks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHAkCLk6wP8&sns=em
January 21, 2013, 5:29 pm
I don't even think thats a subjective comment. I have a webber barbecue with a much nicer grill.
Go away!
January 21, 2013, 5:38 pm
The photoshop smudge tool isn't for designing taillights. Also, Audi called and wants their grill back.
January 21, 2013, 6:34 pm
January 21, 2013, 6:45 pm
January 21, 2013, 6:49 pm
January 23, 2013, 2:07 pm
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...t_first_drive/
It looks better in black than white... the darker color "mutes" some of the styling details.
But here's the tidbit that caught my eye: Bigger back seat and they now fold down 60/40! This is a HUGE deal for me and one of the reasons why I always eliminated Japanese brands like Lexus and Infiniti before...their back seats wouldn't fold down which hugely limited the utility of the car. So now I'm looking at a luxury performance sedan that has added utility (I can finally throw my mountain bike in the back), more interior room, unquestionable Toyota reliability and solid resale value? Hmmm... I might be able to "overlook" some of the styling cues for that.
January 23, 2013, 2:26 pm
It looks better in black than white... the darker color "mutes" some of the styling details.
But here's the tidbit that caught my eye: Bigger back seat and they now fold down 60/40! This is a HUGE deal for me and one of the reasons why I always eliminated Japanese brands like Lexus and Infiniti before...their back seats wouldn't fold down which hugely limited the utility of the car. So now I'm looking at a luxury performance sedan that has added utility (I can finally throw my mountain bike in the back), more interior room, unquestionable Toyota reliability and solid resale value? Hmmm... I might be able to "overlook" some of the styling cues for that.
January 23, 2013, 3:58 pm
January 25, 2013, 2:00 am
Does look pretty good i wonder how it drives. We test drove the current is350 and it was nice and strong and sounded good. Just didnt have it though. Curious to drive this one. But it wont matter my next car will be an ///M unless the isF steps it up BIG TIME.
I wouldnt be able to take neither cars to the limit so the one that is the better combination of handling looks and pricing would win for me. Of course i can pick up an e92 later on or a 1m coupe (when the overpriced used market nonsense is over).
January 25, 2013, 2:07 am
I think the gs fsport looks ****ing awesome. Now if it really had an f motor in it - wow.
January 25, 2013, 2:13 am
There, fix it for CA.
January 25, 2013, 11:24 am
January 25, 2013, 12:21 pm
January 25, 2013, 12:25 pm
January 25, 2013, 12:27 pm
January 29, 2013, 11:18 pm
It doesn't look as bad in these newly released photos:
January 29, 2013, 11:43 pm
This picture of Poop Duty in a Lambo pretty much sums it up.
CA
January 29, 2013, 11:56 pm
January 30, 2013, 1:05 am
No matter how you sell it, that is a Fugly looking car. Should be called L-F*!k'd design. Wth is Lexus heading, scary.
January 30, 2013, 1:26 am
Yeap, still looks awful with that pinched Audi grille and those hideous tail lights. But hey, for younger buyers (especially wapanese/weeaboos
January 30, 2013, 12:27 pm
This picture of Poop Duty in a Lambo pretty much sums it up.
CA
Since I can't afford one now, if/when I do, then yes, I'd be happy to be a nouveau rich low life driving a Lambo.
Just to balance out the Puff Doody pic:
January 30, 2013, 12:28 pm
January 30, 2013, 1:19 pm
Since I can't afford one now, if/when I do, then yes, I'd be happy to be a nouveau rich low life driving a Lambo.
Last fall I had a conversation with a guy who had test driven an Adventador. He was a professional race driver with years of experiece and had driven sports cars, GT Prototypes, Indy Car, Nascar and had been successful in all of them. He really disliked the Adventador transmission. He felt the shifts were much too jerky and tended to upset the car. This is probably not an issue for the rappers and drug dealers that are Lambos main client base.
CA
January 30, 2013, 1:44 pm
January 30, 2013, 1:47 pm
This picture of Poop Duty in a Lambo pretty much sums it up.
CA
January 30, 2013, 1:50 pm
Last fall I had a conversation with a guy who had test driven an Adventador. He was a professional race driver with years of experiece and had driven sports cars, GT Prototypes, Indy Car, Nascar and had been successful in all of them. He really disliked the Adventador transmission. He felt the shifts were much too jerky and tended to upset the car. This is probably not an issue for the rappers and drug dealers that are Lambos main client base.
CA
I guess bemoaning the fact that the Aventador doesn't come with 3-pedals will open up a different can of worms...let's just say that although I prefer and have only dated Asians, if Scarlett Johansson were to show up and give me her unconditional surrender, I'm not about to respond with, "Sorry, not my type."
Interesting to hear about the jerky shifting...I wonder if the jerkiness will be tolerable/forgivable in street driving "cruise and destroy the lesser cars" mode? Sort of like needing the actual experience of being with a flatulent Scarlett.
January 30, 2013, 1:51 pm
January 30, 2013, 2:58 pm
CA
January 30, 2013, 3:11 pm
CA
So instead of Scarlett Johansson, Lindsay Lohan (who I'd still hit, by the way) would be a more appropriate representation of a Lambo?
January 30, 2013, 3:15 pm
So instead of Scarlett Johansson, Lindsay Lohan (who I'd still hit, by the way) would be a more appropriate representation of a Lambo?
CA
January 30, 2013, 4:45 pm
CA
January 30, 2013, 4:46 pm
CA
January 30, 2013, 6:06 pm
January 30, 2013, 6:15 pm
Lamborghini, Kim Kardashian.
Kanye West has one of each.
Your Honor, I rest my case.
January 31, 2013, 10:09 am
Lamborghini, Kim Kardashian.
Kanye West has one of each.
Your Honor, I rest my case.
Notice the tasteful interior composed of matching green on black?
He admitted he bought it purely for the attention. I mentioned all kinds of cars he could replace it with and he would scoff that they were too ordinary and would not get him the attention that a scissor door-bright colored Lambo gets him.
We went out one time and a very attractive 20 something-year old girl asked to take a picture of me with the car even though I was clearly the passenger as the boss-man had gone next door while we were getting it gassed up. It's a bit odd.
The only other cars that got more attention are my friends TWO DeLoreans.
January 31, 2013, 10:18 am
The new Lexus would totally doom the F30 if it wasn't this ugly..
http://www.automotive.com/worst-cars.../acura-tl.html
January 31, 2013, 10:51 am
http://www.automotive.com/worst-cars.../acura-tl.html
I think styling is not the only issue, the drivetrains are not as competitive.
The base V-6 is severely outclassed by the N20 and the 3.5L, although better, is lacking compared to the N55 due to the torque deficit.
February 1, 2013, 7:30 pm
This is one instance where a front license plate would be an aesthetic improvement.
February 1, 2013, 7:34 pm
For whatever reasons they preferred a Lexus to a BMW.
Reason #1: reliability
Reason #2: more comfy
February 1, 2013, 7:43 pm
While we gleefully stereotype Lambo owners, here is a nice video titled "super cars - crazy drivers compilation." There are a few Ferraris in there, but you can jump to 8:45 for one particular driver, who may or may not be the quintessential Ferrari driver. That's why they don't make manuals anymore
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM3bGz_rQG0[/URL]
February 1, 2013, 9:19 pm
The base V-6 is severely outclassed by the N20 and the 3.5L, although better, is lacking compared to the N55 due to the torque deficit.
February 1, 2013, 9:31 pm
The torque and mpg efficiency of the n55(or my tuned n20) is not matched by the 3.5
February 1, 2013, 9:36 pm
I stopped in at Lexus of Manhattan last week. I was picking up the 335i after service at BMW Manhattan. Lexus is across the street and the bus stops right in front so I went in. They did not have the new IS but all of the other new models had the spindle grill. I did not mind it as much as I thought I would.
CA
February 1, 2013, 9:39 pm
I think these guys may be quintessential Ferrari drivers. They do not drive MTs because they are interested in having the latest F1 technology in their cars. These are privately owned race cars. The owners buy the cars for around $300,000 and then pay about $80.000 per season to have a Ferrari dealer bring the car to the tracks and act as their pit crews. The drivers fly to the races from all over the world.
CA
February 1, 2013, 9:39 pm
The torque and mpg efficiency of the n55(or my tuned n20) is not matched by the 3.5
February 1, 2013, 9:48 pm
February 1, 2013, 10:19 pm
February 1, 2013, 11:49 pm
Have you noticed how every self proclaimed master driver bitches about FWD wheel hop while accelerating out of curves? I just tell them you don't know how to drive. You are giving too much gas, but your are not killing yourself thanks to FWD. They don't experience the wheel spin on moderately powered RWDs. But increase power a little bit, or make the pavement wet, and the reckless stupid mashing of the gas pedal results in videos like this. You break the rear end loose and it just overtakes you.
February 2, 2013, 12:05 am
I think these guys may be quintessential Ferrari drivers. They do not drive MTs because they are interested in having the latest F1 technology in their cars. These are privately owned race cars. The owners buy the cars for around $300,000 and then pay about $80.000 per season to have a Ferrari dealer bring the car to the tracks and act as their pit crews. The drivers fly to the races from all over the world.
CA
February 2, 2013, 12:44 am
I think these guys may be quintessential Ferrari drivers. They do not drive MTs because they are interested in having the latest F1 technology in their cars. These are privately owned race cars. The owners buy the cars for around $300,000 and then pay about $80.000 per season to have a Ferrari dealer bring the car to the tracks and act as their pit crews.
Btwy, taking a jab at manual vs auto was the farthest thing on my mind. That last driver just seemed so comical. That was it. But while we are on the subject, I am aware of your well written posts about the professional drivers whose everyday cars are autos. But here is the thing. These people have driven real race cars on a regular basis. They have, per your posts, manual sport cars to reminisce occasionally, when they feel like it. But their daily drivers are turds compared to their race-prepped cars. It really doesn't matter whether they are autos or manuals, they just don't get their rocks off with their daily drivers. But for the rest of us, i.e. the 99.9999% of us who will never even touch an F1 car, or the 99.99% of us who will never get close to a NASCAR, and the 90+% who don't even have a second "fun car", our daily drivers are all we have for fun, all we have to "get our rocks off." For some of us, manual transmissions go a long way in giving us that extra fun factor.
As to the Ferrari weekend racers who want the latest F1 technology in their cars, sure, its great to experience first hand those technologies: the transmissions and who knows what else. But despite all its power, despite the fancy transmissions, I think even an Enzo Ferrari is far closer to a Camry than an F1 car when it comes to cornering ability. And I can honestly say I am not trying to be gratuitously provocative here. Lateral 1.05G is significantly more than 0.7G. But when viewed from the perspective of a car capable of 5Gs on high speed corners, it all looks nearly the same. I can only imagine how unintuitive F1 cars are to drive. Depending on speed, maximum lateral Gs can vary from 1.5-2 to 5+! That is insane and that is a realm no super car can even come close to, not even by a very very long shot. It is just a completely different world and with a completely different breed of drivers. So while they may get to experience some F1 components, these super cars don't even resemble remotely F1 cars.
February 2, 2013, 1:46 am
Btwy, taking a jab at manual vs auto was the farthest thing on my mind. That last driver just seemed so comical. That was it. But while we are on the subject, I am aware of your well written posts about the professional drivers whose everyday cars are autos. But here is the thing. These people have driven real race cars on a regular basis. They have, per your posts, manual sport cars to reminisce occasionally, when they feel like it. But their daily drivers are turds compared to their race-prepped cars. It really doesn't matter whether they are autos or manuals, they just don't get their rocks off with their daily drivers. But for the rest of us, i.e. the 99.9999% of us who will never even touch an F1 car, or the 99.99% of us who will never get close to a NASCAR, and the 90+% who don't even have a second "fun car", our daily drivers are all we have for fun, all we have to "get our rocks off." For some of us, manual transmissions go a long way in giving us that extra fun factor.
As to the Ferrari weekend racers who want the latest F1 technology in their cars, sure, its great to experience first hand those technologies: the transmissions and who knows what else. But despite all its power, despite the fancy transmissions, I think even an Enzo Ferrari is far closer to a Camry than an F1 car when it comes to cornering ability. And I can honestly say I am not trying to be gratuitously provocative here. Lateral 1.05G is significantly more than 0.7G. But when viewed from the perspective of a car capable of 5Gs on high speed corners, it all looks nearly the same. I can only imagine how unintuitive F1 cars are to drive. Depending on speed, maximum lateral Gs can vary from 1.5-2 to 5+! That is insane and that is a realm no super car can even come close to, not even by a very very long shot. It is just a completely different world and with a completely different breed of drivers. So while they may get to experience some F1 components, these super cars don't even resemble remotely F1 cars.
CA
February 2, 2013, 8:25 am
May 7, 2013, 11:26 pm
I don't think the IS will doom the 3 Series, but according to C&D it should certainly give it a run for its money...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFnrk4Zjds0
For the first poster who said it was about as fun as riding an elevator, I don't think so.
May 8, 2013, 1:23 am
I flipped through the Car and Driver article. The Lexus won over the BMW. BMW's numb electric, not hydraulic, steering was to blame.
May 8, 2013, 7:43 am
don't kid yourselves, Lexus makes boring cars, always have, always will. It takes them $400,000 to make a fun car.
May 8, 2013, 8:44 am
For a moment, forget about Lexus. Is BMW's steering improved or is hydraulic better?
May 8, 2013, 9:34 am
Formula to keep readers engaged in your magazine:
Part 1 - Do a first drive article praising the car and find one critical item you are concerned about. Suggest that perhaps said critical item will be fixed as you are driving a pre-production car. Splash first drive headline across the top edge of the cover.
Part 2 - Feature said car in a 1 on 1 comparison test with the current darling of the class. Make sure it beats the car or comes close. Make points which contradict both the first drive and previous reviews of the comparison car. Wonder out loud if the current industry leader is losing its luster. Advertise this as front page news.
Part 3 - Do an 8 car comparison test inviting inferior competitors which hardly compete with the top three cars in the comparison. Again contradict yourself by having the industry darling win the comparison, claim it wasn't even close and place the new rival in 4th place.
This will happen with the IS
May 8, 2013, 11:18 am
Handling? Check. Efficient and powerful? Check. Lousy tires? Check. Steering feel? Check, please."
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mw-328i-page-6
Unfortunately at the moment it is one of the worst in this segment.
May 8, 2013, 1:47 pm
I suppose a Japanese psychiatrist once employed by Toyota was tasked with selling their Mercedes Benz knockoff to gullible Americans.
"Call it Lexus" was his solution, "it will remind the Americans of luxury!"
What is up with Lexus' signature "fat lady" grill I will never understand... It's fugly!
May 8, 2013, 2:15 pm
Part 1 - Do a first drive article praising the car and find one critical item you are concerned about. Suggest that perhaps said critical item will be fixed as you are driving a pre-production car. Splash first drive headline across the top edge of the cover.
Part 2 - Feature said car in a 1 on 1 comparison test with the current darling of the class. Make sure it beats the car or comes close. Make points which contradict both the first drive and previous reviews of the comparison car. Wonder out loud if the current industry leader is losing its luster. Advertise this as front page news.
Part 3 - Do an 8 car comparison test inviting inferior competitors which hardly compete with the top three cars in the comparison. Again contradict yourself by having the industry darling win the comparison, claim it wasn't even close and place the new rival in 4th place.
This will happen with the IS
May 8, 2013, 2:16 pm
Handling? Check. Efficient and powerful? Check. Lousy tires? Check. Steering feel? Check, please."
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mw-328i-page-6
Unfortunately at the moment it is one of the worst in this segment.
May 8, 2013, 2:23 pm
May 8, 2013, 2:26 pm
If we have learned nothing else here on Bimmerfest we have learned.
1. When BMW wins a magazine comparo it is because expert car savvy journalists recognize the superiority of BMW products.
2. When BMW loses a magazine Comparo it is because the magazine staff are a bunch of corrupt liars who were bribed into voting for a car that they all knew was vastly inferior to BMW products.
The bottom line is that that the F30 suspension and steering have almost universally criticized in the automotive press. I haven't seen any reviews that panned the car as a whole and some aspects of the F30 such as the new 4 cylinder engine and the 8 speed automatic have received almost universal praise. From all indiacations the F30 is n excellent car and a step forward from the E9x in many ways, but apparently not in all ways.
It appears that once BMW went to RFTs on the 3 Series they have had a hard time getting a balance between ride quality and performance. BMW is not the only manufacturer that is getting criticized for the feel of the electric power steering. The electric power steering on the new Porsche 911 has also received mixed reviews. In the ratings the BMW power train came in first (with the engine and transmission getting 10s - the highest possible rating) but the chassis ratings were last.
The Car and Driver article said: "Bumps that the Lexus absorbs and that the Cadillac shrugs off with a single succinct compression and rebound make the BMW pitch and roll and fight to stay on line". And the test car was equipped with the M-Sport package. They also said of the 335i "When engaged it is superbly balanced".
The bottom line is that all three are very good cars and each had areas they excelled but I would not discount the fact that the BMW was rated as less "fun to drive" than the other two. That does not mean that the F30 is not fun to drive but it does indicate that BMW has perhaps lost the edge that they once held in that area,
And no, the IS will not doom the 3 Series. The 3 Series is selling very well and will continue to sell very well and the vast majority of those who purchase one will not regret it.
CA
May 8, 2013, 2:32 pm
The only thing I've learned here is that Lexus' are re-badged Toyota's.
May 8, 2013, 2:34 pm
CA
May 8, 2013, 2:37 pm
CA
May 8, 2013, 2:37 pm
Oh, and he added that his wife's E90 335 would go airborne after hitting the cigarette.
May 8, 2013, 2:48 pm
Oh, and he added that his wife's E90 335 would go airborne after hitting the cigarette.
May 8, 2013, 2:50 pm
Oh, and he added that his wife's E90 335 would go airborne after hitting the cigarette.
Road feel is a good thing but an overly stiff suspension is not. I would like to see C&D do the comparo again with an F30 with DHP.
CA
May 8, 2013, 3:09 pm
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...ison-tests.pdf
It was bested by the Infinity, MB and Audi. Most recently and importantly you can also add the IS and ATS to that list.
May 8, 2013, 3:22 pm
May 8, 2013, 3:25 pm
Oh, and he added that his wife's E90 335 would go airborne after hitting the cigarette.
May 8, 2013, 4:49 pm
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...ison-tests.pdf
It was bested by the Infinity, MB and Audi. Most recently and importantly you can also add the IS and ATS to that list.
Car and Driver is worthless. They were worthless back when they picked BMWs first as well.
May 8, 2013, 4:57 pm
The IS instrument cluster is pretty cool though. It's straight from the LF-A.
May 8, 2013, 4:59 pm
CA
May 8, 2013, 5:17 pm
Car and Driver is worthless. They were worthless back when they picked BMWs first as well.
May 8, 2013, 5:20 pm
Road feel is a good thing but an overly stiff suspension is not. I would like to see C&D do the comparo again with an F30 with DHP.
CA
May 8, 2013, 5:24 pm
May 8, 2013, 5:26 pm
May 8, 2013, 5:30 pm
May 8, 2013, 5:34 pm
May 8, 2013, 5:35 pm
Car and Driver was very influential because it was so well written and because of the unique viewpoint it had viewing cars not just as pieces of machinery but as cultural icons,
CA
May 8, 2013, 7:58 pm
EVO and CAR are good cause they will crap on a car they don't like, they're beholden to their readers, not their advertisers. And yes, they crap on cars like the IS or G35.
They raved about the 1994 Dodge Neon. What a POS that was:
Great performance, great spaciousness, great fun, great price.
Lows:
Mere niggles-no storage in the doors, rear windows open halfway.
Verdict:
This is the winning small car Lee Iacocca said couldn't be built for America.
May 9, 2013, 8:57 am
EVO and CAR are good cause they will crap on a car they don't like, they're beholden to their readers, not their advertisers. And yes, they crap on cars like the IS or G35.
They raved about the 1994 Dodge Neon. What a POS that was:
May 9, 2013, 9:29 am
May 9, 2013, 10:33 am
May 9, 2013, 12:03 pm
When Dodge was their sponsor (Mazda is now) the Skip Barber Driving and Racing School used Dodge Neon SRTs. They were rather bare bones but a lot of fun to drive.
CA
May 9, 2013, 1:14 pm
"It's hard to criticize a well-priced car that can smoke a number of higher-priced sports cars (the Honda S2000 and Nissan 350Z come to mind). Dodge, through its aftermarket parts distributor, Mopar, also offers a bunch of performance enhancements for the SRT-4, from suspension bits to turbo-upgrade kits."
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take-road-test
May 9, 2013, 1:19 pm
"It's hard to criticize a well-priced car that can smoke a number of higher-priced sports cars (the Honda S2000 and Nissan 350Z come to mind). Dodge, through its aftermarket parts distributor, Mopar, also offers a bunch of performance enhancements for the SRT-4, from suspension bits to turbo-upgrade kits."
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take-road-test
May 9, 2013, 1:54 pm
May 9, 2013, 2:22 pm
May 9, 2013, 2:44 pm
May 9, 2013, 2:52 pm
The Neon may seem like a POS now, but it was the K Car of the 90's, keeping Chrysler alive and it was a competitive small car. ACRs for example were known to be very good autox cars.
May 9, 2013, 9:50 pm
May 9, 2013, 11:05 pm
Just got the June issue today.
May 10, 2013, 12:24 am
Where can I subscribe? I hear they're working on the insiders guide to Walmart parking lots.
May 10, 2013, 12:14 pm
Where can I subscribe? I hear they're working on the insiders guide to Walmart parking lots.