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Will the 2014 Lexus IS doom the F30 3er?!

44K views 195 replies 62 participants last post by  408Racer 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
2014 Lexus IS

OK, I just chose that title to stir up trouble. :bigpimp:

Just watched video of it being introduced at the NAIAS and had to post....OMG that thing is absolutely butt ugly!! Seriously. What in the world is Lexus thinking?!



Here's the video. It wasn't the photos that I first saw. It was the car in motion in this video. The proportions are just horrible.
 

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#18 ·
Lexus engineers claim they have engineered this car from the ground up for better handling and performance, and it does seem they have been having some success in this regard.

For example, many, many reviewers agree that the Lexus GS is a very worthy competitor to the current 5 series, with equal or better handling, but much better reliability.

Not sure how you can pan this car when you haven't driven it....:tsk:

I agree the front end on the F-sport is pretty ugly, the non-f sport model is fine.

But the interior, especially the quality of materials, is head and shoulders above the current three series (I just sat in both yesterday at Detroit Auto show, press preview).

Plus, this car will be much more reliable than its German counterparts.

Probably won't out handle the F30, but is much, much closer, as is the new Infiniti, and the new Cadillacs, and likely new products from Acura as well.

BMW has its hands full, and again many have said it has slipped a bit, especially with the current 5 series....

And Audi sales are going gangbusters....

So my point is, this competition is good for all of us....because the days of Lexus building cars for 70 year olds is changing.

If you haven't driven the new GS, try it....you might not like the styling, but every single review I've read pits it very favorably against the 5 series.

The same may be true with this IS...and we know that the CTS and ATS, even if you don't like their styling, have proven to be reliable, good handling and economical choices to the 3 series, whereas in the past they were a joke.

Things are changing....give Lexus a bit of credit....the new IS is much better than you may think.

Same goes for the new Infiniti.....the are struggling with brand identity, true, but if they hit a home run on a design, and offer it cheaper and more reliably, which they can do better than BMW.....BMW could be in real trouble.

They are getting pressure from all angles, including Audi, the Asians, etc.

I'll bet MB even steals some entry level buyers with its new CLA, although that's FWD.
 
#88 ·
It all started with the 2009 Acura TL and its hideous looking "beak-like" front grille. I thought that was just about the ugliest looking grille I ever saw--until Lexus came up with this one. If Lexus intended to make that awful TL grille appear better by comparison, I think they succeeded. :(
 
#12 · (Edited)
Lexus has a real bad identity crisis.

Through the years; Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porshe have always managed to maintain a signature look.

Lexus, even though they make great cars, has always blended in with the generic look of Asian imports: Toyota, Nissan, Mazda...

This is their attempt at coming up with a signature look. Terrible!
 
#22 ·
Lexus has a real bad identity crisis.

Through the years; Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porshe have always managed to maintain a signature look.

Lexus, even though they make great cars, has always blended in with the generic look of Asian imports: Toyota, Nissan, Mazda...

This is their attempt at coming up with a signature look. Terrible!
When Lexus first entered the market they made decent looking cars,


The LS400 was somewhat generic and had obviously been influenced by Mercedes but was not what I would consider ugly.



IMO the SC Coupe, which was introduced in 1992, was the best looking car Lexus ever made (I am probably biased because I had one exactly like the one in the picture above). That car felt like it had been carved out of a solid block of steel and was a pleasure to drive. It had a very smooth inline 6 engine, a 5 Speed manual transmission and a suspension that had a great balance between comfort and handling,

But that was then and now is now and Lexus is not making anything that appeals to me.

CA
 
#14 · (Edited)
I think the back end actually looks great...I like how the 'swoop' ties into the side

The front...yeeesh....it will be one of the few cars that actually looks better with a license plate to break up the huge predator grill. Way too Batmobile for this 44 year old.

Color will be important too....black will look far better than white as the grill wont be so pronounced. The gray in the pics already looks twice as nice as the white.

Coming from an '08 IS 350 - which I loved.

The new interior looks fantastic! Way different than German/European...but that has always been the case with Japanese cars. LOVE the LCD gauges....love the shifter....love the center stack and console.

I have zero regrets going from IS to 335 IX....but the IS is a very good car.
 
#15 ·
I think the back end actually looks great...I like how the 'swoop' ties into the side

The front...yeeesh....it will be one of the few cars that actually looks better with a license plate to break up the huge predator grill. .
Yes, I was thinking the same thing. The side and rear profiles aren't really that bad, but the front is just horrible.
 
#47 ·
I think your statement, although short, is very important.

Not all cars within a segment truly compete with each other. Consumers shopping in the "3" segment won't really consider all cars equally because they really aren't all the same even though they might be similar in size and price.

Cars have a design language and a personality and consumers typically identify with a particular design language and personality. Within the "3" segment I think the cars are grouped into sub-groups: 3 series, C class, A4 and ATS are close enough in design language and personality that consumers will cross shop them. Infiniti and Lexus are close enough to cross shop them. But how often will and Infiniti buyer seriously cross shop a 3 series, and vice versa? I think thats less common.

I guess what I'm saying is, Infiniti and Lexus are probably going to end up battling each other for a small piece of the "3" segment, while BMW, Audi, Merc and Cadillac will battle for the lion's share.
 
#20 ·
Lexus is going down a slippery here with their new cooperate front end. It sort of remind of the same stubbornness that Acura had with their ugly grille. Buyers need to vote with their wallet, thats the only way Lexus will listen. The new GS, ES and now the IS are some of the uglist new design on the market and this is coming from a once loyal Lexus owner.
 
#24 ·
who is calling this the latest 3 killer?

I think that Lexus caters to a different buyer than BMW.....

If you check both sides of the coin, a lot of the people on the Lexus forum like the new IS, and almost everyone on the BMW forum hates the new IS, and Lexus in general.

In fact, most here have no interest in Lexus, Acura and Infiniti, and vice versa.

I like Lexus because of their stellar reliability, and I have had some problems with every one of the four BMWs I have had....same goes for Acura and Infiniti....

And even Cadillac.

There is no point to these discussions, most of you would be very very hard pressed to ever consider a Lexus/Acura/Infiniti, Cadillac, etc...

Just keep buying the BMWs, if that is what makes you happy. Nothing wrong with that, to each his own.

BMW customers just don't like the Asian counterparts....(but it is amusing to me how many of you seem to have a Toyota, Honda, Nissan etc. as a second car, kid hauler, minivan, SUV etc etc...) :rofl:

You like the reliability when it favors you, but not in the luxury segment I guess.
 
#23 ·
I found the currrent IS (now fairly aged) to have the best interior in class in terms of driver's seat luxury, sportiness, and functionality on top of quality of materials. BMW took a nice step down on quality of materials in class with the f30 IMHO. The reason I never took a serious look at the IS was the joke of the backseat and the lack of a manual transmission.

Nonetheless, Lexus' 3.6 liter was always cream of the crop for n/a engines. Guess we'll see what they do here.

I find the exterior to be decent. I used to think the f30 front and rear ends were ugly; now I like the front and ignore the rear. I used to think the e60 was ugly. I used to think the "then new" Audi grill to be ugly on the a4 and a6. The new mercedes e-class front end? Used to be ugly to me...

I could go on. My point is simply that I no longer take my own initial reaction as something that's going to hold up.
 
#34 · (Edited)
I find the exterior to be decent. I used to think the f30 front and rear ends were ugly; now I like the front and ignore the rear. I used to think the e60 was ugly. I used to think the "then new" Audi grill to be ugly on the a4 and a6. The new mercedes e-class front end? Used to be ugly to me...

I could go on. My point is simply that I no longer take my own initial reaction as something that's going to hold up.
Well, for me I like the current IS design pretty well. When I did the BMW Olympic 3 Series drive back in August I actually preferred to IS250 over the Merc C250 and the Audi A4. Its engine and transmission felt well matched, like they got along together. Unlike the powertrains in the Merc and Audi, which felt like they'd rather not have to be working together.

I've liked the F30 design from the beginning and I still do. I always liked the E60 exterior design, but I do not like the pre-LCI E60 interior. The LCI interior update made all the difference in the E60. I still think the current Audi front end treatment is butt ugly after however many years it's been. I think the entire Merc E Class exterior design is ugly. The previous Merc E Class was quite beautiful. I thought the current 7er kidney grill was too big the first time I saw it and I still do.

For me, my initial impressions don't generally change much.

who is calling this the latest 3 killer?

I think that Lexus caters to a different buyer than BMW.....

If you check both sides of the coin, a lot of the people on the Lexus forum like the new IS, and almost everyone on the BMW forum hates the new IS, and Lexus in general.

In fact, most here have no interest in Lexus, Acura and Infiniti, and vice versa.

I like Lexus because of their stellar reliability, and I have had some problems with every one of the four BMWs I have had....same goes for Acura and Infiniti....

And even Cadillac.

There is no point to these discussions, most of you would be very very hard pressed to ever consider a Lexus/Acura/Infiniti, Cadillac, etc...

Just keep buying the BMWs, if that is what makes you happy. Nothing wrong with that, to each his own.

BMW customers just don't like the Asian counterparts....(but it is amusing to me how many of you seem to have a Toyota, Honda, Nissan etc. as a second car, kid hauler, minivan, SUV etc etc...) :rofl:

You like the reliability when it favors you, but not in the luxury segment I guess.
As I mention above, I actually preferred the IS over the Merc C and the Audi A4 when I did the BMW 3 Series comparison drive in August. In 2010, when I attended a BMW driving event for the new F10 5er I thought the Lexus GS350 was a significantly better performer than the new Merc E350, which was an absolute embarrassment to Mercedes.

I attended a Cadillac CTS-V Series driving event in October and found the CTS-V to be a great performer. It doesn't have the German feel that I prefer, but I would have to say it performs every bit as well as any ///M car I've driven.

I have a BMW bias, but I pretty much call 'em as I see 'em.
 
#29 ·
The early Lexus were build like a tank, much like the early Mercedes and the current BMW 5 and 7 series. The quality of Lexus have really gone down hill recently. There lastest Lexus models feels like its made of tin and they are full of rattles, I guess that is a by-product of a aggressive cost cutting program.
 
#32 ·
Can you please post a link to your source that Lexus quality has gone downhill, they have aggressive cost cutting and are full of rattles?

I am not a big consumer reports fan, but pick whatever source you want, i.e. JD Power, True Delta, CR, etc. and show me where Lexus quality is in the toilet as you claim.

Here's an article from Oct, 2012....

******************************

And the winner is ... Japan.

Japanese brands took seven of the top 10 spots in Consumer Reports' annual reliability rankings, pushing aside their U.S. and European rivals. Toyota Motor Co.'s Scion, Lexus and Toyota brands took the top three spots and the Toyota Prius C, a subcompact hybrid, got the best overall score. Mazda, Subaru and Honda were close behind.

The rankings, released Monday, predict the reliability of 2013 model-year vehicles based on surveys of Consumer Reports' readers. This year, 800,000 people submitted information on 1.2 million vehicles from the 2010 to 2012 model years. The rankings are critical for auto companies, since Americans frequently cite Consumer Reports as a main source of car-buying advice.

Ford and Lincoln, once top performers, plummeted to the bottom of this year's rankings because of persistent problems with glitchy touch screens and bumpy transmissions. Ford was also hurt because three normally reliable models - the Ford Escape, Ford Fusion and Lincoln MKZ - are all new for 2013, so Consumer Reports couldn't predict their reliability.

Also near the bottom were Chrysler Group's Chrysler, Dodge and Ram brands, which have been getting a fast makeover since partnering with Italy's Fiat three years ago. Consumer Reports says models with more features and more powerful engines, like the V-8 versions of the Chrysler 300 and Jeep Grand Cherokee - had the most issues.

The best-performing U.S. brand was Cadillac, from General Motors Co.

Volkswagen AG's luxury Audi brand made the biggest strides in this year's survey, climbing 18 spots to No. 8. It was the best-performing European brand. Glitch-free new models like the A7 sedan got high marks from Jake Fisher, Consumer Reports' director of automotive testing.

"They're out-BMWing BMW, easily, in terms of the driving dynamics," he said.

Electric cars also got impressive results. The all-electric Nissan Leaf was Nissan's best performer, partly because its electric motor has fewer parts than a gasoline engine, Fisher said. But the Chevrolet Volt - an extended-range electric car that has both an electric system and a conventional engine and transmission - also got the highest score of any GM vehicle.

"GM took a lot of painstaking time to develop that car," Fisher said.

The Volt was recalled earlier this year because vehicles crash-tested by the government showed a risk of fire when coolant leaked from the battery. But Consumer Reports' rankings don't reflect that, since the magazine only asks respondents to note issues that have happened on their own vehicles. Only vehicles with 100 or more responses are included. Among 2012 models, the magazine got the most responses for the Honda CR-V, with nearly 3,000.

Fisher said the magazine is getting about the same number of complaints as it did five years ago. But issues with electronics, audio and touch-screen systems have increased while complaints about mechanical problems are down.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/to...bility-survey-article-1.1194707#ixzz2IFWT91kA
 
#59 ·
I have owned a few recent Lexus cars, a 2004 ES and a 2009 RX. Both passed 150k miles, nearly trouble free. Sold them for a very good price.
No major rattles to report on either.
Have a 2011 Toyota Highlander SUV for the wife, its been bulletproof for first 40k miles, not a single rattle....:dunno:
don't get me wrong, i still prefer teh F30 to the new IS.
All I'm saying is that I think its premature to bash its handling when none of us have driven it. I sat in the one at the Auto show (press event) since I live in Detroit, and I preferred the interior over BMWs.
It is at least a move in the right direction for Lexus.
Bashing Lexus on reliability, well, I just don't understand that. That has not been my personal experience, and is contrary to every single report on reliability, whether it be JD Power, Consumer Reports, True Delta, etc.
This is borne out in resale value as well, if Lexus cars are filled with problems and rattles, why is their resale so high? Just doesn't make sense.
German cars still handle better, have better feel and designs that age more gracefully (except for the new Lexus GS, which seems to out perform the 5 series).
Have you ever compare your ES350 to a F10 535i? or compare your RX350 or your highlander to a X5? The German cars feels more solid compare to the current Japanese cars. That was not always the case, the early Lexus were built like a tank compare to today's Lexus.
I think I was one of the few people in here who said it was too early to bash the handling of the new IS and I also said if the IS is a better handling version of the new GS, it might out perform the F30.
I never bash on Lexus' reliability, all I said was the new Lexus does not feel solid. There are more complaints on the Lexus forums about rattles than BMW.
 
#30 · (Edited)
#39 ·
My 335i was fairly reliable but the N54 is a problematic engine. Just had $3800 worth of extended warranty work done at 72K miles (wastegates, water pump, 2nd oil leak, and now after all of that work I have a very rough idle that I've not been back to the dealer to have checked). I want Japanese reliability but there's nothing out there that will drive like my E90.
 
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