BMW US bound diesels models for 2013

by Bimmerfest.com Member - d geek on February 3, 2013, 9:53 am
Availability of BMW diesels in US this year

The following will go into production in July:
  • 328d
  • 328d xDrive
  • 328d xDrive Sportswagen
  • 535d
  • 535d xDrive
  • And in Dec the next x5d xDrive

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=674004



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134 responses to BMW US bound diesels models for 2013

AutoUnion commented:
February 3, 2013, 10:17 am

I can't begin to say how awesome this is. BMW is finally listening to its dealers here. A RWD 535 and 328d won't sell in most parts of the US.

Good job BMW.
UncleJ commented:
February 3, 2013, 11:28 am

Where's the X3??????
d geek commented:
February 3, 2013, 11:41 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleJ View Post
Where's the X3??????
Info shared last July indicates that it will be here in C?Y2014
rmorin49 commented:
February 3, 2013, 12:41 pm

A 535dxdrive might just tempt me back into the diesel family. Time will tell.
gesoffen commented:
February 4, 2013, 7:11 am

I know I'm shouting into a vacuum here but: BMW NA - F31 328d, 6MT with RWD please!!!!!! If you don't give me an MT, I don't give you my money.
01Byte commented:
February 4, 2013, 9:28 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by gesoffen View Post
I know I'm shouting into a vacuum here but: BMW NA - F31 328d, 6MT with RWD please!!!!!! If you don't give me an MT, I don't give you my money.
You and me both. However, if the current trend continues, I don't have much faith that this will happen.
UncleJ commented:
February 4, 2013, 11:30 am

If they wait until CY14 to bring in the X3d then a lot of sales are going to be lost to the GLK 250 blue tech, Q5 and Tiguan TDI's.
cruise_bone commented:
February 4, 2013, 11:37 am

I am excited and quite frankly shocked to see that there will be a 328d xdrive. I may have to consider this vehicle even w/out a MT if the torque in the 4-cyl engine is sufficient to still give an exciting driving feel. I will also look at the 535d xdrive and X3d once it is available.
F32Fleet commented:
February 4, 2013, 1:24 pm

Now all the Jetta drivers who complained about the lack of a wagon will just complain about the cost. I can hear there blathering now. ......


Only concern I have is the Bosch HPFP.
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F32Fleet commented:
February 4, 2013, 1:32 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by 01Byte View Post
You and me both. However, if the current trend continues, I don't have much faith that this will happen.
Ever driven a manual diesel? It's like short shifting a gasser.

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UncleJ commented:
February 4, 2013, 3:43 pm

Wasn't it the Passat drivers who complained about the lack of a diesel sportwagen? The Jetta folks have quite a nice little wagon, but it sadly is just too small for my needs. The Passat OTOH would fit the bill quite nicely -- since we are not allowed to get the Tig diesel or the Amarok trucklet!
AutoUnion commented:
February 4, 2013, 4:04 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleJ View Post
Wasn't it the Passat drivers who complained about the lack of a diesel sportwagen? The Jetta folks have quite a nice little wagon, but it sadly is just too small for my needs. The Passat OTOH would fit the bill quite nicely -- since we are not allowed to get the Tig diesel or the Amarok trucklet!
Yeah, a larger diesel wagon is what Passat drivers wanted, especially since the Passat variant was sold here until very recently (when the new Passat went US/China-only)
AutoUnion commented:
February 4, 2013, 4:04 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleJ View Post
If they wait until CY14 to bring in the X3d then a lot of sales are going to be lost to the GLK 250 blue tech, Q5 and Tiguan TDI's.
They're waiting until the LCI, as was said in the most recent BMW dealer meeting

GLK and Q5 TDI will be out by year end. And looking at Canadian pricing, the GLK250 BT 4Matic will be a bargain because it comes in at a lower price than the base V6!
AutoUnion commented:
February 4, 2013, 4:06 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl View Post
Ever driven a manual diesel? It's like short shifting a gasser.
Have you driven the recent VW CRD 2.0TDIs? Experience is quite fun.

I prefer the DSG myself though.
F32Fleet commented:
February 4, 2013, 4:12 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleJ View Post
Wasn't it the Passat drivers who complained about the lack of a diesel sportwagen? The Jetta folks have quite a nice little wagon, but it sadly is just too small for my needs. The Passat OTOH would fit the bill quite nicely -- since we are not allowed to get the Tig diesel or the Amarok trucklet!
Ya I wasn't clear. It was a complaint regarding the E90 335d coming from the Jetta Sportwagon folks.
henrycyao commented:
February 5, 2013, 12:59 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
They're waiting until the LCI, as was said in the most recent BMW dealer meeting

GLK and Q5 TDI will be out by year end. And looking at Canadian pricing, the GLK250 BT 4Matic will be a bargain because it comes in at a lower price than the base V6!
Wow, cheaper than base V6 and better in fuel economy. That is a major plus in my book.

This probably means that the X3 is going to be offered as 4 cylinder version instead of both. I guess BMW is gunning for efficiency in this round of diesel introduction.
F32Fleet commented:
February 5, 2013, 8:18 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Have you driven the recent VW CRD 2.0TDIs? Experience is quite fun.

I prefer the DSG myself though.
Not the new but I've driven 4 cyl diesels in the past which were manuals. t. It's fun but not the same as a gasser. I think gassers would be disappointed.

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Axel61 commented:
February 5, 2013, 8:56 am

I personally would look into an AMAROK, I would trade in my C230 for it and let my wife drive the 335d
Mark K commented:
February 5, 2013, 6:47 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by gesoffen View Post
I know I'm shouting into a vacuum here but: BMW NA - F31 328d, 6MT with RWD please!!!!!! If you don't give me an MT, I don't give you my money.
Do you need directions to your closest VW dealership? That's what I did. Will be getting my new Golf TDI in June. Bye-bye BMW ... and happy profit hunting. While it lasts.
Mark K commented:
February 5, 2013, 6:48 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl View Post
Now all the Jetta drivers who complained about the lack of a wagon will just complain about the cost. I can hear there blathering now. ......
Nope, I will buy it for 50k. With MT only, though.
d geek commented:
February 5, 2013, 6:56 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
Do you need directions to your closest VW dealership? That's what I did. Will be getting my new Golf TDI in June. Bye-bye BMW ... and happy profit hunting. While it lasts.
Mark- why so bitter?
The 328d should be available in Aug. Much better HP and torque than the Golf. Performance will blow the Golf away. Fuel economy should be very close.

Two months to wait for much more car...
SteVTEC commented:
February 5, 2013, 7:53 pm

Bummed that it's not a 335d, but yeah a 4-cylinder 328d that will really put out some impressive mileage numbers makes a lot more sense I'm afraid. Glad to see you'll be able to get the 35d motor in the 5er though, that's pretty sweet. And they're continuing the X5d. Overall excellent news!
rmorin49 commented:
February 5, 2013, 8:36 pm

Will the 535d be offered in an Xdrive? With the sport package or M package and a manual tranny this would be a fantastic machine.
d geek commented:
February 5, 2013, 8:49 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmorin49 View Post
Will the 535d be offered in an Xdrive? With the sport package or M package and a manual tranny this would be a fantastic machine.
yes. see post #1
but all diesels are only auto trans. Still fantastic machines in my opinion
d geek commented:
February 5, 2013, 8:59 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteVTEC View Post
... Glad to see you'll be able to get the 35d motor in the 5er though, that's pretty sweet. And they're continuing the X5d. Overall excellent news!
I'm still puzzled by the '535d' nomenclature that they've chosen. The info 'leaked' last July puts the output of the 6 cyl d being brought over in the 5er right at the engine in the 530d (255 hp). I'm baffled why they would go down in power if it were actually the dual turbo set up in the euro 535d, which is now up to 316 hp.

The engine in the N American 2009-11 335d was 265hp while the Euro version was 286hp. Why would they go up in the Euro version of the new 535d and bring a weaker engine in the N American version?

Personally I'd prefer the single turbo version used in the 530d. Great performance and fuel economy.
bayoucity commented:
February 5, 2013, 11:26 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
I'm still puzzled by the '535d' nomenclature that they've chosen. The info 'leaked' last July puts the output of the 6 cyl d being brought over in the 5er right at the engine in the 530d (255 hp). I'm baffled why they would go down in power if it were actually the dual turbo set up in the euro 535d, which is now up to 316 hp.

The engine in the N American 2009-11 335d was 265hp while the Euro version was 286hp. Why would they go up in the Euro version of the new 535d and bring a weaker engine in the N American version?

Personally I'd prefer the single turbo version used in the 530d. Great performance and fuel economy.
I always believe it has to do with emission control & EPA certification.
d geek commented:
February 5, 2013, 11:45 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
I always believe it has to do with emission control & EPA certification.
Well Euro 6 emission controls can be met with the blue performance setup with no loss of power in the Euro vehicles. That standard is very close to our Tier 2 Bin 5 standard, so a 60 hp loss does not make any sense to me.

Since they are playing games with the 3er (320d being renamed to 328d), I would not be surprised to have them rename a 530d to 535d for this market. Keeping it simple for us?
d geek commented:
February 5, 2013, 11:45 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
I always believe it has to do with emission control & EPA certification.
Well Euro 6 emission controls can be met with the blue performance setup with no loss of power in the Euro vehicles. That standard is very close to our Tier 2 Bin 5 standard, so a 60 hp loss does not make any sense to me.

Since they are playing games with the 3er nomenclature (320d being renamed to 328d), I would not be surprised to have them rename a 530d to 535d for this market. Keeping it simple for us?
Mark K commented:
February 6, 2013, 8:17 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
Mark- why so bitter?
The 328d should be available in Aug. Much better HP and torque than the Golf. Performance will blow the Golf away. Fuel economy should be very close.

Two months to wait for much more car...
It's a shame, but you can put it squarely on BMWNA's doorstep. You are not releasing cold fusion reactor that will make you Lord of the planet Earth for crying out loud! It's a car, that's all. Can you tell us EXACTLY what you are planning to do?

VW, for example, announced a year ago that all vehicles in the lineup will have diesel option. Some of those vehicles will not be out until NEXT year (CC) - but I already know what will be available.

Then, of course, there's "sweep it under the rug" question ... will we get MT? Is that so hard to say clearly and not using lawyerese in some obscure press release? In any case, I'm not buying a vehicle without MT and chances are 95% we won't get it.

So, all things considered ... yes I'm bitter. I would like to have a BMW and would pay for it without moaning that slower and less powerful diesel has 2,500 or more premium. On one condition, though - it has to be exactly as I want it.
finnbmw commented:
February 6, 2013, 8:40 am

Mark, manual transmissions are not popular in the US and never will be, so unfortunately you are in the minority. My first car was a MT, the rest have been automatic and I've never looked back. Whenever I go back overseas and have to drive a manual, I curse the unnecessary complexity of changing gear, i.e. pushing down the clutch and and changing gear. Especially in stop-and-go traffic.

The one car where I think a MT is warranted is in a sporty gasoline powered car, where you get the most out of the engine by keeping the revs high. In a diesel engine, where the oomph is achieved at low rpms, an automatic is ideal. IMO.
F32Fleet commented:
February 6, 2013, 9:00 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
I'm still puzzled by the '535d' nomenclature that they've chosen. The info 'leaked' last July puts the output of the 6 cyl d being brought over in the 5er right at the engine in the 530d (255 hp). I'm baffled why they would go down in power if it were actually the dual turbo set up in the euro 535d, which is now up to 316 hp.

The engine in the N American 2009-11 335d was 265hp while the Euro version was 286hp. Why would they go up in the Euro version of the new 535d and bring a weaker engine in the N American version?

Personally I'd prefer the single turbo version used in the 530d. Great performance and fuel economy.
Afraid to take sales from 35i or 28i?

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d geek commented:
February 6, 2013, 10:19 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl View Post
Afraid to take sales from 35i or 28i?

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Quite possible. Or they are playing around with the name to justify pricing. In Europe, a 320d with blue performance option and auto trans is priced the same as a 328i. Thy might use the 328d name to justify pricing it above the 328i (before offerring any eco-credit or the like).
d geek commented:
February 6, 2013, 10:23 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
It's a shame, but you can put it squarely on BMWNA's doorstep. You are not releasing cold fusion reactor that will make you Lord of the planet Earth for crying out loud! It's a car, that's all. Can you tell us EXACTLY what you are planning to do?

VW, for example, announced a year ago that all vehicles in the lineup will have diesel option. Some of those vehicles will not be out until NEXT year (CC) - but I already know what will be available.

Then, of course, there's "sweep it under the rug" question ... will we get MT? Is that so hard to say clearly and not using lawyerese in some obscure press release? In any case, I'm not buying a vehicle without MT and chances are 95% we won't get it.

So, all things considered ... yes I'm bitter. I would like to have a BMW and would pay for it without moaning that slower and less powerful diesel has 2,500 or more premium. On one condition, though - it has to be exactly as I want it.
Going by what was shown at the internal meeting last july (http://www.bimmerfile.com/2012/07/13...-coming-to-us/) only auto trans will be offerred for the d.

Slower and less powerful than what?

Good luck with the VWs. Watch out for that HPFP...
3ismagic# commented:
February 6, 2013, 10:56 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbmw View Post
Mark, manual transmissions are not popular in the US and never will be, so unfortunately you are in the minority. My first car was a MT, the rest have been automatic and I've never looked back. Whenever I go back overseas and have to drive a manual, I curse the unnecessary complexity of changing gear, i.e. pushing down the clutch and and changing gear. Especially in stop-and-go traffic.

The one car where I think a MT is warranted is in a sporty gasoline powered car, where you get the most out of the engine by keeping the revs high. In a diesel engine, where the oomph is achieved at low rpms, an automatic is ideal. IMO.
Yes one man's unnecessary complexity is another man's thrilling engagement between man and machine.

I don't begrudge your choice, just wish we had one to make.
Pierre Louis commented:
February 6, 2013, 10:59 am

Seems like bringing back an F40 335d to the US would pose the same problem for BMW: a car a bit too close to the M3 in performance at 2/3 the price and double the fuel economy. Europe is a different market for diesels and they are used to, perhaps, the distinction and having the very powerful diesels.

I'm not saying the two are equal by any means, but with the driving environment of North America and how most people use their cars (in traffic with an automatic transmission favoring low end torque, upcoming CAFE requirements, etc.) the idea of a much more fuel efficient diesel is perhaps a better marketing decision.

I for one love to have my cake and eat it too! And yes, I would favor a manual transmission: my experience is that the diesel's low end torque works just fine with it and is just as much fun.

PL
Mark K commented:
February 6, 2013, 12:54 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post

Slower and less powerful than what?

Good luck with the VWs. Watch out for that HPFP...
Slower and less powerful than N20. I was sarcastically parroting the usual compaints from Internet "experts".

I already own 2006 TDI (I know new one has different engine). Very happy with it. But I also bought (not knowing it will be changed) N55 while N54's HPFP failures were all the rage and thing to talk about at VIP parties.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ismagic# View Post
Yes one man's unnecessary complexity is another man's thrilling engagement between man and machine.

I don't begrudge your choice, just wish we had one to make.
Couldn't have said it better. More power to AT, it's the best thing after sliced bread was invented. Just give me the choice NOT to buy it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post
I for one love to have my cake and eat it too! And yes, I would favor a manual transmission: my experience is that the diesel's low end torque works just fine with it and is just as much fun.
Once you are past the obviously ignorant "experts" with their spreadsheets showing ROI considering price of diesel, initial higher cost and fuel cost difference ... blah, blah, blah (which they would flush down the toilet after only one week of actually driving and filling up a diesel car) ... then you hit those who are obviously knowledgeable about the topic, but for life of me I can't understand why high torque on low revs shouldn't be driven with MT.

After all, my N55 has probably 3 TIMES the torque that my TDI outputs at 1,400 rpm, I still have no problem enjoying the drive with MT ...
F32Fleet commented:
February 6, 2013, 2:34 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post
Seems like bringing back an F40 335d to the US would pose the same problem for BMW: a car a bit too close to the M3 in performance at 2/3 the price and double the fuel economy. Europe is a different market for diesels and they are used to, perhaps, the distinction and having the very powerful diesels.

I'm not saying the two are equal by any means, but with the driving environment of North America and how most people use their cars (in traffic with an automatic transmission favoring low end torque, upcoming CAFE requirements, etc.) the idea of a much more fuel efficient diesel is perhaps a better marketing decision.

I for one love to have my cake and eat it too! And yes, I would favor a manual transmission: my experience is that the diesel's low end torque works just fine with it and is just as much fun.

PL
Maybe they will IF the N55 gets bumped to 345 or so hp but that's awfully close to M3 territory.

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F32Fleet commented:
February 6, 2013, 2:47 pm

[QUOTE=Mark K;7363584]".
F32Fleet commented:
February 6, 2013, 4:27 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
..., but for life of me I can't understand why high torque on low revs shouldn't be driven with MT.

After all, my N55 has probably 3 TIMES the torque that my TDI outputs at 1,400 rpm, I still have no problem enjoying the drive with MT ...
Typically high tq with low revs requires more frequent shifting within the speeds which the vehicle is typically driven. This is why i say it's like short shifting a gasser (Naturally aspriated).

Can't drive a 335d manual like you would a M3.
Pierre Louis commented:
February 6, 2013, 6:18 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl View Post
Typically high tq with low revs requires more frequent shifting within the speeds which the vehicle is typically driven. This is why i say it's like short shifting a gasser (Naturally aspriated).

Can't drive a 335d manual like you would a M3.
This is not how I typically drive a manual, especially since I drive for economy. Unless you typically rev to full redline, a diesel can go up to 4500-5000 RPM.

The gear ratios tend to be wider in diesels also, so with a typical gasser, its not unusual to go up or down by 2 gears.

I respect my machinery and don't push it 10/10'ths all the time anyway.

PL
01Byte commented:
February 6, 2013, 7:28 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbmw View Post
Mark, manual transmissions are not popular in the US and never will be, so unfortunately you are in the minority. My first car was a MT, the rest have been automatic and I've never looked back. Whenever I go back overseas and have to drive a manual, I curse the unnecessary complexity of changing gear, i.e. pushing down the clutch and and changing gear. Especially in stop-and-go traffic.

The one car where I think a MT is warranted is in a sporty gasoline powered car, where you get the most out of the engine by keeping the revs high. In a diesel engine, where the oomph is achieved at low rpms, an automatic is ideal. IMO.
I'm 100% with Mark on this one. You are viewing the MT question as one of necessity. While we view it as nothing more than an option (that we get to choose if we wish). What's interesting is that while having options like upgraded sound or HUD are always available regardless of how many people actually order them, the MT option is some kind of voodoo topic. Every time it's always "you don't need it, get an auto". Well, guess what. You don't need a lot of options you get when you order a car. You get them because you want them.

To me (and guys like Mark), being able to choose the transmission type is just another selection of an option that we want.

It's a shame that BMW doesn't see this. Like him, I am slowly being pushed away from the brand because of my love of a manual transmission.
GB commented:
February 6, 2013, 7:39 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by 01Byte View Post
It's a shame that BMW doesn't see this. Like him, I am slowly being pushed away from the brand because of my love of a manual transmission.
Same here. I dumped my troublesome 335d (my first and last car with an auto) for the last of the naturally aspirated e91's wagons with MT. It doesn't looks like a MT will be an option in the future, so hoping it lasts me a while!

Graham
SteVTEC commented:
February 6, 2013, 8:47 pm

Blame the EPA and government red tape for making it extremely cost prohibitive to certify more than a few possible engine and transmission combos per car for sale here in the U.S. Compared to other manufacturers, BMW is already being extremely generous with what they're offering. Shame there's so much red tape, otherwise a lot more options could be offered like diesels and MTs as offered in Europe. BMW has to pick and choose what they know they can sell enough of to justify the significant cost of certifying a powertrain/drivertrain/tranny combo for sale here.
SteVTEC commented:
February 6, 2013, 9:00 pm

Since it's going to be a "328d" here and not a 320d, I wonder if that means we'll be getting the higher spec version of the 2.0L turbodiesel then? The Euro 325d makes 218PS and 450 Nm (332 lb-ft) and hits 0-62 in 6.8s. I know BMW's numbers are all screwy these days but "28d" does imply similar level of performance to other "28" products which are currently at 240hp.
d geek commented:
February 6, 2013, 9:30 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteVTEC View Post
Since it's going to be a "328d" here and not a 320d, I wonder if that means we'll be getting the higher spec version of the 2.0L turbodiesel then? The Euro 325d makes 218PS and 450 Nm (332 lb-ft) and hits 0-62 in 6.8s. I know BMW's numbers are all screwy these days but "28d" does imply similar level of performance to other "28" products which are currently at 240hp.
The 325d hasn't been in production for 5 yrs.

Info on the engine going into the N American F30d is going to be 180hp. That is the 320d
dhake2 commented:
February 6, 2013, 10:01 pm

I would love to have the MT as well. Assume for a moment that the 6MT could handle the torque, what issues would I have trying to put one in the 335d?
1) Would it bolt in? (I think it would)
2) What electronic/computer issues would I encounter?
d geek commented:
February 6, 2013, 10:06 pm

^^^moderator please remove all irrelevant posts from this thread...
SteVTEC commented:
February 6, 2013, 10:27 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
The 325d hasn't been in production for 5 yrs.

Info on the engine going into the N American F30d is going to be 180hp. That is the 320d
http://www.bmw.co.uk/en/new-vehicles...ical-data.html

180hp would be a bummer, but would probably get some pretty impressive fuel mileage!
d geek commented:
February 6, 2013, 10:36 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteVTEC View Post
http://www.bmw.co.uk/en/new-vehicles...ical-data.html

180hp would be a bummer, but would probably get some pretty impressive fuel mileage!
Thanks. I hadn't seen the UK site. bmw.com doesn't show the 325d.

The 325d would indeed be an interesting option...
F32Fleet commented:
February 7, 2013, 8:35 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by 01Byte View Post
I'm 100% with Mark on this one. You are viewing the MT question as one of necessity. While we view it as nothing more than an option (that we get to choose if we wish). What's interesting is that while having options like upgraded sound or HUD are always available regardless of how many people actually order them, the MT option is some kind of voodoo topic. Every time it's always "you don't need it, get an auto". Well, guess what. You don't need a lot of options you get when you order a car. You get them because you want them.

To me (and guys like Mark), being able to choose the transmission type is just another selection of an option that we want.

It's a shame that BMW doesn't see this. Like him, I am slowly being pushed away from the brand because of my love of a manual transmission.
In the past people (myself included) would pick the MT for cost ($1200 for auto), reliability, better mpg , adding the fun factor somewhere in between. Today aside from the fun factor nothing else really holds true. So when someone is emphatic that a car is inadequate due to lack of MT I have diffulty understanding the logic.

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Pierre Louis commented:
February 7, 2013, 8:39 am

I would still say maintenance is still a factor, especially if you keep the car a long time. Automatics like VW's DSG require expensive fluid changes while manual transmissions are apt to last quite a lot longer without an overhaul.

PL
01Byte commented:
February 7, 2013, 8:49 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl View Post
In the past people (myself included) would pick the MT for cost ($1200 for auto), reliability, better mpg , adding the fun factor somewhere in between. Today aside from the fun factor nothing else really holds true. So when someone is emphatic that a car is inadequate due to lack of MT I have diffulty understanding the logic.

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To me, it's always been about the fun factor. I also don't think that any car is more or less adequate simply based on the transmission choice.

Question for you, when you see someone pay $2k for an upgraded sound system or $2k for comfort seats do you also have problems understanding why they felt they needed those options in order to enjoy the car? Or is your view only limited to the manual option?
01Byte commented:
February 7, 2013, 8:52 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
^^^moderator please remove all irrelevant posts from this thread...
SteVTEC commented:
February 7, 2013, 9:29 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl View Post
In the past people (myself included) would pick the MT for cost ($1200 for auto), reliability, better mpg , adding the fun factor somewhere in between. Today aside from the fun factor nothing else really holds true. So when someone is emphatic that a car is inadequate due to lack of MT I have diffulty understanding the logic.

Sent from my MB525 using Bimmer App
Yeah it used to be that if you had an automatic transmission, you were automatically taking like a FULL SECOND penalty in 0-60, along with poorer mileage, drivability, and reliability, not to mention you paid more for the privilege, and were really missing out on what a car and engine were capable of if you didn't get a manual transmission. Those days are long gone now.
finnbmw commented:
February 7, 2013, 11:24 am

I truly get the argument that we should have the option of being able to choose a manual transmission or auto. My point was that because the manual people are in distinct minority (and that will not change in my life time), BMW has decided, for whatever reason, that it is not a good business decision to bring more manual trans cars over to US. I am sure a lot of people would be interested to know what those reasons are...
Snipe656 commented:
February 7, 2013, 11:42 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbmw View Post
I truly get the argument that we should have the option of being able to choose a manual transmission or auto. My point was that because the manual people are in distinct minority (and that will not change in my life time), BMW has decided, for whatever reason, that it is not a good business decision to bring more manual trans cars over to US. I am sure a lot of people would be interested to know what those reasons are...
A lot of manufacturers and across many different types of vehicles are phasing out the manual transmissions. I used to always buy them not only because of the cost savings but also because the manual transmissions for me tend to out last the automatics by a long shot. Actually I can't recall ever having a manual transmission breaking, not even in the cars I raced.

I am not a huge fan of manuals in diesel vehicles due to the power bands but if I had a choice when buying then I'd get the MT over the AT assuming I did not have to pay more. I'd not do something so drastic though as buy a much lesser overall car simple to get an MT over getting an AT. When I got my truck I wanted to get an MT since they still did MT's in Ford Superduty trucks back then and the savings was many thousands of dollars but no one had one and they discounted things on the lot so much that it was cheaper to get an AT truck on the lot than order an MT truck.
Axel61 commented:
February 7, 2013, 12:47 pm

Frankly speaking i dont miss the MT Im getting use to the modern AUTO, with the 02 MCS then that was different story MT all the way with the 11 335d I can honest say HELL NOO I'll stay with the AUTO
GB commented:
February 7, 2013, 2:28 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl View Post
In the past people (myself included) would pick the MT for cost ($1200 for auto), reliability, better mpg , adding the fun factor somewhere in between. Today aside from the fun factor nothing else really holds true. So when someone is emphatic that a car is inadequate due to lack of MT I have diffulty understanding the logic.

Sent from my MB525 using Bimmer App
Yes, aside from the fun factor and not having to replace a $5k part every 100,000 miles (+/- 50,000mi), there's no real justification for a MT. If you're buying a car for convenience and utility, then an auto makes perfect sense. Otherwise....
kanar200 commented:
February 7, 2013, 2:48 pm

higher maintenance costs with automatic? what about dual mass flywheel which comes with MT and which does not live long with huge torque?
Mark K commented:
February 8, 2013, 2:37 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl View Post
So when someone is emphatic that a car is inadequate due to lack of MT I have diffulty understanding the logic.
Why does anybody want to marry fat women? Who cares, their problem. Let them have it, more skinny ones for you to chose from.

What's all of a sudden so wrong with having choices in this country? Why everything has to be logical and, even more important, sanctioned by majority? Not a nice society to live in if you stop and think about it. Those who want diesel are already screwed on choices, if you add MT to the mix, I still can buy only one brand - exactly as it was in 2006, 7 years ago. Fortunately, now you can at least chose between Golf, Jetta, Passat and Beetle. Soon to come CC as well.

This tells me that it IS possible to sell these cars at profit here, you just have to care about minorities.
fastm3 commented:
February 8, 2013, 4:26 pm

I'm a minority....and proud of it!
UncleJ commented:
February 8, 2013, 4:46 pm

The Tiguan 2wd still comes with a stick as well. VW for some reason has always pushed sticks far more than the other marques. Some would say it was because they really didn't have a decent auto box -- but now of course they do yet they still provide sticks in their bread and butter offerings. No stick in the T-egg however!
kanar200 commented:
February 8, 2013, 4:51 pm

Volks Wagen = People's Car

Nobody in Europe would consider VW as a luxury car. It was meant to be cheap, simple and reliable
EddieNYC commented:
February 11, 2013, 4:31 pm

Please be in my price range!!!
Axel61 commented:
February 12, 2013, 6:05 am

UncleJ very true about VW most of the vehicles are MT come to think of it but remember they have lower TORQUE numbers than our BEAST!!
bimmerdiesel commented:
February 12, 2013, 10:58 am

According to BMW, 3 Series GT is coming to USA this year. I hope they put 6cyl diesel in it. It would good combination of everything. It has more leg room than F30 and better trunk space too and in my opinion doesn't look bad at all.
bayoucity commented:
February 12, 2013, 11:50 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerdiesel View Post
According to BMW, 3 Series GT is coming to USA this year. I hope they put 6cyl diesel in it. It would good combination of everything. It has more leg room than F30 and better trunk space too and in my opinion doesn't look bad at all.
Well said!

I'll have ditched 535d over 3 GT diesel if that happened.
Flyingman commented:
February 12, 2013, 1:15 pm

Good article about the new 2014 3 series GT.

http://autos.jdpower.com/content/new...mo-preview.htm

Ne Diesel is mentioned.
bayoucity commented:
February 12, 2013, 1:24 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyingman View Post
Good article about the new 2014 3 series GT.

http://autos.jdpower.com/content/new...mo-preview.htm

Ne Diesel is mentioned.
Nooo.... I'm going to have to stick with 535d. According to that link, it's seating for 4. I need seating for 5 & not 4. I hate how manufacturer always slap that center console on the rear bench.
Snipe656 commented:
February 12, 2013, 1:32 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
Nooo.... I'm going to have to stick with 535d. According to that link, it's seating for 4. I need seating for 5 & not 4. I hate how manufacturer always slap that center console on the rear bench.
I am right there with you about hating when manufacturers do this and not for any "technical" reasons. There are a few cars that I really like but they can only sit 4 people and I prefer to own something that in a bind can cram 5 into.
bimmerdiesel commented:
February 12, 2013, 3:17 pm

oops. Why cant they allow 5. Rear seats are reclining seats so probably thats why it is 4.
Axel61 commented:
February 13, 2013, 11:33 am

That would SUCK if BMW does not bring it in DIESEL, Im begining to like the car for its space and not the looks. Curse BMWoA
bimmerdiesel commented:
February 14, 2013, 9:58 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerdiesel View Post
oops. Why cant they allow 5. Rear seats are reclining seats so probably thats why it is 4.
It is 5 seater. seats 3 in back with more leg room (3:57)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=nChW4OSg9Yc
bayoucity commented:
February 15, 2013, 8:45 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerdiesel View Post
It is 5 seater. seats 3 in back with more leg room (3:57)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=nChW4OSg9Yc
You are right, it's a 5 seater (see photos below). I don't understand why that article keeps saying seating for 4 over and over. Are Americans really that fat & wide these days?



BMW 3-SERIES commented:
February 16, 2013, 12:03 am

Let's hope for a manual. How much more reliable and perfect can it get, diesel, RWD, and a manual.
floydarogers commented:
March 5, 2013, 12:02 pm

There have been quite a few posts on diesel models for 2014 - found a PDF from Jon at Santa Barbara. Look in post #1 for SOP-EOP-MY2014.pdf

Looks like the 4-cylinders are going to be called 328:

Sedan: 328d, 328xd
Wagon: 328xd

5-series has 535d and 535xd

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=674004
floydarogers commented:
March 13, 2013, 12:34 pm

And one more (same info... more official?)

http://www.bmwcca.org/node/5576
kanar200 commented:
March 13, 2013, 1:00 pm

they are saying it will be twin-turbo diesel I-6... interesting, maybe they will downgrade the Euro spec 535d?

"A 535d model will be the first U.S. model to make use of a new twin-turbo diesel I-6, expected to produce around 255 hp and 413 lb-ft."
Pierre Louis commented:
March 13, 2013, 1:18 pm

I don't see a problem with this new engine as to its specs especially if:

1. It is more reliable i.e. the fuel pump pressure, DEF circuit etc. are tweaked to improve longevity and durability
2. It gets much better fuel economy than the older twin turbo 335d motor
3. It has the improved 8 speed automatic that may or may not be able to handle all that extra power but otherwise has better technology

A 535d would be a welcome addition if its steering wasn't numb and you could get the traditional handling that BMW seems to be dialing out of its newest models, at least with a sport package.

PL
d geek commented:
March 13, 2013, 3:13 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by kanar200 View Post
they are saying it will be twin-turbo diesel I-6... interesting, maybe they will downgrade the Euro spec 535d?

"A 535d model will be the first U.S. model to make use of a new twin-turbo diesel I-6, expected to produce around 255 hp and 413 lb-ft."
I saw this same speculation in Automobile magazine. I just find it hard to believe they would de-tune the "twin-turbo" 3L diesel (I believe it is actually two different sized turbos as were in the previous 335d engine- not twins) to get the same power they are getting out of the TwinPower turbo (single turbo) that they put in the Euro 530d.
kanar200 commented:
March 13, 2013, 3:31 pm

well, i believe it will be a single turbo engine... but at the same time, they de-tuned M57 (bi-turbo) earlier and were offering adblue diesel only in single turbo diesel engine in Europe...
d geek commented:
March 13, 2013, 5:21 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by kanar200 View Post
... they de-tuned M57 (bi-turbo) earlier and were offering adblue diesel only in single turbo diesel engine in Europe...
When they de-tuned the 335d (265 hp) for US market the torque stayed the same as the Euro 335d which had 286 hp.

The Euro 535d now puts out 313 hp and 465 lb-ft. I can't see them cutting the torque down to 413.

The current 530d with adblue performance has no drop off in power ratings. That's most likely the engine that will show up in the US "535d". I'm not going to complain, but its just confusing...
kanar200 commented:
March 13, 2013, 5:37 pm

regardless whether it would be single turbo or bi-turbo, I like it... if only they brought F11 to the US, I would say good bye to X5
m8o commented:
March 13, 2013, 6:06 pm

Thought it better to ask here in this thread than make another. Anyone clue when we might have solid details regarding what the 328d will actually be? Anyone in the know reading this that may have an idea of a date we'd have 100% non-speculative info.

I struggle to believe BMW would go the route of calling an unmodified 20d level engine a 28d, with sizable price increase but without performance increase; consider me skeptical and likely naive but I can't believe BMW would be so brazen to do so. The questions I wish to answer are will it fer'sher have urea injection or be a low-pressure diesel like VW chose to go? will it fer'sher have 1 or 2 turbos (which naively seems more logical to get the 25d engine -> 28d vs a 20d -> 28d), and what kind of power/torque and consumption can we expect?

I loved the previous-gen 335d but as I already had a RWD 4-door performance sedan that I didn't want to part with, making a move to the 335d wasn't in the cards for me; and I really wanted a wagon and AWD. And the possibility of me getting a diesel looks promising now. And if the US were to be getting to a "328d" with performance and consumption proportional between the 20d/25d/30d levels where you'd expect a 28d to lie, via say a de-tuned/lower pressure 330d engine to lessen the NOx levels, I'd be all over it. I'd be in-line to trade my JCW in in short order.

But if the 328d is really to be basically a 320d which would mean I'd be paying for near (or even more than?) 330d prices for 320d levels of performance? Forget it; I'm out. I'd just like to know so I can either plan, or get on with my life.
d geek commented:
March 13, 2013, 6:14 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by m8o View Post
Thought it better to ask here in this thread than make another. Anyone clue when we might have solid details regarding what the 328d will actually be? Anyone in the know reading this that may have an idea of a date we'd have 100% non-speculative info.

I struggle to believe BMW would go the route of calling an unmodified 20d level engine a 28d, with sizable price increase but without performance increase; consider me skeptical and likely naive but I can't believe BMW would be so brazen to do so. The questions I wish to answer are will it fer'sher have urea injection or be a low-pressure diesel like VW chose to go? will it fer'sher have 1 or 2 turbos (which naively seems more logical to get the 25d engine -> 28d vs a 20d -> 28d), and what kind of power/torque and consumption can we expect?

I loved the previous-gen 335d but as I already had a RWD 4-door performance sedan that I didn't want to part with, making a move to the 335d wasn't in the cards for me; and I really wanted a wagon and AWD. And the possibility of me getting a diesel looks promising now. And if the US were to be getting to a "328d" with performance and consumption proportional between the 20d/25d/30d levels where you'd expect a 28d to lie, via say a de-tuned/lower pressure 330d engine to lessen the NOx levels, I'd be all over it. I'd be in-line to trade my JCW in in short order.

But if the 328d is really to be basically a 320d which would mean I'd be paying for near (or even more than?) 330d prices for 320d levels of performance? Forget it; I'm out. I'd just like to know so I can either plan, or get on with my life.
The whole badging thing really bugs me. A 320d with adblue performance (urea) costs that same as a 328i in Europe. I was really hoping for the same relative pricing here. I'm not sure if they'll use the badge to bump the price up or not. If they offer the ecocredit then it may be a wash, but kinda sketchy IMO.

The information released to date has the power output of the 3er d exactly the same as the 320d. It will be a 4 cyl single turbo with adblue performance. (That is the only way they can meet the US emission standards.)

Info posted by Jon Shafer has the 328d going into production in July.
BB_cuda commented:
March 13, 2013, 7:46 pm

I checked the bmwusa site about 2 weeks ago. I was hoping we could do a build your own to get a feel for pricing. BMW NA, are you listening? Wondering about the base price of a 2013/2014/? what ever the year is for the coming 535D??
UTGuy13 commented:
March 14, 2013, 1:53 am

No sooner we finally get a US 3d series then they announce a nicely designed GT without a "d". D-cisions... D-cisions!
d geek commented:
March 27, 2013, 10:16 am

good info from J Spira here:
http://www.thedieseldriver.com/2013/...d-intro-video/

<$40k
>40mpg EPA hwy
AutoUnion commented:
March 27, 2013, 10:22 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
good info from J Spira here:
http://www.thedieseldriver.com/2013/...d-intro-video/

<$40k
>40mpg EPA hwy
awesome! now where's the xDrive diesel?
3ismagic# commented:
March 27, 2013, 10:28 am

That video is pretty silly. Man BMWUSA is working hard to polish this underpowered overpriced rebadged turd.

If the 335d was soooooo perfect for the E90 why is a rebadged 320d soooooo perfect for the F30?

I've heard more convincing rationalizations from my 3 year old.
Obvious that everyone at BMWUSA got the buzzword memo before this. "Tremendous" and "optimized"
3ismagic# commented:
March 27, 2013, 10:29 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
awesome! now where's the xDrive diesel?
they said both RWD and AWD is coming.
AutoUnion commented:
March 27, 2013, 10:47 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ismagic# View Post
That video is pretty silly. Man BMWUSA is working hard to polish this underpowered overpriced rebadged turd.

If the 335d was soooooo perfect for the E90 why is a rebadged 320d soooooo perfect for the F30?
It's perfect because they're probably not going to have to sell them with huge eco credits, like they did the 335d.

How is it overpriced? If anything, the 335d can be considered overpriced.

If you truly want a larger engine, they'll be happy to sell you the upcoming 535d
Pierre Louis commented:
March 27, 2013, 10:49 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ismagic# View Post
That video is pretty silly. Man BMWUSA is working hard to polish this underpowered overpriced rebadged turd.

If the 335d was soooooo perfect for the E90 why is a rebadged 320d soooooo perfect for the F30?

I've heard more convincing rationalizations from my 3 year old.
Obvious that everyone at BMWUSA got the buzzword memo before this. "Tremendous" and "optimized"
I don't think there is any doubt that for the US market, mpg is more important than 0-60 in the diesel segment. Just look at the way M3 drivers treat 335d specs to see that macho and stop light grand prix's are more important in the "performance" mindset than the kind of driving experience a powerful diesel engine can provide without the mpg or cost penalty.

BMW is just reacting, IMO, to consumer demand and regulatory reality. They will, to their credit, bring their 535d to North America soon after. Alas, there are no manual transmissions to be found in the diesel lineup.

PL
3ismagic# commented:
March 27, 2013, 11:10 am

close to $40k for a 320d? The guy said that as if it's a wonderful thing that it will come in under $40k.

They are taking an underpowered 320d from Europe and rebadging it as a 328d for gullible americans so that they can mark it up near $40k.
40mpg highway is pretty pathetic for a 4 cylinder diesel. my 335d can get that.

It's a 320d and should be sold and priced as a 320d.

I'd buy a 328i or a even a 320i over this all day long and I suspect most consumers will too.
Others may disagree but IMHO this is some weak-@ss sauce.
Snipe656 commented:
March 27, 2013, 11:17 am

My old 335d was under $40k new after all the discounts the dealers and BMW had to toss in to move the cars. No way I'd buy something with less power for close to the same price. I already felt I was paying a little too much for what I got but the power made me not think straight.
floydarogers commented:
March 27, 2013, 11:19 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ismagic# View Post
close to $40k for a 320d? The guy said that as if it's a wonderful thing that it will come in under $40k.

They are taking an underpowered 320d from Europe and rebadging it as a 328d for gullible americans so that they can mark it up near $40k.
40mpg highway is pretty pathetic for a 4 cylinder diesel.
Well, look at the competition: the Jetta TDi is 42mpg, makes 140 hp and 236 ft-lbs and does the 0-60 in 9 secs. (It also costs only $26K for the highest trim level.) So viewed in the broader scene it's pretty good positioning.

Still, I also wish for a real 6-pot 325d...
Snipe656 commented:
March 27, 2013, 11:24 am

I am rather baffled how someone would consider a $26k FWD car as competition to a near $40k RWD car. $14k better damn well buy a lot of "upgrades", to me it would be expected.
floydarogers commented:
March 27, 2013, 11:43 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
I am rather baffled how someone would consider a $26k FWD car as competition to a near $40k RWD car. $14k better damn well buy a lot of "upgrades", to me it would be expected.
In many respects the Passat at $33K would have been a better comparison (although I think it's slightly larger inside than a 3-series.) But they're all diesels, which is the more critical item for comparison purposes.

What? You don't believe that RWD/AWD (note that vw no longer sells Synchro AWD for their diesels) is worth $5K?
Pierre Louis commented:
March 27, 2013, 11:51 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ismagic# View Post
40mpg highway is pretty pathetic for a 4 cylinder diesel. my 335d can get that.

It's a 320d and should be sold and priced as a 320d.

I'd buy a 328i or a even a 320i over this all day long and I suspect most consumers will too.
Others may disagree but IMHO this is some weak-@ss sauce.
Oh really?

Lets see:

The new car will have
the 8 speed automatic: + 2mpg
the other features s/a electric steering, brake regenerating generator, lower weight chassis/body, etc.: + 2 mpg
AND the 4 cylinder engine: + 2 mpg

The 40+ mpg is in line with the anticipated pathetic EPA numbers. The new 328d should run rings around any 320i or 328i in torque and driving dynamics as does the 335d over its competition. I doubt it will be close to our 335d's in fuel economy - it will be much better....

So I guess people will need to actually drive it to feel the difference and have a bit of knowledge about EPA fuel economy numbers to really know how to compare models.

PL
Snipe656 commented:
March 27, 2013, 12:07 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
In many respects the Passat at $33K would have been a better comparison (although I think it's slightly larger inside than a 3-series.) But they're all diesels, which is the more critical item for comparison purposes.

What? You don't believe that RWD/AWD (note that vw no longer sells Synchro AWD for their diesels) is worth $5K?
The cars drive drastically different. Handling, ride quality, and I bet acceleration are all very different. They both are diesels and have four doors but outside that I really do not understand how they compete with one another. Perhaps if the only reason someone buys one is because of mpg then they would compare the two to decide if they want to pay $14k more for better handling, better ride quality, better acceleration and I dunno maybe better interior quality but not compared them to that level. Although $14k more sure would add up to a lot of fuel they could burn through if went with the cheaper vehicle, so seems like a strange primary reason(mpg ratings) to compare the two. Sorry but I just can't understand how these two cars are competitors to each other.

I am a big fan of RWD and hate how FWD cars drive, yes I'd pay $5k more just to get RWD over FWD but the prices listed above in the other posts make it sound like it is a $14k difference. That is no small chunk of change. So yeah if comparing a Passat to one then I'd buy the BMW over the Passat although at $40k I'd probably buy a C250. I'd figured the Passat is much bigger than a 3-series but never seen the cars next to each other to get a good feeling.

Guess it all boils down to the reasons each person buys a car. I am certainly guilty of comparing drastically different vehicles when buying a replacement car.
Pierre Louis commented:
March 27, 2013, 12:30 pm

However close the North American 328d is the European 320d is immaterial. In the US, BMW has chosen a slightly different nomenclature where the number doesn't reflect the displacement as much as it reflects the power of the engine and additionally the equipment that is standard (also reflected in the price).

People looking at the 328i and the theoretical 320d would assume that the d is a lesser car and they would be wrong by the number on the trunk. So in all its wisdom, I believe BMW is naming it a 328d instead.

At least its better than giving each model names like "Cherry" and "Sentra" ha ha.

Just my $.02

PL
floydarogers commented:
March 27, 2013, 12:42 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
... I'd figured the Passat is much bigger than a 3-series but never seen the cars next to each other to get a good feeling.
The Passat is a little wider, has much more (4") rear legroom, about 3 cu ft more trunk space. Wheelbase is equal, but the Passat is about 9" longer overall. Much closer than I had thought, actually (comparison from cars.com.)

I guarantee you that people are going to be cross-shopping, and looking to move "up" to the 328d if they can afford it. The 328d has many more "luxury" options going for it, although it's base level isn't so well equipped as the high-level Passat. And the AWD option is going to get some people to look at it above the VWs.
d geek commented:
March 27, 2013, 12:51 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
..Still, I also wish for a real 6-pot 325d...
the '25d' has been a 4 cyl for a couple of years now.
I'd like that option, though. Only problem is it is not available with the blueperformance for some reason.
d geek commented:
March 27, 2013, 12:53 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post
...The new 328d should run rings around any 320i or 328i in torque ...
I dunno about that. The 328i max torque is nearly as much as the d, and is available at lower rpm to boot.
d geek commented:
March 27, 2013, 5:52 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ismagic# View Post
close to $40k for a 320d? The guy said that as if it's a wonderful thing that it will come in under $40k.

They are taking an underpowered 320d from Europe and rebadging it as a 328d for gullible americans so that they can mark it up near $40k.
40mpg highway is pretty pathetic for a 4 cylinder diesel. my 335d can get that.

It's a 320d and should be sold and priced as a 320d.

I'd buy a 328i or a even a 320i over this all day long and I suspect most consumers will too.
Others may disagree but IMHO this is some weak-@ss sauce.
In Germany if you buy a 320d with the blueperformance emission system you end up paying about $1300 less than a 328i. I'm still of the opinion that they will price the 328d slightly above the 328i and then give the EcoCredit to help. Not optimal, but when comparing to what the Germans pay keep in mind that they pay about 30% more for a 328i
Snipe656 commented:
March 27, 2013, 8:46 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
The Passat is a little wider, has much more (4") rear legroom, about 3 cu ft more trunk space. Wheelbase is equal, but the Passat is about 9" longer overall. Much closer than I had thought, actually (comparison from cars.com.)

I guarantee you that people are going to be cross-shopping, and looking to move "up" to the 328d if they can afford it. The 328d has many more "luxury" options going for it, although it's base level isn't so well equipped as the high-level Passat. And the AWD option is going to get some people to look at it above the VWs.
Cross shop from the Jetta or Passat? My comments were to the Jetta to 328d being competitors. I don't think many are going to cross shop something that has a $14k price difference. Heck they could almost buy a Kia for the difference.
Pierre Louis commented:
March 27, 2013, 9:49 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
I dunno about that. The 328i max torque is nearly as much as the d, and is available at lower rpm to boot.
This is true. The difference will be in fuel economy and small particulate emissions where the d does better. The EPA hasn't figured out yet how to show that diesels are better in these categories.

PL
Stugots commented:
March 27, 2013, 10:56 pm

The options coming up for the diesel variants to the US from BMW are seriously making me consider going back to a petrol based car.
Pierre Louis commented:
March 28, 2013, 7:11 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
The options coming up for the diesel variants to the US from BMW are seriously making me consider going back to a petrol based car.
Does this help?

Quote:
You may wonder if this is a joke...well it isn’t! It is true! The 2.0 liter diesel engine of the Bmw showed better fuel economy than the well-known eco-friendly Toyota Prius. Some of you may see this camparison between the two cars ridiculous but if we look at the CO2 emissions of the two vehicles we see that there are almost equal: the Bmw delivers 41.9 mpg while the Prius, with almost 250 kg lighter, delivers 40.1 mpg.

The test between the two cars was made on the London-to-Geneva route. The Bmw equipped with a series of energy-saving features like the battery recharge when braking, good aerodynamics, low rolling resistance in a word the so-called EfficientDynamics showed no problems on the road and by the end of it also remained with a third of its tank in reserve.

The Prius ran out of gas but this happened only due to smaller tank and because the car is made for urban live. The advantage if hybrids can’t be seen on highway where the car is pushing through the wind, this can easily be seen in urban driving where the stop-and-go recaptures the car’s energy.

Now if we make a conclusion we can say that Bmw showed every one that its 5-series can beat also the eco-friendly Prius but what if the test would have been made inside a town...Would the Bmw be the winner?
PL
Stugots commented:
March 28, 2013, 4:43 pm

Not really. I want a healthy balance between performance and mileage (my original purpose for buying the 335, but it's become so much more than that), and BMW isn't providing anything to us that will fit that bill anymore.
UncleJ commented:
March 29, 2013, 10:56 am

Audi on the other hand seems to be jumping in with both feet. Not only is there a new diesel Q5, but the A4 and A8 are also going oil fired here as well. The A4 vs the 328 is interesting, especially since the superb quattro system will make that a very competitive comparo. BMW needs to pull up its socks and get back into the game!
ynguldyn commented:
March 29, 2013, 5:48 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
In Germany if you buy a 320d with the blueperformance emission system you end up paying about $1300 less than a 328i.
There's over EUR1000 in equipment that 328i has and 320d doesn't. Once that equipment is added to 320d, the car ends up a tiny bit more expensive than 328i.
d geek commented:
March 30, 2013, 10:59 am

Today's press release:
Quote:
Woodcliff Lake, NJ – March 29, 2013…. BMW debuted the new 328d Sedan at the New York International Auto, ushering in the next wave of BMW Advanced Diesel models in the US. The 328d will feature BMW's 2.0-liter TwinPower diesel 4-cylinder engine. It produces 180 horsepower and 280 lb-ft of torque, available from 1,750 rpm. It will be mated to an 8-speed automatic transmission. The 328d Sedan will accelerate from 0 – 60 mph in just over seven seconds. Preliminary highway fuel economy estimates are expected to be 45 mpg. The 328d Sedan will be available in rear wheel drive and also with xDrive, BMW's advanced all-wheel drive system. The sedans will be joined by the 328d xDrive Sports Wagon. All Three variants will arrive in US showroom as 2014 models in fall of 2013.
BMW Advanced diesel models have already shown to US enthusiasts that diesel power can be perfectly suited to The Ultimate Driving MachineTM. With the introduction of the first 4-cylinder diesel BMW engine offered in the US, BMW Advanced Diesel power and particularly outstanding levels of torque and outstanding fuel efficiency. Preliminary fuel economy estimates for the rear wheel drive 328d Sedan are 32 mpg city/45 mpg highway/37 mpg combined*. BMW Advanced Diesel technology includes Selective Catalyst Reduction to make the new 328d models true clean diesels.
Levels of performance and luxury expected of any BMW 3 Series will be ensured with levels of standard equipment on par with the 328i gasoline models. The options list will include Luxury, Sport and Modern Lines as well as M Sport.
Detailed specifications and pricing will be available closer to launch. All three 328d variants will be available in US showrooms this fall.
Impressive fuel economy projections. Better than any of the VW tdi on the EPA cycles.
UncleJ commented:
March 30, 2013, 11:23 am

The numbers are right up there with the Ford Fusion Hybrid and CMax revised figures. Finally we might be getting a diesel here -- now when do we see the X versions?
d geek commented:
March 30, 2013, 11:36 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleJ View Post
The numbers are right up there with the Ford Fusion Hybrid and CMax revised figures. Finally we might be getting a diesel here -- now when do we see the X versions?
The above press release says they will be in showrooms this fall.
UncleJ commented:
March 31, 2013, 11:46 am

x-drives in the fall but no "X" class cars with diesel mentioned that I found in the PresRel.
d geek commented:
April 1, 2013, 12:13 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleJ View Post
x-drives in the fall but no "X" class cars with diesel mentioned that I found in the PresRel.
really?
Quote:
The 328d Sedan will be available in rear wheel drive and also with xDrive, BMW's advanced all-wheel drive system. The sedans will be joined by the 328d xDrive Sports Wagon. All Three variants will arrive in US showroom as 2014 models in fall of 2013.
finnbmw commented:
April 1, 2013, 10:51 am

I think UncleJ means no X1, X3, X5 or X6 diesel....
UncleJ commented:
April 1, 2013, 11:03 am

Right, that is what I was referring to -- the X-class cars. Sorry, I should have been clearer. There was no mention of when or if we would see them here.
ynguldyn commented:
April 1, 2013, 11:44 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleJ View Post
Right, that is what I was referring to -- the X-class cars. Sorry, I should have been clearer. There was no mention of when or if we would see them here.
X5 35d has SOP 12/13.
BB_cuda commented:
April 1, 2013, 1:21 pm

Can't resist stirring the pot . If you get the base SE version and don't get the sunroof/nav upgrade, it comes standard with the 6 speed manual. With no other options besides the base non metallic paint (i picked white) and vinyl seats ( i picked cornsilk) the price including destination charges is $27,070.

I know, i know, the diesel has to shift a lot earlier but some people are hell bent on a stick, diesel or not. pot stirred
Snipe656 commented:
April 1, 2013, 1:27 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_cuda View Post
Can't resist stirring the pot . If you get the base SE version and don't get the sunroof/nav upgrade, it comes standard with the 6 speed manual. With no other options besides the base non metallic paint (i picked white) and vinyl seats ( i picked cornsilk) the price including destination charges is $27,070.

I know, i know, the diesel has to shift a lot earlier but some people are hell bent on a stick, diesel or not. pot stirred
If I were to buy a Passat then this is probably how I'd option it out, except different colors. I did not realize they could be had this cheap but also not have enough interest in one to go and look.
DnA Diesel commented:
April 1, 2013, 1:44 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleJ View Post
The numbers are right up there with the Ford Fusion Hybrid and CMax revised figures. Finally we might be getting a diesel here -- now when do we see the X versions?
They're missing the boat not providing an X3d...I may end up looking at a GLK or Q5 for a mid-size SUV. BMW is missing the boat on the smaller SUV front.
Snipe656 commented:
April 1, 2013, 1:47 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by DnA Diesel View Post
They're missing the boat not providing an X3d...I may end up looking at a GLK or Q5 for a mid-size SUV. BMW is missing the boat on the smaller SUV front.
From what I have read on the Q5 and what the diesel offering should be like then I think it will be a hard mid sized SUV to pass up on.
DnA Diesel commented:
April 1, 2013, 10:08 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
From what I have read on the Q5 and what the diesel offering should be like then I think it will be a hard mid sized SUV to pass up on.
Yup. I'll at least give it a test drive...
d geek commented:
April 13, 2013, 11:27 am

All you folks whining over the lack of a manual trans offering in the 328d and 535d should read this review.
Quote:
Another gripe (and perhaps the largest) is with the manual. In order to shave a few thousand euro off the price we went with the 6 speed manual.

And opposite of what you’d expect it was the worst choice imaginable. Rather than increasing the fun it really only adds frustration. Sure its sacrilegious for a left foot snob to say a manual is the wrong choice but if I am being honest it surely was. Due to the low rev nature of the diesel and its turbo lag you end up shifting all the time. The ZF 8 speed (as pictured) is a much better choice for this engine and (in my mind) clearly BMWNA made the right choice as the only transmission available in the US for the upcoming 328d.

Everyone assumes that a manual is more fun, more engaging and the better choice for enthusiasts. I am here to tell you that is a crock of BS. The engine is torquey, efficient (we get 50 mpg mixed) and has enough life to be entertaining but the low rev nature and curve make it ideal for the fast shifting ZF and its algorithms; let alone the plus the auto has in MPG. It is the first time I have ever had buyer’s remorse about an option choice, and damned if it isn’t the tried and true manual tranny.
Snipe656 commented:
April 13, 2013, 11:35 am

I personally never have liked out manual trans diesels drive and essentially for reasons that quote above gives. But if given a choice and it did not cost more money then I'd get a manual trans. My reasons are more to do with manual trans always last forever for me but automatics not so much.
BB_cuda commented:
April 14, 2013, 11:06 pm

I drove a co-workers TDI jetta sportwagen with stick. It was fine for me but not ignoring the author's strong suggestion either. That is interesting as normally the European's are more stick crazy than most. I knew fuel usage would be better with the 8 speed. I didn't know the 8 speed was a ZF. To me the 535D is getting more and more interesting. I would think the Q5 TDI an 535D would be comparable more so as the newer 3L diesel is a little bit down on power and torque. It is close to that of a european 530D spec wise.
Pierre Louis commented:
April 15, 2013, 7:20 am

My experience and likes are different.

I had a diesel TDi with manual and then a family member got a DSG automatic with the same engine. The manual had better fuel economy and was more fun to drive, even in the city. The same went for a Volvo in the past where the manual transmission got much better fuel economy than what the EPA said it would while the automatic didn't.

I wouldn't go by EPA fuel economy ratings since they differ significantly from real world driving mpg.

Unless BMW has fallen in its design and engineering game, where it was one of the best manual transmissions, I would still opt for a manual even in a diesel. The low end torque needs getting used to and cannot be driven like some do their gasser manuals. I drive the diesel manual more like one when I try to save fuel and shift earlier anyway.

PL
Flyingman commented:
April 15, 2013, 10:17 am

I'll take auto with thumb shifters anyday!
d geek commented:
April 15, 2013, 10:17 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post
...I wouldn't go by EPA fuel economy ratings since they differ significantly from real world driving mpg....
I don't disagree that the EPA cycle is wasteful to an extreme, and is particulary hard on diesel fuel economy ratings, but note that the Euro test cycle- which is extreme in the other direction- also indicates that the Auto trans obtains better FE. I'm not saying you can't beat the EPA or meet the ECE ratings with the manual, but it appears you need to try harder with the manual.
Pierre Louis commented:
April 15, 2013, 8:53 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
I don't disagree that the EPA cycle is wasteful to an extreme, and is particulary hard on diesel fuel economy ratings, but note that the Euro test cycle- which is extreme in the other direction- also indicates that the Auto trans obtains better FE. I'm not saying you can't beat the EPA or meet the ECE ratings with the manual, but it appears you need to try harder with the manual.
Its entirely possible that the test cycles don't "coast" as much as I do when I drive a manual. I also rarely use the brakes and no, I don't use the transmission to slow the car either.

Either way, an automatic is very expensive to build, pay for, and service compared to a manual. Unless of course you want to market it in the US where the government is there to help you with their severe restrictions on manufacturers ...... not.

PL
scootle commented:
September 26, 2013, 9:05 pm

It seems like concrete info about these diesel offerings is so hard to come by...

Does anyone actually have a 328xd Sports Wagon on schedule for delivery anywhere in the USA this year? My local dealer said he didn't think they'd be here until sometime late next year (2014), but that is counter to what the PR seems to have stated.

Thanks.
d geek commented:
September 26, 2013, 9:24 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by scootle View Post
It seems like concrete info about these diesel offerings is so hard to come by...

Does anyone actually have a 328xd Sports Wagon on schedule for delivery anywhere in the USA this year? My local dealer said he didn't think they'd be here until sometime late next year (2014), but that is counter to what the PR seems to have stated.

Thanks.
At least one member here on bimmerfest has received his 328d sport wagon and posted pics of it.

Check autotrader. there are several around the country