FIGHT! Mercedes says it's tops in luxury sales for 2012, not BMW

408Racer commented:
February 19, 2013, 7:57 pm

No reason to fight. My car is now more exclusive than MB.

justinnum1 commented:
February 19, 2013, 7:58 pm

Good for mercedes. And everyone driving around in their 299 a month C250's

metrathon commented:
February 19, 2013, 8:03 pm

I imagine there are big bonuses involved in this numbers game, so for the Execs even a 10 cars difference it's extremely important.

captainaudio commented:
February 19, 2013, 8:45 pm

I hope this gets settled quickly as it is going to have a profound influence on my life.

CA

dtc100 commented:
February 19, 2013, 8:46 pm

So 6,000+ BMWs were bought by people who paid cash and shipped them to Russia, big deal

finaloption commented:
February 19, 2013, 9:18 pm

i've been seeing so many C2XX and C3XX lately.. it seems like every other car is a e9x or merc c class

pony_trekker commented:
February 19, 2013, 9:47 pm

That's why they were giving the E Class Sedans away.

boltjaM3s commented:
February 19, 2013, 10:14 pm

My Luxury line is so much better than any Sport line or No line models out there.

BJ

-=Hot|Ice=- commented:
February 19, 2013, 10:20 pm

Must me like my car. My M3 is better then any other M3 out there. Long lost brothers?

dtc100 commented:
February 19, 2013, 10:49 pm

MB C Class has no Sport Line or No Line. It does have C63.

Moatsy commented:
February 20, 2013, 12:02 am

Still looking to meet a Benz owner that I like...

dtc100 commented:
February 20, 2013, 12:09 am

Being a Tundra owner, I don't know if you are ever loved among your trucking peers

Moatsy commented:
February 20, 2013, 12:22 am

touche'... I am a truck snob;

HugH commented:
February 20, 2013, 12:56 am

My next door neighbor just bought a E350 last month...we like her a lot.

I purchased a new '73 MB 350ES and we liked it a lot...so what?

Moatsy commented:
February 20, 2013, 1:06 am

I dunno, they seem a bit touchy...

-=Hot|Ice=- commented:
February 20, 2013, 1:14 am

Wrong, the MB C class has two 'lines' Sport and Luxury. MB doesn't call them lines though. I have no idea how that was relevant to my post.

K-A commented:
February 20, 2013, 6:16 am

M-B has a much larger lineup and they were literally giving their E-Classes away for Lease rates comparable to F30 3-Series' (don't even get started on terms on C-Classes I heard people get). One would think they should sell more volume.

smashhell commented:
February 20, 2013, 6:24 am

So what kind of deal they got? I'm curious

K-A commented:
February 20, 2013, 6:50 am

I just got an Email for a C250 for friggin' $279 a month with $1,500 drive off.

On the M-B Forums, guys were posting E350's with P1 for around $450 or less! I heard some Bluetecs were leasing in the $3's!) with NO driveoff.

It's no exaggeration, M-B were literally giving away E's. My 2011 E had an incredible deal I got on it, but nowadays it's just gotten ridiculous. It looks very bad for the brand, namely for what's supposed to be a prestigious model like the E-Clas. I looked at E's for the hell of it when I was cross shopping cars, and I could have got one that had a similar MSRP to my F10 for substantially cheaper, and I got one of the best deals I've ever heard anyone get on a 5-Series on mine. I think this is one of the reasons M-B found they needed to do such an extensive facelift on the E-Class. It's a shame because maybe if they at least *tried* to sell them with more dignity, i.e not slashing over 20% on a bare bones E-Class with little to negotiation (I got $10K off a $58K E in middle of 2011, no big incentives or anything), perhaps they could have fetched a closer-to-MSRP price? Idk.

Mark K commented:
February 20, 2013, 9:16 am

I guess this is good for the people looking to buy a new M-B or BMW. If M-B is slashing prices, it won't take long before BMW does, too. Oh, wait! What was that with best February lease deals ever?

LegendsNeverDie commented:
February 20, 2013, 9:21 am

Interesting read. Seems like MB really did outsell BMW then. Gotta love the C350 and C63.

LegendsNeverDie commented:
February 20, 2013, 9:52 am

What a small world! My 328 is better than any other 328 out there! Separated at birth?

dtc100 commented:
February 20, 2013, 12:01 pm

Yes what I meant, the C "sport" is all appearance, unlike BMW.

The relevance to your post? I made a suggestion how you two could compare cars in a more logical way, 3 vs. C or M3 vs. C63, rather look at yourself in the mirror all the time

dtc100 commented:
February 20, 2013, 12:03 pm

The new E is out soon, might have some to do with the good leases on the current Es.

As for C250, its purpose is to attract Camry and Accord people. The upcoming 320i will do the same.

jjcruiser commented:
February 20, 2013, 12:39 pm

I think this is excellent news for anyone looking to buy one of these brands in 2013, as it might enhance competition towards the end of the year (again).

I also think this "it's dumb of MB to sell too many E-class sedans" is silly. That's like me complaining U2 plays stadiums instead of arenas because I want less people to hear them play. What a bizarre complaint.

If you really want a unique and elite car, go buy a Fisker or a Tesla. Not a mass-produced mass-marketed German car.

chris328 commented:
February 20, 2013, 12:57 pm

for some people, all they have is their car though.

justinnum1 commented:
February 20, 2013, 1:13 pm

Well said.

IndyMike commented:
February 20, 2013, 1:19 pm

So basically BMW benz the numbers to its advantage.

I actually met one last July when I bought a 1 M from him.

My new best friend for life.

everettpa1 commented:
February 20, 2013, 3:54 pm

Lamest post on this site yet. I'm a new BMW owner after 7 1/2 years of Mercedes ownership. I know the Benz and BMW guys don't get along but does it make you feel better about your 3 series to trash the C class. Really?

As BMW and Mercedes go bottom fishing with the CLA and 1/2 these brands will only get more watered down.

BMW and Mercedes and Audi are battling it out now, and we all win. These great cars are only get cheaper and cheaper to buy. Unless you are in an S or SL or AMG, or a 6 or 7 or M, you're car is not exclusive and you see tons of them everywhere. I personally think the 3 and 5 are better than the C and E right now but I have great respect for both companies.

MB and BMW are heavily discounting cars these days. Audi is not. Try to work a deal there and you will leave in what you drove up in.

Enjoy the 3 for what it does and how it performs, not for what it says about you or the brand. We all have a lot more company these days as prices come down. I think thats a good, not bad thing.

408Racer commented:
February 20, 2013, 4:00 pm

Hahaha, my old boss has a C63 and his wife a 335. And I get along with him as he gave me a good reference.

+1

K-A commented:
February 20, 2013, 5:34 pm

The W212's were getting heavily discounted right of the bat, it's really nothing new for them, i.e it wasn't due to the facelift coming out (the next gen E is still years away).

Nobody knocked them for "selling too many cars", I'm knocking a self-purported "Premium Brand" for depreciating their models over 20% before the papers are even signed, making a mockery of their own MSRP, and giving the look of "we need to give them away to move them at high rates". I feel sorry for the poor soul who entrusted a historically premium brand like M-B's "Suggested Retail Price" and didn't do their best tire-kicking low-ball to get into one.

Audi isn't playing this "race to the bottom" game and they're the hottest grower amongst all Luxury Cars. They have the benefit of being in the VAG club, therefore they don't have the pressure to sustain off of only themselves, as compared to Daimler and BMW AG, however.

jjcruiser commented:
February 20, 2013, 6:45 pm

I appreciate the clarification, but:

that's more generous of you than I would be. I have a little trouble feeling sorry for people who walk into a dealership and agree to pay sticker for a $55,000 car. And certainly I don't begrudge the dealer or maker for wanting to sell more cars by starting with an inflated MSRP and then heavily discounting it. That's pretty common in all sorts of sales, isn't it?

kobechrome commented:
February 20, 2013, 6:47 pm

Yes it is. I guess the point is how heavy a discount is appropriate before you embarrass/dilute/damage the brand?

LegendsNeverDie commented:
February 20, 2013, 7:20 pm

A little OT but since we are talking about the MB here is a chop what the next C will supposedly look like:

K-A commented:
February 20, 2013, 7:39 pm

That's true, people should do their homework.

It's a fine line. You slash prices too much and you look like a "Discount brand". If one wants to maintain the integrity of aspirational status, i.e a Premium/Luxury Brand, then you have to protect your brand image as much as you can, and you have to at least give the impression of protecting your resale values, and that you can command the respect of your asking price (to a certain degree). Easy 20% discounts on $60K cars is just crazy. Porsche does a good job, they get very close to MSRP, but I've seen them give aggressive discounts... though "aggressive" for Porsche probably means the least-aggressive discount you'd ever get on an M-B, lol.

As for the C-Class render, if it has those crashing/wayward/nonsensical lines that don't flow with the proportions of the car, then IMO it'll be another "ooh that's different.... then tiringly dated" newer design coming out of M-B. I just wish they'd do what they used to so well: Evolving on their iconic design idiom, which BMW and Audi have been doing extremely successfully lately.

Cal commented:
February 21, 2013, 3:29 am

K-A,

Now you know how you were able to get out of your first W212 a year before lease-end and get into a newer one (your 2011) with little to no money out of pocket. As I mentioned before, the one thing I like about the BMW boards is the vast amount of info available (incentives, MF, etc) that is pretty much non-existent in the MB market to prospective buyers.

K-A commented:
February 21, 2013, 6:35 am

Yep and totally agreed. Fortunately without any real "down-to-numbers" help from M-B boards I still was able to do an "easy" swap into a newer (and more expensive) E-Class from a just-year old one because M-B's incentives were just so upfront aggressive.

With my 5er, I couldn't have ever scored such a great deal on it were it not for this great Forum, its vast amounts of info and knowledge from bonafide ENTHUSIASTS who are far and away more demanding and demonstrative than what you find on M-B Boards (which is why I so fit in here ).... and of course it helps that I got my car from the owner of this very site, aka extra special deal and treatment.

It's a great thing when being on a Forum actually SAVES you money, considering I've always considered them my "waste of time" vices.

everettpa1 commented:
February 21, 2013, 9:44 am

In my recent hunt for a car, I looked at and negotiated hard on the S6, 550i, and E550. All were within spitting distance of each other at an MSRP of around $73,500. The best deal I could work on the Audi was $71,900, the 550i was $68,000, and the E550 was $65,800.

What does this mean? Well, I would rate these 3 cars in exactly the order they were priced, high to low. I don't think the Audi is $4K better than the 550i. It drives much better, i smuch more sporty, but its styling left me cold, and I don't like how "arrogant" Audi is with pricing.

The Mercedes and BMW brands are being watered down with more bottom feeding entry level cars. And the more aggressive pricing from both is bringing down resale values and opening the door to more stretch buyers. Audi's brand is clearly on the ascent. The media loves an underdog and promotes them constantly.

Audi is an interesting car company. Many of the cars are very conservative in the styling dept, especially the sedans. The coupes, roadsters, and sportback are very impressive in styling. The fact the A/S/RS 5 still looks awesome 6 years later is proof of that. Put the 435 next to the A5 and the A5 still holds its head up well. And the RS7 might be the best looking sedan on the road. I am lukewarm on the A/S 7 but the flared body on the RS7 fills out the lines perfectly. Ii I had FU money I would have an RS5 and 7 and call it a day.

You would think Audi as the up and comer would be discounted their cars to buy share. But instead they don't offer much of a discount and say take it or leave it. I assume the strategy is working. On the other hand, the more established BMW and Benz brands are discounting the hell out of their cars.

In the end, BMW and Benz are in the same boat and are fighting against Audi's rise to the top. All of this competition is just awesome for us lovers of German cars.

Mark K commented:
February 21, 2013, 10:51 am

I don't agree, but it has nothing to do with status symbols. See, most vomit-inducing politicians you regularly see on TV or hear on the radio could probably be snappy, funny and cool guys if it weren't for the fact that they must appeal to mediocrity (read: majority) if they want to get elected. You wouldn't sit in a bar for couple of hours with that guy, would you? I know I wouldn't.

Well, the same has to happen if MB and BMW want to catch attention of majority - they'll have to mediocritise their wares. And I, for one, am not happy with that.

Mark K commented:
February 21, 2013, 10:54 am

Yeah, especially those involving dromedaries on a Third-World street.

Monsignor commented:
February 21, 2013, 2:48 pm

guys, Mercedes is trying really hard. Good for them and their efforts. I'm flattered that they picked us as their main competitor when they prance around as the pinnacle of luxury and performance. Let it be known, Mercedes has declared BMW comparable to the pinnacle of luxury and perfor//Mance

dtc100 commented:
February 21, 2013, 4:10 pm

Only because Lexus fell behind, otherwise they would have picked Lexus, or whichever is in the top two.

MB is trying harder in price cutting. But both MB and BMW are trying to appeal to the masses. Giving that you can see both brands littered in the streets where their markets are, exclusivity and sense of pride is hard to come by.

So the notion that MB cutting price more and hurting its image more, is a good observation probably only should be made by Audi drivers, who neither a BMW driver, nor an MB driver should care so much of anyway.

That is until the day I decide to pay a lot more for an equivalent Audi, then I will have to convince myself I am truly special in the Audi.

mr29 commented:
February 21, 2013, 4:14 pm

with discounts like that yea they would outsell bmw but lose the brand image

Sent from my XT557 using Bimmer App

kobechrome commented:
February 21, 2013, 4:17 pm

This is the 2nd year in a row Lexus lost the top spot after 11 years in a row on top.

bzcat commented:
February 21, 2013, 6:12 pm

Does the Mercedes number include Sprinter?

Edit: Looks like it... so BMW still "sold" more passenger vehicles.

"Sold" because evidently, there are about 6,000 unregistered BMWs with punched warranty being pushed into dealer demo inventory or loaner fleets.

smashhell commented:
February 23, 2013, 1:00 am

They are really giving that much discount?
So if I walk into a Mercedes dealer right low I would be able to get $12k off a C63 or $20k off a E63/CLS63?
That would be crazy.

K-A commented:
February 23, 2013, 7:27 am

Put it this way, in 2010 when the W212 body style just came out, I still got $6K off MSRP on my loaded E350.

In 2011, summer, no incentives, no big game-plan, they offered me $10K off a $58K newer E350. Since then, I've seen even better discounts on E350's. Getting 20% off a mid-level M-B, or even more off a high MSRP car (AMG's sometimes get crazy big discounts especially) isn't taboo.

As great a deal I got on my F10, even with the most aggressive discounts and incentives there's no way you'll see anywhere near 20% off a 535i.

eazy commented:
February 23, 2013, 8:11 am

This year Lexus is going to be involve for luxury sales crown since they revamp their whole car line up

dtc100 commented:
February 23, 2013, 1:23 pm

The first month sales can hardly predict the whole year, but if the pattern continues, yes Lexus can be in the contention.

sf_loft commented:
February 23, 2013, 2:21 pm

+1

BMW and MB are fighting it out for sales #'s in the U.S. because it is their largest market next to China. Audi is already #2 in worldwide sales of premium automobiles behind BMW, just by ~2k cars, at the end of last year. They've already surpassed MB long ago by entering the Chinese market aggressively. MB and BMW has very little room to grow at the top, so they have to sell down market to maintain their lead in the U.S. By heavily discounting their cars, it is the only way they can get new customers who would otherwise buy a cheaper, more bang for the buck equivalent, Lexus or Infiniti. If anything, Audi will hurt BMW sales and allow MB to reach the top. With both Lexus and Infiniti revamping their lineup, who knows what will happen. It's all in good competition and I could care less. When I shop for a car, I don't look at who's #1 and more about styling, performance, and luxury.

P.S. Styling is subjective. Some like conservative and others want to see a level of flamboyance, like MB, when buying a luxury brand.

JayKayo commented:
February 25, 2013, 9:48 pm

http://carsort.com/compare/Mercedes-...s-Toyota-Camry
Heard somewhere also that the C-class is worse than the 3-series.

sf_loft commented:
February 26, 2013, 3:17 am

Thanks for sending that link, now I know which car review site to never go to

http://carsort.com/compare/BMW-3-Ser...s-Benz-C-Class