Diesel-powered BMW 328d debut at NY Auto Show

by Tim Jones on March 14, 2013, 10:06 am
Diesel Powered BMW 328d

The New York Auto Show is just a few weeks away and BMW has teased out the details of what will be on display. The big news is for 3 series drivers waiting for an oil burning variant. The 328d will make is US debut at the auto show and Bimmerfest.com will be there to cover it.

The diesel-powered BMW 328d will make its U.S. debut at this year's New York International Auto Show, joining the BMW 3 Series lineup and strengthening BMW's position as one of the country's most efficient automakers. The BMW 328d will be powered by a TwinPower Turbo 4 cylinder engine, delivering 180 hp and an impressive 280 lb-ft of torque propelling the vehicle from 0 to 60 mph in about 7.2 seconds while getting mileage that could well exceed 40 mpg (official US EPA estimates will be available closer to the launch of the 328d). With the hallmark performance of a BMW 3 Series and increased efficiency of a diesel engine, the BMW 328d will serve as the new benchmark in its class.

We will be on hand to get up close and personal with the 328d. If you have any specific questions about the diesel F30 3 series post them and we will do our best to get them answered.

Read more about BMW at the NY Auto Show


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100 responses to Diesel-powered BMW 328d debut at NY Auto Show

chris328 commented:
March 14, 2013, 10:15 am

so its got 50 less hp than the 328, but 50 more torque... weird
tim330i commented:
March 14, 2013, 10:18 am

That is typical for a diesel engine from what I've seen.

HP is a function of TQ over speed or something like that. Better explanation here - http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=659352

Diesels are not typically high revving so less HP. At least that is what I think, could be totally wrong.

Tim
mohrgan commented:
March 14, 2013, 11:41 am

Unlike the 3 Series GT, this interests me!
d geek commented:
March 14, 2013, 12:48 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by tim330i View Post
That is typical for a diesel engine from what I've seen.

HP is a function of TQ over speed or something like that. Better explanation here - http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=659352

Diesels are not typically high revving so less HP. At least that is what I think, could be totally wrong.

Tim
right on
SergioK commented:
March 14, 2013, 1:14 pm

This engine with a manual transmission in a wagon with RWD would be a win for BMW drivers in the U.S.

But, that's probably not going to happen.
Robert A commented:
March 14, 2013, 2:40 pm

Have you driven a diesel with a manual in the city? It's not much fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SergioK View Post
This engine with a manual transmission in a wagon with RWD would be a win for BMW drivers in the U.S.

But, that's probably not going to happen.
tturedraider commented:
March 14, 2013, 2:59 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by SergioK View Post
This engine with a manual transmission in a wagon with RWD would be a win for BMW drivers in the U.S.

But, that's probably not going to happen.
Yeah, for each of the three buyers that comprise that market.
metrathon commented:
March 14, 2013, 2:59 pm

Sign me up. Don't care about HP, we're all doing max 80 MPH anyway. Gimme that torque and the great mileage.
Jamesonsviggen commented:
March 14, 2013, 3:00 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris328 View Post
so its got 50 less hp than the 328, but 50 more torque... weird
Check your math, it's less than 30 more tq and 60hp less.

But we all know it's the actual power that will matter as dynos show the N20 is making the tq that the diesel is claiming. In reality, the diesel might be making the same torque as the N55.
metrathon commented:
March 14, 2013, 3:06 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
In reality, the diesel might be making the same torque as the N55.
I don't think they underrated this engine as well. While 5.8s for 240/260 it's definitely a (beautiful) lie, 7.2s sounds about right for 170/280.
Jamesonsviggen commented:
March 14, 2013, 3:11 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by metrathon View Post
I don't think they underrated this engine as well. While 5.8s for 240/260 it's definitely a (beautiful) lie, 7.2s sounds about right for 170/280.
It's different with diesels and the low redline.

It can still make N55 torque and be that slow.

According to BMW it is a tenth slower than the 320i which they rate at 180/200.

I am just saying, until I see magazine tests and dynos, we are only getting half the story.
JoeFromPA commented:
March 14, 2013, 3:21 pm

#1 - interested in tunability...lot of turbo diesels nowadays get a real nice HP spike
#2 - This will be ruined if it carries a hefty premium over the 328i
#3 - I'm concerned about weight balance since diesels are usually much heavier due to the heavier engine and heavier support around that heavier engine
#4 - Diesel needs to offer enough of a MPG advantage over the n20/n26 to make it worthwhile to drop 60hp and lose some of the other advantages
raleedy commented:
March 14, 2013, 3:25 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by SergioK View Post
This engine with a manual transmission in a wagon with RWD would be a win for half a dozen BMW drivers in the U.S.

But, that's probably not going to happen.
Fixed it for you.
metrathon commented:
March 14, 2013, 3:34 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by raleedy View Post
Fixed it for you.
tru. and sad.
JoeFromPA commented:
March 14, 2013, 3:35 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
It's different with diesels and the low redline.

It can still make N55 torque and be that slow.

According to BMW it is a tenth slower than the 320i which they rate at 180/200.

I am just saying, until I see magazine tests and dynos, we are only getting half the story.
That's because torque is not a measure of work performed, whereas HP is.

An 1000hp/10 ft/lb motor will tear it up. A 10hp / 1000 lb/ft motor will be a dog.

180 hp 0-60 in 7.2 seconds for a RWD car is about right.
Chris90 commented:
March 14, 2013, 3:41 pm

Interesting that the new diesel in the VW Golf is the same, 180 hp, 280 lb-ft torque.
raleedy commented:
March 14, 2013, 3:46 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by metrathon View Post
tru. and sad.
Couldn't agree more. I'd be one of the half dozen.
raleedy commented:
March 14, 2013, 3:47 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
#3 - I'm concerned about weight balance since diesels are usually much heavier due to the heavier engine and heavier support around that heavier engine
You can probably get a pretty good sense of that by checking out the specs of the 320d at BMW.com.
d geek commented:
March 14, 2013, 5:42 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
...
#3 - I'm concerned about weight balance since diesels are usually much heavier due to the heavier engine and heavier support around that heavier engine
#4 - Diesel needs to offer enough of a MPG advantage over the n20/n26 to make it worthwhile to drop 60hp and lose some of the other advantages
as posted above- check out bmw.com and compare the 320d and 328i
the d is 15 kg lighter than the i
the d uses roughly 30% less fuel
d geek commented:
March 14, 2013, 5:45 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
Interesting that the new diesel in the VW Golf is the same, 180 hp, 280 lb-ft torque.
close: 170 and 258
ND40oz commented:
March 14, 2013, 6:01 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
That's the old Mk VI GTD, the new Mk VII is supposedly rated at 180/280: http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/v...eva-2013-02-21, which is right on par with the F20 120D.
d geek commented:
March 14, 2013, 6:05 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
That's the old Mk VI GTD, the new Mk VII is supposedly rated at 180/280: http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/v...eva-2013-02-21, which is right on par with the F20 120D.
Is the MkVII scheduled to come to the states? At tdiclub.com I saw discussion of the Mk VI.
Chris90 commented:
March 14, 2013, 6:12 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
Is the MkVII scheduled to come to the states? At tdiclub.com I saw discussion of the Mk VI.
The MkVII GTI is coming summer 2014, the GTD supposedly is coming, but that hasn't been confirmed by VW officially, and we don't know if it'll have the 180 hp diesel in the US market.

VW tends to stiff the US market on performance.
ND40oz commented:
March 14, 2013, 6:25 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
Is the MkVII scheduled to come to the states? At tdiclub.com I saw discussion of the Mk VI.
Europe is getting GTI in May, last year VW told C&D that it would be Q3 '13 in the states but it looks like they're not sticking to that schedule anymore: http://blog.caranddriver.com/new-vol...-s-until-2014/

Now the reports are they'll build it in Mexico alongside the Jetta, no thanks.
DJ Vitamin Zee commented:
March 14, 2013, 7:05 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by raleedy View Post
Couldn't agree more. I'd be one of the half dozen.
I would be too. :-\

At least they should offer the wagon in RWD like the sedan, instead of only x-Drive. I can understand the manual thing since they are not offering any diesels in manuals it seems...
Saintor commented:
March 14, 2013, 7:48 pm

There was one at Montreal Auto Show.

If half of its additional cost (including interests and tax) over a 320i doesn't pay itself in 3 years, then it is another useless toy for gadget lovers.
bzcat commented:
March 14, 2013, 7:59 pm

BMW hasn't announced prices yet but I'm sure it will cost more than the 328i, which I'm guessing is the main reason why BMW felt necessary to badge the car 328d instead of the more appropriate 320d. BMW probably thinks Americans are more likely to pay the diesel price premium if it has a higher number.
Robert A commented:
March 14, 2013, 8:00 pm

Well clearly many people in other parts of the world have done the analysis and concluded that diesels are not another toy for gadget lovers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
There was one at Montreal Auto Show.

If half of its additional cost (including interests and tax) over a 320i doesn't pay itself in 3 years, then it is another useless toy for gadget lovers.
DJ Vitamin Zee commented:
March 14, 2013, 8:12 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert A View Post
Well clearly many people in other parts of the world have done the analysis and concluded that diesels are not another toy for gadget lovers.
I believe that in Europe diesels do not sell for the premium that BMW is trying to cram down our throats here.
Robert A commented:
March 14, 2013, 8:16 pm

Hopefully they learned some lessons since the 335d. I'm wagering that they'll price the 328d competitively to gain some market penetration.
3ismagic# commented:
March 14, 2013, 8:26 pm

The success of this car will depend entirely on the pricing. If it is priced close to the 320i it will be hugely successful. If it is priced north of the 328i it will fail.
Saintor commented:
March 14, 2013, 8:27 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert A View Post
Well clearly many people in other parts of the world have done the analysis and concluded that diesels are not another toy for gadget lovers.
"in other parts of the world" as you say.
Robert A commented:
March 14, 2013, 8:28 pm

I think BMW knows what they're doing.
Chris90 commented:
March 14, 2013, 8:29 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
Europe is getting GTI in May, last year VW told C&D that it would be Q3 '13 in the states but it looks like they're not sticking to that schedule anymore: http://blog.caranddriver.com/new-vol...-s-until-2014/

Now the reports are they'll build it in Mexico alongside the Jetta, no thanks.
The Jetta's poor quality is to do with cost cutting, not Mexico. The new Jetta was redesigned to be cheap to make, that's why it sucks. The Golf won't get this cost cutting.
Chris90 commented:
March 14, 2013, 8:29 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert A View Post
Hopefully they learned some lessons since the 335d. I'm wagering that they'll price the 328d competitively to gain some market penetration.
How much of a premium was the 335d over 335i?
Robert A commented:
March 14, 2013, 8:34 pm

If you normalize for the mandated automatic, I think it was around $2k. That was before subtraction of the rebates and incentives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
How much of a premium was the 335d over 335i?
Robert A commented:
March 14, 2013, 8:35 pm

And my wife's Mark V Jetta Wagon, also built in MX, seems quite okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
The Jetta's poor quality is to do with cost cutting, not Mexico. The new Jetta was redesigned to be cheap to make, that's why it sucks. The Golf won't get this cost cutting.
ND40oz commented:
March 14, 2013, 9:07 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
The Jetta's poor quality is to do with cost cutting, not Mexico. The new Jetta was redesigned to be cheap to make, that's why it sucks. The Golf won't get this cost cutting.
Having owned a Mexican made Mk IV 1.8T, I won't be buying any other Mexican made VWs.
Jamesonsviggen commented:
March 14, 2013, 9:08 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
The Jetta's poor quality is to do with cost cutting, not Mexico. The new Jetta was redesigned to be cheap to make, that's why it sucks. The Golf won't get this cost cutting.
It's on certain levels though. The GLi and I think the Hybrid get back the independent rear end and better soft touch materials in the interior. The S and SE though, fail. My MKV SE had an interior that seemed like a price point or to above it's class.
rmorin49 commented:
March 14, 2013, 9:38 pm

When I bought my 335d BMWNA was offering a $4500 rebate. Combined with the USAA pricing I bought a $52K car for just over $44K. That said, it did not hold its value very well when I traded it 2 years later. Unfortunately diesel BMWs have not done well for BMW. The 335d was a hell of a road car, pulls like a train and cruises at 80 mph while barely turning 2K rpms. I routinely got 36-38 mpg on trips. I plan to test drive a 328d but seriously doubt I'll buy one. I'm waiting to see if Audi brings the A6 3.0 TDI to the US.
KLC commented:
March 14, 2013, 10:25 pm

I hope the pricing and mileage are good.
m8o commented:
March 14, 2013, 10:56 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmorin49 View Post
...I plan to test drive a 328d but seriously doubt I'll buy one. I'm waiting to see if Audi brings the A6 3.0 TDI to the US.
Same here now that more reliable info is coming out. I read the A6 3L TDI is coming, and the A8 and Q5 too. I'll be looking forward to trying my hand at the Q5. Guess I'll be passing on BMW diesels for at least 2014 and maybe more.
Robert A commented:
March 15, 2013, 1:53 am

A little bit about that motor.

Excerpt from Autocar's review of the 320d GT

"And there's no question that these days, BMW's 2.0 diesel motor is greying with age. It's too prominent at idle, too prominent when revved and well, just too prominent generally. It's fairly smooth and its torque curve well spread, but for a car called GT it isn't especially powerful. Performance is brisk enough for the urban battle and it's a relaxed cruiser, especially with those eight ratios, but this engine does its work without huge panache."

Instead of giving us some newer technology, BMWNA is foisting an aging diesel motor on us Yanks?
d geek commented:
March 15, 2013, 6:59 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert A View Post
...
Instead of giving us some newer technology, BMWNA is foisting an aging diesel motor on us Yanks?
Or are they bringing over a well-proven design that is low-risk?
JoeFromPA commented:
March 15, 2013, 7:05 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
Or are they bringing over a well-proven design that is low-risk?
I often look for $50k brand new cars that employ older technologies. I definitely wouldn't want to buy one of these new n20/n26 engines or the revised n55 - they aren't proven, low-risk designs!

/sarcasm
JoeFromPA commented:
March 15, 2013, 7:06 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert A View Post
I think BMW knows what they're doing.

the X6
the 5 series gran turismo
the 335d
....

Just a few models BMW has screwed up in the last 5 years or less.

They don't ALWAYS know what they are doing
d geek commented:
March 15, 2013, 7:15 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
...
the 335d
....

Just a few models BMW has screwed up in the last 5 years or less.

They don't ALWAYS know what they are doing
I don't agree that the 335d was a screw up. They brought it over to show what the capabilities of modern diesel technology a few years before the next gen chassis and engines were being introduced. This was most likely done to disprove the perception by many on this side of the pond that diesel passenger cars are slow and smokey. The e90 was replaced by the f30 and now they have a plan on bringing more diesel options for some very good reasons. If the 335d was a mistake then they wouldn't go through the costs of EPA certification for even more models.
dunderhi commented:
March 15, 2013, 8:52 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
the X6
the 5 series gran turismo
the 335d
....

Just a few models BMW has screwed up in the last 5 years or less.

They don't ALWAYS know what they are doing
I don't agree that the 335d was a screw up. They brought it over to show what the capabilities of modern diesel technology a few years before the next gen chassis and engines were being introduced. This was most likely done to disprove the perception by many on this side of the pond that diesel passenger cars are slow and smokey. The e90 was replaced by the f30 and now they have a plan on bringing more diesel options for some very good reasons. If the 335d was a mistake then they wouldn't go through the costs of EPA certification for even more models.
+1

If the 335d was a mistake, then so was the 335i, since the 4dr/auto 335i had the equivalent number of sales and it was discounted to sell for about the same price as the 335d with the ECO discount. The sales data from 335d showed BMWUSA that a diesel can compete with an equivalent gasser and thus BMW's plans to introduce even more diesels over the course of the next two years.


Production start dates for US bound BMWs

In July 2013:
328d
328d xDrive
328d xDrive Sportswagen
535d
535d xDrive

In Dec 2013:
x5d xDrive

In 2014:
740d
740d xDrive
X3d
X3d xDrive
m8o commented:
March 15, 2013, 10:52 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
If the 335d was a mistake, then so was the 335i, since the 4dr/auto 335i had the equivalent number of sales and it was discounted to sell for about the same price as the 335d with the ECO discount. The sales data from 335d showed BMWUSA that a diesel can compete with an equivalent gasser and thus BMW's plans to introduce even more diesels over the course of the next two years.
I don't mean for this to imply I'm disagreeing with most of what you say; I agree. But I am disagreeing that the impending 328d can "compete with an equivalent gasser", i.e. the 328i.

Had they [BMW] called it (and were to price it) commensurate with what it is, a 320d [w/blue tech], then what you say would cover this situation too. But, we're getting 'screwed'. And -that- is what I, and based on what I've read echoed so often lately, many have a problem with.

I'd love a 328d with performance similar to [approaching] a 328i. But I wouldn't buy a 320i (remember, that's the bargain/budget 3-series option), and I won't buy an inflated priced 328d which is a '28d' in name only, w/o the performance worthy of holding that name!
need4speed commented:
March 15, 2013, 11:57 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert A View Post
I think BMW knows what they're doing.
I'm not so sure sometimes. N4S
Saintor commented:
March 15, 2013, 4:11 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
+1
X3d
X3d xDrive
Does this suggest a X3d RWD? I know that US gets a X1 RWD but a pricier X3 RWD is weird..
d geek commented:
March 15, 2013, 9:49 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
The MkVII GTI is coming summer 2014, the GTD supposedly is coming, but that hasn't been confirmed by VW officially, and we don't know if it'll have the 180 hp diesel in the US market.

VW tends to stiff the US market on performance.
I stand corrected according to this article:
http://www.************/news/2013/3/...erica-7713256/
BB_cuda commented:
March 17, 2013, 9:31 am

Just need to correct the physics here please. Work is energy in units of force times distance. Torque coincidentally is the same units as work but represents something different entirely. HP is power which is work divided by the time to do the work (Force X distance/ time). Torque gets you out of the hole in the quarter mile, HP accelerates you and produces the top end speed at the end of the quarter mile.

Diesel engine blocks are cast from Alusil alloy albeit likely a heavier/beefier casting to deal with the higher compression ratio. Also the internals are of forged steel (crank and rods) and forged aluinum pistons. While heavier than the i version, i wouldn't think the difference is dramatic as its a 4 pot not a 6. I'm told my 33D engine is ~ 200 lb heavier than the 335i engine or at least the whole car is 200 lb heavier.
d geek commented:
March 17, 2013, 9:57 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_cuda View Post
...
Diesel engine blocks are cast from Alusil alloy albeit likely a heavier/beefier casting to deal with the higher compression ratio. Also the internals are of forged steel (crank and rods) and forged aluinum pistons. While heavier than the i version, i wouldn't think the difference is dramatic as its a 4 pot not a 6. I'm told my 33D engine is ~ 200 lb heavier than the 335i engine or at least the whole car is 200 lb heavier.
Looking at the model comparisons on bmw.com, this doesn't always seem to be the case. The 320d is lighter than the 328i. The Euro 535d is heavier than the 535i by 25kg.

As a side note, it is amazing to see the comparison between the 535d and 535i. The d puts out 7 more hp, over 50% more torque, is nearly 1/2 sec quicker from 0 to 100kmh, and uses nearly 30% less fuel

The 530d (apparently the engine we will get over here in our "535d") does pretty well against the 535i too. Only 0.1sec slower in 0 to 100 kmh and uses more than 30% less fuel than the 535i.
Alexmg23 commented:
March 17, 2013, 6:26 pm

Where's my new 335d?
d geek commented:
March 17, 2013, 6:31 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexmg23 View Post
Where's my new 335d?
Not to be found anywhere in the world!
undyingluv commented:
March 18, 2013, 11:31 pm

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/15/r...car-ever-made/
bzcat commented:
March 19, 2013, 7:25 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ismagic# View Post
The success of this car will depend entirely on the pricing. If it is priced close to the 320i it will be hugely successful. If it is priced north of the 328i it will fail.
I agree... but that being said, if BMW intended the price this car close to 320i, they wouldn't have rebadged it to 328d.

The rebadging of the car from 320d to 328d for US market suggests that BMW agrees with you that selling 320d at higher price than 328i is unwise. But their sales planning team must have concluded that selling a "328d" at a nominal premium is feasible even if the car is really a rebadged 320d. The badge change is just a way to align consumer expectation with actual price.
DerekS commented:
March 19, 2013, 8:10 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_cuda View Post
While heavier than the i version, i wouldn't think the difference is dramatic as its a 4 pot not a 6. I'm told my 33D engine is ~ 200 lb heavier than the 335i engine or at least the whole car is 200 lb heavier.
The E90-335d weighs 243 lbs more than the 335i, with that extra weight being evenly split between front and rear axles, resulting in an overall 50/50 weight distribution.
I have some regrets after selling my 2009 E90-335d, but the F30-335i is a better car overall (except for the increased fuel consumption).
undyingluv commented:
March 21, 2013, 12:18 am

http://jalopnik.com/president-obamas...bein-456773406
hotrod2448 commented:
March 21, 2013, 9:45 am

I feel this is going to be underpowered for what the US market expects out of a BMW these days. Something more along the lines of 220-240hp, 350lb/ft would still give good mileage while having decent performance, especially if it is going to be priced similarly to the 328i.

I wonder if the Eco credit will apply to it as well? That may be their plan for pricing it similarly to the 328i on paper while still being able to actually sell it for less.
raleedy commented:
March 21, 2013, 11:33 am

+1. I think most manufacturers make every effort to capture the benefit of government incentives for themselves.
d geek commented:
March 21, 2013, 12:52 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by raleedy View Post
+1. I think most manufacturers make every effort to capture the benefit of government incentives for themselves.
I don't follow. Eco Credit is a BMW program, not the government.
Robert A commented:
March 21, 2013, 1:08 pm

As the lessor, I think BMW captures the tax credits otherwise available to purchasers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
I don't follow. Eco Credit is a BMW program, not the government.
GTitis2013 commented:
March 22, 2013, 12:02 am

I'm not sure if this hasn't been mentioned here yet - I don't understand why BMW wouldn't bring the (European) biturbo 325d here instead. With its 218hp and 332ft-lb of torque it wouldn't be such a stretch to call it 328d and it seems more fitting to US market demands. It must have been to expensive to get this engine approved for the US.
raleedy commented:
March 22, 2013, 2:16 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
I don't follow. Eco Credit is a BMW program, not the government.
If that's the case, I misunderstood where the credit is coming from. Then it's just a price adjustment if it's from BMW, with the same economic result for BMW as if the retail price were set to maximize the net price to BMW after a government incentive.

What I was trying to say earlier is that if a government incentive of, say, $1,000 is offered, the seller will set the price $1,000 above the market, thus effectively getting the benefit of the incentive. If the "incentive" is coming from BMW itself, the same arithmetic applies as far as the buyer is concerned, but the seller gets no benefit from the incentive (other than what it could get from any discount or price reduction in higher volume).
raleedy commented:
March 22, 2013, 2:19 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTitis2013 View Post
I'm not sure if this hasn't been mentioned here yet - I don't understand why BMW wouldn't bring the (European) biturbo 325d here instead. With its 218hp and 332ft-lb of torque it wouldn't be such a stretch to call it 328d and it seems more fitting to US market demands. It must have been to expensive to get this engine approved for the US.
I'm personally happy to se the engine that will do the most for fleet fuel efficiency and provide the highest MPG for the model itself. I never understood what sense it made to sell a more powerful, less efficient diesel in the US (where buyers really don't appreciate diesel anyway,and where there are no tax subsidies for diesel fuel). The gasoline engine cars address that market segment adequately.
ND40oz commented:
March 22, 2013, 10:55 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by raleedy View Post
I'm personally happy to se the engine that will do the most for fleet fuel efficiency and provide the highest MPG for the model itself. I never understood what sense it made to sell a more powerful, less efficient diesel in the US (where buyers really don't appreciate diesel anyway,and where there are no tax subsidies for diesel fuel). The gasoline engine cars address that market segment adequately.
The 316d through 320d all have the same mpg ratings, the 320d EfficientDynamics is the one that would be best for the fleet average if that's the only thing that mattered, the biggest problem will probably be selling enough of them to affect the fleet average. The biturbo N47 would put the diesel on par with the N20 328i when it came to performance and is only slightly less efficient (6% based on the UK mpg ratings) then the single turbo variant. Instead we have a 328d that the 320i outperforms but will probably end up costing more then the 328i. If instead it used the biturbo N47, it would perform on par with the 328i, with a significant fuel efficiency advantage and they could justify charging a premium on top of the 328i. At least, I think that's what he was getting at.
GTitis2013 commented:
March 22, 2013, 1:34 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
The 316d through 320d all have the same mpg ratings, the 320d EfficientDynamics is the one that would be best for the fleet average if that's the only thing that mattered, the biggest problem will probably be selling enough of them to affect the fleet average. The biturbo N47 would put the diesel on par with the N20 328i when it came to performance and is only slightly less efficient (6% based on the UK mpg ratings) then the single turbo variant. Instead we have a 328d that the 320i outperforms but will probably end up costing more then the 328i. If instead it used the biturbo N47, it would perform on par with the 328i, with a significant fuel efficiency advantage and they could justify charging a premium on top of the 328i. At least, I think that's what he was getting at.
Yes. That's exactly what I was alluding to. Fuel efficiency doesn't differ largely between the 4-cylinder offerings (at least on paper with disciplined driving). How can you convince the diesel sceptic public here by selling a decent but basic "workhorse" 320 diesel rebadged as a 328d and likely priced in the territory of the high-performing 328 N20 gasoline option. It doesn't make sense to me. The biturbo 4 seems a much better fit, but BMW may have found it to costly to make it available here.
d geek commented:
March 22, 2013, 3:16 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
...The biturbo N47 would put the diesel on par with the N20 328i when it came to performance and is only slightly less efficient (6% based on the UK mpg ratings) then the single turbo variant. Instead we have a 328d that the 320i outperforms but will probably end up costing more then the 328i. If instead it used the biturbo N47, it would perform on par with the 328i, with a significant fuel efficiency advantage and they could justify charging a premium on top of the 328i...
Two things I noticed about the 325d shown on the BMW UK site:
  • not offerred with auto even as an option
  • blueperformance not offerred
Therefore unfortunately this will not be the one brought over. Strangely enough this model does not show up on the German website configurator at all
Robert A commented:
March 22, 2013, 3:33 pm

You're right. It's very odd that there's no automatic.
ND40oz commented:
March 22, 2013, 4:31 pm

The 525d and 125d use the same engine and offer both the auto and sport auto transmission options. May be a UK only model and it only made sense to bring over one transmission choice.
Robert A commented:
March 22, 2013, 6:21 pm

I agree that they make many mistakes in the short run, but they know what they're doing over the long term.
Quote:
Originally Posted by need4speed View Post
I'm not so sure sometimes. N4S
MarcL commented:
March 26, 2013, 6:43 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by metrathon View Post
Sign me up. Don't care about HP, we're all doing max 80 MPH anyway. Gimme that torque and the great mileage.
Yes, this is an exciting car. I own a 2011 335d and am pretty much addicted to the massive torque (425 ft/lbs). And I actually get better than 36 highway. I would bet the 328d will easily exceed 40 on the highway and still have ample power. Diesel is the best of both worlds.
m8o commented:
March 26, 2013, 7:09 pm

But 'massive torque' and 328d cannot go in the same sentence...

It's a '328d' in name only. It's really a 320d, with an engine barely having more torque than the N20 gasser engine at its peak at low/mid-low RPM, but it runs out of breath i.e. RPM range far sooner than N20. So while it might pull say around 2K rpm ever so slightly more than the gasser N20, it certainly won't be doing that around 4K [or even a bit over 3K? wondering] and higher.

I'm disappointed as you may have guessed...
Mark K commented:
March 26, 2013, 7:34 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcL View Post
Yes, this is an exciting car. I own a 2011 335d and am pretty much addicted to the massive torque (425 ft/lbs). And I actually get better than 36 highway. I would bet the 328d will easily exceed 40 on the highway and still have ample power. Diesel is the best of both worlds.
I will not be surprised if BMW pulls 50 mpg with that engine in real world. They always had at least 10-15% fuel economy advantage over similarly performing (bhp/tq numbers) VW diesels. If "new" 2.0 140hp VW diesel has no problem going 50 mpg while cruising on flat freeway at no more than 70 mph, then I can see 328d doing 55 mpg in same conditions no problem at all.
The Swede commented:
March 26, 2013, 7:48 pm

Are you sure that the 28d is a rebadged 20d and not a detuned 30d (in order to meet American environmental standards)? It sounds strange that they would take a 20d and just rebadge it. What would be the point for that?

Anyway, I drive a F11 530d with the 6MT as my daily driver and I can tell you that this engine pulls really really sweet. Even if it would be slightly detuned, I'm sure it's a winner anyway.
Robert A commented:
March 26, 2013, 7:50 pm

The announced torque and HP specs are consistent with the 320d.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Swede View Post
Are you sure that the 28d is a rebadged 20d and not a detuned 30d (in order to meet American environmental standards)? It sounds strange that they would take a 20d and just rebadge it. What would be the point for that?

Anyway, I drive a F11 530d with the 6MT as my daily driver and I can tell you that this engine pulls really really sweet. Even if it would be slightly detuned, I'm sure it's a winner anyway.
d geek commented:
March 26, 2013, 8:40 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Swede View Post
...It sounds strange that they would take a 20d and just rebadge it. What would be the point for that? ....
So they can charge a premium to an unwitting market.
m8o commented:
March 26, 2013, 9:10 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Swede View Post
Are you sure that the 28d is a rebadged 20d and not a detuned 30d (in order to meet American environmental standards)? ...
If that were the case I would not be disappointed. As I'm pretty sure the 'detuning' would just be plumbing on the outside of the 6-cyl engine, if not just software. And after warrantee is up I could bring the performance back up to 330d or higher levels; and I'd have it in F31 form.

Even if we were to get the dual turbo engine from the 325d I could see the step up to a 328d in name, given the 'bluetec' that will need to be added. But I've read many times that could not be possible to make and be EPA certified in the US. So alas, we have BMW calling a 320d a 328d because '28' has branding history in the USA w/o any performance step up over what the rest of the world gets in 320d name, with assumed pricing commensurate to '28' level of performance however without providing it. Arguably, that's auto-marketing criminality.

Since BMW has move to forced induction, their vehicle badge is relative to a level of performance now, not engine displacement. In the realm of gassers in the US there is a 320i, 328i, and 335i. And all reports are that in the realm of diesel what is forming here is we'll be given a '328d' in name, with a performance level commensurate with a 320i not 328i, but pricing commensurate with the 328i.

How's that for a kick in the nuggets?!
Teemo Panda commented:
March 26, 2013, 9:24 pm

The main question is, the starting price of the 328d,
I really hope it won't cost more than the 335i or an arm and a leg
Robert A commented:
March 26, 2013, 9:28 pm

If European pricing is any guide, it should be slightly less than the 328i. But I'm guessing the US price will be about the same as the 328i. It can't be too high or they won't sell enough to absorb the importation costs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamigawa120 View Post
The main question is, the starting price of the 328d,
I really hope it won't cost more than the 335i or an arm and a leg
d geek commented:
March 26, 2013, 9:38 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert A View Post
If European pricing is any guide, it should be slightly less than the 328i. But I'm guessing the US price will be about the same as the 328i. It can't be too high or they won't sell enough to absorb the importation costs.
When you outfit the Euro 320d with auto trans and blueperformance emissions package it is really close to the 328i pricing.

They will most likely soften the blow with the ecocredit
d geek commented:
March 27, 2013, 10:15 am

Some of our questions are answered here:
http://www.thedieseldriver.com/2013/...d-intro-video/

<$40k for the sedan (here's hoping for the ecocredit)
>40mpg EPA highway
tim330i commented:
March 27, 2013, 10:21 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JQZmC1HPQI

Sounds and driving of the 328d
d geek commented:
March 27, 2013, 12:47 pm

thanks, Tim! sounds good to me
yogibearstie commented:
May 7, 2013, 12:14 pm

Vegas to Orange County, CA 39.3 mpg in my 335d driving 85 mph most of the way.
skiVT commented:
May 19, 2013, 2:34 pm

Looks like the base 328xd SW will have one difference from gasser SW. My order print out from the dealer has sport steering wheel and sport transmission with paddle shifters listed and I did not opt for the sport line package. This is exciting for me as I wanted the sport steering wheel but did not want to get any of the special lines because they come with 18" wheels.
d geek commented:
May 19, 2013, 3:00 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by skiVT View Post
Looks like the base 328xd SW will have one difference from gasser SW. My order print out from the dealer has sport steering wheel and sport transmission with paddle shifters listed and I did not opt for the sport line package. This is exciting for me as I wanted the sport steering wheel but did not want to get any of the special lines because they come with 18" wheels.
very cool!! can you share that order printout with us?

Welcome to the 'Fest
skiVT commented:
May 19, 2013, 3:08 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
very cool!! can you share that order printout with us?

Welcome to the 'Fest
Will do so today when I get a chance. And thanks for the welcome
skiVT commented:
May 19, 2013, 3:26 pm

see below
skiVT commented:
May 19, 2013, 3:27 pm

figured out attachment, see below
ynguldyn commented:
May 19, 2013, 10:56 pm

You need to change the sharing settings on the photo.
skiVT commented:
May 20, 2013, 6:07 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
You need to change the sharing settings on the photo.
Thanks. It should be viewable now.
jplev commented:
May 20, 2013, 11:00 am

Can you share any pricing info and how you did on your deal compared to invoice or MSRP? I haven't found any pricing news anywhere online yet.
m8o commented:
May 20, 2013, 11:05 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by skiVT View Post
Thanks. It should be viewable now.
It's not. You may wanna look at this thread with a browser not logged in to Flickr to see what we see. Then use the browser that is logged in to fix the permissions.
jplev commented:
May 20, 2013, 11:06 am

If you click on that image, it brings you to a Flickr page where you can see the actual image (at least that worked for me).
skiVT commented:
May 20, 2013, 12:39 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by jplev View Post
Can you share any pricing info and how you did on your deal compared to invoice or MSRP? I haven't found any pricing news anywhere online yet.
I have no pricing information and have not made a deal. That will occur once pricing is announced. I believe my order is simply in the system awaiting an allocation.
skiVT commented:
May 20, 2013, 12:44 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by jplev View Post
If you click on that image, it brings you to a Flickr page where you can see the actual image (at least that worked for me).

This
des16 commented:
May 20, 2013, 1:57 pm

Would you mind sharing the dealer's name. I live in VT and would like to place an order for a car as well. Thanks.