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Don't do this - M3 Cliff Dive

9K views 56 replies 32 participants last post by  BMWSalesGuyFL 
#1 ·


Wow. He didn't take the best line on that turn, did he? :yikes:
 
#2 ·
Ouch. Turned in a little too early or just plain overcooked it. I can feel the guy's panic when you see him cranking the wheel but the car's not turning. I've had one of those "oh crap" moments before but thankfully it was on a track with some runoff (stopped 3 feet short of a wall).

Wonder what type of car he was following?
 
#3 · (Edited)
The guy was probably driving with the DSC off, obviously was in way over his head and had no idea how to recover from an understeer situation.
Can't tell if he got off the throttle or hit the brakes.

CA
 
#6 ·
The guy was probably driving with the DSC off, obviously was in way over his head and had no idea how to recover from an understeer situation.
Once he lost control right around :40-:41, what should he have done?

To me it seems that he just had too much speed to take that line. Should have started all the way to the left...but of course going around a bend on a public road....also not the best idea.

If you were in his position at :40, what would you do?
 
#15 ·
Carfax -"Minor collision. Touch up paint. Good as new"

I really didn't like the way he was following the road throughout his drive. Obviously going too fast for conditions, especially on a narrow winding mountainside road that he didn't seem too familar with.

I'm not sure he would have had enough time to correct the car before losing control. He should have controlled the car better for the conditions before he got into trouble.
He was not familiar with the road (based on his driving) and definitely was trying to play catch up with the guy in front of him...he was swaying too much before the last turn.

Would love to see the original thread with the comments.
 
#11 ·
I really didn't like the way he was following the road throughout his drive. Obviously going too fast for conditions, especially on a narrow winding mountainside road that he didn't seem too familar with.

I'm not sure he would have had enough time to correct the car before losing control. He should have controlled the car better for the conditions before he got into trouble.
 
#12 ·
That video displeases me greatly
 
#14 ·
That video pisses me off as someone who enjoys bombing alot of back roads.

He appears unfamiliar with the road and enters a blind curve, HOT, with a CLIFF on the other side? wtf? without stablity control on?

You don't go into a blind curve on the inside lane with excess speed on a public road. Not ever. You have no room to correct yourself in the turn.

You don't go hot into curves on a roadway with cliffs on one side when you aren't familiar with the road. Not ever.

You don't turn DSC off on unfamiliar roads with cliffs on one side. DSC off is to allow instability. You don't turn it off with cliffs around when you aren't really familiar with the road. Ever.

...

The guy is lucky to be alive. Those rocks could have easily taken out the driver's side altogether. He also deserves to have any insurance claim denied - he should eat the $20-30k cost of that car.
 
#21 · (Edited)
would this be considered power understeer?

I watched that old school handling video, very cool.

I couldn't make out both explanations for correction though.

Missed the first one. The second is, in severe circumstances, to dramatically lift off the throttle....?

What was the first suggestion?

I suppose there are a lot variables and remedies can vary....

tap brakes (assuming of course your understeer isn't caused by overbraking)...

or turning into wider path, i.e. turning into the skid (instead of turning steering wheel in opposite direction to counteract typical power oversteer)

This guy probably couldn't have corrected because he didn't have enough road to turn into the skid and/or lift off throttle.
 
#26 ·
Understeer is casued by insufficient traction on the front wheels. To regain traction in front, you need to transfer weight from the rear to the front by either reducing throttle or using the brakes, depending on how much weight transfer you need. This has the side-effect of reducing weight on the rear wheels, which may lose traction as a result and swing around (e.g. the infamous porsche 911 trailing throttle oversteer).

However your front tires may have found grip by this time, allowing you to counter steer back into the line. Now you need to plant the rear tires again, and you do so by getting back on the gas (or just let up on the brakes) to transfer weight back to the rear.

That's all in an ideal situation and happens in just a second or two. In the video you can see the driver frantically trying to steer deeper into the turn so he obviously had some time to react, his reaction was just completely wrong. He was probably too hot and would've gone over anyway, but his buddy made it through the turn so there's a chance he could've saved it if he knew what he was doing.

Again, everybody should join the BMW CCA and attend a safety school or track event where they'll go into this stuff in detail and you can practice in a safe and controlled environment with an instructor in the passenger seat.
 
#29 ·
IIRC, the e90 335i was as fast as most e46 m3's factory vs. factory when driven by professional drivers.

I think the even bigger difference was that the 335i handled inexpert drivers well and allowed them to achieve really significant speeds (and carry them through turns) more than the e46 m3 allowed the same inexpert driver to do...

Today people often think of "driver's cars" as relating to steering feel, brake pedal feel, etc.

But the longer lasting definition is a car that requires a real driver to make it perform. Like the older (pre 99) 911's. I think the e46 m3 falls into that category too.
 
#23 ·
I think it's ironic that he was trapped by understeer. The natural reaction to understeer is the correct one: oh crap, then let go of the gas. This is why most street cars are built to understeer rather than oversteer. Oversteer recovery is more complex.

Anyway, nobody should be driving like this on public roads. Race drivers do not even drive like this on tracks they have never driven on. It takes many laps to know the relationship between the track and your particular car. As in most other aspects of life, instant gratification rarely pays off.
 
#39 ·
Where did you get that internet meme? It seems like you found a place that will make them on demand?
 
#35 ·
I could be wrong but I believe they deployed when the car was traveling at high speed and began tilting quickly. I think the car sensed it was flipping over. Could be wrong.

I agree though - i really thought I was watching someone pass away when viewing the video. The fact he walked away is just ridiculous. Flying over a cliff at significant speed, sideways, is a recipe for at least an emergency heli-vac usually...
 
#36 ·
Btw, i looked closely at those tires and don't really see any dominant lettering on the sidewall. I don't recognize them and I tend to recognize street tires.

Also, either their tread is gone or they are a DOT race tire. Not really sure which quite frankly.
 
#37 · (Edited)
1. No racing on public roads.
2. No racing on public roads.
3. Safety of others above all. Ensure control at blind spots ( curves, hills etc ). I could have met those morons on my Ducati.
4. Have fun but never test the limits of your skills on public roads ( not the same as limits of the car ).
5. No racing on public roads.

You can enjoy your vehicles to the full potential while keeping these rules. I have for almost 30 years.
 
#44 ·
Nothing will get you as a blind, decreasing radius corner. Everything else was just extra toppings on already made pizza:

- carrying WAY too much speed on turn-in,
- inexperience (not knowing the road),
- disabled nannies,
- following what "the other guy" is doing regardless of the fact/early warning that he had when crossing the middle line while the other car managed to stay in his lane,
- unprotected-by-guard-rail cliff,
- probably lack of driving skills (I'm hardly Lewis Hamilton so I can't judge definitively on that)

I bet he would have rather found himself under the steer instead :bigpimp: CA, you still have those images?
 
#45 · (Edited)
I bet he would have rather found himself under the steer instead :bigpimp: CA, you still have those images?
Understeer and Oversteer explained.


Under Steer


Over Steer

CA
 
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