BimmerFest BMW Forum banner

Motortrend Comparison test... Again

21K views 88 replies 31 participants last post by  Kayani_1 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Motortrend Comparison - BMW 335xi Wins

Motor Trend has done an extensive comparison of the midsize sedan premium segment and has put the BMW 335i xDrive up against the Audi S4, Cadillac ATS4 3.6, Lexus IS 350 AWD and Volvo S60 T6. Unlike the last time when the ATS was favored, this time the BMW comes out on top.

Motortrend Comparison Review

5th Place: Volvo S60
While safe and competent, the Volvo failed to get anyone's pulse racing. The competition remains extremely strong and a refresh is coming soon.

4th Place: Cadillac ATS
Without question, the best driving car here, but last or near last in every other category. Cadillac has a great starting point, but it needs to finish the job.

3rd Place: Lexus IS 350
A solid value and a welcome refresh. We would have loved to have see an F-Sport with AWD, and though we asked for it, Lexus didn't have one available. Also, the front of this car is too homely for it to place any higher.

2nd Place: Audi S4
Muscular, brutish, and confidence-inspiring, the S4 is let down by its age and a slightly underwhelming driving experience. Still, what an impressive athlete.

1st Place: BMW 335i xdrive
Featuring the best combination of everything, the latest 3 Series just doesn't have any glaring flaws. It's still the master of the segment it created.

Read the Full Comparison Here:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1309_2013_2014_luxury_sport_sedans/
 

Attachments

See less See more
2
#3 ·
But this time BMW won!

Its amazing how much the Motor Trend testers learned in such a short time.

CA
 
#4 ·
It won in where it matters least and lost where it matters most. Sure it is a the best overall car out of the bunch but lacks in the "sport" department.

"Oddly, the BMW features the laziest handling here. As you're probably aware, BMW has been drifting away from its Ultimate Driving Machine image for several years now, moving more toward a techno/luxury future anchored by ferocious straight-line speed. Said Lago."

The chassis in the ATS is untouchable and with the V6 TT in the works for the V as well as the 8 speed transmission on the way, it is game over. I also have no doubt the laggy CUE issues will eventually be worked out.
 
#8 ·
I had the over / under in my head at 4 posts before either "legends never die" or "Saintor" posted something on this thread. In reference to your last post.... if your favorite restaurant stopped service beef, there is nothing stopping you from buying it somewhere else. Standing out front with signs and pitchforks probably wont make them serve beef again if they had decided to go in another direction. Neither will internet forums. Pretty much the ONLY thing that will make them realize the direction is wrong (if it is indeed wrong) is to take your money somewhere else. If enough people do that, a company will change. Absent that, sales of product normally = customer acceptance.
 
#19 ·
Another interesting review. Although I still don't understand how they came up with the ranking, but a win is a win.

It's a shame that BMW is no longer the undisputed champ in handling and driver involvement though. While we can claim that the 1er is the 3er, we are comparing cars in the same segment, and BMW's "Ultimate Driving Machine" slogan has become just a marketing tool.
 
#22 ·
at least people are finally giving up on making excuses for CUE.

i sat in an ATS 3.6 before i got my BMW (i'm 99% sure i would never have bought it to begin with, but had to check it out .... dealer experience was god awful btw).

and CUE is a horrible horrible system. it is so awful if i had an ATS i'd just want a big ass hole in my center console for a double din after market anything unit because all of them would be better than CUE
 
#23 ·
A few observations...

CUE sucks, but so did iDrive when it came out.

Every review I've read about the F30, including the Automobile All Stars issue says if you want a 3 series, you have to get the Sport or M Sport Line, otherwise you are just getting a soft, luxury (dare I say Buick-like) ride. And to make it better, get the DHP on top of that.

BMW isn't the only brand pissing off enthusiasts. I think every brand does that. Enthusiasts are notoriously hard to please, and generally despise change. VW is moving away from sporty hot-hatches and quirky German cars to more mainstream volume sellers. Dare I say bland cars. Ford and Chevy update the Mustang and Corvette and old-schoolers balk. What's going to happen when Ford bolts an independent suspension on the back of the Mustang!? And so on with other brands;l Toyota, Honda, Audi, etc.

BMW wants volume. They are getting it by catering to the masses, which is exactly the kind of cars we enthusiasts DON'T want. The masses spend a lot more money and buy a lot more cars than we do. We lose.
 
#24 ·
Enthusiast line of reasoning:

- If you change your engine/suspension/transmission style, you are throwing away the brand
- if you don't keep acceleration,power, and handling numbers along with the competition, you are losing the brand
- If you add lots of features that add weight, you are losing your sporting touch
- If you lack alot of features compared to the competition, you are asking me to go check out the competition
- No enthusiast sees any conflict with the above lines

Luckily, enthusiasts are not good business people and thus BMW has done well for itself.

From my perspective BMW is moving to a business model that serves the masses best with alot of options for the enthusiast to add-on.

We'll also see how they do the new m3. In the e90 series, the most sporting models were the e92 335i or 335is and moderately optioned models were running $55-60k. Maybe BMW is simply thinking that they can get those buyers to move into the m3 at ~$60-65k?
 
#25 ·
I think another thing that BMW is doing is getting a little more separation between their sedans and their coupes. They mention specifically in their release on the new 4 series that it has a more rigid frame and better handling. Maybe they are trying to push some people from sedans up a few thousand dollars to the coupes.
 
#26 ·
That is definitely in line with their movement to eradicating the MT on the xDrive 428 and 328 and forcing you up to the 435 and 335.

I don't trust the BMW rep though, I'll wait for real world third party reviews on if the 4 series is actually stiffer and raw with handling like the outgoing E92.
 
#27 ·
Anyone else notice that the BMW seems to have been equipped with the Power Pack/BMW tune? I didn't see mention to it in the article but looking at the listed HP and Torque, it appears that this 335 had a bunch of extras on it beyond a brake kit.
 
#30 ·
It may be just more practical for all car manufacturers to design and produce cars that can handle the poor road conditions that continue to deteriorate throughout the world. I've noticed my PA area roads getting worse and worse each year with little light at the end of the tunnnel for much improvement.

Our utilities have been replacing old sewer and water lines throughout my region for the past several years. They tear up the right half of the road and then patch it, leaving an uneven and rough surface. The utilities are supposed to pay 1/3rd toward road resurfacing, but the state and township don't have the budget to come up with the remaining 2/3rds. Now, at least half of our roads have lousy driving surfaces.

The same was true, and even much worse, when my wife and I recently visited Syracuse, NY. I had planned to take my Porsche for a road trip to the area but thanked my lucky stars that I didn't. My wife's 535xi didn't fare well on those crappy roads either, so we ended up leaving her car parked and using my mother-in-laws' Lincoln.

Unfortunately, the way it's going, it's the SUVs and slushy sedans that will be the only ones that can survive the NE roads and many other regions of the US.
 
#33 ·
What amazes me, review after review, is that nobody ever mentions DHP. I've seen reviews of BMW's with and without DHP, and in both cases, the reviewers don't say a word about it, as if they never tried it or even know what it does.

On here everybody and their dog knows that you practically need DHP on an X-drive. Meanwhile these reviewers, who supposedly know a lot more about cars than we do, never mention it. They just say that the X-drive rides soft, and that seems to be the main problem they have with it. Well no ****. Why don't they request a car with DHP and actually use it, and then write about that?

It's kind of silly that BMW requires you to get a specific option for certain models just to have a "BMW-feeling car", but that's just the reality. I'm very surprised that all the car mags don't seem to know this basic info though....or if they do, never say a word about it.
 
#36 · (Edited)
I think out of everything out there the 335xi is still the best thing currently being offered in its class... Crazy fast, handles well, perfect interior, great options. That being said I am constantly dissappointed by the steering and soft bouncy suspension (non DHP here).

BEDEN1 the roads out west are just as bad. My daily drive involves a freeway that literally has speedbumps in the form of bridge to road joints, and some sinkhole kind of dips that drop the car almost 6 inches, all these are unmarked witha speed of 65mph so if you hit these unknowingly your screwed.

If they want to cater to the mainstream fine, but what would be ideal is if they were able to fix the noticeably bad steering with a sport steering option, and fix the noticeably soft/bouncy damping on the suspension with something above and beyond the DHP currently offered. Maybe call this theoretical fixed package for the enthusiest the 'Sport Line' version ;). If I had to do it all over again I think I would go with a base M3 as its only about $150 more a month and solves all problems listed here.
 
#37 ·
I think out of everything out there the 335xi is still the best thing currently being offered in its class... Crazy fast, handles well, perfect interior, great options. That being said I am constantly dissappointed by the steering and soft bouncy suspension (non DHP here).

BEDEN1 the roads out west are just as bad. My daily drive involves a freeway that literally has speedbumps in the form of bridge to road joints, and some sinkhole kind of dips that drop the car almost 6 inches, all these are unmarked witha speed of 65mph so if you hit these unknowingly your screwed.

If they want to cater to the mainstream fine, but what would be ideal is if they were able to fix the noticeably bad steering with a sport steering option, and fix the noticeably soft/bouncy damping on the suspension with something above and beyond the DHP currently offered. Maybe call this theoretical fixed package for the enthusiest the 'Sport Line' version ;). If I had to do it all over again I think I would go with a base M3 as its only about $150 more a month and solves all problems listed here.
I think the S4 takes the cake when it comes to AWD sedans but it does cost more. While it rides on an old platform it still comes up on top even against the newest competitors
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/...rcedes-c350-vs-cadillac-ats-vs-volvo-s60.html
 
#40 ·
Not accurate. It's 18/28 MPG (compared to 20/30 for 335i xDrive). If 2 MPG is going to be a major factor in your purchase decision, you are looking at the wrong class of cars.

To be clear, I am not advocating that the S4 is a better car. In fact the S4 understeers like a pig and the steering feedback isn't much better, but LSD and DCT make it an attractive alternative when cross-shopping.
 
#49 ·
Aww poor s4... I test drove one with all the options but their financing wasn't competitive and it had a few dash squeeks and rattles on the test drive.. also a ton of torque steer. Faster isn't always the winning point..

Enigma most consumers go off the manufacturers fuel tags as a point of comparison. If anything mpg is worse... But I'm sure many forums have other threads dealing with fuel economy. If they are way off someone should have the cars retested like the 335 was.
 
#50 · (Edited)
Here is my opinion after reading this article.

My disappointment with F30 continues. It is the most expensive car in this group with all the optional performance stuff you can nearly pile on. Yet it barely hangs with an older S4 in straight line and despite having $3K M performance brake kit does not match S4 in braking.......ouch that is tough.

I was most looking forward to reading about F30's handling and steering feel/feed back. In those regards this is what the article had to say.

"Oddly, the BMW features the laziest handling here. As you're probably aware, BMW has been drifting away from its Ultimate Driving Machine image for several years now, moving more toward a techno/luxury future anchored by ferocious straight-line speed. Said Lago, "I don't like the steering." What's wrong with it? Like the S4s, it's detached. "Steering actually has some feel. Not a lot, but some," he continued. Adding all that AWD hardware sure didn't help the 335ix out. Kong noted that the BMW "feels ready to oversteer." Its ride was the softest of the group.



I am not so sure if I should laugh or cry after reading this comparison test.:lmao::bawling:

I think it is a sad day in BMW history when a BMW wins comparisons based on Curb appeal rather then driving dynamics. :confused:

This is what happens when BMW design car based on their new Slogan of Efficient Dynamics. Please, return us to the days when slogan was Driving Dynamics.
 
#61 ·
I think it is a sad day in BMW history when a BMW wins comparisons based on Curb appeal rather then driving dynamics. :confused:
BMW doesn't care about you. You are no longer where the money is. BMW is chasing the mass market. If you don't like their direction then you're free to purchase elsewhere. BMW isn't going to miss you. Hate to be so blunt but that's reality.
 
#55 ·
Says who?

The new IS 350 F-sport just recently beat BMW F30 335i M-sport based on better driving dynamics in a recent 5 car comparison. So when is the last time a 3 series in BMW history has ever lost to a Lexus IS.

I think it is getting a bit sad for BMW enthusiast to know how their brand is being diluted day by day in name of good business.

A good business mantra......I say my behind. :thumbdwn:

A good business sense would be to realize what brought them to be such a coveted brand to begin with. It was not by making cars that appealed to masses. To be honest BMW was never for those guys that wanted curb appeal or soft core floaty luxury rides or dash strokers. It was also not for wife's and old folks that complained about steering wheel being on the heavy side because it was hard for them to deal with mall parking lot maneuvers.

Because you know what you could buy a lot of other cars that had greater looks and curb appeal. There were also cars out there that were more ideal for dash strokers not to mention car that were far more luxurious feeling with soft floaty rides to satisfy those with back issues from old age or injuries.

The reason BMW became popular was because it was made for those that wanted a driving dynamics of Porsche like sports cars with seating for 4-5 and greater practicality. Folks that wanted to drive a car that was as close to a sports car without sacrificing the practicality of carrying a family. A car that would put a smile on your face during daily driving and not only good for tracking. A car that felt connected to driver with excellent driving dynamics.

Enthusiast, are the one that build this brand. Because everyone wanted to find out what was so good about BMW's that these enthusiast would swear by it. It started to gain ground over cars like MB and Audi. The BMW brand established it self with slogans of driving dynamics first. If you wanted the best in sports luxury BMW was the name to reckon with.

It got down to a point that every Tom, Dick, and Harry wanted a BMW. They do not fully understand why but it is because it is the best in its class. However, after owning one they will gripe oh the steering is too heavy my wrist hurts, the dash is not as nice as Audi, the luxury/curb appeal is not as good as MB. The ride is not as soft as Lexus and neither are the gizmos.

So here comes BMW upper management lusting after these new found customers who did not enjoy BMW core values as they they never understood them. They just bought BMW's as some sort of status symbol of owning the best in its class.

In order to attract more of these so called greater sales and new found customers BMW changed its slogan to Efficient dynamics. Now BMW have become more about efficiency and soft core luxury and tech gizmos then driving dynamics.

Thus, the most soft core 3 series in BMW's history called F30 is here. Ditto with F10 and others.

Anyways my 2 cents.....End rant.:soapbox:
 
#74 ·
Says who?

The new IS 350 F-sport just recently beat BMW F30 335i M-sport based on better driving dynamics in a recent 5 car comparison. So when is the last time a 3 series in BMW history has ever lost to a Lexus IS.

I think it is getting a bit sad for BMW enthusiast to know how their brand is being diluted day by day in name of good business.

A good business mantra......I say my behind. :thumbdwn:

A good business sense would be to realize what brought them to be such a coveted brand to begin with. It was not by making cars that appealed to masses. To be honest BMW was never for those guys that wanted curb appeal or soft core floaty luxury rides or dash strokers. It was also not for wife's and old folks that complained about steering wheel being on the heavy side because it was hard for them to deal with mall parking lot maneuvers.

Because you know what you could buy a lot of other cars that had greater looks and curb appeal. There were also cars out there that were more ideal for dash strokers not to mention car that were far more luxurious feeling with soft floaty rides to satisfy those with back issues from old age or injuries.

The reason BMW became popular was because it was made for those that wanted a driving dynamics of Porsche like sports cars with seating for 4-5 and greater practicality. Folks that wanted to drive a car that was as close to a sports car without sacrificing the practicality of carrying a family. A car that would put a smile on your face during daily driving and not only good for tracking. A car that felt connected to driver with excellent driving dynamics.

Enthusiast, are the one that build this brand. Because everyone wanted to find out what was so good about BMW's that these enthusiast would swear by it. It started to gain ground over cars like MB and Audi. The BMW brand established it self with slogans of driving dynamics first. If you wanted the best in sports luxury BMW was the name to reckon with.

It got down to a point that every Tom, Dick, and Harry wanted a BMW. They do not fully understand why but it is because it is the best in its class. However, after owning one they will gripe oh the steering is too heavy my wrist hurts, the dash is not as nice as Audi, the luxury/curb appeal is not as good as MB. The ride is not as soft as Lexus and neither are the gizmos.

So here comes BMW upper management lusting after these new found customers who did not enjoy BMW core values as they they never understood them. They just bought BMW's as some sort of status symbol of owning the best in its class.

In order to attract more of these so called greater sales and new found customers BMW changed its slogan to Efficient dynamics. Now BMW have become more about efficiency and soft core luxury and tech gizmos then driving dynamics.

Thus, the most soft core 3 series in BMW's history called F30 is here. Ditto with F10 and others.

Anyways my 2 cents.....End rant.:soapbox:
This is a good post that I agree with. :thumbup:
 
#59 ·
FWIW, when we recently had an F30 loaner, even my wife came away unimpressed/disappointed. Huge red flag to me as she is by no means an enthusiast, yet could immediately tell the difference in handling from our E90, and in general did not care for it. Part of it may have been it was AT instead of our usual preference of a MT, so there's already an inherent disconnect from the car.


Now, this isnt to say we've written the F30 as a next car or that we think its a bad car, just that there will be other vehicles that we look at as well.
 
#60 · (Edited)
FWIW, when we recently had an F30 loaner, even my wife came away unimpressed/disappointed. Huge red flag to me as she is by no means an enthusiast, yet could immediately tell the difference in handling from our E90, and in general did not care for it. Part of it may have been it was AT instead of our usual preference of a MT, so there's already an inherent disconnect from the car.

Now, this isnt to say we've written the F30 as a next car or that we think its a bad car, just that there will be other vehicles that we look at as well.
I even went so far as to buy one for my wife, just assuming that the 2012 328 will be a real BMW. Well, she has taken over my Golf TDI, I got to drive the Audi Q5 every day now and I am looking for someone to get me out of a BMW lease. The car is just sitting there with no takers to drive it...

Serious disappointment.

.
 
#65 ·
For what it's worth, I'll give you all a non-brand-loyal, first-time BMW owner perspective. I test drove an ATS. It was duly noted that it had slightly better steering feel and driving dynamics (although poorer acceleration) than the 328i. Then I sat in the rear seat and noted how cramped it was. I gawked at the hideously flashy interior. I noted that you have to pay extra for folding rear seats. I fumbled with the weird touch-screen entertainment/navigation system. (and why touch screen? I don't want to lean over and stare at a screen while I'm trying to drive.) Then I decided there was just no question the BMW was the better sports sedan. "The Ultimate Driving Machine"? Hell no. But it never was. If you want the ultimate driving machine you get a Porsche, or maybe a Corvette. :p The ultimate value in a sports sedan? Absolutely.
 
#68 ·
I agree with your assessment of both cars. I never drove the ATS so I cannot comment on how it drove, and I know styling is subjective, but I could never get past that massive gaudy Cadillac symbol on the grill. I'm also not a huge fan of the overall exterior/interior styling and all the chrome that Cadillac's seem to have a lot of.

I also had a Camry with a touchscreen Entune nav/radio system and I was not a fan. It sucked trying to search for specific songs or playlists and inevitably you would hit a selection you didn't mean to make and have to start over. I to like the iDrive wheel system much better. Especially living in Minnesota when it seems like we have gloves on for 6 months out of the year.
 
#69 · (Edited)
S4 vs 335i xDrive ... tough choice.
My friend is a mechanic and worked for Audi and now BMW. He says both cars are about the same in performance and day-to-day handling/ride/performance, etc.
From his point of view, what separates S4 vs 335 is that BMW is much easier to maintain than Audi. Access to certain areas in the engine bay and electronics are easier on the BMW vs Audi. However, he says you can't go wrong with either one...
 
#71 · (Edited)
One of the BMW Tech that I have now known for multiple years works on my car privately. He recently moved to Porsche from BMW. He said that the cars BMW is making based on efficient dynamic philosophy are now using cheaper recyclable materials... etc. The BMW cars are just not as good and are harder to work on and things are lower cost and quality.

He finds the Porsche more easier to work on and thinks they are more fun to drive. However, according to him it is a bit over priced. Anyways, I take what he says with a pinch of salt because your personal reasons can cloud your judgment.
 
#84 ·
I never said to "leave the forum"... I said to "move on" which may have been taken that way, but was ment as "move on from this car, to one you like". I do not need to defend my purchase. I like my car, its why I bought it. Its fine if someone else does not like it. As I keep saying, that is their right.

Someone made a restaurant reference, so I am going to use that as an analogy:

You have a favorite restaurant. You have been going there for years, and love their food. Its a happening spot. You go there at least once a month for 6 years. You get to know the chef, and are willing to put up with the occasional undercooked dish because you really love the place, the chef, and feel connected to them. In year 7 they get a new chef. You go there, and the dishes are just not the same. It feels like they are using slightly worse quality meat. The servers are not quite as good. You no longer have a connection to them as YOUR chef is gone. There are also a couple of other restaurants that upped their game that are in the same neighborhood.

New people LOVE the restaurant, but YOU know how good it was, and how good it now isnt. You try to tell the newbies how much better it was, but they are not listening. They gravitate toward trendy stuff and this is the hot spot right now.

Do you continue to go to "your" restaurant, while telling everyone how much better it used to be, or do you just "move on" and go try out the new restaurant? You may be sad "your" restaurant is not for you anymore, but they no longer make what you like... so why continue to go there? The new restaurant is getting good reviews... maybe its time to try them out, instead of standing outside the old place with signs talking about how horrible it is now.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top