NHTSA Investigating F30 328i Brake Issue

by Bimmerfest.com Member - poudre on September 10, 2013, 11:29 am
NTSB investigating F30 brake problem


Quote:
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says the probe covers the 328i from the 2013 model year.

The government has received four complaints from drivers that it was difficult to brake the cars. Some reported increased stopping distances.

The agency says that in three complaints, dealers found problems with a vacuum pump.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...-brake-problem


Leave a Comment

You must be a registered member to comment on stories. Please take a moment to register for your free account now. If you already have an account, log in using fields below.










74 responses to NHTSA Investigating F30 328i Brake Issue

selee commented:
September 10, 2013, 12:43 pm

My car is two months old and have been to the dealer twice already for brake issues. Fox news just reported on this car having major brake issues,

http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/2013...problem-in-us/
f30jojo commented:
September 10, 2013, 1:48 pm

I had a "oh sh*t" moment today. i posted it on another thread already. but its not isolated to the 328 and my f30 is a 320i. only 2500 miles, this is the first issue ive had with the car. I had to almost stand up on the brake pedal to stop it. it only rolled a few more feet but that's a fear of God moment. I live in germany too, brakes def cannot fail on the 'bahn or anywhere for that matter.
windsor027 commented:
September 10, 2013, 3:19 pm

The 320i and 328i have what is called a floating caliper brakes, while the 335i has the traditional 4 piston calipers. Don't know if this could be part of the issue?
SergioK commented:
September 10, 2013, 3:25 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by windsor027 View Post
The 320i and 328i have what is called a floating caliper brakes, while the 335i has the traditional 4 piston calipers. Don't know if this could be part of the issue?
Floating or sliding calipers have been the norm or 'tradition' on BMWs for decades. ATE is the usual supplier and just now Brembo for fixed calipers but regardless, it seems like a brake pressure (leak/boost) issue more than a design issue.
bmw142 commented:
September 10, 2013, 5:45 pm

Been dealing with this issue since February. ON F30post there are posts from people all with the same stories. I have had the vacuum pump, check valve and camshaft replaced on a brand new car and the problem still exists. The vehicle is back in the shop again.
minn19 commented:
September 10, 2013, 5:53 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by f30jojo View Post
I had a "oh sh*t" moment today. i posted it on another thread already. but its not isolated to the 328 and my f30 is a 320i. only 2500 miles, this is the first issue ive had with the car. I had to almost stand up on the brake pedal to stop it. it only rolled a few more feet but that's a fear of God moment. I live in germany too, brakes def cannot fail on the 'bahn or anywhere for that matter.
Read your other thread, glad your new car isn't your new coffee table. More importantly, that nobody got hurt. Hopefully they get to the bottom of it soon before somebody does get hurt.

Is the e-brake still a mechanical link? I know it would only be good for 15% stopping power, but better than nothing in this situation.
f30jojo commented:
September 10, 2013, 6:26 pm

Yeah could have pulled e brake. the story may sound like Alot but from start to finish it couldn't have been more than 2 or 3 seconds.

Sent from my LT18i using BimmerApp mobile app
minn19 commented:
September 10, 2013, 6:52 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by f30jojo View Post
Yeah could have pulled e brake. the story may sound like Alot but from start to finish it couldn't have been more than 2 or 3 seconds.

Sent from my LT18i using BimmerApp mobile app
Sorry jojo, wasn't saying you did anything wrong. When surprised like that, it takes that long just figure out wtf is going on. Just wondering about the e-brake if it happens to the rest of us.
f30jojo commented:
September 10, 2013, 7:01 pm

Haha, that's why forums get offensive to some. You can't express sarcasm or emotion.

Didn't mean anything bad bro, just meant to say from the time I realized something was actually wrong the car was already stopped.

Sent from my LT18i using BimmerApp mobile app
f30jojo commented:
September 10, 2013, 7:05 pm

My biggest concern is the fact this isn't a much bigger issue on this type of forum. There should be an outcry for a safety recall for a brake issue of this magnitude. If this problem continues for the f30, BMW could have a very big problem real quickly.

Sent from my LT18i using BimmerApp mobile app
Crom! commented:
September 10, 2013, 7:15 pm

god I hope this does not apply to the 2014 f30 models. I just ordered one 2 weeks ago...
bmw142 commented:
September 10, 2013, 7:30 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by f30jojo View Post
My biggest concern is the fact this isn't a much bigger issue on this type of forum. There should be an outcry for a safety recall for a brake issue of this magnitude. If this problem continues for the f30, BMW could have a very big problem real quickly.

Sent from my LT18i using BimmerApp mobile app
This has been posted about on another forum board for a few months over at http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=843186
mr_clueless commented:
September 10, 2013, 8:32 pm

Shouldn't be an issue for me because I plan to drive like an old lady.
minn19 commented:
September 10, 2013, 9:32 pm

I bet the part is made in China. It is a communist plot.
minn19 commented:
September 10, 2013, 9:34 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by f30jojo View Post
Haha, that's why forums get offensive to some. You can't express sarcasm or emotion.

Didn't mean anything bad bro, just meant to say from the time I realized something was actually wrong the car was already stopped.

Sent from my LT18i using BimmerApp mobile app
Nope, didn't think yah did, but you hit the nail on the head. Things get misconstrued and then all he** breaks lose.
Capobranco commented:
September 10, 2013, 10:36 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw142 View Post
This has been posted about on another forum board for a few months over at http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=843186
This gives me pause.....more like high anxiety....I drive my 328xi at least once a week in the mountains of Western Maryland/West Virginia on some very challenging roads. Talk about an accident waiting to happen....what do you suppose to do....drive the car like nothing is amiss until the brakes fail or should I just park it? We need answers from BMW now.
HugH commented:
September 10, 2013, 11:50 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
I bet the part is made in China. It is a communist plot.
No, from what I read, the brakes are made in Korea.

BTW - I got my new 328i and on the first traffic stop, at slow speeds, I almost rear ended
the car in front of me. The car slowed down, but just didn't want to stop until I stomped hard on the pedal.

I had several other times at slow speeds when the car just didn't want to stop. I am used to it by now and allow for extra space. The problem is that it doesn't happen all the time.

The time I went to the dealer, they could not find anything wrong. I was told that BMW brakes are excellent.

We'll see what happens now.

EDIT - Forgot to mention that at first I thought it was a case of unintended acceleration and that's what I reported to the dealer. At parking speeds, I'd step on the brakes and the car would just keep going. Glad the problem seems to be gone after 8 months.
LarryboysUDM commented:
September 11, 2013, 12:45 am

For all our safety, if you have experienced the same or similar brake incident/issue, report it to the NHTSA.
Especially for those with a 328i....slow down and keep distance.
minn19 commented:
September 11, 2013, 12:51 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by HugH View Post
No, from what I read, the brakes are made in Korea.

BTW - I got my new 328i and on the first traffic stop, at slow speeds, I almost rear ended
the car in front of me. The car slowed down, but just didn't want to stop until I stomped hard on the pedal.

I had several other times at slow speeds when the car just didn't want to stop. I am used to it by now and allow for extra space. The problem is that it doesn't happen all the time.

The time I went to the dealer, they could not find anything wrong. I was told that BMW brakes are excellent.

We'll see what happens now.

EDIT - Forgot to mention that at first I thought it was a case of unintended acceleration and that's what I reported to the dealer. At parking speeds, I'd step on the brakes and the car would just keep going. Glad the problem seems to be gone after 8 months.
I was kidding, there is a fester that goes on and on about Chinese parts and how they may kill us. But, this is a truly serious issue, I should not have joked about it. My apologies.
lezam commented:
September 11, 2013, 12:57 am

I've experienced a similar brake issue in my AH3 as well
mr_clueless commented:
September 11, 2013, 1:55 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by lezam View Post
I've experienced a similar brake issue in my AH3 as well
Wonder if a brake issue had anything to do with this:
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/bm...ery-49771.html
bmw142 commented:
September 11, 2013, 8:56 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by HugH View Post
No, from what I read, the brakes are made in Korea.

BTW - I got my new 328i and on the first traffic stop, at slow speeds, I almost rear ended
the car in front of me. The car slowed down, but just didn't want to stop until I stomped hard on the pedal.

I had several other times at slow speeds when the car just didn't want to stop. I am used to it by now and allow for extra space. The problem is that it doesn't happen all the time.

The time I went to the dealer, they could not find anything wrong. I was told that BMW brakes are excellent.

We'll see what happens now.

EDIT - Forgot to mention that at first I thought it was a case of unintended acceleration and that's what I reported to the dealer. At parking speeds, I'd step on the brakes and the car would just keep going. Glad the problem seems to be gone after 8 months.

This is exactly the same thing that happened to my car. BMW has replaced a vacuum pump, check valve and camshaft and once again the car is in the shop and I am told they are replacing the vacuum pump again, but with a new design. I am doubting if this is really the issue or if the problem lies in the computer system of the vehicle, because it is so intermittent . My problem started three months after buying the car at which time the dealer said nothing was wrong, and gave me the car back without doing any work on it. Then a few months later it happened again at which point they changed the vacuum pump and then the next day the issued happened again. They then replaced the Camshaft and check valve and two weeks later, same thing, brakes hard, car rolls and rpms surge to 3000, but does not pull forward, but the rpms surge as if the car was in neutral, just an engine rev.

You need to report this to the NHTSA and get this documented.
poudre commented:
September 11, 2013, 9:46 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryboysudm View Post
for all our safety, if you have experienced the same or similar brake incident/issue, report it to the nhtsa.
Especially for those with a 328i....slow down and keep distance.

+1
greywolf328i commented:
September 11, 2013, 6:49 pm

Are all these cars AT or is it affecting some manuals too. What BMW 142 posted is very interesting that it surged. Anyone else reporting similar?
f30jojo commented:
September 11, 2013, 6:57 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by greywolf328i View Post
Are all these cars AT or is it affecting some manuals too. What BMW 142 posted is very interesting that it surged. Anyone else reporting similar?
Mine didn't surge, it just kept rolling at about 2 mph for a few extra feet till the brakes grabbed. no engine surge.
f30jojo commented:
September 11, 2013, 7:01 pm

Also just for everyone's reference. I'll be going to my German dealer tomorrow to see if they know anything about this issue. Ill post up when I know more.

joe
lezam commented:
September 11, 2013, 7:09 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by f30jojo View Post
Mine didn't surge, it just kept rolling at about 2 mph for a few extra feet till the brakes grabbed. no engine surge.
That's exactly what happened to me too.

I was stopping for a light when the brakes got loose. I kept pressing harder but it didn't stop. Then all of a sudden the brakes grabbed hard. No engine surge, just uncontrollable stopping.
Capobranco commented:
September 11, 2013, 7:16 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by f30jojo View Post
Also just for everyone's reference. I'll be going to my German dealer tomorrow to see if they know anything about this issue. Ill post up when I know more.

joe
Thanks! - looking forward to what, if anything, you learn!
mr_clueless commented:
September 11, 2013, 7:23 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capobranco View Post
Thanks! - looking forward to what, if anything, you learn!
My CA has a 2013 and she wasn't even aware of the issue when I emailed her about it. Until BMW issues an official statement it's unlikely the dealers are going to know anything.

My car is done being built or I may have been tempted to back out. Keeping my fingers crossed I won't have the problem when it shows up in 6 weeks or so.
greywolf328i commented:
September 11, 2013, 9:19 pm

Haven't had any issues with my '14 yet like this, only 400 miles on it though. So are they all 8AT cars or are manuals affected too?
pointandgo commented:
September 11, 2013, 9:20 pm

Link:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs...13030-3517.PDF

More documents will be posted on this site as NHTSA sends inquiries to BMW NA.
mr_clueless commented:
September 11, 2013, 9:22 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by greywolf328i View Post
Haven't had any issues with my '14 yet like this, only 400 miles on it though. So are they all 8AT cars or are manuals affected too?
Great to hear. I hope I don't hear anyone with a 2014 reporting this problem!
pointandgo commented:
September 11, 2013, 10:51 pm

Here's what is going to happen with the NHTSA investigation. Right now we're in the 'PE' stage (preliminary investigation). If NHTSA (based on BMW's feedback of customer information, etc.) feels that more information is required, that there is 'merit' to further inquiry into the potential defect, they will elevate the 'defect' investigation to 'EA' or engineering analysis stage...not good for BMW as this is an indication that a recall may be necessary.

Investigation: If the ODI finds enough evidence of possible defect, it launches a full investigation. This process has two stages: Preliminary Evaluation (PE) and Engineering Analysis (EA). During the PE, the ODI collects more information about the alleged problem from the manufacturer, including a full record of customer feedback. The ODI also allows the manufacturer to submit its own analysis at this point. The investigation is stopped at this point if the manufacturer decides to launch a recall, or if the ODI decides that further investigation is not needed.

If the investigation continues after this point, it enters the EA stage. The ODI does a more detailed and complete analysis of the problem, building on the findings of the PE with additional testing, surveys, and information from parts suppliers. A full report is created and sent to industry experts for review to ensure accuracy in their methods and conclusions. The ODI verbally notifies the manufacturer about its findings, and allows the company to add any additional analysis or comments. The ODI then sends an official Recall Request Letter.

Recall Management: The Recall Management Division oversees all aspects of the recall, from ensuring that the scope of the recall is of appropriate size, and ensuring that manufacturers are fixing the problem quickly and efficiently.
lezam commented:
September 11, 2013, 10:57 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by pointandgo View Post
Here's what is going to happen with the NHTSA investigation. Right now we're in the 'PE' stage (preliminary investigation). If NHTSA (based on BMW's feedback of customer information, etc.) feels that more information is required, that there is 'merit' to further inquiry into the potential defect, they will elevate the 'defect' investigation to 'EA' or engineering analysis stage...not good for BMW as this is an indication that a recall may be necessary.

Investigation: If the ODI finds enough evidence of possible defect, it launches a full investigation. This process has two stages: Preliminary Evaluation (PE) and Engineering Analysis (EA). During the PE, the ODI collects more information about the alleged problem from the manufacturer, including a full record of customer feedback. The ODI also allows the manufacturer to submit its own analysis at this point. The investigation is stopped at this point if the manufacturer decides to launch a recall, or if the ODI decides that further investigation is not needed.

If the investigation continues after this point, it enters the EA stage. The ODI does a more detailed and complete analysis of the problem, building on the findings of the PE with additional testing, surveys, and information from parts suppliers. A full report is created and sent to industry experts for review to ensure accuracy in their methods and conclusions. The ODI verbally notifies the manufacturer about its findings, and allows the company to add any additional analysis or comments. The ODI then sends an official Recall Request Letter.

Recall Management: The Recall Management Division oversees all aspects of the recall, from ensuring that the scope of the recall is of appropriate size, and ensuring that manufacturers are fixing the problem quickly and efficiently.
How long does it usually take for the whole process? What can we do if we're caught in between the recall, but the problem persists?
bmw142 commented:
September 11, 2013, 11:13 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by greywolf328i View Post
Are all these cars AT or is it affecting some manuals too. What BMW 142 posted is very interesting that it surged. Anyone else reporting similar?
My car has AT. The surge I am talking about is not that the car is racing forward, but rather the engine rpm's would rev, but as if the car was suddenly in neutral, yet in fact it is still in gear. The first time it happened the engine revved to redline at a stop and had to shut the vehicle off, as I was afraid it would suddenly rev forward in to traffic, which it did not. The other thing I have noticed since driving a loaner for weeks was that my start/stop function was very harsh when the engine would kick back in after stopping at a light. I am driving a loaner and the start/stop on that car is much tamer.

I have become so use to the feeling of the brake problem that when I first press on the brake and get the slightest feeling of a hard pedal, i know it is not going to fully stop, but coast through for 10-20 ft. The only solution has been to quickly double pump the pedal to get a normal feel back.
pointandgo commented:
September 11, 2013, 11:23 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by lezam View Post
How long does it usually take for the whole process? What can we do if we're caught in between the recall, but the problem persists?
I would expect this to take at least several months or more. NHTSA's initial investigation of BMW's HPFP problem took more than one year as BMW "pushed back" on the issue.
HugH commented:
September 12, 2013, 12:49 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw142 View Post
My car has AT. The surge I am talking about is not that the car is racing forward, but rather the engine rpm's would rev, but as if the car was suddenly in neutral, yet in fact it is still in gear. The first time it happened the engine revved to redline at a stop and had to shut the vehicle off, as I was afraid it would suddenly rev forward in to traffic, which it did not. The other thing I have noticed since driving a loaner for weeks was that my start/stop function was very harsh when the engine would kick back in after stopping at a light. I am driving a loaner and the start/stop on that car is much tamer.

I have become so use to the feeling of the brake problem that when I first press on the brake and get the slightest feeling of a hard pedal, i know it is not going to fully stop, but coast through for 10-20 ft. The only solution has been to quickly double pump the pedal to get a normal feel back.
I had similar problems as you. However, after 8 months of driving and paying close attention to my right foot at braking time, I have not experienced any more problems.

That said, the pedal feeling of my 328i is nowhere close to the excellent feeling of the 2004 E46 I had.
Ct09 commented:
September 12, 2013, 1:08 am

Looks like my 2013 328i has the same problem. It stops but it just doesn't feel right when braking. Also someone else who owned a BMW earlier test drive my car and said the same thing the car is not stopping right away and too many jerks in between not coming to a smooth stop.
Ct09 commented:
September 12, 2013, 1:13 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by HugH View Post
No, from what I read, the brakes are made in Korea.

BTW - I got my new 328i and on the first traffic stop, at slow speeds, I almost rear ended
the car in front of me. The car slowed down, but just didn't want to stop until I stomped hard on the pedal.

I had several other times at slow speeds when the car just didn't want to stop. I am used to it by now and allow for extra space. The problem is that it doesn't happen all the time.

The time I went to the dealer, they could not find anything wrong. I was told that BMW brakes are excellent.

We'll see what happens now.

EDIT - Forgot to mention that at first I thought it was a case of unintended acceleration and that's what I reported to the dealer. At parking speeds, I'd step on the brakes and the car would just keep going. Glad the problem seems to be gone after 8 months.
Same thing happening with my car. Had to keep stomping harder to bring it to a stop and it is confusing and causing too many jerks. I drove older 2008 BMW and the brake and the engine work together but in 2013 328i engine and brake are not working together. When I brake the car accelerates and gives me knee jerk reactions before coming to a stop. Even when I brake it brakes like a Honda civic and not BMW.
Ct09 commented:
September 12, 2013, 1:16 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by f30jojo View Post
Mine didn't surge, it just kept rolling at about 2 mph for a few extra feet till the brakes grabbed. no engine surge.
Oh yes I just bought mine recently. I noticed it surges even when I brake. When I put my feet on the brake pedal I noticed it is accelerating itself.
And even the brakes I have to push real hard to bring it to a stop.
f30jojo commented:
September 12, 2013, 2:57 am

That sounds like a completely different issue, and more dangerous. I'd have BMW come tow
It and return it fixed. Check your floormat by the way. Surging throttle on drive by wire bmws is unheard of. I had a 2001 325xi and the drivers floormat pushed the throttle just over normal idle sometimes.
Sent from my LT18i using BimmerApp mobile app
Goyo commented:
September 12, 2013, 7:07 am

Folks,

What about the start/stop mechanism? If you disable this feature, does the car still misbehave? Just throwing an idea.

Cheers,

G.
Technic commented:
September 12, 2013, 8:05 am

Excellent suggestion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goyo View Post
Folks,

What about the start/stop mechanism? If you disable this feature, does the car still misbehave? Just throwing an idea.

Cheers,

G.
CEJ commented:
September 12, 2013, 8:17 am

The ASS on my '13 was disabled about one week after I bought the car 7 months ago. It has about 18K on it and has never had a surge or braking issue. My other car, a 530i, driven nearly 80K miles, didn't brake as well as this F30.
glennQNYC commented:
September 12, 2013, 8:57 am

Wondering if the $650 M Sport brake option prevents this issue...
Technic commented:
September 12, 2013, 9:14 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Wondering if the $650 M Sport brake option prevents this issue...
This looks to me like a problem way beyond just calipers, something more akin to a software issue with the brake coordination with other systems.
bmw142 commented:
September 12, 2013, 9:37 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
This looks to me like a problem way beyond just calipers, something more akin to a software issue with the brake coordination with other systems.
I tend to agree with you on a computer/software issue but for whatever reason BMW keeps changing out mechanical parts. I have wondered if it could be a problem with the Start/stop feature and the brake regeneration system that is on the vehicle, because in my case it only happens at very slow speed when rolling to a stop. It has never happened when coming to an abrupt stop, but rather as you are rolling or coasting to the stop sign/light and right before the stop start feature would normally kick in.

The other area I question is how the transmission downshifts as speed is reduced, but the rpms increase as the car is slowing. This was explained to me that the car is downshifting and I am seeing the rpm gauge react to the downshifting. I have a 2003 5 series and this does not happen on that vehicle, or on the two vw's that I own.

I would think if a mechanical part is to blame,the problem would happen at a greater frequency while driving due to a malfunction or defect of the part, but it's so intermittent, has happened 4 times in 9 months, that I question the electronic/computer system on the car.
poudre commented:
September 12, 2013, 10:12 am

Hopefully ALL those with brake problems will report them to the NHTSA.

It looks like only 3 or 4 complaints have been filed with them.


File complaints here ----------------------

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/Vehicl...nt/index.xhtml
SergioK commented:
September 12, 2013, 10:52 am

By the way he phrased it I would have to assume the car is an AT. He would have had to have the clutch pedal in for the engine to spool up to 3k rpm.
HugH commented:
September 12, 2013, 11:08 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ct09 View Post
Oh yes I just bought mine recently. I noticed it surges even when I brake. When I put my feet on the brake pedal I noticed it is accelerating itself.
And even the brakes I have to push real hard to bring it to a stop.
Please forgive me if I sound like I'm insulting you. Not my intention at all.

One thing I found is that the two pedals in my car are quite close to each other. My shoes are very wide and there was a possibility I was unknowingly hitting the accelerator with the edge of my shoe every time I was intending to stop. I came to this realization after the dealer sent his top mechanic on a short ride with me. He could not see if the edge of the shoe was hitting the accelerator or not, however, he did notice my shoe was very wide.

I changed the position of my foot when braking and that seems to have helped. Also, since I did away with A.S.S. I have not had any more problems.

My previous car was a 2010 Lexus ES350 and it was recalled for close spacing between the pedals. I never had any problems with that car, but seems like Toyota wanted to eliminate that possibility with their unintended acceleration problems. I was able to brake with my leg at a relaxed angle around town. Something that I am not doing now with the Bimmer.

BTW - The dealership kept my car for a couple of days and no one that drove it could replicate the problems. Their diagnostic computer readout could not find any problems either.

I am just glad that the problems appear to have left me.
Goyo commented:
September 12, 2013, 11:51 am

Folks,

Like I said in my previous post, I think you all with the issue should try to disable the start/stop system, and keep monitoring (off course, keep driving carefully), and check if this makes any change at all. It really sounds that something in the computer is going cuckoo sometimes. Too much electronics nowadays.

What happened to the era of the carburetor?

Cheers,

G.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
This looks to me like a problem way beyond just calipers, something more akin to a software issue with the brake coordination with other systems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw142 View Post
I tend to agree with you on a computer/software issue but for whatever reason BMW keeps changing out mechanical parts. I have wondered if it could be a problem with the Start/stop feature and the brake regeneration system that is on the vehicle, because in my case it only happens at very slow speed when rolling to a stop. It has never happened when coming to an abrupt stop, but rather as you are rolling or coasting to the stop sign/light and right before the stop start feature would normally kick in.

The other area I question is how the transmission downshifts as speed is reduced, but the rpms increase as the car is slowing. This was explained to me that the car is downshifting and I am seeing the rpm gauge react to the downshifting. I have a 2003 5 series and this does not happen on that vehicle, or on the two vw's that I own.

I would think if a mechanical part is to blame,the problem would happen at a greater frequency while driving due to a malfunction or defect of the part, but it's so intermittent, has happened 4 times in 9 months, that I question the electronic/computer system on the car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CEJ View Post
The ASS on my '13 was disabled about one week after I bought the car 7 months ago. It has about 18K on it and has never had a surge or braking issue. My previous car was a 530i that I drove nearly 80K miles and this 328i brakes better.
SergioK commented:
September 12, 2013, 12:06 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by HugH View Post
One thing I found is that the two pedals in my car are quite close to each other.
Interesting.

Yeah, I find that if I am driving a car with only two pedals, I use one foot for each pedal and there's no drama. It gives my left foot something to do so it doesn't get bored.
bmw142 commented:
September 12, 2013, 12:09 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by HugH View Post
Please forgive me if I sound like I'm insulting you. Not my intention at all.

One thing I found is that the two pedals in my car are quite close to each other. My shoes are very wide and there was a possibility I was unknowingly hitting the accelerator with the edge of my shoe every time I was intending to stop. I came to this realization after the dealer sent his top mechanic on a short ride with me. He could not see if the edge of the shoe was hitting the accelerator or not, however, he did notice my shoe was very wide.

I changed the position of my foot when braking and that seems to have helped. Also, since I did away with A.S.S. I have not had any more problems.

My previous car was a 2010 Lexus ES350 and it was recalled for close spacing between the pedals. I never had any problems with that car, but seems like Toyota wanted to eliminate that possibility with their unintended acceleration problems. I was able to brake with my leg at a relaxed angle around town. Something that I am not doing now with the Bimmer.

BTW - The dealership kept my car for a couple of days and no one that drove it could replicate the problems. Their diagnostic computer readout could not find any problems either.

I am just glad that the problems appear to have left me.
I immediately thought the same thing, but looked down at the pedals and my foot was squarely on the brake pedal. I have even gone so far as to deliberately have my foot half on the brake and half on the accelerator and push to the floor as hard as I could to see if I could replicate the problem. The car engine will rev, but there is normal breaking power so the car is not moving forward.

The fact is that the brake pedal becomes rock hard after only maybe an inch or two of pressure and you can not push any further and the vehicle glides another 10-15 feet. Under normal braking you are able to push the pedal as far to the floor as you want. This is not the case when this problem surfaces.

I agree about the stop/start function possibly causing a computer/electronic issue, but BMW has had an engineer looking at my vehicle and has never even brought up that they may be a problem. They have only replaced, the Vacuum pump, check valve and engine camshaft. As others have posted on another forum they also have been told of a problem when some of the cars were built, about the camshaft/vacuum pump assembly and so thats why they have replaced them.
HugH commented:
September 12, 2013, 12:13 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by SergioK View Post
Interesting.

Yeah, I find that if I am driving a car with only two pedals, I use one foot for each pedal and there's no drama. It gives my left foot something to do so it doesn't get bored.
Well, at least you can discount that possibility. In my case, I keep my left foot planted on the foot rest
f30jojo commented:
September 12, 2013, 1:13 pm

I called today, BMW Germany has zero reports of this issue. they said they will send my inof to corporate for resolution.
greywolf328i commented:
September 12, 2013, 1:27 pm

I have not used ASS once yet, and have had no braking issues. So maybe that explains it.
need4speed commented:
September 12, 2013, 1:37 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goyo View Post
Folks,

Like I said in my previous post, I think you all with the issue should try to disable the start/stop system, and keep monitoring (off course, keep driving carefully), and check if this makes any change at all. It really sounds that something in the computer is going cuckoo sometimes. Too much electronics nowadays.

What happened to the era of the carburetor?

Cheers,

G.
Went out with Disco, 12% interest rates and Tatoo from Fantasy Island. N4S
runofkings commented:
September 12, 2013, 2:26 pm

Hi All,

I am a former 2013 328i owner and one of the consumers who complained to the NHTSA when the brakes in my 2-month old car completely failed in traffic on a freeway (luckily there was no accident). I strongly encourage anyone who has had similar brake/vacuum pump issues to report their experience to the NHTSA here. It takes 5 minutes and could help prevent future accidents.
mr_clueless commented:
September 12, 2013, 2:36 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by runofkings View Post
Hi All,

I am a former 2013 328i owner and one of the consumers who complained to the NHTSA when the brakes in my 2-month old car completely failed in traffic on a freeway (luckily there was no accident). I strongly encourage anyone who has had similar brake/vacuum pump issues to report their experience to the NHTSA here. It takes 5 minutes and could help prevent future accidents.
Is that why you got out of the 328i?
jwalz1 commented:
September 12, 2013, 2:43 pm

I only put 1000 miles or so on mine on an ED trip and would have liked the brakes to be better but I am not used to them yet. To me, they did not have enough initial bite and you had to press the pedal more than I would like before you get stronger force but I was chalking it up to not being used to regenerative braking or pads not seated yet.

I am hoping it gets a little better but there is always stronger pads. I did not think anything was mechanically wrong, but it seems a little weak on first push.
samualcc commented:
September 12, 2013, 2:47 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by runofkings View Post
Hi All,

I am a former 2013 328i owner and one of the consumers who complained to the NHTSA when the brakes in my 2-month old car completely failed in traffic on a freeway (luckily there was no accident). I strongly encourage anyone who has had similar brake/vacuum pump issues to report their experience to the NHTSA here. It takes 5 minutes and could help prevent future accidents.
I submitted a report just now. I have experienced the issue at low speeds in which the brakes suddenly lose pressure and I have to stomp on them or the car will move forward several feet. I am pretty used to it by now and the dealer has been useless to diagnose the problem.
lezam commented:
September 12, 2013, 2:49 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by samualcc View Post
I submitted a report just now. I have experienced the issue at low speeds in which the brakes suddenly lose pressure and I have to stomp on them or the car will move forward several feet. I am pretty used to it by now and the dealer has been useless to diagnose the problem.
They didn't even attempt to replace anything??
samualcc commented:
September 12, 2013, 2:54 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by lezam View Post
They didn't even attempt to replace anything??
Nope. I tried to arrange a test drive with a tech or shop foreman but they were not ready when I arrived and arrived and I ran out of time before work. I have to go back again soon for maintenance so I will try again then.
lezam commented:
September 12, 2013, 3:00 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by samualcc View Post
Nope. I tried to arrange a test drive with a tech or shop foreman but they were not ready when I arrived and arrived and I ran out of time before work. I have to go back again soon for maintenance so I will try again then.
I would've refused to drive it home! Make them give you a loaner!

This way you could start counting the clock against lemoning the car if it gets worse
Technic commented:
September 12, 2013, 3:21 pm

These are the kind of faults that dealer technicians are not trained to "see" as a system failure. They see it as a component failure. Thus the replacing of parts without any problem solving analysis.

The NHTSA loking into this will force BMWNA to really look into this the right way. The engineering way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw142 View Post
I tend to agree with you on a computer/software issue but for whatever reason BMW keeps changing out mechanical parts. I have wondered if it could be a problem with the Start/stop feature and the brake regeneration system that is on the vehicle, because in my case it only happens at very slow speed when rolling to a stop. It has never happened when coming to an abrupt stop, but rather as you are rolling or coasting to the stop sign/light and right before the stop start feature would normally kick in.

The other area I question is how the transmission downshifts as speed is reduced, but the rpms increase as the car is slowing. This was explained to me that the car is downshifting and I am seeing the rpm gauge react to the downshifting. I have a 2003 5 series and this does not happen on that vehicle, or on the two vw's that I own.

I would think if a mechanical part is to blame,the problem would happen at a greater frequency while driving due to a malfunction or defect of the part, but it's so intermittent, has happened 4 times in 9 months, that I question the electronic/computer system on the car.
Goyo commented:
September 12, 2013, 3:24 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by need4speed View Post
Went out with Disco, 12% interest rates and Tatoo from Fantasy Island. N4S


Man, Tatoo was Da Man ! I even had a teacher that really looked like him !!

bmw142 commented:
September 12, 2013, 3:24 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
These are the kind of faults that dealer technicians are not trained to "see" as a system failure. They see it as a component failure. Thus the replacing of parts without any problem solving analysis.

The NHTSA loking into this will force BMWNA to really look into this the right way. The engineering way.
I fully agree, but this all came from an Engineer at BMW, so I can only assume they know they have issues, but are not sure on the fix.
Goyo commented:
September 12, 2013, 3:34 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
These are the kind of faults that dealer technicians are not trained to "see" as a system failure. They see it as a component failure. Thus the replacing of parts without any problem solving analysis.

The NHTSA loking into this will force BMWNA to really look into this the right way. The engineering way.

Please, please... do not even get me started on "dealer technicians". I am sure that there must be good ones out there, but for the most part...

One example, and it is written beneath the hood and on the engine oil cap what type of oil to put, they put 5W30 in an E46 M3 !!!!

Seriously, I am not surprised that they just go and change a part, without even trying to think about the problem. This issue seriously needs to be looked at !!!

Cheers !

G.
selee commented:
September 13, 2013, 8:53 am

Update, BMW provided me with another 328i xdrive as a loaner vehicle and guess what same hard brake issue after 2 days of driving!! They had to send a mechanic out with another loaner (BMW X1). Fortunately I was able to replicate the hard brake issue after test driving the car with the mechanic for 30 minutes.
Pat_X5 commented:
September 13, 2013, 9:22 am

QUESTION: Are the brakes and associated parts being used the same for all the F3x series - sedan, coupe, X Drive, wagon, GT ???

What years so far ??
Goyo commented:
September 13, 2013, 9:41 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by selee View Post
Update, BMW provided me with another 328i xdrive as a loaner vehicle and guess what same hard brake issue after 2 days of driving!! They had to send a mechanic out with another loaner (BMW X1). Fortunately I was able to replicate the hard brake issue after test driving the car with the mechanic for 30 minutes.
Do you remember if it the start/stop feature was on or off?
Al Bundy commented:
September 13, 2013, 10:14 am

From someone that would likely be in the F30 market in the near term, just wanted to thank everyone in here for posting such valuable information.
pointandgo commented:
September 13, 2013, 3:46 pm

There's another NHTSA site where manufacturers must make quarterly reports to the agency about several categories of information:
1. Property damage reports by vehicle type and damage category
2. Death and injury reports by product
3. Foreign recalls
4. Field reports of defects/malfunctions friom manufacturer's field rep. reports (not avail. for public viewing).

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ewr/qb/results.cfm

There are now (7) 328i brake complaints lodged with NHTSA's complaint database. As NHTSA has stated in the past, for every consumer that lodges a complaint in their database, they estimate that 40+ do not...and that the manufacturer will have knowledge of many more complaints for a given issue.
tim330i commented:
September 27, 2013, 4:32 pm

BMW is recalling N20 and N26 cars for the brake issue!

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=724599

Tim