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-   -   Engine acceleration when braking (https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=631531)

knoxvolgirl 07-06-2012 02:32 PM

Engine acceleration when braking
 
I just purchased a beautiful 2013 silver x3 35i m sport last weekend. It's gorgeous. It now has about 140 miles on it. Twice when breaking slowly (in a parting lot) to stop, the car/engine has continued to try to accelerate. To the point I was basically standing on the break and it was still creeping forward. The first time, to avoid crashing into the building in front to me, I punched the start/stop button to turn the car off. The second time, the car moved forward to where I had to pull into traffic quite dangerously. The floor mat was not obstructing the gas pedal etc. so that's not an issue. The dealer now has it back to investigate. Any thoughts? Never experienced anything like this before. Thanks.

Me530 07-06-2012 02:51 PM

Can't help you, that seems very strange. BMW is supposed to have Brake Override.

tango131 07-06-2012 03:25 PM

There is something most definitely wrong with your car. What you describe sounds weird because the brakes in most modern cars, and I would guess BMWs as well (I pick mine up 7/18), can bring the car safely to a stop even if you are accelerating. [I never understood also all those supposed unintended acceleration claims involving Toyota Camry]. For example, I have tried this with my Porsche and even with the strong engine of the Porsche and low weight of my car, the brakes were strong enough to bring the car to a stop even if pressing the gas (it has no fuel cut off when pressing brakes as some folks that track their cars left foot trail brake a bit in some corners).

Hopefully the dealer will diagnose and fix this for you.

lbjgh 07-06-2012 03:26 PM

Sounds fishy to me.

captirwin 07-06-2012 03:37 PM

Please tell us what the dealer said and did to resolve the issue.

knoxvolgirl 07-06-2012 03:58 PM

Will let you know/post the outcome. Appreciate any, all feedback. I'm a hospital pharmacist but cars are not my thing knowledge wise. Thanks.

UncleJ 07-07-2012 06:33 AM

Scary stuff!:yikes: Be sure to document everything you get back from the dealer -- keep a running list of who you contacted there, the gist of the conversation, times and dates. If they come back with a "unable to duplicate" finding:tsk: you will need this info in case it happens again. Also, perhaps shifting to "N" should also work vice pushing the button (I hate those S/S buttons!) to keep you from running into something. This is a safety issue so you need it to be fixed right, or the car replaced with one that works! Good luck and let us know the results please.:angel:

lbjgh 07-07-2012 09:06 AM

Reports of unintended acceleration are typically driver error.

The car will not accelerate in neutral. Pressing the gear selector forward (while in drive) will stop any forward motion.

I'd suggest knoxvolgirl practice moving the gear indicator forward into neutral from drive.

Also... just press the brake pedal it will stop the car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PgCL35X2X4

knoxvolgirl 07-07-2012 09:53 AM

I don't find sarcastic responses to be helpful. Evidently you do. Please save any future such comments for other participants who might also. Perhaps you might also save them to share with persons without a doctorate behind their name.

lbjgh 07-07-2012 10:01 AM

Sorry, there is no sarcasim in my response. ...just facts.

If you do have a doctorate you'll know how to research "unintended acceleration".

Bmwmastertech 07-07-2012 10:08 AM

I have. 2012 X3 m sport and never experienced that condition.

slambmw 07-07-2012 10:57 AM

The acceleration is definitely a serious concern. Most common problem would be driver error, but if you are experiencing this problem I would immediately have this reviewed.

Coder 07-09-2012 11:56 AM

Not saying that this is your problem but I have, on occasion, discovered that I was pressing both the brake pedal and the gas pedal when braking, resulting in the symptoms that you describe. I drive our F25 very infrequently (it's my wife's car). Interestingly, we both had the same experience when we drove an X5 at the delivery center. (It was the first time either of us had been in an X5, much less driven one. We didn't know how to start the vechicle or select a gear. Made for some amusing moments.) Apparently the pedals are closer together and/or the seat is angled differently in the bimmer than in the old Fords I normally drive. My wife has totally adjusted since she refuses to drive the old cars! It has happened to me often enough that I now think about it as soon as I get behind the wheel of the X3.

Hope this helps!

raleedy 07-09-2012 11:58 AM

My money's on operator error, possibly enabled by pedal placement.

lukeeesteve 07-09-2012 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coder (Post 6941696)
Not saying that this is your problem but I have, on occasion, discovered that I was pressing both the brake pedal and the gas pedal when braking, resulting in the symptoms that you describe. I drive our F25 very infrequently (it's my wife's car). Interestingly, we both had the same experience when we drove an X5 at the delivery center. (It was the first time either of us had been in an X5, much less driven one. We didn't know how to start the vechicle or select a gear. Made for some amusing moments.) Apparently the pedals are closer together and/or the seat is angled differently in the bimmer than in the old Fords I normally drive. My wife has totally adjusted since she refuses to drive the old cars! It has happened to me often enough that I now think about it as soon as I get behind the wheel of the X3.

Hope this helps!



To eliminate this as a possible cause, try driving with a thin soled shoe so you can feel the pedal.

I'm just glad you had the sense to turn off the engine when your are accelerated on its own.

snowboardjoe 07-09-2012 12:33 PM

My first thought too was pedal placement. I've done this before.

The brake and accelerator are intentionally placed pretty close to allos a driver to press the brake and "blip" the throttle (tap the raise the RPM's to match speed) on downshifts. On an X3, there is no real reason for this anymore since the computer blips the throttle for you on downshifts (my experience on 2013 X3 28i) and no manual available here in the US. I'm sure they keep the pedal placement consistent across their entire fleet of cars where it is practical to do this. Make sure to rule this out when you get a chance by either lifting off brake and trying again and making sure you're not nudging the throttle.

I don't think it's a malfunction of the accelerator pedal as there are redundant checks and balances that analyzes it constantly for any possible errors and immediately goes into "limp home" mode if an issue is detected.

Norm50 07-09-2012 03:14 PM

At the risk of offending knoxvollgirl I think this may be due to foot placement on the pedals. This hasn't happend to me in my 2013 M-Sport X3 but I have had happen in my company vehicle - Chevy Astro van. If I have my foot at an angle on the brake pedal with the right edge of the brake under the ball of my foot, the right side of my foot will be pressing down on the gas pedal at the same time I am attempting to apply the brakes. Sometimes it takes me a couple seconds to figure out why I'm both braking and accelerting, once I shift my foot the problem goes away.

slambmw 07-09-2012 03:36 PM

Consider looking at the floor mats? I used my old car mats that normally slides under the hanging gas pedal. Unfortunately the design is with the gas pedal attached to the floor. Unless you properly cut the aftermarket or purchase BMW X3 designed mats, you would be covering the gas pedal; the improper mat inadvertently sliding causing the sudden acceleration.

bren 07-10-2012 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knoxvolgirl (Post 6938449)
Perhaps you might also save them to share with persons without a doctorate behind their name.

:rofl:

UncleJ 07-10-2012 08:50 PM

Unintended acceleration can happen -- check the fairly recent Toyota Lexus problems, as well as the infamous Audi disasters of years ago.:yikes: While some of this can be put down to driver error, or floormats, or thick soled shoes, others cannot and could laid at the door of the drive by wire systems. In any case it is a serious problem, one that should be reported.:angel:

TN_SUP 07-11-2012 11:50 AM

I've experienced a similar issue with my X3 several times but without "acceleration". I'll come to a complete stop, foot only on the brake, only to have the car unexpectedly leap forward a foot or two requiring me to stomp it. I think it is due to applying just enough pressure to stop the car but not enough to hold it back. Now I brake firmly and it seems to prevent "slippage" from occuring. Still not sure if it is a change in idle or brake pressure that causes the unexpected surge. Definitely scared me at intersections.

lukeeesteve 07-11-2012 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TN_SUP (Post 6945659)
I've experienced a similar issue with my X3 several times but without "acceleration". I'll come to a complete stop, foot only on the brake, only to have the car unexpectedly leap forward a foot or two requiring me to stomp it. I think it is due to applying just enough pressure to stop the car but not enough to hold it back. Now I brake firmly and it seems to prevent "slippage" from occuring. Still not sure if it is a change in idle or brake pressure that causes the unexpected surge. Definitely scared me at intersections.



Time for you to activate auto hold till it gets sorted out. A surge is scary....creeping forward is one thing. Surging is scary.

Want the Thrill 07-11-2012 08:16 PM

This sounds like the idle jumping that there is a TSB out for. The car would rev and the RPM's would jump even when your foot was off the gas and on the brake. My first 2011 X3did this and my second one would do it on start up once or twice a month. There is a software reprogram to fix it. I'll look at the SIB I have and let you know what the number is.

Me530 07-12-2012 03:54 AM

The idle surge is on the 2013's? Very interesting- looking forward to seeing the TSB. You'd think they'd apply the TSB before letting the car leave the factory preparation area.

knoxvolgirl 08-21-2012 06:10 PM

Just wanted to provide an update. The dealer was very responsive/willing to investigate the problem. They kept the car for a week and the 2 or 3 persons drove it to their home and back each day at my request. They said they could not reproduce the problem. I drove with 3 of them in the car so that they could see if I was doing anything that might cause the sudden acceleration. Again, no problems. I have to believe something, I don't know what, was adjusted on the braking because it now breaks much easier. To date I have had no further instances of sudden acceleration/jump in rpms. I have not changed the way I drive. I remain hopeful that the issue will not arise again.

At the risk of sounding stupid, what is a TSB. (transportaion safety bullitin?) Any further info on the one issued for this problem with the x3?

Thanks to all for your feedback/info:)

gfeiner 08-21-2012 07:00 PM

TSB= technical service bulletin

Want the Thrill 08-21-2012 08:02 PM

The TSB is 12-04-12. Here is what it reads:

SUBJECT
N55: Idle Fluctuates Briefly After a Cold Engine Start
MODEL
E70, E71 with the N55 engine from 4/2010 (SOP) to 10/2011
F07 with the N55 engine from 3/2010 (SOP) to 12/2011
F10, F12, and F13 with the N55 engine from 3/2010 (SOP) to 12/2011
F25 with the N55 engine from 7/2010 (SOP) to 12/2011
SITUATION
Under certain engine cold starts, the engine idle may fluctuate during the first 10-20 seconds of operation before
becoming stable.
No faults will be stored in this situation, which will usually only occur at specific engine temperatures, making
it difficult to reproduce in the workshop.
CAUSE
Unfavorable DME software calibration
CORRECTION
Program the vehicle using the most current version of ISTA/P.
The corrected DME calibration was introduced as listed below:
E70, E71 N55 E070-11-09-505
F07 N55 F001-11-09-507
F10, F12, F13 N55 F010-11-09-507
F25 N55 F025-11-09-507
Note that ISTA/P will automatically reprogram and code all programmable control modules that do not have the
latest software.

lbjgh 08-21-2012 08:29 PM

Hey Knox, I'm glad the brakes appear to be working better now.... perhaps the pads are seated with the rotors.

A TSB is a technical service bulletin and they can be found here: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/pr.../tsbsearch.cfm

There is nothing on 2013 models but 2012 have some results.

German Steel 12-26-2012 05:04 PM

Surging Forward with Foot on Brake 535xi 2008
 
OK I know a few will bash me about placement of the foot on both the brake and accelerator petal, but it has happened to me three times since I bought my car in Aug 2012.

Each time I was slowing down behind a car approaching a stoplight. This last time the car surged so hard that all the packages on the front seat hit the floor when I hit the brakes hard. The first time it happended I hit the stop button and braked. The 2nd and 3rd time the engine went to idle within a second as the excellent brakes and my quick response stoped forward movement avoiding collisions.

This third time I know for sure my foot was well placed on brake. I am wondering if the ECU is doing something funky with the throttle or if turbo malfunction is ramping up RPMs.

Any suggestions on what to do please for this new owner of a truely awesome car.

noka 12-26-2012 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by German Steel (Post 7272313)
OK I know a few will bash me about placement of the foot on both the brake and accelerator petal, but it has happened to me three times since I bought my car in Aug 2012.

Each time I was slowing down behind a car approaching a stoplight. This last time the car surged so hard that all the packages on the front seat hit the floor when I hit the brakes hard. The first time it happended I hit the stop button and braked. The 2nd and 3rd time the engine went to idle within a second as the excellent brakes and my quick response stoped forward movement avoiding collisions.

This third time I know for sure my foot was well placed on brake. I am wondering if the ECU is doing something funky with the throttle or if turbo malfunction is ramping up RPMs.

Any suggestions on what to do please for this new owner of a truely awesome car.

2008 535xi? Wrong forum? Try dealer service?

X5leaser 05-03-2013 04:50 PM

Brake issue on my X5
 
I have a large number of issues with my X5 but this week experienced the issue of the engine revving and moving forward while my foot was firmly on the brake. I happened to be at the drop off line at my son's school and luckily no one was injured. This is my third X5 and my foot was solely on the brake and it was firmly down. The dealer has no idea why this happened but did tell me they had a car in with a similar incident a few weeks prior and that person had ended up rear ending another car.

Want the Thrill 05-03-2013 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X5leaser (Post 7562029)
I have a large number of issues with my X5 but this week experienced the issue of the engine revving and moving forward while my foot was firmly on the brake. I happened to be at the drop off line at my son's school and luckily no one was injured. This is my third X5 and my foot was solely on the brake and it was firmly down. The dealer has no idea why this happened but did tell me they had a car in with a similar incident a few weeks prior and that person had ended up rear ending another car.

You posted this on the current generation X3 forum. You may want to post this over on the X5 forum here:

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=159

German Steel 05-03-2013 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Want the Thrill (Post 7562048)
You posted this on the current generation X3 forum. You may want to post this over on the X5 forum here:

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=159

I hate to seem simplistic, but I had the same problem when I wore work boots and it never happens when I wear dress shoes or tennis shoes.

Seriously consider that your foot is too big and hitting both the accelerator and brake at the same time.

longhornfan 08-19-2013 01:54 PM

I have a similar issue
 
I am having a similar issue with my 2013 X-3. Twice I have slowed for a stop light, only to have reduced braking power and then a surge of acceleration. The engineer for BMW of North America has inspected the car and they tell me they cannot find anything wrong. I totally understand what knoxvolgirl is saying. I can press as hard as I can on the brake and I can tell that it is just not going to completely stop and then I have a surge. I hit a car stopped at a red light one day because of this and the other time I sailed into an intersection...luckily noone was coming and I was able to turn into the street and stop.

2011 BMW X6 08-28-2013 07:30 AM

I have an 2011 X6 and I am a healthy 39 year old male and I am a licensed single engine pilot with over a 1000 hours. I use only my right leg to drive alternating like we all were trained to do. I say all this to prevent or avoid assumptions of driver error. When coming to a stop with my foot on the brake right at the very end when the car just comes to a stop my 2011 X6 will all of a sudden jerk forward trying to accelerate. The problem is intermittent but every time it happens my heart skips a beat. The motor revs and then idols and then revs and idols. Once the car is completely stopped and the auto-brake is set, the rev comes and I have to mash on the brake to prevent the car from hitting the car in front of me. After reading other posts of similar problems I now can at least convince the BMW dealer that there is indeed an issue. My wife has had the same experience with the car and will not drive it anymore. We have owned the Lexus LS 460, Porsche cayenne, Audi Q7 and the X5; never had this problem. I hope BMW decides to take this seriously before someone hits a pedestrian in a cross walk which almost happened with me.

lbjgh 08-28-2013 07:47 AM

It would be good to capture such an event on a GoPro camera or cell phone for video evidence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011 BMW X6 (Post 7801975)
I have an 2011 X6 and I am a healthy 39 year old male and I am a licensed single engine pilot with over a 1000 hours. I use only my right leg to drive alternating like we all were trained to do. I say all this to prevent or avoid assumptions of driver error. When coming to a stop with my foot on the brake right at the very end when the car just comes to a stop my 2011 X6 will all of a sudden jerk forward trying to accelerate. The problem is intermittent but every time it happens my heart skips a beat. The motor revs and then idols and then revs and idols. Once the car is completely stopped and the auto-brake is set, the rev comes and I have to mash on the brake to prevent the car from hitting the car in front of me. After reading other posts of similar problems I now can at least convince the BMW dealer that there is indeed an issue. My wife has had the same experience with the car and will not drive it anymore. We have owned the Lexus LS 460, Porsche cayenne, Audi Q7 and the X5; never had this problem. I hope BMW decides to take this seriously before someone hits a pedestrian in a cross walk which almost happened with me.


longhornfan 08-28-2013 03:57 PM

Thanks 2011 BMW X6 for your reply. You are describing exactly my experience. I too use one foot for braking and accelerating and I have been very vigilant lately to watch my foot placement. I have found that there is no physical way that my foot can press on the accelerator and brake at the same time. And for all of those who suggest that is the issue, you are talking out of both sides of your mouth when you also post that that the BMW brake system can always override the accelerator. If that is the case, does not make sense that this is driver error. I am in the process of trading my car.

Want the Thrill 08-28-2013 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longhornfan (Post 7803040)
Thanks 2011 BMW X6 for your reply. You are describing exactly my experience. I too use one foot for braking and accelerating and I have been very vigilant lately to watch my foot placement. I have found that there is no physical way that my foot can press on the accelerator and brake at the same time. And for all of those who suggest that is the issue, you are talking out of both sides of your mouth when you also post that that the BMW brake system can always override the accelerator. If that is the case, does not make sense that this is driver error. I am in the process of trading my car.

What vehicle did you decide to trade it in on?

The X Men 08-29-2013 05:45 AM

If the engine surge after you step on the brake pedal harder, it usually means that you are stepping on both pedals at the same time. Thats not to say there is not a isolated problem with the car. This day and age, there is way too many computers and sensors controlling the throttle. BMW have had the brake override system in their car for years. As we all learn for the Toyota sudden accelaration fiasco, the best thing to do in this situation is to put the car into neutral.

Tangsta 08-29-2013 02:41 PM

I've felt mild surges in my F25, but nothing near as dramatic as others are experiencing, which leads me to believe mine is unrelated.

Mine always happens towards the very end of a stop, probably during the 3-2 or 2-1 downshift. If anyone has driven a manual and been a little too enthusiastic with a heel-toe rev-matched downshift, it feels almost exactly like that kind of a surge... completely absorbed in less than half a second, and I've never felt worried about the ability to come to a full stop. It feels a bit weird and disturbing though. Not sure whether to have it looked at (especially since it's impossible to reproduce on demand).

lbjgh 08-30-2013 02:16 PM

The surge you might notice is the "rev-matching" when manually gearing down... that's normal. When the transmission is in DS mode you'll notice earlier gear down (engine braking) without the surge when coming to a stop.

If the auto box is left in automatic you shouldn't feel anything.

If you engage "auto hold" the brakes are applied as soon as the car comes to a stop and the car will not move unless you physically step on the gas pedal.

kpe42 09-03-2013 07:42 AM

If you are not into the mechanical side of things, you would probably never know what a TSB is.....most people don't, and you don't sound stupid! A TSB is a service bulletin, normally put out by the auto manufacturer to inform the service departments about problems and fixes for issues that arise on their cars. Hence "Technical Service Bulletin".

Tangsta 09-03-2013 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbjgh (Post 7807333)
The surge you might notice is the "rev-matching" when manually gearing down... that's normal. When the transmission is in DS mode you'll notice earlier gear down (engine braking) without the surge when coming to a stop.

If the auto box is left in automatic you shouldn't feel anything.

If you engage "auto hold" the brakes are applied as soon as the car comes to a stop and the car will not move unless you physically step on the gas pedal.

The "surge" I've experienced has only ever happened in D.

When I do manually downshift (which is very rare), I know exactly what to expect ... an increase in RPM and engine braking. In any case, whether in DS, D, or manual, the car should never accelerate or surge forward while decelerating, but it's happened a few times.

Kamdog 09-03-2013 08:18 AM

I am thinking that there might be some transmission related problem. Usually, when you brake to slow down, the transmission downshifts to aid in slowing down. However, if there is a rev matching blip going on automatically, it is possible that that is not functioning correctly during a braking downshift.

consuelaramirez 12-09-2013 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knoxvolgirl (Post 6937190)
I just purchased a beautiful 2013 silver x3 35i m sport last weekend. It's gorgeous. It now has about 140 miles on it. Twice when breaking slowly (in a parting lot) to stop, the car/engine has continued to try to accelerate. To the point I was basically standing on the break and it was still creeping forward. The first time, to avoid crashing into the building in front to me, I punched the start/stop button to turn the car off. The second time, the car moved forward to where I had to pull into traffic quite dangerously. The floor mat was not obstructing the gas pedal etc. so that's not an issue. The dealer now has it back to investigate. Any thoughts? Never experienced anything like this before. Thanks.

ok this just happened to me and my car went through the garage and back of house. no it is not a human error it is the car!

consuelaramirez 12-09-2013 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbjgh (Post 6938392)
Reports of unintended acceleration are typically driver error.

The car will not accelerate in neutral. Pressing the gear selector forward (while in drive) will stop any forward motion.

I'd suggest knoxvolgirl practice moving the gear indicator forward into neutral from drive.

Also... just press the brake pedal it will stop the car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PgCL35X2X4

no it is he car not the driver. this is a case by case basis . educate yourself before you respond with an ignorant uneducated response

consuelaramirez 12-09-2013 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbjgh (Post 7802012)
It would be good to capture such an event on a GoPro camera or cell phone for video evidence.

yes bmw has a problem but not admitting it. this is scary until someone dies then something maybe done to prevent future loss of life

guyver626 12-09-2013 11:42 AM

Engine acceleration when braking
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by consuelaramirez (Post 8004129)
ok this just happened to me and my car went through the garage and back of house. no it is not a human error it is the car!

Sorry to hear this happen to you. I'm guessing everyone is ok? How badly damaged is the house and car? Post up pics! You will get a lot more response if you have pictures to prove this did indeed happen. I'm sure you took pictures for your insurance


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app

Coder 12-09-2013 01:10 PM

knoxvolgirl,

Thanks for the update! Sounds like you have a great dealer/service department! Wonder if the braking changed because the other drivers used them harder. Sometimes hard brake use may effectively clean the discs and wear the pads a bit, resulting in better brake pad-to-disc contact and more responsive brakes. For the same reason, new car brakes are usually not as responsive as cars with a few miles on them. Under normal conditions, it takes a few hundred miles to "bed" them in.

A TSB is a Technical Service Bulletin. I think these are issued by the manufacturers so may be voluntary or as a result of action by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (see www.nthsa.gov). Other countries have similar organizations and similar notification systems. In addition to the NTHSA site, there are other web sites offering some TSB info. They are not always very easy to read but the dealers are very aware of them.

The X Men 12-09-2013 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by consuelaramirez (Post 8004151)
yes bmw has a problem but not admitting it. this is scary until someone dies then something maybe done to prevent future loss of life

Hummm, you have 3 post and all 3 post are here on the X3 forum but you owned a 1 series, one would think you would post your incident on the 1 series forum first.

lbjgh 12-09-2013 03:23 PM

Learn how to drive. Neutral is there for a reason. Troll.
Quote:

Originally Posted by consuelaramirez (Post 8004136)
no it is he car not the driver. this is a case by case basis . educate yourself before you respond with an ignorant uneducated response


Anfänger 12-09-2013 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by consuelaramirez (Post 8004136)
educate yourself before you respond with an ignorant uneducated response

I think this is grossly unfair to lbjgh, whose advice was obviously intended to be constructive. If any of us experience an unexpected acceleration, we would do well to follow lbjgh's recommendations.

German Steel 12-11-2013 02:48 AM

I have sudden acceleration in my 535xi
 
It happens just about every time I wear my work bootsn while driving my car.

Sudden acceleration is a problem with the BMW, regarding pedal placement.

There is no practical margin between the pedals, and with clunky, bulky shoes you easily can step on both pedals without realizing it. You don't drive a formula one car with clunky shoes either.

It took three sudden acceleration occurances while wearing my work boots for me to finally admit that my choice of driving shoes contributes to the problem.

BMWDude49120 12-19-2013 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleJ (Post 6944535)
Unintended acceleration can happen -- check the fairly recent Toyota Lexus problems, as well as the infamous Audi disasters of years ago.:yikes: While some of this can be put down to driver error, or floormats, or thick soled shoes, others cannot and could laid at the door of the drive by wire systems. In any case it is a serious problem, one that should be reported.:angel:

In the cases of both the Audi and Toyota/Lexus "issues", no vehicle faults were ever discovered (although the floor mats were a problem in some of the Toyota/Lexus cases, but the vehicles themselves had no faults). Almost all cases of "unintended acceleration" have eventually been chalked up to operator error after a thorough investigation of the offending vehicles showed no problems.

The X Men 12-19-2013 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleJ (Post 6944535)
Unintended acceleration can happen -- check the fairly recent Toyota Lexus problems, as well as the infamous Audi disasters of years ago.:yikes: While some of this can be put down to driver error, or floormats, or thick soled shoes, others cannot and could laid at the door of the drive by wire systems. In any case it is a serious problem, one that should be reported.:angel:

The Audi 5000 did not have a drive by wire system.

Fjrmann 12-22-2013 06:57 PM

TSB = technical service bulletins

Naishsr 02-28-2014 03:48 AM

Well here are more incidents. I own a 2013 X3 with less than 2000 miles on the odometer. Once in October 2013 and once in February 2014, with the vehile at a stop, the vehicle accelerated and hard braking did not stop immediaetly. The vehicle was at the dealer for a week the first time: they could not duplicate. It is now again at the dealer for 4 weeks. BMW USA is evaluating the vehicle, they claim engineers are looking at data collected. Now for all you experts that like to respond with stupid comments. Not everyone can go through a check list in their mind in seconds when they are accelerated forward from a stop and are more concerned with hitting another vehicle or person and thier eyes are scanning the area in front of them and not looking for buttons to stop! Most serious recalls are due to drivers that have experienced a problem and in some cases lost thier life. And it usually is always after someone has been killed that the NHTSA and the manufacture take it serious. BMWs are designed by humans and humans make errors.

Drewsky 02-28-2014 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naishsr (Post 8177248)
Not everyone can go through a check list in their mind in seconds when they are accelerated forward from a stop and are more concerned with hitting another vehicle or person and thier eyes are scanning the area in front of them and not looking for buttons to stop!

Sorry but you are wrong there. Any person getting behind the wheel of any vehicle should know how to fully control the vehicle. I know, almost as a matter of reflex, that if my car makes like it is a rocket and starts going without my input, that I will shove the gearshift up (throwing it to neutral) and/or mashing the stop/start button. Both of those actions are designed as overrides to anything the car may be up to. Know them. Use them.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Naishsr (Post 8177248)
BMWs are designed by humans and humans make errors.

Yes, but many people forget that the human is still the driver controlling the machine, not the other way around.

Naishsr 02-28-2014 08:02 AM

Make pretend world
 
Not everyone is as smart and quick on their actions like you. Maybe you should be a rocket scientist or brain surgeon!

The reality is that we are human, we drive 3000 lb vehicles and theses vehicles are to be predictable and not take off on their own.

The X Men 02-28-2014 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naishsr (Post 8177713)
Not everyone is as smart and quick on their actions like you. Maybe you should be a rocket scientist or brain surgeon!

The reality is that we are human, we drive 3000 lb vehicles and theses vehicles are to be predictable and not take off on their own.

Did your rpm increase as you step on the brakes harder?

Naishsr 02-28-2014 01:03 PM

Yes. The vehicle just started to move. It was not fast acceleration, just a gradual movement. Brakes pushed hard.

lbjgh 02-28-2014 01:40 PM

hmm, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PgCL35X2X4

Naishsr 02-28-2014 02:08 PM

This is not the situation. The vehicle is at a stop, no motion. Then it starts to move. Pressing the brakes does nothing. After about 10 to 20 feet it then stops. If I was rolling down the highway and I felt the car accelerate I think I would be able to put the vehicle in neutral and even engage the parking brake. But just sitting at a light and stop sign and it starts to move it is unexpected. Besides, all this is not relevant. The car should not accelerate unless I press on the accelerator! I am thinking software. I am assuming that BMWs have all sorts of code written into their operating system, someone at BMW wrote some bad lines of code?

lbjgh 02-28-2014 03:13 PM

My point of posting the video is at 60mph the car has a lot of kinetic energy at rest it has zero.

The brakes are able to overcome the kinetic energy at 60 therefore the brakes can overcome full thottle from rest even if a computer malfunction calls for maximum throttle.

I suggest it's more likely driver error than a brake malfunction.

Naishsr 02-28-2014 03:25 PM

I can understand your opinion. But unless you were the person in the drivers seat, it is only your opinion. It is almost impossible for the driver to hit the accelerator at a dead stop unless your foot slipped off the brake! I think then you would realize you caused the acceleration. I also own a Tacoma and have never had experienced this. This Beamer is history as soon as I get it back. This is my third BMW that I have owned and I am about 100% sure it is the last. But I will wait for the BMW engineers to provide their full analysis. I expect it on Monday or Tuesday.

master2301 03-01-2014 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knoxvolgirl (Post 6937190)
I just purchased a beautiful 2013 silver x3 35i m sport last weekend. It's gorgeous. It now has about 140 miles on it. Twice when breaking slowly (in a parting lot) to stop, the car/engine has continued to try to accelerate. To the point I was basically standing on the break and it was still creeping forward. The first time, to avoid crashing into the building in front to me, I punched the start/stop button to turn the car off. The second time, the car moved forward to where I had to pull into traffic quite dangerously. The floor mat was not obstructing the gas pedal etc. so that's not an issue. The dealer now has it back to investigate. Any thoughts? Never experienced anything like this before. Thanks.

I wonder if it was possible for the recall for 2012-14 BMW X3 Models with 28i engine for loss of brake power to also be associated with the 35i engine as well?T

The Problem:
The oil supply from the intake camshaft to the brake vacuum pump can become restricted. If this happens the brake vacuum pump could fail due to lack of lubrication, resulting in a loss of power brake assist.

The hydraulic brakes will still function to stop the vehicle but without power assist. Without assist the driver will need to apply much greater pedal pressure to stop the vehicle. The distance required to stop the vehicle will increase as most drivers will not be able to apply enough brake pedal pressure.

The X Men 03-01-2014 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naishsr (Post 8178466)
Yes. The vehicle just started to move. It was not fast acceleration, just a gradual movement. Brakes pushed hard.

Naishsr, did you lose power brake assist?

gregwym 03-01-2014 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by master2301 (Post 8179638)
I wonder if it was possible for the recall for 2012-14 BMW X3 Models with 28i engine for loss of brake power to also be associated with the 35i engine as well?T

The Problem:
The oil supply from the intake camshaft to the brake vacuum pump can become restricted. If this happens the brake vacuum pump could fail due to lack of lubrication, resulting in a loss of power brake assist.

The hydraulic brakes will still function to stop the vehicle but without power assist. Without assist the driver will need to apply much greater pedal pressure to stop the vehicle. The distance required to stop the vehicle will increase as most drivers will not be able to apply enough brake pedal pressure.

I would think this is the cause. Just get the car to the dealer and let them check this particular issue.

Paul from S.FL 02-20-2015 08:40 AM

Brake pedal pressure causes engine racing
 
I have found this site very helpful. Yesterday and today I found that when Stepping on the brake the engine accelerated. The harder I stepped on it, the more it accelerated. Nothing seemed to change it. Called the BMW service center and they thought it could be an air leak in the brake system???

Found this website and read some of the comments on the problem I was experiencing. I noted some had indicated that a wider shoe sole might catch both pedals and went back to check it out. Then I saw the problem, my black Z4 floor mat (on a black carpet) which is hard to see in a dim light had slid forward, crumpled up and was jammed under the brake and on top of the gas pedal. It was stiff enough to press the gas when stepping on the pedal. Straightened out the mat - problem solved. Probably saving more than a couple hundred bucks. Wearing a strong gripping running shoe makes it easy to unintentionally dislodge the mat from the Velcro holders.

Called back the BMW service center who couldn't believe it was so simple. BTW, it was a BMW standard Z4 mat, not 3rd party. Don't know if this answers everyone's problem but it answered mine and restored my confidence in the Z4 design.

Tangent 02-20-2015 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul from S.FL (Post 8917425)
I have found this site very helpful. Yesterday and today I found that when Stepping on the brake the engine accelerated. The harder I stepped on it, the more it accelerated. Nothing seemed to change it. Called the BMW service center and they thought it could be an air leak in the brake system???

Found this website and read some of the comments on the problem I was experiencing. I noted some had indicated that a wider shoe sole might catch both pedals and went back to check it out. Then I saw the problem, my black Z4 floor mat (on a black carpet) which is hard to see in a dim light had slid forward, crumpled up and was jammed under the brake and on top of the gas pedal. It was stiff enough to press the gas when stepping on the pedal. Straightened out the mat - problem solved. Probably saving more than a couple hundred bucks. Wearing a strong gripping running shoe makes it easy to unintentionally dislodge the mat from the Velcro holders.

Called back the BMW service center who couldn't believe it was so simple. BTW, it was a BMW standard Z4 mat, not 3rd party. Don't know if this answers everyone's problem but it answered mine and restored my confidence in the Z4 design.

Your situation and having your foot pressing both the brake and gas simultaneously are probably by far the most common reasons that people experience unintended acceleration. You seem to be rather a rarity in that you investigated the issue and found a cause instead of immediately blaming the car and not even considering that you might have done something yourself though. :thumbup: Seriously, it's nice to see someone not stubbornly blaming the car for the problem. Or copping an attitude about legitimate suggestions because their pharmacy training made them too smart to be wrong about cars somehow...

Your experience with the floormats is also why any time you go to a trackday or autocross event you are required to remove them. Entering a corner at really high speed is just about the last place you'll want to have something pressing on the gas when you aren't expecting it.

I've only driven one car where it would be completely impossible to press the gas and brake at the same time accidentally, and that was a NASCAR. It had the clutch and brake far left, and the gas far right to make left foot braking easier. In every other car it's possible to one degree or another because the alternative is to space them uncomfortably apart and have people get off the gas and miss the brake pedal entirely. If the revs rise the harder you press on the gas, 99.9999% both pedals are being pressed!

BobBass 02-20-2015 03:04 PM

Paul,

All due respect, but...are you unaware of the problems Toyota has had with improper or improperly placed floor mats?

I like to save $ as much as the next guy, but you MUST use floor mats specifically designed for a vehicle. You also should not place floormats on top of other floormats.

OEM or OEM accessory floor mats usually have anchors that attach to the carpet (with lugs or Velcro) on the driver's side to ensure they don't shift and they are cut to not interfere with pedal operation.

I always get the "Weathertech Floor LINERS" because they not only do a superior job keeping dirt off the carpet, they are measured for fit by a laser system, anchored, and very thin. NO WAY can they have any "interaction" with the pedals.

I will also opine that there have been a couple of instances where my double-wide size 12 shoe has contacted both the brake and accelerator pedal when I had to do a "quick stab" at the brakes. This is my first BMW and maybe it's just due to pedal placement. It also seems to me that my '15 X3 requires more brake pedal "travel" than any vehicles I've driven. This also means I'm more likely to be closer to touching the accelerator pedal in a "hard stop." I mentioned this in my "J.D. Power" IQ survey.

bimmernut1 02-20-2015 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul from S.FL (Post 8917425)
I have found this site very helpful. Yesterday and today I found that when Stepping on the brake the engine accelerated. The harder I stepped on it, the more it accelerated. Nothing seemed to change it. Called the BMW service center and they thought it could be an air leak in the brake system???

Found this website and read some of the comments on the problem I was experiencing. I noted some had indicated that a wider shoe sole might catch both pedals and went back to check it out. Then I saw the problem, my black Z4 floor mat (on a black carpet) which is hard to see in a dim light had slid forward, crumpled up and was jammed under the brake and on top of the gas pedal. It was stiff enough to press the gas when stepping on the pedal. Straightened out the mat - problem solved. Probably saving more than a couple hundred bucks. Wearing a strong gripping running shoe makes it easy to unintentionally dislodge the mat from the Velcro holders.

Called back the BMW service center who couldn't believe it was so simple. BTW, it was a BMW standard Z4 mat, not 3rd party. Don't know if this answers everyone's problem but it answered mine and restored my confidence in the Z4 design.

Great job of diagnosing your problem. It answers two questions I had, how can two unrelated systems; braking and accelerator be affected at the same time. You've answered it; common mode failure. The same floor mat that limited travel and prevented your brake from engaging fully simultaneously pressed down on the accelerator. I know it's not unusual for brakes to be able to apply four times the equivalent horsepower as an engine. That's why I didn't understand how a car could move forward even with full throttle applied if the brakes are fully engaged.

thanks for the post

zlinda 03-01-2015 04:01 PM

Wow. My 2013 X6 does just that. When you take your foot off the brake after starting the car it will leap/lurch forward. When I put my foot back on the brake the car will continue to pull forward and die or if I'm not afraid of hitting anything just let it go until it smooths out then proceed. It's scary and real. It is not driver error.

maverick2015 03-01-2015 09:03 PM

Happened to me this weekend. Had no idea what was going on or causing it. Engine accelerated from idle towards 3k rpm. Foot on brake while rpm climbing. I immediately checked my foot, floor mat, and my surroundings. It was unsettling at the least. I noticed it because of the engine noise and obviously knowing I was not causing the car to accelerate, foot on the gas, or going down a decline. A real head scratcher. Occurred over about a 5 second period.

zlinda 03-02-2015 07:49 AM

I know I'm not the only one who has experienced this now that I have read through these and other posts. It is unfortunate that the SA said he believes this is how the car was engineered and that it is "normal". It has been reviewed by the Regional BMW representative twice and still nothing found wrong.

If a car lurching/hopping forward is "normal" and I've had it in for every test possible and had multiple parts replaced, reprogrammed, etc. and the problem is still there, am I supposed to accept it and just take it as part of owning the car? If so, Is that a reasonable request? What options do I have?

maverick2015 03-02-2015 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zlinda (Post 8939673)
I know I'm not the only one who has experienced this now that I have read through these and other posts. It is unfortunate that the SA said he believes this is how the car was engineered and that it is "normal". It has been reviewed by the Regional BMW representative twice and still nothing found wrong.

If a car lurching/hopping forward is "normal" and I've had it in for every test possible and had multiple parts replaced, reprogrammed, etc. and the problem is still there, am I supposed to accept it and just take it as part of owning the car? If so, Is that a reasonable request? What options do I have?

Hmm - lurching and hoping forward like a strong idle? Hondas and Acuras will pull a few MPH in idle and do this 24/7. In that respect, it sounds more normal than a problem. Also, consider how you have left the car in Park. Sometimes, if I park it and the car is still in motion - the brakes hold the vehicle before it comes to its final rest. This happens often to me depending on how the car is parked, incline/decline, or if the car was rocking back and forth, once you release the brake the car will abruptly roll into its neutral position.

Have you reset the shift logic?

What happened to me was in drive going 25 mph eyeballing the car rev/accelerate itself watching the tach climb.

zlinda 03-02-2015 08:05 AM

It only happens after the car has been off. When I initially get in and start the car with my foot on the brake, I then will move it from "P" to "D". As I release my foot from the brake it will jump forward. If I put my foot back on the brake to keep it from jumping it will die. If I don't put my foot on the brake (if there is nothing in front of me that I'm going to hit) it will eventually "fall" into place and smooth out.

It has been in service several times with certified BMW mechanics at the dealership. I am not sure if they reset the shift logic although I know it has been reprogrammed many times.

maverick2015 03-02-2015 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zlinda (Post 8939711)
It only happens after the car has been off. When I initially get in and start the car with my foot on the brake, I then will move it from "P" to "D". As I release my foot from the brake it will jump forward. If I put my foot back on the brake to keep it from jumping it will die. If I don't put my foot on the brake (if there is nothing in front of me that I'm going to hit) it will eventually "fall" into place and smooth out.

It has been in service several times with certified BMW mechanics at the dealership. I am not sure if they reset the shift logic although I know it has been reprogrammed many times.

What you are describing does not seem that problematic unless it is so jarring and fast that it might be a safety issue for you. I know I have had this happen to me several times turning the car off in Park, and then experiencing what I described in my last post. I think all cars do this at some point. I know that might not be much help.

The X Men 03-02-2015 12:14 PM

zlinda, all cars do not lurch forward when shifting from park to drive despite of what maverick2015 tells you. Sounds like you have a very serious problem. Try to record a video to show the dealer what is happening. If your X6 is fairly new, I would threaten BMW USA with a lemon law lawyer. What is your engine idle RPM speed when your car lurch forward?

Me530 03-02-2015 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zlinda (Post 8939711)
It only happens after the car has been off. When I initially get in and start the car with my foot on the brake, I then will move it from "P" to "D". As I release my foot from the brake it will jump forward. If I put my foot back on the brake to keep it from jumping it will die. If I don't put my foot on the brake (if there is nothing in front of me that I'm going to hit) it will eventually "fall" into place and smooth out.

It has been in service several times with certified BMW mechanics at the dealership. I am not sure if they reset the shift logic although I know it has been reprogrammed many times.

It sounds to me like there is leftover torque that is surging when you go to D. Maybe your torque converter isn't locking up/releasing properly. That's very weird. Try a different service department.


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