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-   -   Downsides to an xDrive? (https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1323411)

lmacmil 03-25-2019 04:13 PM

Downsides to an xDrive?
 
I'm thinking about a 228i or 230i convertible to replace my 2006 Z4. It would be a 7-8 month car. Since I am in the upper midwest, pretty much all the 2-series are xDrive which I don't need for April to November driving.

Other than weight, mechanical complexity and mileage (not a big concern since it doesn't get that many miles in a season), are there any reasons to steer clear of an xDrive model?

Sportstick 03-25-2019 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmacmil (Post 12950673)
I'm thinking about a 228i or 230i convertible to replace my 2006 Z4. It would be a 7-8 month car. Since I am in the upper midwest, pretty much all the 2-series are xDrive which I don't need for April to November driving.

Other than weight, mechanical complexity and mileage (not a big concern since it doesn't get that many miles in a season), are there any reasons to steer clear of an xDrive model?

Duller steering feel, more tendency to understeer, both from the additional weight specifically over the front.

terryn 03-25-2019 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmacmil (Post 12950673)
I'm thinking about a 228i or 230i convertible to replace my 2006 Z4. It would be a 7-8 month car. Since I am in the upper midwest, pretty much all the 2-series are xDrive which I don't need for April to November driving.

Other than weight, mechanical complexity and mileage (not a big concern since it doesn't get that many miles in a season), are there any reasons to steer clear of an xDrive model?

More weight for sure. Also, its not as sophisticated as the Audi Quattro. The BMW X Drive has also jumped and jerked for me when backing and turning. Just doesn't feel good. On the other hand, I am on my third X Drive. I think it really helps in snow and allows me to run performance snow tires rather than having to go to a traditional snow tire. X Drive will also improve your 0-60 a little if that matters.

Sportstick 03-25-2019 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terryn (Post 12950777)
On the other hand, I am on my third X Drive. I think it really helps in snow and allows me to run performance snow tires rather than having to go to a traditional snow tire. X Drive will also improve your 0-60 a little if that matters.

I believe you are absolutely correct about being able to have less effective winter tires with XDrive and still get the vehicle going, which is convenient. However, when it comes to stopping/turning, perhaps when needed quickly, XDrive adds nothing and the loss of tire capability may result in a very unfortunate outcome. Hope that doesn't happen and good luck!

As to 0-60, I believe any system which splits torque to 4 wheels instead of 2 only is helpful when the amount of powertrain output exceeds the ability of 2 tires to maintain traction while accelerating WOT. This might be more likely with a 235 or 240, such as yours, but seems very unlikely with a 228 or 230, particularly with automatic trans.

Autoputzer 03-25-2019 06:36 PM

You need the rolling diameter (and therefore tread depths) to be very close to identical to prevent pre-mature xDrive transfer case clutch wear. With a staggered wheel and tire set-up (back wheels and tires wider than the front), xDrive is a no-win situation. The back tires will wear faster, increasing the difference in rolling diameters. With a square set-up, you can rotate your tires to keep the tread depths very close (almost identical) on all four tires.

I think the xDrive hardware adds about 200 pounds on smaller BMW's.

Nobody wants xDrive's here in Floriduh. Even the new BMW SUV's on dealer lots are about 75% sDrive's. We got xDrive because we're eventually moving north where it snows and we'll be living on the top of a hill.

lmacmil 03-25-2019 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autoputzer (Post 12950825)
Nobody wants xDrive's here in Floriduh. Even the new BMW SUV's on dealer lots are about 75% sDrive's. We got xDrive because we're eventually moving north where it snows and we'll be living on the top of a hill.

I was in Fla in Jan/Feb and there were lots of RWD 228i convertibles for sale. I may have to go back if/when I decide to pull the trigger.

Autoputzer 03-25-2019 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmacmil (Post 12950861)
I was in Fla in Jan/Feb and there were lots of RWD 228i convertibles for sale. I may have to go back if/when I decide to pull the trigger.

There's a lot of convertibles here. Northerners move here and the first car they buy here is a convertible. They're great in the winter, early spring, and late fall. The rest of the time it's MAX AC with the top up.

Florida cars can have a lot of sunlight damage, though. Dark paint colors eventually burn to a crisp if parked outside in the daytime, and no amount of wax can stop it.

I'm not a convertible guy, but I must have a sunroof.

terryn 03-25-2019 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sportstick (Post 12950797)
I believe you are absolutely correct about being able to have less effective winter tires with XDrive and still get the vehicle going, which is convenient. However, when it comes to stopping/turning, perhaps when needed quickly, XDrive adds nothing and the loss of tire capability may result in a very unfortunate outcome. Hope that doesn't happen and good luck!

As to 0-60, I believe any system which splits torque to 4 wheels instead of 2 only is helpful when the amount of powertrain output exceeds the ability of 2 tires to maintain traction while accelerating WOT. This might be more likely with a 235 or 240, such as yours, but seems very unlikely with a 228 or 230, particularly with automatic trans.

you are correct about about the turning issue. I learned this in my 3-series trying to run Pirelli A/S as snow tires with X Drive. They were downright scary in intersections trying to turn in the snow. It was like being in a toboggan. Bad snow tires results in tracking in a straight line. Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4s are the performance winter tires I use. In up to about 6 inches they do well enough handling and steering in the snow, and the X Drive gives that extra traction assist. Agree that X Drive alone won't be enough, you still need a reasonable winter tire but the X Drive gives you a little more choice of that tire IMO.

imtjm 03-29-2019 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmacmil (Post 12950673)
I'm thinking about a 228i or 230i convertible to replace my 2006 Z4. It would be a 7-8 month car. Since I am in the upper midwest, pretty much all the 2-series are xDrive which I don't need for April to November driving.

Other than weight, mechanical complexity and mileage (not a big concern since it doesn't get that many miles in a season), are there any reasons to steer clear of an xDrive model?

why don't you need xdrive from april-november? by saying something like that, you do not understand the purpose behind xdrive.

imtjm 03-29-2019 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terryn (Post 12950777)
I think it really helps in snow and allows me to run performance snow tires rather than having to go to a traditional snow tire.

huh? this makes no sense.

lmacmil 03-29-2019 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imtjm (Post 12954821)
why don't you need xdrive from april-november? by saying something like that, you do not understand the purpose behind xdrive.

We get little or no snow from April to November. I have been driving 2WD cars year around for 50+ years without a problem and since any convertible will not be driven in the winter, I don't need AWD.

Mark K 04-02-2019 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmacmil (Post 12950673)
... are there any reasons to steer clear of an xDrive model?

Frankly, knowing what I know now and didn't know in 2010 ... I would steer clear of it for a very simple reason - it is soooo much easier to get a limited slip diff on rear axle if that is the only one putting down the power. And with LSD on the rear ... heaven. Trust me on that one. I went from open diff to LSD and that has got to be be a TOP #1 modification to make you giggle at lawful speeds on a public road. Well, that and a good stereo - those twin exhaust pipes with performance exhaust. :)

Good luck with your quest!

imtjm 04-11-2019 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmacmil (Post 12955191)
We get little or no snow from April to November. I have been driving 2WD cars year around for 50+ years without a problem and since any convertible will not be driven in the winter, I don't need AWD.

again, your comment is based on misinformation/lack of information about what xdrive is and isn't and what is for or isn't for. moreover, just because you have been driving 2wd cars for 50+ years is meaningless regarding the purpose of xdrive. The comment is also like saying well I've been driving without a seatbelt, airbags, antilock brakes, etc for 50+ years without a problem.

Autoputzer 04-11-2019 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imtjm (Post 12968723)
again, your comment is based on misinformation/lack of information about what xdrive is and isn't and what is for or isn't for. moreover, just because you have been driving 2wd cars for 50+ years is meaningless regarding the purpose of xdrive. The comment is also like saying well I've been driving without a seatbelt, airbags, antilock brakes, etc for 50+ years without a problem.


That sounds like a lot of car salesman talk to me.

I've gone 45 years in between my (dumb and selectable) 4WD and Frau Putzer's (smart, full-time) AWD. I was fine. Four of my 2WD cars had limited slip or locking differentials though. LSD or LD keeps 2WD... 2WD, instead of 1WD and with the one tire being the one on ice, sand, mud, etc.

I have it on high authority that a Porsche Cayenne can outrun a Carrara 2S in the rain at Barber Motor Sports Park. But, that's only when you're going over 100 MPH in the rain.

Here's a good reason to avoid xDrive if you don't need it...

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...1#post12968731

Sportstick 04-12-2019 07:31 AM

I think there is no question that the same vehicle on the same dedicated winter tires will be more capable on snow/ice with XDrive. Many people judge the value of XDrive by this single attribute and don't consider as much the lack of contribution to stopping/turning. Against the specific benefit, all the downsides should be measured, both in winter, as well as carrying around that mass and cost all year long.

Orca 04-12-2019 08:55 AM

Depends on how long you gonna keep your car. So perhaps consider cost of maintenance/repairs?
That's the reason I chose RWD F10 BMW 5-series. I got mine used and i'm planning to keep it as long as it runs. even though I live in Toronto, Canada and drive quite a bit in a winter (road trips for skiing etc)
As others mentioned already, RWD performs adequately on good winter tires and I personally didn't have any issues with driving my RWD F10 during snowstorms here in Ontario/Quebec.

lmacmil 04-12-2019 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autoputzer (Post 12968917)
Here's a good reason to avoid xDrive if you don't need it...

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...1#post12968731


Yikes! I remember getting axle boots replaced on my Mercury Topaz in the early 90s for about $100 a side.

imtjm 04-12-2019 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autoputzer (Post 12968917)
That sounds like a lot of car salesman talk to me.

I've gone 45 years in between my (dumb and selectable) 4WD and Frau Putzer's (smart, full-time) AWD. I was fine. Four of my 2WD cars had limited slip or locking differentials though. LSD or LD keeps 2WD... 2WD, instead of 1WD and with the one tire being the one on ice, sand, mud, etc.

what salesman talk? if you say xdrive is for winter only, then that is a false statement. xdrive assists in forward momentum of any slippery condition, and there are slippery conditions which do not include snow and ice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autoputzer (Post 12968917)
I have it on high authority that a Porsche Cayenne can outrun a Carrara 2S in the rain at Barber Motor Sports Park. But, that's only when you're going over 100 MPH in the rain.

don't know what this has anytyhing to do with xdrive. or are you trying to make the point that awd outruns rwd? at least that is what is being implied here, although two entirely different vehicles, says nothing about the shoes being worn, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autoputzer (Post 12968917)
Here's a good reason to avoid xDrive if you don't need it...

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...1#post12968731

a reason is because a cv boot may crack? cv boots crack regardless of if you have xdrive or not.

Zooks527 04-12-2019 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sportstick (Post 12969517)
Many people judge the value of XDrive by this single attribute and don't consider as much the lack of contribution to stopping/turning.

xDrive does nothing to effect the stopping distance. However, if you know how to drive in poor conditions, there are noticeable turning benefits to AWD.

southcoastguy 04-12-2019 06:42 PM

Consumers Reports did a test with 4-wheel drive vehicles and turning/stopping.Using winter tires made all the difference, not 4-wheel drive.

Autoputzer 04-12-2019 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imtjm (Post 12969715)
what salesman talk? if you say xdrive is for winter only, then that is a false statement. xdrive assists in forward momentum of any slippery condition, and there are slippery conditions which do not include snow and ice.



don't know what this has anytyhing to do with xdrive. or are you trying to make the point that awd outruns rwd? at least that is what is being implied here, although two entirely different vehicles, says nothing about the shoes being worn, etc.



a reason is because a cv boot may crack? cv boots crack regardless of if you have xdrive or not.

LSD's, LD's, and modern computer-controlled traction control do what most people outside of the snow belt need, without adding $2k to the MSRP, 200 pounds to the curb weight, and potentially thousands of dollars in repair costs.

The outer boots on the front axle on FWD and AWD vehicles are usually the first ones to tear. That's because they not only rotate with the driveshaft, but bend with the turning of the wheels.

Autoputzer 04-12-2019 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmacmil (Post 12969647)
Yikes! I remember getting axle boots replaced on my Mercury Topaz in the early 90s for about $100 a side.

If a car has enough volume and it it's cheap enough to be a popular hooptie, the aftermarket produces replacement driveshafts. My '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R was a rare enough car that the only source for driveshafts was Nissan. I think one back in 1995 was about $400, and that was from a dealership that did a lot of mail-order business with about a 35% discount over the parts counter price.

My plan with Frau Putzer's X3 xDrive 30i is to do a preventative "boot job" at about 85k miles.

marcozandrini 04-13-2019 05:21 AM

My issues are initial extra cost, extra weight and maintenance costs. I live in the metro DC area so we rarely get a bad snow storm. When we do I use the wifeís accord thatís equipped with Vredstein Quatrac 5 tires.

southcoastguy 04-13-2019 05:54 AM

BMW dealers in the Northeast sell a majority of cars with x-drive. Everyone here has this belief that without 4-wheel drive you will be stuck in the winter.

Matthew_H 04-16-2019 11:34 AM

Apart from the points ppl already mentioned, itís less fun to drive than an RWD one! As long as you know how to drive and have good winter tires, AWD is not a necessity for snow driving. It HELPS but not important. Iíve driven a Ford Crown Vic and a Mercedes C class in the snow with no issues.
Here in Canada 95% of BMWs are xDrive. My 2011 335i is xDrive as well and when I took it down to Arizona last year and got it serviced there, the service writer is surprised that itís xDrive as they donít exist in Arizona. Itís available as an option that no one buys.


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