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-   -   Weird Starting issue (https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1330427)

Joe-BMW 05-15-2019 04:15 AM

Weird Starting issue
 
On Monday, about to join a funeral procession line, I turned the key to start the car and the starter just ran with no engine ignition. I have the automatic start feature. I almost crapped my pants given the situation. How embarrassing would that have been.

It almost sounded like the old cars that had a kill switch. I immediately reversed the key, looked at my girlfriend and said holy **** and then tried it again and it fired up as normal.

Is this an indicator of something I should look into or just one of those weird gremlins? Anyone have this experience?

mattmar1 05-15-2019 09:38 AM

how long had the car been turned off when you tried to start it? if it was my car, id check fuel pressure at the rail first, reading after its sat for an hour with out trying to start, then again with the engine running. mine was doing a similar thing a while back, intermittent hard start, let it sit for a while and checked pressure, it had dropped to near 0 after sitting an hour, not every time, took multiple tests to see it do that. replaced the fuel pump, turns out i was running on the original fuel pump at 185k miles. nary an issue since.

Joe-BMW 05-16-2019 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattmar1 (Post 13001379)
how long had the car been turned off when you tried to start it? if it was my car, id check fuel pressure at the rail first, reading after its sat for an hour with out trying to start, then again with the engine running. mine was doing a similar thing a while back, intermittent hard start, let it sit for a while and checked pressure, it had dropped to near 0 after sitting an hour, not every time, took multiple tests to see it do that. replaced the fuel pump, turns out i was running on the original fuel pump at 185k miles. nary an issue since.



Thanks Matt. The car was only sitting for an hour and a half.


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mattmar1 05-16-2019 03:49 PM

still worth reading the fuel pressure as stated in post #2. would i be correct in assuming that youve been driving it since and has no issues? anything in the maint record of the fuel pump or relay having been replaced?

Joe-BMW 05-16-2019 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattmar1 (Post 13002807)
still worth reading the fuel pressure as stated in post #2. would i be correct in assuming that youve been driving it since and has no issues? anything in the maint record of the fuel pump or relay having been replaced?



Correct, it happened on Monday and hasnít happened since. No records of the fuel pump or relay in my file on the car which includes the prior owners records.

Iíll have my shop test the pressure at my next oil change which is soon.


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Joe-BMW 05-17-2019 03:06 PM

Ok, did again leaving work. This time I let the starter spin a bit longer seeing if it would engage and it didnít. Turned the key to off, waited a half second and it started right up.

One time maybe a freak thing, two times in 5 days means thereís an issue developing. Iím guessing by the low volume of input on this thread, this is not one of those things that ďyup, at a 100k miles itís definitely thisĒ so Iíll do some research.

Thanks Matt, Iíll start with your fuel pump and relay suspicions.


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4thBMW 05-17-2019 03:55 PM

Either....
 
Car is saying get me a burial plot OR how long has it been since yo replaced my fuel filter? Reminds me I need a filter R&R.:) I'm pushing 100k mi. since I did it last.

Chedley 05-17-2019 04:09 PM

Yep...probably, a clogged fuel filter that has never been replaced. Check and replace the fuel hoses lines leading to the fuel filter when you replace it.

It is a pretty easy DIY job. Make sure you disconnect the negative cable of the battery when you do it.

Joe-BMW 05-18-2019 12:41 AM

Thanks to both of you. That certainly sounds like an easy cheap option to try first. I'll google where it is and how to do it.

Chedley 05-18-2019 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thBMW (Post 13003677)
Car is saying get me a burial plot OR how long has it been since yo replaced my fuel filter? Reminds me I need a filter R&R.:) I'm pushing 100k mi. since I did it last.

I do it by the BMW book, at 50 K miles intervals. And never had any fuel related problem.
I have replaced it 3 times on my car (180 K miles)

BimmurBrothor 05-18-2019 05:35 AM

I've had the identical starting issue...but I'm discouraged to do any maintenance due to the fact that 80% of the time the thing starts instantly...first turn, at the start of the day turns over like a champ! pretty impressive, now if I could get this to 100%...I've got a replacement kit on the shelf for the fuel pump/filter unit. Now that I think about it...could the performance be dependent on the level of gas in the tank...never put the two together until now.[emoji848]

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Joe-BMW 05-18-2019 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BimmurBrothor (Post 13004039)
I've had the identical starting issue...but I'm discouraged to do any maintenance due to the fact that 80% of the time the thing starts instantly...first turn, at the start of the day turns over like a champ! pretty impressive, now if I could get this to 100%...I've got a replacement kit on the shelf for the fuel pump/filter unit. Now that I think about it...could the performance be dependent on the level of gas in the tank...never put the two together until now.[emoji848]

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Fist time for me was on an over 50% fill. Second time I was on fumes.


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Joe-BMW 05-18-2019 07:01 AM

I think Iíll let my shop do it. I donít even own a jack. Seems easy if itís on a lift.

https://youtu.be/U-bUmKQy_yg


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Asbradley21 05-18-2019 07:54 AM

I did mine without jacking up the car. The hardest part is just removing the underbody panel.

Joe-BMW 05-18-2019 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asbradley21 (Post 13004145)
I did mine without jacking up the car. The hardest part is just removing the underbody panel.



Yeah without jacking it up that could be a bitch. My car sits pretty low.


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mattmar1 05-18-2019 08:06 AM

a jack is pretty much needed to replace the filter with the lower msport....unless youre a tiny person. when working on the car next, look and see if there are any pending codes just for grins.

Joe-BMW 05-18-2019 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattmar1 (Post 13004163)
a jack is pretty much needed to replace the filter with the lower msport....unless youre a tiny person. when working on the car next, look and see if there are any pending codes just for grins.



Ha, I ainít tiny but even 6feet 185 Iím not lying on the ground blind for $100 in labor.


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4thBMW 05-18-2019 11:35 AM

That "continuous cranking" problem has been addressed ver the years
 
on this site and elsewhere as related to the key switch mechanism...have a search on that.

djbecker 05-18-2019 12:54 PM

I would suspect the ignition switch first. That is a known problem with this era of BMW.

The symptoms do not match a clogged filter. And it's never the filter. A clogged filter would first show as a lean condition under high load, not during starting.

It could be the fuel pump. The best diagnostic is checking for pressure at the schrader valve after a non-start event, before attempting to re-start. If you press down on the pin and get a squirt of gas in the eye, the pressure is good. If not, suspect the pump.

540 M-Sport 05-18-2019 03:25 PM

I've had a similar problem. Started at around 100k+ miles, the car would occasionally turn over, but never "catch" or run. Just kept cranking until I manually turned the key to 0 position. Would do it randomly about once every one, two or even three months, before it happened again. I eventually had the ignition switch replaced, thinking this might be the fix. It stopped for about 50k or so miles, then started up again. I replaced the ignition switch again, maybe 75K miles later, and again, seemed to stop the problem for maybe a year or two, then returned. I haven't replaced the ignition switch for a third time. I'm not convinced this is a fix or not. My fuel pump died about 5 years ago, and I had a new one installed at the dealer, it still did it after the replacement.

Joe-BMW 05-19-2019 04:23 AM

Thanks for the insight. Seems this could be tough to diagnose


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mattmar1 05-19-2019 09:46 AM

unfortunately you might end up with a "process of elimination" in diagnosing this.

540 M-Sport 05-19-2019 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW (Post 13004751)
Thanks for the insight. Seems this could be tough to diagnose


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I gave up. At present, it only does it every 4 to 6 months, so I haven't worried about it much. If it bothers you, or is frequent, I would start with the ignition switch. Factory ones are less than $100 online. Stick with oem. Make sure you get the right one, there is a separate one for manual, versus automatic trans.

mattmar1 05-19-2019 02:21 PM

i will say this much...i had an intermittent crank no start on my 528i some time ago. couldnt duplicate it, once it malfunctioned, next crank it started every time. never a code. i did pull the fuel pump relay, saw some brown/black discoloration of the male pins on it, cleaned the socket, new relay, no problem since. could be coincidence, dunno. prior to replacing the relay, i wondered the age of the fuel pump, pulled the back seat, saw that the factory oetiker clamps were on the fuel line, went yikes that i was approaching 180k miles on the original pump. changed it, still saw the original intermittent problem. but i do feel a lot better that i replaced the pump.

4thBMW 05-19-2019 04:50 PM

ROGER *all of that* @153K mi.
 
and orig. fuel pump 100 k 'old' filter and get my head gear for a squirt in the eye ...not.

ordger a new filter and the 'other' hatch lift shock...+ 10 oil filter before tariffs kick in.


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