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-   -   Weird Starting issue (https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1330427)

Burning2nd 05-20-2019 01:15 AM

wait a min wait a min.. did you actually confirm fuel pressure ?

ive never seen a fuel filter be the cause of a no start.. OF a low power or lean condition yes.. but never a no start...

(and im talking like rocks and stuff came out of the filter)

correct me if im wrong i skimmed over the thread.. BUt you have a random crank but no fire condition that happen twice?

at first i thought you where talking that the starter didn't engage the flywheel.. but now it sounds like it cranked and didnt start..

what you need to have happen is it to happen again: and when it does.. you just need figure out if your missing fuel or spark.. with your miles joe.. Id be suspect of fuel specially since you have not done a fuel pump yet..

Im not a big advocator of replace it: but Id just throw a priersburg at it.. so you know that part is off the table that would at least give you piece of mind to look at Ignition2

IGN2 controls everything after you let that key go

Joe-BMW 05-20-2019 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burning2nd (Post 13005631)
wait a min wait a min.. did you actually confirm fuel pressure ?

ive never seen a fuel filter be the cause of a no start.. OF a low power or lean condition yes.. but never a no start...

(and im talking like rocks and stuff came out of the filter)

correct me if im wrong i skimmed over the thread.. BUt you have a random crank but no fire condition that happen twice?

at first i thought you where talking that the starter didn't engage the flywheel.. but now it sounds like it cranked and didnt start..

what you need to have happen is it to happen again: and when it does.. you just need figure out if your missing fuel or spark.. with your miles joe.. Id be suspect of fuel specially since you have not done a fuel pump yet..

Im not a big advocator of replace it: but Id just throw a priersburg at it.. so you know that part is off the table that would at least give you piece of mind to look at Ignition2

IGN2 controls everything after you let that key go



I guess I just describe it as turning over with no ignition if that helps.


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Chedley 05-20-2019 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burning2nd (Post 13005631)
…..
what you need to have happen is it to happen again: and when it does.. you just need figure out if your missing fuel or spark.. with your miles joe.. Id be suspect of fuel specially since you have not done a fuel pump yet..
…...

Exactly right. You need to reproduce the problem, and analyze then to figure out the cause: fuel, or ignition ?

But if you are going to throw money and parts at it, I'd start with the fuel filter -cheapest, easiest to DIY, and recommended anyway as a "general maintenance" item that is often neglected ignored.

I would not replace the fuel pump yet. Until and unless you know it is the cause of the problem.
BTW, I am at 183 K miles, and still with the original fuel pump. So...

Also, have you or could checked your battery and alternator voltages when the problem occurred ? Call me a paranoid, but with the E39, that is always my first suspicion..!!

Joe-BMW 05-20-2019 04:11 AM

Weird Starting issue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chedley (Post 13005657)
Exactly right. You need to reproduce the problem, and analyze then to figure out the cause: fuel, or ignition ?

But if you are going to throw money and parts at it, I'd start with the fuel filter -cheapest, easiest to DIY, and recommended anyway as a "general maintenance" item that is often neglected ignored.

I would not replace the fuel pump yet. Until and unless you know it is the cause of the problem.
BTW, I am at 183 K miles, and still with the original fuel pump. So...

Also, have you or could checked your battery and alternator voltages when the problem occurred ? Call me a paranoid, but with the E39, that is always my first suspicion..!!



Thanks Chedley. I will follow your lead and others. It doesn’t seem like a fuel issue. Seems electrical but what do I know. Battery is 6 months old.


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jeichenb 05-22-2019 04:52 AM

Have experienced this issue with my E39's, E38 and E53 and found it to have multiple causes. I agree with those who have said that this has nothing to do with the fuel filter although those should be changed out on a 60K mile schedule as a maintenance item. My first choice would be to replace the fuel pump. Fuel pumps tend to give you warning signs before they fail. In my case, they would intermittently fail to pressure up. Next, I would make sure the battery is producing the proper voltage. Ensure the battery cables are tight and it's maintaining the proper voltage at rest (12.5vdc) and engine at idle (14.1vdc). If the ignition system does not have the proper voltage you will get engine crank - no start.

Joe-BMW 05-22-2019 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeichenb (Post 13007749)
Have experienced this issue with my E39's, E38 and E53 and found it to have multiple causes. I agree with those who have said that this has nothing to do with the fuel filter although those should be changed out on a 60K mile schedule as a maintenance item. My first choice would be to replace the fuel pump. Fuel pumps tend to give you warning signs before they fail. In my case, they would intermittently fail to pressure up. Next, I would make sure the battery is producing the proper voltage. Ensure the battery cables are tight and it's maintaining the proper voltage at rest (12.5vdc) and engine at idle (14.1vdc). If the ignition system does not have the proper voltage you will get engine crank - no start.



Thank you. I will check both of these out.


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Burning2nd 05-22-2019 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chedley (Post 13005657)
BTW, I am at 183 K miles, and still with the original fuel pump. So...


yeah i made it to about 225,000 miles

Burning2nd 05-22-2019 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW (Post 13005679)
Thanks Chedley. I will follow your lead and others. It doesn't seem like a fuel issue. Seems electrical but what do I know. Battery is 6 months old.


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and the easiest and fastest way to confirm if it is a fuel issue (NO TOOLS REQUIRE)

a can of starting fluid..

car starts, car starts , car starts

car doesnt start...

open hood.. pop off air intake box.. give it a sprits of starting fluid (Which you will have on hand ready to test with)

after you spray it.. it will do something.. (if it doesnt even sputter a little) you spray it again, *JUST for shets and giggles...

@ that point you know whether you have fuel or not

no offense jeichenp But i wouldn't follow this advice.. It is literately the extreme end of the diag spectrum (replacing things with out confirmation is no cool.. even for people with deep pockets ) *trust me ive seen places make multi million dollar mistakes

4thBMW 05-22-2019 05:03 PM

Seems I replaced my fuel filter at 65K mi. some years ago
 
This vehicle is at 153.300 now, new battery testing good so far. I broke down and ordered a new fuel pump and filter today. PIA as my normal vendors either just had a "BMW" $400 pump kit and nice filter selection or nice filter/ price but no pump or nothing I wanted. Got a Bosch pump for $120 and a Mahle filter...total $178 inclusive of shipping. I'll have them and they will get put on at some point. Just don't see myself getting towed into someplace on the road in Valkenvainia for the "we'll have to order one" ordeal.....Getting an invite to go up in the NC mountains from this 90+deg heat, 1300 mi. round trip started me thinking....fuel pump.

540 M-Sport 05-25-2019 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burning2nd (Post 13007833)
yeah i made it to about 225,000 miles

I made it around 240,000 miles when the fuel pump packed it in...it was intermittent and giving me surging on a trip to Portland, OR...I pulled into a BMW dealer and they diagnosed as bad and replaced it. I have had the intermittent starting issue since the new fuel pump.

4thBMW 05-28-2019 03:59 PM

Fuel filter connector hose
 
I found some 5/16" ID SAE J30 R9 Made by CANDA for Prestone (packaged). 18 inches enough to relace all the 8mm fuel filter connector hoses..if need be. $8.99 @ several local auto parts stores. They also have small dia. smooth hose for that vacuum nipple connect...< $1.
I can't believe the prices quoted by all the "BMW" parts suppiers on this stuff. That's OK, they can play the percentage odds that peeps just order that hose for $25 to $40+.

Don't use other low pressure; ethanol un-friendly hose. Check SAE fuel hose ratings...the numer system is non-linear (6,7,8,,9,10,11) as to what the spec's are...think I saw J30-R( was 110psi continuous up to 134 deg C over ...so much time.

4thBMW 08-04-2019 07:10 AM

JUST got around to the fuel filter...leaving the New PUMP
 
on the shelf. You know, I cut those original filter connection lines off but they were more plyable and as sturdy as the replacement connectors @ 154300 mi. today
Taking a breather before i put the plastic cover back on...AND trying to start the car . Tried letting the fuel pump/ pressure fill the filter and lines for 1 minute but it just cranks....not getting fuel yet. doesn't seem right. double checked to see if the middle inlet fuel line was on the center inlet nipple of the filter. IF you get the hi and low pressure crossed there probably be a problem.


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