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jonesin 04-11-2011 07:37 AM

Buying an E36?

Originally Posted by fiveightandten (Post 4451276)
I've been piecing this together little by little over the past few months in my spare time. I figured mind as well post it up. It's a work in progress. But we seem to have a decent amount of noobs around here lately, so hopefully it will help someone.

Should you buy an E36 M3? (99.9% of this applies to ALL E36s)....

Let's first understand what the car is and where it came from. 3 simple points to make about the car...

-The E36 M3 was originally designed in the early 90s (as a bit of an afterthought, though that's beyond the scope of this thread) as a higher performance version of BMW's normal 3-series cars. With a price tag of around $40,000 or higher throughout its production period, the car had a target demographic that consisted of people that likely have/had more disposable income than you or I. They were able to afford taking it to the dealer for service and paying insane amounts of money to maintain the car. To put things into prospective, the previous owner of my car spent more money at the dealership service department than the amount of money I paid for the car when I bought it.

-Another fact about the car is that unlike a lot of automobiles on the road, the recommended service life of its components is not to be taken lightly. The original owner of the car likely drove it for 50-60K miles, or maybe 100K miles at most and unloaded it right around the time major cooling system components, suspension components and other things were at or past their recommended service life. This leaves you and me with a great car that probably happens to require a good amount of attention in the 2nd leg of its life if we intend to drive it without catastrophic failures.

-A third fact about the car (that will lead us to the point i'm trying to make here) is that it's a BMW. Parts are not cheap.

If we add these 3 things together, we can extrapolate one simple thing that will give you a bit of insight into E36 ownership: Despite the fact that these cars have become very cheap to buy, there were never designed to be cheap to own. A general rule to live by is that the lower the purchase price of the car, the more maintenance you have to catch up on after you buy it. The car will be very reliable if the maintenance is kept up to speed and you keep a proactive approach to maintenance by replacing things before they break. This requires one of 2 things: 1) Deep pockets to pay a shop to maintain the car for you. Or 2) A lot of knowledge to do it yourself.


Every noob that stumbles in the forum seems to be under the same delusion. Let go of the hope that you will not have to maintain the car like everyone else, right now. The car will cost money. You will have to replace parts, or they will break. You will have to learn the chassis pretty well, and stick around here to know exactly what failures you'll need to watch out for. If you're the type of buyer that's clicking "sort by cost: low to high" when you run AutoTrader searches...ask yourself if you honestly think the cars you'll be looking into will be a different ownership experience than every other car owned by every other person on the forums here. Plan on doing work on the car and spending money to keep it running. It comes with the territory. The E36 M3 is not a Honda or Toyota. It's a very very rewarding car to own and is a very reliable car *if* maintained properly. But at this point, it's basically a car to be owned by enthusiasts that don't have a problem wrenching on their own car, and don't have a problem owning a car that's a little more needy than average, in exchange for a more involving ownership experience than average.

There's a reason BMW's have such a dedicated following. But, there are prices to be paid for the positive aspects of the car that draw people to it. Nothing is all pros and no cons. You're here reading this to get an understanding of if that list of pros and cons is something you're willing to deal with.

Is the E36 M3 fast?
The E36 M3 imported to North America is stocked with a 240HP inline 6 that has a nice amount of torque. Coming from a Honda Civic, Acura Integra, or the like, the M3 will seem like an absolute monster. It's a reasonably powerful rear wheel drive sports car, and should be treated as such. It has enough power to get a driver into trouble if they're not intimately familiar with the handling dynamics of a rear wheel drive automobile. That being said, the E36 M3 is not a drag racing car. It wasn't built to race WRX's on the highway, or to stoplight race the new Civic Si. The car was designed around balance and overall driving experience. Power isn't *that* abundant, and extra power above stock numbers comes at a premium. GO fast mods generally yield paltry horsepower per dollar returns. If you've owned a fast car in the past, the E36 M3 will likely be fun to you, but it's far from powerful when compared to cars with *real* power.

We're not going to get into magazine racing here, but to put straight line performance into prospective:
-An 8th Gen Civic Si with a few bolt ons will give a stock M3 a run for it's money. A well modded 8th gen Si will pull away from a stock M3. If both cars are lightly modded, they're about even.

-A Stock WRX can't quite keep up with the E36. The M3 will pull away steadily. A Stage II WRX is a different story. Stage II WRX's will run neck and neck with a stock M3, or some protuned ones with extras like TGV deletes turbo inlet, etc will edge out a bit.

-A stock G35 will run about even with an E36, or pull away slightly depending on the year.

-A stock new Mustang GT will slowly and steadily pull away. One with even the slightest bolt on modifications will walk the E36.

Now, if you're more concerned than that, go watch some youtube vids. Enough said.

Do NOT buy an E36 M3 if you're in search of a fast car that will hold its own in a straight line when put up against modern sports cars, if you want a car that will respond well to modifications and will easily and cheaply gain horsepower over stock, or if you want a car whose strong point is straight line acceleration.

DO buy the E36 M3 if you're looking for a car that has wonderful balance, unflappable road manners, impeccable handling, and a chassis that's capable of amazing things with a little suspension know-how and some suspension tuning. Buy the car if you're more concerned with tearing up deserted back roads by yourself than cruising the nearest 4 lane road in search of cars you think you can beat to the next traffic light. Buy the car if tearing around highway off ramps puts a bigger smile on your face than seeing how many tenths you can drop off your 1/4 mile time by installing under drive pulleys and a 3.91 diff. Buy the car if you want something that has a perfect balance of performance, practicality, economy, comfort, and driving experience...wrapped up in an affordable package with timeless design that still has yet to look dated on the road next to modern cars.

So what's all this maintenance that you're talking about?

The following is a list of common items of concern for the E36 chassis. I'm not going to go over recommended service life of components. Just understand that if you buy a car that doesn't have any record of X part being replaced, you should be replacing it, some sooner than later.

Suspension Components:

--Rear shock mounts (RSMs)
The RSMs provide a means of fastening the rear shock shaft to the shock tower of the car. The rubber in these mounts tends to fail over time, which causes freeplay in the mount. Eventually this causes unwanted stress on the shock tower and sooner or later the shaft will pull away from the mount and wind up punching itself into the bottom of the tower when the car goes over elevation changes. The other scenario is that the metal will fatigue from the shock rebounding, and the entire mount will punch through the tower. Either scenario will leave you with completely destroyed shock towers, requiring new ones to be welded in. This is most likely not something you can do in your garage.

Replace the RSM's before they fail. The cost of a new pair of shock mounts runs anywhere from $40-$120 and installation can be done in under an hour with simple hand tools. When choosing mounts, understand that pretty much any aftermarket mounts out there will have a longer service life than the stock E36 mounts. Also understand that the longer service life is a consequence of a more robust design that usually transmits more force to the shock tower, and therefore you should have some sort of reinforcement on the tower to prevent stress cracks from forming...

In addition to replacing the mounts, there's a deficiency in the design that would behoove you to rectify. On the bottom of the tower the mount disperses the force of the shock pushing up into the tower. However, the top of the tower consists of the 2 mounting nuts for the mount. When the shock rebounds, this force is only dispersed over the area of these 2 small nuts. This isn't the best way to preserve the thin, weak sheet metal. There are reinforcement plates available that go on the top of the tower to disperse the force of the shock rebounding. There are no downsides to using these reinforcement plates, they should be on every E36 on the road. They are sold by every major vendor and are pretty cheap, at $25-50.

How common are problems with this? How long do the parts last?
The RSM's are a wear item. OEM RSM's have an approximate service life of 60K miles or so. Service life can be *drastically* reduced by environmental factors, modifications, or other factors. Shock tower failure is what i'd consider a moderate occurrence, high consequence issue.

--Rear Trailing arm bushings (RTABs)
The RTABs couple the front of the RTA to the chassis. The position of the RTA at this mounting point is what's responsible for the toe of the wheel. For this reason, when the RTABs wear out and become deformed, uneven tire wear can result due to the toe being out of whack. The car will chew up rear tires for breakfast if you let these bushings fail. There are 3 main options for replacement; Stock rubber, stock rubber with limiters, and Poly bushings.

Replace your RTAB's at regular intervals

OEM replacements have the most compliant ride, and least amount of NVH. They allow the most suspension travel under cornering load, which is arguably how the car was designed, but it's this travel that winds up wearing the bushing over time, making the rear end feel loose under hard cornering or acceleration. OEM is much more difficult to install than poly. The bushings need to be pressed in to very specific tolerances, and also need to be preloaded. The pre-load is specific to the ride height of the car and therefore if anything other than small ride height changes are made, it needs to be repeated at the new ride height (a concern for those with coil overs).

Limiters aka RTAB shims will limit the amount of travel under cornering load. These are only used with OEM RTABs. They will make the rear end feel a bit more taut at the limits and will extend the life of the RTAB a bit. But they arguably limit the range of travel that the RTAB was designed to permit, slightly. The issue with this is that if you're riding on stock shocks and springs, the tire's contact patch on the road can be theoretically reduced under hard cornering. However, if the reduction is only slight, and they provide a more assuring feel at the limits, are you really loosing anything? Like most mods, you give some to get some. I'm running this setup on my car and i'm happy with it.

Poly RTABs are much easier to install than OEM. They require no preload procedure. Ride quality diminishes a bit, as you can definitely feel the more rigid material when you're driving around. The car takes bumps harder, but provides a more taut feel when cornering and provides more resistance to bushing flex under hard acceleration while cornering. The harder material provides less flex than rubber and therefore is a more extreme version of the situation we described above with respect to reduced suspension travel. Think of it as a few more steps in that direction. Poly will squeak if not lubricated liberally. Poly allows the ride height of the car to be changed without re-preloading the bushing again (requiring the RTAB carrier to be dropped, and thus requiring an alignment).

Replacement RTABs cost $40-80 and installation takes roughly 3-7 hours, depending on a number of factors.

How common are problems with this? How long do the parts last?
The RTAB's are a wear item. OEM RTAB's have an approximate service life of 80-100K miles or so. Service life can vary due to environmental factors, modifications, or other factors. In the past, i'd consider RTAB failure a low occurrence, low consequence issue, as it tends to happen over time and the consequence is usually just uneven tire wear. However, something to note is that recently we've seen more and more failures of the sheet metal that the RTAB carriers bolt into. This is the section of the unibody where there are (3) threaded bungs welded in to hold the RTAB carrier (aka "console") in place. Letting the RTABs on your car get worn to the point where the rubber is torn and the trailing arm is slapping back and forth in the carrier will eventually result in failure of the sheet metal or the welds that hold the bungs in place. The RTAB can rip out of the unibody completely without any warning, and while the vehicle is in motion. I don't think I have to explain how dangerous this is. This is something to keep an eye on as the cars age, especially in areas where cars are prone to underbody rust.

See this thread for a closer look at what this failure looks like:

--Tie rods/Tie rod ends

This isn't so much a problem, as tie rods are a wear item on any car. Though, it's definitely worth mentioning. The tie rods are responsible for moving the front wheels based on input from the steering rack, and ultimately the steering wheel. They have an integrated ball joint designed to allow them to operate as the wheel/hub assembly moves about from elevation changes or other movement. This balljoint (and the boot holding in the grease) has a finite lifespan. When a tie rod end ball joint get worn, the alignment of the wheel (specifically the toe) gets thrown off. This will lead to uneven tire wear, and it may not be something you'd notice until the insides of the tire(s) is/are worn down to the belts.

Replace the tie ends or entire rods. OEM Lemforder replacement tie rod ends (the only way to go, stay away from Meyle and other cheap brands) run roughly $100 for both sides. Installation will take roughly 30 minutes, may require a ball joint puller and a torch to heat up the stock ends to break them free. An alignment will obviously be required after tie rod replacement.

How common are problems with this? How long do the parts last?
Tie rod ends are a wear item. This is a low occurrence, low consequence issue, as worn tie rod ends will just lead to uneven tire wear. Expect the OEM tie rod ends to last for roughly 80-100K miles, though service life can be drastically altered by environmental factors, driving style, or other factors.

--Other components to keep in mind
Front ball joints; they are integrated into the control arms so they must be replaced as a single unit. Worn ball joints can cause sloppy front end feel and possibly clunking sounds from the front end. Rear ball joints; These connect the rear trailing arm to the upper and lower control arms. They tend to wear over time, causing sloppy rear end feel. Shock absorbers; They tend to have a service life of 80k-100K miles and should be replaced accordingly.

Cooling system components:

--Water pump
The water pump is a direct drive component that has a mechanical cooling fan rigidly mounted to it. This means that the condition of the bearings in the pump is a VERY important thing to keep track of. When the pump fails, it causes an unbalance in the fan that will ultimately send shards of plastic flying all over the engine bay, severing the nearby coolant lines, and consequently overheating the car before you know what's happening. It doesn't care how attentive you are to the temperature gauge, there is thermal lag inherent in the gauge. Its all too easy to overheat the motor as a consequence of cooling system component failure.

--Mechanical fan and clutch
The fan should spin freely with a bit of resistance while the motor is cold and off. If it does not spin, or spins without any resistance, the clutch needs to be replaced. The fan itself goes through a lot of thermal cycling and should be checked periodically for any cracked or missing blades. This will start as a slight shaking noticeable from inside the cabin, and will soon destroy the water pump bearings leading to the death of the pump, the fan, and everything around them. Also, worn motor mounts can allow the fan blades to contact the fan shroud, making them more prone to breakage. Inspect the blades and shroud for signs of contact.

-Radiator, expansion tank, and hoses
These components should be checked periodically for cracks, breakage or leaks. The expansion tank has a high failure rate and shouldn't be trusted much beyond 80-100K miles of normal use.

Drivetrain components:


This is a rubber flex disk that couples the drive shaft to the transmission. It has 6 large bolts going through it to connect these 2 parts. This item sees a lot of stress, heat cycling, etc. Fatigue starts as barely visible hairline cracks around the bolt holes. These can quickly spread, tearing the rubber apart which leads to unbalance in the driveshaft and can ultimately lead to driveshaft separation. Periodic visual inspection is a good idea.

--Motor and tranny mounts
Worn mounts should not be taken lightly, as they can make the car prone to mis-shifts (the infamous "money shift", which is not a club you want to be part of), can cause the cooling fan blades to contact the shroud (see the cooling system section above), and can even put undue stress on the power steering lines, which don't have a lot of slack in them.

--Diff mounts and mounting bolts
The rear differential mounts to the rear subframe at 3 mounting points. There are 2 rear mounts, and one front one. Worn bushings at these points can cause excessive freeplay in the diff. But the bigger issue is the fact that there is only *one* mount in the front. This mounting bolt (aka, front diff bolt) is prone to breakage under high torque situations. It can, and has broken in completely stock cars. When doing maintenance, it's a good idea to replace the bolt, which costs under $2 from the stealer and takes 60 seconds to swap out with a new one. Waiting for it to break will result in you having to drop the diff to either drill it out or use some other means of removing the sheared off remains from the rear subframe.

Fluid leaks:

The power steering lines feeding the power steering fluid reservoir are VERY prone to leaking. It's not a matter of *if* they will leak, as much as *when* they will. Many many E36's have leaky PS lines. This should not be taken lightly, as running the PS pump or the PS rack low on fluid will damage them. It's a BMW...they're expensive.

The motor, transmission, and diff should be checked for leaks periodically, like any 10-15 year old car.

How common are fluid leaks?
I'd consider PS fluid leaks a very high occurrence, low risk issue. I'd consider all other fluid leaks low occurrence, low risk issues. Most leaks will take a while to get bad enough to deplete the fluids to the extent that damage will be done. The E36 is no different from any other car in this respect. Though, given the very high occurrence of PS fluid leaks at the reservoir, that's something you should give a quick look every time you're under the car doing an oil change (your view of the PS fluid reservoir is blocked from above by the stock air box).

Other mechanical issues:

--Oil pump nut

The S50 and S52 motors have a chain-driven oil pump that is driven by a single sprocket. This sprocket is secured to the oil pump by a single 19mm reverse-threaded nut. This nut has been known to back off, which causes the oil pump sprocket to fall off the shaft, resulting in the oil pump stopping immediately. You have a brief moment after the oil light illuminates to turn the ignition key and stop the motor before it seizes due to oil starvation. Basically, a single 19mm nut can destroy your motor in a matter of seconds.

Secure the nut with something other than good old fashioned torque. There are 4 main methods by which people secure the nut with more reliable means;

-Safety wire (buy a safety wired nut that can be secured with wire to the sprocket)
-Thread locker (must be high-temp, high-strength automotive grade Locktite or equivalent)
-Welding (put a small tack weld on it. NOTE: people have started fires doing this, be sure the sprocket is free of oil and/or degreaser first!)
-Stake the threads (use a punch or something similar to fold over the threads, so the nut can not back off)

You may use any of these, or any combination of these at your own discretion. There are obvious pros and cons to each method, but any of them (when done right) will alleviate the issue.

How common is this?
I'd consider oil pump nut failure a low occurrence, extremely high risk issue. There is NO correlation between vehicle mileage, driving style, environmental factors, production year, or any other factors with the failure of the nut. It's not a high occurrence issue, but it can happen to any E36, at any time.


Originally Posted by fiveightandten (Post 4451283)

Chassis weak points:

The E36 chassis was the first 3 series chassis that was CAD designed, as opposed to good old fashioned German engineering, and consequently it does have some weak points that made it into production cars.

"Chassis weak points? What do you mean?"

I mean the sheet metal that makes up the car sucks and has been known to fail. Some areas are more prone to failure than others.

"The metal that makes up the car *fails"?!? It's a BMW. I thought they were good cars!"

They are good cars. But this is the point we're trying to make with this entire catalog of information...the car can break, will break, and can be expensive to own if you don't know what you're doing. The car can be expensive to own even if you *do* know what you're doing. You're here to school yourself on the E36 before you buy the car. Emptying out your savings account to buy the E36 on Autotrader that was a great deal won't do you any good if afterwords you find out there are hairline cracks in the RTAB pocket.

"What's an RTAB pocket?"

Exactly...keep reading.

--Rear shock towers
Problem: As we discussed above in the section on rear shock mounts (RSM's), the shock towers are prone to failure. The sheet metal is paper thin. It can and will develop cracks. A cracked tower will have to be torch cut out of the car and replaced completely with a new one. The part is less than $10, but it's the labor that gets you. Most of us are not proficient enough at welding to perform this repair, so you'll be paying a shop to do it for you. Keep an eye on your RSM's, and if you're looking into buying a car it's *strongly* recommended that you inspect the shock towers carefully for cracks before purchasing it.

Solution: Install rear shock tower reinforcement plates on the tops of the shock towers to disperse the force of shock rebound over a larger surface area. These are available from any parts vendor that stocks aftermarket parts and bolt on to the towers with hand tools. Also, the Z3 chassis coupe and roadster had these reinforcement plates from the factory. You can buy those and install them if you wish to get an OEM part from the stealer. Though, they're just metal plates...there is no reason why OEM will be any better than an aftermarket set.

How common are problems with this?
I'd consider shock tower failure a moderate occurrence, high risk issue.

--Rear trailing arm bushing (RTAB) pocket
Problem: The RTAB is mounted in a metal carrier that bolts to the unibody at 3 points, using threaded bungs that are welded to the body of the car. The sheet metal around these bungs (like the sheet metal in the rest of the car) is weak and has been known to develop cracks and even flat out fail. The RTAB carrier (aka RTAB console) separates from the body completely. I don't think I need to explain how dangerous this is. It has been hypothesized that this is either due to hard track use, and/or due to worn RTAB's, which allow excessive movement of the RTA in the console, causing it to slap up against the metal, which sends mechanical shock through the setup and to the welds around the threaded bungs and unibody.

Solution: Some vendors sell RTAB pocket reinforcements. Welding is required to install these. You will have to drop the RTA, clean the unibody so it's free of undercoat, and weld the reinforcements in. Unless you have the means to turn the car upside down, the welding will be done upside down. This is also tight work with tight tolerances. It needs to be left to a professional that has a lot of experience with similar situations. Your cousin Louie across town (who owns a welder he got at a yard sale and will be happy to "weld that b!tch up for a 6 pack of High Life if you put in a good word for him with your sister") does not qualify as a competent professional.

How common are problems with this?
I'd consider RTAB pocket failure a low occurrence, extremely high risk issue.

--Sway bar mounting tabs
Problem: The rear sway bars mount to the rear subframe by bolting into small (and consequently weak) tabs integrated into the subframe. These mounting points can develop cracks and even sheer off the subframe completely, leaving you with a dangling sway bar. This is most common with larger and stiffer after market sways, which put more stress on the tabs than stock sways.

Solution: Swaybar mounting tab reinforcements. Again, welding required. Look around at the design of different vendors' swaybar reinforcements. Not all of them are designed the same. I'd go so far as to say that if you plan on running after market sways, the reinforcements are a must.

How common are problems with this?
I'd consider swaybar mounting tab failure a very low occurrence, moderate risk issue in a car with OEM swaybars, and a high occurrence moderate risk issue in a car with an aftermarket rear swaybar.

"Problems weak points, and maintenance?! Isn't there anything good about the car?":

I've been trying to stick to the facts about the car, seeing as if you're here looking into one, you likely already know the positive aspects of it. Though, in light of some posts pointing out that most of this information showcases cons of owning the car, here's a little bit of info weighing some of the intangibles of it. This is just one person's account, though i'll try and keep it as objective as possible.

-The drive train is near bulletproof. The main powertrain components (engine, tranny, diff etc) are extremely robust and hold their own with the best in terms of reliability. Expect a well maintained car to go past 200K miles with pretty much no major issues with the motor, tranny, etc. Even in comparison to Hondas and Toyotas, the internals are more robust than what the Japanese usually have to offer. A BMW will be more finicky with respect to oil changes and quality of the oil you use due to things like hydraulic lifters. But the engines run strong for a long long time.

-The car is a handling monster without compromise in ride quality. With 50/50 weight distribution, a nice limited slip diff out back, fat tires, rear wheel drive, and VERY well thought-out suspension geometry, the car handles with the best of them. It's become a cliche thing to remind people of, but the US E36 M3 was dubbed the "Best handling car at any price" by Car and Driver, in a shootout that included the Acura NSX, Chevy Corvette, Dodge Viper, Ferrari F355, Porsche Boxster, Porsche 911 Carrera S, and the Toyota Supra Turbo. The suspension is set up from the factory to be extremely forgiving and the car is probably easier to drive at the limit than just about any RWD car out there. It also has handling limits that exceed most drivers out on the road. With a few well thought out suspension mods, the E36 chassis can be made to be unstoppable. Google some HPDE vids of E36's on the track and watch a 10 year old car hang around every corner with cars costing orders of magnitude more, with double the horsepower, and an extra 5 or 10 years of engineering behind them. The M3, even in stock form, is a car you can take to the race track, and take your girlfriend's Grandmother out for dinner in, in a single day..without a complaint from you about its handling prowess on the track, or a complaint from Grandma about a harsh ride.

-The car is DIY friendly and has HUGE aftermarket support. Yes, there are problems with the car. it will break, it will cost money to fix. But with the amount of after market resources out there, the amount of parts available, and the number of enthusiasts that are passionate about BMW's, the E36 M3 is an iconic automobile that comes with huge resources at your finger tips with little more than a computer and an internet connection. The car is well thought out and easy to work on. Things are fastened together in a logical fashion that's easy to understand, and you don't have to have midget hands to work on the car.

-It's extremely well balanced. ...And not just in the handling department. The car comes standard with dual zone climate control, an onboard computer, 6 disc CD changer, comfortable seats, one-touch power windows, has nice sized trunk, has comfortable seating for 4, gets good gas mileage, has a quiet and compliant ride...yet will commit un-holy acts between rubber and pavement when called upon, will reach triple digit speeds with ease, and dispatch that speed with brakes that will damn near pull your eyeballs out. Who isn't attracted to the idea of a great handling sports car with enough power to get you in trouble, enough comfort, economy and practicality to daily drive, and a price tag that any enthusiast can live with?

...And the list goes on. The M3 has understated, classy design that seems to defy age, rich heritage, performance that's still on par with todays sports cars, and is about as raw and pure as you can get a sports car to be without introducing compromise in livability. If you want to introduce that compromise and ramp up the performance, there is an army of aftermarket resources at your finger tips to do just that. It's a jack of all trades car that excels in many things, and is deficient at very few. For more pros, see this post:

Cons (I know...i'm really stretching to come up with some of these):
The steering rack. It drives like a truck. This is a sports car, not a pickup, it's nicely weighted and predictable...but i've driven trucks with quicker steering racks. Go watch an AutoX event one day. Watch the drivers of other sports cars as they pilot through the course smoothly and fluidly. Watch the E36 drivers frantically trying to wrestle the steering wheel around every corner, going hand over hand at corners where most cars just need minimal input to negotiate it. The good news is, the racks form other BMWs can be swapped in easily. The bad news is, they're other BMWs...they're not cheap.

The body roll. If there's one critique we'd have to make about the handling of a stock M3, it's the body roll. The springs are progressive, the sways allow for a lot of fore to aft travel. The car rides nice...but it dives into corners like a Caddy loaded with Sopranos. Again, some springs and thicker sways dial it out easily. But in stock form, it'll get you seasick. This is all relative, as you'll likely never experience this on public roads. But for those of us that AutoX or track the car, it's an annoyance.

It's German, it's quirky. The car doesn't have tilt steering. It beeps at you when the ambient temperatures reach the freezing point of water at German altitudes. It beeps at you if your washer fluid is low, if you have a brake light out, or if your brake pads are nearing their end. Yet, the car has no indicator to let you know you've just activated the cruise control system. It doesn't have any indicator to let you know there's a door ajar, or the trunk is open and flapping in the wind as you drive down the highway with your cargo flying out the back. It will give you little to no warning if it's overheating. The stock lights may as well be lanterns on a Ford Model A. It's grumpy in the cold, it will make weird noises you'll never figure out. You will constantly maintain it, clean it, and look it over in search of attaining perfection that just isn't possible with a 10 year old car.

It's predictably unpredictable. You've read about all the common problems, all the issues you should look out for. But you go out and buy one anyways. And it looks perfect, it drives perfect, you're in a state of sheer bliss with it day after day as the weeks pass by and the ownership experience is everything you could've hoped it would...DING DING DING, "Huh? Brake light circuit failure?" :facepalm: And that's far from the last thing you'll be literally standing on your head to replace. But somehow, you can't bear to get upset with the car for it. It comes with the territory and if anyone here didn't think the little annoyances and the maintenance were worth what you get in return from it, this website wouldn't even be here. Enough about cons. There are very few.

How does it do on gas?

The car requires premium fuel, and will normally do anywhere from low 20's to high 20's depending on driving style and situation. I consistently get 22-23 MPG combined highway/city with mostly spirited driving. I consistently get 27-28MPG highway with normal highway cruising. I've gotten as high as 30-31MPG highway, and as low as 17MPG city with a real heavy right foot.

What about tires?

As an FYI, the 1995 M3 was the only one released in NA that has a squared tire setup (all 4 are the same size). The 1996+ cars have a staggered setup with 225 width tires up front and 245's in the back. What does this mean? No tire rotation for the 96+ cars in stock form.

People normally get anywhere from 10K miles to 30K miles out of a set of tires. The car goes through them quick. Most people will go through a set of tires in 20K miles.

The above was borrowed from http:/// in the hopes that we can save ourselves from new people with dreams of N0S & Forced Induction, and of anything to do with the Fast & The Furious.

And for the record, this is the first I'd heard of that oil pump nut...

noexceptions325 04-11-2011 07:57 AM

excellent writeup and use of pics ed!

jonesin 04-11-2011 07:58 AM

Not mine, I just 'borrowed' it.

TRaV MaNN 04-11-2011 08:08 AM

If people would read that 99% of the "should I buy this" posts would be eliminated

328isMsport 04-11-2011 09:25 AM

Good find, would make a nice addition to the useful links sticky. I know it answered many of my questions already. Thanks.

KitsuKo 04-11-2011 09:40 AM

^ +1to the sticky. I learned a LOT reading that and actually I am going to save it on my comp :) Thank you.....

ZeGerman 04-11-2011 10:24 AM

I've heard about the oil pump nut. It pretty much only matters for track driven cars in the event of a spinout (if you don't have time to depress the clutch).

CDirks 04-11-2011 11:46 AM

We needed this. Thanks a bunch Ed!

Ryan... 04-11-2011 11:57 AM


Any time we see a "should I buy this thread" we should shoot this link into it and walk away.

ju_le_new 04-11-2011 01:17 PM

That was a good read thanks!

cj.surr 04-11-2011 01:28 PM

Nice post, should be very helpful.

BMRfanatic 04-11-2011 01:53 PM

Very informative. This answered my questions about RSMs.

FenderBender 04-11-2011 02:28 PM

The oil pump nut is not common at all. If you have your engine apart, wire tie it, or weld it, if not, don't worry about it.

drive by72 04-11-2011 06:01 PM

Bout time someone made one of these... I could have sworn I saw in another sticky the phrase "these are not straight line cars"... :rolleyes: ;)

Edit: Pelican has just about all the suspension parts you need in their suspension wizard. You can go through the steps and there are pictures of what everything is for first-timers. You can create a wishlist of stuff as well. Its awesome. And, for n00bs, pelican parts has phenomenal customer support and amazing prices. I buy from them all the time, and definitely would recommend them

kanovic 04-11-2011 06:55 PM

civic si are slow :eek:

crisscross 04-11-2011 08:23 PM is a great reference. The vanos rebuild diy is fantastic.

luketheduke 04-11-2011 09:16 PM

Great! that was a good education for my car

KitsuKo 04-12-2011 08:50 AM


Originally Posted by kanovic (Post 5989215)
civic si are slow :eek:

^ Yeah one dude found out the hard way going up the 405 in LA last week.

Moeman10 04-12-2011 01:48 PM

Good thread Ed. :thumbup:

Monologue still wins though :D

miles_trail 04-13-2011 10:12 AM


Originally Posted by drive by72 (Post 5989063)
Bout time someone made one of these... I could have sworn I saw in another sticky the phrase "these are not straight line cars"... :rolleyes: ;)

Edit: Pelican has just about all the suspension parts you need in their suspension wizard. You can go through the steps and there are pictures of what everything is for first-timers. You can create a wishlist of stuff as well. Its awesome. And, for n00bs, pelican parts has phenomenal customer support and amazing prices. I buy from them all the time, and definitely would recommend them

So, can I ignore the section on tools?, I already have a torque wrench, and I've replaced tie rods with just basic tools, and from what I've heard there is no reason to replace just a ball joint, so if I just get my coil overs pre
assembled and get urethane bushings that don't have to be pressed in, can I just install it all my self and then drive slowly and carefully to a shop to get an alignment?.

jonesin 04-13-2011 11:11 AM

Well, I managed to redo my full suspension without any 'special' tools. Mind you I got quite creative. At one point I was using a pry bar on one side and my old control arm on the other side to press in my RTAB's... (With a 10" lag bolt, a long nut and a couple washers.)

-By long nut I mean it was about 2" long so as to not strip the threads on the lag bolt by spreading the force over a much greater area.

noexceptions325 04-13-2011 12:28 PM

^ ingenious

jonesin 04-13-2011 12:49 PM

More cheap...

ZeGerman 04-13-2011 01:41 PM


Originally Posted by miles_trail (Post 5993183)
So, can I ignore the section on tools?, I already have a torque wrench, and I've replaced tie rods with just basic tools, and from what I've heard there is no reason to replace just a ball joint, so if I just get my coil overs pre
assembled and get urethane bushings that don't have to be pressed in, can I just install it all my self and then drive slowly and carefully to a shop to get an alignment?.

More or less. I replaced my entire suspension using "basic" tools. Tools that I found helpful were a breaker bar, pry bar, mini-sledge, large rubber mallet, the biggest flat-blade screwdriver I could find, and the appropriate sockets and wrenches. Also, a large c-clamp with large fender washers will help you push in the halves of the poly RTABs (even though people often claim they can be pressed in by hand, they can sometimes need a bit of assistance - as was the case when I installed my RE poly RTABs). You'll want a hacksaw or sawzall for removing your old RTABs.

miles_trail 04-13-2011 02:08 PM

Sweet as. I have a black smiths shop, so hammers are not an issue :D, also I can make a special pry bar for virtually any specialized task in an hour or two :bigpimp:.

Can't freakin wait till I have enough money to give my car a facelift/ mechanical refresh this summer.

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